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  1. #1
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    Input on frame - Rush or Rize

    Currently have a 2010 Scalpel 2. Finding the ride a little too harsh so I'm thinking of buying a Rush or Rize carbon 1 frame and swapping my components over.

    Questions:

    1. should I go for a Rush or Rize frame - pros/cons of one over the other
    2. will I need to get any other bits/pieces to make the swap over (i.e. bb spindle)

    Any input appreciated...later...

  2. #2
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    I moved from a 2005 team scalpel to a 2009 rize. The transition was like moving from a hardtail to a full suspension bike. You won't be disappointed. I'm very pleased with the way the rize handles for the recreational riding I do. I don't have any experience with the rush so I can't help you there.

    I would suggest riding what you can locally to help for your conclusion. The rush model is also on the outs which may provide for some good deals if it's the right fit for you.

  3. #3
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    I really enjoy my rize for pretty much everything. I have the rize 3 so its alum. not carbon like you want but geo still say "fun" on either frame.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkestar
    Currently have a 2010 Scalpel 2. Finding the ride a little too harsh so I'm thinking of buying a Rush or Rize carbon 1 frame and swapping my components over.

    Questions:

    1. should I go for a Rush or Rize frame - pros/cons of one over the other
    2. will I need to get any other bits/pieces to make the swap over (i.e. bb spindle)

    Any input appreciated...later...
    I have a 2009 alu Rize 3 , it is comfortable, not plush, without losing precison.

    I haven't ridden a Rush but I have ridden a 2011 Super Scalpel , that thing is a rocketship for a mountain road and I agree that unless you are 100% committed it can be a harsh and demanding ride.

  5. #5
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    Either or.

    I own a Prophet and a Rize.
    The Prophet has the same rear swing arm as the Rush.

    They are both advertised as single pivot but the Rush is faling rate with considerably*less bearing interfaces (therefore less maintenance issues) than the Rize which is a rising rate rear suspension design..

    The Rize is a rocket ship and and all mountain dream that can handle everything and be ridden for extended periods of (great climber and marathon racer) .

    "Dan Conners, the engineer who led the Rize project, explains that moving any one point in the linkage as little as 5 millimeters could make the difference between a rising rate and a falling rate. In the case of the Rize, which uses an, ahem, “Rizing rate” linkage, the idea is that the bike will be supple off the top, stable in the middle for pedaling and have an end-stroke that plays nice with air shocks’ inherently progressive nature.

    The Prophet, by comparison, had a falling rate. It's a subtle difference that Cannondale engineers use to point that this new bike is directed more toward all-day/every-day all-kinds-of-trails trail riding, where priority is put on efficiency with a little extra cushin' for the pushin'. The Prophet, on the other hand, was designed as more of a do all bike, including Rize and Moto duties, so the suspension was engineered a little differently.".

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the input. After doing a little research I came to the conclusion that the rize was the way to go. I nabbed a carbon 1 brand new warranty claim frame off ebay and will be moving my scalpel bits and pieces over by the end of this week. Really looking forward to a more plushier rear. The scalpel is an awesome bike makes climbing a breeze (like someone said it feels like the hand of god is pulling you along) but the advertised rear 110mm of travel feels more like 50, if that, imo.

    Thus far I believe the only extra bits I need to get is 1) a seat post since the rize is 31.6 vs the 27.2 on the scalpel and 2) I'll need a 34.9 hi clamp top pull front derailleur, scalpel uses down pull.

    The only issue that is got me wondering now is if my 110 fork will throw the geo off and make things handle oddly. I'm hoping 20 mm won't be that big a deal. I'm thinking playing with the sag will help mitigate this.

    As always, comments appreciated.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkestar
    The only issue that is got me wondering now is if my 110 fork will throw the geo off and make things handle oddly. I'm hoping 20 mm won't be that big a deal. I'm thinking playing with the sag will help mitigate this.

    As always, comments appreciated.
    AFAIK you can't run that frame with a 110mm front suspension. It has long travel geometry. I would sell your 110mm Lefty and acquire either a 130MM or better yet a 140 MM PBR or RLC Lefty off Ebay.

