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  1. #1
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    Perp Owners - Please Help

    OK hopefully you Perp owners can help here. I'm looking to get a DH bike fairly soon, and being a Prophet owner and Cannondale supporter for years, naturally I'm considering the Perp. This bike would purely be used for my local DH bike parks in northern California (Northstar & Mammoth), as well as local secret DH runs. My upper budget is around $3500; although I hope to spend less.

    Questions:

    - Is the Perp a good choice for me? In other words, can it truly handle steep gnarly trails with large berms, tables, boulders, drops, etc.?
    - What are the main differences between the '07 & '08 models? Do you recommend getting an '07 at discount or is it worth splurging for the '08?
    - What's the average weight you have yours at?
    - Do you feel them to be modifiable or rather limited in upgrade capacity?

    Thanks kids!!

  2. #2
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    I have spent a season on a Judge and I order a Perp frame today. I thought I would be doing a lot of DH racing, but I more just ride freeride/fast stuff like Diablo Freeride Park. I feel as though the Perp will be a little smaller/lighter and flickable, which is what I am after. The bike is already super over built. For 2008, Cdale just did a more price point Perp version. The higher model is similar to last years except the rear shock and front shock are different I believe. I would say try to get a good deal on an 07' and you'll be happy.

    As far as upgrading, they are very similar to other bikes... 1.5 HT's, common shock size (8.75 x 2.75), 150mm rear wheel spacing, 83mm bottom bracket. I'd say go for.
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  3. #3
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    The best new feature on the 08 is that they are painted in plain colors, no logos, no decals!

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  4. #4
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    I would try to get a discount on an 07 Perp 1 and use the extra cash to swap out the Van R for a DHX 4 or 5. Other than the rear shock its a solid build

  5. #5
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    What other rear shocks would you guys recommend? You think a Manitou ISX, Rock Shox Vivid, or Cane Creek DB would be a good choice?
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  6. #6
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    Judge is Cannondale's DH bike, Perp is for freeride. The geometry is different, and the Perp (as a complete bike) comes with a single crown fork.

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    The Cane Creek DB would be awesome if you can swing it and the ROCO's are real nice as well. Dont know much about the Manitou or the Rock Shock

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    The best new feature on the 08 is that they are painted in plain colors, no logos, no decals!
    You know what, I actually love this aspect of the new ones; I love the plain look. Wish I could clean up my Prophet like that!

    Anyone know the prices yet for the new ones?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheProphet
    What other rear shocks would you guys recommend? You think a Manitou ISX, Rock Shox Vivid, or Cane Creek DB would be a good choice?
    I would think the ROCO TST would be the ideal shock for the Perp. Currently I'm riding an AS-X with one and it works awesome. For climbing the shock will nearly lock the rear end out. When going down you have 4 clicks of compression adjustment over a very wide range to work with.

    Bummer is that according to the Marz site in 08 the ROCO TST won't be available in 8.75 x 2.75. Although if you call Marz they might swap the TST internals into that size body.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    You know what, I actually love this aspect of the new ones; I love the plain look. Wish I could clean up my Prophet like that!

    Anyone know the prices yet for the new ones?
    Perp 3: $2199.99
    Perp 2: $2999.99
    Perp 1: $3999.99
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  11. #11
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    I dont have my new cannondale catalog with me but IIRC the Perp 2 is the one to get, it comes packin' a totem coil. Then just upgrade the rear shock, if you in good with your LBS you could get away with spending ~3100 or so putting a Marz or Fox DHX 5 on it. Few hundo more if you want the Cane Creek DB

  12. #12
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    Good suggestion - the Perp 2 looks to be the best bet for me from Cannondale. My other consideration at the moment is the new Transition Blindside; although this will run a good $700 more. Also looking at some of the 2007 Brodies; like the Damien.

  13. #13
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    That transition looks real nice, I would love to ride one of their bikes. Personally I would go for the Perp or the Bullit just because I have local dealers for both. You wouldnt go wrong with any of the bikes your looking at. The main thing with cannondale is your going to get a little bit less component wise than you would with most others, but the frames are bullet proof.

  14. #14
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    OK; the "freeride" and "downhill" official classifications aside (i.e. Perp - FR, Judge - DH), y'all feel the Perp could handle hitting downhill at a park such as Northstar? Drops, berms, jumps, ladders, boulders, etc. Also, the frames are exactly the same between '07 & '08?
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    Last edited by Kevin G; 09-07-2007 at 05:49 PM.

