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  1. #1
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    New question here. Prophet with 180mm fork

    Hello everyone,

    Looking to upgrade my prophet to ride some freeride when the surf is not good and thought ill ask the pros here before doing so..
    I have a lefty on it at the moment and I was thinking on upgrading to Rock Shock domain 318s. I was looking for the 302ís that have 160mm travel but no luck for a good price.

    Surface where I ride is rocky with small obstacles and rocks constantly in the way.


    Is this possible or will I destroy my ride..


    Thanks for reading yo all
    Last edited by zeroprophet; 03-08-2010 at 05:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    I ve been having the same question until recently when I saw a prophet running on 180 mm domain forks. They looked just fine, so I guess its doable. I m still not convinced so the questions that still remain unanswered are whether the forks put a lot of stress on the bikes frame and if you can use the bike for freerides as well...

    Feedback from someone who has actually tried this experiment would be truly appreciated!

  3. #3
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    I thought that the longest travel you could go on the front of a Prophet was 140mm which is what I have on my 2MX. If you went any bigger and there were problems with the frame due to the different head angle etc then it wouldn't be covered by the warranty.

  4. #4
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    Yea I know but I donít care about the warranty.
    Looking to upgrade the front end, if anyone has done an 160 or 180 please post hereÖ

  5. #5
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    the different head angle will provide the ground a higher leaverege agalnst the head angle therefore will be unsafe due to easier breakage.

  6. #6
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    The biggest fork for a 4X/MX frame is 160mm. Any more than that would be too much on the head tube. 140mm is the max for the standard prophet. It wouldn't just void the warranty it would be dangerous to ride. I would think a 7" fork on a 5.5" bike would be way too much slack to be useful any way?

  7. #7
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    I had a Prophet for a year or two with a 170mm Sherman, my freind has been running it on his Prophet since.(about two years). Another freind has a 180mm domain on his small Prophet. I'm sure he will chime in with pictures.

  8. #8
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    Do it. It will transform your prophet from a twitchy nervous endo waiting to happen into the true all mountain light freeride beast it was meant to be.
    Prophet with 180mm fork-100_0129.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-100_0143.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-100_0148.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-100_0160.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-100_0170.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-100_0186.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-100_0195.jpg

  9. #9
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    Had heard so much about prophetís turning into great freeride ridesÖ
    wow nice ride nankerphelge

    What fork suspension is that and how does it ride?

    Really stocked about doing the transformation

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    The bike that i saw running on the 180mm domain looked a lot like the one above. It looks like its ready to rumble! Nice one man.

    What type of forks do you have on nankerphelge?

  11. #11
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    It's a Manitou Sherman. It's a 170 mm fork that came stock on quite a few Geminis so it's perfect for the task. As wyatt said I've been running it for two years with no issues. I even used it for bikeparks & shuttles until I got a Perp. I'll try to find some pix of our buddies with the Domain. Even though the Domain has 10 mm more travel the Sherman rakes the bike out more because it's such a tall fork. I've run mine in both fr & xc modes with no probems although I prefer to run it in xc mode since it's been relegated to everyday trailbike duty. DISCLAIMER: You will exceed Cannondale's maximum axle to crown length. Not only will you void your warranty, but some people would even consider this dangerous. That being said, what do I care? I also run an eight inch rotor on the rear which Cannondale says you can't do either. Look at the second front triangle where Cannondale welds the small tube from the toptube to the headtube, That makes the headtube so strong I don't there will ever be any worries. Good Luck.

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    found on Pinkbike ;D sweet

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    Thanks for all the details nankerphelge and the security alert. Btw indeed that fork you used look very long but looks sweet especially with that stem.
    Some more pixs of your friends rides would be great and details on the headshock reducers used to much the fork tubes of the domain.

    I am really enjoying my prophet but I think for the style of riding that we do these small changes will help.

  14. #14
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    Wow what a beast ride Wiewior, not an AM ride anymore through

    I was just calculating the fork and frame tubes to see if they match and realized that I donít need a reducer just a headsetÖ I am correct?

