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Perp Owners - Please Help

7K views 86 replies 11 participants last post by  Magsrgod 
#1 ·
OK hopefully you Perp owners can help here. I'm looking to get a DH bike fairly soon, and being a Prophet owner and Cannondale supporter for years, naturally I'm considering the Perp. This bike would purely be used for my local DH bike parks in northern California (Northstar & Mammoth), as well as local secret DH runs. My upper budget is around $3500; although I hope to spend less.

Questions:

- Is the Perp a good choice for me? In other words, can it truly handle steep gnarly trails with large berms, tables, boulders, drops, etc.?
- What are the main differences between the '07 & '08 models? Do you recommend getting an '07 at discount or is it worth splurging for the '08?
- What's the average weight you have yours at?
- Do you feel them to be modifiable or rather limited in upgrade capacity?

Thanks kids!!
 
#52 ·
So I just read the Perp review in the new MB Action magazine and damn; not a good review at all. I'll certainly trust Pinkbike's review (which was in stark contrast) instead as I feel they're more of a FR/DH community and know their sh*t moreso than the XCers over at MB Action. BUT I can see their point about the cockpit - I imagine if you're used to pure DH geometry for DH runs, then the Perp must take some getting used to with it's shorter wheelbase, higher BB, and steeper head angle.
 
#53 ·
well, there's two judges for sale over here in ville du rain, and luckily i don't need one. what the hell are one supposed to do with 220mm of travel. insanity! hehe. no don't get me wrong, it would be really, really fun to try one. never ridden on a bike with that much travel before.

yeah, some people have some issues with the high bb heights of the gem and perp, but i would think it's just a benefit. i dunno. i've smacked the pedals into stones with my prophet and i've even thought i was superman for some on some occasions, but gravity would have it otherwise. so i kinda think a little bit of an high bb would be good for freeriding. i think the perp would be a perfect bike for larking about on. or, after my commencal supreme ;-) couldn't resist it. (i'm still thinking, what would i need 180-200mm of travel for? hehe)
 
#54 ·
Kevin G said:
So I just read the Perp review in the new MB Action magazine and damn; not a good review at all. I'll certainly trust Pinkbike's review (which was in stark contrast) instead as I feel they're more of a FR/DH community and know their sh*t moreso than the XCers over at MB Action. BUT I can see their point about the cockpit - I imagine if you're used to pure DH geometry for DH runs, then the Perp must take some getting used to with it's shorter wheelbase, higher BB, and steeper head angle.
The difference in wheelbase between the large Perp and large Judge is 0.4". I doubt anyone here would be able to tell the difference in wheelbase between the two.
 
#55 ·
Sure; it's more than just the wheelbase - it's the combo of all geometry specs. I don't think anyone would say they feel no difference between the Judge and Perp cockpits. Personally I felt a big one, which is why I plan on getting both bikes. One will be my sportscar and the other my SUV. And my Prophet is up for sale. :thumbsup:
 
#61 ·
Man Kevin G you really got me thinking now. I have a Prophet too, which I honestly don't ride much. Your making me want to swap over all the parts from my Judge to the Perp frame, save the Judge frame, then next season get a single crown for the Perp (Zocchi 66 probably) then just build up the Judge as a sick race bike. Lighter wheels, front fork, etc. What do you think?
 
#62 ·
Good ideas, Prophet. My plan is to make the Perp as light as possible as I want to use that bike for my local riding. And keep the Judge reserved for bike parks and when I feel the need for speed. I'll take the Perp to the bike park too when I crave the gnarly (i.e. super rocky, ladders, etc.) but flatter trails. Since I'm not into long XC runs nor a lot of climbing, the Prophet doesn't make sense for me to keep. I'm banking a lot though on the Perp being fun to use outside of bike parks. By the way, how are you getting just a new Perp frame? Didn't know they sell 'em that way. I plan to sell my Prophet hopefully for around $1500 and then get the base Perp 3 for $2000; and build up as time goes on. My Prophet is currently at 36 lbs and the Perp 3 is supposed to be around 41, so the weight difference won't be much; but the fun factor, hell yeah!

P.S. As I studied and obsessed over the geometries for my one "DH/FR" bike, I realized that they're really 2 different bikes; which is why I plan the Judge for DH and Perp for FR. But they can also be interchanged depending on the geometry I'd be craving on a particular day. Do I want slack and fast, or upright and air?

Klink> How much would you pay for the ISX4?
 
#63 ·
True that. Sounds like you got yourself a plan and I might not be selling my Judge frame. I think I might slowly build it up over the winter, try to go for a light race build and use the Perp for the heavy freeride stuff. Thinkin' maybe Boxxer WC, Hope hubs to DT 5.1 rims, Avid Juicy Carbon Brakes... just a thought right now. I work at a shop so I asked the rep to help me out. You can get just the frame, it just makes more sense usually to get the whole bike.

And heres a picture of the Judge in action for you...
 
#64 ·
I think I just decided to cancel my Perp order. I really dont know what I want to do. Im thinking now about just waiting until next season to decide what I want to do. Maybe I'll start hitting the gym and swap out some lighter parts, then maybe I can move that thing around better. Only the winter will tell.

By the way Kevin G, what Judge are you getting?
 
#65 ·
Is that you on the Judge? Sweet shot!

My local shop ordered an '07 Judge 1 for me on closeout; amazing prices now!

Watching the pros throw around the Judge and get good air certainly makes it look possible. Have you watched Sick Mick in Sevenvision? Or GR's recent Diablo video?

You should get a good 1 lb savings by simply switching in the Boxxer WC. What about running a single ring? Lighter cranks? Hannah's got his Judge at 42; check here. CVD has his at 37/38!!
 
#68 ·
Kevin G said:
Is that you on the Judge? Sweet shot!

My local shop ordered an '07 Judge 1 for me on closeout; amazing prices now!

Watching the pros throw around the Judge and get good air certainly makes it look possible. Have you watched Sick Mick in Sevenvision? Or GR's recent Diablo video?

You should get a good 1 lb savings by simply switching in the Boxxer WC. What about running a single ring? Lighter cranks? Hannah's got his Judge at 42; check here. CVD has his at 37/38!!
Nice! You will be happy with it and the Perp too! Yea thats me on the Judge. Ive watched all of GR's stuff and Sick Mick is well...sick thats for sure. Im currently running a single ring and ive been thinking about light cranks actually. Maybe some Holzfeller OCT. I had my Judge down to 42 lbs. as you see it in that action shot with different wheels, but I love my Ringle/729 wheelset that comes stock, pretty bombproof. Heres a list of ideas that I think you should look into for the Judge:
1. Change the brakes...Hayes El Camino are crap. Ive run Codes all season and they are great.
2. Get an Gamut or E.13 Chainguide. Ive been running a 36 tooth front ring all summer and have been happy.
3. If you ride in rocky conditions, get thicker tires. The single plys that come stock arent bad, but are prone to flatting. I gave Kendas a try this weekend and had a terrible experience. Im on to giving Specialized tires a try. So far they feel good.
4. Look at your options for a cartiage upgrade (or springs depending on how heavy you are) for the front fork or look at a new fork. I weigh 175 and at the beginning I could push the fork all the way down just by leaning on it. I swapped out to RC2 cartiages and firm springs and its money now.
5. Make sure your main pivot stays tight. And always check the link/shock bolt for play/looseness, very common.

Other then that, enjoy the ride!

Upgrades Ive done:
RC2 Cartiages, Compression/Rebound with firm springs
E.13 STS 36 tooth chainguide
Sram X9 Short Cage
Sram PG-990 Cassette
Specialized Pin it Tires
Avid Code 203mm Brakes with Straitline Lever Upgrade
ODI Oury Lock ons
 
#69 ·
Thanks for the recommendations. Definitely going to go single ring on the Judge. Not sure why they even spec this with 2. Oury lock-ons are a given for me; love 'em. Same for Codes. Chain guide wise, I'll look at the e.13. Want to compare this with MRP's offerings. For cranks, you may want to check out the new Bones Lite; I have the heavier version (Chro-Mo) on my Prophet and think they're great.

So as you're re-thinking your situation, so am I. May not sell the Prophet after all. I do love this bike and it may be good to have a trail bike at hand. What I plan to do though is lighten it up. Still want a Perp too. Will save up some money for an '08 one soon.

Can't wait to get the Judge! Too bad Northstar will be closed though. But maybe it's for the better; want to take the off season to really get used to it and dial it in for next year.
 
#70 ·
#71 · (Edited)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
hi mountain dudes, i am just back from whistler with my perp. i can say my perp was a dream one garbanzo"all double black daimod trails" -whistler trail- slayer and A line!!! and there are some BRUTE Rock Gardens and drops....
i never change to a nother bike. this bike like the air time. i ride the Large perp, i am 5'10 and this size fits me perfect.
before i ride a medium judge this bike is to short for me, the large perp is between the medium and large judge. so, go for the perp!!!
"i hafe many judge,m3, v10, dhr, comencal and foes back on my ass, but they can't smoke my perp!!" :D :D :D
for me bike parts visit: https://www.booch.ch/bike.html



 
#72 ·
Nice, brother; beautiful Perp! Now you got me wondering about size. I'm 5'10" too and ride a M Prophet (which is perfect for me). Ordered a M Judge so I hope this is OK. Now I'm wondering about Perp size when I get to ordering this. Sat on a M in the store and the cockpit did feel slightly tight; but I figured if I push the seat back a touch it would be OK. Would prefer to go smaller and easier to handle rather than larger and harder to handle. Thoughts anyone?
 
#73 · (Edited)
Kevin G said:
Nice, brother; beautiful Perp! Now you got me wondering about size. I'm 5'10" too and ride a M Prophet (which is perfect for me). Ordered a M Judge so I hope this is OK. Now I'm wondering about Perp size when I get to ordering this. Sat on a M in the store and the cockpit did feel slightly tight; but I figured if I push the seat back a touch it would be OK. Would prefer to go smaller and easier to handle rather than larger and harder to handle. Thoughts anyone?
yes, the medium perp is smaller than the medium judge!!
the size is personally.. when i ride the medium judge i hit any time the fox40 stansions with my knee. and you stay much more on the front wheel... the large perp is like the medium DHR and this size i ride for month... for me is the large perp perfect. but if you go to a medium than go to the medium judge NOT to the medium perp with 5.10" but i feel better on the perp its handle smooth, and with the boxxer the head angel is ready for DH to!! the biggest minus on me judge was the slack 64" head angle with the fox 40. but if you put a boxxer on it i think it will be perfect..
 
#74 ·
Thanks. Am actually getting both the Perp and the Judge (assuming I sell my Prophet). Already ordered a medium Judge; just wondering now about the Perp. Maybe a large is better for me? Will be running a single crown on the Perp since this will be my trail/AM/FR ride and the Judge will sport the 888 for DH usage. I notice the Perp comes in XL whereas the Judge only L so maybe that explains the size differences (meaning the Perps run a bit smaller)?
 
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