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  1. #1
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    To Rush or to Rize?

    Need help, in the market for a new Fs bike presently have a demo Rize which I have to say have enjoyed my 3 hr ride onto today. The purpose of the bike will be predominantly used as a endurance race bike. And with the wgts of todays bikes it truely opens up a gigantic world of options!! without the weight penalties between travel variances.

    What I want to know is who has riden both bikes and can then make an honest option to the differences btw the 2, apart from the obvious differences in travel. I am around 5.10 in height and weigh around 170lbs

    cheers
    Jas

  2. #2
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    I had Rush(with lefty) for 2 years, and now I have Rize (with Fox float RL) for two month now. I like both bikes. Rush is a bit better climber, not that Rize is bad in going uphill. Downhill Rize is a blast, much better than Rush. They both weight almost the same (i Had Rush 5 that was about 13kg and now have Rize 4 that is 13 kg). Rush may be better for racing, but I like Rize much better as all-round bike. I do everething With Rize that I used to do with Rush (50-80 km with 1000-1500 m of ascent with no problems), but going downhill is much better on Rize. I find stock Schwalbe tires very fast.

  3. #3
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    Same here, although the Rush has a more robust (and heavier) front triangle. The frame weight for the Rush is around 350g heavier than the Rize, and is likely more durable (I have now heard of 2 cracked Rize carbons, but not heard of any Rush carbon frames cracking, but then again, as a shorter travel bike, perhaps they aren't ridden in the same way as the Rize). I would tend toward the Rush if you are doing more non-technical or semi-technical singletrack, and the Rize would be a better bike for more aggressive trails. The more time I spend on the Rize, the more I feel that it doesn't quite have the snappiness of my Rush 1 last year, but still isn't too sluggish, and definitely has that extra inch of travel that makes mistakes easier to recover from (although the Rush is really no slouch on the trail: more of a short-travel trail bike (like a Ventana El Salt) than a full-on XC bike. Rize is definitely a better descender.

    I would say it is a toss-up, although I would be a bit cautious of the Rize carbon frames, until durability is determined. It is a pretty light layup, and maybe a bit fragile if you are riding hard and pushing your limits on techy trails. Having seen cutouts of both, the Rize looks to be about 1/2 of the wall thickness in the front triangle as the Rush. Alloy Rush seems like a good bet though, although having ridden it next to a Ventana El Ciclon, I would take the Ventana any day (although the complete Rize 4 can be had at the same cost of the El Ciclon, so it isn't really a fair comparison).

    I loved my Rush last year: perhaps the best 4" trailbike on the market right now. The front triangle is super stiff, and combined with the 110 Lefty and 24lb weight, is pretty hard to beat.

  4. #4
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    I haven't ridden any of those, only the Prophet for 3 years.

    I would like to inform you of the tests from Europes biggest mtb-mag, german Bike. www.bike-magazin.de They measure the stiffness of the frames on the bikes they test, and also draw som graphs showing how much travel you get compared to the force needed.

    The Rush and the Prophet have very low values for stiffness and stiffness-to-weight ratio, even if they are light frames. The Rize have much higher values.

    The list: frame weight, Medium (without shock) - frame stiffness - stiffness to weight ratio
    Rush Alu - 2540 - 42,9 - 16,8
    Prophet (alu) - 2450 - 43,8 - 15,7
    Rize carbon - 2250 gr - 68,4 - 27,0
    Rize Alu - not yet tested!

    That is the theoretical part - ride both on your favourite trail and buy the one you like the most!

    Reference to Bike, use Babelfish at Yahoo to translate:
    Rush test
    Prophet test

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by daktari
    I haven't ridden any of those, only the Prophet for 3 years.

    I would like to inform you of the tests from Europes biggest mtb-mag, german Bike. www.bike-magazin.de They measure the stiffness of the frames on the bikes they test, and also draw som graphs showing how much travel you get compared to the force needed.

    The Rush and the Prophet have very low values for stiffness and stiffness-to-weight ratio, even if they are light frames. The Rize have much higher values.

    The list: frame weight, Medium (without shock) - frame stiffness - stiffness to weight ratio
    Rush Alu - 2540 - 42,9 - 16,8
    Prophet (alu) - 2450 - 43,8 - 15,7
    Rize carbon - 2250 gr - 68,4 - 27,0
    Rize Alu - not yet tested!

    That is the theoretical part - ride both on your favourite trail and buy the one you like the most!

    Reference to Bike, use Babelfish at Yahoo to translate:
    Rush test
    Prophet test
    Yeah, I have seen those tests on the road bike side-it seems that the Germans need to quantify everything in terms of numbers, even though those numbers tend to be more or less worthless. Measuring stiffness on a lateral plane with a frame attached to a jig tells you nothing about actual forces that are induced by a rider on a trail. Basically, by their numbers, the lightest frame that is laterally stiffest is best: nothing about handling, suspension action, ride quality, or any other non-measurable value that really matters. With road bikes, they always give the best values to light, stiff bikes, which incidentally, seem to ride like crap. But hey, the numbers are good: must be a great bike! If theoretical stiffness to weight ratio was all that mattered in bike design, then it would be pretty straightforward to build a good bike, right?