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    http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/4563630/

    as him. He has to know sth about Prophet, headsets, and probably reducers.

  16. #16
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    170mm fork on a normal Prophet in the XC head angle position? Looks cool, and not to dis, but is your BB height approaching circus bike status?

  17. #17
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    I've had a few different forks on mine and beat on it pretty hard.

    For "freeride" or "light dh" or whatever, I found a 160 mm for about as tall as I'd want to go.

    I've rocked a Magura wotan, RS Lyrik, Revelation, the original lefty and a 36 float. The 36 Float so far has been my favorite. Even when hitting big jumps/drops or rough sections though, I like the way the bike feels with the fork set at ~140mm, that goes for the float too.

    If you go with something like a domain or totem, I would modify the internals (totally doable) to 160 mm max, maybe even lower if you can.


    Oh yeah- and just because some dude put a dual crown for on a prophet doesn't mean it was a good idea. These frames were never designed to have that much stress put on the head tube. You're safer going big on a 140 mm fork that won't cause your frame to break when you land than with a boxxer or full length totem up front, guaranteed.

  18. #18
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    I can't find a whole lot of good shots of the Domain.
    Prophet with 180mm fork-hpim6978.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-hpim6984.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-hpim7001.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-hpim7690.jpg
    Prophet with 180mm fork-hpim7359.jpg

  19. #19
    I just wanna go fast!
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    Are you running the domain at 160 or 180?

  20. #20
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    It's 180 straight off of a Perp. He rocks an extra small (petite) frame, too.

  21. #21
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    I also want to add one thing that people often forget. Lots of Prophets come with Lefties. The lefty is a Dual crown fork although a lot of people don't realize it or tend to forget it.

    Zero - no reducers needed. The fork has a 1.5 steerer tube.

    Altazo - I've never measured the bb height. It feels high, but not unmanagable. It feels like the bb height on a freeride bike.

  22. #22
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    Thanks for all you help nankerphelge much appreciated.
    Looking at the last prophet you posted made me think about changing the fork over again. I like my ride on the FR setting a lot, tons of maneuverability and control but I was looking for a fork that will absorb vibrations smoother and rake the bike a bit to give a freeride kick. Just from the look of this prophet I don’t get that feeling of maneuverability.. But then again you say it feels like the bb height on a freeride bike

    One last question man, how does your prophet feel on the FR setting and what headset did your friend use with the domains.

  23. #23
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    The first year and a half I had the big fork I rode in fr mode exclusively. The bike feels great and super raked in that mode. I just measured the bb in xc mode and it's thirteen and a half inches. I'm not sure what headset Mini uses, but his fork is also a 1.5 steerer tube.

  24. #24
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    Thanks nankerphelge...
    Will go ahead with the upgrade and will post pixs as soon as it is done
    Since my back wheel is kaput and the front will need replacement from the lefty hub a new wheel set is required. It will be a major upgrade!!!


    Anyone know what headset i will need for the domains

  25. #25
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    the bike on the pinkbike picture has the 4X replica Frame same axle to crown length as the gemini , only 40 mm different to the standard prophet

  26. #26
    I just wanna go fast!
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    Dude. you guys... It's a 5" trail bike.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen
    Dude. you guys... It's a 5" trail bike.
    No. A 4.7" stumpy or 5" motolite is a trail bike. The Prophet is a MEAN MACHINE, stuff of DREAMS like these guys are livin'.

  28. #28
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    I was just sayin. If you keep the geometry closer to stock, the bike will handle better and probably feel more stable off of jumps drops and rough sections.

    I rip mine with a 140mm fork in place of my DH bike sometimes. It kills it, and if I wanna sneak over to the DS track or go on a long trail ride it can do that too. If I were rocking a gnarly long fork and high bb height, I couldn't

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen
    If you keep the geometry closer to stock, the bike will handle better and probably feel more stable off of jumps drops and rough sections.

