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  1. #1
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    Post you RUSH 650B

    Finnaly,
    Here is my old 2008 Rush 4 converted to 650B. It feels like a complete different bike, feels like it was meant to be a 650B.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post you RUSH 650B-p9020231.jpg  

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    08 Rush 4 - 650B
    10 Synapse 5 Carbon

  2. #2
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    Nice. Is the swingarm X brace still in there?
    Less isn't MOAR

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob View Post
    Nice. Is the swingarm X brace still in there?
    You're right, no room for original brace. If i ever feel the need, it will make a new one and put it on the other side of the tabs but for now, i do not feel the difference with or without.
    08 Rush 4 - 650B
    10 Synapse 5 Carbon

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by surf418 View Post
    You're right, no room for original brace. If i ever feel the need, it will make a new one and put it on the other side of the tabs but for now, i do not feel the difference with or without.
    If you do make another brace for the other side of the tabs, make sure it doesn't contact the seat tube.

  5. #5
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    That has to be the nicest Rush I've seen.
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  6. #6
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    @Surf418: I'm thinking about to do the same with my 2007 rush 05. Are you happy with this wheelset? why? Is it an expensive transformation?

    thanks!

  7. #7
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    Does 650B help improve crankarm height ?
    And yes .....conversion costs please .
    Might be an alternative to a new bike .

  8. #8
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    about crankarm, the bike raise about 19 mm. (more or less the half of 1"1/2)

  9. #9
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    Mangarush: very happy with this choice. Hope Pro2 EVO+ Lefty SI hub+ Blunt SL+DT Swiss comp= a little less than $700.
    Yep, it raise the BB of 3/4" and it shows, no more rubbin.
    It definitely feels like a new bike once completed and it worth every dollars spent.
    Very satisfied of Pacenti Neo 2.1, great all-around tire.

    Do not hesitate, the Rush frame is a keeper. I love the low maintenance swing arm and also like the fact that's is "made in the USA".
    08 Rush 4 - 650B
    10 Synapse 5 Carbon

  10. #10
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    My 650b Carbon Rush on Pikes Peak this past summer. Ridden up from 6000ft to 12000ft to watch the auto hill climb.

    Stans 355 wheel conversion, DT hubs. I obtained a spare swingarm and removed the brace tabs. The 2.3 tire cleared the tabs, but I wanted a little more room.

    24.25lbs with NeoMoto 2.3s and 23.5lbs with Racing Ralphs

    The 650b wheels really improved the Rush. Better rollover, traction and no more pedal strikes. Still rails in the quick single track as the Rush always did. What a great trail bike it is now. If you have a Rush, this is a highly recommended and simple conversion, do it!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post you RUSH 650B-rush650bposersmall0.jpg  

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by superv43 View Post
    My 650b Carbon Rush on Pikes Peak this past summer.
    Very nice Super!
    Dug-Da-Goat

    Something changes at 12,000'
    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

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  12. #12
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    so a 2.3 neo moto will clear the rear if i go 650b on my RUSH?

    what do you guys recommend for aggressive single track riding with occasional jumps; a 2.1 or 2.3 neo moto?

  13. #13
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    i ride 2.1, got great traction on all-terrain, nice clearance on the swing arm.
    08 Rush 4 - 650B
    10 Synapse 5 Carbon

  14. #14
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    Nice bikes!
    Forks are for eating, Lefty's are for racing,

  15. #15
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    Nice bikes - I sooo want to do this
    '07 Rush Carbon 2

  16. #16
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    Cool bikes , it sure seems like it would rub the seat tube.
    Herbalastin'

  17. #17
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    Great bikes,
    I wonder if i can convert my caffeine 2009 hard tail to 650b....

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herb will heal the nation View Post
    Cool bikes , it sure seems like it would rub the seat tube.
    It may seems to you but it never does, not with my setup that's for sure.
    08 Rush 4 - 650B
    10 Synapse 5 Carbon

  19. #19
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    anybody getting tire rub on hard hits with neo moto 2.3s on the rear? I've got some rub back there and I'm wondering whether I perhaps have a shock that has too much travel, as I bought the bike second hand. It's not bad and it's only on pretty hard hits, but I don't want to get caught out there!

  20. #20
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    This is my 650b'd '08 Rush Carbon.

    I'm running the Quasi 2.0 rear and Neo 2.3 up front.
    Stans Crest rims, SuperComp 1.7 spokes, Stans 3.30 rear hub and generic Lefty front hub.
    I bought from probikesupply.com and they were fantastic to deal with (very good service, made shipping easy--I am in Canada). Great price, too. Highly recommended if you want to go with a Stans "No Tubes" build.

    Yes, I had to remove the brace. Yes, the 650b mod was an improvement. No, it's not perfect.

    I do love the increased BB height as I am striking my pedals far less. I also love that the bike is noticeably better at rolling over obstacles. But, the higher centre of gravity does make the bike feel different... I find it less "flowy" through the twisty stuff, steering feels a bit slower, and I find that downhill sections I am a bit less confident/relaxed.

    Still, though, overall it was a good switch and my Crossmax SLRs will be up for sale soon.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post you RUSH 650B-photo-1.jpg  

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  21. #21
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    Did you modify the shock with a travel reducer? I didn't think the monarchs did 1.75"

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    Did you modify the shock with a travel reducer? I didn't think the monarchs did 1.75"
    Sharp eye, my friend.

    I was running this bike with a Fox RPL until last fall when it decided to spew oil all over the place. I quickly got in touch with Push and they built me a Monarch RT with the proper 7.5 x 1.75 configuration. I've been very happy with the shock, still haven't rebuilt the RPL (though I should try to get around to that...).

    I'm running 2x9 +bash as well. 24/36 rings with an 11-34 cassette. The build is all 2007 XTR and the hollowgrams are also the non-SL version from 2007. I swapped frames as I needed a size L (my '07 was a M).

