Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: el_chupo_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,218

    What are the proprietary parts for C'dale?

    I am looking into getting a Prophet, but my LBS owner has a personal dislike for them, though he is helpful answering my questions. He isnt familar with some of the newer offerings, but he said when he raced, alot of thier stuff was proprietary. I know the lefty and front hub are, and that the head tube is onepointfive. Is there anything else? Shock mounts, BB, derailur hanger, anything like that? thanks in advance


    Matt

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    39

    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_
    I am looking into getting a Prophet, but my LBS owner has a personal dislike for them, though he is helpful answering my questions. He isnt familar with some of the newer offerings, but he said when he raced, alot of thier stuff was proprietary. I know the lefty and front hub are, and that the head tube is onepointfive. Is there anything else? Shock mounts, BB, derailur hanger, anything like that? thanks in advance


    Matt
    Just the components you mentioned.The only thing you left out was the stem..your stuck w/cdale there. The RD hanger is specific for each bike manufacturer, not just Cannondale. Cannandale make great bikes but the lefty limits you with the wheels. You're very limited with wheel sets that are available for conventional forks. I hope this helps..The Prophet is sick!!!My buddy just picked up a 4000 and it is very nice!!!

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: el_chupo_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,218
    Quote Originally Posted by stevieray05
    Just the components you mentioned.The only thing you left out was the stem..your stuck w/cdale there. The RD hanger is specific for each bike manufacturer, not just Cannondale. Cannandale make great bikes but the lefty limits you with the wheels. You're very limited with wheel sets that are available for conventional forks. I hope this helps..The Prophet is sick!!!My buddy just picked up a 4000 and it is very nice!!!
    That does help, but also leaves me with more questions. What is different about the BB? I thought there were a few common sizes, is thiers unusually large or small? I dont think Id be changing the stem too much, so I can live with that. Same for the RD hanger, that shouldnt be a problem.

    Frankly, Im not sold on the lefty, but Ive never ridden one. I am really enjoying my Marz. so I may go with the 400 just so I get the AM with the reducer headset.

    I have read several post on here about people changing the shock, are there other places than C'dale to get parts, or will everything be stuck going through a shop that deals? I dont have a local dealer, and I really like my LBS...

    Thanks
    Matt

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    22

    Optimized

    Here's a long response.

    Yes, Cannondale develops proprietary parts/components etc. Why? Because at Cannondale, bike development is a holistic process. They don't just build a frame and then buy parts. Once they've completely optimized a frame for ultimate weight/efficiency--they say "what else would meet the ultimate performance criteria of who's going to ride it?"
    If existing components don't meet the criteria--they make it themselves.

    Lefty forks have better stiffness to weight than any other fork in their class. When married to a Cannondale frame, you get a fully optimized and balanced ride.

    Same holds true in the BB region. An oversized BB shell married to an oversized spindle will increase efficiency. Cannondale SI cranksets are lighter and stiffer than XTR as a result.

    Proprietary is better--as long as it improves performance. Cannondale does everything for a reason. Optimize the bike for what the rider wants at the highest level.

    One of the reasons Cannondale is special is because they have the largest testing facility of any bike manufacturer in Bedford, PA. Not only have they helped set many Govt. standards, more importantly they can constantly competitively benchmark and tweak product until they're confident they're releasing the best performing product on the market.

    Ultimately a test ride should give you the results YOU want.

    I own several brands of bikes. My ride is always better on a Cannondale. The rest of the bikes in my quiver i ride for nastalgia.

    I also own a Prophet. I can't imagine them topping this bike for light freeriding. It's perfect.

  5. #5
    Bike to the Bone...
    Reputation: rzozaya1969's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    8,293
    I had a Jekyll. This is my personal point of view, so take it with a grain of salt.

    I think that Cannondale is like Apple, they have very nice stuff but a lot of it is propietary. I really don't know what you can or can't change, I guess it depends on bike. On the Jekyll the rear shock was unique, I think, because of where the bolts were. The Lefty is an awesome fork. I think you can put any fork on a Cannondale with a reducer, and some guys have put a Lefty on other brands (I think I've seen them on a Ventana and in a Turner).