    Cannondale states that maximum fork length for a prophet 4x is 570mm and for the plane prophet is 530. Domain 180mm version is 565 and the 160mm is 545.
    Someone willing to ignore the difference of the tube reinforcement on the 4x this should be an upgrade tolerable by technical specs. Thatís what I came up with anyway..

    I know that the prophet is no DH bike, definitely no trail bike but a great do it all bike that would, in my opinion, benefit of some freeride kick

  30. #30
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    I just put a Totem 2-Step 180mm fork on a 2006 Prophet (Large frame size). The head tube angle came out to 65 degrees at rest in freeride mode when in 180mm travel. What everyone is forgetting is that with a 180mm fork, you should run 30-40mm of sag. The bike handles great for freeride type terrain. For long climbs, dropping down to 135mm makes it climb better than it did with the Lefty. No downsides! No comparison!

    Everyone worried about the frame needs to consider a bunch of factors, not just the fork travel. Do you weigh 150lb or 250lb? Gee, that might mean something in the context of frame durability, no? You worry about your bike, I'll worry about mine. Warranty? What Warranty?

    Show us a Prophet with a break caused by a fork with too much travel. If you broke your frame with a 160 or 180mm fork, it would have broken with any fork.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    I just put a Totem 2-Step 180mm fork on a 2006 Prophet (Large frame size). The head tube angle came out to 65 degrees at rest in freeride mode when in 180mm travel. What everyone is forgetting is that with a 180mm fork, you should run 30-40mm of sag. The bike handles great for freeride type terrain. For long climbs, dropping down to 135mm makes it climb better than it did with the Lefty. No downsides! No comparison!

    Everyone worried about the frame needs to consider a bunch of factors, not just the fork travel. Do you weigh 150lb or 250lb? Gee, that might mean something in the context of frame durability, no? You worry about your bike, I'll worry about mine. Warranty? What Warranty?

    Show us a Prophet with a break caused by a fork with too much travel. If you broke your frame with a 160 or 180mm fork, it would have broken with any fork.
    I've always said if I ever upgrade the totem on my Perp to a dual crown that I won't hesitate for minute to put the Totem on my Prophet. I've been rocking that Sherman for over two years and I weigh 210. Warranty Schmorranty.

    When my Prophet had a lefty on it and I rode a Prophet with a big fork for the first time I knew I had to do it. When Mini rode mine he bought a Domain. I know of two other Prophet owners who have ridden mine that want to do it. It's almost impossible to go back once you try it.

    Pix of your Prophet rockin the 2-step Totem, please.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    I just put a Totem 2-Step 180mm fork on a 2006 Prophet (Large frame size). The head tube angle came out to 65 degrees at rest in freeride mode when in 180mm travel. What everyone is forgetting is that with a 180mm fork, you should run 30-40mm of sag. The bike handles great for freeride type terrain. For long climbs, dropping down to 135mm makes it climb better than it did with the Lefty. No downsides! No comparison!

    Everyone worried about the frame needs to consider a bunch of factors, not just the fork travel. Do you weigh 150lb or 250lb? Gee, that might mean something in the context of frame durability, no? You worry about your bike, I'll worry about mine. Warranty? What Warranty?

    Show us a Prophet with a break caused by a fork with too much travel. If you broke your frame with a 160 or 180mm fork, it would have broken with any fork.

    Any pictures to share then??