    I mention the gear ratios because I forgot to mention the other change with 650b... the granny gear feels like less of a granny gear. :P I still get up all the same climbs, though...perhaps more as a result of the increased traction of the 650b setup.

    If any of you reading this know anything about the Fox RLC lefty... please see my other post a few threads down!

  23. #23
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    650b conversion

    I'm wanting to convert my rush 1 carbon to a 650b. Have you noticed any problems with removing rear brace/bracket so the 650b can fit? Any loss in stability or risk of damage to the frame?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdale98 View Post
    I'm wanting to convert my rush 1 carbon to a 650b. Have you noticed any problems with removing rear brace/bracket so the 650b can fit? Any loss in stability or risk of damage to the frame?
    Sorry, uber late response...

    No. Lots of Rush owners have removed the brace and I've not heard of any troubles. I notice absolutely no difference with or without it.

  25. #25
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    Rush 97.5er?

    Hello,

    My first post here. I have an '06 Cdale Rush 800 (Al) size XL that I've upgraded quite a bit, and I've been seriously considering converting to 650b. The stock wheels need replacing anyway because they are worn out and keep coming out of true with my weight (210 lbs). I have a somewhat crazy idea, and that is to use a 29er up front, with reducer in Lefty of course, and use a 650b in the rear. Would this work and has anyone tried this? If so, are there any other changes required? I mostly ride cross country with nothing overly technical. Thanks

  26. #26
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    I would stick with 650b front and rear if you're going to convert. The rush is a fairly slack bike and I noticed a reasonably negative change in climbing ability when I added 20mm of travel (though axle to crown only changed like 15mm somehow). The front end started to get wandery but I'm learning to cope. I would think that the addition of another 1.2" or whatever it is in height will really make the bike floppy.

    I don't see why you _couldn't_ do a 975, but the value is pretty limited, especially when you consider how good the rush handles naturally. IMO, the slightly raised BB due to 650 wheels is a benefit on this bike, but front travel should really hover around 110-120mm, as the head angle is already at like 69*.

    Sidenote...how tall are you? These bikes are looooooooooong. XL has got to be what, 25.5" long? I had a large prophet before this and it was a nightmare...I'm 5'11" on a medium.

  27. #27
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    I noticed no room for 650b with rear swingarm brace. Has anyone found a problem to remove the brace?

  28. #28
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    Most people seem to have no issue removing the brace. I have an 06 which never had the brace and it's fine.

  29. #29
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    Thanks for the reply. Im an 6'4" with a 34" inseam, and yes, the Rush is very long. I also have a Sette Ace that I bought as a frame from Pricepoint, and it appears like the Ace is almost 2 inches shorter. Unfortunately the Ace's swingarm and Magura fork do not allow the clearance needed for 650b or I'd convert it instead.

    So would you say overall the conversion is a worthy investment for the Rush, or just stick to 26er? Still deciding between I9s or other brands.

  30. #30
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    Oh hell yes. I love my bike. I ride on the east coast so pedal strikes were a serious issue with two of my other bikes, but they haven't been apparent on the B/rush. The handling is similar, and with the right shock and setup, the clearance is fine for a Pacenti Neo-moto 2.3. I haven't tried the nobby nice 2.2, but that might be my next tire, if the pacentis become unobtanium (they are great great tires).

    The one thing I would suggest also considering is a custom tune for the shock. I had mine tuned by Vorsprung in Whistler, and the results were fantastic. My overdamped, stiff shock turned into a plush, controlled ride that gave good feedback but destroys roots. I'm running like 50 more PSI in the shock because the damping isn't as harsh anymore. That's more of a rush thing, and not a wheel thing.

    For wheels alone, I say go for it. The rush is every bit as capable as most bikes out there, handles great, and 4.3" of travel is a surprisingly effective tool for singletrack slaying.

  31. #31
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    ... and if we just ... My 650b'd Rush

    Here's mine. Had a chance to ride it most of the summer since I changed it over. The wheels really made a difference to me. The positives for me are no more pedal strikes, awesome traction (really like the Ra Ra's) and roll -ability.
    It was a 2006 frame so no brace to remove either.
    I was having so much fun on it that I decided to get some lights and cold weather gear and keep riding right into the winter!
    I snagged an RP23 off ebay, so that is the next upgrade.


  32. #32
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    This is precisely the reason why i finally bought an older 2006 rush. As soon as my wallet can recuperate from the hit it took after buying a new bike, im planning on building a 650b wheelset with Tune Hubs (in silver to match my lefty carbon) laced to a set of Stan's Archs or Flows. Im stoked.

    quick question though:

    Im not sure if the wheels will clear the front derailer without modification or replacement. Replacement would mean getting rid of my XT dual controls and would increase the cost of the upgrade and delay it as such. Nobody around here has a set of 650bs for me to do a simple test, so can anyone comment on what front derailer they are using and what the clearance is like?

  33. #33
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    The front derailleur is the one fault I can find with my conversion. The Rush is not an overly stiff frame, and it does flex under HARD pedaling inputs. My tires rub on the front derailleur when it flexes. I resolved this by dropping the derailleur further down on the seat tube, which all but eliminated the problem with my Pacenti 2.3s, but when I switched to nevegal 2.3s, the problem resurfaced. I reduced the low limit, which reduced rub from the tire, as well as some "cross chaining" issues I had with little ring/big cog setup. Now, I just deal with the occasional rub as it really only happens when I'm out of the saddle climbing something really hard, and the nevegals only come up in the winter/slick times, so when I'm racking up the miles in the summer I'll be back on the narrower pacenti neo motos.

