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  1. #1
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    servicing the Rize central pivot

    I wanted to replace the central pivot of my Rize 2009. Not because it's broken or anything, but simply because the bike has sustained continued abuse for a few years, and it's time to service all the moving parts.

    However, I do not seem to be able to remove the existing pivot. I took off the bolt from the left side, but the pivot seems to be very tightly stuck. I can turn it using a wrench, indicating that it is not galvanically welded (that was my biggest worry). But hitting on the protruding bit on the left side with a rubber hammer hasn't produced any effect.

    Any advice on what to do? Many thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    bang it out hard w/ with a metal hammer and socket extension. replace w/ new hardware
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
    '11 Cannondale RZ 120-two

  3. #3
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    Thanks! I followed your advice (with some trepidation) and could get the darn thing out very quickly!

    It was a good thing, because it made clear that the bearings are completely toast. Which brings me to my next question: how do I get the darn bearings out of their sockets? They are glued, as far as I understand...

  4. #4
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    The main pivot bearings are press-fit. To get the bearings in/out, you will need a press tool. I used a bolt, a small block of wood, and some washers from the local hardware store to create a suitable home-made press/extraction tool.

    I drilled a hole in the block of wood just large enough for the bearing to fit through. The wood block worked well because it does not dent/mar the swing-arm when the extraction pressure is applied.

    If you are not used to pressing/extracting bearings and fabbing-up your own tool to do so, you may want to just take the swing-arm to a shop and let them do it for you.
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
    '11 Cannondale RZ 120-two

  5. #5
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    Great advice, Stumpjumpy - thanks! And by the way, I am a neuroscientist, so I am really interested in studying your brain (based on your interesting avatar)!

    In case I wouldn't fab my own press-tool, is there anything commercially available (Park Tools or similar) that you would recommend?

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    LOL re my brain!

    Yeah, I'm sure a proper commercial tool exists (whatever a bike shop would use), but I dont know which they are.

    BTW, most folks agree that the Enduro MAX bearings are the best pivot bearing repacements available, with a 2-3x increase in service life vs. the OE bearings.

    Good luck!
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
    '11 Cannondale RZ 120-two

  7. #7
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    So, I finally managed to extrude the bearings - but it was a major pain!

    My question to the conoscendi: do I really need to apply Loctite, when replacing the shock/pivot bearings? After all, the bearings are tightly held in place by the pivot and (for the shock bearings) by the respective screws, all of which are Loctite-secured.

    I ask because it was so incredibly difficult to get the original bearings out of the frame, and I worry that the frame might not survive such stress a second time...

  8. #8
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    servicing the Rize central pivot

    A little late to the game but I've used different sized sockets and a vise as press fit tools. Won't work in all applications just because of getting a frame in the right position with the vise but it does for some.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  9. #9
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    Do a Google search for 'Rize Bearing Service Tech Note 122175'

    This will explain everything you need to know about servicing the seatstay and shock link bearings

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
    Do a Google search for 'Rize Bearing Service Tech Note 122175'

    This will explain everything you need to know about servicing the seatstay and shock link bearings
    Yep - that.

    There is a long thread on here, too, that deals with the pivot bearing replacement process w/ pointers, tips, hints, tricks, best practices, etc.

    My Rize seatstay and main pivot bearings
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
    '11 Cannondale RZ 120-two

  11. #11
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    The loctite used in the pivot bearings are held in with what is called a "retaining compound" which doesnt "release" until it reaches about 500 degrees (F). I used a $13 heat gun from harbor freight. After heated to the appropriate temperature all the bearings almost fell out or released with a socket and bearing press with minimal force. The 500 degrees isnt anywhere near hot enough to compromise the structure of aluminum alloy.

  12. #12
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    Thanks - this is very helpful. Also, I am having trouble finding a collection of assorted washers/spacers/distance rings suitable to fabricating appropriate press tools. Specifically, I am trying to find tube-like metal parts with an internal diameter between 35 and 50mm and a length (or rather a height) of 2-3cm.