    Don't do this project half baked , follow through with the whole cigar or you won't be happy.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elzippo
    AFAIK you can't run that frame with a 110mm front suspension. It has long travel geometry. I would sell your 110mm Lefty and acquire either a 130MM or better yet a 140 MM PBR or RLC Lefty off Ebay.

    Don't do this project half baked , follow through with the whole cigar or you won't be happy.
    Hmmm...this is a 2009 rize which was spec'd as 130mm. Will 20mm really make that much of a difference?

    I've yet to bottom out my 110 fork and have ridden quite a bit of gnarly drops on the north shore with the scalpel. I don't have any issues with the scalpel geo (just the rear harshness) and running a marginally shorter front fork on the rize would tend to make the rize angles (72.5/68.5) slightly steeper similar to the scalpel (74/69).

    I think eventually I'll source a 130 fork but for now Im hoping the 110 will be ok. Don't have the funds to buy a 130 right now and I don't want to sell my 110 since I plan on keeping the scalpel frame.

  9. #9
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    Do a search, a German bike magazine actually measured the Rize's rear travel at 142mm on the alum and 145mm on the carbon. 130mm was more like a marketing thing to match up the 130mm forks that they offered.
    Last edited by hypercycler; 08-17-2010 at 01:08 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypercycler
    Do a search, a German bike magazine actually measured the Rize's rear travel at 142mm on the alum and 145mm on the carbon. 130mm was more like an marketing thing to match up the 130mm forks that they offered.
    Will do the search...taking this into consideration then maybe a cheaper alternative then is to get a rear shock with a shorter stroke until I can afford the 140 fork.

    My scalpel has the monarch 3.3 with a 1.5 inch stroke vs the 2" stroke of the fox rp23 shipped on the rize. Maybe moving the rear shock over is a short term option to equal the travel out? Do I have to be concerned about the rising rate linkage or is that moot in this case?

  11. #11
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    you need to ask yourself what type of riding you will be doing first. i've owned all three bikes.

    the scalpel is a race bike, the rush can be both a race and a trail bike and the rize is a trail bike.

    sort out what you want and then choose.

  12. #12
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    One thing I've notice moving from the Scalpel to the Rize, I don't feel beat up anymore after riding a few hours on the same pounding trail. Here I thought I was getting old. The Rize makes me feel much fresher and younger after a ride. Not quite the fountain of youth but I'll take it.

    Most suspensions on off road motorcycles incorporate a rising rate rear suspension linkage. It allow subtle responses to small bumps but also is capable of swallowing up bigger hits without blowing through the travel and bottoming out hard. The challenge with bicycles is that subtle wheel rate at the top of travel pretty much equates to riding a pogo stick. Very bouncy indeed. The falling rate suspensions were intended to help reduce pedal bob.

    With the newer breed of platform shocks out there, the pedal bob reduction is handled much more effectively with valving in the shock. This allows the freedom to design a suspension to work much more effectively through its full range of travel. After long climbs I have on occasion forgotten to turn off the platform switch on the fox shock. The very slightly firmer feel goes unnoticed as I ride the rest of a very rocky trail in that mode. That rear shock works great in both settings. Platform shocks are a great advancement forward in bicycle suspension technology. This is definitely where the Rize wins out.

    I have a Rize 2 Carbon. I preferred the Fox RLC damper. The ability to fine tune how big of a hit I want before the front suspension starts to work has been a feature long overdue. Great platform to tune in ones one desired riding style.

  13. #13
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    Ok, move complete. Was a piece of cake. I previously had bought some tools so I could maintain the bike so re/re'ing bearings, bb and steerer was no problem. Gotta love SI.

    Rides awesome. Scalpel climbed better but no contest on the descent. Scalpel left me beat up on long gnarly descents. Rize had me wanting to do a second loop. Locking out the fork and running p/p 3 on the rp23 made the rize climb almost as good as the scalpel.

    Here's a link to some pics in the Post your Rize thread.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...37#post7242937

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