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    if i were you i would try out the manitou revox. i've read some positive reviews of it and if it's anything like my evolver isx6 it would prob be great. I think kevin g is happy with his evolver isx4, and this is basically the coil version of mine i think - that is intrinsic dampening with high/low speed compressionand rebound adjustibility, as well as how progressive it ramps up. And yes, titanium spring to get it light. Sounds expensive, but prob well worth it.

    And kevin, i don't think cannondale would issue a freeride bike that couldn't take some serious abuse, so i wouldn't worry about if it can take the beatings. it prob can. I thought about getting a perp1 this year, but i just don't need that much travel. My commencal supreme fr has enough and is more of an all rounder of a bike. I would check commencal out if i were you. They're redesigning their dh/fr bikes for 09 so sweet deals could be had the following the recent and 08 offering. Cedric had the first cannondale promodel (ever?/in a long while), but switched company to ride for commencal. Their bikes are really good, though if a none made in the us bike is deal breaker, don't look any further. I'm really happy with mine and while it is a little heavy, even after all my recent upgrades (all of which are still to get here), it's still a nicer bike than my prophet i think. The rear wheel suspension is more efficient and the adjustable angles up front works a lot better than the prophet's solution of lowering the crank. Don't get me wrong, i love my prophet and prefer if for some uses - but the supreme's just my over all favorite of the two (-though granted it's a narrow margin).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    OK; the "freeride" and "downhill" official classifications aside (i.e. Perp - FR, Judge - DH), y'all feel the Perp could handle hitting downhill at a park such as Northstar? Drops, berms, jumps, ladders, boulders, etc. Also, the frames are exactly the same between '07 & '08?
    For sure! Thats what I plan to do with mine is everything you just mentioned. Have you seen the bike in person? It looks much more burlier then the pictures. Yes, the frames are the same except the colors and decal options are different for 2008.
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  17. #17
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    So I played with one today at my local shop (first time touching one). It was an '07 Perp 2. Damn is it plush; feels really great. My only potential concern - at least for downhill fast use - is it's higher BB and less slack HT angle. And the cockpit/wheelbase felt tight (I'm 5'10" and was trying out a medium). I bet this geometry is great for slammin' FR over rocks and roots and drops. Guess I need to decide what style I want more. The Transition Blindside is slightly more DH oriented than FR. Anyways, thanks for all the input so far. The '08s seem worth the $500 or so premium over their '07 counterparts due to the component upgrades - i.e. Totem vs. Domain, Juicy vs. Hayes.

  18. #18
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    Perp fans: the latest issue of Decline has a review of the Perp 1 (looks like the '07).

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    Perp fans: the latest issue of Decline has a review of the Perp 1 (looks like the '07).
    Also MBAction has a test of the 2007 Perp 2 in it's November 2007 issue.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    So I played with one today at my local shop (first time touching one). It was an '07 Perp 2. Damn is it plush; feels really great. My only potential concern - at least for downhill fast use - is it's higher BB and less slack HT angle. And the cockpit/wheelbase felt tight (I'm 5'10" and was trying out a medium). I bet this geometry is great for slammin' FR over rocks and roots and drops. Guess I need to decide what style I want more. The Transition Blindside is slightly more DH oriented than FR. Anyways, thanks for all the input so far. The '08s seem worth the $500 or so premium over their '07 counterparts due to the component upgrades - i.e. Totem vs. Domain, Juicy vs. Hayes.
    Cockpit should feel pretty tight, that you dont want to be streched out for dh/fr. Im 5'7" and I ride a small for dh. The HT will definitly be steeper because it is a true FR bike, but it will be able to do anything DH wise that you can throw at it. If you plan on using it for primarily DH while you get good at FR then you may consider a different bike thats more slack. Thats what I did, I ended up with a Demo 7 because it was a little more raked out and I'm not a freeride guru where I can benefit more from a steeper HT.

  21. #21
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    I always thought a 66 degree headtube was slack. The Judge has a 64 degree headtube and according to a lot of people on here, that is sssslllacccckkk. What more do you want?
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  22. #22
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    Never realized it was that slack. My Demo is 65 degrees and that feels like its way out there.

  23. #23
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    Well, the Prophet in FR position is 67.5; so not that far off. Most FR bikes seem to be at 66 and DH ones 65. I guess 1 degree of difference isn't that much, but when coupled with the seat tube angle, bottom bracket height and wheelbase...

