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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotBlack
    Wow, prodigal son, way to avoid making any real points...


    Just sayin.

    But hey, enjoy your Al Gore fixation.

    My point was this; if you are going to talk the talk of an "environmentalist", you better be able to walk the walk. I admit I don't pass a strict test but then neither do you or Tunica. But he hypocritically talks like he can. Just sayin. And in keeping in the spirit of thread hijacking, why don't we all enjoy Al Gore...



    "Futurama" (1999)

    Van: Thank you all for coming. It is my pleasure to present the host of the Kyoto global warming conference. The inventor of the environment, and first emperor of the moon, Al Gore!

    Al Gore: My fellow Earthicans. As I discuss in my book, Earth in the Balance, and the more popular, Harry Potter and the Balance of the Earth, we need to protect ourselves against pollution, as well as dark wizards.

    Al Gore: I must go now, to help collect cans on Jupiter.

    Al Gore: Peace out, y'all.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #102
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    Sorry Prodigal. You do not walk the walk, nor talk the talk. You walk the walk of your own self-interest, and you talk the talk of a politics fan, taking your cues from politicians, who are almost always the least informed and last to know what they're talking about.

    The fact that you're quoting a satirical cartoon is especially revealing. There are valid arguments to make on your side. I've left them up to you to make, and you haven't even touched on any of them.

    Perhaps we could all just do each other a favor and get back to what the thread was about in the first place?

  3. #103
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    this thread is hilarious

    now im going to go check ebay for small campers i can tow...i like that idea...

  4. #104
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    Note, this is not a personal attack on anyone, just observations.

    Prodigal Son, ironically, the way you chose to attack tunicatrails by definition applies to you as well. You say that he lives his life according to the standards he sees as best, and makes his actions fit accordingly. Then you say well, that gives you no right to impose your will on others.

    You live your life the same way. I do too. I am writing this because it seems like the best action for me to do at the time. So I do it. It would not be rational to live any other way. So now there is just all these different reference points coming in about what is right, what is wasteful, and what is not. You say he is not objective, and can't tell others what to do. I say you suffer from the exact same situation. Again, ironically, this post does too.

    This kind of represents my issue with much of the environmental movement. While I sympathize with many views, I can't really ally myself with them. The problem is end-based reasoning. Using end-based reasoning, anything is justifiable, or not justifiable. If we look at the earth and say, this is where we need to be, and doing actions that get us there are right, we will be in deep doodoo. Outlandish things can be justified, because the end goal makes them alright. The same goes for criticism too. Anything can be made to be bad, and not conducive towards the final goal. Personally, the way I think it should work is our actions and the things we live by should result in a world that is happy/sustainable/whatever, rather than the idea of that world dictating our current actions. For example, we could say that we want to be energy independent or something in ten years. That would be "good." Now, a way to do that would be to cull our population to a size that can live off the resources in our own area. That would result in a goal that is good, right? Action justified.
    I say no. What we live by should not determined by where we want to go, but where we go should be determined by how we live now.

    I guess what I'm saying is, your accusation of tunicatrails operates on faulty logic. You say people aren't held to his standards, because his voice is not objective. News flash, yours isn't either, and neither is mine.
    i smell a rat-Patrick Henry

  5. #105
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    What bothers me most about large rv's (besides the high cost of driving/maintaining one) , is the absence of simplification. Who needs all that crap when you're camping/biking/hiking in the woods/mountains/desert? To me it's all about keeping things simple - if you need to take all that stuff w/ you, you might as well stay at home. It seems to go against the whole idea of biking as a means of transport, but I guess if you're rich and can afford to drive a vehicle that get 7 or 8 mpg, then more power to you. All that said, we roll in an '85 Westy that gets 'round 20 mpg - so who am I to judge?

  6. #106
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    I'm going to use one gallon of gasoline driving around aimlessly today just because I can.


  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckylarue
    All that said, we roll in an '85 Westy that gets 'round 20 mpg - so who am I to judge?
    Woot.

    van.jpg

    You don't have to take it ALL with you. But having some of IT along is pretty nice.

    And it beats sleeping on the dirt.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotBlack
    Sorry Prodigal. You do not walk the walk, nor talk the talk. You walk the walk of your own self-interest, and you talk the talk of a politics fan, taking your cues from politicians, who are almost always the least informed and last to know what they're talking about.

    The fact that you're quoting a satirical cartoon is especially revealing. There are valid arguments to make on your side. I've left them up to you to make, and you haven't even touched on any of them.

    Perhaps we could all just do each other a favor and get back to what the thread was about in the first place?
    Shouldn't you be 'living off the grid' somewhere?


  9. #109
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    well the reason for the big rv for me is that we have ALOT of toys. 11 dirtbikes/quads, golfcart, utv, sandrail etc. we dont use it for the animals or the environment we use it for the comfort of home when were away for well over 1/2 the year racing nationally. my mountain bike hasnt even SEEN the inside of the trailer. only the back of my truck. to me our trailer isnt even big enough most races... maybe ill have to get two just to make up for the hippies here... OH our tow trucks get around 14mpg towing them. have a great day, and go hug a tree for me.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    Shouldn't you be 'living off the grid' somewhere?

    Erm, no. The grid pays me (admittedly a pittance) each month. As long as you guys keep consuming more than you generate, and operate your lives at a loss, I profit a tiny amount at your expense. Goes toward buying more materials for eventual replacement of the equipment.

    I do own an island and the residence there is obviously off the grid, but I don't live there full time as of yet.

    Anything else, Mr? Are our fragile little egos & guilty consciences sufficiently fortified to get back to the case for RVs, even if it is just pictures? I'm still interested and open to being convinced.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotBlack
    Sorry Prodigal. You do not walk the walk, nor talk the talk. You walk the walk of your own self-interest, and you talk the talk of a politics fan, taking your cues from politicians, who are almost always the least informed and last to know what they're talking about.
    Glad to see you agree that Al Gore (a politician) doesn't know what he's talking about.

  12. #112
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    Thread was good.

    Then it got to the arguing and I went from happy to a little bit sad.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by c-record
    Then it got to the arguing and I went from happy to a little bit sad.
    There's this awesome feature built into MTBR - it's called the Ignore List.

    You click on someone's username, view their profile - then hit Add XXX to your Ignore List.

    Then you never have to see another word posted by them... unless someone quotes them later in the thread.

    I highly recommend it. I wish more media had this functionality.

  14. #114
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    back to the topic at hand...

    not an RV... but I realy dig the idea of a trailer... pop ups for the fuel economy... but is what I realy want to build is a teardrop trailer... it's a small step up from a tent... and can be pulled by just about anything depending on how you build it (and I would build it myself none of this buying it from someone else bit
    can build them with a mini bunk bed in them if you plan on it... just enough to be not sleeping in a tent...
    - Surly Disc trucker
    - '82 trek 560 roadie

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotBlack
    Sorry Prodigal. You walk the walk of your own self-interest...

    Perhaps we could all just do each other a favor and get back to what the thread was about in the first place?
    Here is what I believe to be true about internet forums; they are like vampires. They suck the life out of you. There is an entire generation growing up with the internet, cell phones, text messaging, twitter, facebook, my space. I use to think nintendo was what would cause the collapse of society. I wasn't even close. These yougsters can spend hours typing messages into their cell phones. They can get into fights at school over something posted on facebook. They can have relationships with strangers they no nothing about. They can pretend to be someone they are not.