  33. #33
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    if you look at how the prophet was designed - in other words its curves and what not - you will quickly realize that it was never intnded as a 180mm slopestyle/fr rig. Sure, a lefty is a double crown with seriously massive outers, but that 4x with the boxxer on is prob the dumbest looking thing i've seen in a while and i sincerly hope that it was put on there as a joke. A boxxer puts a lot more stress on the headtube than a lefty ever will.

    that being said - if you dabble around in the woods at 10miles an hour, never leave the ground or don't find that your riding could benefit from some protective gear past a helmet - then by all means go rigth ahead and do whatever you want with your bike. The xs prophet as seen above did prob make the riding easier for that bloke as the bottom bracket got higher while it stayed slack - but there is just no way that the frame is designed to take the kind of riding a 180mm fork like the totem could cope with or the stress it would generate for the headtube (you would need an headset with a decent stack height prob to avoid the knobs hitting the downtube). Judgeing from the photos it doesn't really look like it is used as such though so all will prob be well - besides it looking somewhat stupid. Honestly though, 160mm forks comes in a lot of different ac heights and as long as you stay within say marz 66 160mm forks if you have a mx/4x frame (estra gussets - yes, they were put there for a reason..) or a fox 36 at best with a regular prophet frame things will prob be ok. A 180mm fork like the totem - it having the same ac-height as boxxer - is though a horrible idea and if you use the bike as the fork suggests you would prob be way better off getting another frame.

    besides, who the hel needs 170mm or even 180mm for general larking about in the woods or for mini dh? If you like more boing because it feels oh so comfortable as you roll along on all the big rough rocks - then nm, go right ahead - if you need the extra travel because you haul ass, forget about it. I run a 160mm fork on my moto and had a 160mm scott ransom prior to that - having then just sold my prophet - and there is very little holding me back with the 160mm set up. And i am dam n sure 10mm or 20mm more boing up front wont significantly make the ride better. In fact, i'm pretty sure it would be worse for 80-95% of the riding you could do with a prophet. I'm into and race dh and my overall question to this thread is this;

    why would you need - or even want - 180mm up front on a prohet?

    why you should consider it a bad idea:
    1) warrenty - meaning a clear indicator that it was not designed to be run with a 170 or 180mm fork
    2) rear suspension foul up: slacker angles and a higher bb means more front to the comparativly shorter back end of the bike - meaning you need to up the pressure to run at the same sag, meaning a harder working shock.
    3) more travel = higher, more sturdy crowns. Please look to #2 to see how that would be a problem
    4) longer wheel base (prob not an issue for everybody)
    5) climbing: unless you have a travel adjustable fork going up hill with the prophet will from now on suck
    6) flats: unless you have a travel adjustable fork going over flatter parts of the trails will not work as well as before unless you are going at mach3 (the slacker head angle will mean forces are going into the suspension that should in fact help the wheel slightly deflect and push over the rock or obstacle in your path
    6) downhill: higher handlebars - though that one is open for debate. For most dh uses a slacker prophet with a higher bb is a good idea - but the frame is not designed for it.
    7) the frame is not designed to be used as a 180f/160r minidh bike. There are bikes that a designed for this and they are often significantly different in geo and suspension set up (rear). Trying to make something something it is not rarely works out 100%.
    8) work on your technique. it will do a lot more for you than 10 or 20mm up front will ever do - especially in the 160mm range

    sorry about what some might consider a rant, but i just find the 180mm idea up front to be rather on the spectacular side of lousy. The prophet is a solid descender with 140mm or 160mm up front, so i just have a hard time seeing why 180 would strike anybody as good idea. You don't see anybody putting a 160mm fork on a dh bike to make it pedal better - or when Barel did in Canberra the geo of the bike was 100% identical to his bike set up with 200mm up front. That is not the case in this instance.

    happy trails

  34. #34
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    Its a little slack so I may toss a 650b in the rear

  35. #35
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    Wow, people really get their panties in a bunch about 180mm on a Prophet.

    The Prophet is not a DH bike by any stretch of the imagination, but people tend to forget that a Prophet with a 160 or 180mm fork in front and the stock 5.5 inches of travel in the rear would have RULED in downhill just ten years ago. Sure it can't DH like a new low BB DH bike with over 200mm of travel in front and even more in the rear, but it ain't bad, especially when you consider the climbing ability. I have a 1999 Boxxer on another bike of mine, and it only has 150mm of travel. That was the standard 10 years ago.