    If you really like changing stuff on your bike, probably you would have trouble with Cannondale, but if you look at it in a broader sense, not every component is 100% compatible with 100% of the frames.

    Maybe just check for the right size stem when you buy the bike, I think that's hard to find (it was for me, but here down south of the border it's harder to find stuff). If you want to be on the safe side, order a deraileur hanger.

    On the Prophet, I've never riden it, I think it's a cool bike, but I think it's something like a love it or hate it.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: el_chupo_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,218
    Thanks for the response, and I do appreciate your opinion, but that doesnt really help me. I havent ridden it because I have chose not to. I decided to do some research before I choose a bike, to decide on a travel range I want, a price point I want, and parts specs I want.
    I know C'dale has the huge test site, and frankly, I havent heard bad things about the lefty. what concerns me more than anything is my lack of ability to get parts. I dont want to take an hour and a half to 2 hours each time I need a part.
    At the moment, I am almost sold on a single pivit bike. I am also looking at others, but I keep coming back to the 575, the heckler, and the prophet. All of which offer about the same travel, arround the same weight, and reasonable similar prices. My local dealer carries yeti, and is perfectly willing to help me out get its price down to within a couple hundred dollars of the prophet, so that isnt a problem.
    I am looking into the only downside I have found to the prophet, and what you said does help, but not for this.
    Essentially, my only concerns are this, in no paticual order:
    1. what are the specs for the BB, will i need to replace it for any reason other than normal wear and tear(like I would for any other BB, or is this one more prone to early wear)?
    2. The shock mounts - do I have options or am I stuck with buying full retail through a C'dale dealer? I would like to find an ebay deal and try it if I get a whim.
    3. the Lefty. I read in another thread that 40s riding is recomended service. Call me a newbie, but isnt that a little often to be dropping 40 bucks? if that is followed, I could easily see that being need 2-4 times a summer, if not more.

    Thanks all for the help, and opinions will never be disregarded, just taken with the normal, "I own this bike, its great" grain of salt.

    Matt

  7. #7
    Are you talking to me?
    Reputation: damion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    3,884

    In order.

    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_
    Thanks for the response, and I do appreciate your opinion, but that doesnt really help me. I havent ridden it because I have chose not to. I decided to do some research before I choose a bike, to decide on a travel range I want, a price point I want, and parts specs I want.
    I know C'dale has the huge test site, and frankly, I havent heard bad things about the lefty. what concerns me more than anything is my lack of ability to get parts. I dont want to take an hour and a half to 2 hours each time I need a part.
    At the moment, I am almost sold on a single pivit bike. I am also looking at others, but I keep coming back to the 575, the heckler, and the prophet. All of which offer about the same travel, arround the same weight, and reasonable similar prices. My local dealer carries yeti, and is perfectly willing to help me out get its price down to within a couple hundred dollars of the prophet, so that isnt a problem.
    I am looking into the only downside I have found to the prophet, and what you said does help, but not for this.
    Essentially, my only concerns are this, in no paticual order:
    1. what are the specs for the BB, will i need to replace it for any reason other than normal wear and tear(like I would for any other BB, or is this one more prone to early wear)?
    2. The shock mounts - do I have options or am I stuck with buying full retail through a C'dale dealer? I would like to find an ebay deal and try it if I get a whim.
    3. the Lefty. I read in another thread that 40s riding is recomended service. Call me a newbie, but isnt that a little often to be dropping 40 bucks? if that is followed, I could easily see that being need 2-4 times a summer, if not more.

    Thanks all for the help, and opinions will never be disregarded, just taken with the normal, "I own this bike, its great" grain of salt.