    Glance down the classic forums until you get to the one titled Political-Socio-Economic-Religion. Over 382,000 posts and yet it was closed down quite a while ago. The F88ers were addicts for debate, or something like a debate only involving as many insults as possible. They still are addicts. They have a new site where they actually passed the hat to cover expenses in the several thousands of dollars to run it. So they are paying out of pocket to insult each other. I mention this because internet forums have created a type of person who thrives on spending all sorts of time pouring through threads looking for a chance to show off their erudition. And the beauty is they can remain anonymous. They can embellish evey story they tell. Your Missy Giove posts stood out as an example. You want to make a case for how wonderful pot smoking is and how brilliant people can use it daily with no ill effect, so you tell stories about your girlfriend smoking pot and people at parties who are highly successful and smoke pot. I guess we'll have to take you on your word, even though my experience is the opposite. Pot smokers I have known function at about 50% of their potential. I don't disagree that there are some who function at 80%. To them, that is good enough to get by on. Hopefully they are not airline pilots. But my argument will always be that nobody functions at 100% when stoned, and they are missing out by anesthetizing themselves.

    What I want to point out, moreso than try to debate the validity of owning an RV, which I do, is that those people who use to be on MTBR forums (political-socio-economic-religion), got tossed out of here by Francis and Gregg. They were an embarrassment. They were cruel for the sake of being cruel. They kept saying they were actually nice people in real life but enjoyed getting away with saying whatever they wanted on these forums because they could. They were among the most intelligent people on all of MTBR, but it became more important to them to violate the rules and to win an argument at all cost, then to stay apart of the MTBR forums. Some of them had posted over 10,000 times. One guy had over 20,000 posts. He is now well over 30,000 posts. This vampire can suck people in, to the point where they are skipping rides so they can post messages telling others how to live their lives, even if they know nobody will ever change their behavior because of anything they say. You, for example, have no interest in RV's. You are not here to be convinced of their usefulness. You are here to provide backup to Tunica and to echo his thoughts and observations. When you jumped into the Giove thread, you wanted to make sure you let everyone know that if they were anti-pot smoking, they were ignorant, feared the unknown, and had much faith in authoritarianism. In doing so, you wanted them all to know you were much more enlightened by your life experiences, or the experiences you claimed to have had. Not you particularly, but people exactly like you are becoming commonplace on internet forums. People needing to be validated and willing to use precious time to share their political views.

    We all have prioroties. I really need to be outside on my bike 2-3 days a week and to be out running on trails 2-3 days a week. After that is accomplished, I can kick back and watch history channel or play chess or read rv forums or read mtbr forums. I can't justify skipping workouts to debate with strangers who have opinions or habits I don't agree with or respect. Those are my last words on the topic in this thread.

  16. #116
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    I was once tempted by the thought of a sleek space-age, self-contained, handmade, polished aluminum airstream, which would presumably require one less massively wasteful building to be erected upon the land, less defacement of said land, less overall pollution, is even primarily recyclable, enjoy a much greater life-cycle, a more minimalist experience (for whom less is more), and finally realize the untethered, noncommittal, nonconformist, nomadic wandering nature of my ancestors, which is so deeply engrained in my own instinct. The notion of having ones own roaming space station is hugely appealing. The challenge would be to see how possible it would be to do fuel-efficiently, as I'll admit I'm no fan of calling middle-east despots our masters.

    My recent experience in an RV park was clearly not what I had in mind.

    I'd be very interested to see an example of truly independent RV living.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Here is what I believe to be true about internet forums;
    Wow that's a lot of words, and by the looks of it, not about RV's. Get a friend, Prodigy. You'll like em. They're fun.
    Last edited by HotBlack; 07-23-2009 at 05:13 PM.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotBlack

    Get a friend, Prodigy. You'll like em. They're fun.
    I'm sure you have lots of fun with the ones on the ends of your arms.

  18. #118
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    to keeping this thread alive???

    Thought I'd put all the rv's I've had sence the first one I posted:

    Had this one for about a year:


    Have this one now:

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    http://www.greenlearning.ca/climate/...ns/lifestyle/4

    OK, everyone in this thread, have a seat in your captain's chair while I share something with you:

    Taking an entire friggin' house with you on the road when you travel is neither the best way to get close to nature, nor the best way to show respect for it. It's just plain wasteful. Not to mention, it's nowhere near as nice or affordable as a resort hotel or a bed and breakfast. Why, why, why?... It's just an illusion of independance. To everyone not travelling in your RV, you look like a family hooked on life support.
    Go f yourself

  20. #120
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    How was the Westfalia on maintenance?

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Even your thread is wasteful, big old pictures of your King Crew Cab Extended Custom Superline Roadmaster pieces of crap. Name me one other country where RVs sell in a profitable volume other than the United States.

    And yeehaw for that. Because it's God's green earth, given to us by Him to F*ck up.
    Dude, I was watchin the "tour" and thoes frenchies had them parked along side the trail on every climb. Looked like nice rigs too!

  22. #122
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    I raise bunnies to wipe my butt with and I am vegetarian, that makes me super earth friendly!!!! If you use TP you are a bad person!

  23. #123
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    weird, I'm reading this thread in my inlaws' van where tomorrow, me and my wife are off for a great bike trip to Whitefish and Sun Valley before we head slowly west to visit my parents in Ontario, Canada. First experience with an RV and am pretty excited.

    It's a 94 Eurovan CV from Canada...I think the last year they sold them up here.


  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by donalson
    back to the topic at hand...

    not an RV... but I realy dig the idea of a trailer... pop ups for the fuel economy... but is what I realy want to build is a teardrop trailer... it's a small step up from a tent... and can be pulled by just about anything depending on how you build it (and I would build it myself none of this buying it from someone else bit
    can build them with a mini bunk bed in them if you plan on it... just enough to be not sleeping in a tent...

    i'm with you on that, i really want to build one of those.

  25. #125
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    haha, this is the second thread I've read on here today where someone tries to share in the joy they are having and it turns ugly. The other thread was taking dogs on trails, which turned into others needing to voice their disgust and the argument took shape. I'm on several forums for motorcycles, jeeps, etc. and have never seen this kind of hostility. I'd be afraid to post any kind of opinion on here.
    Oh, and I like the RV that started this thread. Those little things look like the ticket!!!

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Even your thread is wasteful, big old pictures of your King Crew Cab Extended Custom Superline Roadmaster pieces of crap. Name me one other country where RVs sell in a profitable volume other than the United States.

    And yeehaw for that. Because it's God's green earth, given to us by Him to F*ck up.
    Way to go with totally derailing a good thread. You are your company's single worst marketing tool. Why don't you keep quite?
    I thought of that while riding my bicycle. ~ Albert Einstein on the theory of relativity

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Name me one other country where RVs sell in a profitable volume other than the United States.

    ireland, the uk, germany, new zealand, australia, south africa....

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    None of that frees you from your own personal responsibility for 8 miles to the gallon and a huge hunk of sheet metal. I didn't send you where you were, or make you drive all over creation with an apartment in your truck.

    I like the South but that's just me, I like the lush subtropics, full of life. Criticizing where I live doesn't have anything to do with the subject at hand, though does it, just another avoidance tactic?

    Rather than continually pursuing more money, putting off a real life, why not choose to do what you really want to do, within a budget, near to your family? Doesn't sound like "pimpin your life" to me, it sounds like you're compromising yourself. Which comes back to my central point: RV owners don't do it better, they just rumble around on life support, literally taking the kitchen sink with them, rather than taking a chance and having a real adventure.

