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  1. #1
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    Lefty vs traditional

    Are there any real fuunctional advantages of a lefty in comparison with the traditional shock except lefty's appealing look? I like its look because it is defferent but can that justify the only reason to pass to that kind of suspension? Besides, reading that forum convinces me about numerous issues with lefties.

  2. #2
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    Yep, do a search on this forum to find more info. Stiffer, lighter, no stiction.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba74 View Post
    Yep, do a search on this forum to find more info. Stiffer, lighter, no stiction.
    Poor compression settings, bearing migration, constant maintenance, most LBS cant/ wont do any work on them. Have to mail them away to get rebuilt. Pain in the butt to use on a normal rack where the front wheel has to come off, same with putting in car, was easier to take rear wheel off. Whats not to love? I loved mine so much that I had to share it with someone else for a small relocation fee.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Poor compression settings, bearing migration, constant maintenance, most LBS cant/ wont do any work on them. Have to mail them away to get rebuilt. Pain in the butt to use on a normal rack where the front wheel has to come off, same with putting in car, was easier to take rear wheel off. Whats not to love? I loved mine so much that I had to share it with someone else for a small relocation fee.
    Many newer forks have a 15mm or 20mm thru axle so "normal" racks are usually big mouths. Constant maintenance is not true at all for my lefty max 140. TPC has good compression adjustments. Rebuilding is not hard, and I've only had to do it twice in 5 years. Maintenance is about 30 minutes worth every couple of weeks....cmon

    He asked about advantages on a Cannondale forum. I gave him advantages that are true for every lefty available. You listed problems specific to your lefty, and you didn't even say WHICH lefty you had

  5. #5
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Gotta love a high quality hater.....
    Last edited by MendonCycleSmith; 07-30-2011 at 10:25 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Opps did I say the lefty had problem in a cannondale forum? Time to get all upset and offended?. Its ok, I TRIED to like mine to. I agree that most new forks have 20mm or 15mm axles but I DONT need to take my front brake off to use a fork up. I had a 2009 PBR just FYI since for some reason that matters to you, If you search the forum you notice that the compression settings such as fork dive and no low speed compression or adding to much air to compensate caused a loss in travel.
    30 mins every week (i ride 5 to 6 days a week) is a bit over the top for "normal" maintenance. They dont ask you to pull the hub apart every other week, or bottom bracket, or headset or bleed brakes or service the bearings or pull the rear shock apart and beat on it to get it back to the length that it came from the factory at, or take your tires off just to look at the inside to make sure that they are still black. So with that said the lefty would require MORE attention that ANYTHING else on the bike.
    I understand your a lefty fan boy and reading antilefty things in this forum gets you all worked up, but he did ask for advantages and so I gave him a few. Some people just like things having to be harder then they need to be. So maybe he liked working on his bike all the time the lefty would be a great match for him on a gt i-drive bike, then he can do bearing on both the fork and the back every few rides.Hopefully I have cleared up what i posted but for some reason I have a feeling you are going to reply to defend the honor of the lefty add some more eye rolling smilies, imply that i never had a lefty, tell me that i should enjoy taking time to fix my fork all the time and then throw a.....cmon like i dont have anything better to do then sit in my garage and work on my bike. All of these i will ignore, have a great day, enjoy your lefty I will be out riding while your greasing bearing and beating on your fork.

  7. #7
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    Really?? From a shop?? Good PR there.

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Gota love a high quality hater.....
    You sir are correct, How many do you have waiting to be fixed? or have fixed? If i was the leading lefty fixer in the nation then i also would want more people to buy "quality". I dont blame you. Its all good we all need to keep the lights on.

  8. #8
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    Well.. I've been riding Lefty's since they came out and have NEVER had a problem with ANY of them. I've had several of the original DLR's, DLR2 alloy, DLR2 Carbon, MAX 140 alloy, MAX 140 TPC, MAX 140 SPV, MAX 140 SPV Carbon, MAX 140 PBR alloy, DLR2 Alloy PBR, and I just bought an Ultra 120 PBR alloy that should be here Tueday. I've done nothing more than ocassional bearing resets and race cleaning/greasing. For me, I love Leftys.. for the redneck.. I think he made the right choice in not riding them. Lisaped- give one a try- if you don't like it sell it and enjoy the fact that you made up your own mind based upon personal experiences and not the opinions of someone who obviously has had nothing but negative experiences with them.
    Last edited by vitaccop; 07-30-2011 at 09:26 PM.

  9. #9
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    I love my Lefty for general "All-Mountain" riding. Resetting the bearings takes all of 3 minutes, and that's the only "regular" maintenance I perform. My Max140 has held up extremely well to hard Tahoe riding.

    That being said, it is certainly not a FR or DH shock. It has its place, just like everything else available. If you're into taking big hits, I would definitely NOT recommend a Lefty. If you're on the XC side of All-Mountain, I certainly think it's a worthwhile consideration.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Poor compression settings, bearing migration, constant maintenance, most LBS cant/ wont do any work on them. Have to mail them away to get rebuilt. Pain in the butt to use on a normal rack where the front wheel has to come off, same with putting in car, was easier to take rear wheel off. Whats not to love? I loved mine so much that I had to share it with someone else for a small relocation fee.
    Take it to your local suspension service shop? The guys at my local shop love the Lefty. Forget the bike shop. Bike shops don't know diddly squat about Lefties.

  11. #11
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    Man, that's cold

    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    You sir are correct, How many do you have waiting to be fixed? or have fixed? If i was the leading lefty fixer in the nation then i also would want more people to buy "quality". I dont blame you. Its all good we all need to keep the lights on.
    Accusing the top Lefty guy in the country of encouraging people to buy Leftys to pad his bottom line.

    I can tell you first hand, Mendon does excellent work, and from what he charged me vs. the amount of work he's done for me, he's not getting rich off the deal.

    I'm not saying you are flat out wrong in your assessment, but the point I would make to you is that the Porsche needs more maintenance than the Toyota, and is harder to find a good dealer to work on them. And really, I've had as many issues with my Lefty as I've had with my Rebas. I have a Reba that I've completely replaced the seals on, but it still sags down over the course of a ride. I think a coil conversion is in its future.

    But... the maintenance isn't bad. The benefits greatly outweigh the headaches, IMO. The things just feel like buttah.

    IMO, Leftys are not for the rider with no mechanical skills, or ignores his bike until something breaks. I know a guy who brings his bike to the LBS to get air put in his shocks because he can't figure out how to do it himself. He's not the guy who should buy a Lefty.

    The regular maintenance is pretty easy to do, and you have to remember to do it, or bad things will happen.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    I loved mine so much that I had to share it with someone else for a small relocation fee.


    That's a good one !!!!!
    I think it's gonna go as my signature !!
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  13. #13
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    I'm sad to say that I've been underwhelmed by mine. Yeah, it felt OK, nothing special and TBH I can take or leave the looks.

    Things I liked: It is stiff. Is it any stiffer than a 15mm or 20mm thru axle fork of comparable weight? I dunno. Does the extra stiffness make a huge difference with a softly inflated 2.25 tyre wallowing around underneath? I'm not sure.

    Can change front tyre without pulling wheel off.

    I actually like fork boots as they keep crap away from the seals.

    People stare and ask questions.

    What I don't like: No external compression adjustment (Lefty DLR Speed 110)

    Proprietary hub means no swapping wheelsets around unless the front hub matches.

    Left stem - much harder and more expensive to change stems.

    Not a very smooth fork compared to most others I've used.

    Mine crapped itself after 14 months. Yep, two months outside warranty. Lockout stopped working, rebound stopped working.

    Getting it fixed - I'm in Australia and mine was away for five weeks and came back with less small bump sensitivity and a slight "knock" at the top when locked out. So it seems it got sent away to an "expert technician" who wasn't an "expert."


    Would I have another one? Not on your life. I'd compare Lefty ownership to having a very attractive girlfriend - looks great, people stare and some envy but you are the sucker that has to put up with it's crap behind the scenes. And she doesn't perform any better than a "girl next door" anyway.
    Less isn't MOAR

  14. #14
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    this is the best fork ever (stiffer and lighter), but at the same time this is the most problematic fork ever. Be prepared to spend more time for maintenance.