    I have an LX front derailleur and XT shifter, aluminum mainframe, 2x9 (22 and 32t) setup. You shouldn't have to change your shifter if you change your derailleur, unless you go 10 speed, and even then you may be able to tune it right.

    I'm tempted by the thought of going 1x9 for simplicity's sake, but I like having a small and big chainring on this bike with the pivot height it has. I'll probably try and continue to fiddle with it until it rubs minimally, or just ignore it until I inevitably get the bug to try something else. I would ideally like to switch to a 24/36 setup, in order to get a wider selection of gears. I don't use the 22fx32rr unless I'm really dogging it.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    The front derailleur is the one fault I can find with my conversion.
    Thanks for the quick input!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    You shouldn't have to change your shifter if you change your derailleur, unless you go 10 speed, and even then you may be able to tune it right.
    I know, but i really dislike these dual controls. The idea behind them is great, but only being able to downshift while braking is just plain idiotic (i have an up spring rear derailer). Unless i find a reversed front and a normal rear, they might even get swapped out before i try 650b.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    I'm tempted by the thought of going 1x9 for simplicity's sake, but I like having a small and big chainring on this bike with the pivot height it has.
    I agree. There are no real big hills in Berlin, and even if i take the bike somewhere where there are hills, i like having a big chainring to spin in the city, and a small ring for the inevitable mud that occurs on my weekly ride.

    Is it as simple as adding the tire size to the rim size to measure how big your wheels are? I.e. 26 rim + 2.25 tire = rolling size of 28.25? And by the same means a 27.5 + 2.3 = 29.8? More importantly, to what extent does the rear travel move upwards and inwards? Do you think i could test a 700c wheel to simulate 650b?

  35. #35
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    My bike originally came with dual control, which I rode for a little bit but eventually ditched in favor of separate shifters for obvious reasons. I didn't hate them that much though, the movements are surprisingly separate and maintain some level of intuition, but separate shifters allow you to use better brakes or better shifters, so...duh.

    As for wheel size, the only accurate way to predict the size of the wheel is to measure it. I'm sure there are people in the 650b forum that can tell you the full diameter of a 650b wheel with xyz tire. 650b is not equal to 27.5, it's actually something like 27.1" or somesuch. It's not a giant gain in diameter, but it is noticeable and it works.

    For me, I had some rubbing issues between tire and seat tube with my initial, factory shock. I'm guessing that the stopper that shortens travel was compressing on bottom out. Since my shock was too firmly damped for my weight and for the frame, I ran very low pressure, and ended up bottoming out a lot. I have since purchased an RP23, sent it off to Vorsprung suspension in Canada for a custom tune and stroke reduction, and have not had a problem since.

    The tire does move up and forward, but not a lot, and with the correct shock, you shouldn't have a problem. The Rush is really a mid-pivot bike, the pivot is in line with the mid chainring, just about. It has to move rearward and upward before it starts to move forward, which happens when the rear axle hits that mid chainring height. It makes the rush one of the best climbing and accelerating bikes I've owned.

  36. #36
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    The only issue I had was with the front der. as well. I have an X9 setup. There is plenty of fore/aft room with the 27.5 rear RaRa, but the der would rub on the tire when it moved inboard to the small chainring. I just adjusted the stops so I don't access the small chainring.
    For my purposes I haven't missed the small chainring, so it has been a good solution for me.

  37. #37
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    I've had no issues with the front der (X9 with 2.1 Neo Moto's). The only "issue" I've found is riding in during freeze/thaw when the mud just sticks to the bike -- very little mud clearance. My experience was only from riding about 10 ft into the single track and turning right back around so as to avoid trail damage. Other than that, the 650b conversion for the Rush makes an already great bike a better one.
    2015 Trek Stache 7 SS
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  38. #38
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    Could some of you who made this conversion please post a picture with the rear end fully compressed (release the air from the shock and push the bike down), to show how much clearance there is between the rear tire and the seat tube at bottom out ?
    Please mention what tire you have mounted and if your shock is a standard (7.5x1.75" i.e 190x45mm) or modified to a shorter travel.

    Thank you !

  39. #39
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    here is mine....

    a bike that was truly meant for 650B





  40. #40
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    Have any of you that converted your rush tried different tires on your bikes? I'd like to stay with a 2.2-3 size tire, but it looks like my old neo motos might be getting tired. I really like the motos, but now there are the vigilantes, something funny sounding from schwalbe, and probably a few others. Have any of you tried them? Do they have clearance? Vigilantes have a cool tread pattern and are a minimum of $10 less expensive than the panacenti rampmotos.

    Universal Cycles -- WTB Vigilante TCS 650b Tire

  41. #41
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    FWIW, I've had RaRa 2.25s since I converted. I absolutely love them. I ride in the midwest in mostly dry conditions where they really shine. However, I was pleasantly surprised how well they have done in wet conditions. I have a set of NeoMotos for when the RaRas wear out.
    I've heard good stuff about the Neos so I'm looking forward to trying them.

  42. #42
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    Hi !

    HOT BIKE
    did you have any issue with the derailleur on lowest gear running a 650b wheel?
    I want to do the same, but Im afraid that there no clearance on the rear tire with the derailleur.... Any help will will be appreciated...

  43. #43
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    Hi


    did you have any issue with the derailleur on lowest gear running a 650b wheel?
    I want to do the same, but Im afraid that there no clearance on the rear tire with the derailleur.... Any help will will be appreciated...

  44. #44
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    Has anyone attempted to mount a RockShox Revelation 27.5 on their Rush with a 650B wheelset?

    I was looking at the 100mm fork for my 06 Rush 800.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louiepou View Post
    Hi


    did you have any issue with the derailleur on lowest gear running a 650b wheel?
    I want to do the same, but Im afraid that there no clearance on the rear tire with the derailleur.... Any help will will be appreciated...
    I do, depending on setup. With my 2.35 hans dampfs, which don't fit in the frame at all (rub at bottom out, rub on swingarm on turns), I get constant rub on the derailleur. With pacenti neo-motos, I don't get rub with my derailleur adjusted properyl. I don't get rub with nevegal 2.3s except on the hardest efforts.

