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  1. #1
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    New question here. Your say on Scalpel 08 vs. Epic 09?

    Now the big discussion begins on which bike performs better. With Sauser just winning the World cup on board a prototype epic 09 while Roel ending 7th place on his scalpel.. lets hear from the expert which bike is now the best race bike in the world!

    http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCWha...14&refp=USHome

    http://www.cannondale-vredestein.com/

    What's your opinion.

  2. #2
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    Well, Jakob Fuglsang won the under 23 Worlds Championship on a Scalpel prototype last year.
    I think Sauser was more successful in the Cannondale team than he is now in the Specialized team anyway. Sure, winning the Worlds is great, but since this is an Olympic year the racers will peak later this year.
    The 09 Epic looks really nice, but the Scalpel still looks way better from an engineering point of view. The maintenance free linkage is such a big plus and will save weight.

  3. #3
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    Sauser would have won on either bike!

  4. #4
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    Don't give Mike Sinyard any more money!!! Cannondale Scalpel is the only option! Oh, and in terms of ride...I'd take the Scalpel. The Scalpel is pivotless, thus less maintenance...I prefer the simpler design than the likes of the four-link with brain. I see the Specialized as the overly technical, marketing enhanced bicycle for the idiot that doesn't know any better.

    Historically, I have found Cannondales to be more fun, better riding and more durable than the likes of their rival Specialized bikes. Lighter, stiffer and stronger. Four-link suspension is great, just not Specialized's version of it. I have found my Cannondale to pedal amazingly uphill and offer greater response and confidence downhill. I have never owned a Scalpel however I have ridden one of the new ones. Amazing just what can be done with such a light, little, stiff bike...I love it! My single-pivot Prophet is a way better trail bike than the likes of the Stumpjumper FSR and Enduro SL, if that means anything.

    I simply love the feel of Cannondales...ride both and see what you like. I think Cannondale is to Specialized what BMW is to Mercedes-Benz...have you driven a Mercedes-Benz?

  5. #5
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    excellent analogy.....i couldn't agree more.....

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmblg
    excellent analogy.....i couldn't agree more.....
    Yep, same here!
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mylesofsmyles
    I think Cannondale is to Specialized what BMW is to Mercedes-Benz...have you driven a Mercedes-Benz?
    Unfortunately, I haven't driven either. Curious what you mean exactly? I own an entry level Cannondale HT, but have been eyeing some Treks and Specialized.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by djp2k8
    Unfortunately, I haven't driven either. Curious what you mean exactly? I own an entry level Cannondale HT, but have been eyeing some Treks and Specialized.
    They are all great bikes, someone will like each one more than the next. I was referring to the BMW vs. Mercedes-Benz as they are both great cars, much like Cannondale and Specialized are great bicycle manufacturers. BMW believes in a "pure" motoring experience, simple, sporty and effective. Is there something that is technologically more advanced or superior, yes, but that doesn't always equate to a better or more fun experience. A BMW is more of a driver's car; I'd say a Cannondale is more of a rider's bike...they have a sportier, more lively feel; think VW GTI not Honda Civic.

    I think the Epic is a marginal bike hidden behind terms like S-Works, FSR and Brain...and a small number on the scale...if these are the only things to consider when buying a bike, than Specialized has it all over Cannondale. I'd suggest ride both, the better bike will speak for its self.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mylesofsmyles
    I think the Epic is a marginal bike hidden behind terms like S-Works, FSR and Brain...and a small number on the scale...if these are the only things to consider when buying a bike, than Specialized has it all over Cannondale. I'd suggest ride both, the better bike will speak for its self.
    The old Epic was starting to slide backwards. One of my friends had an alu Epic Marathon, and it was 27lbs. The Stumpjumper Comp weighed 27.5lbs.

    I think first and foremost is the Lefty is the best XC fork period. It weighs about the same as the SID World Cup but is 1000 times stiffer. One of the kids I coached had a Team Taurine and he noticed the stiffness over his SID immediately.

    I am curious about the overall bike weights. I believe the higher end Scalpels are stock weights at under 23lbs.

    Finally, pedaling performance and small bump compliance will have to be a subjective evaluation. I wonder if the Epic will outperform the Scalpel in plushness. I assume the Scalpel will still be tops in pedaling efficiency.

  10. #10
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    If anybody thinks that the bike made a significant difference in the results then you need a reality check.Its not the bike, its the rider. Suggesting that riding a Specialized mountain bike can cause you to win the World XC championship is like suggesting that riding a Specialized road bike will cause you to snort coke.
    In the same way a lot of riders who might want to ultra weight weenie their bikes like Sauser does also probably neglect to take every last pound off their body like he does. He looks super thin this year, which probably has more to do with his results than a bike he rode for the first time less than a week before the race and the fact that a lot of riders are peaking later for the Olympics.

    Kevin

  11. #11
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    Specialized pulled out all stops to win! Why? I assume the fact that the Epic was not winning which was costing them sales! I was undecided between the Scalpel & the Epic. After all the problems they had with their AFR shock & that the Epic was heavier, the choice was simple. The Scalpel! Not to mention the maintanence is more simple.
    I think Spec made the right choice to change the design(looks like a Scalpel), I still think they should get rid of the Brain. They will still have issues.
    By the way I think Sauser would have won regardless which bike he was on!