    Matt
    1.The Prophets use standard BB's. YOu can use an X type crankset if you want. You can use a std. bb crank combo. I am not sure of the size, but they will be std. parts. THe only Cannondale crank/bb is the SI combo on the Team race bikes.
    2. The prophet uses a std. size shock and mounting hardware. The shock size is 200x50.
    3. The Lefty is awesome. We have found the needed service time to be in line (or way longer) than any other type of fork.
    gfy

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: el_chupo_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,218
    Quote Originally Posted by damion
    1.The Prophets use standard BB's. YOu can use an X type crankset if you want. You can use a std. bb crank combo. I am not sure of the size, but they will be std. parts. THe only Cannondale crank/bb is the SI combo on the Team race bikes.
    2. The prophet uses a std. size shock and mounting hardware. The shock size is 200x50.
    3. The Lefty is awesome. We have found the needed service time to be in line (or way longer) than any other type of fork.
    Thank you very much. Precisely the answers I needed to keep the prophet arround the top of my list.

    Matt

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    351

    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_
    Frankly, Im not sold on the lefty, but Ive never ridden one.

    You have no idea what you're missing out on then.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    127
    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_
    Thank you very much. Precisely the answers I needed to keep the prophet arround the top of my list.

    Matt
    FWIW , ALL C-DALE frames of ALL sizes use a 68 mm wide bottom bracket.

    Also , they used to have 4bolts hubs , but if your bike is 2003 or newer , then you will not have to worry about this anymore . They switch it back to 6 bolts standard since 03.

  11. #11
    Are you talking to me?
    Reputation: damion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    3,884

    Not exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by phillyGTA
    FWIW , ALL C-DALE frames of ALL sizes use a 68 mm wide bottom bracket.

    Also , they used to have 4bolts hubs , but if your bike is 2003 or newer , then you will not have to worry about this anymore . They switch it back to 6 bolts standard since 03.

    All Cannondale framed BUT SI frames use a 68mm BB. SI frames use the Cannondale SI crankset with its's oversized BB shell, oversized BB, and matching cranks. This setup is on the high end road and MTB race bikes only.
    gfy

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pin-it's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    205
    As far as the Prophet frame goes the only thing that's proprietary comes from the Lefty's stupidly sized steerer tube, which is nearly 1.5 but not quite. As a result it needs a special headset that fits in standard 1.5 head tubes and a special stem (and hub for obvious reasons.)

    So from a frame standpoint, the Prophet is normal with standard fittings and sizes all around. When I built mine I knew I didn't want to bother with Leftys because I wanted standard parts throughout, so I put on a Pike and never looked back.

    I'm not a Lefty fan, but I'm not a Lefty hater, they're just not for me.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    14
    Hey chupo, i was in the same boat as you but with the rush. I was totally psyched out on the lefty but like the components of the upper end bikes. I decided to get the 400 with (normal) forks and upgrade from there, yea it may cost a little more but i got the color i wanted and forks. besides i can sell the original parts on ebay. it seemed like to much of a hassel to have my lbs swap out the lefty for the r-seven's.

    cheers

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,049
    There is very little on a Cannondale that Is proprietry to the brand.
    Currently it's only:

    Headset
    Lefty fork
    Front Hub
    Steerer tube and Stem although Thomson are moving into this area and Woodman have long time supplied Headshok components.

    Only the Team Replica bikes have the Cannondale Si Cranks. You can order a Team replica without this option too.
    Everything else is std off the shelf bits.

    Derailleur hangers are always specific to a frame design but as far as I can tell, Cannondale use the same design on all their frames.

    The BB shell on all C'dales is 68mm width, except on SI versions where it's 70mm I think..

    Pivots bearings are off the shelf items. Even the Headset bearings are off the shelf but are Aviation specificso designed for axial loadins which makes them expensive.
    I've only ever had to replace one bearing largely due to my LBS being Lefty/ Headshok prejudice ****'s and using a jet wash on the bike and pointing it directly at the bearings in the headset.


    If your LBS does not want to supply the bike of your choice, then it's time to find a new LBS...

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_
    That does help, but also leaves me with more questions. What is different about the BB? I thought there were a few common sizes, is thiers unusually large or small? I dont think Id be changing the stem too much, so I can live with that. Same for the RD hanger, that shouldnt be a problem.

    Frankly, Im not sold on the lefty, but Ive never ridden one. I am really enjoying my Marz. so I may go with the 400 just so I get the AM with the reducer headset.

