Results 1 to 38 of 38
  1. #1
    Norðwegr
    Reputation: Vegard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,448

    New question here. Installing XX1 crank questions

    Finally got around to installing my XX1 crank, or attempt to do so atleast when I ran into a problem on my '12 Scalpel.

    From reading the manual for the frame, the manual for the xx1 crank and measuring the bb myself it is a 73mm bb.

    However, when I put the crankset on with no shims as the xx1 manual stated, the chainring grinds against the chainstay. I used the flat faced BB shields.

    Should I put a shim on even though the manual says it isn't required?

    For a 68mm bb the manual states that 1 shim should be used on each side.

    Thank you for any help!
    Last edited by Vegard; 03-19-2013 at 10:24 AM.

  2. #2
    don't stop
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    115
    Not certain if this is your problem, but the XX1 crank comes in two widths ("wide" and "narrow" on their website, or 156 vs 166 mm q-factor width). I'd first start be confirming if you bought the narrow version - if so, you might be out of luck. Adding extra spacers does not move the chainrings out, it only fills in the extra space between them and the BB shell if you have a 68 vs 73mm width.

  3. #3
    Norðwegr
    Reputation: Vegard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,448
    I bought the q168, the q156 also fits the frame, but only by the width of a hair.

  4. #4
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    The only thing that changes between the 156 and 168 q-factor cranksets is the spacing of the crankarms themselves, the chainring alignement doesn't change (different q-factor, same chainline). So it does seem like the issue is in your installation.

    There are two spacers to fill the gap when on a 68mm BB shell that should not be put when installing it on a 73mm BB shelled frame, you're okay there. But there is still a wider spacer that goes on the driveside and the instructions seem to indicate the bearing sheilds should not be flat faced... logically, they should be flat faced on 83mm BB shells but not on 73mm BB shells but the instructions are not very clear on that. SRAM's instruction are always very basic, not too good frankly, but pay attention the their drawings.

    So, don't use the spacers highlighted in green here, but do use the others...

    Installing XX1 crank questions-xx1crank.jpg

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  5. #5
    Norðwegr
    Reputation: Vegard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,448
    Thanks Dan, here's what I have to work with:


    When I use no shims the 36t digs into the chainstay. (steel guard saved the carbon)

    When I use one of the supplied black metal shims it covers the 'teeth' on the spindel so the crankarm can't be screwed fully on.

    When I use 2 plastic shims it does seem to fit together, although only with 2-3mm to spare between the 36t and the chainstay.
    I should probably find some metal shims to replace them with asap.

    --

    Another issue is that the preload doesn't seem to do anything? If anything it makes it less roomy on the drive side.

  6. #6
    don't stop
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    115
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous View Post
    The only thing that changes between the 156 and 168 q-factor cranksets is the spacing of the crankarms themselves, the chainring alignement doesn't change (different q-factor, same chainline).
    Yes, of course that is correct. My brain must still be in weekend mode.

  7. #7
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Looking at your picture, the green SI bearing sheilds didn't come with the XX1 crankset right? Don't use those, but only the black 'SRAM 30mm spindle' sheilds. Don't use the two black spacers that are on the upper left corner of the printed manual either (that's the spacers for 68mm BB shells). The wave washer and thin transparent shims (in the ziplock bags) should not be used either, they're required on cranksets that don't have the bearing preload adjustment ring.

    Speaking of the bearing preload adjustment ring, make sure it's set as close the crankarm as possible before you install it. If it's already backed too far, it may be what's causing your issue.

    So bearings pressed in, SRAM bearing sheilds (not sure what side, flat facing the bearings on 73mm BB, flat outward on 83mm BB? That's the unclear part of the manual), then on the driveside, just before the crankarm, use the wider black spacer that's left of the manual.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  8. #8
    Norðwegr
    Reputation: Vegard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,448
    Should both shields have the flat side face against the bearing? That puzzles me as the picture in the manual only shows one of the indentations on the shield facing outwards.

    So far I have to say that I'm not impressed with SRAM manuals, then again after having done this once I should be set for life..

  9. #9
    Norðwegr
    Reputation: Vegard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,448
    Popped the crank on with both shields facing outwards, all is fine until the crank is torqued to spec. There is a slight wiggle in the spindle as I can push it back and forth roughly 1mm. I assume that's what the preload is for, but when it's tightened to a point where it stops the wiggle it also prevents the cranks to spin as free as they should.