    In the meantime, we all have to suffer under every day a greater strain of CO2 emissions while a grand illusion, "freedom of the road" becomes more and more clogged with traffic and smog. Only Americans think this way en masse, and you're embarrassing me.
    Nice rant douche. You should post a few more variations of this. I am sure you are going to change a lot of minds.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
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  29. #129
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    Thanks for your comments, HotBlack. My goal on this thread was absolutely to provide some kind of retort to post after post of people unabashedly proud of what they're doing with their RVs, something I see as terrible to a tragicomic degree. The vitriolic attacks I'm getting, with folks like Prodigal Son doing their best to research my personal life, but most others just lazily saying "go f yourself," are still both just attempts to distract from the issue at hand, which is RV usage and how incredibly wasteful it is.

    I do use less resources than most of you all. There is an empirical measure of this. I could do better, but guess what, I don't have to be the Ghandi of environmentalism in order to hold my views, and neither do you all! All I'm asking is for others not to be so grossly, thoughtlessly wasteful.

    RV owners I gather could do much, much, much, much, much better.
    http://atlas.aaas.org/index.php?part=2

    Thankfully RV sales are in sharp decline, and like second hand smoke, I believe it's an issue that should continue to be chased "out of the building" like the once all-powerful tobacco lobby:
    http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008...l-grade-ahead/
    http://www.rvbusiness.com/2009/06/st...bles-down-395/

    You can be certain (absolutely) that I would be living off the grid if I could afford it. Last year I talked with three contractors about it. Again, like I've said, many green strategies have their own rewards; in the long run it would save me money. I've researched hydroelectric and solar dishes too; I have a plan, I'm not going to throw up my hands because these problems seem too complex and demanding right now.

    Hey, look at Jay Leno, a man who loves his classic automobiles. He has an ancient electric car, and a new Tesla roadster. He understands the entire history of motor vehicles. His massive garage is also completely off the grid, he even sells back power to the electric company. All I have to say is, wow. If all people, of means or poor, indulged their fantasies in the intelligent, considered fashion that Mr. Leno does, we wouldn't have a problem.




    Quote Originally Posted by HotBlack
    I like that for once, I'm not the most fired up passionite in the thread. It's like watching a solo break near the finish of a mountain stage. Will he be able to keep it up, or be reclaimed by the chase? Get spit out the back and swarmed by the peloton? Still off the front, no signs of relenting... Nice work, Tunica. And I do find myself agreeing with your priciples. After my limited experience, it really looked like stereotypical self-serving American consumerist excess run amok. But my experience is limited.

    Self-serving justifications of entitlement I won't even touch on, as no good ever comes of that conversation, but I like to think there are some redeeming qualities to RVing, even if we haven't come across them yet.

    I understand that as campers, it is hard not to look down upon people who seem so dependent on modern convenience and their manmade environment that even when they set out to leave home, they still have to buy and drag another ton of it in portable form with them just to survive a weekend away. This makes the camper wonder why the RVer bothered leaving home at all, if they were just going to take home with them. This seems to be the root of the Camping/RVing rift. For instance, a camper might look at Bigfoots first picture in this thread and say, well, that little egg thing is cute, but it's not much bigger than a lot of tents. Why not just use a tent and save yourself the gas, maintenance, & time? Plus, you can put a tent anywhere you want, & it uses a lot less resources over its lifespan.

    I've struggled to find a counter-viewpoint for the RV'ers side, but that is probably because I'm not one. Some possible candidates are:

    1. Selling house to live as a wandering nomad, closer to nature but not at its mercy.
    2. You may not have the faculties to survive living a full-on wilderness lifestyle, but want to come as close as your physical abilities will let you.
    3. You're completely freaked out by nature, but you want your kids to grow up well-adjusted and balanced, and it's a compromise. A generation of kids half-way exposed to nature is better than a generation of kids who've never been exposed to the natural world at all. When city kids grow and become powerful, we get environmental policies that favor concrete and steel.
    4. The faster we use up petroleum reserves, the sooner we'll have to get on to alternative fuels. Since society won't change until its forced to, they're really doing us all a favor. ...even if it pollutes like crazy and does its part to keep us ensnared in deadly middle-east politics. If it doesn't kill us first, we'll be better off eventually. Ok, I'm reaching here.

    But I'm trying anyway.
    Last edited by TunicaTrails; 07-27-2009 at 08:43 AM.

  30. #130
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    if you need a $60,000 - 100,000 solar system to satisfy your daily(+reserve) electrical consumption, then you probably aren't using less resources than most of us. there're a hell of alot of people living off the grid with a significantly smaller TOTAL initial investment than that.

  31. #131
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    I doubt that. In 2007, the average monthly residential electricity consumption was 936 kilowatthours (kWh).
    http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ask/electricity_faqs.asp

    I couldn't fathom using that much electricity and we have all-electric utilities in anticipation of going off-grid. Nonetheless I wasn't taken aback by the price either, plus solar systems are modular. I'm into a small Chinese system for $300 already that charges a few batteries.


    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    if you need a $60,000 - 100,000 solar system to satisfy your daily(+reserve) electrical consumption, then you probably aren't using less resources than most of us. there're a hell of alot of people living off the grid with a significantly smaller TOTAL initial investment than that.

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    I doubt that as well, especially since the USA is the prime manufacturer of RVs. Please cite your source. Here's one I've been reading:

    http://www.rv-n-motorhomes.com/RV-Facts-Statistics.html


    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    ireland, the uk, germany, new zealand, australia, south africa....

  33. #133
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    looks like those numbers are drastically skewed by the (entire excluding cali) south, where i'm guessing a significant number of people use and often need air conditioning throughout the summer. i know you live there as well.


    i'm surprised maine is lower than california.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    I doubt that as well, especially since the USA is the prime manufacturer of RVs. Please cite your source. Here's one I've been reading:

    http://www.rv-n-motorhomes.com/RV-Facts-Statistics.html

    personal travel through some of those countries. there are companies in all of them that sell rv's/campers, and have been in business for a long time. ie: profitable.

  35. #135
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    http://www.motorhomesworldwide.com/m...me/index.shtml

    have a look. plenty of profitable motorhome companies all over the world. your link appears to have nearly all american-centric info.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Hey, look at Jay Leno, a man who loves his classic automobiles. He has an ancient electric car, and a new Tesla roadster. He understands the entire history of motor vehicles. His massive garage is also completely off the grid, he even sells back power to the electric company. All I have to say is, wow. If all people, of means or poor, indulged their fantasies in the intelligent, considered fashion that Mr. Leno does, we wouldn't have a problem.
    Yes, and we all know how few resources the Tonight Show utilizes.

    You continue to elevate yourself above others, including some of us who have worked on environmental issues as a profession for some time now. I've lost a lot of hide arguing with some pretty large environmental polluters and their attorneys over the years holding their feet to the fire, to resolve issues that affect a lot of people. It's easy to get burned out. And them some young twit like you comes along and holds his nose in the air in disdain over my little pop-up camper that I take out a handful of times a year and bumps my fuel efficiency down 5mpg. Pathetic. I bet those bikers coming to the races shown on your website are pedaling to get there, right? I bet none of them stay in RVs either.

    The point is, you are as guilty as many on this thread. Yet you place yourself on a higher plateau for some reason. Luxury hotels that you pontificate about are a joke as far as the resources utilized. "Keep that A/C going honey, so the room will be cool when we return from our fancy dinner we didn't prepare ourselves. Oh, that imported crab and bottled water was spectacular." Here's a good one: https://www.hcn.org/issues/145/4691

    Working on, and caring about, environmental resources is a good thing. But when you begin to denigrate others who have spent many, many hours fighting for environmental issues, you are crapping in your own yard. We are all guilty in one way or another and could do better. You, however, are shotgunning everyone on this forum, while you are just as guilty as some of those in your sights. Way to go.