    Also, for me a disadvantage is that once you are with Lefty you become a "hostage" of cannondale, I mean you have lefty specific wheels, that you can use only on it... and switching to another brand is very hard/expensive.

  15. #15
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    Would all the haters feel better if I said that everytime someone rides a bike with a Lefty God kills a kitten?

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    I have Lefty CARBON MAX PBR 130 mm. it feels pretty stiff and very smooth, eats up every small bump. Also the bearings have more life in it than bushings. You dont have to worry about cashima coating or what have you and clean it after every ride.
    What I dont like is its diving a little bit over a hard breaking or on steepy slopes. maybe it's no longer a problem for 2010 lefties and hereafter.
    I also had two of the bearings migrated and none of the standard proceedure did help. The lenght dropped from 720mm recommended to 675mm. So I decided to pull it apart for myself (as Sideknob I dont have any secvice around). All I can say if you have some mechanical skills and some tools you can do it yourself. It's not that ease as with traditional forks, but you can make it at home and save some bucks and time.

  17. #17
    No good in rock gardens..
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitaccop View Post
    Would all the haters feel better if I said that everytime someone rides a bike with a Lefty God kills a kitten?
    Well the OP asked for opinions.

    Not just positive ones....
    Less isn't MOAR

  18. #18
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    lisaped ,
    you can also check out this thread Lefty vs bushings' forks

  19. #19
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    Well, compared to other forks I've had the lefty is far superior and much, much stiffer....not to mention the weight reduction (if it's mounted to a cdale frame that is).
    Maintenance is not really a concern unless you ride a lot in the rain, cross creeks or ride really tight singletracks/switchback with thorn bushes which might tear up the boot.
    With the right tools an oil change takes less than 30min. and for an complete overhaul every 2 years or so you can simply send the cartridge or entire strut to places like Mendoncyclesmith which will not cost you that much either with a turn around time of maybe a week...
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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  20. #20
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WlRqcAQr2w



    Thanx Fudja , convincing video in this thread
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  21. #21
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    I have been riding my carbon lefty speed 110 for 2 years now, running it XC and XC races. I like it because it is light, and stiff. In terms of suspension performance I have been pretty happy with it. The small bump compliance is excellent IMO, and it takes larger bumps well. Another good point is it does dive on tight corners like some other forks I have tried.

    The key for me was to find the right air pressure, through trial and error. For me just setting the sag while seated does not cut it. I would set the air pressure a little higher than the suggested sag and then adjust it until I was happy with the small bump compliance on the trail.

  22. #22
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    My two cents on the thread: I loved my lefty max carbon 140 from a 2005 Cannondale Prophet (God Rest Its Soul) that I moved it to my 2009 Titus Motolite (XTR build) and scrapped the 15mm axle Fox Float R (140 mm travel also). No comparison. The lefty is lighter, stiffer, smoother, quieter and off course cooler. Where I point it, it simply goes and sticks the line. Especially off-camber. Awesome. And yes, a similar wheel set (819/Omega for lefty vs 719/XT for the Fox) was used so a fair comparison is being made here. I had my doubts it would be better. But its so clearly better that I wonder why such a discussion even comes up beteween such serious bike folks as you find on this forum as to which is better - for general purpose trail riding. If a 2005 lefty works this good (courtesy of only 2 Mendoncycle rebuilds over the last 6 years, thanks Craig you the man), I imagine the latest versions must really be impressive.
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  23. #23
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    You sir are correct, How many do you have waiting to be fixed? or have fixed? If i was the leading lefty fixer in the nation then i also would want more people to buy "quality". I dont blame you. Its all good we all need to keep the lights on.
    Sheesh....

    I love a good debate, spirited input, the good, the bad, etc.

    What I don't enjoy is an opinion delivered in such a vituperative manner that it renders the point of it's existence, irrelevant.

    You'll note I take no issues with others postings here, and I'd only say to the folks who have a problem with the proprietary hub, if all your bikes had Leftys, you could swap wheels quite easily!

    You had a bad experience, bummer. Sounds like you're better off with a fork that doesn't require any upkeep at all. All good, buy a Fox, and enjoy that "legendary" sticky and less than promised/advertised travel. All for about the same coin as a Lefty.

    Also, fixed is a relative term. Serviced? Many, some are more than 10 years old and still going strong. Others are newer, and in for the oil change they need, just like any other brand. Sure, some are broken, but try to get your non sliding frozen up dual slider good as new for $60 in parts, ain't gonna happen.

    Had a Fox in last week, with gouged up stanchions, a Rock Shox that did the same thing. Had a Manitou puke oil all over itself, a Rock Shox lose it's lockout, had a Marzocchi lose the ability to hold air, my own White Brothers Fluid 150 needed seals last winter and a new bolt since the hollow alloy one snapped as it was being removed, the list goes on. As a buddy of mine says, everything goes away, get used to it.

    And if I'm trying to keep the lights on with Leftys? I guess PUSH Industries, Hippie Tech, Garage Works, Shockspital, QBP's Shock Treatment Center etc etc etc, as well as all the service centers at the makers themselves, must be sitting around, so sad and poor from lack of work.
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  24. #24
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    Advantages as many above have noted, lighter, stiffer, works better,etc. what is not to like you may ask?

    In my view, it is the ignorance by those who either have not tried one or do not understand the technology.

    I have ridden with people who are so put off by the look that they were afraid to even test ride it, fearing it might break or pull wildly to one side etc.

    As Mendon noted and I will second, high performance assemblies require certain maintenence and service, this should not come as news.
    Last edited by ASI CA; 08-01-2011 at 11:40 AM.
    Forks are for eating, Lefty's are for racing,

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    I understand your a lefty fan boy and reading antilefty things in this forum gets you all worked up, but he did ask for advantages and so I gave him a few. Some people just like things having to be harder then they need to be. So maybe he liked working on his bike all the time the lefty would be a great match for him on a gt i-drive bike, then he can do bearing on both the fork and the back every few rides.Hopefully I have cleared up what i posted but for some reason I have a feeling you are going to reply to defend the honor of the lefty add some more eye rolling smilies, imply that i never had a lefty, tell me that i should enjoy taking time to fix my fork all the time and then throw a.....cmon like i dont have anything better to do then sit in my garage and work on my bike. All of these i will ignore, have a great day, enjoy your lefty I will be out riding while your greasing bearing and beating on your fork.
    First off, I'm not a lefty fanboy. My next bike will most likely not have a lefty on it because I'm looking at other brands.

    Second, I was pointing out that you did nothing to answer the OP's question,

    Quote Originally Posted by lisaped View Post
    Are there any real fuunctional advantages of a lefty in comparison with the traditional shock except lefty's appealing look?
    All you did was sarcastically state your own negative experiences. All I did was counter all of your experiences with my own.

    Again, since you like them so much.........and I'll add a little for not reading the OP's post.

  26. #26
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    3 pairs of Foxes in our house. All well maintained. All 3 show heavy stanchion wear after 2-3 years of use, which, due to their construction, means pretty much means throwing them away and buying new forks. It does seem odd, when you think about it, to design a suspension device where the wearing surface is also a key structural element...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimification View Post
    3 pairs of Foxes in our house. All well maintained. All 3 show heavy stanchion wear after 2-3 years of use, which, due to their construction, means pretty much means throwing them away and buying new forks. It does seem odd, when you think about it, to design a suspension device where the wearing surface is also a key structural element...
    Back in the day, most forks with any form of oil or air internals had fork boots / gaiters on them. It became non-trendy to have those. Why I don't know - you'd reckon boots would keep a lot of abrasive crap away from the stanchions and seals in the first place. Most dirt bikes with non-inverted forks still have boots to protect the seals and stanchions.
    Less isn't MOAR

  28. #28
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    I have a Lefty Max 140 TPC. It is stiff, light and has no stiction. I can change a front tire without removing the wheel. Bearing resets are easy. I love my Lefty. 140 mm of consistent travel.