    The local hardware shops I visited didn't carry anything like that. If push comes to shove I might buy a few metal tubes and trim them - but this is going to add expense and trouble. Google wasn't very helpful either. Anybody has a "secret tip" on this issue?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriano View Post
    Thanks - this is very helpful. Also, I am having trouble finding a collection of assorted washers/spacers/distance rings suitable to fabricating appropriate press tools. Specifically, I am trying to find tube-like metal parts with an internal diameter between 35 and 50mm and a length (or rather a height) of 2-3cm.

    The local hardware shops I visited didn't carry anything like that. If push comes to shove I might buy a few metal tubes and trim them - but this is going to add expense and trouble. Google wasn't very helpful either. Anybody has a "secret tip" on this issue?
    Maybe get some washers a little larger than you need and put them on a large nail or screwdriver, then hold the screwdriver like you're eating corn on the cob and put them up against the wheel on a bench grinder. They should spin and take material off evenly and hopefully slowly enough to get them at the diameter you need. It could be tricky, but may work. Just a random thought.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaro View Post
    Maybe get some washers a little larger than you need and put them on a large nail or screwdriver, then hold the screwdriver like you're eating corn on the cob and put them up against the wheel on a bench grinder. They should spin and take material off evenly and hopefully slowly enough to get them at the diameter you need. It could be tricky, but may work. Just a random thought.
    Thank you for your thoughts. I may not have been sufficiently clear. I have made a quick TurboCad drawing of the metal parts that I am trying to appropriate. Inner diameter could be 3, 4, or 5cm. It seems to be difficult to identify an appropriate source.

    servicing the Rize central pivot-drawing1.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by adriano View Post
    Thank you for your thoughts. I may not have been sufficiently clear. I have made a quick TurboCad drawing of the metal parts that I am trying to appropriate. Inner diameter could be 3, 4, or 5cm. It seems to be difficult to identify an appropriate source.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    These metal parts, are you going to use these for installation?

  16. #16
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    well, yeah, the idea was to use it as the centerpiece of a bearing extraction/press tool...

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    Dont take this wrong.. Im not saying its great to be thorough or have the exact correct tool for the job (after all I have a $4500 snapon tool box with drawers full of specialty tools)..

    This is what I found to work best from my experiences with that bearing process..

    I used this "nut setter" for removal of the small diameter bearings (seat stays and shock links). Name:  577-61652.EPS.JPG
Views: 227
Size:  6.4 KB

    It may seem like a hack way of doing it.. but it worked flawlessly. After that retaining compound releases, the bearing comes out easy.

    I was also worried about installing the bearings prior to starting.. only to find out almost every bearing installed with nothing more than my fingers. The couple that didnt only took a light tap with a hammer, and I used a socket equal to the outside diameter of the bearing. My fingers did almost all the work. They simply dropped into place which is when I realized just how important that compound is.

    One that didnt go in easy was one of the seat stay bearings, because of overspray in the bearing cup. Once that was removed that bearing also installed with my fingers.

  18. #18
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    Hmmm... I had lots of trouble getting small bearings out of their cages - but that is my fault since the bearings were always "way beyond dead". Had I done the job in a more timely fashion, things might have been easier.

    Here comes a more precise drawing of the press tool that I am trying to construct:


    Name:  BearingExtactor.gif
Views: 224
Size:  13.3 KB

  19. #19
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    servicing the Rize central pivot

    Quote Originally Posted by adriano View Post
    Thank you for your thoughts. I may not have been sufficiently clear. I have made a quick TurboCad drawing of the metal parts that I am trying to appropriate. Inner diameter could be 3, 4, or 5cm. It seems to be difficult to identify an appropriate source.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Drawing1.jpg 
Views:	169 
Size:	21.1 KB 
ID:	790188
    I was thinking doing this and here are my thoughts on it:
    Keep the washers off the rest on the grinder, this will allow the washers to spin so they are ground evenly. Along the lines of a lathe, only in this case pieces are moving rather than just the part.
    You can adjust the OD to whatever you need by careful grinding. Washers of different sizes are easily available and a suitable ID should be easy to source.



    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

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    If you wanted to grind down those washers evenly without flatspots, put them on a length of threaded rod about 4-5 inches long, lock them in place at one end using nuts, then put the other end in a drill so you can spin the lot while grinding them.. kinda like a crude lathe

    Personally, when it comes to bearing removal / installation I would recommend investing in the right tools.. and I use the word 'invest' because as far as I'm concerned tools should be considered an investment.. not only will the right tool save you time, money and hassle but will also save your frame from potential damage when using DIY tools.. its also nice to be able to do the job safely with the confidence that you'll get it done right first time round.. and after you've used the tools once they have already paid for themselves, when you use them a second time you are now saving money.. and nine out of ten times the same tool can be used on different bikes as bearing sizes are pretty common across a lot of bikes..

