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  1. #1
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    Price check - left over '05 Scalpel 3000

    Just wondering what you guys think the price should be on a left over '05 Scalpel 3000, I found a dealer that has one and he wants $3700 + tax, down from the original $4499. I think he should go lower since this is last years model, or am I unreasonable for thinking this?

    Thanks!

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    It's not always about price.

    It might be a left over, though they did carry it on their books for a full season, they also have floor people to pay, insurance, phone bills, electric bills etc. If your a regular customer, I'm sure they'll take care of you in the future, when it comes time for tune ups, repairs, parts, etc. The spec' didn't change a whole lot from '05 to '06, I'd go back and let them know your serious and not just kicking tires, and get their best price, and if the come down a couple of dollars more, you should buy it. Sales people get peppered all the time by people "shopping" price, and right or wrong they can usually tell the serious buyers from the tire kickers. (All sales people, all industries)
    JMHO.

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    Do you have cash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobray
    Just wondering what you guys think the price should be on a left over '05 Scalpel 3000, I found a dealer that has one and he wants $3700 + tax, down from the original $4499. I think he should go lower since this is last years model, or am I unreasonable for thinking this?

    Thanks!
    Can you pay for it in full with cash or a check? If so, offer them $2,800.00. This probally won't work if you plan on using a credit card. If they refuse, say thank you, turn and walk away...but not to fast.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chaplain
    Can you pay for it in full with cash or a check? If so, offer them $2,800.00. This probally won't work if you plan on using a credit card. If they refuse, say thank you, turn and walk away...but not to fast.
    I was just going to lay praise upon RyderX for speaking what needed to be said. With all due respect, if everyone only thought of price, there would be no shops around for you to go to. Imagine if you will, ..... Your job consists of this, you are hired to put, say, $100,000 on your personal credit card (assuming you had the room), now for the first $50,000 you make say .25 or maybe even .30 cents on the dollar IF you are lucky. You get this return, just because you have this job, but the amount of return varies.You also must pay out around $15,000 to someone to "manage" you monthly bill payments, this means less money for you, again. The remaining $50,000, you receive nothing back on, but you have to get that money back to pay down your card, remember your paying interest too. You do receive it, but it takes a while, and whenever you get a check from your bosses, they say, well,... you only owe $50,000, so why should I give you a dime more? After all, all you have to do is carry this money on your credit card for a year. Sounds like a great job, with plenty cash left to take the wife to Tahiti in February right? How long would you put up with this? Just pay the extra few hundred, If everyone, sold everything at cost, what purpose is there for being open, and paying bills? So everyone can stand around and say, "wow, those guys were great, they never made a dime off of me, they were so cool, hey why is there a Starbucks where the bike shop used to be?".........Remember, you as a customer, are my boss, please don't be a Scrooge, particularly during the holidays, our kids like presents too= If the price is sooo important that you can only afford to pay cost on the spendiest bike in the shop, get a cheaper bike, or reconsider your spending, till you can better afford it! Sorry, caught me in the morning, I tend to be a bit defensive and crabby then= To the OP, RyderX is right, go back, ready to buy, and ask for a best price, but don't force their hand, you know you want it any way, right?

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    I guess you guys pay full sticker on cars, even when they are last year models? This is a full suspension bike that is a year old, and I have not had any use of it during its model year, and if I HAVE to sell it myself for any reason, will get killed compared to trying to sell an '06 that I can get for a decent price.

    Most dealers will take at least $500 off a Cannondale 3000, so what's an extra 300 for a out of date model? If the shop tried to sell it on Ebay (or if I did) it would take MUCH less anyways. Perhaps they should have dealt better with it during its model year or if they couldn't afford to carry it in thier inventory, or never ordered it. No reason they can't just special order these bikes when people want them. It's not my burden to take thier loss on an old model year bike! If anything I am helping them get rid of an expensive bike that no one seems to want and did not want for the entire year it was in thier inventory.

    On top of that I know this was a parts bike for them, they have a sponsered racer and everytime something would break they would pull it from this bike and re-order the part from Cannondale. Yep, makes me want to pay full price for it!!