  37. #137
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    The teardrop trailer idea is interested me before. I don't mind sleeping in a tent. What I do mind is all of the packing and unpacking that comes with tent camping. With an RV or even a teardrop you can keep the packing to a minimum. I would like to have some kind of small/simple RV for riding and attending antique equipment shows.
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    Well, now at least we are getting into specifics about someone besides me. Maybe you should take a step back and see that I have no argument with you now that you've taken the time to explain yourself a little better. I'm not as inclined to cyber-stalk

    I will admit, if it wasn't clear, that there's a big difference between a pop-up camper and a $300,000 motorhome. Take note that my analogies were made in reference to the larger models, which are exhorbitantly expensive and wasteful, and so I made the comparison with luxury hotels. Me, I'm just fine with Motel 6. You need to understand that I'm not attacking affluence in this thread, I'm attacking relative wastefulness.

    Me, I slept in a tent on the ground at a National Park this weekend, rode hard before and after. The hatchback took everything I needed and more to feel comfortable.

    As for the trails I work on, they are intended to be a much-closer solution for Louisiana residents to have hilly mountain biking trails. Better a 45 minute drive than 2-5 hours, no? I'm not aware of anyone camping in RVs, just tents and motels at the races I've been to.

    I'm not that young anymore. I don't mind hearing ideas or criticisms on how I could be doing better. If you're interrogating me on why I don't have a house made this or that way, well that's at least a catalyst to advance ideas to a group of people largely not having considered them, so that's fine.

    In the area of the country I live it is very hot, no doubt. This summer we use one of our two A/C units 75% of the day to maintain a 77-81 degree temperature throughout the house with ample ceiling fans and blown-in insulation, which is highly superior to rolls.

    We used zero utilities for heating our home last year. A wood burning stove can be a very efficient way of heating. My new neighbor's is being installed with a catalytic converter. I tend to run the small Yotul stove at high flow whenever possible. This visibly reduces the smoke from the flue, essentially just releasing hot air and doing the job of a catlyst. More importantly, I have a 3-years supply of oak firewood from all the fallen trees after Hurricane Gustav in 2008. I hated to see them gone, but there's no use in them going to waste, so I was quite busy last Fall splitting wood.

    Do away with the perjorative hot button words and share more about what your work. Here's a bemusing problem a little closer to my home (the "diabolical" nutria were brought here by men):
    http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/51709307.html


    Quote Originally Posted by BumpityBump
    Yes, and we all know how few resources the Tonight Show utilizes.

    You continue to elevate yourself above others, including some of us who have worked on environmental issues as a profession for some time now. I've lost a lot of hide arguing with some pretty large environmental polluters and their attorneys over the years holding their feet to the fire, to resolve issues that affect a lot of people. It's easy to get burned out. And them some young twit like you comes along and holds his nose in the air in disdain over my little pop-up camper that I take out a handful of times a year and bumps my fuel efficiency down 5mpg. Pathetic. I bet those bikers coming to the races shown on your website are pedaling to get there, right? I bet none of them stay in RVs either.

    The point is, you are as guilty as many on this thread. Yet you place yourself on a higher plateau for some reason. Luxury hotels that you pontificate about are a joke as far as the resources utilized. "Keep that A/C going honey, so the room will be cool when we return from our fancy dinner we didn't prepare ourselves. Oh, that imported crab and bottled water was spectacular." Here's a good one: https://www.hcn.org/issues/145/4691

    Working on, and caring about, environmental resources is a good thing. But when you begin to denigrate others who have spent many, many hours fighting for environmental issues, you are crapping in your own yard. We are all guilty in one way or another and could do better. You, however, are shotgunning everyone on this forum, while you are just as guilty as some of those in your sights. Way to go.
    Last edited by TunicaTrails; 07-27-2009 at 10:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by porkchop
    The teardrop trailer idea is interested me before. I don't mind sleeping in a tent. What I do mind is all of the packing and unpacking that comes with tent camping. With an RV or even a teardrop you can keep the packing to a minimum. I would like to have some kind of small/simple RV for riding and attending antique equipment shows.
    ya thats the big thing for the teardrop... no setup and tear down for sleeping... also have seen people who've integrated a small a/c system into it that could be removed for cooler months (nice thought when you live in FL) also they are much better insulated then a tent which is nice for the winter... would be a sweet way to travel cross country... stop off at a rest area and hop in the back for a nap (wouldn't even consider that with a tent haha)... pop open the galley to prep lunch and get back on your way... it's easy to see why they where HUGELY popular back in the early 20th century...
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  40. #140
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    tunica, based on this site: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricit....html#kilowatt
    your ac units that you run 75% of the day in summer burn up to about 540 kWh per month, on their own. i'm having trouble believing that you use significantly less than the national average once you factor in your ample cieling fans and other appliances....

    it's certainly justifiable to use ac in your neck of the woods, but your state and the surrounding states(tn, al, ky) have an energy consumption drastically higher than the rest of the country, based on the chart you provided a link to. maybe berating the mtb/rv community isn't the first place you should be directing your rants. maybe you would be better off trying to make changes closer to home.

  41. #141
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    I'm not seeing any numbers so far to justify an assertion that their are more RVs in other countries than the USA (sold, average, per captia, what have you). This is not necessarily an important point to debate, other than the fact it underscores a conspicuous consumption lifestyle primed by my country.

    That I use a fraction of the average, be that average in fact skewed by warmer states as you assert, wouldn't it stand to underscore, rather than detract from, my assertion that I use fewer resources? Because according to my electric bill, I used 590kwh last month, in one of the hottest months of the year. My wife got on me about it, too, we used less last year. Month before that was 490.

    Also, I'd imagine that our Winter heating bills are a lot lower than cooler states, so I'd question the average skew that you assert.

    As I've said before, this is not about me, not because I'm superior, but because I'm disqualified, I don't have an RV or any other large, lumbering vehicle that I'd ironically tie to my sense of freedom, pun intended. As usual, we're trying to meander from the beaten path of RV largesse, aren't we?



    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    looks like those numbers are drastically skewed by the (entire excluding cali) south, where i'm guessing a significant number of people use and often need air conditioning throughout the summer. i know you live there as well.


    i'm surprised maine is lower than california.

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    See my immediately previous post relevant to this above. Let's hear more about you, I'm tiring of questions from the unaccountable.

    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    tunica, based on this site: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricit....html#kilowatt
    your ac units that you run 75% of the day in summer burn up to about 540 kWh per month, on their own. i'm having trouble believing that you use significantly less than the national average once you factor in your ample cieling fans and other appliances....

    it's certainly justifiable to use ac in your neck of the woods, but your state and the surrounding states(tn, al, ky) have an energy consumption drastically higher than the rest of the country, based on the chart you provided a link to. maybe berating the mtb/rv community isn't the first place you should be directing your rants. maybe you would be better off trying to make changes closer to home.

  43. #143
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    i never said that other countries have more RV's than us. that would be absurd. we have more wealth and a higher population.

    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Even your thread is wasteful, big old pictures of your King Crew Cab Extended Custom Superline Roadmaster pieces of crap. Name me one other country where RVs sell in a profitable volume other than the United States.

    And yeehaw for that. Because it's God's green earth, given to us by Him to F*ck up.
    about my energy consumption:

    i rent while i'm saving up for a cabin which will most likely be off the grid. i wont need ac, i wont need lights in the summer, i consume very few foods that require refrigeration, heating a cabin up here can easilly be accomplished with a wood burning stove. the house i'm in currently uses natural gas. i drive a beat up old pickup with 203,000 miles on it, which only get's about 20 mpg, but isn't consuming the amount of resources that producing a new car would. there are ton's of bike paths here and i use them for the majority of my errands withing twenty miles. i have no idea what my energy consumption is. i'm assuming it's fairly low though. my computer is a laptop, and i use an mp3 player instead of a stereo.

    i don't own an rv, but would like to build my own teardrop trailer at some point.