    A Totem two-step can be dropped with a dial on top of the crown from 180mm to 135mm for climbing or flats. I bought the Totem because it was cheap, knowing that I could run it in 135mm mode all the time if 180mm was a problem. Doesn't seem to be so far. If it sucks, I have another bike to swap it onto, so there is no loss, but honestly, the front end height difference between the Lefty and the Totem is small, and it is a positive thing. The Prophet was twitchy with the Lefty, it should be perfect with the Totem. I can always go back to the XC position on the shock and get the headtube angle right back to the 67.5 degree FR mode stock angle. Stay tuned.

    Again, show us a picture of a Prophet with a frame broken from fork stresses. I'm guessing none exist. Every frame has its breaking point, but unless you are dropping to flat from ten feet, I highly doubt you would ever break a Prophet.

    The goal of this bike is to excel on rides like the Enchilada and Amasa Back in Moab, with some SuperD racing thrown in. Some of the SuperD courses in the west really are DH courses from ten years ago, with a little climbing thrown in, and the Prophet should be great.

    I'll post a picture of the Prophet with the Totem, 8" rotors and 2.5" tires soon.

  36. #36
    I just wanna go fast!
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    DH bikes 10 years ago had retardedly high bottom brackets, couches for seats, steep head angles and long stems. They also cracked and broke a lot.

    Bikes have come a long way since then, and there's a reason why some things have changed.

    By your logic, you should also put like a 100mm stem on your prophet to go with your nice 10 year ago DH travel and your nice, 10 year ago DH bb height.

  37. #37
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    We need our own thread: Post Your Overforked Prophet.

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    hehe, since the general mood of the thread was "go right ahead, it is a great idea" i felt that i was important for somebody to state that it was perhaps not the best of ideas and state why. The whole point of such threads is to get both sides of the story hopefully from people who know what they are talking about so Joe Shcmoe Noodyville can make informed descisions. I never thought anybody said that whopty-do it will now be great dh bike - simply because it won't be. In fact, it will be nothing at all like a dh bike, if still be a capable descender. My main points is just that the bike will for most intended uses not ride any better with a 180mm and the frames function let alone strenght was not designed to cope with the riding a 180mm fork was supposed to accomodate. A 180mm fork is just simply not a trail fork. The big exception is a fork with travel adjustment, but i pretty clearly stated that such a fork would void a lot of my concerns for everything but the downhill part provided you don't ride at 180mm all the time. But again, if you need 180mm up front to haul as s downhill because you ride that fast and/or unsmooth (like me, though i can cope with 160mm) the prophet is prob not the best frame for you.

    and yes, there's a pretty massive difference between a lefty max 140mm fork and a totem at 180mm or a boxxer (same ac as a totem). And yes, a travel adjustable fork is not designed to be run in the lower position for the main part of the time as i believe and my experiences are that they simply do not function as well (less responsive due to preload). That opinion is one that prob not everybody agrees with, but oh well.

    at the end of the day what decides what parts a frame can take is not what it can handle without falling to pieces after the first ride, but what parts complements the geo and suspension design of the frame. Sure, you could beef up a Scalpel so the head tube could cope with 200mm up front, but the ride would still be shait. The suggest build here is not as ludicrous as that one, no, but still not the best of ideas imho. If you are happy, well great. I just wanted to make it abundantly clear that not everybody thought it to be such a great idea and state why since nobody else did. There's a reason there's 150mm xc bikes in the market now - mainly more boing feels nice and means you don't need to be as smooth - but that doesn't mean that say a scott genius should be used like the 150mm dh frames of yesteryear was. If anybody can ride a prophet with 200mm up front as hard as the fork suggest it should be ridden and get away with it, good for you, but just be a bit cautious recommending it to everybody else as the perfect solution and don't be surprised if somebody decides to call you on it And, as i said numerous times above, if you do not ride hard, your wheels never leave the ground for long and the reason you run 180mm up front is simply because you like more travel to make the ground smoother - go right ahead. The frame can prob take it, but don't expect the frame to function as well for what it is designed to do - AM larking about

    happy trails

  39. #39
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    Love this bike! Looks like its ready for action!

