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  1. #1
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    New question here. Lefty max rebound damping

    Question for you lefty gurus about my lefy max 140. I don't feel much or any rebound damping from it. I tried my buddies prophet 600 and it felt the same as mine.

    I just started using lefty. My last fork was a vanilla 125 so i would like to know if i'm missing something here.

    Appreciated your feedback. Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Rebound...

    I am not sure on the lefty Max, but on my Terralogic I have found the initial sag spec for your weight is important. I think that if you have the air pressure up to high, or if the installed spring has too much spring rate then it will "overpower" the rebound. I have found on my Speed Carbon that it is a relationship between compression/rebound for my wieght and the fork performs as it was intended.

    I know on the Max 140 it is designed for some major hits, it may take a trail ride with your shock pump and playin with the dials.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cy6ex
    Question for you lefty gurus about my lefy max 140. I don't feel much or any rebound damping from it. I tried my buddies prophet 600 and it felt the same as mine.

    I just started using lefty. My last fork was a vanilla 125 so i would like to know if i'm missing something here.

    Appreciated your feedback. Thanks!
    What spring is in it? Did you upgrade to a stiffer one? You should have plenty of adjustment, I am assuming you have spun the red dial on top? The only other adjustments you can make to it are oils' viscosity. They come with a 2.5 wieght, and that works for most. If you have a heavy spring, you may need to up the viscosity a bit. If you have no damping whatsoever, there is an issue, but it is such a simple system, I find it hard to put my finger on the exact cause. Is it a new bike?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    What spring is in it? Did you upgrade to a stiffer one? You should have plenty of adjustment, I am assuming you have spun the red dial on top? The only other adjustments you can make to it are oils' viscosity. They come with a 2.5 wieght, and that works for most. If you have a heavy spring, you may need to up the viscosity a bit. If you have no damping whatsoever, there is an issue, but it is such a simple system, I find it hard to put my finger on the exact cause. Is it a new bike?
    I was hoping you will read this thread. I bought my lefty from ebay and it pratically new. It's taken out of a XL frame which has a RED spring. My buddies prophet is sized S (Green spring). Fyi, i weight 149Ibs. If mine has a stiffer spring, it shouldn't felt like my buddies lefty.

    So If i comes down to having to change my oil's viscosity, which type should i got for? I"m from Malaysia and my nearest c'dale agent is in Singapore. Would any motorbike shock oil do and which type should i go for?

    I'm quite a frequent in this forum and highly regard your comments with regards to c'dale parts. Hope you can help me out. Thanks for reading this thread.
    Last edited by cy6ex; 10-29-2005 at 11:03 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cy6ex
    I was hoping you will read this thread. I bought my lefty from ebay and it taken of a XL frame and has a RED spring. My buddies prophet is sized S. Fyi, i weight 149Ibs. If mine has a stiffer spring, it shouldn't felt like my buddies lefty. If i have to change my oil's viscosity, what should i go for? (don't know if that's a relevent question?)

    I quite a frequent in this forum and highly regard your comments with regards to c'dale products. Hope you can help out. Thanks for reading this thread.
    Hey there, so, both yours, and your buddies feel like they have no rebound? The spring is a bit too stiff, for what I would put you on, I would go blue, if that's an option you wish to consider. I weigh 170 ish, and ride a blue, red is too firm for me. If you like the red, I would run 10weight oil, that should give you a good range of adjustment. Let me know if you need additional info! Ride on.

  6. #6
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    I will look into changing the oil to see if it will solve the problem. I'll update this once i go about doing that. Fyi, it's 2:30am here and i'd just came back after a night out drinking with my homies. Today is ride day and i should get some shut eye... ) Thanks again for you prompt reply. You are the man!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Hey there, so, both yours, and your buddies feel like they have no rebound? The spring is a bit too stiff, for what I would put you on, I would go blue, if that's an option you wish to consider. I weigh 170 ish, and ride a blue, red is too firm for me. If you like the red, I would run 10weight oil, that should give you a good range of adjustment. Let me know if you need additional info! Ride on.

    I just filled mine up with 5wt oil and I turned both r and c damping on max, so I need to update to 10wt oil I guess. 2006 Prophet 600 M, 150lbs, red spring, spring preload zero. Had all the rubber washers broken in the damper, the oil came out and soaked the brakepads. And folks, dont forget the needle bearing reset, it helps really and it is easy. More details at swotch.com

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Dotkom the oil came out and soaked the brakepads. [/QUOTE]


    From where, the boot? If so, sounds like a blown quad seal. If it was not replaced, you're heading for the same thing again.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    From where, the boot? If so, sounds like a blown quad seal. If it was not replaced, you're heading for the same thing again.