  44. #144
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    There is no free lunch. Do what you can for the environment, we all should be good stewards of the earth. However be careful to preach that your view is the only one, especially about subjects such as the environmental friendliness of the route you have chosen. Subjects like this are incredibly multifaceted and often the real world implementation of different systems have impacts that are not understood until after they are in place. In the Southeast we use predominately hydroelectric power. Relatively clean stuff. Many would argue much cleaner than coal or nuclear, but there are hundreds of other aspects on hydro electric alone that impact the environment. The ecosystyems were changed by the formation of the lakes. People built vacation homes on the lakes (as planned). They travel a few hours to go to these homes on the weekends. They drive boats and jet skis there. Golf courses are built near these lakes. Etc, etc etc. Often the big picture is far more complex than the small one. The chinese solar panels that Tunica bought to reduce his local energy consumption, came at what cost to the environment where they were manufactured and what resources were consumed to ship them to him? All that aside, another neat small camper is the TAB http://www.tab-rv.com/. Saw one a few years ago at beach. Kind of a modern teardrop.

  45. #145
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    The answer to the pollution cost of solar cell production in China or anywhere: very little
    http://www.chem.uu.nl/nws/www/research/e&e/e&e_rena.htm
    Its cost could be exacerbated of course if the cells are not durable. So far, so good, and we're not talking about a massive amount of material regardless.

    RV's or other vehicles on the other hand should be used as long as possible I agree, even if they're less energy efficient than a new car. Housing, I don't know. My mother lives in a 1930s-era house with poor insulation. Very little new material has been expended to keep the house standing but it certainly leaks energy vs new energy-efficient construction.

    I prefer grid-tied solar systems. I use my small starter solar system just to power battery chargers for AA rechargable batteries and so on. The ideal with a large grid-tied system would be to generate more electricity than you use overall and sell it back to the power company during the day, not for the small change it'd earn of course, but being your own zero-emissions power company. Show me an RV covered with solar panels and I'll be duly impressed.

    I would counter that it's easier to question the source of criticism than it is to more accurately judge what we all know is going on. When we dissolve into relativism, there's a danger of shrugging the whole sustainability thing off with "it's quite too complicated." I'm not going to do that. Kudos to guys like sean salach who also have details of a plan to improve their own environmental impact (and quality of life). That's how you get it done.




    Quote Originally Posted by chiplikestoridehisbike
    There is no free lunch. Do what you can for the environment, we all should be good stewards of the earth. However be careful to preach that your view is the only one, especially about subjects such as the environmental friendliness of the route you have chosen. Subjects like this are incredibly multifaceted and often the real world implementation of different systems have impacts that are not understood until after they are in place. In the Southeast we use predominately hydroelectric power. Relatively clean stuff. Many would argue much cleaner than coal or nuclear, but there are hundreds of other aspects on hydro electric alone that impact the environment. The ecosystyems were changed by the formation of the lakes. People built vacation homes on the lakes (as planned). They travel a few hours to go to these homes on the weekends. They drive boats and jet skis there. Golf courses are built near these lakes. Etc, etc etc. Often the big picture is far more complex than the small one. The chinese solar panels that Tunica bought to reduce his local energy consumption, came at what cost to the environment where they were manufactured and what resources were consumed to ship them to him? All that aside, another neat small camper is the TAB http://www.tab-rv.com/. Saw one a few years ago at beach. Kind of a modern teardrop.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    .....
    Also, I'd imagine that our Winter heating bills are a lot lower than cooler states, so I'd question the average skew that you assert.
    .......

    because beating dead horses is much more humane than beating live ones:

    this chart has a pretty good view of overall carbon footprint, not just public utility electricity consumption. northern states still seem to consume significantly less wasteful energy, overall and per capita, than southern ones. says nothing bad about peoples choices, just means cool to cold climates are easier to live in than hot/humid ones.

    http://www.eredux.com/states/


  47. #147
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    err, maybe that's backwards. that chart isn't very clear on what the data means...


    edit: here we go, this is the chart we want.

    http://www.eredux.com/states/index.p...995u3b9v8lhqg4

  48. #148
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    yee-haw!


    Honestly... ahh I give up

  49. #149
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    That picture is bursting with a very big faux pas

    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    yee-haw!







    Bar ends on a riser bar!?!? Oh my......

  50. #150
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    Here is our 30ft Springdale and I really don't give a crap if anyone on this forum doesn't like the fact that I own it! We have had a lot of fun camping in this and I wouldn't trade those memories with my family for anything.

    The porch:


    The living room:


    My little riding buddy getting ready to shred some singletrack:


    Towing with a 2008 Toyota Tundra 4x4 TRD limited:

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuff Gong
    Bar ends on a riser bar!?!?...
    you know it
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    I will admit, if it wasn't clear, that there's a big difference between a pop-up camper and a $300,000 motorhome.
    There is a big difference to the most of the RVs that have been posted up here and your base assumption. There are a bunch of Westfalias, Tent trailers, Tear Drops and Hybrids a handful largers trails and only a couple Motorhomes. Did you factor all of this into your calculations? What is the gas milage of a westfalia in comparison to a typical SUV that you sell all over the place?

    It doesn't take take too many trips with a trailer or motorhome to figure out when its costing you too much in gas and would have been better off getting a hotel. I've got a 21' with a rear slide bed. We try and keep our weekend trips close to home and only drive 3 hours if its for a 4-5 day weekend at least.

    If we are going to drive further than that then we'll pull the ski boat instead. In comparison that make the trailer seem like a dream on gas but heh I work for an oil company and we all gotta do our part right

    But seriously, how do annual rv rental site factor into the RV use question? You know I drag it out in May and pick it up in September. Then drive my Jetta TDI and get 60 mpg for the rest of the summer...

    How do these factor into the whole RV carbon footpring?

  53. #153
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    Ahem, yes, people like Highdell, Msimmons, are the ones I'm referring to. I'm not exactly sure what the heck AscentCanada is talking about, but as I understand it, he's probably one of them too. There's plenty of fools like this around, many more than there are concerned, high-functioning citizens. I'm a little sickened now.

    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    yee-haw!

    Sean Salach, I've sorted your link up and down:
    http://www.eredux.com/states/index.p...=DESC&rows=228

    I'm not seeing much of any relationship to climate and carbon footprint in the USA. It doesn't matter much in my view. For one thing I freely admit that people around me are wasteful and uncaring ("yee-haw"), but so are reserved Vermonters. Secondly, and most tragically, we're all getting a little warmer because of what we're all doing with coal-burning power plants and auto exhaust, no matter where we live.

    I see rankings in carbon footprint (#1 being worst)
    1. Texas
    2. California
    3. Pennsylvania
    4. Ohio
    5. Florida
    6. Indiana
    7. Illinois
    8. New York
    9. Michigan
    10. Louisiana

    I see per captia carbon output (#1 being worst):
    1. Vermont
    2. Rhode Island
    3. New York
    4. Idaho
    5. California
    6. Oregon
    7. Connecticut
    8. Washington
    9. Massachusetts
    10. New Jersey

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Ahem, yes, people like Highdell, Msimmons, are the ones I'm referring to. I'm not exactly sure what the heck AscentCanada is talking about, but as I understand it, he's probably one of them too. There's plenty of fools like this around, many more than there are concerned, high-functioning citizens. I'm a little sickened now.
    huh?
    what about me?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    I'm not exactly sure what the heck AscentCanada is talking about, but as I understand it, he's probably one of them too.
    I'm one of what? This is typical flame baiting when someone comes into a forum discussion to stir up an argument without any real substance behind their argument. So just what are you trying to accomplish by contributing to this thread?

