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  1. #1
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    Lefty DRL2 losing Air pressure....

    So the Rush has been home for less than a week and it will be going back to the shop as before I could ride it, I noticed the Lefty won't hold air pressure.

    I can pump it up to 130psi and then within 2 days it is at 0psi.

    I pumped it up to 130 last night at 8pm and it is already to 80psi or so at 6am this morning.

    Oh well.........at least it isn't really riding season yet.

    We'll see what the LBS says.........

    Steve

  2. #2
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by River19
    We'll see what the LBS says.........

    My guess if a typical shop? "Uh, dunno, send it back to Cannondale"

    My suggestion? Check the valve core to see it's tight. #1 cause in a brand new fork.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  3. #3
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    Thanks Mendon.........I will consult the brand-spanking new manual and see what I can do with the valve core.

    The LBS is actually awesome and they still like me as I keep spending money, so I will make sure the valve is tight and run another test and go from there.

    Steve

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by River19
    Thanks Mendon.........I will consult the brand-spanking new manual and see what I can do with the valve core.

    The LBS is actually awesome and they still like me as I keep spending money, so I will make sure the valve is tight and run another test and go from there.

    Steve

    No worries, all you need is a schraeder valve core tool. Any auto parts store will have them, and many bike shops too. In fact, I'd bet they'd let you borrow theirs..... Pop the cap off, sick the tool on, and twist it snug, done. May not solve it, but it took .5 seconds
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  5. #5
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    I had the shop check the valve and they felt it was loose, got the bike back and it is now still losing pressure......130psi on Sunday, I can bottom it out this morning without being on the bike.......going back to the shop this week.

    Steve

  6. #6
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    My bet's on piston seals at this point. Still a small 10 minute job though.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  7. #7
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    I would also have them try replacing the Schrader valve core along with the piston if they havent done that. I have seen a few dud valve cores. They could also check the o-ring seal in the plug at the bottom of the fork and make sure they use plenty of the Phil Wood tenacious oil.
    Air can leak out either at the top (piston) or the bottom (schrader valve, or thread in plug)

    Kevin

  8. #8
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    Well, they are ordering me another shock from C-dale………fine with me, asked about what the upcharge would be to get a Carbon just for giggles, let’s just say I won’t be going that route.

    Steve

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by River19
    Well, they are ordering me another shock from C-dale………fine with me, asked about what the upcharge would be to get a Carbon just for giggles, let’s just say I won’t be going that route.

    Steve
    Absolutely no disrespect to you, but what a bunch of idiots. Wnat to know why A: America is going down the tubes, and B: why things cost so much? Here's a prime example. Don't bother to even lift a finger to fix anything, just get a new one. Now Cannondale is out a new fork, has an "old one" that can't be sold as new, up go the rates. And any shop that can't be bothered to crack open and fix a product they sell, well, I'm just going to stay quiet on that

    Sorry, but that's just stupidity. I do hope the new one is perfect for your sake
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  10. #10
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    I can see your side of the argument. On their side (and I don’t pretend to know their motivations) this is a warranty claim and a customer service issue. We just bought two Rushes from them along with about $600 of additional upgrades etc. and I’ll be going to the shop 4 times more than I should, to drop it off, get it back, drop it off, get it back. As a dealer wouldn’t you be pissed that the products you sold to a good customer came from the factory with a problem? (assuming the fork comes assembled from C-Dale)

    While I understand there are other ways to fix it, they could spend time disassembling it and changing the seals, the reassemble, wait and pray it holds etc. But frankly, I don’t really want a rebuilt fork, it is a brand new 2008 bike with 300yds of riding on it………from a customer perspective, why should I settle for anything less than a replacement?

    I didn't complain either, I didn't ask for a new one, they offered it.

    Believe me I’m not arguing with you on this, I’m just saying there are multiple ways to look at this.

    Steve

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by River19
    Believe me I’m not arguing with you on this, I’m just saying there are multiple ways to look at this.