    It looks really cool when you ride with no hands. (You can)
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

  29. #29
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    as for stiffness you can check out this one
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfDuAE8HdX4

  30. #30
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    That video is a tad flawed. Your g force in a turn is not as lateral as he shows. As you turn you lean and when you lean the g force is in line with your shock.

    Also do you really want as much response in a turn, with less tread contact, and now have the suspension moving? I personally like a more predictable behavior in a turn. Usually your speed is much slower also which also translates to less g. Rider technique will also know to have less speed in more technical turns also.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post

    Also do you really want as much response in a turn, with less tread contact, and now have the suspension moving? I personally like a more predictable behavior in a turn. Usually your speed is much slower also which also translates to less g. Rider technique will also know to have less speed in more technical turns also.
    this is true - good riders know they need to slow down for turns because their conventional forks bind and flex.

    great point.
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  32. #32
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    Until you show a "fact" with the actual real numbers of this I'll keep my engineering degree.

    I like the lefties and think they are great, just pointing out where I see errors.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Until you show a "fact" with the actual real numbers of this I'll keep my engineering degree.

    I like the lefties and think they are great, just pointing out where I see errors.
    Why would I need to show ""fact" with actual real numbers"? You have already conceded that conventional forks BIND - you simply argue that this binding is somehow a performance benefit. Engineering degree or not, you obviously do not understand the purpose or benefit of suspension.

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  34. #34
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    I never said anything about bind. Please quote me where I state the due to binding you will get less travel.

    I didn't. I said less speed, which means less g in the turn which means less travel in the shock.

    The point is the video shows abnormal unrealistic forces at work compared to what really happens in a ride.

    I do understand the benefit of suspension and have no clue how you come to that conclusion.

    And a repost of the same video link really doesn't mean anything. Still doesn't address the reality.

    Just admit you made an unfair inference/assumption in your first response to me. You know it was in jest and now are flip flopping.

  35. #35
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    I have an engineering degree too. I've seen plenty of videos on Lefty vs traditional forks and how they perform under cornering and breaking forces.

    Sorry Hiway, I don't know what type of Engineering degree you have as there are many different disciplines, but I have to disagree with you on your understanding of the Lefty performance. Having the suspension move freely in response to terrain under all conditions is preferable to having it bind up under stress and lock out its travel, forcing the movement up through the bike into the rider for him to absorb. May as well swap it out for a rigid fork for all the good it does!

  36. #36
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    Never said "bind up under stress" to result in locking out it's travel.

    Glad I also took some reading comprehension when I got my engineering degree (aeronautical with minor in basic).

    My overall point is the actual REAL forces in REAL applications are not as high as highlighted by the video.

    Others have stated basically the same points. Also not degrading or making a negative over the leftie type forks. I think they are great, but I just dislike videos that are a bit misleading.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    That video is a tad flawed. Your g force in a turn is not as lateral as he shows. As you turn you lean and when you lean the g force is in line with your shock.

    Also do you really want as much response in a turn, with less tread contact, and now have the suspension moving? I personally like a more predictable behavior in a turn. Usually your speed is much slower also which also translates to less g. Rider technique will also know to have less speed in more technical turns also.
    So you think its better to not have the suspension moving while turning? wouldnt that give you LESS contact since its bouncing over the irregularities of the surface and not staying in contact?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post

    Also do you really want as much response in a turn, with less tread contact, and now have the suspension moving? I personally like a more predictable behavior in a turn. Usually your speed is much slower also which also translates to less g. Rider technique will also know to have less speed in more technical turns also.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    I never said anything about bind. Please quote me where I state the due to binding you will get less travel.

    Just admit you made an unfair inference/assumption in your first response to me.
    See above. You CLEARLY are singing the praises of less "response" and less "suspension movement" during a turn, and argue that a rider will slow down to limit the g's seen by a flexy/binding fork. These are not the words of a person who understands what suspension is supposed to do.


    See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by BritOnTour View Post
    I have an engineering degree too. I've seen plenty of videos on Lefty vs traditional forks and how they perform under cornering and breaking forces.

    Sorry Hiway, I don't know what type of Engineering degree you have as there are many different disciplines, but I have to disagree with you on your understanding of the Lefty performance. Having the suspension move freely in response to terrain under all conditions is preferable to having it bind up under stress and lock out its travel, forcing the movement up through the bike into the rider for him to absorb. May as well swap it out for a rigid fork for all the good it does!
    Spot on.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLMike View Post
    So you think its better to not have the suspension moving while turning? wouldnt that give you LESS contact since its bouncing over the irregularities of the surface and not staying in contact?
    No I am saying due to less speed in a leaned turn means less induced travel due to less force.

    Basically I think it boils down to rider preference and style of riding (contact vs. controlled drift).

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpjumpy View Post
    See above.

    See below.



    Spot on.
    You are just baiting and trolling now and know that nothing quoted affirms your inference. Nothing I said supports your viewpoint. I even clarified since you made an unfair assumption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    You are just baiting and trolling now and know that nothing quoted affirms your inference. Nothing I said supports your viewpoint. I even clarified since you made an unfair assumption.
    Seems like quite a few people are trolling you and unfairly misunderstanding you, then.
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  42. #42
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    OK, i understand how Hiway thinks the video demo is flawed. It shows the Lefty fork working normally under way more stress than you would ever see riding a bike on a trail. Thing is, as a demo, it goes above and beyond proving that a Lefty fork can operate normally under extreme conditions, which proves that it also operates normally under any possible situation you might experience on a trail.

    The comparison with the traditional fork shows how little force is needed to cause stiction, preventing it from absorbing bumps when needed.

    For a suspension device to do its job, it needs to compress to absorb bumps & expand when the bump is removed. All without transferring that force through to the rider. Stiction along with spring (air or coil, doesn't matter) loading & rebound dampening all affect this process. Lefty forks deal with the stiction in a way that traditional forks cannot.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Basically I think it boils down to rider preference and style of riding (contact vs. controlled drift).
    You are now advocating a controlled front wheel drift induced by poor suspension compliance vs. front wheel grip maintained via excellent suspension compliance.

    You are espousing the "benefits" of a rigid bike vs. a well-suspended one . . . whether you know it or not.
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    The point is those forces are not impacting real world applications.

    Talk to the guy who won on a Scott 650b set up with conventional fork. Talk to the team who won on Specialized FS conventional forks.

    You really think they are losing speed in the turns due to binding?

    Until you can show me some actual proof that this is happening in real world races then I'll just pay attention to normal forces and not staged demos.

    I love the leftie design on Cannondale, but I don't like it when people use some unrealistic "test" to highlight a design feature.

    I suppose these riders are slower in the turns due to binding and just that superior to make up that time in the straight aways....

    Sounds ridiculous doesn't it.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    The point is those forces are not impacting real world applications.

    Talk to the guy who won on a Scott 650b set up with conventional fork. Talk to the team who won on Specialized FS conventional forks.

    You really think they are losing speed in the turns due to binding?

    Until you can show me some actual proof that this is happening in real world races then I'll just pay attention to normal forces and not staged demos.

    I love the leftie design on Cannondale, but I don't like it when people use some unrealistic "test" to highlight a design feature.

    I suppose these riders are slower in the turns due to binding and just that superior to make up that time in the straight aways....

    Sounds ridiculous doesn't it.


    If a guy can beat you around a course on his son's tricycle, does that mean that he has better equipment than you?

    Sounds ridiculous does it not.

    Different technology excels in different contexts for different riders, whether it be 29" wheels, full suspension, SS, rigid or whatever.

    Pro racers race whatever they are PAID to race. For years, many have been winning races despite this. Pointing to isolated race results as proof of design is just plain stupid.

    Lefty's win a lot of races, perhaps even a disproportionate amount - is that proof of superior design/performance?
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    Still can't get my conventional fork to bind in a turn. Just did a basic test and noticed NO binding in real conditions.