    Most bearing removal tools are hideously expensive but check these out, they are relatively cheap and will remove and install bearings with the one tool..

    Superstar Components - High Spec Parts For Peanuts

    Rize bearings are 6800 and 6902 - both sizes taken care of with these tools..

    Now I'm not saying that DIYing a tool is a bad thing.. I've made a lot of DIY tools myself over the years and there is nothing like that Macguyver feeling when it all goes right..!!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
    If you wanted to grind down those washers evenly without flatspots, put them on a length of threaded rod about 4-5 inches long, lock them in place at one end using nuts, then put the other end in a drill so you can spin the lot while grinding them.. kinda like a crude lathe

    Personally, when it comes to bearing removal / installation I would recommend investing in the right tools.. and I use the word 'invest' because as far as I'm concerned tools should be considered an investment.. not only will the right tool save you time, money and hassle but will also save your frame from potential damage when using DIY tools.. its also nice to be able to do the job safely with the confidence that you'll get it done right first time round.. and after you've used the tools once they have already paid for themselves, when you use them a second time you are now saving money.. and nine out of ten times the same tool can be used on different bikes as bearing sizes are pretty common across a lot of bikes..

    Most bearing removal tools are hideously expensive but check these out, they are relatively cheap and will remove and install bearings with the one tool..

    Superstar Components - High Spec Parts For Peanuts

    Rize bearings are 6800 and 6902 - both sizes taken care of with these tools..

    Now I'm not saying that DIYing a tool is a bad thing.. I've made a lot of DIY tools myself over the years and there is nothing like that Macguyver feeling when it all goes right..!!
    those lil bearing tools look sweet!
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
    '11 Cannondale RZ 120-two

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
    Most bearing removal tools are hideously expensive but check these out, they are relatively cheap and will remove and install bearings with the one tool..

    Superstar Components - High Spec Parts For Peanuts
    Thanks! I have just ordered them. From the picture it's not entirely clear to me how to use them to extract the suspension bearings - but I guess that things will become self-explanatory once I have the tools in my hands.

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    Yep, compared to other tools they really are cheap, but good quality and very well made.. not a disposable tool by any means..

    They also do a nice BB30 press tool as well.. cheaper than other BB30 presses out there..

    If you click on the link I've posted... have a look just under the description of the tool... there is a link in Bold writing.. it brings you to a very helpful colour PDF that explains exactly how the tool works both for extraction and installation..

    Hope that helps....
    The names have been changed to protect the innocent...

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    Re: servicing the Rize central pivot

    I ordered the tool on Sunday. It arrived on Tuesday to my home (Switzerland). And I didn't even choose expedited delivery. Amazing service!!!

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    Happy days..

    With the right tools, bearing extraction really is simple and easy, even press fit bearings will slide in and out with ease, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about..

    FYI when changing bearings, in any application - when you feel the bearing start to develop play / excesive wear, don't wait to long before changing them.. If you do and they get really loose, when you go to extract them there is a big possibility that the inner and outer races will separate, leaving the outer race stuck in the bearing bore.. this can be a real pain in the ass & a lot harder to remove.. it will require a blind hole bearing buller or similar tool to extract it which are much more expensive than the tool I've linked to above..

    Superstar have a blind hole bearing puller in their inventory, and again, its a lot cheaper than the most of the competition..

    There are lots of bearing pullers out there, in my experience I'd avoid the 2 - 3 expanding arm pullers and go for one with expanding collets as they do a much better job of gripping the bearing..

    A little bit of heat always helps too.. use a heat gun (like a super strong hair dryer, but it will melt your hair!) rather than a naked flame from a torch etc.. get it good and hot and then pull the bearing.. never fails any time I've used this method..
    The names have been changed to protect the innocent...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post

    A little bit of heat always helps too.. use a heat gun
    That is a bit counter-intuitive for the press-fit main pivot bearings. Heat will cause the parts to expand, tightening the interface between the bearing and bore. If anything, you'd want to freeze the parts for easier extraction/assembly.