    My point is that most people that have posted up here have small trailers or Westfalia vans. So how do these compare to the $300,000 motorhomes that you are basing your argument on? They don't.

    I quick search on google brings back the gas mileage of a westfalia, What do you drive that make your footprint so small and a Westfalia so wasteful?

    If I pull my trailer twice a season once to the a season rv site and once back home. During the week I live next to the train to commute to work, then on the weekend I drive a Jetta TDI to the trailer.

    So did you even look through this thread before comparing everyone to using a huge motorhome? And even if you do pull a trailer with a gas guzzler there are options to lessen your carbon footprint.

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Ahem, yes, people like Highdell, Msimmons, are the ones I'm referring to. I'm not exactly sure what the heck AscentCanada is talking about, but as I understand it, he's probably one of them too. There's plenty of fools like this around, many more than there are concerned, high-functioning citizens. I'm a little sickened now.




    Sean Salach, I've sorted your link up and down:
    http://www.eredux.com/states/index.p...=DESC&rows=228

    I'm not seeing much of any relationship to climate and carbon footprint in the USA. It doesn't matter much in my view. For one thing I freely admit that people around me are wasteful and uncaring ("yee-haw"), but so are reserved Vermonters. Secondly, and most tragically, we're all getting a little warmer because of what we're all doing with coal-burning power plants and auto exhaust, no matter where we live.

    I see rankings in carbon footprint (#1 being worst)
    1. Texas
    2. California
    3. Pennsylvania
    4. Ohio
    5. Florida
    6. Indiana
    7. Illinois
    8. New York
    9. Michigan
    10. Louisiana

    I see per captia carbon output (#1 being worst):
    1. Vermont
    2. Rhode Island
    3. New York
    4. Idaho
    5. California
    6. Oregon
    7. Connecticut
    8. Washington
    9. Massachusetts
    10. New Jersey
    i think your per capita rankings might be backward. i think the more green the state has, the 'greener' it is, and the grey represents carbon. they aren't very explanatory regarding they're ranking system. there is no way that vermont is the highest per capita for carbon footprint. i just can't see it. and alaska has to be pretty damned high for carbon footprint. there's no emissions testing here outside of anchorage and practically everyone drives an awd or 4x4. not to mention the motorized toys we love up here. so that would mean that all but one of the top ten greenest states per capita are states with mild to cold climates.

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    huh?
    what about me?

    he said you're a fool. he's challenging you to an E-slap fight. pants optional.

  58. #158
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    Okay, this awesome thread about RV'ing and mountain biking is about to be locked unless the thread highjack about carbon footprints stops now. That isn't what this thread is about, and if you want to debate that stuff, you will have to start your own discussion on it somewhere else.

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  59. #159
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    The title of this thread, "How many RV'ers in MTBR-land??" is a question that deserves an answer. I feel I have the right to object to them inasmuch as they aren't here with me and why. This is a topic of discussion on a forum centered on mountain biking, which is a self-propelled form of transportation through a natural setting.

    If carbon footprint is off the table, there are plenty of other reasons to debate why they shouldn't exist or be used by mountain bikers, but please allow debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregg
    Okay, this awesome thread about RV'ing and mountain biking is about to be locked unless the thread highjack about carbon footprints stops now. That isn't what this thread is about, and if you want to debate that stuff, you will have to start your own discussion on it somewhere else.

    -gregg, Mtbr site manager

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    The title of this thread, "How many RV'ers in MTBR-land??" is a question that deserves an answer. I feel I have the right to object to them inasmuch as they aren't here with me and why. This is a topic of discussion on a forum centered on mountain biking, which is a self-propelled form of transportation through a natural setting.

    If carbon footprint is off the table, there are plenty of other reasons to debate why they shouldn't exist or be used by mountain bikers, but please allow debate.
    I think you have made your point--repeatedly. Now you are just badgering people.
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  61. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    The title of this thread, "How many RV'ers in MTBR-land??" is a question that deserves an answer. I feel I have the right to object to them inasmuch as they aren't here with me and why. This is a topic of discussion on a forum centered on mountain biking, which is a self-propelled form of transportation through a natural setting.

    If carbon footprint is off the table, there are plenty of other reasons to debate why they shouldn't exist or be used by mountain bikers, but please allow debate.
    Nobody said you can't beat your own drum/preach/object or whatever it is you do, just not in this thread. Start your own. You could title it "How many idealistic,self absorbed,hypocrites in MTBR-land??" It'll be huge!

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    Way to hide behind the teacher.

    Many of the names you just called me mbmb65 encourage contradiction. If I continue on moral grounds, I'm idealistic. If I continue listing facts based upon my own experience, I'm self absorbed. If I point out mistruth from the numerous people here searching for something, anything, to "Al Gore" me with, I'm a hypocrite merely for acknowledging it.

    I would like to point out to the moderators that this is the Passion forum. What I feel strongly about, you may not share the same enthusiasm for. I am willing to take the heat upon me. Just about all of my posts have been responses to a question for me, questions of course being the most polite way to say it. I think I can continue to keep my cool on this thread, since it's so fairly easy to retort the blatant fallacies, but if you can't agree to allow this, I'd appreciate the consideration of a thread lock.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Nobody said you can't beat your own drum/preach/object or whatever it is you do, just not in this thread. Start your own. You could title it "How many idealistic,self absorbed,hypocrites in MTBR-land??" It'll be huge!

  63. #163
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    It's Passion for MTB and all things related. Not passion for beating people over the head with a stick for not being as environmentally sensitive as you.

    I appreciate your passion and give you a hearty thank you. I will, however, refrain from engaging in some sick environmental dick measuring contest with you. While I work to do more and be better towards the world in which we live I have no doubt that yours' is bigger.

    All that aside, you must be well aware that your posts here are winning no friends and certainly no converts. I basically agree with you but at this point would be willing to drop a cool million on a wasteful RV and a cross country MTB trip just to spite you. Why beat people when doing so will not move them in the direction you want them to go? How about a little carrot here?

    Perhaps you should direct you obvious anger in the direction of political activism where you could affect the change you would like to see.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Way to hide behind the teacher.

    Many of the names you just called me mbmb65 encourage contradiction. If I continue on moral grounds, I'm idealistic. If I continue listing facts based upon my own experience, I'm self absorbed. If I point out mistruth from the numerous people here searching for something, anything, to "Al Gore" me with, I'm a hypocrite merely for acknowledging it.

    I would like to point out to the moderators that this is the Passion forum. What I feel strongly about, you may not share the same enthusiasm for. I am willing to take the heat upon me. Just about all of my posts have been responses to a question for me, questions of course being the most polite way to say it. I think I can continue to keep my cool on this thread, since it's so fairly easy to retort the blatant fallacies, but if you can't agree to allow this, I'd appreciate the consideration of a thread lock.
    Like I said, you can start your own thread. Why lock this thread because you don't agree with the subject matter? So why not just move on? You've stated your case and made some valid points, some I even agree with, but dayem, enough already!

  65. #165
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    TunicaTrails, you live kind of close to this http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...ajun021505.pdf, and your state has this, http://www.catf.us/publications/fact...-Louisiana.pdf, so maybe I'd be more worried about other things than some RV's.