    ...er...what is a quad seal please? I replaced the o-rings on the damper unit thats all. There is oil all over, I am not sure it is coming from the boot or from the damper. Teh boot wes broken and I repaired with neoprene and Loctite 406 seem to hold up well. By the way see my craeking lefty thread...still creaking on the landings and under high brake power. Tightened the bolts, resetted the needles. Thanks Craig.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotkom
    ...er...what is a quad seal please? I replaced the o-rings on the damper unit thats all. There is oil all over, I am not sure it is coming from the boot or from the damper. Teh boot wes broken and I repaired with neoprene and Loctite 406 seem to hold up well. By the way see my craeking lefty thread...still creaking on the landings and under high brake power. Tightened the bolts, resetted the needles. Thanks Craig.

    The quad seal is in the cap through which the rebound piston slides. You get to it, by removing the upper assembly, and sliding the rebound shaft out of the cap. I don't recommend "fixing" boots. They cost 10 bucks, far chheaper than replacing all the bearings and races after the fix goes bad. The creaking, I would pull the fork, pop out the head set cups, clean and lube them well, and press them back in. alot of noises come from grit getting into the headset cup's interface with the headtube. Cheers!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  11. #11
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    I have a similar question - hope you don't mind if I jump in here...
    2005 Lefty Max SPV on a small Prophet 1000.
    I don't really notice any difference in the feel of the shock when I fiddle with the Rebound Damping Adjustment on top of the shock. Maybe I'm just not sensitive enough but... In reading the manual, it says that knob should do about 1.75 turns, and is stopped at each of 14 positions by the detent balls.
    Mine only turns about half of one rotation, and there's no sign or feel of separate positions though the rotation. Or do you need to use a lot of force with the thing? It doesn't stop hard, there's just a lot of resistance past the 1/2 turn.

    Is this normal? I bought the bike new 2 months ago. It's always been like that. I've opened the lefty once for preload adj and bearing reset, so I'm comfortable popping it open if there's something quick and easy to check for.

    It's got a green spring, 100lb SPV air pressure, preload tightened all the way down.

    I'm planning on changing the spring to a Blue one (I'm 180 lbs), but am also concerned if I do it myself, and it turns out there's is something messed up (pre-existing), Cannondale/LBS will blame it on my spring change and give me a hard time about warranty repair - so I guess I should figure out if my Rebound Dampening is normal first.
    Is this normal?
    Last edited by jdr01930; 12-10-2006 at 11:03 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdr01930
    Mine only turns about half of one rotation, and there's no sign or feel of separate positions though the rotation. Or do you need to use a lot of force with the thing? It doesn't stop hard, there's just a lot of resistance past the 1/2 turn.

    It seems a bunch of these forks have a bit of a sticky adjustment, brought on when the cap is tightened down all the way. Try loosening your topcap, and seeing if it increases the range of knob movement available to you. If so, determine that you do have rebound damping going on by going full heavy, then adjust to where it should be and tighten. At that point, the range of adjustment provided with the cap tight, should be sufficient for on trail tweaking.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  13. #13
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    Houston, we have rebound!

    Thanks Craig!
    I tried loosening the cap, and that got me up to about a full rotation. If I kept going, I'd get one full rotation in, and and the other way became limitless. After taking the top cap off I figured out what that was all about.

    First of all, the rebound adjustment knob just kinda fell out when I took off the top cap.
    I almost lost one of the detent bearings, it fell on the floor but thanks to the grease it didn't roll very far. I think the rebound knob came unscrewed and one of the bearing came out and maybe it was jammed, and maybe the whole shaft was rotating. I also did a proper needle bearing reset - last time, I didn't find the pics showing how far the rebound assembly is suppose to sink until afterwards.

    So, after putting it back together, I can now feel the "clicks", and there is a HUGE difference in rebound as I go through the range. However, my range is about 10 clicks, maybe about 1 full rotation. If I exceed that, the rebound knob unscrews and pops up inside the cap (even with the cap tightened down) and will not move. I need to remove the top cap and screw the rebound adjustment knob in proper.
    Kinda weird, but I can live with it - I just know to stay within that 10 click limit now. (or is there something else out of wack?). That's plenty of range for me, anyway.

    Time for that spring change to red or blue - i think I'm beating the piss out of it with the green spring at 180lbs! (hmm sounds like the movie The Matrix: should I take the red spring, or the blue spring? lol.)

    Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing: I fiddled around with the Rebound Tuning Pushrod - that may not have been seated properly.
    Last edited by jdr01930; 12-11-2006 at 12:03 PM.
    '15 Cannondale Trigger 27.5 Carbon 2
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdr01930
    I can now feel the "clicks", and there is a HUGE difference in rebound as I go through the range.