    I feel like a newb, oh wait I am.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Thatshowiroll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    Popped the crank on with both shields facing outwards, all is fine until the crank is torqued to spec. There is a slight wiggle in the spindle as I can push it back and forth roughly 1mm. I assume that's what the preload is for, but when it's tightened to a point where it stops the wiggle it also prevents the cranks to spin as free as they should.

    I feel like a newb, oh wait I am.
    I have the same problem with my preload nut. It's barely tight, tighten more, and crank stops turning. I'm glad you asked this. Looking forward to the answer.

  11. #11
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegard View Post
    Popped the crank on with both shields facing outwards, all is fine until the crank is torqued to spec. There is a slight wiggle in the spindle as I can push it back and forth roughly 1mm. I assume that's what the preload is for, but when it's tightened to a point where it stops the wiggle it also prevents the cranks to spin as free as they should.

    I feel like a newb, oh wait I am.
    So currently this is with the sheilds flat sides against the bearings? I think I get it now... Tightening them presses the sheilds against the outside race of the bearings but they only should press against the inside race, that's probably what prevents the crank to spin freely. The sheilds spin with the crankset so should not contact the outside race that is static, fixed into the frame, makes sense? I should have thought about that before (I blame too few coffees).

    Let's screw the SRAM manual at this point. Flip the sheilds so their flat faces are facing out and add the wave washer between the preload collar and the non-drive-side sheild. The wave washer will take the additional gap flipping the sheild will create and make it much easier to get the preload just right. Tighten the collar (after the crankarm is tightened) enough to have the wave washer compress a bit, but not to the point it becomes completely flattened. If you can't get it tight enough, use one or more thin transparent washers next to the wave washer.

    You'll be the XX1 crank expert when this is all set! It would have been easier for me to get it right straight away but I haven't installed a XX1 crankset yet (and not many SRAM cranks either), I'm a Hollowgram kind of guy! But maybe I should apply for a job at SRAM to design their manuals...
    Last edited by Dan Gerous; 03-21-2013 at 08:43 PM.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BoostN7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    708
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous View Post
    So currently this is with the sheilds flat sides against the bearings? I think I get it now... Tightening them presses the sheilds against the outside race of the bearings but they only should press against the inside race, that's probably what prevents the crank to spin freely. The sheilds spin with the crankset so should not contact the outside race that is static, fixed into the frame, makes sense?

    Let's screw the SRAM manual at this point. Flip the sheilds so their flat faces are facing out and add the wave washer between the preload collar and the non-drive-side sheild. The wave washer will take the additional gap flipping the sheild will create and make it much easier to get the preload just right. Tighten the collar (after the crankarm is tightened) enough to have the wave washer compress a bit, but not to the point it becomes completely flattened. If you can't get it tight enough, use one or more thin transparent washers next to the wave washer.

    You'll be the XX1 crank expert when this is all set! It would have been easier for me to get it right straight away but I haven't installed a XX1 crankset yet (and not many SRAM cranks either), I'm a Hollowgram kind of guy! But maybe I should apply for a job at SRAM to design their manuals...
    I know where to come when I upgrade to XX1 with Hollowgram cranks
    and no, I am not missing the other half of my fork....

  13. #13
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    Quote Originally Posted by BoostN7 View Post
    I know where to come when I upgrade to XX1 with Hollowgram cranks
    Haa!
    It should be easier with the XX1 Hollowgram, only need to mount the spider, BB install will be just as before if you update a current Hollowgram but the upcoming Hollowgram SISL2 have clear instructions already...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BoostN7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    708
    it's going to be really hard to resist buying that when it comes out. I think I'm gonna wait for my XX cassette to wear out, then replace the whole lot. Might save some weight whilst I'm there. Even with a bike like mine, I can still improve it; but for a price
    and no, I am not missing the other half of my fork....

  15. #15
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    No news, I guess Vegard has everything working smoothly now and can't stop riding!

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  16. #16
    Norðwegr
    Reputation: Vegard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,448
    Sadly no, there's still a tiny glip in the crank when installed. Haven't had the time to do anything about it yet..

    Will try using one of the wave washers aswell

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    93
    just wondering if this was ever resolved. Looking at XX1 for my Scalpel 29. I am guessing I will need the 168 version and a lot of different spacers, etc?