    I have read several post on here about people changing the shock, are there other places than C'dale to get parts, or will everything be stuck going through a shop that deals? I dont have a local dealer, and I really like my LBS...

    Thanks
    Matt
    I have a CAAD3 Hartail W/Headshock & recently sold a Scalpel, W/Headsock also, I've replaced both BB with Shimano XT 68mm (113 Spindle) That is a standard BB sold everywere. Like the previous replies mention the only one non standard is the SI. My friend's Prophet 4000 has a FSA carbon crank with external BB. This configuration will work on just about anything with a 68mm shell. FYI the octalink XT didn't last to long and I've had even shorter service experience with the "isis" BBs.
    As far as lefties and headsocks go only a Cannandale dealer can service them and in some cases the forks will go back to Cannandale for repair. Two of my local LBS do limited work on those forks but they require some special tools for servicing.

  16. #16
    shiny side up
    Reputation: wakeboardR2wheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by el_chupo_
    3. the Lefty. I read in another thread that 40s riding is recomended service. Call me a newbie, but isnt that a little often to be dropping 40 bucks? if that is followed, I could easily see that being need 2-4 times a summer, if not more.

    I think the other thread you are referring to was the one I started. Here's an update on my lefty, the one I was worried about. It appears that everything is perfectly normal. Everything I have experienced has been normal, I was just unaware of what was considered "normal" operation. I have 500+ miles on the bike and way more than 40 hours of dirty riding with no issues other than the rebound adjuster not clicking, but it does still work. I've spoke to a local bike mechanic that confirmed the C-dale 40 hour rebuild, but told me that most will go 1500-1800 miles before he would even start to think about a rebuild. That made me feel better. So I went out and rode Sat. and had a great ride on the Prophet! What a fun bike!

    Enjoy!

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: el_chupo_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,218
    Thanks everyone.
    Lets see here:
    wakeboardR2wheels - It was your thread, I saw the answer posted, but thanks for posting and for the update.

    Brad - my LBS doesnt carry Cannondale, its not that he wouldnt order one for me. I dont want to switch bike shops, I like the shop. He just doenst have alot of C'dale experience. Thank you for the info, and the info about thompson maybe making stems.

    patsplat - how do you like the r-7?

    Pin-it - Thanks for the info on it not being an acutal 1.5. If i get the prophet and dont want the lefty, I would be using a 1 and 1/8 steer tube fork anyways, so as long as I have the reducer Ill be ok. Good thing I dont have my heart set on 1.5 fork...


    And thanks again to all the info on teh BB size and what fits. That will be helpful if I decide to build one instead of getting one prebuilt.


    Matt

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by pin-it
    As far as the Prophet frame goes the only thing that's proprietary comes from the Lefty's stupidly sized steerer tube, which is nearly 1.5 but not quite. As a result it needs a special headset that fits in standard 1.5 head tubes and a special stem (and hub for obvious reasons.)

    So from a frame standpoint, the Prophet is normal with standard fittings and sizes all around. When I built mine I knew I didn't want to bother with Leftys because I wanted standard parts throughout, so I put on a Pike and never looked back.

    I'm not a Lefty fan, but I'm not a Lefty hater, they're just not for me.
    Before you call it "stupidly sized" you should remember that Cannondale had that size head tube almost 20 years before the 1.5 std. came out. And dispite their good intentions (and Cannondales pleading) some one in marketing probable thought that One.Five would sell better then One.FiveSixTwoFive.

    The Headtube dimenions are the same at a One.Five headtube so you can use a One.Five headset if you wish (available for 1.125 and 1.5 steerers).

    But really you should go with the Lefty it will make you wonder why you were ever riding anything else. As for parts availability you will likely have to ahve Lefty parts ordered. But call around and try to find any shop that stocks internal parts for any other make of fork.

    BIG PLUS you will not need to replace bushings any more. So while you typically might need to do this once a year or more on a traditional bushing fork. A Lefty will go years without a care. Just pull the boot down and dab some grease on once every few months. If you need a oil change any shop that knows what they are doing can pull this off. Or better yet do it yourself, no special tools requires. Oil change on a Lefty is easier then any non-open bath fork on the market.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •