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  1. #1
    pagbilao quezon
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    PROPHET adjustable geometry, works??

    Guys,
    Im planning to get a prophet 4 (just waiting for 08 model so 07 price will go down), my question is can you really feel the difference if you adjust the geometry? is this not just a marketing hype?

    how different is this from the adjustabilty of BIONICON? i dont know the bike but it raved some good reviews

    what is the main difference between a LEFTY TPC vs. max fluid flow? is it worth the price?

    thanks
    -zackde NJ
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  2. #2
    discombobulated SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by zackde
    Guys,
    Im planning to get a prophet 4 (just waiting for 08 model so 07 price will go down), my question is can you really feel the difference if you adjust the geometry? is this not just a marketing hype?

    how different is this from the adjustabilty of BIONICON? i dont know the bike but it raved some good reviews

    what is the main difference between a LEFTY TPC vs. max fluid flow? is it worth the price?

    thanks
    -zackde NJ
    Yes you can feel the difference ! The difference from the Bionicon is that you have to stop and unbolt the shock to reposition it...

    TPC vs FFD...I dont know the technicals, but I am glad I upgraded..You truly can feel the difference on the small bumps with the TPC. Easier to tell since I rode a stock FFD for a year before upgrading...
    CDT

  3. #3
    mtbr member
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    Haven't tried FR mode yet

    I've been riding my prophet 800 for about 4 months in XC mode. I was going to a ski mountain on Sunday and thought about changing the setting for the downhills. Is the geometry change something you have to get used to? Do you have to re-adjust the shocks?

  4. #4
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
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    zackde: yes, you'll feel the difference. In FR, the bike gets lower, your weight moves toward the rear and the head angle makes it more stable, the fork eats big bumps better. Perfect to go fast like you typically do going downhill, easier to go down steep descent since your weight is now more over the rear wheel. In XC mode, the bike is more nervous and climbs better, your weight becomes more centered between both wheels. Perfect for trail and XC riding, great in twistier trails and climbs like a mountain goat.

    Bubba74: in FR mode, you'll sit lower and further back so your weight is more over the rear. If you go by sag and don't change the shock's setting, it's going to sag more, feel softer. I keep about the same setting in XC or FR since when going mostly downhill, I prefer the softer feel but prefer a stiffer feel when doing more XC rides. You'll have to get used to it a bit, especially in corners since your weight is less on the front wheel but it's not a radical change. Don't be afraid, it's there so give it a try.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  5. #5
    I just wanna go fast...
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    I love the handling prohphet in 67* HA mode, it makes you feel more secure on decents. That said, it drops the bottom bracket pretty low, and I've had to adjust to clipping my pedals on things quite a bit more than I'm used to (I mostly ride a long travel DH bike). I've also heard some sketchy rumors about bottoming out in slack HA mode and hitting the bottom bracket, but I've never had anything like that happen to me on a Large.

  6. #6
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    The difference between the two settings is massive; I was out for a weekend trip in Wales, day one the big 6km Afan climb was easy from a technical point of view )had to stop a couple of times to let the lungs catch up) switched to FR mode for the descent - perfect. Next day at Cwm Carn, realised on the big climb that I'd not got round to resetting it to XC and that is was to gritty to risk the on trail fork amd swing arm adjustment. Could'nt do it and pushed for most of the 6km climb! Stunning on the way down though Pologies for p1ss poor typing - i'm a tad squiffy at this point.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the info guys, soory to hijack the post zachde

    I think I'll give it a try for the mountain this weekend

  8. #8
    Like catnip for people
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Orange Prophet
    Pologies for p1ss poor typing - i'm a tad squiffy at this point.
    Not sure I'm familiar with being squiffy!

    Obv not it's intended purpose but I always get ground contact with my feet when in FR! (Going around tight turns, etc) and for that reason I no longer like it!

    (EDIT: Google is my friend... squiffy)


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  9. #9
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    I agree, the difference is huge. I didn't think moving it just that little bit would be that noticable. I started out in the xc setting. The first time I moved it to the FR setting when I went to a ski resort. Then I left it in FR when I went to Nam and now I'm hooked. In FR it decends and eats bumps so much better. In xc it climbs and sprints better but that isn't as much fun. I've put it in xc when I know it's not to technical and I want to be able to keep up with the faster guys but that isn't very often.

  10. #10
    Killer of Chains
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    I had mine in XC mode for about...oh...two rides.

    I came from a more of an urban/dj background so I just felt way more comfortable with slacker angles.

  11. #11
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    the FR mode is more fun and agree with the bike's conception (a 140 mm's bike) but the matter is that in FR mode the bottom bracket is not height enough for technic tracks, so i'm back on the XC...