    However, for the glued-in bearings in the other pivots, heat is essential for removal.
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
    '11 Cannondale RZ 120-two

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    I am wondering what is the heat tolerance for carbon composite (rize chainstay bearing cage)...

  29. #29
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    I know, it may sound counter intuitive but if you have two different metals, the frame being aluminium and the bearing being steel, they will expand at different rates, aluminium being the softer metal it will expand quicker than steel..

    The tolerances for a press fit bearing are so tight that even .001" difference will help..

    Honestly, I am speaking from experience.. I have done this procedure many many times over the years, not just on bearings but on seized seatposts, old rusted seized nuts / bolts etc..
    The names have been changed to protect the innocent...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriano View Post
    I am wondering what is the heat tolerance for carbon composite (rize chainstay bearing cage)...
    IIRC, the bearing bores are aluminum - only the stanchions are carbon.
    I think the instruction PDF and/or the thread you were linked to suggests the correct temp range for seatstay bearing extraction. Basically, you want it just hot enough to weaken the loctite bond.
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
    '11 Cannondale RZ 120-two

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriano View Post
    I am wondering what is the heat tolerance for carbon composite (rize chainstay bearing cage)...
    I'm not too sure, that's why I would use a heat gun and not a naked flame.. I've done it on my own Rize twice and never had an issue..

    One way to contain the heat is to wrap a wet rag around the area you don't want heated..

    An old welders trick is to use a potatoe..!
    The names have been changed to protect the innocent...

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
    I know, it may sound counter intuitive but if you have two different metals, the frame being aluminium and the bearing being steel, they will expand at different rates, aluminium being the softer metal it will expand quicker than steel..

    The tolerances for a press fit bearing are so tight that even .001" difference will help..

    Honestly, I am speaking from experience.. I have done this procedure many many times over the years, not just on bearings but on seized seatposts, old rusted seized nuts / bolts etc..
    Yeah, I've used heat on siezed/rusted fasteners, as well. The idea being to break/weaken the bond between the two parts through expansion/contraction.

    For press-fit bearings/bushings, etc., I have heard of folks freezing the parts to create more clearance via contraction of the materials and thereby facilitate easy removal/assembly. I would not heat them, unless I thought there was a bonding agent (rust, epoxy, etc.) that could be defeated by doing so.

    But you have been there and done it - with success, so I defer to your judgment!
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
    '11 Cannondale RZ 120-two

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac the Knife View Post
    Superstar have a blind hole bearing puller in their inventory, and again, its a lot cheaper than the most of the competition..
    It didn't escape my attention! And since it was such a good deal, I ordered it as well. Not that I would need it for now, but it is likely to become handy at some point in the future.

    Problem is, it isn't at all clear to me how to use the blind-hole puller - and there appears to be no explanatory PDF as for the other tools. Mac, would you care to make a little drawing, photograph it with your phone, and attach it to your next post (I know, I am asking for a lot of favors...)

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    No problem.. its really very straight forward..

    You have a slide hammer - the big silver thing

    8 Expanding collets - the black things

    Pick the right sized collet for the bearing you want to 'pull'

    Screw the collet onto the end of the slide hammer..

    Expand the collet in the bearing so its got a good grip on it..

    Then whack it out..!

    Simple as that..

    Even better, why not look at a video how the tool is used

    The guys at RWC / Enduro removing and installing a bearing

    Enduro Bearings Hub Bearing Installation using Bearing Press - YouTube

    And s step by step guide here..

    Blind Cartridge Bearing Puller Tool from Real World Cycling

    Oh and congratulations on a very wise investment, I have one just like it and it has saved me many times.. and despite the price, the tool has now paid for itself multiple times over.. every bike mechanic should have one.. you can do nearly every bearing size that you find on a bike with it..
    The names have been changed to protect the innocent...

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    Here's a video that gives a very good explanation of the blind hole puller and the use of heat to remove a bearing..

    Note how little heat is actually required to get the job done..

    Its not a bicycle but the method is exactly the same..

    2-stroke dirtbike motocross transmission crankshaft blind bearing removal tool - YouTube
    The names have been changed to protect the innocent...

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