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  1. #1
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    Anyone with an A4, S4 or S6 Avant?

    In the coming future I'll be looking for one of these three vehicles as my bike hauler and ski car.

    A4 Avant- 2000-up 1.8T quattro
    S4 Avant-1999-2001
    S6 Avant- 2000/2001

    My concern with the S6 was its fuel mileage. We're looking for these cars for bike and ski trips and extended high speed runs in Europe. Additionally, if we go on trips suddenly or can't find lodging, we're hoping to sleep in the back. Either of these have enough room (including the S6)?

    Any issues? How's the acceleration on a loaded A4 1.8t?

  2. #2
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    i just sold my S4 avant. It was a sick car but it is small...
    I mean its not big enough to sleep in for sure. The S6 is a good amount larger. I would totally recommend the S6 for what you are describing as far as use. My g/f has a 1.8t a4 sedan and they arent the quickest thing in the world, but that was after owning an S4

  3. #3
    Nat
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    I test drove an A4 1.8t and it seemed a bit lackluster. That was without cargo or even a full tank of gas.

    The Subaru Legacy GT is similar in size and function, but higher performance than the A4. It doesn't have the brand cache though.

    http://www.google.com/search?num=50&...on&btnG=Search

  4. #4
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    Not interested in a Subaru. Audi is in my recs for a reason. I'll be moving because it will be a domestic car where I'm going and I've driven them for years and will continue.

  5. #5
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Not interested in a Subaru. Audi is in my recs for a reason. I'll be moving because it will be a domestic car where I'm going and I've driven them for years and will continue.
    Get the S then. The A was putzy.

  6. #6
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    Well the A4 & S4 Avants will be exactly the same size, so it's a question of whether or not you want to spent the premium for the higher performance of the S along with the possibility of replacing your turbos on the S when they gernade (not if, when). The S6 would be a nice ride and I bet would be loads more comfortable if needed for sleeping, but not as fun as the S4. I'm not certain about Europe, but B5 S4s are demanding higher and higher premiums in N. America since they're rare and have such great power and handling potential, so the A4 will definietly save you money.

    S4s are a wonderful car; a good friend of mine has a 2000 sedan which we have put some work into; 99.5% of cars on the road can't hold a candle to this car. Only thing better than putting sports cars to shame with a 4 door is crushing them with a wagon .
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes
    in fact for trail type bikes I am tired of QR roady shite in general. Lets move on.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    In the coming future I'll be looking for one of these three vehicles as my bike hauler and ski car.

    A4 Avant- 2000-up 1.8T quattro
    S4 Avant-1999-2001
    S6 Avant- 2000/2001

    My concern with the S6 was its fuel mileage. We're looking for these cars for bike and ski trips and extended high speed runs in Europe. Additionally, if we go on trips suddenly or can't find lodging, we're hoping to sleep in the back. Either of these have enough room (including the S6)?

    Any issues? How's the acceleration on a loaded A4 1.8t?
    I have a VW Passat Wagon, which is about the size of an A6, and the Audi V6 2.7 engine. It's plenty peppy, loaded down or not.
    There would be room to sleep, but it would be a bit cramped if you're my height (6'3") but anything is. We passed on the A4 because of the size. It just couldn't carry two adults, a baby and two giant dogs that well.

    Oh, and get a stick. But that should go without saying...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by djcrb9
    I have a VW Passat Wagon, which is about the size of an A6, and the Audi V6 2.7 engine. It's plenty peppy, loaded down or not.
    There would be room to sleep, but it would be a bit cramped if you're my height (6'3") but anything is. We passed on the A4 because of the size. It just couldn't carry two adults, a baby and two giant dogs that well.
    The passat is the same as an a4, it's only a handfull of inches longer than the a4. Same platform, same suspension. If you're looking for a bigger car this is NOT it. My 97 GTI has WAY more room up front and about the same between the back/front seats of my b5 a4 avant sport. Don't get me wrong, I still love the thing.