    All those winners riding bikes that are flawed are so slow in turns due to this design imperfection! (sarcasm)

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    You realize that binding does not have to mean full lock-out of the fork, right? That's worst case sceanario and may only happen for a split second w/ a good dual stanchion fork. More often, the forks bind and while not locking-out completely, the effective spring rate becomes MUCH higher than spec,

    But, I know, according to you - this is exactly what one wants to happen mid-turn.
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    Also didn't notice much front suspension movement at typical speeds over any terrain in a TURN.

    Not even close to the amount of force needed to bind a conventional fork. Also watched some video online with particular attention on front suspensions during turns in any terrain.

    They really weren't going fast. Funny how that is.

    Kind of proves the point that the forces needed to cause bind in the first place are unrealistic in real world applications.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Also didn't notice much front suspension movement at typical speeds over any terrain in a TURN.

    Not even close to the amount of force needed to bind a conventional fork. Also watched some video online with particular attention on front suspensions during turns in any terrain.

    They really weren't going fast. Funny how that is.

    Kind of proves the point that the forces needed to cause bind in the first place are unrealistic in real world applications.
    so what youre saying is you watched a bunch of videos of people riding slow in the corners.....

    then you went out and rode your own bike slow in the corners....

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    That video is a tad flawed. Your g force in a turn is not as lateral as he shows. As you turn you lean and when you lean the g force is in line with your shock.

    Also do you really want as much response in a turn, with less tread contact, and now have the suspension moving? I personally like a more predictable behavior in a turn. Usually your speed is much slower also which also translates to less g. Rider technique will also know to have less speed in more technical turns also.
    The G force will be in line with the fork. Trail input may not be, and likely not be. This will be more predictable rather than less. All forks will have have the same contact patch while leaning, allowing the suspension to do its job rather the have the tire bounce will keep that contact. At least that's the way it seems to me, but what the hell do I really know? It's all conjecture without any real tests.
    All I know is, I've had a Fox and now have a Lefty. Overall as far as performance goes, I would say I prefer the lefty. It just feels smoother. My biggest complaint on performance would be that it can be "divey". Others have mentioned it during braking, but I've only noticed it on downhill tech sections. In particular, when I come across a feature with a larger initial angle (like a bigger rock than the rest) than the others on the trail.
    The Lefty does require more accommodations for travel. Wheel removal requires tools and you can't use a standard fork mount. You need to learn how to reset the bearings, which is quite easy and can be done in under two minutes with the PBR version. Of course, you have to take the time to learn how to do it. My Fox required a rebuild after two seasons, and now so did my lefty. I can say the lefty isn't necessarily more difficult to work on, but definitely requires more knowledge prior to the work. If you don't have that knowledge prior, then it's certainly more difficult.
    So will my next bike have a lefty? It really depends. If it's a Cannondale then it probably will. If it's something else then probably not. I wouldn't go through the effort to convert a bike to a lefty, but I wouldn't exclude a bike from purchase because it had one either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLMike View Post
    so what youre saying is you watched a bunch of videos of people riding slow in the corners.....

    then you went out and rode your own bike slow in the corners....
    No, that's not what I am saying.

    I am saying you have to ride SLOWER in a corner, especially in any type of corner that has terrain.

    Obvious you are trolling, but still fun to point out your lack of reading comprehension and your snarky assumptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaro View Post
    The G force will be in line with the fork. Trail input may not be, and likely not be. This will be more predictable rather than less. All forks will have have the same contact patch while leaning, allowing the suspension to do its job rather the have the tire bounce will keep that contact. At least that's the way it seems to me, but what the hell do I really know? It's all conjecture without any real tests.
    All I know is, I've had a Fox and now have a Lefty. Overall as far as performance goes, I would say I prefer the lefty. It just feels smoother. My biggest complaint on performance would be that it can be "divey". Others have mentioned it during braking, but I've only noticed it on downhill tech sections. In particular, when I come across a feature with a larger initial angle (like a bigger rock than the rest) than the others on the trail.
    The Lefty does require more accommodations for travel. Wheel removal requires tools and you can't use a standard fork mount. You need to learn how to reset the bearings, which is quite easy and can be done in under two minutes with the PBR version. Of course, you have to take the time to learn how to do it. My Fox required a rebuild after two seasons, and now so did my lefty. I can say the lefty isn't necessarily more difficult to work on, but definitely requires more knowledge prior to the work. If you don't have that knowledge prior, then it's certainly more difficult.
    So will my next bike have a lefty? It really depends. If it's a Cannondale then it probably will. If it's something else then probably not. I wouldn't go through the effort to convert a bike to a lefty, but I wouldn't exclude a bike from purchase because it had one either.
    Expect people to jump all over you for stating a mechanical fact.

    Love the lefty fork! It's a great weight saver and looks unique.

  53. #53
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    Not all turns are slow low G affairs.

    Some of us do take fast corners/turns, sometimes with roots/rocks etc. in the middle of them. Steering precision and fork compliance are much appreciated under such circumstances, as one is trying to pick ones way through and over stuff at high speed mid-turn.

    At the end of tha day, going fast is as much about rider confidence as anything, and the Lefty instills quite a bit of it.

    If your riding consists of newspaper delivery or trips around campus, than a Walmart Pacifica bike fork will do just fine. However, if you like to haul arse over truly gnarly terrain, rigidity/precision/compliance matters.
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    And seems to cause a great deal of ignorance for free.

    I love the lefties, but I don't praise things for unrealistic testing

    Trying to google faster cornering capability on a leftie and coming up empty! Shocker!

    Also can't find any complaints from anyone regarding binding in turns from conventional forks.

    I'm scratching my head big time!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post

    I'm scratching my head big time!
    Clearly.
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    So I take it you are equally confused by the LACK of complaints regarding binding in turns on conventional fork designs. I suppose you are too easily impressed by the subjective "confidence" you have with total ignorance given the facts regarding the matter.

    Forum pic seems a realistic and accurate xray of what is going on.

    I'm going to go twist some odd part on something I own in a unrealistic way and post it on you tube to impress the kiddies. Take it easy.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    No, that's not what I am saying.

    I am saying you have to ride SLOWER in a corner, especially in any type of corner that has terrain.

    Obvious you are trolling, but still fun to point out your lack of reading comprehension and your snarky assumptions.
    I dont have binding, so i dont have to ride slower in the corners... Maybe YOU have to ride SLOWER in the corners cause of the binding issues. I prefer not to change my riding style to adapt to an inferior design..

    Ok, so maybe im trolling a tad bit... but so are you.

    Youre trying to claim videos showing how the lefty doesnt bind as unscientific, yet you watch random videos of conventional forks during corners and claim you can tell there isnt a binding.

    I have the advantage of having both a bike with a lefty and a bike with a conventional fork (marzocchi tst2 with 20mm through axle). Personally, the Lefty feels so much smoother in the corners as it crosses surface obstructions like rocks and roots.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    So I take it you are equally confused by the LACK of complaints regarding binding in turns on conventional fork designs. I suppose you are too easily impressed by the subjective "confidence" you have with total ignorance given the facts regarding the matter.

    Forum pic seems a realistic and accurate xray of what is going on.

    I'm going to go twist some odd part on something I own in a unrealistic way and post it on you tube to impress the kiddies. Take it easy.
    Why do you think the 15mm and then the 20mm thru axle was created for double stanchion mtb forks? Why do you think DH and FR bikes come with dual crown forks (like a Lefty)?

    I will give you a hint:
    Its NOT because double stanchion mtb forks are flex/bind free.
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  59. #59
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    Wow, so you like Lefty forks, but you criticize the method used to demonstrate the improvements compared to standard forks? Then you argue that standard forks have nothing wrong with them and do the job just as good as a Lefty? You really know how to form an opinion don't you?

    Cards on the table now: Hiway, which is better in your mind? Lefty or regular fork?

    Follow on question: What do you have on your bike(s)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FLMike View Post
    I dont have binding, so i dont have to ride slower in the corners... Maybe YOU have to ride SLOWER in the corners cause of the binding issues. I prefer not to change my riding style to adapt to an inferior design..

    Ok, so maybe im trolling a tad bit... but so are you.