    Excellent!! I wouldn't worry about that one click, sounds like you have the adjustability you need now=
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  15. #15
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    Today I found out why the Lefty Max 140 rebound adjust ALWAYS goes bad. Its the pushrod. Apparently the damper oil gets onto the pushrod, goes into a chemical reaction with the aluminum and a massive black rust will build all the length of the rod. This will block the rod into the slider. I as well found this oxide in the rebound piston where it blocked the valve.
    C`dale put a foam piece in the compression damper to save weight. This begun as well to disintegrate ans sent bits of plastic into the pistons, until they choked.
    The quad ring (actually an O-Ring) was okay but hat dirt behind. The dirt came from the slider bearing that is in the rebound cap. Quad seal is requested.
    Such a mess. Everything easy job no tricks just read the Lefty Rebuild thread. And get a tissue box you will need it my room is converted into a slaughterhouse...
    Thanks for y'all for the instructions.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotkom
    Today I found out why the Lefty Max 140 rebound adjust ALWAYS goes bad. Its the pushrod.

    C`dale put a foam piece in the compression damper to save weight. This begun as well to disintegrate ans sent bits of plastic into the pistons, until they choked.

    Always might be too strong a wording, it's what happened to yours. Lot's of other potential problems wait in the wings.

    The foam is not there to save weight, it is to compensate for compression forces, allowing the compression damper to work, more smoothly. Cheers!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  17. #17
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    Thats what happened to mine. I recently read some posts about blocked rebound, a friend has this as well.
    Okay I put back the foam I just cut off the part that is chewn.
    Thanks I am still writing with greasy fingers...
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotkom
    Thats what happened to mine. I recently read some posts about blocked rebound, a friend has this as well.
    Okay I put back the foam I just cut off the part that is chewn.
    Thanks I am still writing with greasy fingers...
    Don't reuse that foam, it will most likely casue your fork to feel lokcked out, wierd, but true. Get a new one, it's worth it.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  19. #19
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    I guess I rather test it without this sponge. Is it rather intended to act as a makeshift SPV bladder? Anyhow it must have released the spam I found inside the damper, it is partially chewn up although there are no moving parts around.
    I remember the first time I changed the fork oil it was a like dark grey poodle water.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotkom
    I guess I rather test it without this sponge. Is it rather intended to act as a makeshift SPV bladder? Anyhow it must have released the spam I found inside the damper, it is partially chewn up although there are no moving parts around.
    I remember the first time I changed the fork oil it was a like dark grey poodle water.


    It does break down over time, it's just foam, in oil after all. The grey oil is not foamy though, it's aluminum, dirt, foam, heat damaged, etc. The oil should get changed every few months of hard riding though, make the fork work better. As for SPV like, it's in no way SPV anything. It has a different compressioin characteristic than the oil it's in. Therefore, when compression begins, it allows motion to happen, whitout the compression damper kicking in to do it's job, until there is a sudden spike, as opposed to damping every downward movement in the fork. It will work without it, it will not feel as smooth.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  21. #21
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    Foam is vital

    When I first saw the foam, I thought wtf. BUT! Your Leftys' oil chamber needs it badly. As the rebound damper moves into the oil, more and more rebound shaft comes with it - displacing the noncompressible oil, which has to go somewhere. The closed cell foam compresses to account for this. If you took out the foam, then filled Lefty full with oil like you're supposed to - the first compression would blow oil out the nearest seal - or not compress at all, like lockout. New foam comes in the seal kit, which is cheap, along with every other seal that Lefty Max (SPV, TPC or FFD) needs - and you can't buy any of the bits separately anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    It does break down over time, it's just foam, in oil after all. The grey oil is not foamy though, it's aluminum, dirt, foam, heat damaged, etc. The oil should get changed every few months of hard riding though, make the fork work better. As for SPV like, it's in no way SPV anything. It has a different compressioin characteristic than the oil it's in. Therefore, when compression begins, it allows motion to happen, whitout the compression damper kicking in to do it's job, until there is a sudden spike, as opposed to damping every downward movement in the fork. It will work without it, it will not feel as smooth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dotkom
    I guess I rather test it without this sponge. Is it rather intended to act as a makeshift SPV bladder? Anyhow it must have released the spam I found inside the damper, it is partially chewn up although there are no moving parts around.
    I remember the first time I changed the fork oil it was a like dark grey poodle water.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  22. #22
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    "As the rebound damper moves into the oil, more and more rebound shaft comes with it - displacing the noncompressible oil, which has to go somewhere."

    Wait a minute, as the rebound piston moves in, the oil will go through the rebound piston upwards.As the reb piston moves out, the oil will pass it again.
    But for sure, the compression piston wont move, so as the oil passes through, it needs some place.
    If you have got some time look up http://widget.ecn.purdue.edu/~me452/...FinalPaper.pdf
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  23. #23
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    aHa!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dotkom
    "As the rebound damper moves into the oil, more and more rebound shaft comes with it - displacing the noncompressible oil, which has to go somewhere."

    Wait a minute, as the rebound piston moves in, the oil will go through the rebound piston upwards.As the reb piston moves out, the oil will pass it again.
    But for sure, the compression piston wont move, so as the oil passes through, it needs some place.
    If you have got some time look up http://widget.ecn.purdue.edu/~me452/...FinalPaper.pdf
    You have to think it thru. When you start, the piston and a small part of the rebound shaft are in the oil. As you compress the Lefty, the piston moves down into the oil (no biggie, it was already there, and the oil flows thru like you said) - but more of the shaft follows it thru the seal into the oil, taking up room that the oil used to fill.
    The old AMP shocks got around this by having the shaft go all the way thru the damper and out thru another seal - same amount of shaft inside all the time and the piston moved backNforth with no internal volume change.

    I looked up your reference - the foam pad is the equivalent of the gas chamber (woohoo!) at the top of the tube. It sits next to the compression chamber (the foam is in the compression chamber instead of separated by a floating piston) and takes up the volume change as the rod moves into the chambers. Lefty is upside down as well as left handed!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotkom
    Today I found out why the Lefty Max 140 rebound adjust ALWAYS goes bad. Its the pushrod. Apparently the damper oil gets onto the pushrod, goes into a chemical reaction with the aluminum and a massive black rust will build all the length of the rod. This will block the rod into the slider. I as well found this oxide in the rebound piston where it blocked the valve.
    C`dale put a foam piece in the compression damper to save weight. This begun as well to disintegrate ans sent bits of plastic into the pistons, until they choked.
    The quad ring (actually an O-Ring) was okay but hat dirt behind. The dirt came from the slider bearing that is in the rebound cap. Quad seal is requested.
    With some help from Wadester and MCS, I completely disassembled and rebuilt my Carbon Lefty Max SPV and all went well. Definitely be a lot quicker next time.

    I had a similar problem in that I was only getting a few clicks turn out of my rebound adjuster which seemed to have no effect on the actual damping. When I pulled everything to bits I noted a few things.

    1) The aluminium pushrod was corroded where it enters the damping assembly (top end) and was not free to move vertically. This was an easy fix, but given the internals of my fork and the damping assembly were very clean I was surprised to see the corrosion - I assume it's a galvanic reaction rather than exposure to the "elements"

    2) There was a bit of black muck at the very bottom end of the push rod, were it sits in the damping assembly. I cleaned it out by squirting dewatering fuid into the chamber and jiggling the push rod in and out repeatedly, cleaning it out each time. I also kept on tapping the damper unit against a wooden surface to help dislodge some of the contamination.

    3) There was a very faint layer of white oxide/film on the rebound valving which I cleaned off

    Once again, I have no idea were this muck came from, but I suggest that it's not a bad idea to completely pull out the pushrod if you have the top cap off and check that the end is clean.

    Hope this helps - I assume the references to the foam deteriorating in this post do not apply to the SPV Max ??

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger9

    1) The aluminium pushrod was corroded where it enters the damping assembly (top end) and was not free to move vertically.

    2) There was a bit of black muck at the very bottom end of the push rod,

    3) There was a very faint layer of white oxide/film on the rebound valving
    So you got EXACTLY the same problems as me. I as well disassembled the rebound piston (easy) to clan up the spam.

    So to Craig : this is some kind of a general problem isnt it?

    Gas Chamber: now you see it perfectly well!!

    Thank you guys
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  26. #26
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    Finally I put the old foam back plus some stripes of neoprene (from an old scuba suit) and my fork ROCKS. I can pretty much guess if the foam looses volumen, and you change the oil, the excess oil volumen blows the seals. Foam is ESSENTIAL !!
    Thanks
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  27. #27
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    I am having problems with my rebound damping (140 SPV) it no longer clicks and is very difficult to adjust

    can anyone give me step by step instructions to sort it out?

    thanks in advance

  28. #28
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    Typical case of rust-in pushrod. Open the topcap, pull out the pushrod, clean the rust, grease it. If it still doesn't help, dismantle the fork until you have the rebound damping valve and clean it. Disassembly is shown clearly in this forum (at least as of 140 TPC but the Spv wont be very different) , I guess Dan Gerous made it.

    Have fun
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  29. #29
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    did you lose the balls bearings in your rebound cap? that would also cause the lack of "click" adjustment, although i think click is a strong word for the rebound adjust on the Lefty SPV.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_n_Daft
    I am having problems with my rebound damping (140 SPV) it no longer clicks and is very difficult to adjust

    can anyone give me step by step instructions to sort it out?

    thanks in advance
    Did you check out post # 13 in this thread? That's the same problem I had and what fixed it for me is in that post.
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  31. #31
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    have checked no rust but some tinkering has got it sorted

    thanks for the help

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