    I used to love my front derailleur, but I may ditch it for a single, narrow wide 30t ring, and the rub is part of that, but you can get by if you don't mind slightly narrower tires.

    Quote Originally Posted by hondamxracer View Post
    Has anyone attempted to mount a RockShox Revelation 27.5 on their Rush with a 650B wheelset?

    I was looking at the 100mm fork for my 06 Rush 800.
    It shouldn't be a problem. I believe the rush has an almost exact 1.5" headtube, so a normal reducer headset will fit fine. That also means you can use a reducer top, external cup bottom to run a tapered headset if you want. You'll get a little more axle to crown, which will slacken the head angle slightly, but i don't think that's a terrible thing on this bike. I run a 130mm lefty and it feels pretty good, I give just a little up in the climbs but it corners better.

  46. #46
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    I noticed all the older Rush models, but was wondering if there were any 650b conversions to an RZ-120???
    Joe

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louiepou View Post
    ..did you have any issue with the derailleur on lowest gear running a 650b wheel?
    Not with the derailuer, but I had to add a 10mm spacer into my Rp23 to prevent the tire from hitting the seat tube. So I'm running 120mm in the front and 100mm in the rear.

    I agree with Sandwich, I tried to run a 130 Lefty Max (top photo) and the front end was just way too floppy. With the 120 Ultra I have a very fast response but it doesn't feel floppy. I like that I can adjust my line on a dime, but the responsiveness does take a bit of getting use to.

    Post you RUSH 650B-img_3710-web.jpg
    Post you RUSH 650B-img_4658w.jpg
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    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Not with the derailuer, but I had to add a 10mm spacer into my Rp23 to prevent the tire from hitting the seat tube. So I'm running 120mm in the front and 100mm in the rear.

    I agree with Sandwich, I tried to run a 130 Lefty Max (top photo) and the front end was just way too floppy. With the 120 Ultra I have a very fast response but it doesn't feel floppy. I like that I can adjust my line on a dime, but the responsiveness does take a bit of getting use to.
    man I am super jelly of your carbon frame. I keep looking for one, but apparently so is everybody else. The alloy frames are so damn cheap, too.

    Did you add a 10mm spacer, or reduce travel by 10mm? A 10mm spacer would shave an inch of travel off the frame...that would kind of suck. I haven't had noticeable bottoming issues on mine, except for with the huge HD 2.35s, and before when I had the poorly tuned factory shock. I'm hoping to add a volume spacer over the winter to further add bottoming resistance (and progressivity).

    Also, one of the reasons I like the longer fork is that the leftys do really well moving through travel. I probably run more sag than I should, but the fork just gobbles everything up, and doesn't seem to bottom. I need to do better about accurately measuring air pressure, but it does OK.

    I'm still trying to figure out the best way to corner on this bike. Some days it feels innate, natural, other days I feel like I'm fighting it. I'll keep searching.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    man I am super jelly of your carbon frame. I keep looking for one, but apparently so is everybody else. The alloy frames are so damn cheap, too.

    Did you add a 10mm spacer, or reduce travel by 10mm? A 10mm spacer would shave an inch of travel off the frame...that would kind of suck. I haven't had noticeable bottoming issues on mine, except for with the huge HD 2.35s, and before when I had the poorly tuned factory shock. I'm hoping to add a volume spacer over the winter to further add bottoming resistance (and progressivity).

    Also, one of the reasons I like the longer fork is that the leftys do really well moving through travel. I probably run more sag than I should, but the fork just gobbles everything up, and doesn't seem to bottom. I need to do better about accurately measuring air pressure, but it does OK.

    I'm still trying to figure out the best way to corner on this bike. Some days it feels innate, natural, other days I feel like I'm fighting it. I'll keep searching.
    Yeah, I got pretty lucky. I bought my 2007 Carbon Rush on Ebay about 2 years ago for $1800. It was basically new and the guy was selling it because it didn't fit him very well. He basically gave it away.

    Obviously I had to spend some money playing with it. SRAM Grip shifts and Deraileur, AC 650b Wheelset with DTSwiss 10mm rear hub. 120 Ultra Fork and a FSA Setback Seat Post and Crankset (after the Cannondale branded FSA one exploded). So in the end I put probably another $2K into it. I plan to PUSH the shock and the fork needs some "Mendon Love", but man, I'd never give up this bike at this point. It's that much fun!

    As for the shock, I put a 10mm spacer on the RP23 Shaft to limit the travel. It works well, but I'm sure when PUSH gets done with it, it will be that much better. I agree with you that the Lefty's are some of the finest forks made. Small bump compliance is like nothing else I've ever ridden and I've ridden a bunch of different forks (White Bros, Magura, Fox, Rock Shox, Spez). It seems so bottomless when you really rock it. I drop off a bunch of ledgy stuff here in the desert SW and the lefty just seems to soak it all up!!! I will always ride a Lefty... it's the way I roll!!!

    Good luck with the Carbon search Sandwich... they are out there!!! And you might want to keep an eye peeled for the old Orbea Occam.... very similar to the Rush but a little less slack so it might take a 130 MAX!!!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareagleguy View Post
    I noticed all the older Rush models, but was wondering if there were any 650b conversions to an RZ-120???
    Joe
    Hi Joe... you could B6'er an RZ, but I don't think the rear will take a 650b. B6'ing is pretty cool. I did my Titus Racer-X as a B6'er and I really dig the way that thing climbs. Something about the ability to roll over things up front and the drive you get from a fast accelerating 26'er in the rear just makes it seem so right. Obviously there were geometry issues with 96'ers, and that's why they never really caught on, but a B6'er is "dope" for the mountain!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Obviously I had to spend some money playing with it. SRAM Grip shifts and Deraileur, AC 650b Wheelset with DTSwiss 10mm rear hub. 120 Ultra Fork and a FSA Setback Seat Post and Crankset (after the Cannondale branded FSA one exploded). So in the end I put probably another $2K into it. I plan to PUSH the shock and the fork needs some "Mendon Love", but man, I'd never give up this bike at this point. It's that much fun!

    As for the shock, I put a 10mm spacer on the RP23 Shaft to limit the travel. It works well, but I'm sure when PUSH gets done with it, it will be that much better. I agree with you that the Lefty's are some of the finest forks made. Small bump compliance is like nothing else I've ever ridden and I've ridden a bunch of different forks (White Bros, Magura, Fox, Rock Shox, Spez). It seems so bottomless when you really rock it. I drop off a bunch of ledgy stuff here in the desert SW and the lefty just seems to soak it all up!!! I will always ride a Lefty... it's the way I roll!!!

    Good luck with the Carbon search Sandwich... they are out there!!! And you might want to keep an eye peeled for the old Orbea Occam.... very similar to the Rush but a little less slack so it might take a 130 MAX!!!
    Ooh, those orbeas are really nice, but if I were to buy a new bike, I'd probably sell the rush complete and pick up something else, like a Norco Sight/Range. I have no problems with the Rush, but those bikes are sweet.

    I have a bunch of money in mine too. Probably not as much as you, but I swapped the DLR2 for the Max 130 PBR, dropped the 117/deore combo for XT/blunt, and now king/i23, XTR rear, XT ice-tech brakes, protaper wide bars, and the integrated XC3 stem. I want new pedals and may drop the derailleur, but I like being able to shift the amount of anti-squat the bike has. It's a neat tool that I think is often overlooked by people. The neat thing about the rush frame is that the anti-squat curve is actually identical to a DW-linked Turner flux. I was messing around in linkage software and discovered that the curves are literally identical when in the same chainring. The leverage rate is way different, but I thought that was neat.

    Push should be able to do some good stuff to your shock. I had mine done by vorsprung in canada. He suggested I get an RP23 with a boost valve, which makes sense because the rush has a falling rate suspension. The boost valve kicks in and prevents the shock from dropping off. The small air can and further volume reduction should help even more, but the rush is really hindered by the factory tune on the shock. Mine would hit a bump, then absorb the landing. It was pretty awful, but I love the simplicity of the design.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    The neat thing about the rush frame is that the anti-squat curve is actually identical to a DW-linked Turner flux. I was messing around in linkage software and discovered that the curves are literally identical when in the same chainring. The leverage rate is way different, but I thought that was neat.

    Push should be able to do some good stuff to your shock. I had mine done by vorsprung in canada. He suggested I get an RP23 with a boost valve, which makes sense because the rush has a falling rate suspension. The boost valve kicks in and prevents the shock from dropping off. The small air can and further volume reduction should help even more, but the rush is really hindered by the factory tune on the shock. Mine would hit a bump, then absorb the landing. It was pretty awful, but I love the simplicity of the design.
    Thanks much Sandwich!!! Seems you have a good handle on the suspension. I'll make sure I share your thoughts with the guys at Push. I was thinking large can, but I'll go with your suggestions.

    I don't mind "driving" the suspension. To me it's easy to flip the platform on and off. I want to maintain a firm platform for climbing, but get better depth and smoothness at end of travel when I go "full float". In general I don't have issues with how it is box stock. it climbs great and just seems to claw up stuff. But I know it can be better!!!

    Thanks again for your insight!!!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Thanks much Sandwich!!! Seems you have a good handle on the suspension. I'll make sure I share your thoughts with the guys at Push. I was thinking large can, but I'll go with your suggestions.

    I don't mind "driving" the suspension. To me it's easy to flip the platform on and off. I want to maintain a firm platform for climbing, but get better depth and smoothness at end of travel when I go "full float". In general I don't have issues with how it is box stock. it climbs great and just seems to claw up stuff. But I know it can be better!!!

    Thanks again for your insight!!!
    Yeah dude, if you take a look at this:


    you can see what I'm talking about. The rush starts in the mid twos and falls up around 3.1. Most bikes do the opposite, starting at 3.1 and rising to 2.5 or so.



    In order to combat that, you have two options, one is to buy another bike (boo) the other is to do some shock magic. In order to get a "rising rate" out of your suspension, you need a spring rate that increases through travel (basically the smallest air can you can find) paired with a position-sensitive damper. Yeah, like those old fifth elements that everybody hates. Fox uses a "boost valve" that basically engages when you get to a certain point in the travel. Supposedly it makes other bikes feel harsh as it engages at inappropriate times and doesn't feel smooth. On a falling rate bike you can make it engage at the tail end (by setting the boost volume) and then adjust how much pressure you get, which is the boost pressure. It's not as good as having a rising rate suspension, but it will actually increase damping as you get into the boost valve area, which is perfect for what we want our shocks to do.

    A coil spring has a linear rate, and a large air can comes close as well, so you probably don't want that. PUSH should be able to set you straight, as they know what they're doing, but I know that they usually remove the boost valve (to retain a smoother stroke) so if yours has one, you may want to ask what they do.

    4.3" of travel is not a huge range for wacky stuff to happen, but you may as well extract everything you can out of there!

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    Wow, thanks again, that really explained it too me.... good stuff!!!

    I guess that's why I always felt the early-VPP was so "wallowy". It's because of the rising rate and the fact that the spring rate starts so high. Interesting!!!