    Steve
    I hear you. But as a retailer (my perspective) and a customer (yours), it will take a week (or so) to get a new fork in. There you sit, with a flat fork for a week + what time it takes them to get it on. Had they flipped the bike over, de-pressurized it, unscrewed the lower cap, popped out the piston, and either replaced the whole 5 dollar part, or put on fresh seals and a gob of lube, then reversed the process, and left it aired up overnight, dollars to doughnuts, you'd be riding tomorrow. If not, no blood no foul, order the fork then. They'd look like heroes, you'd think wow, I'll bring this to them every time I need service, and they could ask Cannondale for a puny little credit, which they'd happily pay. Now, the shop has an expensive fork on their account for a month or more, tieing up dollars that could be better spent, they need to do a dance with the rep, who will not be as happy writing a multi hundred dollar credit, compared to say $15. Now he has a fork which isn't new, has to find a way to dump it (perhaps ebay, further devalueing the Cannondale brand equity). I just hate shops that aren't trained, yet sell the brand. You also mentioned the mechanic "not having the time" to look deeper than a valve core. This is code for, "please don't ask me to get into the fork, I have no idea what I'm doing, and don't want to embarrass myself by admitting it". Again, I'm glad they are hooking you up, but they could have done so faster, and cheaper, had they not been so inept, and both you, the shops reputation and Cannondale would benefit. Now, they're just another Midas muffler shop, oh, it's dead, give 'em a new one. blahhhhh

    Rock on!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  12. #12
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    Great perspective Mendon, I appreciate it.

    I do know the guy that specializes in rebuilding suspensions is away for 3 weeks out West training (for riding not shocks ).

    I guess that is their way of getting me my bike as soon as they can......who knows.

    Your point on branding is spot on.

    Steve

  13. #13
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    I agree with Mendon completely.

    Just because a part is not working 100& out of the box does not mean that a replacement is needed. I think theres a bit of over expectation from the consumer here which is also driving the shops decision to replace the entire Lefty.

    No problem, I t means I may getmy SL sooner but I think it would be quicker, and moreeffective to replace the piston seal which I am sure is the problem since this is the number one reason for any suspension from any manufacturer not holding air.
    It's a 40min job and could have been done while you wait.

    my lefty also leaked air and the LBS sorted it immediately. The upper Oring was slightly displaced and they repalced the o-ring, greased it and refited it. It's been perfect since.

    No waiting for new parts and now I know that that my LBS is competant.

  14. #14
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    “I think theres a bit of over expectation from the consumer here which is also driving the shops decision to replace the entire Lefty.”

    If you’re specifically applying this to me, I 100% disagree.

    My conversation was this (paraphrased):
    “The Lefty is coming back to you, still not holding air unfortunately”

    “Oh man, I’m sorry, bring it back in and I’ll call Cannondale and get a new fork in, that just isn’t right.”

    “I’ll bring it in later this week.”

    The only expectation I had was getting a working bike, is that wrong? I have no real problem with them fixing the fork if they offered, but for argument’s sake why should I settle for that? Is this the same mentality that caused problems for American car companies in the 80’s and 90’s? As a consumer, you think it is wrong to have expectations that the product you buy actually work as intended without rebuilding, fixing or servicing prior to use? That baffles me.

    If they offered to replace the seals etc. and hold it for a week to make sure it held pressure I would have no problem with that, should I have said no to the new fork? Please.

  15. #15
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    the take home message here beyond the bickering is that sometimes there are issues with the lefty air piston seals. they are easy to get to, tweak, replace. always check that there is ample oil in the air chamber (5ccs of phil's tenacious). it will keep those o-rings happy, in place.

    very rarely, the vendor that machines the air chamber for the lower leaves behind a small burr or imperfection that will make even perfectly seated, lubed o-rings seep air slowly. if replacement of the o-rings doesn't solve an air leak, THEN the shock should go back to have the lower replaced. not the whole shock.

    i believe one plan for the new company look is to have more comprehensive shop support where dealers do more of this work in-house and abuse less, the return options.

  16. #16
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    That sounds like a better way to approach things, I don't disagree. It wasn't an option that was presented to me however.

    Back to the shock, it is holding like half the psi it was inflated to........it is almost like the higher pressure was enough to seep through the seals or something until it gets to a certain point where the seals can hold it. The amount of air left (I didn't throw the pump on this morning to check the exact psi) isn't enough to support my weight. As soon as I get on the bike it is against the stops.

    I will suggest seal replacement to the shop and see if they can go that route.

    Steve

  17. #17
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    Sometimes it can be a lowers issue, I changed out the schrader valve and the piston several times with my Carbon SL, Chris Moor from Cannondale rebuilt it as well and it would still leak air, most noticeably while riding fast over rough terrain. Ultimately with 24 HOP looming the decision was made to warranty replace the Lefty, although I just received an assembly with no cartridge as mine was working just fine. So far on limited time the replacement seems to be working perfectly.

    I agree about the service issue, we were talking about this at the shop and agreed that Cannondale should require all dealers to sign a service agreement and purchase the necessary tools and equipment to do a full service on the Lefty. Having said that Cannondale tech is very good and supportive when you call them to ask advice on repairs.