  40. #40
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    Here's mine with a 180 mm Marz 66. Stock Prophet with a Chris King headset. I've been running it for three years now and have had no problems. I would take this bike down most of the trails I bring my judge down.

    Later,

    T.


  41. #41
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    This little Prophet will handle most of the stuff I hit on my Judge. 180 mm Marzoch up front and a 2.25 stroked DHX in the rear.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/cannonda...61436386825410

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    Check out my big hit Prophet!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Prophet with 180mm fork-dsc00131.jpg  


  43. #43
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    give us a performance evaluation

  44. #44
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    Well, that picture was taken at the top of the LaSale Mountains in Utah (12,000 ft.). The start of the Porcupine Rim Trail. Up there most everyone rides big hit 6" / 7" travel bikes with a two ring set-up and a bash guard. The bike handled the chunky rocky stuff really well. Plenty of drops, jumps, and big rocks to ride off of. I used to worry about snapping the head tube, but like I said, I've been riding it for three years now and no issues.

  45. #45
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    This trail is 26 miles of downhill chunky rock. You have to be able to hit small 2 & 3 foot drops all day long. If you are running 160 mm travel with 30% sag you may be somewhat limited. Just sayin......I'm 215 lbs and this set-up works for me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Prophet with 180mm fork-dsc00179.jpg  


  46. #46
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    I did it. I started the "Post Your......." thread.

    Post Your Overforked Prophet

    Post 'em up.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by cannondale-tim
    This little Prophet will handle most of the stuff I hit on my Judge. 180 mm Marzoch up front and a 2.25 stroked DHX in the rear.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/cannonda...61436386825410
    Exactly what are the specs on your DHX? What is the eye to eye measurement, and what is the spring weight? Is 7.875x2.25 the correct shock length and stroke?

    Is anyone running a DHX Air on their Prophet?
    Last edited by honkinunit; 03-15-2010 at 08:57 AM.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit
    Exactly what are the specs on your DHX? What is the eye to eye measurement, and what is the spring weight? Is 7.875x2.25 the correct shock length and stroke?

    Is anyone running a DHX Air on their Prophet?
    Yes that's the correct length and stroke.

    I have seen DHX airs on prophets, they work well.

    I'm currently running a float RP23 on mine and it's pretty awesome too. I ride my prophet like a mini dh bike and the float can keep up.

  49. #49
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    the stroke the prophet was designed around is 50mm, but you could run 57mm just fine. The only problem is that the fr position can no longer be used as the rear wheel will hit the seat tube if you bottom out the shock. The travel increases from 140mm to the 150 to 160 range, not sure excactly how much you get. The swap would prob compliment a 160mm fork great as the fr setting would prob be to slack with that fork anyway - let alone with a 180mm fork...

    the dhx air shock is one crappy shock and should be avoided if possible. A tuned van r or dhx or a float rp2/3/23/boost valve bought with the compression and rebound settings (internal factory settings; 3 different rebound tunes and 3 different compression tunes avaliable) that compliments the frames' design will outperform the dhx air any day of the week. Yes, i have a dhx air and no i do not like it (though it is on a moto). The best shock i had on my prophet was a manitou evlover isx-1. As good as a swinger 3 way the shock the frame was designed around), but infinitely better due to the lack of spv Personally i would buy a 2010 rp23 boost valve and prob never regret it. Talk to mendoncyclesmith (craig) and he can prob get one for you with his usual impeccable service.

  50. #50
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    Yep, well said. The Prophets come stock with a 7.875 eye to eye x 2.00 stroke. Fox makes a 7.875 eye to eye with a 2.25 stroke. That's the one I'm using on my bike in the XC position. If you move it to the FR position using the 2.25 stroke, the back tire will rub the seat tube at full compression.

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