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: freak6767's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    102
    Just got XX1 installed on my Scalpel29 today, didn't find any issues, everything went smoothly.
    I used the 32t q168 in 175mm for the cranks.
    Mavic SLR for now (Reynolds is supposed to sell their XX1 freehub at the end of the month, so i will put them back then)

    32x10 is more than ok for hitting the road to the local trails, and enough for downhill.

    Going to the trails tomorrow for a proper test, but already definitely not disappointed!

    Cockpit is very neat!

    Will post pictures if it can help.

  19. #19
    don't stop
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    115
    I just got my XX1 crank. There was no bearing shields, wave washers, or thin spacers in the box? Only the big black spacer with the lip on each side. Did something get missed, or are all those other small parts coming with the BB30 bearing kit (and/or, my trigger 29err whenever it comes).

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by freak6767 View Post
    Just got XX1 installed on my Scalpel29 today, didn't find any issues, everything went smoothly.
    I used the 32t q168 in 175mm for the cranks.
    I also just installed an XX1 BB30 crank on a Scalpel this morning with the stock 32T chainring with no issues whatsoever. The likely culprit with the OP is the 36T chainring. Perhaps there's not enough chainstay clearance on the Scalpel for a 36T with a 49mm chainline.

    Check this document for measurements: http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/Yp...ifications.pdf

  21. #21
    don't stop
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    115
    What spacers came in your XX1 crankset box?

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    196
    The BB30 crank? None. I've got a GXP XX1 on another bike as well. No spacers were provided with either of my cranks. I used the hardware provided with the Sram BB30 kit (shown above from another mtbr user).

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: freak6767's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    102
    I just used the black spacer provided by Sram with the XX1 crank, nothing more. (on the chainring side, and nothing on the other side)

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    97

    Installing XX1 crank questions

    Same here. Just the wide spacer that came with, on the chainring side.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: freak6767's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    102
    Just a quick follow-up, after installing the XX1:

    I did my first proper ride with timed event this sunday, 42Km.
    While the the whole ride was perfect (dry condition, then mud part, the XX1 was just solid and constant! amazing), I am now left a day after, with some huge lower back pain, like I've never experienced before!

    Same bike that I used to do 50Km last week, similar condition.
    Only the XX1 changed on this bike.

    Do you think it's pure coincidence, or Q-factor of the XX1 cranks might be wrong? (I bought the 175mm with Q168)
    I still have my XO crankset, I'm gonna measure it.
    But would a change in QFactor, causes such back pain that fast?? (I heard you could sometime feel it with your knee, and more often on road bike where it's more important)

    I don't know what's going on...! 2 rides with XX1, same bike as before, and huge back pain each time now !

    arghhhhhhhhhhhh!
    Last edited by freak6767; 04-15-2013 at 04:28 AM.

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    210
    I'm quite sure the Q-factor is going to be more or less the same. It must be something else (I think).

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    258
    You more than likely have something else going on. If you want to rule out the crank, just swap out the cranks and put the xx1 spider/ring on the xo crank. The xx1 and xo cranks are essentially the same.
    Hope you get it figured out.

  28. #28
    Norðwegr
    Reputation: Vegard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,448
    I'm considering my crank issues resolved, just used the wide black spacer that came with the crank and went full retard on the preload adjustment to get it just right. Seems all it needed was some very accurate adjustmentto get it running properly.


    Quote Originally Posted by runbaileyrun View Post
    I just got my XX1 crank. There was no bearing shields, wave washers, or thin spacers in the box? Only the big black spacer with the lip on each side. Did something get missed, or are all those other small parts coming with the BB30 bearing kit (and/or, my trigger 29err whenever it comes).
    It came withthe SRAM BB kit..

    Quote Originally Posted by freak6767 View Post
    Just a quick follow-up, after installing the XX1:

    I did my first proper ride with timed event this sunday, 42Km.
    While the the whole ride was perfect (dry condition, then mud part, the XX1 was just solid and constant! amazing), I am now left a day after, with some huge lower back pain, like I've never experienced before!

    Same bike that I used to do 50Km last week, similar condition.
    Only the XX1 changed on this bike.