  12. #12
    Like catnip for people
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    Are you a Liberal or a Republican?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar1981
    Are you a Liberal or a Republican?
    What does that have to do with anything here? Unless you compare Specialized to the likes of Big Tobacco...that is even a stretch!

  14. #14
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    I already have a fork with a brain, it's a Lefty Terralogic! Okay, everybody knows how much I like Specialized as a company but still, a few of my thoughts:

    First thing that would keep me off that bike is the forks and shocks. I wouldn't want the trouble to have to send them back to the company every few rides... So far, their reliability records are about the worst from the whole bike industry.

    I don't like the looks of the Epic, it's too busy and oddly proportioned. I know that's not really important but it just jumped in my face: not elegant.

    Specialized are already waaaaay overpriced and the whole range is supposed to see price increases for 09, a 2009 S-Works Epic will probably cost a whole lot, it's already ridiculously expensive, especially as the current one is such a heavy and unstiff pig. With a re-design, new forks and shocks, new marketing campaigns to finance and innovative companies to buy or sue, the new Epic prices will probably skyrocket.

    Category leading sub 3-lbs fork? Where were they the last few years? A Lefty Max with 130mm is now sub 3lbs! And wait for the next top XC racing Lefty model... it's probably going to put to shame all other manufacturers who claim they have light forks!

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    And wait for the next top XC racing Lefty model... it's probably going to put to shame all other manufacturers who claim they have light forks!
    Please elaborate, the secret is safe with me

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiar577
    Please elaborate, the secret is safe with me
    I have nothing confirmed for now but the CV riders already had Lefties with new one piece spindle assemblies at the Worlds last weekend. I have seen rumors about a composite spindle... But apparently, the more interesting bits can't be seen so I'm guessing the internals will see major changes... But this is just between you and me.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  17. #17
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    I'm a big Cannondale fan, but I think its too early to compare the bikes since the 09 Epic is still far off.

    I am impressed by Specialized's attempt at lightening up their main XC rig to be able to compete with the comparable xc rigs out there
    You know what sucks worse than training? Losing.
    You know what sucks worse than losing? Nothing.

    Ride on

  18. #18
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    I think i remember the new epic having BB30.... If im correct i believe they are a little late to that.....

  19. #19
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    Specialized never innovate, they buy out, bully, sue, copy or whatever they can get away with... They're the Microsoft of the bike industry.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadpack
    Now the big discussion begins on which bike performs better. With Sauser just winning the World cup on board a prototype epic 09 while Roel ending 7th place on his scalpel.. lets hear from the expert which bike is now the best race bike in the world!

    http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCWha...14&refp=USHome

    http://www.cannondale-vredestein.com/

    What's your opinion.
    I don't think that you can argue which bike is better for oneself based on who has more wins. It's the rider that wins, not just the bike.

    I really haven't ridden either (current models or previous), so I can't honestly say much of either, but don't base a buying decision on which brand attracts the better athletes.

    Have you tried both bikes to see how you like the fit of each?

  21. #21
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    Lets not forget that Cannondale scalpel ( Fugelsang and Roel ) have also recently won the Cape Epic, arguably the toughest MTB stage race in the world. They beat Sauser ( who lost his partner ) and a host of various Specialized riders.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadpack
    Now the big discussion begins on which bike performs better. With Sauser just winning the World cup on board a prototype epic 09 while Roel ending 7th place on his scalpel.. lets hear from the expert which bike is now the best race bike in the world!

    http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCWha...14&refp=USHome

    http://www.cannondale-vredestein.com/

    What's your opinion.
    My opinion is that this is neither the time, nor the place to ask this question, since:
    1. This is a Cannondale forum. What do you expect people to answer?
    2. Almost no one has ridden the new Epic. Might be a lemon, might be the greatest bike ever.
    3. Winning world cups has little to do with the bike itself (No bike will ever be marginally better in this level) and a lot to do with the rider and team.
    4. Most new full sus. bikes have recalls in their 1st year (EX9, rush/ speed dlr, spesh enduro and other spesh branded forks, new scalpel etc.).

    We will only know who's better in a year or so.

  23. #23
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    DG
    You missed something in your post.

    Specialzed claims category leading rigidity at under 3 pounds for their fork. Its real hard to believe that their fork is more rigid than a Lefty. But then maybe they are only comparing forks, not to the Lefty which is a strut.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglecat
    DG
    You missed something in your post.

    Specialzed claims category leading rigidity at under 3 pounds for their fork. Its real hard to believe that their fork is more rigid than a Lefty. But then maybe they are only comparing forks, not to the Lefty which is a strut.
    That makes sense, Spec is a mkting company. The sad thing is that if they spent half the money they use in marketing into research & development they would have very nice bikes. I'm sure they don't care one bit.

  25. #25
    Ridin' dirty!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Specialized never innovate, they buy out, bully, sue, copy or whatever they can get away with... They're the Microsoft of the bike industry.
    But they came up with TSI (Total Suspension Integration).....to design a bike as a "whole".
    Sounds like cannondal'e's SI, system integration...
    Very innovative of Specialized to just add a letter...
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

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