  24. #24
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    Very true. I am excited to try the Perp to see/feel the main differences from the Judge at a resort.
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  25. #25
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    Lucky you to have both, brother - report back as soon as you rip it up with the Perp!

    By the way, if y'all haven't read the Decline article, it's a very positive review. Basically recommends the Perp for medium-paced very technical trails. They acknowledge the FR-oriented cockpit, but say the bike is great for most trails out there - including DH. It may just not rail corners as fast; in other words, I read this as not recommending it as a pure DH race bike, but certainly for DH park recreation.

  26. #26
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    Im not sure when my frame is coming in so it could be a little but I surely will. I defenitly know that I will be selling my Judge frame though after barely a season on it.
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  27. #27
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    What didn't you like about the Judge? Or why replacing it with a Perp?

  28. #28
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    I found that I spend most of my time riding in tight situations and hitting more freeride stuff. Been riding a couple times at Diablo Freeride Park in NJ and the Judge is great for taking corners and going fast, but not so great for jumping. That could be in part to I am not the "strongest" person, just lanky. With a long wheelbase and not much DH racing, just riding in my future, I think the Perp would be a better choice. I believe the geometry will be much better and I believe I will like the cockpit. Basically everything is going to swap over so it will be a Perp with a Marzocchi 888 and maybe a single crown in the future, so I look forward to trying it out.

    And I just picked up the new Decline mag and read the Perp review, I believe they hit that spot on. Great review.
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  29. #29
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    Definitely see your point. This is the debate I'm going through for my purchase. Pure DH bikes in my opinion seem great for mainly racing (speed downhill); not necessarily for what we average riders do in bike parks and backwoods. Northstar here on the west coast has loads of huge rocks, ruts, berms, drops, jumps, etc. so it's more FR than straight up DH.

    So far I'm considering in addition to the Perp:

    - Transition Blindside
    - IH Sunday Expert
    - Banshee Scythe
    - Ellsworth Dare
    - Brodie Damien
    - Kona Stinky Deluxe

    Any opinions on these would be appreciated!

  30. #30
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    Very true. Of course my vote is going to be for the Perp because I am a huge Cannondale fan. I like simplicity and the customer service.

    Transition Blindside: Love the company, great group of guys. New design, I am sure they have done their research because all of their other bikes seem to do great. Interesting to see how that rides.

    IH Sunday Expert: Great suspension design. Very common bike.

    Banshee Scythe: Seems like a cool design and bike. Looks like the suspension is somewhat similar to the Transition.

    Ellsworth Dare: My honest opinion about Ellsworth is they are great quality, but I believe they are over priced and somewhat out dated. But that is just my opinion.

    Brodie Damien: I have a buddy who rides the bike and he loves it. He tears it up.

    Kona Stinky: Great bike for the price. It comes with their DOPE system, so that will help the ride.

    Maybe also look at Knolly Bikes or Commencal. But my vote is still going to go for the Perp for obvious reasons.
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  31. #31
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    Thanks brother! Great feedback.

    Regarding the Dare, it's a new one coming out in '08. Working with my local rep to check it out.

  32. #32
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    Don't forget that the Perp will also be lighter to alot lighter than those other frame styles.

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    eh, i dunno anything about most of these bikes, but comment on those i do. never really liked kona at all, but their new system seems kinda cool. i dunno how well it works. it kinda seems like one more variable when you really don't need to add any more.

    a perp is a splendid bike i would think, though i think it has a lot of travel in the rear. i would also def think of a commencal supreme (enough travel in either of em for you?) or the new furious, cedric gracias new toy for larking about. i love my supreme though it has yet to see real tough abuse. the real wheel suspension is really good.

    other than that the other bikes look kinda nice too, but i know next to nothing about them. what about a santa cruz bullit or another of their longer travel bikes?

  34. #34
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    Don't think Commencal is sold in the US; at least it doesn't look easy to get one.

    Agreed about the Perp's rear travel - that's the FIRST thing I noticed when sitting on one. "Damn! How plush is this?!"

    As for Santa Cruz, I'm right in their backyard; was considering the VP-Free but the '08s won't be out until next June. And the V10 is a bit too much for me. The Bullitt seems too close to my beefed-up Prophet.

    Ronald> Good point about the weight. What does the average Perp come in at? Mid 40s? Low 40s?