    Youre trying to claim videos showing how the lefty doesnt bind as unscientific, yet you watch random videos of conventional forks during corners and claim you can tell there isnt a binding.

    I have the advantage of having both a bike with a lefty and a bike with a conventional fork (marzocchi tst2 with 20mm through axle). Personally, the Lefty feels so much smoother in the corners as it crosses surface obstructions like rocks and roots.
    Feels huh? Sounds scientific....

    The point is you or anyone isn't adapting their ride due to fork design in the corners, and especially not due to some you tube video highlighting a unrealistic force being applied.

    Keep ignore the facts and trolling. It is a tad amusing.

    I, unlike you, like the lefties for a different reason which is based in actual facts. I like the weight savings. I also own one and love it.

    If anything the lower weight of the front sometimes causes me to want to slow down to the the "feeling" that I have less control. Funny how feelings are though. My times don't show any difference.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by BritOnTour View Post
    Wow, so you like Lefty forks, but you criticize the method used to demonstrate the improvements compared to standard forks? Then you argue that standard forks have nothing wrong with them and do the job just as good as a Lefty? You really know how to form an opinion don't you?

    Cards on the table now: Hiway, which is better in your mind? Lefty or regular fork?

    Follow on question: What do you have on your bike(s)?

    Yes I criticized the "test" because it wasn't a realistic test and didn't fit the real world application of the part being evaluated. That's all! I criticized a sensational test, yet you take that as being a negative of the actual part. Incredible reasoning...

    Anyway I think the resulting over engineering offers little in regards to real contrast to a conventional fork design. I have likes and dislikes regarding the lefties which have been sussed out many times on the forums. You can search and see the negatives also.

    I do have a leftie fork and I like it for certain applications and like the weight savings and appreciate the different look.

    I also own conventional forks due to the ease and price point of wheel/hub choices for the frame I have also.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    My times don't show any difference.
    "Times"?
    Really, what is your newspaper route ET?
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    In summary if this leftie design was so superior as the you tube video suggests they would dominate in real world races. No matter what or who is sponsoring if it was truly a superior design then there would be other forks like it without infringing on patents.

    For example look at the recent push for 650b wheel sizes over one recent race result!

    As with any component on any bike there are always advantages and disadvantages to all of them. I am simply stating the "advantages" touted by that video are unrealistic and sensational to promote the product.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post

    I, unlike you, like the lefties for a different reason which is based in actual facts.
    Its a fact that a Lefty is more rigid, compliant and has less stiction than any fork of similar weight/travel.

    You tacitly agree with the above facts, but seem to ride at such a snail's pace over such smooth terrain as to have no need/desire for a fork with great rigidity/compliance.

    Which is perfectly fine.
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    Don't think the whole ignore thing is dawning on him yet. I just see his name.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Don't think the whole ignore thing is dawning on him yet. I just see his name.
    Of course you have me on "ignore". You should prolly put everyone on "ignore", since you are clearly devoid of the intellect required to articulate an intelligent argument in support of anthing you say, and completely unable to articulate an intelligent rebuttal of anything anbody says that conflicts with your opinion.

    Ignore the world - ignorance is bliss.

    Speaking of "trolling" - you mean kinda like you did in this poor guy's thread: Lefty Jet 9 RDO & Lefty EMD 9

    Why did you resurect this 8 month-old Lefty thread?

    Have you ever posted ANYTHING on MTBR other than anti-Lefty BS rhetoric?
    Last edited by Stumpjumpy; 04-10-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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  67. #67
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    My LBS demonstrated conventional front fork binding (on a mid range Giant) by putting me on the bike with the front wheel butted up against a post in the shop. He held the bike from behind and pushed against it so there was pressure against the post and deflecting the front fork. It wasn't a whole lot of force either. He then asked me to try to compress the front fork while he modulated the pressure from behind. It bound up considerably. Lefty? Nope, no binding.

    I also think that the torqueing force (i.e. twist due to steering inputs or hitting obstacles at oblique angles) on the front forks causes significant binding that the Lefty shrugs off. This is a large part of the precision of the Lefty.

    The suspension of the Lefty continuing to work without binding during torqueing, lateral and fore-aft forces is the way a suspension should work. Binding is unpredictable, and trying to accomodate it is not what a competitive rider should be doing during a race, whether they do it intuitively, unconciously, or not.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    My LBS demonstrated conventional front fork binding (on a mid range Giant) by putting me on the bike with the front wheel butted up against a post in the shop. He held the bike from behind and pushed against it so there was pressure against the post and deflecting the front fork. It wasn't a whole lot of force either. He then asked me to try to compress the front fork while he modulated the pressure from behind. It bound up considerably. Lefty? Nope, no binding.

    I also think that the torqueing force (i.e. twist due to steering inputs or hitting obstacles at oblique angles) on the front forks causes significant binding that the Lefty shrugs off. This is a large part of the precision of the Lefty.

    The suspension of the Lefty continuing to work without binding during torqueing, lateral and fore-aft forces is the way a suspension should work. Binding is unpredictable, and trying to accomodate it is not what a competitive rider should be doing during a race, whether they do it intuitively, unconciously, or not.
    When you are on the trail compressed to a post or tree I think binding is the least of your worries. The fact is even that test is unrealistic and exhibiting a type of load you simply are not going to encounter without crashing.

    Tell you what go run into a tree from the side and let us know how it goes and how the leftie saved your life by being able to steer you out of that side impact....


    Like I said, the results in real world don't lie, the leftie is a nice piece of equipment and so was the Sony Betamax...

    I own the leftie on a Jet 9 and like it, but I am honest about the facts regarding the component and won't hide the in's and out's regarding them.

    To all of those traditional forks winning major races in very challenging terrain is evidence in itself. If the leftie were 'SUPERIOR" then you would see them used much more.

  69. #69
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    Keep it coming! You guys crack me up!!!
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdalemaniac View Post
    Keep it coming! You guys crack me up!!!
    Sorry man, I'm done!

  71. #71
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    I've had 4 Leftys on 3 different bikes over the past 10 years. Loved them all.

    I pretty much ride X-country in S. New England for the most part. Everyone I rode with in the early days thought I was an eccentric kook. A good number of these skeptics have converted.

    As for not having a competent LBS to work on them, that would be a bit of a bummer. I'm lucky that mine sells & services them expertly.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    When you are on the trail compressed to a post or tree I think binding is the least of your worries. The fact is even that test is unrealistic and exhibiting a type of load you simply are not going to encounter without crashing.

    Tell you what go run into a tree from the side and let us know how it goes and how the leftie saved your life by being able to steer you out of that side impact....


    Like I said, the results in real world don't lie, the leftie is a nice piece of equipment and so was the Sony Betamax...

    I own the leftie on a Jet 9 and like it, but I am honest about the facts regarding the component and won't hide the in's and out's regarding them.

    To all of those traditional forks winning major races in very challenging terrain is evidence in itself. If the leftie were 'SUPERIOR" then you would see them used much more.
    You are implying that those of us saying that the Lefty doesn't bind and that that fact is a good thing for riding are somehow lying? Great Scot!

    PLONK.

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    No, I am not saying that at all. I never said it was binding. Where did you get that from? I only stated that the popular linked test on you tube really doesn't relate to real world applications.

    I OWN and ride a lefty fork and think it's fine, but I am also honest enough to know that the test is utter BS when you consider real conditions.

    If binding were an issue then I seriously doubt people would be winning with such a handicap. I didn't buy and use the lefty due to any bind or lack thereof issue.

  74. #74
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    So Hiway now that you've over stated your point of really not liking a certain youtube video why don't you tell us why you actually ride a lefty then and/or picked that bike over another bike at the time.

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    Reread my posts. I think it's rather obvious if you actually read them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Expect people to jump all over you for stating a mechanical fact.

    Love the lefty fork! It's a great weight saver and looks unique.
    Because I could is also a reason. Just quoted an earlier post for the guy that wanted to flame me.

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    Humour me and summarize it for me. I'm just a fellow cyclist who's looking for some good pro's and con's on the lefty.