  66. #166
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    here's a pretty good site on the teardrop trailers, including some homemades:

    http://www.nicksteardrop.com/photos.htm

    my favorite, though not quite what i would want:


  67. #167
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    Because that's not the topic at hand, air quality's great where I live, and it's a subtle attempt to pass the buck. Start a thread about it and let's talk about you.


    Quote Originally Posted by ne_dan
    TunicaTrails, you live kind of close to this http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...ajun021505.pdf, and your state has this, http://www.catf.us/publications/fact...-Louisiana.pdf, so maybe I'd be more worried about other things than some RV's.

  68. #168
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    I don't agree with the characterization of any of your comments. There's wild swings here in mood, take responsibility for what you say, your position, and the facts and we'll trade information, maybe debate a little. I wish I were 5-10 people. It wouldn't be so easy for me to refute all of you by myself if you all weren't so tragically wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird
    It's Passion for MTB and all things related. Not passion for beating people over the head with a stick for not being as environmentally sensitive as you.

    I appreciate your passion and give you a hearty thank you. I will, however, refrain from engaging in some sick environmental dick measuring contest with you. While I work to do more and be better towards the world in which we live I have no doubt that yours' is bigger.

    All that aside, you must be well aware that your posts here are winning no friends and certainly no converts. I basically agree with you but at this point would be willing to drop a cool million on a wasteful RV and a cross country MTB trip just to spite you. Why beat people when doing so will not move them in the direction you want them to go? How about a little carrot here?

    Perhaps you should direct you obvious anger in the direction of political activism where you could affect the change you would like to see.

  69. #169
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    Doin' my part to enlarge my carbon footprint. I've dragged this thing all over the country. It's easy to pull and really doesn't have much impact on my gas mileage. It suits us well and we love it!

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Way to hide behind the teacher.

    Many of the names you just called me mbmb65 encourage contradiction. If I continue on moral grounds, I'm idealistic. If I continue listing facts based upon my own experience, I'm self absorbed. If I point out mistruth from the numerous people here searching for something, anything, to "Al Gore" me with, I'm a hypocrite merely for acknowledging it.

    I would like to point out to the moderators that this is the Passion forum. What I feel strongly about, you may not share the same enthusiasm for. I am willing to take the heat upon me. Just about all of my posts have been responses to a question for me, questions of course being the most polite way to say it. I think I can continue to keep my cool on this thread, since it's so fairly easy to retort the blatant fallacies, but if you can't agree to allow this, I'd appreciate the consideration of a thread lock.

    Yeah. Let's lock the thread because one a-hole enviro nazi doesn't like it. I am going to let my rig idle for an hour each time you post. Get a life.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
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  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    The title of this thread, "How many RV'ers in MTBR-land??" is a question that deserves an answer. I feel I have the right to object to them inasmuch as they aren't here with me and why. This is a topic of discussion on a forum centered on mountain biking, which is a self-propelled form of transportation through a natural setting.

    If carbon footprint is off the table, there are plenty of other reasons to debate why they shouldn't exist or be used by mountain bikers, but please allow debate.
    All of your arguments and bantering are based on your statistics based on Motorhomes and not the RVs that people have posted. So if you are going to come into a thread at least base your arguments on what people are posting. For the most part Westfalias and small trailers.

    Why don'y you go into the freeride / Downhill forum and rant about the carbon footprint of shuttling. Or the Bike Carrier forum and rant about SUVs?

    You've labeled people as wasteful that you know nothing about. Sounds like you've moved to the country onto 15 acres and setup a big off the grid house. Even knowing that I'll take my RV lifecycle strictly on Carbon footprint.

    I reno'd a small house 1100 sq foot and have 2 kids, its 1 block to the train for commuting in the winter. 12km ride to cycle to work in the summer. This seem more environmentally concience than living out of the city and commuting every day. Installed a high effiency furnace, inline water heater, and will replace my chimney with solar tubes for lighting. Monthly combined utiilty bill at -30 degress in the winter $225.

    I picked a Trailer and rent a seasonal RV site in an area that I want to explore and a typical RV site is quite small. Especially in a country larger than the US with the population of California. We then drive a car that gets 60mpg to get to our trailer.

    We try to follow the 100 mile diet, but its too far to get fruit for us. So we get our fruit from BC, and avoid US fruit, we can vegitables locally. The beef and chicken is directly from a rancher.

    So I take offence to you comparing everyone to driving Motorhomes and then labeling me when I challenge you to think .

  72. #172
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    Enough...
    more pics of RV please!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  73. #173
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    Way too much e-drama!

  74. #174
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    Airstream based off a Sprinter Van. Super cool if you want an RV. Mercedes based vehicle with turbo diesel. Sprinters are a nice size.


    Airstream also makes this cool smaller trailer

    A little larger than the typical teardrop but still compact

  75. #175
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    yeah, those trailers are stylee

    upon further examination, it kinda looks like a FF helmet (abstracted)
    maybe a TLD scheme would look cool
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  76. #176
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    It's >100F out here these days and I run my A/C @ 73!

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Enough...
    more pics of RV please!
    OK Pics...

    outback21rs.jpg

    Then I use a 2x4 with fork locks in the bed of my chevy when I'm gonna tow it. Its a pretty good set up queen bed out the back with bunks up front. If I'd gone 1 model larger it would have had a bunk house in front with a door. Might trade up in a few years.

  78. #178
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    These would be the ultimate.

    http://www.earthroamer.com/tab_xpedi..._overview.html

    Of course they are about 40 times more expensive than my 20yo mini winnie.

    I do agree that you are doing it wrong if you are parked 6 feet away from the next guy in astroturf land.

    Err - Nice rig youve got there. I would like to spend a summer at Tahoe in that.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
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  79. #179
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    Damn, talk about a good thread derailed. It's pretty sad but the biking community appears to be rife with complete wankers, and I've noticed that the numbers are growing.

    Anyways to get back on topic:

    I would absolutely love an EarthRoamer if I had $300K to spare right now but on a far more modest budget does anyone on here own, or have first hand experience, with the Airstream Base Camp? It's built specifically for outdoor enthusiasts and you can get a well equipped one for around $30K. My wife and I are thinking of picking one up next month but it would be nice to get some first hand reports beforehand.

    http://basecamp.airstream.com/


    And though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours...I simply am not there.

  80. #180
    is buachail foighneach me
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    holy crap! that thing is awesome. gives me some good ideas for my someday "teardrop".

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Show me an RV covered with solar panels and I'll be duly impressed.
    Try this. there are plenty more. Many RV people use solar panels when boondocking. Most RV's are not environmentally sound on the road but tend to be pretty efficient when parked; especially if used without hookups.
    http://rvtravel.com/blog/rvnow/uploa...5er-712163.jpg
    Oh sh!+ just force upgraded to cat1. Now what?
    Best thing about an ultra marathon? I just get to ride my bike for X hours!

  82. #182
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    We own a Casita not a Base Camp. If you want good information on anything Airstream go to http://www.airfourms.com. I think the Base Camp is now out of production and you could get a used one for a good price. Seems they really did not do too well in the market. People that spent that kind of money wanted a fully configured RV. Doesn't mean they weren't good just not appropriate for the Airstream market.

    Steve

  83. #183
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    Here are some pictures of the T@B. It is a pretty cool modern tear drop and runs about 9k-11k according to their website.





    http://www.tab-rv.com/

  84. #184
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    Here are some photos of the SylvanSport Go





    A very cool pop up that is designed for outdoor sports. Only weighs 800lbs. Kind of a base camp tent on a trailer. It is set up to accept standard bike rack rails.The pop up can be pulled low or high to give you an option to pull motorcycles or larger gear. There is a great pdf and flash presentation on their web page. http://www.sylvansport.com Starts at $6,200

  85. #185
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    Cool thread. It got me looking on CL for pop-ups!