    If you get 1.8t or a 2.7t and you want it NOT to be a slug... http://goapr.com/

  9. #9
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    THe Passat is actually a chassis where A6 and A4 frame members were grafted to one another, esentially.

    I've been reading more and more about the 2.7T turbo failures and the causes of them, which appears to be due to warpage because of turbo plumbing issues. Moral of that is to make sure the turbo hoses are in good shape, as well as the bypass valves. Anything beyond that is beyond me.

    It has turned me off to the cars, however. I'm looking for reliability. Even though I would do the engine work myself, it's not something I would like to do for the next few years, and the V8 has been quite reliable. The 1.8T versions are coming more into favor now with me again, and I would simply add more boost through several means, then change the intake plumbing to handle the extra boost. The turbo is easier to change on that engine, thank god.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    THe Passat is actually a chassis where A6 and A4 frame members were grafted to one another, esentially.

    I've been reading more and more about the 2.7T turbo failures and the causes of them, which appears to be due to warpage because of turbo plumbing issues.
    A Passat is a just stretched a4, stretched just in front of the rear wheels giving you more rear leg room and cargo room. They also have MORE than their fair share of electrical issues. Door latches, convenience control modules, mysterious harness issues... etc. I'll simplify, I work on VW and Audi and I bought the Audi.

    It's the diverter valves that suck on the 2.7t.

  11. #11
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    I too work on Audi.

    An no, I meant the bypass valves. What are you referring to by "diverter valve"? Would you happen to have the VAG part number so I can run it through the ETKA and verify what you're referring to?

    I also will not be buying a US market car.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken

    I've been reading more and more about the 2.7T turbo failures and the causes of them, which appears to be due to warpage because of turbo plumbing issues. Moral of that is to make sure the turbo hoses are in good shape, as well as the bypass valves. Anything beyond that is beyond me.

    It has turned me off to the cars, however. I'm looking for reliability. Even though I would do the engine work myself, it's not something I would like to do for the next few years, and the V8 has been quite reliable. The 1.8T versions are coming more into favor now with me again, and I would simply add more boost through several means, then change the intake plumbing to handle the extra boost. The turbo is easier to change on that engine, thank god.
    Apart from any problems with valves or hosing, heat is the real enemy of turbo engines. Heat in the turbo itself, downstream, heated intake due to all the other heat, exhaust, and so on. Good reliable turbo systems should have good turbo cooling sytems (water cooled on mine) and intercoolers to drop the temp before the engine. Anything you can do to reduce heat usually bosts HP and reliability.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  13. #13
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    Yep, they're water cooled, since the early 80's. In fact, after run systems to boot.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Yep, they're water cooled, since the early 80's. In fact, after run systems to boot.
    Yeah, but that's not necessarily a good sign. The turbo-timer system is indicitive of a system that simply runs too hot in the first place, so it needs to run and cool down after the car's stopped. We only have to resort to that when we switch out the stock turbos for much bigger units that can't use the stock cooling system. It's simply one more thing to break, and cars have enough of those already.

    Personally, I'm going beat the crap out of mine and replace it with the STi one if it ever blows, which is a very resonsable turbo and still can use the stock cooling system with no additional stuff.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  15. #15
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    No, I meant to type they are water cooled during operation as well, then they have an after run system to continue to cycle coolant in those tight engine confines, just like with the Porsches as well. The temps continue to rise even after for a time, so this helps reduce that. It really upped the durability of those turbos and I've done 300k on them when stripping a couple of those engines. The current one has 245k on it now. The pre-water cooled models struggled to 100k.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitchenware
    The passat is the same as an a4, it's only a handfull of inches longer than the a4. Same platform, same suspension. If you're looking for a bigger car this is NOT it. My 97 GTI has WAY more room up front and about the same between the back/front seats of my b5 a4 avant sport. Don't get me wrong, I still love the thing.

    If you get 1.8t or a 2.7t and you want it NOT to be a slug... http://goapr.com/

    The difference with the A4 is that the back window angles in, cutting a lot of space in the trunk area. Since we tote our dogs around back there, and they're 80 and 100lbs, that was a deal breaker for us.