  12. #12
    mtbr member
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    FR on an Prophet SL is just plain dangerous the BB is so low

  13. #13
    mtbkr
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    well i have it for 3 days now and im thrilled. switched to 69 the second day. i did over 50km (30 miles) so far. im only troubled wit pearl 2.1, i cant find the sweet spot. its either to stiff or to soft. and how extreme can i go with it? any experiences?
    i thought big air means a hard fart

  14. #14
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    yeah, it works really well, but i prefer my commencal supreme's adjustable angles way over my prophet's. you basically get the same shift in terms of angles, but on the commencal you screw a tube in the head tube 180 degrees around to do the swap, so i think it has less effect on bb height. it's easier since you only unsrew two bolts a little bit then twist the tube around, though the prohet isn't too much work either. hehe. though the designers of the prophet maybe did it like that due to different leverage ratios further into the swing fits better with freeriding than if it had stayed the same in the back with a commencal stuyle solution up front. come to think of it the head tube would get really nice and burly with the added width of the tube. hehe.

    did that make sense? knowing how it works and owning one might've left a bit too be desired in terms of explaining how commencals solution works.

  15. #15
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    Now that you've ridden it for a few days, it would be interesting to hear what you think of the Bionicon system if you can get on a demo somewhere. Two big differences. The bionicon's BB height doesn't change when you go from 68 - 74 degrees HT angle on the 6" travel Edison, or anywhere in between, and you can do it while moving or pedaling by pushing the button and leaning forward or back. I've had mine nearly three years and love it.
    http://www.bioniconusa.com - Bionicon USA
    http://otbmbc.com - Over the Bars MTB Club
    http://corbamtb.com - CORBA

  16. #16
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    I've never noticed the difference in BB height when I change my Prophet from xc to fr. Of course it is only about a half inch so I am not surprised. It's maybe why the bike feels so much more fluid in fr mode and fast in xc mode. A drop of just over a half inch is worth it for a bike with two distinct personalities. Its like having two bikes in one. I can climb the mountain in xc then switch to fr for the downhill. It's the best of both worlds.

  17. #17
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    Big difference in FR mode

    I made it back from the ski mountain without any broken bones, and and I can tell you that the difference is huge. I was definitely in a more upright position and oriented more over the rear tire. The bike felt much more more stable on rocky, steep terrain. In fact, I'm tempted to leave it this way I didn't notice the bb height difference either..

    Woodsguy: Do you switch the shock position on the trail? I thought about it, but I didn't know know if I needed to give the locktight time to set up...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba74
    Woodsguy: Do you switch the shock position on the trail? I thought about it, but I didn't know know if I needed to give the locktight time to set up...
    I have a few times on big mountain climbs or when the trail changes from very rocky to buff (or vise versa) for many miles. It only takes about a 30 secs so it can easily be incorperated into a rest break. I don't have locktight on the bolt that I undo to adjust the geometry and it has never come loose.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for the info Woodsguy. Yea, changing the bolt was a breeze.

    It was funny, I bought my 2006 Prophet used, and all the bolts on the bike were rediculiously tight. The shock mount bolt was so tight that there is a depression where the nut goes and the paint is gone, lol

    Anyway, I don't have a torque wrench, so I approximate using some old statics equations: t = rf. Torque = moment arm X force...Close enough I hope

  20. #20
    LA CHÈVRE
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    No need to re-apply loctite every time you change from one position to the next. Blue loctite will leave some traces on the threads that will do it's job for a few switches without risks.

    As for torque, tighten the bolt enough but like most bolts on a bike, don't go crazy and get your face red and your hand numb.

    In rocky trails, you notice the difference in BB height right away, I'm glad I have a bash ring when I'm in FR while I could do without in XC. If I were to always ride in FR, I would get used to the BB height and would ride accordingly but right after a switch, I finding myself very closer to the ground...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  21. #21
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    A word of warning for those using the FR setting for the first time:

    Be aware that your front tire pops up with much less effort.
    First time I tried FR setting, I went over a little drop and pulled up same as I always do, and practically flipped over backwards. Scared the crap out of me, but now I'm use to it and like it. Now I know how those professional free ride dudes you see on TV seem to pop/ride wheelies so easily!

    In general, I figured the adjustment was just marketing gimmick. How could such a small change matter i though! Even after reading about it here, I figured those that those who spoke of the difference were connoisseurs, and little old me wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
    It does make a big difference. Hey, it's like getting 2 bikes for the price of one - lol. Whether it's better or worse is a matter of conditions and rider preference. I've gotten use to the lower BB, and find I'm leaving it in FR mode most of the time now.
    '05 Prophet 1000
    '09 F3
    '93 Delta V 700
    '08 F6 Lefty (son's)
    '08 F6 (daughter's)

  22. #22
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    I'm going to have this try this free ride mode on mine. I never considered using it really. I thought it would make the bike harder to control on the technical single track. I came from an old '93 Delta V 900. That bike had an aggressive, leaned forward position.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  23. #23
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    just got back from ski slope too, gotta love ski lifts. first time going down with the Prophet, and first time in FR position, but I felt 100x more comfy than I did when I had my Trek Fuel. I also dropped my seat a bit and put back on my Maxxis High Rollers which I'm sure helped a lot. I only had a few spots I closed my eyes and hoped for the best.

    I'll put the seat back but leave it in FR for my regular rides at home and see how it feels.

  24. #24
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    Does this FR position put more stress on your knees?
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  25. #25
    LA CHÈVRE
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    If you drop the seat and leave it too low, maybe but the angles don't put more strain on the knees. I drop the seat for extended downhill sections but rais it back to the correct height as soon as there is some serious pedaling to do.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

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