    Question to this who like to travel light (i.e. broke like me) - How big of an advantage does a smaller unit have over a truck tent, if you are only camping for a few nights at a time? (assuming your bike can be locked up in the truck.)



    Has anyone done this and moved to bigger stuff? The one in the picture is about $300, but I've seen them for even less than that.

  86. #186
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    Here is our setup. 14" of clearance and frame suspension make it nice when we want to get off the beaten path.

    Aliner.JPG

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by morepower4me
    Cool thread. It got me looking on CL for pop-ups!

    Question to this who like to travel light (i.e. broke like me) - How big of an advantage does a smaller unit have over a truck tent, if you are only camping for a few nights at a time? (assuming your bike can be locked up in the truck.)



    Has anyone done this and moved to bigger stuff? The one in the picture is about $300, but I've seen them for even less than that.

    at that size, you could just get a medium - large size camper shell for your pick up and never have to take it off. put your bike and all camping gear in there, when you get somewhere, just make sure everything is to one side, roll out your sleeping pad(s) and go to sleep. when you get home, just un-pack and leave the shell on there.

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by AscentCanada
    OK Pics...

    outback21rs.jpg

    Then I use a 2x4 with fork locks in the bed of my chevy when I'm gonna tow it. Its a pretty good set up queen bed out the back with bunks up front. If I'd gone 1 model larger it would have had a bunk house in front with a door. Might trade up in a few years.

    Nice Trailer! I've been scouring CL all over Texas to find an Outback like that. Seems that Outback owners don't want to let go of 'em.

    Enjoy!

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjnuss
    We own a Casita not a Base Camp. If you want good information on anything Airstream go to http://www.airfourms.com. I think the Base Camp is now out of production and you could get a used one for a good price. Seems they really did not do too well in the market. People that spent that kind of money wanted a fully configured RV. Doesn't mean they weren't good just not appropriate for the Airstream market.

    Steve
    Steve,

    Thanks for the info. I will check it out.
    And though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours...I simply am not there.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlliKat
    ... Many RV people use solar panels when boondocking...
    we have 'em! works great!
    also the gennie is propane powered (not diesel)
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiplikestoridehisbike
    Here are some photos of the SylvanSport Go

    A very cool pop up that is designed for outdoor sports. Only weighs 800lbs. Kind of a base camp tent on a trailer. It is set up to accept standard bike rack rails.The pop up can be pulled low or high to give you an option to pull motorcycles or larger gear. There is a great pdf and flash presentation on their web page. http://www.sylvansport.com Starts at $6,200
    That thing is awesome. I looked at their website and vidoes. Pretty darn nice and pretty darn light too.

    The price is a bit too much for what it is. You can find a nice hybrid gently used for around that price.

    Still a great product.

  92. #192
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    This is my campervan

    " width="549">

  93. #193
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    We had a class-a motorhome for 5 years and 4 years ago got our Fifth-well.

  94. #194
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    Your response to my post makes no sense. Are you drinking?

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird
    Your response to my post makes no sense. Are you drinking?
    are YOU drinking?
    who are you even talking to?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails
    Y

    Let's get back to your God-given right to screw over the Earth after 50 years of hard work on the job. How sensitive to the environment are you being? I have plenty of sensitivity for what matters, and your feelings or your overblown sense of entitlement certainly isn't important to me.


    God put us on this earth to revel in the joys of capitalism.

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by The*King
    Nice Trailer! I've been scouring CL all over Texas to find an Outback like that. Seems that Outback owners don't want to let go of 'em.

    Enjoy!
    I've had it 2 seasons now, but to do it over again I'd do a comparison to a larger lightweight trailer. Here are the reasons

    The trailer has to be level before you pull out the bed. Then you have to pull it evenly. We were in Whitefish MT and it wasn't level enough. As I was pulling it out our nephew decided to "help" but pulling one side. It twisted and poped out of the track. It took about 1/2 to get back in and its a heavy sob...

    If its rained you have to dry the top of the slide out off or you'll get water inside.

    Its also a little narrow through the kitchen eating area, you are squeezing past each other.

    Also watch out for the fridges, they do not have a temperture adjustment. So if its not smokin hot out it'll freeze everything overnight. We turn the fridge off at night and then its fine. But it took a few frozen salads to learn.

    We like the floor plan and that the beds do not have to be converted to a table. Its also limited for storage space we end up hanging stuff in the bathtub.

    To do it over again we'd get something like this.

    http://www.rvwholesalers.com/design/...oorplan=2601SS

    The rear slid is actually quite heavy so this is only about 300lbs more.

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by AscentCanada
    I've had it 2 seasons now, but to do it over again I'd do a comparison to a larger lightweight trailer. Here are the reasons

    The trailer has to be level before you pull out the bed. Then you have to pull it evenly. We were in Whitefish MT and it wasn't level enough. As I was pulling it out our nephew decided to "help" but pulling one side. It twisted and poped out of the track. It took about 1/2 to get back in and its a heavy sob...

    If its rained you have to dry the top of the slide out off or you'll get water inside.

    Its also a little narrow through the kitchen eating area, you are squeezing past each other.

    Also watch out for the fridges, they do not have a temperture adjustment. So if its not smokin hot out it'll freeze everything overnight. We turn the fridge off at night and then its fine. But it took a few frozen salads to learn.

    We like the floor plan and that the beds do not have to be converted to a table. Its also limited for storage space we end up hanging stuff in the bathtub.

    To do it over again we'd get something like this.

    http://www.rvwholesalers.com/design/...oorplan=2601SS

    The rear slid is actually quite heavy so this is only about 300lbs more.
    That is good info to have. I didn't think of having the trailer level being an issue but it makes sense. That would be a problem for us because we tend to stay away from the concrete parking camping areas.

    I assumed that was the 18 or 21RS, is that right or is it a bigger one than that?

    Thanks again, peace.

  99. #199
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    "the bus"

    its green.

    78 Dodge, 57K! we found her at a car lot in town with $4900 on the window. two weeks later it said $2900. Score!

    Lots of trips to the rivers, drive in movie and the Fat Tire Fest in Eureka Spring was epic. So cool for July!

    Plans:
    big rack for the roof
    big flip down plasma ( I am tired of takin the one out of kitchen every weekend, its not a plasma!) all pimp my ride like!
    killer system.

    and a solar/electric/hydro engine! At 8-10mpg keepin it close to home is a must!

    love the bus, its hard bein green!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    http://queencitycycles.com home of the shiftless bastards

  100. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by The*King
    That is good info to have. I didn't think of having the trailer level being an issue but it makes sense. That would be a problem for us because we tend to stay away from the concrete parking camping areas.

    I assumed that was the 18 or 21RS, is that right or is it a bigger one than that?

    Thanks again, peace.
    Our campground up here are not concrete pad, but pretty level. I just didn't check the level before pulling it out. I tend to pull it out pretty slow but our nephew grabbed one of the handle and reefed on it figuring he was helping.

    Its just plastic tabs over the pins that are in the track. So if you pull one side more than the other you'll pop it out of the tabs and off the track. You could beef up the plastic tab with metal, but have a good look before you buy. I've seen another brand that the trailer bumper actually slides out with it. That could be alot better.

    The 18' are usually hybrid with tent trailer ends. When I looked the 21' was the smallest Rear Slide, so yes its a 21RS. A dual axle trailer sways less and pulls easier. Basically a 17' hybrid is usually single axle and a 19' is double.

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