    Up front i have plenty of room to drive comfortably, as i did in my 96 GTI. In the Passat, though, people can sit behind me comfortably, which is nice since i'm 6'3".

    I do miss that GTI sometimes, though.
    Thanks for the link, i'll check it out.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    No, I meant to type they are water cooled during operation as well, then they have an after run system to continue to cycle coolant in those tight engine confines, just like with the Porsches as well. .
    I know, we have similer systems called turbo-timers that run the car for a predetermined time after "shut down" to allow it to cool down, but it's an aftermarket thing after you've done serious other modifications and installation of non-stock parts.

    In any case, water cooled beats the hell out of the oil cooled ones.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
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    i just got rid of my a4 avant, it was a great car and never let me down. Like others said it is pretty slow but fast enough for an everyday driver. it was unstoppable in the snow. i never got stuck even charging throug a foot and a half of snow in mammoth (it was lowered too). but all in all it was a very comfy car and reliable (for me anyway). i would get the v6 and mod it to look pretty, because all the modded 1.8t is a headach.

  19. #19
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    Jerk C / I have an A4 Avant, 2.7 TDI. Is a great vehicle, gets me around Europe with ease, is economical, but also has the get up and go if you want it....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  20. #20
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    I have an A4 sedan, and I can fit my bike in the trunk/back seats (with the seats folded down) with little problem (I have two amps and a sub back there too). I've slept in my car with the rear seats folded down too. I've seen guys fit 8 tires on wheels in the back of their A4 Avant.

    My advice? If you just want a reliable car with a good amount of power loaded down or not, get the V6 A4 Avant, but make sure it's 98.5 or newer (they switched from a 12v design to 30v design). If you're interested in modding your car at all, get a 99.5+ 1.8t Avant, get a GIAC chip, 710n diverter valve, and call it a day. The chipped 1.8t will be faster than the v6, but some people don't want to mess with modding their car at all.

  21. #21
    Nat
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyle h
    I have an A4 sedan, and I can fit my bike in the trunk/back seats (with the seats folded down) with little problem (I have two amps and a sub back there too). I've slept in my car with the rear seats folded down too. I've seen guys fit 8 tires on wheels in the back of their A4 Avant.

    My advice? If you just want a reliable car with a good amount of power loaded down or not, get the V6 A4 Avant, but make sure it's 98.5 or newer (they switched from a 12v design to 30v design). If you're interested in modding your car at all, get a 99.5+ 1.8t Avant, get a GIAC chip, 710n diverter valve, and call it a day. The chipped 1.8t will be faster than the v6, but some people don't want to mess with modding their car at all.
    Kyle, what do the numbers in bold mean?

  22. #22
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    They were mid model year changes. Halfway through 1998 they updated the v6 for more power, along with some small interior/exterior changes.

    In 1999.5 they gave the interior/exterior a complete overhaul. They changed the headlights, tail lights, side markers, dash layout (vents, radio, cupholders, climate control), and some misc stuff.

    I say 1999.5 for the 1.8t because that was the only model that had the old style (AEB) engine, which had bigger ports on the head and had 20mm wrist pins instead of the 19mm wrist pins in the 2000+ engine, while having the new looks.

    Small differences, but if you're buying a car, you may as well get the best one possible.

    Also, if you get the 1.8t, make sure it's been run with 91 or higher octane gas, full synthetic oil, and an updated oil filter. If it has over 70k miles, make sure it's had the timing belt/water pump changed. Around 100,000 - 120,000 miles you need to change the control arms and tie rod ends, too.

    Here's a picture for reference-


    (I like A4's a little bit, if you can't tell.)




    also, check out these forums:

    www.audizine.com
    www.audiworld.com (funky layout, but the best information)
    www.audiforums.com
    www.fourtitude.com

  23. #23
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    Do you have a VIN crossover for the changes?

  24. #24
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    Nope, but I have this!

    http://ctny.audiworld.com/mark/a4/diff/

    Study it, and you'll be able to tell at a glance what year/trim an A4 is.

  25. #25
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    never mind...

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