    The pivots are smaller on the Rize than on the Rush, which may have something to do with the Rush feeling stiffer laterally.

  6. #6
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    double post...

  7. #7
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    Well, the measurmements is one part of the test, the other more important part is the functional test where they ride the bike. The latter part is the one they base most of the conclusion on.

    On my Prophet, you can easily see how the swingarm moves 1 cm laterally to either side of the seatpost when pedalling. It feels terribly slow pedaling on fireroads etc. On slow, technical singletrack in the granny ring, the issue has not bothered me a bit.

    Geometry/seating will also play a role in a bike feeling snappy or not.

  8. #8
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    I have ridden a Rize 1 and at 11.25kgs man it was light for a 5 inch travel bike, downhill just close your eyes and put it in the big ring, although it did feel sluggish on fire trails and flat single track. suspension set up was pretty good for a demo although the fox lefty felt too heavily sprung for me and was unable/unwilling to pull the fork apart and adjust the preload to achieve the correct settings.

    This week I have got my hands on a Rush to demo so hopefully that should help with the decision.

    Some one has also thrown me the BMC Trailfox as an option, as at the moment their prices have been dropped to encourage further exposure in the market as they are not a well known MTB brand here in Australia!! A little research into the BMC suggests it looks very much like a Giant Trance and if that is the case the Trance down here is stupidly cheap at the moment on clearance of 08 models for around $3300 Australian. WHich for a bike weighin 11.5 kgs and specced with XTR/XT, crossmax Sl wheels and rock shox rebas makes it pretty had to compete with.

    We love choices but **** we get confused with too many options!!!!!

  9. #9
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    Upgrading the main pivot bearing

    the OEM bearings in Rize, Rush, Prophet .... are of the lowest quality and cost around a US dollar each. Try upgrading to much higher quality japanese or european 6902 bearings (which may cost up to $100 dollar each) for heavy duty machines. The frame stiffness differences will become less apparent.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by quiggs1974
    I have ridden a Rize 1 and at 11.25kgs man it was light for a 5 inch travel bike, downhill just close your eyes and put it in the big ring, although it did feel sluggish on fire trails and flat single track. suspension set up was pretty good for a demo although the fox lefty felt too heavily sprung for me and was unable/unwilling to pull the fork apart and adjust the preload to achieve the correct settings.

    This week I have got my hands on a Rush to demo so hopefully that should help with the decision.

    Some one has also thrown me the BMC Trailfox as an option, as at the moment their prices have been dropped to encourage further exposure in the market as they are not a well known MTB brand here in Australia!! A little research into the BMC suggests it looks very much like a Giant Trance and if that is the case the Trance down here is stupidly cheap at the moment on clearance of 08 models for around $3300 Australian. WHich for a bike weighin 11.5 kgs and specced with XTR/XT, crossmax Sl wheels and rock shox rebas makes it pretty had to compete with.

    We love choices but **** we get confused with too many options!!!!!
    Even though we sell Cannondale and not Giant, it is very hard to be a Trance, especially a well-equipped Trance X. That is probably my favorite production 26" production full suspension: just a very well rounded, great do-everything bike!

  11. #11
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    Jas.. noticed you are an Aussie from your prior post .. As much as I love my RUSH I'd think twice about buying a cannondale down under. They are just so over priced.. and considering the good aussie dollar against the green back at the mo they probably shouldn't be.

    I was in a bike shop on the weekend and still can't believe what they are asking for Cannondale MTB's... even a low spec F4 is around 3k.

    I was lucky enough to buy mine from the US on a trip a few years ago and I use the bike for XC and marathon racing .. its just a great all rounder.. I'd love to upgrade it for a carbon with an SL lefty (mine is a rush 2000 from the first model year speced up to full XTR with crossmax slr) but I could buy a top of the line giant for the price it would cost in Oz to get a frame and fork and have change left over.

    The RUSH is the longest I've ever owned the same bike .. and I dread the day anything irrepairable happens to the fork or frame cause then I'd be faced with the decision to give in and pay the premium Oz dealers charge for owning a Cannondale OR buy the sensible, reliable and cost effective GIANT.. I hope the day never comes

    If price is no object .. Go the RUSH !

  12. #12
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    Bretski, you r so right!

    I think finances will become a large part of the decision, particularly if in riding the 2 bikes there is little between them. I am just wanting to have a bike that is a little dofferent to everyone else in the crowd, as giant bikes a like bums everyone has one!!

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