    The Perp is also going to be cheaper than all the other models I'm considering; sometimes over $500 less!

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    well, there is the costs too yes.. hehe. the bullit has over 7 inches in the back and would fit any fork you can throw at it. the vp free is really nice too, but june is too long of a wait, i agree ;-)

    commencal is sold by.. :

    http://www.bti-usa.com/list.asp?cat=BK&mfr=CL&showSec=1

    be forewarned that their site kinda sucks. there's also sometimes one on ebay like this on that you can prob get really cheap, though the paint looks kinda messed up:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/2006-Commencal-S...QQcmdZViewItem

    this one might not be burly enough though if you're looking at a hard core dh bike. with a 66 up front though, and even with this van rc2, it's up for some serious larking.

    and did you notice this one? or is getting a brand new one paramount? i guess it's kinda important warrenty wise over yonder. over here they pretty much respect the life time warrenty no matter what, or at least give you a really good deal if you busts the old one.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Cannondale-Perp-...QQcmdZViewItem
    Last edited by klinkekule; 09-12-2007 at 02:21 PM.

  36. #36
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    Thanks for the suggestions. What is it about Commencal you dig so much? Am hesitant to buy off of ebay; I do get components there but a full build scares me. I did see that Perp listed though! Wonder how much it'll go for.

  37. #37
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    hehe, i just really like my supreme. the rear suspension, or the contact system as they call it, was developed with eric bossard, a formula 1 suspension expert, so it's really nice and has the rear wheel glued to the ground. the only thing i don't like about my supreme is the wheight, but with the new build it's going to get really really nice. i'll post a pic of it when it's done.

    i guess i just like commencal because i've studied em quite extensively, liked what i've seen and have been supported by really good reviews in the press and by other riders.

    one just picks certain brands one perfers, and for me those brands are cannondale and commencal, with santa cruz as a (a little bit distant) third. i like how these bikes look and work, so there you got it.

    getting a entire build shouldn't be a problem . you can just plan that if you get the bike a contract of sorts has to be agreed upon. this so that if the bike is less than perfect order a return or discount can be had. a shop could typically look over the bike, one for each party, so a objective partner can verify that the state of the bike is as described. i bought my prophet used with just some photos to go by, and ended up with a sweet deal. busted the rear wheel on the second short trip i used it, so due to the detailed contract that stated what was considered a deficiency and what would happen if such a thing would occur, i got a refund for the rear wheel. brilliant. this guy is also a major seller, so he needs to keep his rating all positive.(though i got mine from the east coast of norway when living on the west, and not from the midwest when i live in ca. the extra distance makes it abit more risky.)

    it won't be cheap, but it would be cheaper than the current on sale. it looks to be in great shape and is described as such, so i would go for it if i were you. hehe. just swap the brakes for some formula oros when you get it, or wait for their new dh brakes, the one, though even if it has a tacky name will prob be expensive as all hell, but totally worth it. i love my formula brakes too, love em. i have some oro k24s and some extremes. both of em are awesome i think.
    Last edited by klinkekule; 09-12-2007 at 03:47 PM.

  38. #38
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    So I got a Cannondale demo day this weekend at my LBS so hopefully I'll be able to report back on the 2008 Perps!

    P.S. After some research it seems like they're releasing only white models for Europe. Anyone confirm this?

  39. #39
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    Dont cross the bullit off the list they are awesome, it just feels like you could throw it around so easily. I was looking at both the perp and the bullit, both are excellent single pivot designs. You can get either of them equiped similarly for the money.

    Dont know much about any of the other bikes you listed except the kona. You can get a lot of bike for the money with kona especially if you go used.

  40. #40
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    So I rode a demo 2007 Judge today. Sweet ride. The rep didn't have any Perps unfortunately so I couldn't compare. Just wondering what the differences would be. I see the specs on paper (slacker HT for Judge, tighter/taller cockpit for Perp) but I'm curious to how it all translates to riding. But I hear they're cranking great deals on the 2007 Perp 2 - you can get it now for $2K.

  41. #41
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    I got a chance to ride a Perp today and I thought it was a blast. Fast, nimble, and fun pretty much sums it up. I was riding trail though, not much DH stuff in terms and jumps and drops.
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  42. #42
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    Hey Prophet - so it looks like my decision is narrowing down to Judge vs. Perp. Can you elaborate any more on the differences since you've ridden both? I rode the Judge around my town yesterday [as a demo] and have only sat on a Perp in a store. My main usage will be bike parks such as Mammoth and Northstar, as well as push-up DH trails near my house. No racing really, but I like to go very fast. Love to hit jumps and drops, but am no professional trickster. Thanks brother!

  43. #43
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    I would say go with the perp, 75% of what you just said defines that bike.

    Parks, hit jumps, drops 75% - Perp

    Go fast 25% - Judge

    Theres no doubt you can go fast on a perp too!!

  44. #44
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    I would say go Perp. And if you feel the need to put a double crown fork on there, then do so. You can still go fast on the Perp because it still have pretty long chainstays, making it stable at higher speeds. Actually it has the same chainstay length as the Judge. The Perp didnt feel as cumbersome and was an easy bike to get up to speed.

    Racing: Judge
    Slopestyle/DH Parks: Perp

    I think you will be happy with your decision.
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  45. #45
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    Thanks, Proph.

    Check it, kids: new Pinkbike follow-up review.

  46. #46
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    Theres all you need. Buy it!
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  47. #47
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    Proph> Post photos of yours when you get it. Which color did you grab?

  48. #48
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    Here is mine currently. Not 100% sure when the new frame will be in. I believe the color is going to raw. That's my guess. I really have no idea. Haha.



    Upgrades from that picture:
    Avid Code Straitline Upgrade Levers
    Working on new tires
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  49. #49
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    The UK mountain biking mag just did a real nice write up on the Perp. You can find the mag at Barnes & Nobels if you have one near you!

  50. #50
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    Your Judge rocks. Am actually considering at the moment getting both the Judge and Perp; and selling my Prophet.

    You keeping the Judge?

  51. #51
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    That would be cool. No, I think I am going to just sell the frame and just swap over all the parts. Thats what the plan is.
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  52. #52
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    So I just read the Perp review in the new MB Action magazine and damn; not a good review at all. I'll certainly trust Pinkbike's review (which was in stark contrast) instead as I feel they're more of a FR/DH community and know their sh*t moreso than the XCers over at MB Action. BUT I can see their point about the cockpit - I imagine if you're used to pure DH geometry for DH runs, then the Perp must take some getting used to with it's shorter wheelbase, higher BB, and steeper head angle.

  53. #53
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    well, there's two judges for sale over here in ville du rain, and luckily i don't need one. what the hell are one supposed to do with 220mm of travel. insanity! hehe. no don't get me wrong, it would be really, really fun to try one. never ridden on a bike with that much travel before.

    yeah, some people have some issues with the high bb heights of the gem and perp, but i would think it's just a benefit. i dunno. i've smacked the pedals into stones with my prophet and i've even thought i was superman for some on some occasions, but gravity would have it otherwise. so i kinda think a little bit of an high bb would be good for freeriding. i think the perp would be a perfect bike for larking about on. or, after my commencal supreme ;-) couldn't resist it. (i'm still thinking, what would i need 180-200mm of travel for? hehe)

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    So I just read the Perp review in the new MB Action magazine and damn; not a good review at all. I'll certainly trust Pinkbike's review (which was in stark contrast) instead as I feel they're more of a FR/DH community and know their sh*t moreso than the XCers over at MB Action. BUT I can see their point about the cockpit - I imagine if you're used to pure DH geometry for DH runs, then the Perp must take some getting used to with it's shorter wheelbase, higher BB, and steeper head angle.
    The difference in wheelbase between the large Perp and large Judge is 0.4". I doubt anyone here would be able to tell the difference in wheelbase between the two.

  55. #55
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    Sure; it's more than just the wheelbase - it's the combo of all geometry specs. I don't think anyone would say they feel no difference between the Judge and Perp cockpits. Personally I felt a big one, which is why I plan on getting both bikes. One will be my sportscar and the other my SUV. And my Prophet is up for sale.

  56. #56
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    you're selling the prophet? my oh my. how much for the evolver old friend? ;-) hit me up with a pm eh? hehe
    Last edited by klinkekule; 09-24-2007 at 04:36 PM.

  57. #57
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    Yes, Klink; my goal is to swap it out for a Perp. I love my Prophet though. Rides like a dream. But I want to go bigger. Want to sell it as a complete rig, but will let you know if I take parts off.

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    didn't you keep the last shock? better coin to be made on dealing in parts you know ;-) hehe

  59. #59
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    Still have the Radium; but I would want the buyer of the Prophet to be treated right. Which would be with an ISX4.

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    nonsense! you should seek to maximize your budget for the pending acquisition of the perp/judge duo. selling the evolver seperately would ensure this, while selling the radium seperately would not ;-) hehe. do what you like man, i'll survive without it.

  61. #61
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    Man Kevin G you really got me thinking now. I have a Prophet too, which I honestly don't ride much. Your making me want to swap over all the parts from my Judge to the Perp frame, save the Judge frame, then next season get a single crown for the Perp (Zocchi 66 probably) then just build up the Judge as a sick race bike. Lighter wheels, front fork, etc. What do you think?
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  62. #62
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    Good ideas, Prophet. My plan is to make the Perp as light as possible as I want to use that bike for my local riding. And keep the Judge reserved for bike parks and when I feel the need for speed. I'll take the Perp to the bike park too when I crave the gnarly (i.e. super rocky, ladders, etc.) but flatter trails. Since I'm not into long XC runs nor a lot of climbing, the Prophet doesn't make sense for me to keep. I'm banking a lot though on the Perp being fun to use outside of bike parks. By the way, how are you getting just a new Perp frame? Didn't know they sell 'em that way. I plan to sell my Prophet hopefully for around $1500 and then get the base Perp 3 for $2000; and build up as time goes on. My Prophet is currently at 36 lbs and the Perp 3 is supposed to be around 41, so the weight difference won't be much; but the fun factor, hell yeah!

    P.S. As I studied and obsessed over the geometries for my one "DH/FR" bike, I realized that they're really 2 different bikes; which is why I plan the Judge for DH and Perp for FR. But they can also be interchanged depending on the geometry I'd be craving on a particular day. Do I want slack and fast, or upright and air?

    Klink> How much would you pay for the ISX4?

  63. #63
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    True that. Sounds like you got yourself a plan and I might not be selling my Judge frame. I think I might slowly build it up over the winter, try to go for a light race build and use the Perp for the heavy freeride stuff. Thinkin' maybe Boxxer WC, Hope hubs to DT 5.1 rims, Avid Juicy Carbon Brakes... just a thought right now. I work at a shop so I asked the rep to help me out. You can get just the frame, it just makes more sense usually to get the whole bike.

    And heres a picture of the Judge in action for you...
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  64. #64
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    I think I just decided to cancel my Perp order. I really dont know what I want to do. Im thinking now about just waiting until next season to decide what I want to do. Maybe I'll start hitting the gym and swap out some lighter parts, then maybe I can move that thing around better. Only the winter will tell.

    By the way Kevin G, what Judge are you getting?
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  65. #65
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    Is that you on the Judge? Sweet shot!

    My local shop ordered an '07 Judge 1 for me on closeout; amazing prices now!

    Watching the pros throw around the Judge and get good air certainly makes it look possible. Have you watched Sick Mick in Sevenvision? Or GR's recent Diablo video?

    You should get a good 1 lb savings by simply switching in the Boxxer WC. What about running a single ring? Lighter cranks? Hannah's got his Judge at 42; check here. CVD has his at 37/38!!

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    Kevin G has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space.

    let's do it the pm route eh?

  67. #67
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    Should be OK now, Klink.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    Is that you on the Judge? Sweet shot!

    My local shop ordered an '07 Judge 1 for me on closeout; amazing prices now!

    Watching the pros throw around the Judge and get good air certainly makes it look possible. Have you watched Sick Mick in Sevenvision? Or GR's recent Diablo video?

    You should get a good 1 lb savings by simply switching in the Boxxer WC. What about running a single ring? Lighter cranks? Hannah's got his Judge at 42; check here. CVD has his at 37/38!!
    Nice! You will be happy with it and the Perp too! Yea thats me on the Judge. Ive watched all of GR's stuff and Sick Mick is well...sick thats for sure. Im currently running a single ring and ive been thinking about light cranks actually. Maybe some Holzfeller OCT. I had my Judge down to 42 lbs. as you see it in that action shot with different wheels, but I love my Ringle/729 wheelset that comes stock, pretty bombproof. Heres a list of ideas that I think you should look into for the Judge:
    1. Change the brakes...Hayes El Camino are crap. Ive run Codes all season and they are great.
    2. Get an Gamut or E.13 Chainguide. Ive been running a 36 tooth front ring all summer and have been happy.
    3. If you ride in rocky conditions, get thicker tires. The single plys that come stock arent bad, but are prone to flatting. I gave Kendas a try this weekend and had a terrible experience. Im on to giving Specialized tires a try. So far they feel good.
    4. Look at your options for a cartiage upgrade (or springs depending on how heavy you are) for the front fork or look at a new fork. I weigh 175 and at the beginning I could push the fork all the way down just by leaning on it. I swapped out to RC2 cartiages and firm springs and its money now.
    5. Make sure your main pivot stays tight. And always check the link/shock bolt for play/looseness, very common.

    Other then that, enjoy the ride!

    Upgrades Ive done:
    RC2 Cartiages, Compression/Rebound with firm springs
    E.13 STS 36 tooth chainguide
    Sram X9 Short Cage
    Sram PG-990 Cassette
    Specialized Pin it Tires
    Avid Code 203mm Brakes with Straitline Lever Upgrade
    ODI Oury Lock ons
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  69. #69
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    Thanks for the recommendations. Definitely going to go single ring on the Judge. Not sure why they even spec this with 2. Oury lock-ons are a given for me; love 'em. Same for Codes. Chain guide wise, I'll look at the e.13. Want to compare this with MRP's offerings. For cranks, you may want to check out the new Bones Lite; I have the heavier version (Chro-Mo) on my Prophet and think they're great.

    So as you're re-thinking your situation, so am I. May not sell the Prophet after all. I do love this bike and it may be good to have a trail bike at hand. What I plan to do though is lighten it up. Still want a Perp too. Will save up some money for an '08 one soon.

    Can't wait to get the Judge! Too bad Northstar will be closed though. But maybe it's for the better; want to take the off season to really get used to it and dial it in for next year.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    Want to compare this with MRP's offerings. For cranks, you may want to check out the new Bones Lite; I have the heavier version (Chro-Mo) on my Prophet and think they're great.
    The new FSA Gravity Light's are lighter than the Bones and come in a wider assortment of length. Word on the street is these are really nice.

    http://www.ridegravity.com/fly.aspx?...axid=13&pid=45

  71. #71
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    hi mountain dudes, i am just back from whistler with my perp. i can say my perp was a dream one garbanzo"all double black daimod trails" -whistler trail- slayer and A line!!! and there are some BRUTE Rock Gardens and drops....
    i never change to a nother bike. this bike like the air time. i ride the Large perp, i am 5'10 and this size fits me perfect.
    before i ride a medium judge this bike is to short for me, the large perp is between the medium and large judge. so, go for the perp!!!
    "i hafe many judge,m3, v10, dhr, comencal and foes back on my ass, but they can't smoke my perp!!"
    for me bike parts visit: http://www.booch.ch/bike.html



    Last edited by 8664; 09-30-2007 at 07:14 AM.

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  72. #72
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    Nice, brother; beautiful Perp! Now you got me wondering about size. I'm 5'10" too and ride a M Prophet (which is perfect for me). Ordered a M Judge so I hope this is OK. Now I'm wondering about Perp size when I get to ordering this. Sat on a M in the store and the cockpit did feel slightly tight; but I figured if I push the seat back a touch it would be OK. Would prefer to go smaller and easier to handle rather than larger and harder to handle. Thoughts anyone?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    Nice, brother; beautiful Perp! Now you got me wondering about size. I'm 5'10" too and ride a M Prophet (which is perfect for me). Ordered a M Judge so I hope this is OK. Now I'm wondering about Perp size when I get to ordering this. Sat on a M in the store and the cockpit did feel slightly tight; but I figured if I push the seat back a touch it would be OK. Would prefer to go smaller and easier to handle rather than larger and harder to handle. Thoughts anyone?
    yes, the medium perp is smaller than the medium judge!!
    the size is personally.. when i ride the medium judge i hit any time the fox40 stansions with my knee. and you stay much more on the front wheel... the large perp is like the medium DHR and this size i ride for month... for me is the large perp perfect. but if you go to a medium than go to the medium judge NOT to the medium perp with 5.10" but i feel better on the perp its handle smooth, and with the boxxer the head angel is ready for DH to!! the biggest minus on me judge was the slack 64" head angle with the fox 40. but if you put a boxxer on it i think it will be perfect..
    Last edited by 8664; 10-01-2007 at 12:35 AM.

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  74. #74
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    Thanks. Am actually getting both the Perp and the Judge (assuming I sell my Prophet). Already ordered a medium Judge; just wondering now about the Perp. Maybe a large is better for me? Will be running a single crown on the Perp since this will be my trail/AM/FR ride and the Judge will sport the 888 for DH usage. I notice the Perp comes in XL whereas the Judge only L so maybe that explains the size differences (meaning the Perps run a bit smaller)?

  75. #75
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    yes, the perp medium is smaller than the judge medium!

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  76. #76
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    Cool; thanks so much for the heads up! So did you see any other Perps or Judges at Whistler?

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    Cool; thanks so much for the heads up! So did you see any other Perps or Judges at Whistler?
    yes, 2 perp1 - 1 judge blue - 1 judge FR1 - 1 judge worldcup

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  78. #78
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    So what are all of your thoughts on the Perp vs. a Brodie Diablo (below is the 2008 model)? Both are about the same price for the same specs. Geometry differences are head angle (Perp 66, Diablo 67), rear travel (Perp 8", Diablo 7"), top tube length (Perp 22.3", Diablo 23"), seat tube angle (Perp 70, Diablo 68), and chainstay (Perp 18", Diablo 17.1"). Don't know much about Brodie, but these seem like nice bikes at fair prices.
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  79. #79
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    Still the Perp.
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    So what are all of your thoughts on the Perp vs. a Brodie Diablo (below is the 2008 model)? Both are about the same price for the same specs. Geometry differences are head angle (Perp 66, Diablo 67), rear travel (Perp 8", Diablo 7"), top tube length (Perp 22.3", Diablo 23"), seat tube angle (Perp 70, Diablo 68), and chainstay (Perp 18", Diablo 17.1"). Don't know much about Brodie, but these seem like nice bikes at fair prices.
    I hate bikes with interrupted seat posts. Even at Whistler I was raising my saddle on my Judge on the short climb from the lift to various trailheads. I was also staying about a mile from the Whistler Village so the raised seatpost made the commute a lot more tolerable if you can call the Judge a commuter.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    So what are all of your thoughts on the Perp vs. a Brodie Diablo (below is the 2008 model)? Both are about the same price for the same specs. Geometry differences are head angle (Perp 66, Diablo 67), rear travel (Perp 8", Diablo 7"), top tube length (Perp 22.3", Diablo 23"), seat tube angle (Perp 70, Diablo 68), and chainstay (Perp 18", Diablo 17.1"). Don't know much about Brodie, but these seem like nice bikes at fair prices.
    please delete this B ie picture!

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  82. #82
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    You can't raise the seat post on a style like the Brodie frame?

    Sorry, 8664; how about this one - another I'm considering (although used):


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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    You can't raise the seat post on a style like the Brodie frame?

    Sorry, 8664; how about this one - another I'm considering (although used):

    hey man this is a perp Tread not comparing Tread....

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  84. #84
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    Those are the big buzz right now because the frames are so cheap. I know where you can get a frame alone for 800 let me know if you want the shops info.

    I wasnt overly impressed with the frame when I looked at it, but I know lots of people love it.

    If you want to look at some other bikes Bullit's and SX's are real nice freeride bikes. I also know where you can get a new Bullit.2 with the Domain and DHX 3 Coil for 2200. The shop that has the Bullit also has a Large Perp 2 for 2300 on the floor that they are closing out.

    PM me if you want any of that info

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    You can't raise the seat post on a style like the Brodie frame?
    If you look at your picture it looks like you can raise the seatpost around 2 to 3 inches which not enough for a good pedaling height. I know riders who ruin their frame by raising the seatpost too high and cracked the seatpost mast.

    I like to ride with the seatpost at the extremes. I like it slammed for DH, FR and jumping. I like it XC height for pedalling.

  86. #86
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    Racer> Gotcha; I really am the opposite - like to keep the seat post in a middle setting where I'm comfortable descending and ascending, and not needing to fuss with it.

    Mags> Nice; do they also have good deals on complete DirtBag builds? It seems like Transition specs their bikes out nicely. The only SC I dig is the VP-Free, but those are MIA right now. And I've never really liked any Spesh bikes. I also dig the Banshee Scream, but get the impression that they're too heavy.

  87. #87
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    I didnt talk to them about builds on the transitions. Im supposing with the end of the season a month away they would put together a decent deal together.

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