    Kevin

  18. #18
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    Update:

    Cannondale walked my dealer's tech through everything and they replaced the seals and pumped it up to 150psi to see if it held over night. It didn't. He replaced the seals again, wouldn't hold air. Going back to C-Dale for a whole replacement of the lower

    Oh well. Hopefully back in a couple weeks.

    Steve

  19. #19
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    Also, turning the bike upside-down, can cause pressure loss too. Treat your bike like it has hydraulic discs(if it doesn't already) and you should be ok.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Absolutely no disrespect to you, but what a bunch of idiots. Wnat to know why A: America is going down the tubes, and B: why things cost so much? Here's a prime example. Don't bother to even lift a finger to fix anything, just get a new one. Now Cannondale is out a new fork, has an "old one" that can't be sold as new, up go the rates. And any shop that can't be bothered to crack open and fix a product they sell, well, I'm just going to stay quiet on that

    Sorry, but that's just stupidity. I do hope the new one is perfect for your sake
    Can't say I agree with you here completely although I can see your side. The same way as when you buy a new bike you expect it to work properly, I'm sure when a bike shop gets a bike from Cannondale they expect it to work properly. They start messing around with it then what happens? I'm guessing that Cannondale would rather have a shop contact them and say we have a brand new Lefty here that is leaking air, rather than saying we opened it up and tried to figure it out ourselves but we couldn't. I don't know, I can see both sides to the argument. I'm also not sure if I would want a shop opening up my brand new Lefty and trying to figure out what is wrong with it, rather than just replace it.

  21. #21
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    I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer on this……just different approaches.

    Being the customer, all I know is that I bought a bike 1-2 months ago that I have not been able to ride yet. How would you feel in my shoes?

    I just want a working Lefty……..

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    I'm guessing that Cannondale would rather have a shop contact them and say we have a brand new Lefty here that is leaking air, rather than saying we opened it up and tried to figure it out ourselves but we couldn't.


    So, what are shops for? Selling tubes, and putting grease in seat tubes? Does your car dealership send the VW back to Germany for an injector issue? No, VW has an authorized service center, (the dealership) who's job it is, to make the vehicle run properly. Not saying all dealers can, or will do quality work, but to say a dealer shouldn't service what it sells, new or otherwise, makes no sense, no offense
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith


    So, what are shops for? Selling tubes, and putting grease in seat tubes? Does your car dealership send the VW back to Germany for an injector issue? No, VW has an authorized service center, (the dealership) who's job it is, to make the vehicle run properly. Not saying all dealers can, or will do quality work, but to say a dealer shouldn't service what it sells, new or otherwise, makes no sense, no offense
    No they are for doing repairs, sales etc.. Repairs on brand new items and general repairs are two different things. If you went to an electronics, bought a TV, it didn't work properly and you went back to the store and they said, "Well we can open this up and try to repair it for you or we can just get a new one for you" Which one would you choose?

  24. #24
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssc280
    No they are for doing repairs, sales etc.. Repairs on brand new items and general repairs are two different things. If you went to an electronics, bought a TV, it didn't work properly and you went back to the store and they said, "Well we can open this up and try to repair it for you or we can just get a new one for you" Which one would you choose?
    Hmmm, I think you're missing my point. To speak to your analogy, I'd happily take the existing one fixed, since if that one was bad, chances are, it wasn't the only one in that batch.... Also, electronics are way different that mechanical objects.

    To bring it back around, would you expect a new car, if you have tranny issues a week into ownership? I would think as long as it was fixed, and cost you nothing, who cares? Dealers shouldn't just fix old stuff, components are becoming ever more complex, so having a delaer network that is able to do work on site, save a lot of time, hassle, money, etc. And in the end, produces a result identical to a new replacement, that is, someone on the trail with a smile on their face
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Hmmm, I think you're missing my point. To speak to your analogy, I'd happily take the existing one fixed, since if that one was bad, chances are, it wasn't the only one in that batch.... Also, electronics are way different that mechanical objects.

    To bring it back around, would you expect a new car, if you have tranny issues a week into ownership? I would think as long as it was fixed, and cost you nothing, who cares? Dealers shouldn't just fix old stuff, components are becoming ever more complex, so having a delaer network that is able to do work on site, save a lot of time, hassle, money, etc. And in the end, produces a result identical to a new replacement, that is, someone on the trail with a smile on their face
    I guess the real problem for me is that I wouldn't trust the shops in my area to break down a Lefty and be able to diagnose a problem, and I could literally drive to a minimum of 10 Cannondale dealers with a 40 minute radius of my house.

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