    Please don't deflect back to the video I really don't care about it. I want to hear honest pro and con's from people that have ridden them and use them on a daily biases. Not your cousin, what you've heard from the LBS or what you think is common. What are your guys experience's with the shock? Would you buy another one, if it serves a certain purpose what would you use it for? etc, etc.

  78. #78
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    This is just to add some fuel to this thread. All I care about is how smooth and linear the suspension is. I really don't care about the engineering behind it as long as it works, and boy does it work.

    I have a Scalpel 1 and I couldn't be happier. The front suspension compiled with the stiff frame and the light weight of the bike is the awesome .

    The front suspension really rocks. The liner compliance of the shock is outstanding. The best way I can explain this is by comparing it to the ride of the shocks of my other bikes I own. One bike has a Fox Shock RLC and the other a SID Rock Shock, both bikes being 29ers. One is an Anthem and the other is an Epic.

    On rooted sections is where I really feel a tremendous difference. Simply put, the Lefty rolls over the same bumps better than the other two shocks without any loss of forward momentum. There's no temporary loss of momentum nor immediate body weight transfer as when you encounter an uneven root or go through a group of rooted sections like I experience with the other two shocks. The front wheel doesn't feel like it stops even for a millisecond is the best way I can describe it, it just flows over the roots.

    In par with the other two shocks, the handling is first rate but the lefty feels more stable in a neutral way, it handles the bumps in the middle of a turn without upsetting your line. It's just so smooth. If I take a bad line, I'm not worried about any major repercussions. It just flows.

    The other benefit is how well the bike climbs with this shock. I don't know whether or not it has to do with the shock or just the complete bike as a package, but the bike climbs much better than my other two bikes.

    To sum things up, If I ever were to do another frame build-up, I would start with a lefty.

    PS. If you haven't gotten the impression that I'm extremely pleased with the lefty, I have an Sworks Stumpy also and I'm seriously thinking of putting one on that bike too.

  79. #79
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    Yes, I'd concur with that....

    In particular, I did a weeks riding in the Sierra Nevada's (southern Spanish mountains) last summer. The downhills were of the slow, big rock, pick your way down the boulder-strewn switchbacks type. I was a little worried about being the only rider on a hardtail (Flash 29er carbon) but I found the lefty really helped on this sort of harsh terrain. As you come down over each rock onto the next, picking your line, the front wheel would plant and just not be nudged around like I was used to (with Fox Floats on my FS 26er) ...I'd steer it and it would just stay put instead of being shoved around by the rocks. I don't know if it's the lefty or OPI stem or what but the whole front end of the Flash feels incredibly solid yet very plush over the bumps.

    Rainreporter: It's funny you asking for personal impressions because I posted the same report in another thread here and one guy thought it was quite worthless, being a subjective impression rather than empirical test data from some lab....but what counts at the end of the day is "how does it ride?"...I'd say it's hard to go back to a normal fork once you've experienced the good life

    Other aspects:-

    - My lefty is 9 months old and has to go back to Cannondale once when the bearing strip came out of the upper leg!!. They said they'd never seen that happen before and was probably down to a defect in the bearing strip, so I believe that was just unlucky.
    - They need regular bearing resets (about every 20 hours) though that's really easy once you've done it the first time, takes 5 minutes.
    - They need regular greasing of the bearings but that is very easy to do.
    - Apart from that I'm anticipating getting mine serviced every other year, I'd send it off for that.
    - The OPI front end does get creaky if the grease dries out.
    - I was worried about it being a hassle to remove the front wheel. It's not. As long as you've got a hex key handy it only takes a few seconds more than a Q/R.
    Last edited by jimification; 04-11-2012 at 03:16 AM.

  80. #80
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    Had mine for about 6 months now. Reset the bearings once - took 5 min. Other than that routine "maintenance", I have done nothing and it has needed nothing.

    The thing is so rigid and so plush that it allows me to fly through and over gnarly stuff at speeds that I would not previously have attempted. Similarly, it gives me the ability to haul arse and make split second precise changes of gnarly line mid-corner if something looks TOO gnarly.

    Negatives? For me, none. Because of the types of racks on my vehicles, the front wheel never requires removal. I like my Lefty Mavic wheelsets. I weigh 220 and the fork never feels "divey" to me - just super plush yet big-hit capable when required.
    '95 M2 StumpJumper FS
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  81. #81
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    This is a post from an other rider on his impressions on the Scalpel 1:

    Originally Posted by Asbury
    So first ride out: wow! When I first starting riding I knew from experience the big wheels would make the turns flow much more. This bike was better than the Orbea though because it rarely lost contact with the ground, despite how rough things became. Riding on hardback with heavy leaf cover with a root/rock scattered here there, I did not feel like I could override this bike’s ability. I still did not push it to the limits, but I can say those limits are much greater than the Yeti’s. The adjective that kept running through my mind was “direct.” This bike is so precise, direct engagement of pedal input; direct feeling on the steering, direct shifting; everything just felt very “connected” if that makes sense. One example I’ll give is running over a loose rock in the middle of the trail. Previous bikes would absorb the impact and then give a secondary bounce to the left or right, leading to a rough or unstable feeling. The Scalpel addressed this with a very secure feeling lateral bounce and rested back down with a very direct/solid feel. I think this has mostly to do with the combination of the Lefty and big wheel, but also contributing to this is the very noticeably light front end. This is the lightest front end I have ever felt on a bike, which has included carbon forks and high end 26” wheel sets. The pedaling input also feels very stiff and direct. It is the stiffest pedal input of any frame I’ve ridden. I expected this because of the size of the PF30 BB and the massive seat stays and chain stays. One slight annoyance was that my calves would regularly hit the seat stay, nothing major and something I was able to overcome. On one climb that is very steep with rocks, I’d have problems spinning out on the Yeti. I expected that not too happen on with this bike and I was right. The big wheels and suspension kept it securely hooked up and I motored up what used to be a 50/50 rideable hill. The Schwalbe’s only spun out one time climbing, but I think that was more gear selection and leaves over loose rocks. They seem like they’re going to work pretty well for me and running them at 27psi probably helped, but I think I may run them even lower next time out because the sidewall flex did not ever appear like I was coming close to the rim.

    One other thing about this bike I noticed is that it is quiet, damn quiet. I kept trying to figure out what was different about the ride (besides the feel) and I realized I never heard the chain slap the frame. I’m not sure if this is the XX derailleur or the design of the frame, but I noticed it and I really like it. The Yeti was louder than a busted chainsaw going through rock gardens, so maybe that it is why I noticed this bikes stealthy silence. The shifting also was very direct and quiet and I can tell that I am going to be very happy with the 2x10 setup. Having ridden XTR triple cranks for the last 6 years, this was a huge step up. If you been contemplating 2x10, do it; I’m sold.


    As you see the lefty shock is in it's own league as far as I'm concerned and a few others as well.

  82. #82
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    Hello,

    I have read one million posts about lefty and finally I decide to write my opinion, here it is:

    I have a marvellous 2008 Rush 5 with a DLR Speed 110 Lefty, and a rigid bike with a FOX F100 RLC. Both bikes have similar groups (X7) and brakes (Avid Elixir R).

    I think that is not about if one fork is better or not. What I usually say to people or friends who ask me is:

    1º You need to try one before you decide. I love my lefty, although is an "old" model, is marvellous how it get blocked, and first of all (for me), its smoothness. Really fantastic. Sorry but I can't feel stifness differences.

    2º I need to pay more attention to the Lefty. Its need regular bearing resets and regular greasing of the bearings. And yes, it's quite easy but you need to do it, and I think that everyone needs to know this.
    This point is not bad for me because unfourtunatly I only ride 6-8 hours a week, so I don't need to spend much time with maintenance.

    3º Annual maintenance.... Don't you maintain conventional forks? I take my Fox to my LBS and is more or less as expensive as Lefty, so no difference at all with this.

    4º I need to have a look to the boot if I ride over some kind of spiky plants. Point to the Fox.

    5º Wheels and hubs options are more limited, or at least, more expensive that for conventional system.

    So in conclusion, if you don't mind to spend some time giving a look to your bike at least one time a month, if you like smoothers forks, and a different point of view, the lefty is for you.