    I have always supported my local bike shop and have paid full price for equiptment, tuneups, etc., etc., so I do support my local bike shops, thank you. So don't even say that I'm the reason for the starbucks going in where the bike shop used to be LOL
    Last edited by Cobray; 12-19-2005 at 10:24 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobray
    I guess you guys pay full sticker on cars, even when they are last year models? This is a full suspension bike that is a year old, and I have not had any use of it during its model year, and if I HAVE to sell it myself for any reason, will get killed compared to trying to sell an '06 that I can get for a decent price.

    Most dealers will take at least $500 off a Cannondale 3000, so what's an extra 300 for a out of date model? If the shop tried to sell it on Ebay (or if I did) it would take MUCH less anyways. Perhaps they should have dealt better with it during its model year or if they couldn't afford to carry it in thier inventory, or never ordered it. No reason they can't just special order these bikes when people want them. It's not my burden to take thier loss on an old model year bike! If anything I am helping them get rid of an expensive bike that no one seems to want and did not want for the entire year it was in thier inventory.

    On top of that I know this was a parts bike for them, they have a sponsered racer and everytime something would break they would pull it from this bike and re-order the part from Cannondale. Yep, makes me want to pay full price for it!!

    I have always supported my local bike shop and have paid full price for equiptment, tuneups, etc., etc., so I do support my local bike shops, thank you. So don't even say that I'm the reason for the starbucks going in where the bike shop used to be LOL
    I am in complete agreement with everything you said, 100%. I was taking issue with someones trying to play hard ball, offering cash at or around wholesale. You should pay less, and $800 off is a good deal. As was said, make like you're serious, and ask for a best price, then and there, maybe they'll cut a bit more. That's all, you're good, I should have been a bit clearer, go git it=

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobray
    I have always supported my local bike shop and have paid full price for equiptment, tuneups, etc., etc., so I do support my local bike shops, thank you. So don't even say that I'm the reason for the starbucks going in where the bike shop used to be LOL
    Are you in Chicago??? A starbucks did go in to where the shop used to be, however the shop expanded and moved next door taking out my old bar

    $800 of represents about an 18% discount.....You should do like they say, go in 100% ready to buy and get 'the best price' ....But remember someone shopping for a scalpel might look at those two bikes (prepared for the 06 MSRP) and lunge for that $800 discount...Then you wont have the bike OR the discount
    CDT

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    If you don't want to buy last years model at an ~18% discount, then don't. If you are confident you can buy an 06 at an 11% discount and would be more comfortable with that, then go right ahead.

    However I'd say a 20% discount ($3600) would be fair for the 05 model. Don't low ball the LBS. If you pay what they are asking or very close, you can develope a relationship, where by you don't even need to ask for a discount on parts you may want to buy from them in the future.

    Invest a little in the relationship - it will pay back later for sure.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobray
    If anything I am helping them get rid of an expensive bike that no one seems to want and did not want for the entire year it was in thier inventory.
    Whoo-boy, that's rich! Sure glad you're not one of my customers. Though wait a sec., maybe you are - you're name isn't Steve is it?
    With a few more "helpful" customers like you - you'll sure to be picking up some great bargains at their going out of business sale. Won't that be great!
    "The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule by fictitious miracles."
    John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, 1815

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobray
    Just wondering what you guys think the price should be on a left over '05 Scalpel 3000, I found a dealer that has one and he wants $3700 + tax, down from the original $4499. I think he should go lower since this is last years model, or am I unreasonable for thinking this?

    Thanks!
    FYI - At $3700 that Scalpel is within a few hundred dollars of the dealers cost.
    '06 Cannondale Cross
    '08 Cannondale Cross
    '08 Cannondale Scalpel Team
    '07 Cannondale SystemSix Team

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobray
    Just wondering what you guys think the price should be on a left over '05 Scalpel 3000, I found a dealer that has one and he wants $3700 + tax, down from the original $4499. I think he should go lower since this is last years model, or am I unreasonable for thinking this?

    Thanks!
    $3700.00 is a good price for a Scalpel 3000. No bike shop can let the bike go for 2800.00 as this a below cost. Bikes are not marked up like most retail items.

  12. #12
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    I payed $3500 cdn for a scalpel 2000 if I were you I would take the deal I was offered and quit wining

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    Quote Originally Posted by konajay
    I payed $3500 cdn for a scalpel 2000 if I were you I would take the deal I was offered and quit wining
    Which is a fair price. I'm pretty sure the Scalpel 2000 lists the same as the Rush 2000, and for 2006 that is $4,299. So $3500 is about 19% discount. Which saves your ~$800 and still provides a few hundred for the dealer.

    Also someone else mentioned about selling below cost. That is not cool, unless the manufacture has sold the bike to the dealer below cost. I haven't worked with Cannondale but I get the impression this isn't something they would do. Where as I know this is common practice at the end of year from Trek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NS2000X
    Which is a fair price. I'm pretty sure the Scalpel 2000 lists the same as the Rush 2000, and for 2006 that is $4,299. So $3500 is about 19% discount. Which saves your ~$800 and still provides a few hundred for the dealer.

    Also someone else mentioned about selling below cost. That is not cool, unless the manufacture has sold the bike to the dealer below cost. I haven't worked with Cannondale but I get the impression this isn't something they would do. Where as I know this is common practice at the end of year from Trek.
    O.K. Cobray,
    This is the Chaplain and I will not lead you a stray. Sounds like everyone on this list owns their own bike shop. I, on the otherhand am just a loyal patron and friend to more than one of the local LBS's around my town. Don't pay too much for this bike or you will be the shop's punk the rest of your days. When I said to offer $2,800 cash didn't mean you should expect to get the bike for that amount. Although, you just might depending on the shop owner's situation, especially at this time of year. It definately will show you are serious and ready to deal. Used as a parts bike uh? You are already a loyal customer? If that proprietor charges you more than $3,400 he is missing the chance of keeping you as a life long customer. Having a good LBS to go to cannot be beat and treating loyal customers right is what keeps the doors open. Merry Christmas one and all!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chaplain
    O.K. Cobray,
    This is the Chaplain and I will not lead you a stray. Sounds like everyone on this list owns their own bike shop. I, on the otherhand am just a loyal patron and friend to more than one of the local LBS's around my town. Don't pay too much for this bike or you will be the shop's punk the rest of your days. When I said to offer $2,800 cash didn't mean you should expect to get the bike for that amount. Although, you just might depending on the shop owner's situation, especially at this time of year. It definately will show you are serious and ready to deal. Used as a parts bike uh? You are already a loyal customer? If that proprietor charges you more than $3,400 he is missing the chance of keeping you as a life long customer. Having a good LBS to go to cannot be beat and treating loyal customers right is what keeps the doors open. Merry Christmas one and all!
    So if the parts that were taken off are replaced with the same, and no proprietary changes of note, took place, what possible difference does it make.Actually it means the parts are newer, so he should ask for more, by your thinking. All this sounds like a self agrandizing way of making yourself feel better for being cheap. If it's that big a deal that all your XTR was shipped in the last month compared to 6 months ago, I cannot figure out why. If the bike is all banged up you have a case for deeper discount, otherwise, it just sounds hollow. That said, do what you can live with yourself doing, and when you want something done last minute, before you go on vaction or something, don't be surprised if it proves difficult to get done. Merry Christmas, let's all understand, and get along, I don't want to be a jerk, but I don't want to be seen as a rip-off artist either!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    So if the parts that were taken off are replaced with the same, and no proprietary changes of note, took place, what possible difference does it make.Actually it means the parts are newer, so he should ask for more, by your thinking. All this sounds like a self agrandizing way of making yourself feel better for being cheap. If it's that big a deal that all your XTR was shipped in the last month compared to 6 months ago, I cannot figure out why. If the bike is all banged up you have a case for deeper discount, otherwise, it just sounds hollow. That said, do what you can live with yourself doing, and when you want something done last minute, before you go on vaction or something, don't be surprised if it proves difficult to get done. Merry Christmas, let's all understand, and get along, I don't want to be a jerk, but I don't want to be seen as a rip-off artist either!
    Dear Jack,
    No matter what parts were switched and replaced, that bike is no longer new from the factory and should not be sold as such. That would be dishonest. How does Cobray know for sure what he is getting. For all he knows the parts taken off for the race bike may have been put back on that bike after being used for racing, then cleaned up by a sharp shop guy. I don't recall calling anyone a rip-off artist and do not appreciate being called cheap. There is nothing wrong with trying to get the most for your money. I also realize a shop only stays open if it makes some profit. My LBS gave me a killer deal on a top of the line brand new bike years ago and the good feeling that came with that remains with me today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chaplain
    Dear Jack,
    No matter what parts were switched and replaced, that bike is no longer new from the factory and should not be sold as such. That would be dishonest. How does Cobray know for sure what he is getting. For all he knows the parts taken off for the race bike may have been put back on that bike after being used for racing, then cleaned up by a sharp shop guy. I don't recall calling anyone a rip-off artist and do not appreciate being called cheap. There is nothing wrong with trying to get the most for your money. I also realize a shop only stays open if it makes some profit. My LBS gave me a killer deal on a top of the line brand new bike years ago and the good feeling that came with that remains with me today.
    (Continued)....I have since made many purchases at the same shop that I could have made off the internet or other places for a lot less money. The shop owner jokingly refers to me as a silent partner in his business because of the purchases I have made since my "good deal". The referals I have made to my LBS have brought in a lot of sales to the shop as well. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get. Giving Cobray a good deal now could be an investment for that shop's future. By the way, is it your shop in question? Thank you for being a shop owner. It is obvious you are in it because you love biking.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chaplain
    (Continued)....I have since made many purchases at the same shop that I could have made off the internet or other places for a lot less money. The shop owner jokingly refers to me as a silent partner in his business because of the purchases I have made since my "good deal". The referals I have made to my LBS have brought in a lot of sales to the shop as well. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get. Giving Cobray a good deal now could be an investment for that shop's future. By the way, is it your shop in question? Thank you for being a shop owner. It is obvious you are in it because you love biking.
    First off, if a shop is honest, and therefore, worth doing business with in the first place, they would be able to elaborate in detail, any and all parts swaps, and as a smart consumer, cobray should know what he is buying, IE: oem xtr f der, should still be xtr, oem Marta SL should still be etc. If they hem haw, or can't exactly say, spend your bucks elsewhere. This is about a bike, which the buyer wants, which has not changed model year to the next, it's still the same bike, '06 being a different color. If he wants it, he should buy it, if he wants a better price, he should be commited to buying, when asking for said better price, if it is still no good, go buy it on ebay for less, and risk whatever risks there are out there. But to suggest that any shop owner should be obligated to give a buyer, employee purchase price, or even more off, just because the color changed, and to try various methods of achieving that end, does nothing except encourage customers to be the type of people that every shop hates to deal with. Yes I am a shop owner, no mine is not the one in question. I'm not trying to get into a protracted word battle here, it's just that a price is a price, and overall most other respondents feel the same. For the true deal seekers, there is ebay, but most of the arguements for a beeter deal here, are justy not sufficient to warrant a shop giving this guy a bike UNLESS THERE ARE THINGS WE DO NOT KNOW ABOUT! (dihonesty, downgraded parts, used parts etc) I apologize if you felt I was calling you names, it is not my intent, I'm actually a reallly nice guy. Peace, Happy Holidays.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    First off, if a shop is honest, and therefore, worth doing business with in the first place, they would be able to elaborate in detail, any and all parts swaps, and as a smart consumer, cobray should know what he is buying, IE: oem xtr f der, should still be xtr, oem Marta SL should still be etc. If they hem haw, or can't exactly say, spend your bucks elsewhere. This is about a bike, which the buyer wants, which has not changed model year to the next, it's still the same bike, '06 being a different color. If he wants it, he should buy it, if he wants a better price, he should be commited to buying, when asking for said better price, if it is still no good, go buy it on ebay for less, and risk whatever risks there are out there. But to suggest that any shop owner should be obligated to give a buyer, employee purchase price, or even more off, just because the color changed, and to try various methods of achieving that end, does nothing except encourage customers to be the type of people that every shop hates to deal with. Yes I am a shop owner, no mine is not the one in question. I'm not trying to get into a protracted word battle here, it's just that a price is a price, and overall most other respondents feel the same. For the true deal seekers, there is ebay, but most of the arguements for a beeter deal here, are justy not sufficient to warrant a shop giving this guy a bike UNLESS THERE ARE THINGS WE DO NOT KNOW ABOUT! (dihonesty, downgraded parts, used parts etc) I apologize if you felt I was calling you names, it is not my intent, I'm actually a reallly nice guy. Peace, Happy Holidays.
    Errr, the '06 Scalpel 3000 is not the same as the '05, most notably the 06 has the terralogic front fork....

    As far as using it for a parts bike, it's not the obvious things that I am afraid that they would swap for something different, but something I may not be able to see or weigh. I did see that they had the rear shock assembly apart because they needed a spare linkage part, can I be convinced that they used a 3000 linkage replacement part or one from a 1000 that may be heavier or less durable? What else may have been replaced? I really don't consider this a "new" bike and yes, it is last years news so that's why I am looking for the price I am.

    When looking at the 06 models (scalpel, rush) they wouldn't come off of MSRP one bit.
    Last edited by Cobray; 12-25-2005 at 09:36 PM.

  20. #20
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    Neither do we.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobray

    When looking at the 06 models (scalpel, rush) they wouldn't come off of MSRP one bit.
    The shop that I work for sticks to retail closely. It has been in business for 45 years, so something is right.

    Please understand that the markup on bikes is a FRACTION of what the markup on other items are.
    gfy

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobray
    Errr, the '06 Scalpel 3000 is not the same as the '05, most notably the 06 has the terralogic front fork....

    As far as using it for a parts bike, it's not the obvious things that I am afraid that they would swap for something different, but something I may not be able to see or weigh. I did see that they had the rear shock assembly apart because they needed a spare linkage part, can I be convinced that they used a 3000 linkage replacement part or one from a 1000 that may be heavier or less durable? What else may have been replaced? I really don't consider this a "new" bike and yes, it is last years news so that's why I am looking for the price I am.

    When looking at the 06 models (scalpel, rush) they wouldn't come off of MSRP one bit.
    Busted with my hand in the dummy jar! Yeah, those are upgrades, but of somewhat dubious value, depending on where you are looking at it from. Terralogic is all that and such, but I actually prefer the straight on plushness, instead of this silly on/off business, but, I'm not racing, and don't need every gram of energy for the big push, so to speak. (my 2 cents) Again, ask if they are all OEM to the model parts, if they don't know, or they aren't, you have a bargaining platform, in my shop, if a part is taken off, it's a given that they exact same goes back on, it's just the right way to do business! Good luck!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by damion
    The shop that I work for sticks to retail closely. It has been in business for 45 years, so something is right.

    Please understand that the markup on bikes is a FRACTION of what the markup on other items are.
    Would you pay MSRP for a 2005 car? Percentage-wise their markup is much less.
    If any retailer is able to get MSRP or more, more power to him. The driver here is the marketplace.

    A local Cannondale had several high end bikes on the floor for years because he refused to lower the price much at the end of the year. He had thousands tied into those bikes, sitting on his floor gathering dust. After five years he give in and cut the prices by 50% !

    I work in the retail industry, and we advise our store owners to price their products to meet demand. Sometimes they can get MSPR, other times they are better off taking a lose to get the products off the floor. What matters most is that they are making money in the end.

    Me personally, I would expect 15% - 20% off at the end of the year for a bike.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by eaglecat
    Would you pay MSRP for a 2005 car? Percentage-wise their markup is much less.
    If any retailer is able to get MSRP or more, more power to him. The driver here is the marketplace.

    A local Cannondale had several high end bikes on the floor for years because he refused to lower the price much at the end of the year. He had thousands tied into those bikes, sitting on his floor gathering dust. After five years he give in and cut the prices by 50% !

    I work in the retail industry, and we advise our store owners to price their products to meet demand. Sometimes they can get MSPR, other times they are better off taking a lose to get the products off the floor. What matters most is that they are making money in the end.

    Me personally, I would expect 15% - 20% off at the end of the year for a bike.
    They were willing to take $800(nice discount in my opinion!) off the first time he asked, no-one is suggesting that he should pay retail! =

  24. #24
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    I did not say that right.

    I was meaning to say that my shop rarely moves on the pricing for the upcoming model year.

    As far as an 05 bike goes, $800 of on a 05 model scalpel 3000 sounds like a great deal.
    gfy

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