    And I see what you are saying about the small can... try to flatten the spring rate out and make it feel more linear at end of stroke. That's what I meant by depth.
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    thanks!!! My RZ came with 2.5 tires and currently running 2.2 and just by eyeballing, it'd be a really tight fit to slide a 650b in the rear. Even if they fit, I'd have very little clearance...but, the flip side is I ride mostly well-drained trails so never really get muddy anyway. My desire to try 650b is lift up the BB some and better climbing traction from the rear using a 2.2 rear tire. I've ridden a few 29ers...its funny how much a slightly longer contact patch and slight increase of radius can help when grabbing roots and powering up smaller steps. The RZ is awesome and I'm super happy with it as a 26er, but to take it to 27.5er would be awesome-er!
    Joe


    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Hi Joe... you could B6'er an RZ, but I don't think the rear will take a 650b. B6'ing is pretty cool. I did my Titus Racer-X as a B6'er and I really dig the way that thing climbs. Something about the ability to roll over things up front and the drive you get from a fast accelerating 26'er in the rear just makes it seem so right. Obviously there were geometry issues with 96'ers, and that's why they never really caught on, but a B6'er is "dope" for the mountain!

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by wareagleguy View Post
    I'm super happy with it as a 26er, but to take it to 27.5er would be awesome-er!
    Joe
    I'd be comfortable telling you to slap a 650b on the front of that bike. I think you be at least 50% happier!!!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    I'd be comfortable telling you to slap a 650b on the front of that bike. I think you be at least 50% happier!!!


    The front fit on a Lefty is obvious...no doubt I'll move up to a 650b there! I'll see if I can borrow a 650b wheel from someone just to see if it will fit in the back without much mod. Will report back!
    Joe

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    Has anyone attempted to mount a RockShox Revelation 27.5 on their Rush with a 650B wheelset?


    I was looking at the 100mm fork for my 06 Rush 800.

    It shouldn't be a problem. I believe the rush has an almost exact 1.5" headtube, so a normal reducer headset will fit fine. That also means you can use a reducer top, external cup bottom to run a tapered headset if you want. You'll get a little more axle to crown, which will slacken the head angle slightly, but i don't think that's a terrible thing on this bike. I run a 130mm lefty and it feels pretty good, I give just a little up in the climbs but it corners better.
    Is this what you are referring to for a reducer?

    Post you RUSH 650B-cdalereducerhs1_l.jpgPost you RUSH 650B-hshs3.jpg

    Cannondale Headshok Headset Reducer Lefty 1 1 8 Adapter Headshox Head Tube | eBay

    Here's my fork that I need the reducers for:
    Post you RUSH 650B-%24-kgrhqfhjfifjtgllw7zbsd-wm9cq%7E%7E60_57.jpg

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    Just about finished with my winter build. Still need to cut down the brake lines and adjust the rear derailleur.

    For the headset, I was able to press the bottom bearing onto the head tube. This allowed me to keep the SI cups and eliminated the need for the KP205 headset. I then used the top cap I found on ebay for the top bearing (see above picture).

    Before:
    Post you RUSH 650B-img_0231-cropped.jpg

    After:
    Post you RUSH 650B-img_0071a.jpg
    Post you RUSH 650B-img_0061a.jpg
    Post you RUSH 650B-img_0064a.jpg
    Post you RUSH 650B-img_0063a.jpg
    Post you RUSH 650B-img_0069a.jpg
    Post you RUSH 650B-img_0066a.jpg

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    Your shock looks like it's stuck down or something. Does it have some air in it?

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    I'm looking to do a budget 650b convert to my 2008 rush carbon that is now my backup bike and I want to go 1x9. Can any of you recommend an affordable singlespeed crank?

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    Hey guys, I guess I can report a brief update on my 650b experience but I've also got a question.

    First, all is well. Love it. Would never go back. I installed a hybrid Lefty 120mm and reduced travel by 10mm which tweaked geometry slightly but I really like it. I'm now running 1x10 so front derailleur clearance issues are not on my mind. I am, however, wondering about those damned tabs for the swingarm brace.

    I've destroyed a couple of 2.0 Quasi Motos now and am needing something beefier back there.

    Can folks comment on the biggest tires they've run on a Rush that has the newer swingarm with the brace (removed)? The nubs for the swingarm remain, so reading about 2.35's on an '06 Rush doesn't help me, unfortunately.

    Second, has anybody ground off those nubs? I'm about to do it out of desperation.

    Post you RUSH 650B-rush.jpg

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    I have a 2.35 Neo Moto on the rear of my '09. Stubs are there with brace removed. No issues.

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    fwiw the 2.35 swellbees did not fit on my 06 rush. they rubbed the sides and the seat tube at bottom out. I had few/no problems with the 2.3 neo motos and nevegals. to my understanding, these should fit regardless of the nubs, as the nubs are up a bit higher.

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    Has anyone tried those Derby Carbon 27.5 rims on their Rush? I'm wondering if the wider rim would make my 2.25 RRs too big for clearance in the brace-less swing arm of my 2006...

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    i'm not sure, but I will say my 2.35 NNs did not fit, so you might be pushing it. Not sure how the schwalbes scale.

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    Hey Sandwich, thanks for the reply! I may just have to find a 2.35 to try on my current setup and if it works, then consider the wider rims. I'd like a bit more volume in the tires, but then probably will be tempted to push the envelope of what the Rush is intended for...
    Based on some of you posts above - which are very interesting btw - i wonder if I might ask a suspension-related question? I'm additionally considering doing a 1x10 conversion and searching around for details on how to do it. But the thing that i'm curious about regarding the suspension is that if I have a single chainring, will that mess with some of the characteristics of the rear suspension action? Does the single ring go where the middle or largest current ring is at?

  68. #68
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    I'd just drop the small and large chainrings and keep the middle. The bike pedals really well with a 32, but a 30t would give you a little more antisquat (bite when really cranking). You can also go up a few teeth (I ran both a 32 and later a 36) and get a little less feedback, if that's your thing. Personally I'd slap a 30 on it with an 11-34 and climb up pretty much anything. I have a 32 on 11-32 on my krampus now and I really don't long for another gear. If you're looking to sit and spin, I really have to wonder if a 1x system is the right choice...I can't imagine a 30t x 42t cog, that's crazy low...but I digress.

    Tire-wise, the 2.35 NNs buzzed on the seat tube AND the sides, but they weren't problematic on the sides. With a fatter bottom out bumper you might be able to pull it off, but the flex of the rush had me concerned with running the NNs for longer than a test ride. As I've mentioned previously, the 2.3 pacentis and nevegals gave me no problems with a properly tuned shock on 23mm (internal) rims. I don't know what the side knobs are like on the RR, but I'd be hesitant to run the fat rims with a fat schwalbe tire...you're really cramming a lot of width in a bike that wasn't designed for it.

    Best of luck...I've moved on from my rush but I really enjoyed it. I wish I weren't such a suspension geek, I'd probably still be running it, but between the big wheels and the falling rate, I upgraydded.

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    Good stuff - thanks! Very helpful. I am torn re: the 30T vs 32T, so your input is great. Did you use a type II der with your single ring setup or was the narrow/wide chainring enough?
    Out of curiosity, what did you go to? A 29'er or 27.5 specific bike?

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    I didn't run a 1x setup on the rush, but I have the same derailleur and cogset on my krampus, which doesn't have a clutch. I drop chains like crazy, so I'm looking into getting the n/w chainring first, then toying with a new derailleur. I have a carbon cage XTR setup, so I'm not in a hurry to get rid of it (plus I don't want to go 10 speed until I absolutely have to). I've heard a lot of good things about the n/w rings, with and without the clutch.

    From the rush, I picked up an enduro 29er. It doesn't climb nearly as well, but the geometry is awesome. I wish it had a touch less travel, to be a true trail bike, but I love the 29" wheels. in my personal opinion, I didn't feel that 650b gave enough of an improvement compared to 26 to warrant the switch, and when I built the rush I didn't believe anybody would build a 29er FS bike with sub 17" chainstays. Then they did, then I got enough money to buy one, and I've been quite happy. I also have the krampus, which is a riot in its own right. I haven't felt a particular lack of nimbleness once you get the geometry right, which it is on the enduro....

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    Post you RUSH 650B

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    I didn't run a 1x setup on the rush, but I have the same derailleur and cogset on my krampus, which doesn't have a clutch. I drop chains like crazy, so I'm looking into getting the n/w chainring first, then toying with a new derailleur. I have a carbon cage XTR setup, so I'm not in a hurry to get rid of it (plus I don't want to go 10 speed until I absolutely have to). I've heard a lot of good things about the n/w rings, with and without the clutch.

    From the rush, I picked up an enduro 29er. It doesn't climb nearly as well, but the geometry is awesome. I wish it had a touch less travel, to be a true trail bike, but I love the 29" wheels. in my personal opinion, I didn't feel that 650b gave enough of an improvement compared to 26 to warrant the switch, and when I built the rush I didn't believe anybody would build a 29er FS bike with sub 17" chainstays. Then they did, then I got enough money to buy one, and I've been quite happy. I also have the krampus, which is a riot in its own right. I haven't felt a particular lack of nimbleness once you get the geometry right, which it is on the enduro....
    Cool. I've heard those Krampii are a lot of fun! Did you do a 29+ setup with some fat tires?

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    Yeah, it's pretty much full retard. Not a ton of time on it yet, but I had it on some local trails that were just great. It suffers a bit in the tight stuff, but no surprise there with the giant tires.

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    Just customized my 2006 Rush 2000.
    Custom wheelset: Velocity Blunt SS rims, DT Comps, red alloy nips, red Project 321 hubs. With Tubeless Hans Dampf 27.5/2.25" evo pacestar
    XT M8000 conversion with: I Spec II shifter, brakes, ice tech rotors, rear derailleur, and 11-42 11spd cassette.
    Race Face red 32T chainring.

    Bike is awesome now, better rollover and no pedal bash!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Post you RUSH 650B-img_20160715_133742091_hdr.jpg  


  74. #74
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    Are people out there still riding their Rush 650B? I am and I still enjoy it, but lately I've had the bug to get something newer. I haven't ridden anything newer yet, but just kind of wondering how the 650B Rush compares to what's out there these days, has it been completely left behind?

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    I love the setup I'm running! I don't find myself getting smoked by newer bikes, only by better riders. I personally like the geometry of the frame and the fact that it's handmade in the USA. The higher end brand new components made a huge difference and I welcomed the change for sure. If I bought a new bike down the road, it would probably be a fat bike or a plus bike to have another tool in the tool belt. Hope that helps!

  76. #76
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    Totally curious about building one of these... Rode a Super V then Uber V for a long time. Stopped by my local shop yesterday and there's an medium orange rush there for $275. Its got a crap fork and mixed wheelset on it, but looks in decent shape otherwise. I've got a decent extra 26" wheelset on hand to start with, but I'm curious about buying it and going 27.5 with it. I certainly don't need another bike but I'm quite tempted.

    I'm most curious about rear clearance. Seems like you can't run a large rear tire in 650b trim. Also, is reducing rear travel required to make it work? I've seen it mentioned but haven't found much detail. Also curious about 27.5 front/26 rear. Anyone try that combination?

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    $275 if the bike looks good is a steal. What fork did they put on it, seems dumb to convert it from the lefty unless they took the fork to convert a different bike to a lefty or just didn't have the money to replace the fork if it wore out. As far as reducing any travel front or rear, I haven't felt the need to and have not had any problems. I've also been fine running the bike with a tubeless 650b 2.25" tire in the back and find the traction's pretty awesome with the right tire for you riding style. I would be more worried about clearance in the front unless you plan on changing to a 650b fork or find a deal on a lefty. I've seen on forums people do the two different tire thing and have ok results, but definitely find it worth doing both especially for the extra bottom bracket clearance now achieving no pedal bashes like I used to. It really feels as though that frame was almost designed for 650b, but it just didn't exist at the time. That being said, I liked it a lot as a 26er too, but was just ready for an overhaul for me. If you have a great 26 wheelset, go ahead and run it. Also another thing on rear clearance, depending what year it is, it may have a little bracket back there that you want to remove if it's a 2008 or later I believe. Mine didn't have it because it was a 2006. Another thing that helped extra rear clearance and not to mention handlebar clutter and some wait, was going with a 1x setup in the front. Hope that helps, would love to see some pics if you go through with it!

  78. #78
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    I did the 650b rush thing for a while. Before it was cool.

    I don't know that it's worth it. The only tires you can really run are pacentis, which aren't the highest volume nor tallest tires you can run. Even then, I got tire buzz in the small chainring (remember when people ran two?), and I would get seat tube buzz on bottom out. I didn't have problems with tire rub on the stays though.

    The swingarm is pretty flexy on this bike, and without a 142mm axle, it's not going to get dramatically better. Plus, if you build up a wheelset, you'll have to choose a 135mm axle (or find one that can convert), if you want to use it on another bike in the future.

    You'll have to get a new fork, unless there's a lefty on there. Even with a lefty, you'll still need to build a wheel committed to the 650b wheelset, as lefty hubs are not compatible with anything else on the market. Luckily, the rush is compatible with a variety of forks thanks to its 1.5" headtube.

    So, if you pick this bike up, you'll need a $200 fork, a $250 wheelset, and then tires that are small enough to fit without rubbing. You're in for $750 for a mediocre bike with the smallest 650b tires on the market.

    My suggestion, instead, would be to keep it 26", put some fat tires on there, and enjoy. After I sold my rush, I thought about moving up a size, getting a short stem, and slapping some big rubber on 26" wheels as an east coast trailbike. Unfortunately, I don't think the falling rate suspension is very good, so aside from cost and geometry, there are simply better options now.

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    Thanks for the info. I bought it. This is far from a primary bike for me. Just something fun to play with, and a bike I wanted back when it came out. My main rides are a Surly Ice Cream Truck, usually running 29+ except when there's enough snow, and a Yeti SB66. Shop brought it down, $270 out the door after tax. I'm going to sell off the old wheels and cheap fork. I found a decent deal on a fox 32 to go with it. I've seen Rush frames on ebay sell for what I got the bike for, so if I don't like it I'll just part it out. I swapped over a spare 70mm stem and 750mm bar. Hope to make time to swap the fork over this weekend. I've got some 2.4 Ardents in the garage that I'll run on my spare wheelset for now. I've used this wheelset on 135 QR bikes before with 135x12 end caps and a 12-10mm step down axle. Don't see why that won't work in this frame to add a little stiffness out back.

  80. #80
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    Will you go 650b with those ardents?

    I do think the rush is a pretty slick ride, way before its times in terms of relaxed geometry and long top tube. The bolt on axle should stiffen the rear up. That's what I had with my King hub- bolt on end caps.

    Jam as many spacers as you can in the air can, and that should help the suspension a little. Sounds like you have a good plan though.

  81. #81
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    No, they're 26x2.4. Decent volume tire. Maybe slap a 2.5 DHF up front, but don't really think I'll need that on this bike. I've also got a 27.5x2.4 Ardent that I have no bike for right now, hence wondering about just finding a 27.5 front wheel and running a mixer. Still would raise the BB a hair and slacken the bike a little. May fit in this Fox 32, they have gobs of space. Good thought on adding some spacers to make it more progressive.

  82. #82
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    I've been toying the idea of converting my rush to 650b for the ground clearance increase.

    How do I know what wheelset to pick though?
    For example, would this wheelset work? Fulcrum Red Power 27.5" 6-Bolt MTB Wheelset | Chain Reaction Cycles

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockbrook View Post
    I've been toying the idea of converting my rush to 650b for the ground clearance increase.

    How do I know what wheelset to pick though?
    For example, would this wheelset work? Fulcrum Red Power 27.5" 6-Bolt MTB Wheelset | Chain Reaction Cycles

    That's awesome that you're gonna convert. If your Rush is a Lefty up front, you'll have to get a lefty hub up front, there's a handful of options out there to choose from, more than likely gonna have to build a wheelset though, unless there's a lefty 650b wheelset being offered now. Also pay attention to what cassette you're planning on running in the rear and what break style you run as well. Good luck!

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    Chiming in here as I'll be parting ways with my 2008 Rush Carbon 650b mod soon.
    Honestly, it's a great bike. The geometry was so far ahead of it's time and the 650b mod made the bike a lot better. I ride very rough and rocky terrain, so the downfall of this setup was the limitations for the rear tire. It is NOT true that you are stuck with Pacenti... I've read in this thread that the 2.3 Neo fits in the rear without rubbing and that we are stuck with the Pacenti option. I'm writing this to counter those statements.

    First, I tried the 2.3 in the rear and did rub. It rubbed under load (chainstays, nubs ground down only slightly) and seat tube under bottom-out.

    Second, of course we can run other tires... My favourite setup for the bike has been a Kenda Nevegal 2.1 in the rear (Nobby Nick 2.35 front).

    These make for super great bikes. Reliable and fun. The suspension setup is a strength and weakness. Newer bikes definitely track better, climb better, but are going to be less reliable due to multi-pivot setups.

    On a budget, I'd do this again.

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