    I think that for my kind of ride: rally, single tracks, marathon races and rock gardens, is the best choice.

    Nice rides!
    Just try to be happy and smile every day.

  83. #83
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    Be prepared to get flamed dormilon I said about the same and it was viewed as "negative" for pointing out facts regarding the time/money and wheel choices.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    No I am saying due to less speed in a leaned turn means less induced travel due to less force.

    Basically I think it boils down to rider preference and style of riding (contact vs. controlled drift).
    I'm not sure of a situation where it's better to drift than to have traction... unless you're a skid kiddie trying to impress your friends by ruining the trail.

    I'll also add that it feels like the Lefty reacts to the trail way more quickly than a Reba, even with the compression all the way open. As in, less stiction, and less of the impact transmitted to the bar, and the wheel sticking to the ground better... that's what suspension is supposed to do.

    Yes, the fork feels 'divey', but I just adjust my style a bit and it isn't a problem. Maybe it's divey because when I stuff a conventional fork in a turn it's binding up a bit. Nah, that's not it, but it does feel like it's tracking better. Heh... I just rolled down a new trail yesterday which was basically a steep, badly eroded trail where the trail elves installed railroad ties to control the erosion. So now, this steep trail has 1 foot drop step downs every 8 feet or so. I rode my steel Singular Swift with Lefty Max 140, converted to 110mm 29er, and it was flawless. I didn't have to think of it at all. It was point and shoot the whole way. The bike went where I told it to go with no argument.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 04-15-2012 at 02:41 PM.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by dormilon View Post
    Hello,

    I have read one million posts about lefty and finally I decide to write my opinion, here it is:

    I have a marvellous 2008 Rush 5 with a DLR Speed 110 Lefty, and a rigid bike with a FOX F100 RLC. Both bikes have similar groups (X7) and brakes (Avid Elixir R).

    I think that is not about if one fork is better or not. What I usually say to people or friends who ask me is:

    1º You need to try one before you decide. I love my lefty, although is an "old" model, is marvellous how it get blocked, and first of all (for me), its smoothness. Really fantastic. Sorry but I can't feel stifness differences.

    2º I need to pay more attention to the Lefty. Its need regular bearing resets and regular greasing of the bearings. And yes, it's quite easy but you need to do it, and I think that everyone needs to know this.
    This point is not bad for me because unfourtunatly I only ride 6-8 hours a week, so I don't need to spend much time with maintenance.

    3º Annual maintenance.... Don't you maintain conventional forks? I take my Fox to my LBS and is more or less as expensive as Lefty, so no difference at all with this.

    4º I need to have a look to the boot if I ride over some kind of spiky plants. Point to the Fox.

    5º Wheels and hubs options are more limited, or at least, more expensive that for conventional system.

    So in conclusion, if you don't mind to spend some time giving a look to your bike at least one time a month, if you like smoothers forks, and a different point of view, the lefty is for you.

    I think that for my kind of ride: rally, single tracks, marathon races and rock gardens, is the best choice.

    Nice rides!
    I've been lucky I guess, I've only had a chance to own the 2012 version of the shock. Up to now I have 603mi on my lefty and I haven't had any issues at all. I like to mention also on my other forked on my other bikes, I didn't encounter any issues with them either other regular maintenance.
    So it could be something to do with my riding style or the fact that I do all my riding in Florida.
    IMHO the performance of the "lefty" is superior to a conventional fork. That's all I care about when I ride, how well it works.

  86. #86
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    "Superior"? I like it but for specific applications where a lighter front end is desired. I really don't notice much difference in ride feel or "superior" performance in turns either.

    I suppose the last winners of the various XC races in the pros don't either. All major winners this year have been on conventional forks. If the lefty was "superior" all the pros would use them.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    Be prepared to get flamed dormilon I said about the same and it was viewed as "negative" for pointing out facts regarding the time/money and wheel choices.
    Hello Hiway,

    I hope not!

    Is just my experience. When I ask someone about some component, I wait a real answer, with good things, and not so good. As I tried to explain, is not good or bad, is simple about what kind of rides you do and what kind of rider you are. If you don't mind to spend some time with your bike maintenance (everyone lub its bike chain, no?) or yes. Just that.

    As my LBS told me when I bought my Rush, Lefty is the best fork for you, but as a hight quality component, it will need some special care from you.

    Happy trails!
    Just try to be happy and smile every day.

  88. #88
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    You have a good LBS then. It's good to hear some honest folks are still out there who will give you the details and consequences of using this or that on your bike.

  89. #89
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    Yes, I'm really happy with them. They help you to choose your bike or components and they don't choose de expensive components. We normally talk for awhile, see differents options, etc. and afterwards, I decide what I like.

    Ah! and they are also good mechanics. They always attend courses for recycling.

    Imaging that they don't explain me everything and I don't take care of my fork... I'll finish angry with my lefty, with them... and probably because my fault. By this way, they ensure that I will repeat with them.

    Happy trails!
    Just try to be happy and smile every day.

  90. #90
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    I just purchased a 2006-7 Scalpel XL Frame. I am wondering where to find parts that will fit.
    I am 6' 5" 225, so I want to make sure i get the bike set up well, with enough room to extend my legs.
    It's been awhile since I rebuilt a bike, a Haro Master back in the day, so any assistance you can give would be great!
    If the frame will only take the lefty fork, or i can use the "regualr" kind, sizes and dimensions,
    Cranks, and optimal sizes

    All, or any, of that information would be great

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainreporter View Post
    What are your guys experience's with the shock? Would you buy another one, if it serves a certain purpose what would you use it for? etc, etc.
    As for the ride quality, it seems a bit stiffer. I'm not a pro level rider attuned to such things, but it does seem more stable, which I equate to not getting moved around by stuff.

    And smoothness? Wow is all I can say. On regular trails, it's very noticeable, but on one dirt road I use for boring training rides, there is positive proof it's far better. I grind my way up this road (~3000' over 12 miles of steady climbing) and then bomb back down. The road is covered in rocks and, more significantly, washboard where it's just dirt. With my Fox, my arms would be completely beat up and my hands buzzing by the end of the trip back down. With the Lefty, I can feel the washboard as a minor vibration coming through the front end and handlebars. The difference is night and day, with the Lefty smoothing out the washboard so much that I can enjoy the downhill, where before, with the Fox, it was almost as much of a chore as grinding up the climb.

    I've had mine for a bit over a month now. I did have a problem and had to send it back to get new innards; haven't heard the post-operative report of what they found yet, but by all accounts, it's one of those oddball things that just happens; for the time being, I'll just chalk it up to being unlucky unless it happens again. Just got it back and will be re-installing it shortly. Total turnaround time: about a week. That's a shop thing, though. So far, that's the only bad part I've had. And the fork was completely rideable until they decided it needed to be opened up and repaired, under warranty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    I suppose the last winners of the various XC races in the pros don't either. All major winners this year have been on conventional forks. If the lefty was "superior" all the pros would use them.
    Unless they have sponsorships by Fox or SRAM....

    And I guess they're not pros, but the "perennial" winner of the Ride the Divide race uses a Lefty.

  92. #92
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    New question here. 2006-2007 Scalpel. Need help in finding parts

    I just purchased a 2006-7 Scalpel XL Frame. I am wondering where to find parts that will fit.
    I am 6' 5" 225, so I want to make sure i get the bike set up well, with enough room to extend my legs.
    It's been awhile since I rebuilt a bike, a Haro Master back in the day, so any assistance you can give would be great!
    If the frame will only take the lefty fork, or i can use the "regualr" kind, sizes and dimensions,
    Cranks, and optimal sizes

    All, or any, of that information would be great.

    If i double post this, I apoligize. Maybe the moderator can delete this one, or I will

    Thanks for your help

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post

    I suppose the last winners of the various XC races in the pros don't either. All major winners this year have been on conventional forks. If the lefty was "superior" all the pros would use them.
    Sorry, but that is the dumbest comment I've heard so far.....
    You keep saying this but it's like saying "If a Hemi V8 is really superior as far as torque output than every truck manufacturer would use it".
    Different brands, different products. Even if the Lefty would be "proven" to be superior to other suspension forks do you really think that for example Specialized would use them on their team bikes? I highly doubt they would use something that would prove a competitor has a better product/ "superior design".
    This thread is getting totally absurd.......it's like the never ending argument on different rear suspension designs.....the so called horst link is supposed to be superior as well, so how come it isn't the standard on every bike frame out there?
    Different designs have different pro's and con's and that is what will push the envelope in the future.....We will see how much stiffer and how much more improved the future lefty design will be.....the 2013 proto types look promising, seems like they've managed to get rid of some design "flaws" like the much hated rubber boot among other little things to convince critics like yourself.....
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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  94. #94
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    I love horst link!

    Quote Originally Posted by cdalemaniac View Post
    Sorry, but that is the dumbest comment I've heard so far.....
    You keep saying this but it's like saying "If a Hemi V8 is really superior as far as torque output than every truck manufacturer would use it".
    Different brands, different products. Even if the Lefty would be "proven" to be superior to other suspension forks do you really think that for example Specialized would use them on their team bikes? I highly doubt they would use something that would prove a competitor has a better product/ "superior design".
    This thread is getting totally absurd.......it's like the never ending argument on different rear suspension designs.....the so called horst link is supposed to be superior as well, so how come it isn't the standard on every bike frame out there?
    Different designs have different pro's and con's and that is what will push the envelope in the future.....We will see how much stiffer and how much more improved the future lefty design will be.....the 2013 proto types look promising, seems like they've managed to get rid of some design "flaws" like the much hated rubber boot among other little things to convince critics like yourself.....
    ... especially when paired up with a Lefty (and especially when the big S logo is not on it)!

    (picwhore excuse)

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1PZSiQh8pXiflMTaEzsobNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sjrMIVn9Tnw/T4dSkpsHBWI/AAAAAAAAcJs/pZ3NJJ-hRfM/s800/IMG_3044.JPG" height="600" width="800" /></a>

    Totally different topic, but I love how smooth Horst link bikes feel. Plus, no brake squat or jack, rear wheel doesn't 'hang up' on rocks as much, and no pedal kickback. I hated the first generation of VPP bikes because of the pedal kickback, although folks tell me the newer VPP bikes are much better about this.

    I think Horst link isn't on more bikes is because big S probably charges a metric boatload of cash for the license, and/or nobody else wants to do business with them. Titus probably got a lifetime or very long term deal with the Big S before they got a big headded, evil empire-y and lawsuit-y.

  95. #95
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    Single pivot is it. All others are limp wristed little girlie suspensions, according to me.

    There, I proved it......




    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiway View Post
    "Superior"? I like it but for specific applications where a lighter front end is desired. I really don't notice much difference in ride feel or "superior" performance in turns either.

    I suppose the last winners of the various XC races in the pros don't either. All major winners this year have been on conventional forks. If the lefty was "superior" all the pros would use them.
    When I started riding I judged the bikes by how many wins they had and not by the pro on the bike who was doing the actual winning. After riding for a while, you realize it's all about rider not the bike itself. Who ever pays the most money, usually gets the best pro, like in all sports. Who ever has the deeper pockets usually wins.
    If you go by wins as you suggest, any time a bike manufacturer pays a rider more money to switch over, and that rider wins, then that's the best bike and components. You'll never get a true answer from a pro at that level, it's all in the representation. If you think pros aspire to ride the best bikes then I think you live in a sheltered world, at that level it's "ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMINS". Pay me the money and I'll say you make the best bike.

    As far as bikes are concerned, lighter is always better as long as you don't compromise safety, strength and reliability. Hence the increase in carbon fiber frames at ALL levels usually only reserved for the heavier Aluminum frames..

    If you can get a bike to perform as well without any compromises for safety, strength or reliability, you can bet that pro rider would prefer that bike. It takes less energy hence less chance of fatigue hence better performance. Unfortunately lightness sometimes comes in at expense of performance. When a lighter component works as well as it's heavier counterpart, you usually see that component on all the best bikes unless there's an alternative reason such as patents or legal issues.

    Without any investigation on my part, just an opinion, I don't think any of the big manufactures would put a "Lefty" on their bikes do to possible contractual issues with their fork manufactures and at the risk of Cannondale saying that they've always had the best front suspension shock. I'm sure there are many underlying issues involved with that and it has nothing to do with the lefty shock itself.

  97. #97
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    Not to mention....

    Quote Originally Posted by torque29er View Post
    When I started riding I judged the bikes by how many wins they had and not by the pro on the bike who was doing the actual winning. After riding for a while, you realize it's all about rider not the bike itself. Who ever pays the most money, usually gets the best pro, like in all sports. Who ever has the deeper pockets usually wins.
    If you go by wins as you suggest, any time a bike manufacturer pays a rider more money to switch over, and that rider wins, then that's the best bike and components. You'll never get a true answer from a pro at that level, it's all in the representation. If you think pros aspire to ride the best bikes then I think you live in a sheltered world, at that level it's "ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMINS". Pay me the money and I'll say you make the best bike.

    As far as bikes are concerned, lighter is always better as long as you don't compromise safety, strength and reliability. Hence the increase in carbon fiber frames at ALL levels usually only reserved for the heavier Aluminum frames..

    If you can get a bike to perform as well without any compromises for safety, strength or reliability, you can bet that pro rider would prefer that bike. It takes less energy hence less chance of fatigue hence better performance. Unfortunately lightness sometimes comes in at expense of performance. When a lighter component works as well as it's heavier counterpart, you usually see that component on all the best bikes unless there's an alternative reason such as patents or legal issues.

    Without any investigation on my part, just an opinion, I don't think any of the big manufactures would put a "Lefty" on their bikes do to possible contractual issues with their fork manufactures and at the risk of Cannondale saying that they've always had the best front suspension shock. I'm sure there are many underlying issues involved with that and it has nothing to do with the lefty shock itself.
    What 'Pros' ride, what makes a good professional cross country bike, or freeride bike is not the same thing at all for what I need. I don't need the lightest bike on the planet that can hammertime from point A to B with zero regard for longevity. I'm no professional XC racerboy.

    I need a bike that handles well, pedals efficiently, doesn't break, goes where I tell it to go, and most importantly... a bike that I can ride comfortably for 6 hours and not have it rattle my overweight middle aged teeth, bones and joints out, leaving me a fatigued old pile of pain that hates life afterwards.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    What 'Pros' ride, what makes a good professional cross country bike, or freeride bike is not the same thing at all for what I need. I don't need the lightest bike on the planet that can hammertime from point A to B with zero regard for longevity. I'm no professional XC racerboy.

    I need a bike that handles well, pedals efficiently, doesn't break, goes where I tell it to go, and most importantly... a bike that I can ride comfortably for 6 hours and not have it rattle my overweight middle aged teeth, bones and joints out, leaving me a fatigued old pile of pain that hates life afterwards.
    +1...I whole hartedly agree but lighter is always better as long as you don't compromise safety, strength and reliability...
    Last edited by torque29er; 04-15-2012 at 07:31 PM.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by torque29er View Post
    +1...I whole hartedly agree but lighter is always better as long as you don't compromise safety, strength and reliability...
    Well, honestly, I sometimes sacrifice a bit of reliability for weigh savings. I love the way light stuff performs, but really I could stand to lose a few pounds myself... like the entire weight of my bike to get to a slim race weight. I'll do some lightweight parts, or use some weight weenie tricks to shed some grams and gain some snappier feeling.

  100. #100
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    967
    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Well, honestly, I sometimes sacrifice a bit of reliability for weigh savings. I love the way light stuff performs, but really I could stand to lose a few pounds myself... like the entire weight of my bike to get to a slim race weight. I'll do some lightweight parts, or use some weight weenie tricks to shed some grams and gain some snappier feeling.
    Actually, the cheapest way for my bike to be lighter is to let some else to ride it, as no matter how many different things I do to my bike to make it lighter, it's still my fatt ass who's riding it.....

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