    Do you think it's pure coincidence, or Q-factor of the XX1 cranks might be wrong? (I bought the 175mm with Q168)
    I still have my XO crankset, I'm gonna measure it.
    But would a change in QFactor, causes such back pain that fast?? (I heard you could sometime feel it with your knee, and more often on road bike where it's more important)

    I don't know what's going on...! 2 rides with XX1, same bike as before, and huge back pain each time now !

    arghhhhhhhhhhhh!
    That is very wierd indeed, the difference in width isn't that much when you really think about it.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    825
    Ordered an XX1(32T) for my Scalpel 2 days ago.
    LBS told me Q factor of 156. We'll see how it goes!
    2011 C-Dale Flash 1 650b
    2013 Scott Genius 930
    2015 Charge Cooker Maxi

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    825
    Had the Crank (Q156) installed yesterday and although everything on the driveside lines up perfectly, the non drive side crank arm is less than an 1/8" from smacking the chainstay... I do not think this is correct... I have emailed the LBS in hopes that they can figure it out quickly. Thoughts anyone???

    I took off a carbon XO crank to replace with this, but I am reading that the XO cranks will work with the XX1 spider and sprocket?
    2011 C-Dale Flash 1 650b
    2013 Scott Genius 930
    2015 Charge Cooker Maxi

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    73
    The 156 Q that Sram offers is a little tight on most Cannondale frames. You're always safer with the larger Q factor spec on a Cannondale. FYI....The Hollowgram mountain setup has a Q factor of approx. 169.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    825
    Found out my LBS actually ordered the 168, not the 156.
    It is still tight on the non drive side, but it should still work...
    2011 C-Dale Flash 1 650b
    2013 Scott Genius 930
    2015 Charge Cooker Maxi

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1,019
    I am running XX1 cranks with BB92/Gxp. I too find when I tighten the cranks to eliminate play, the rubber seals seem to be dragging on the static surface of the bearings. Can someone explain again which way to orient the seals in order to eliminate the drag?

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    20
    I have a 2013 cannondale frame and just bought a XX1 drivetrain, everything went okay then the installing of the crank began.
    It is a 73mm frame. BB30.

    We did it as the SRAM manual said. But the crank arms started to hit the chain stays, so we decided to put a spacer on the non-drive side and the drive side hit the frame, so we put both the spacers and everything seem to be perfect, when I went to test it, there was a little play in the crank spindle, like 1mm.

    What do I do? If I put the spacers, there is play in the cranks, and if I take them out, the crank arms hit the frame.

    It is a 156q XX1 crankset but from what I've read, it is compatible with this frame.

    Please help! I'm losing riding days!

  35. #35
    Norðwegr
    Reputation: Vegard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,448
    Side to side play I assume, and the preload nut isn't taking care of it?

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,074
    I dont have a scalpel, but I ran into issues on my flash.

    There is basically no room for preloading (ok maybe a turn or two)

    I ended up with the 9.1mm spacer and the sram bb30 shields. Even with the wave washer in it is really tight. I am glad to hear that it isnt needed!

    So the 36t does clear now? I know companies like wolftooth only make up to 34t for the bb30 cranks. I figured it was due to clearance.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bikeguy0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    216
    Don't have a Cannondale so take this for what it's worth. I have a Niner Air 9 RDO and Niner specifically states that you cannot use larger then a 32T ring on XX1 on the frame. XX1 brings the ring in farther then the outside ring would be on a 2x10 system. This means it is closer to the chain stay and you can't run as large of a ring dependent upon the design of width of the chain stays of the frame you're using.

    I would be careful about adding spacers that aren't supposed to be used based on you're BB width. These cranks are designed to be torqued to the correct settings and wave washers (GXP) or Integrated Adapters (PF30 non-drive side threaded) used to preload the bearings and take up play.

    If you can get it to work more power to you...I am having my own BB issue right now on a Giant frame.
    My Team: Myself
    My Blog: thebrassnipple.wordpress.com

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    3
    2013 Scalpel, just installed xx1 Q 156 with wolf chainring 32T and it fits not by much, but it does.

Similar Threads

  1. Some questions about installing a new fork.
    By bcon in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-22-2012, 10:35 PM
  2. New crank questions
    By Triaxtremec in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-08-2012, 08:31 PM
  3. Problem installing M770 crank in new BB90 bearing
    By JezV in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-31-2011, 06:48 AM
  4. Installing new Hope Tech's: 3 Questions
    By 007 in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-24-2011, 06:54 PM
  5. Installing XT crank question
    By jrrider in forum Drivetrain - shifters, derailleurs, cranks
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-10-2011, 09:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •