Results 1 to 34 of 34
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117

    Stages MTB Cannondale SI Powermeter on SISL Crank?

    Hey,

    I do have a SISL MTB Crankset and I am interested in the Stages Cannondale SI Power meter crank. I have asked Stages if it would fit and I got below response:

    "It will fit on the axle, but from what I am told from Cannondale, the offset is different between the SISL and the SISL2 & Si arm that we sell. I think they changed the length of the axle and the bend of the arm to accommodate it so the q-factor would stay the same. I don't have the actual measurements on hand though of how far it would be off."

    Now the question is: Assuming it would be off a little, is it ok to ride it? Has anyone tried the setup?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    I've got a Stage SI on order that will be shared on 2 bikes (SISL2+109mm new style spindle on my Evo so no issues there, older SISL+104mm old style spindle on my CX which creates the same issue as you). I can see the arms are shaped a little differently just by looking at them (new ones have a shorter 'angled' section in the middle and longer, flatter section at the pedal end), I can't measure precisely the difference while they're mounted but I guess that it's half of the 5mm spindle length difference assuming they kept the same arm curves on both sides and that they kept the same q-factor. That would make a 2.5mm change in just one arm... I can check more precisely once I get the Stages arm if you didn't get an answer by then.

    But, it's okay to ride it. The difference is minimal... some people might never even feel it while others might but you could just offset the cleat of one shoe if you want to make sure both feet are at the exact same distance from the centerline of the bike, or put a shim between the pedal and non-driveside crankarm (making sure there's still enough thread though). More expensive options would be to buy a new driveside arm or a pedal spindle that offsets one pedal to get your feet centered again (but that's not possible with all pedals... and well, it does the same as just moving a cleat).

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    I love this forum. Perfect response in a matter of minutes. Thanks a lot.

  4. #4
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Quote Originally Posted by larsd View Post
    I love this forum. Perfect response in a matter of minutes. Thanks a lot.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    Just got another response from Stages:

    "I am not sure, but we were told by Cannondale that it is too different and they recommended against it.

    Here’s a photo of the old arm
    http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/w...SL-175mm-C.jpg

    Vs new arm
    http://www.stagescycling.com/StagesC.../models/Si.jpg

    It is a bit hard to see, but you can see the bend is definitely different."

    Anyway I ordered one. Lets see...

  6. #6
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Just got the confirmation mine shipped today so, we'll see. But you sometimes have to take these recommendations with a grain of salt. How many times have I seen manufacturers say this is not compatible with that but in the real world, it is...

    But another thing I just thought of is that, since the newer arms are less wide, if your old one is dangerously close to the chainstay, the new one will be even closer if you use the same crank spindle... It doesn't seem like an issue in my case but sometimes it can be tighter on mountain bikes.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    I agree. The manufacturer has to be on the safe side. Yeah I checked the space to the chainstay. No issue there.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikesinmud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,176
    You know when you run stages on your C'dale cranks you'll only be second best to those of us running SRM!

  9. #9
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    SRM is a great product, it's the king of powermeters... but for my use and budget, the Stages is great too. It's a much better value plus it's more user friendly and since I got Hollowgrams on three bikes (road, cx, mtb) I can swap it between each bikes in about 2 minutes!

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikesinmud's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,176
    oh yeah btw, stages are on my XTR.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by bikesinmud View Post
    You know when you run stages on your C'dale cranks you'll only be second best to those of us running SRM!
    And by SRM, don't you mean boat anchor? Just kidding. Sort of... At any rate, this is a timely forum as I just emailed stages with the identical question, prior of course to searching the inter webs.

    I too have a 2012 evo and am hoping to use the stages Si crank with the SiSL crankset I have been running. We'll see.

    I ran a set of Vectors for a month and that was an interesting experiment....

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    What about the Vectors? Would be interested in some information.

  13. #13
    Never trust a fart
    Reputation: frdfandc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    4,049
    Quote Originally Posted by larsd View Post
    What about the Vectors? Would be interested in some information.

    The Garmin Vector pedals are a road only pedal system. The pedal pods will only work with the Garmin pedals. And the cost of the pedals is approx $1700.

    Here is a good review of the Garmin pedals.

    Garmin Vector In-Depth Review | DC Rainmaker

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by larsd View Post
    What about the Vectors? Would be interested in some information.
    larsd, sorry for the delay. Blame Xmas week! I bought the Vectors when I realized stages wouldn't work with my SiSL crankset. Mind you, this is on my roadbike, A supersix EVO. So with my shop discount I dropped 1475, eager to get in on PWR training. The weight penalty was only about 110grams, fwiw. Installation took some tinkering over a day or so. I need to update the firmware, and to do this, I needed to take the battery cover off of each pedal pod, wait for 20 sec. and put it back in. THis opens a window where you click on a update button on your laptop, web tool, and then it is supposed to be automated from that point forward. Keep in mind you do this twice, once for each pedal. However, this process kept timing out. So this actually took me the better part of an hour and was annoyingly tedious. FINALLY, it took. Then you need to set the crank arm angles. Head Unit instructs you when to do so. And finally, at the beginning of each ride they recommend calibrating the pedals, but this consists of backwards pedaling for 5 seconds. That said, it is nice to have the power measured independently and right where the power is input to the bike, ie the pedals. I found consistenetly I had a power imbalance of left leg 52% to right leg 48%. IE my left leg is stronger. My wife, a PT, gave me strengthening excersices to correct the issue. Hopefully. HOWEVER, I ride a Hollowgram Crank and because the narrow Q Factor (width of pedals from one another, essentially) when i shifted into 53/11 - the cable plug fromt he pd rubbed the chain! This was unnacceptable and uncorrectable. So, after a month, I returned them with Garmin's blessing. They acknowledged the issue, though I had the pedals a week before official release and think I must have been the first user to raise the concern. I chalked it up to lesson learned, S@#$ happens and decided to stay old school and continue to train via HR and RPE - it's worked so far. If Garmin can get this product to work without the need for PODS, its game over for the others in my opinion. As far as accuracy, I assume it was accurate. But really, as long as it is consistent, then that's what matters. There was a 1-2 second alg in pedal pressure to display readout on my Edge 510. FWIW. Good Luck!

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous View Post
    Just got the confirmation mine shipped today so, we'll see. But you sometimes have to take these recommendations with a grain of salt. How many times have I seen manufacturers say this is not compatible with that but in the real world, it is...

    But another thing I just thought of is that, since the newer arms are less wide, if your old one is dangerously close to the chainstay, the new one will be even closer if you use the same crank spindle... It doesn't seem like an issue in my case but sometimes it can be tighter on mountain bikes.
    Hey Dan, did you get your Stages sisl set up yet? Curious how it works on your EVO.

  16. #16
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmo31 View Post
    Hey Dan, did you get your Stages sisl set up yet? Curious how it works on your EVO.
    It's supposed to get here monday, and it will be on my cross bike until spring. The setup will be more tricky on the cross bike since it has the older SISL crankset and spindle. On my Evo that has the SISL2, the offset/spacing/width will be identical so it will be as easy as a crankarm swap.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous View Post
    It's supposed to get here monday, and it will be on my cross bike until spring. The setup will be more tricky on the cross bike since it has the older SISL crankset and spindle. On my Evo that has the SISL2, the offset/spacing/width will be identical so it will be as easy as a crankarm swap.
    Good luck with the cross install, and let us know what you think of the Stages.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    Thanks for the Vector feedback. My Stages is arriving in early Jan. Hopefully it will work on my SISL, otherwise I have an expensive piece of Metal laying around...

  19. #19
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmo31 View Post
    Good luck with the cross install, and let us know what you think of the Stages.
    Received, installed and tried....

    Installation mated to a Hollowgram SL wasn't too complicated but as I suspected, the non-driveside Stage-equipped arm installed on the old BB setup means that, at the pedal, is a few mm closer to the frame. On my CAAD9 CX frame, there is no clearance problem with the Powermeter's added casing but the end of the crankarm is very close to the chainstay... but no contact even under load. For winter, it will be ridden inside only so I put Speedplay Zero pedals which are some of the easiest to fine tune the cleat's position, I just moved the cleat of the left foot so both feet are perfectly centered with the bike/myself.

    I'm using a Garmin Edge 500 computer, super easy to pair, the Garmin detected the device automatically. When calibrating it, make sure to follow what Stages are saying, the left arm must be pointing down (6 o'clock) without being clipped in.

    As for it's performance, I only did one training ride on a trainer with it, seems to work fine but I haven't done a test to set my power zones and I have never ridden with power before so I can't tell much about it for now. I did intervals according to my heart rate, I'm planning to do a test sunday. But, it's so easier to maintain a consistent load with power compared to HR, it's instantly telling you the info while HR is slow to react and can depend on many factors...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    Good to know. Thanks a lot. Will get mine this week finally. Will be able to comment on accuracy as I am already riding with Powertap on road bike.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    Just installed the Stages. As expected there seems to be some difference but its hard to tell and to align the crank arms properly to measure the actual difference. However it seems to work well and the numbers are similar to my Powertap numbers so no issue here.

    Stages MTB Cannondale SI Powermeter on SISL Crank?-1.jpgStages MTB Cannondale SI Powermeter on SISL Crank?-img_3388.jpgStages MTB Cannondale SI Powermeter on SISL Crank?-img_3387.jpg

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: need4gforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    514
    I cant see any difference... Good to know! Cannot wait to get mines!!!!!!!!!!
    Larry Miller-
    www.laxon3.tumblr.com

  23. #23
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    The difference at the pedal is a few mm...

    I've got three rides on a trainer with mine and while it works well, the battery is already dead, very far from the claimed 200 hours of ride (more like 200 hours including the bike sitting there, maybe 4 hours of actual use). Yesterday, it was dropping it's connection for a few seconds throughout my training... Could be the original battery wasn't full, I can't connect to it with their iPhone app to check if a firmware update would fix it either so I'm not super happy about it so far. Maybe I'll need to take the battery out every time I don't ride the bike, kind of stupid/annoying. There seems to be many people with the same issue as well and no real fix except to put a new battery after every 4 hours of riding... Some people actually see the bluetooth signal from their cars/computers even when the bike is just sitting there so, seems to be a bug that makes some units not fully go to sleep when they should with the bluetooth always draining a bit of power...

    I've contacted their tech support, no response yet but hopefully they can help.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    We actually have several people in the team who got the Stages individually (different production dates) and ALL of them had the battery issue. Basically we now get a new battery before every singe ride.

    In addition to that there is another issue from two people in the team where the Stages would read something like 20.000 Watts for some seconds and then nothing for another 30 or so seconds. Even after a replacement the issue was still the same for one person. (Was ok after a 3rd replacement so had nothing to do with the head unit)

    Mind you though, Team SKY is now officially using stages which was in a press release just last week.

  25. #25
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Hmmmm...

    I couldn't care less about Team Sky, they might also have a sponsorship from Duracell.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    Stages MTB Cannondale SI Powermeter on SISL Crank?-img_5367.jpg

    I guess today the unavoidable happened. Battery gone. I would assume it is just a matter of time until that happens on a MTB given the exposure of the unit. I suggest everyone to wrap some tape around the unit...

  27. #27
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Contact Stages, they had a batch of faulty battery doors I was told. As far as I could tell, the problem was that they are too loose so it could either leave some space that had the battery lose contact (so losing connection with your head unit, that was my case) or, I guess, lose the door.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1
    Dan and Larsd

    I have been reading your post with interest. I am thinking about getting stages powermeter and swap it between my Flash and Evo, both with hollowgram SISL.


    What are the conclusions on the stages powermeter on hollowgram SISL, for both flash and Evo?

    Does it work on Flash with the SI on left and SISL on drive side?

    Does the EVO require a 109mm spindle, instead of the SISL 104mm? If thats the case are any other changes needed to the drive line or front derailleur?

    Our general experience with stages powermeter would be appreciated.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: need4gforce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    514
    I have no input on the si to sisl setup. Like others said you prolly won't feel it.. clearance should not be an issue. I have about 10 rides on my stages and the numbers look as good as my quarq riken.

    Stoked to run the si on my mtb and throw it on my cross bike come racing season!!!
    Larry Miller-
    www.laxon3.tumblr.com

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    All your questions are actually answered in the thread here. Not sure what you are looking for.

  31. #31
    grinder
    Reputation: nordy643's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    140
    This is maybe a stupid question, but what do you do with the extra left crank arm after replacing it with the stages? Reason I ask is because I recently installed a set of Hollowgram Si's on my road bike and was looking at ordering a Stages crank arm.

  32. #32
    bdr
    bdr is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1
    I have a 2012 Cannondale Flash 29er with Hollowgram SL crank. Back in early 2013 Stages originally offered both a Hollowgram SL and Si option. I placed an order for the SL crank which got delayed a couple times due to QC issues. Stages eventually canceled my order and returned my money saying they could not resolve the QC issues with the SL crank.

    So it appears from this post that it is possible to install the Si crank arm onto my SL crankset. Is that so? It appears possibly a slight difference in crank curve offset.

    While doing some research, it appears that the main difference with the old SL crank and the new Si is that the SL is lighter due to being a two piece design, which the new Si is heavier due to a single piece design. I am thinking that the QC issues that stages had was related to the two piece design causing inconsistent deflection that the strain gauge could measure.

    larsd, it looks like you are running a similar setup as mine, were also told by Stages it would not work but seems to be running fine for you. Please confirm, thanks.

  33. #33
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Again, the new SI, when installed on an otherwise all pre-2013 setup (Hollowgram SL) will bring the pedal-end of the crank arm about 5mm closer to the bike (measure approximative). I can't say if clearance will be a problem, depends of your frame and your spindle length. It also creates an offset of your stance (both feet relative to the bike) toward the driveside. On my CX bike, I just moved my left foot's cleat sideways to have my feet centered. Depending of the pedal you use and their cleats, this can be possible or not. You can also change the offset and recenter things by playing around with spindles and spacers...

    I also think Stages stopped offering the bonded SL model because of the two piece bonded construction... but it might also have something to do with Cannondale having stopped producing the SL so Stages would have stopped offering them anyway, might not have been worth the trouble to make it work for a model that they just couldn't get anymore.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    117
    Not going to repeat myself again. Mentioned it several times here.

    However make sure to run some light isolation tape around the whole unit. Dust and water will eventually make their way into the unit and you will have the drained battery issue. The standard cap is NOT sealing the unit properly. Specially in heavy rain. There is also a risk of the cap actually falling off or being punched out in rough terrain where a stone etc. can hit the unit.

    Stages MTB Cannondale SI Powermeter on SISL Crank?-img_4847.jpg

Similar Threads

  1. improving seal on stages powermeter
    By jroden in forum XC Racing and Training
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-05-2014, 11:01 AM
  2. Stages Sram powermeter on fat bike?
    By wetpaint in forum Fat bikes
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-27-2014, 11:51 AM
  3. Stages XT Crank
    By need4gforce in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-17-2013, 02:17 PM
  4. 2x9 to 1x11 but in stages, crank compatability info please
    By Crash Bang in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-25-2013, 08:47 AM
  5. 29er Project: leviathan 4.0, PBR 140, SiSl, Enve
    By jthurd in forum Weight Weenies
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-19-2012, 01:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •