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  1. #1
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    Innovations at CANNONDALE?

    Here i guess we should make a list of all the innovations that Cannondale brought to the world of cycling and WHY we like them so much:

    1- The HEADSHOCK is a system that hasn't change much since it's inception in 1992.
    2- Cannondale started to build dual suspension bikes using single pivot designs and tryed multi-links but went back to single pivots with they're tested and true geometry
    3- Cannondale were amongst the first company to manufacture aluminum bikes
    4- Cannondale was one of the first company to sand down there weldings
    5- They brought dual suspension XC racing bikes to the podium with 100mm forks and discs brakes while the other companies still used v-brakes and 80mm forks (EX: TREK)
    6- They use innovative materials for lighter weights (SCALPEL: Plastic and Carbon)
    7- Always pushing the limits of technology with the lightest production road frames (OPTIMO)
    8- Hourglass seat stays on road bikes make it more confortable then most Carbon seatstays (and lighter)
    9- They build the bike that wouldn't break for Shaquille O'Neal
    10- You can see the heritage on their new bikes from other models, in other words, you can see the evolution of a design: Not trying to re-invent the wheel!

    Anything else???

    PS: I started this cause i wasn't a fan of Cannondale before i finally bought one in 2002 (a F1000 woody) and it came out to be the best bike i've had since 1992! Now i can't wait to get my hands on the prophet... and i'm tired of hearing the bashing everywhere... Cannondale innovates a lot.. Not like TREK (for exemple) who takes years before they change something... I can't believe they waited until 2005 to put DISCS BRAKES on their bikes! Finally!

  2. #2
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    And the "not so" top of the line Top-Fuel 100 still has el cheapo v-brakes and the bike costs what?

    - What about the Lefty?
    - The term "freeride"
    - SI Hollowgram crankset

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  3. #3
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    I donít know that hourglass stays are a necessarily Cannondale innovation and Cannondale have produced some lemons along the way too. For example, Ravens had plenty of failures (not to mention being recalled) and so have their elevated chain stay rear triangles of a few years back. But that goes with the territory of being brave enough to try something innovative. I would even go so far as to say that I might become disenchanted with that innovative spirit if I had bought one of those bikes that turned out to be somewhat of a lemon or not upgradeable because of using non-standard technology and designs. To their credit, their customer service has a pretty favorable reputation and I can attest to this personally as well.

    A high profile company like Cannondale will also get itís share of haters just because they have had some measure of success and not necessarily because of any tangible reason. Many people wonít own something that is popular just because of it being popular. They want to be seen as the person that is not a sheep and had the wisdom to see that there is something better out there, which may or may not be the case, but they just have to be different. I donít really worry that all of the world doesnít feel the same way about my bike as I do. Whatever floats their boat.

    Just for the record, they are among my favorite brands. I think that they generally produce some very high quality frames and I actually believe that some of their models are among the best values at their given price points and then again, some are not. I also like that they push design envelopes at times even though sometimes it doesnít work out. Three of the bikes at my house are Cannondales and I always look forward to see what they will produce next. I donít like to see lies about anybody or anything, but if some people just donít like them, thatís certainly their prerogative.

  4. #4
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    There's nothing wrong with XT/XTR or Avid SD7/Ti/Ultimate V-brakes. Granted they don't have the modulation of hydraulic discs... but they are lighter than disc setups for these reasons.

    Lighter non-disc hubs
    Six less mounting bolts.
    Less weight from not needing a rotor.

    All that adds up to a lighter wheelset, and if you're going to shave weight, the wheelset is the best place to do so.... So for a lightweight XC bike, discs are out...

    Now if I had a heavier, trail/freeride/downhill bike, and/or had to deal with rainy, wet trails... Discs would definately be on my ride.



    Aside from trying to trademark the term 'freeride', and that whole motorcycle thing, I think Cannondale has some great innovations. I just wish they'd drop this whole SI stuff!! Thats one of the reasons why I didn't buy a Scalpel. I was shopping when they were on the verge of bankruptcy and didn't want to get stuck with a bike I couldn't get parts for.

    All the recalls on the bikes (especially for frame failures) doesn't install confidence either.

    Also, they are just too damn expensive!

    MyI have a Super V and get all giddy when I see Leftys, Geminis and my personal favorite the 1FG. I'm really anxious to see the Prophet as well. Even though I have my gripes, I'm still a Cannondale fan, even though sometimes I wonder why...




    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    And the "not so" top of the line Top-Fuel 100 still has el cheapo v-brakes and the bike costs what?

    - What about the Lefty?
    - The term "freeride"
    - SI Hollowgram crankset
    Last edited by funboarder1971; 09-02-2004 at 09:44 AM.

  5. #5
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    Why do a company that nearly went under sell their bikes way over priced. Dosnt make sense.

    Team Scalpel vs F4000sl price diff over £1100!!!!!

    Only difference a rear shock and a SI hollogram crank. Please tell how they justify their prices.

    Most top end full susp bikes retail for the same price as the F4000sl.

    How are Cannondale any better then Giant? Bianchi?, Trek?, Yeti?

    I still beleive Cannondale are a bike company in trouble. Pushing gimmicks hoping it will give them the edge and justify their prices.

    The Raven must be one of the ugliest and stupid bikes I have ever seen. Yet they wanted over £4000 for that !!!!

    They now make some nice bikes but there are better out there and more reasonably priced.

  6. #6
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    Dales

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Why do a company that nearly went under sell their bikes way over priced. Dosnt make sense.

    Team Scalpel vs F4000sl price diff over ?1100!!!!!

    Only difference a rear shock and a SI hollogram crank. Please tell how they justify their prices.

    Most top end full susp bikes retail for the same price as the F4000sl.

    How are Cannondale any better then Giant? Bianchi?, Trek?, Yeti?

    I still beleive Cannondale are a bike company in trouble. Pushing gimmicks hoping it will give them the edge and justify their prices.

    The Raven must be one of the ugliest and stupid bikes I have ever seen. Yet they wanted over ?4000 for that !!!!

    They now make some nice bikes but there are better out there and more reasonably priced.
    As for the post that got this whole thing started. You say you are tired of Cannondale bashing but why are you bashing Trek then? This is just adding fuel to the fire (no pun intended) because now Trek owners are going to bash Dale owners. I dont own a Cannondale or a Trek but I like the product of both companies. If you want to state why you think Cannondale is a good company fine but dont bash a competent competitor like Trek.

    As for Klein Attitudes post (I think?) Cannondale is in not in trouble by anymeans. Cannondale got into financial trouble when they invested over 100 million hoping a new motorcycle line would take off. Bicycles have nothing to do with why Cannondale filed bankruptcy. On the bike end of things Cannondale has a huge profit margin and continue to sell large quantities of bikes and were never in any trouble profit wise or are in trouble currently concerning bicycle economics. Everywhere I look I see a Cannondale bike.

    Cannondale might not be better than Trek, Giant, Yeti, or Bianchi, well personally I think many companies are better than Bianchi but it comes down to rider preference and many riders happen to like Cannondale just fine. There is also many companies that sell bikes for more than Cannondale. Ellsworth, Yeti, Turner, Santacruz, to name a few. The new Gemini series is one of the best deals around for an aggressive trail bike right now. Most companies that spec with similar parts are quite a bit more$$$$. The 04 Gemini 900 is well under 3000.00 CDN and is very nice. Part of the reason why Dale prices some of their models higher may be because the bikes are made in the US which increases production costs.

  7. #7
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    OPTIMO isn't even close to the lightest production road frames. Try more than 1.5 pounds off the mark. For the remainder I like most of their race grade bikes. One of the main reasons I bought the Scalpel was for the Lefty and SI Hollowgram cranks. I'd like them to push separate frame sales more however. In Europe still very hard to get, which might change for 05 I hope. None of their stuff is a great deal here. Their pricing is up to 150% higher than the US. Just plain ridiculous considering the gross of the parts are from Asia or Europe. Only way to build a high-end version up for a competitive price is to get the frameset....maybe that's why they don't like selling them here.

  8. #8
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    Yes I have always noticed how Cannondale dont sell their frames?

    I think they know that their bike sales would drop. Or that certain bikes would be devaluated.

    I mean if we could by a Team Scalpel frame and put XT and normal rims on it wouldnt we be saving over £2000. But they dont want that.

    Cannodale are a rip off make. Sad to say as a Cannondale fan.

    But think of the bike you can get for a fraction of a team scalpel price.

    Trek Fuel 100
    Giant Carbon NRS
    Yeti AS-R SL
    Specialized Epic Special Edition

    All for £1200 less than the team scalpel here in the UK. Infact the Scalpel 2000 costs more than the above bikes. And the f4000sl.

    With the money your save you can buy another good quality hardtrail.!!

    Pure pure madness.

  9. #9
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    First off, i didn't intend to bash on TREK, they're a great company, just a bit too conformist for me that's all. I got my best road bike from trek, a wonderful USPS bike that was light and efficient.

    Then, about the price thing... When the scalpel 3000 came out, it was priced at 4600$CAN for a full XTR race rig. Well below the same bike over at TREK for the Fuel 100 at 6000$ with V-brakes.

    Now this year, the Scalpel 2000 with complete FULL XT components and nice and light tubeless wheelset is selling for 3200$ compare to the FUEL 98 at 4600$...

    How does that compare? Why is everyone saying Cannondale are too expensive, i never got that! Now, i know sometimes there price list is a bit ****ed up... For example, this year, the Jekyll 1000 ($3200) and the Jekyll 2000 ($4100) only had a few differences: XT cranks, Easton bars... things you could buy separately for way less then the price tag difference! At the same time, you could get the scalpel 2000 for 3200$ that had the exact same component the the Jekyll 2000 but 900$ cheaper!

  10. #10
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    Pricing is okay anywhere but in Europe. Somehow they decided to market their stuff here with a certain level exclusivity. Sort of like how anything Italian is priced high in the US but not to the extent Cannondale in Europe however. How does Team Replica Six13 or Team Scalpel for over $8600 sound to you? Not sustainable in this day and age anymore. They need to do away with the old business model.

  11. #11
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    Pricy.

    Quote Originally Posted by divve
    Pricing is okay anywhere but in Europe. Somehow they decided to market their stuff here with a certain level exclusivity. Sort of like how anything Italian is priced high in the US but not to the extent Cannondale in Europe however. How does Team Replica Six13 or Team Scalpel for over $8600 sound to you? Not sustainable in this day and age anymore. They need to do away with the old business model.
    Ouch! That is pricy. Bikes are very pricy in Canada as well, but not to the extent that you describe. My bike frame retails for $1500.00 give or take a hundred bucks in the States and here in Canada it retails for $2400.00. I am buying my next bike used for sure.

  12. #12
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    Upset

    diive where abouts in europe are you from?

    If i was american I could buy 2 team scalpels for near the price of one here.

    Cannodale are fleecing the UK market. Their low end bikes are appauling for their price.

    My Attitude cost me £1500. The shop had a demo day and there where Trek,Fisher,Kona,Specialized and everyone said wow.

    Just look at the attention to detail, build quality and paintwork of the Klein.

    Where does that statement fit into Cannodales ethos? If a Cannondale bike would have been there at the same price as my bike they would have laughed at it.

    The F3000sl at more than twice the price would have only just matched it at the time.

    As an example Cannondale Europe have slashed bikes down in their 2004 clearance and have just exposed how much they over price bikes in Europe.

    Team Scalpel nearly £600-800 off.
    F4000sl £900 off !!!
    Jeckylls nearly 50% off

    I know of alot of dealers who simply stopped dealing with Cannondale. Their argument was they are hard to sell and their is better priced bikes around. Most dealers that do stock Cannondale only have the low end models and if you want anything better it has to be specially ordered from Holland.

    Where they will have your model sitting in the warehouse gathering dust. While some accountant decides on how much to price it up by.

    As a Cannondale fan it is hard to say. But true.

    Cannodale offer bugger all for value. And the innovations are pointless and faddish.

    Scalpel old Specialized FSR design
    Prophet Yeti As-R copy
    Raven total disaster
    Optimo Still heavier than most
    Lefty ELO bad design
    SI Hollogram Needless
    Carbon Chainstays Disaster waiting to happen
    More Callbacks than most

    And is this why we pay the extra bucks

    I cant see any original design or innovation there.

  13. #13
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    Lefty

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    diive where abouts in europe are you from?

    If i was american I could buy 2 team scalpels for near the price of one here.

    Cannodale are fleecing the UK market. Their low end bikes are appauling for their price.

    My Attitude cost me ?1500. The shop had a demo day and there where Trek,Fisher,Kona,Specialized and everyone said wow.

    Just look at the attention to detail, build quality and paintwork of the Klein.

    Where does that statement fit into Cannodales ethos? If a Cannondale bike would have been there at the same price as my bike they would have laughed at it.

    The F3000sl at more than twice the price would have only just matched it at the time.


    The lefty is about as innovative and original as it gets period. I have heard many good things about the lefty and I have tested it and it works. As far as the prophet copying the Yeti, maybe but does the ASR have 6" of travel.(I am not sure on this). All manufacturers copy designs, Look at how FSR suspension has been shopped around and VPP with Intense and Santa cruz. The Ellsworth Joker, SC bullit, Yeti ASX are all similar as well. Maybe not in appearance but geometry, function, and component spec. Cannondale has stepped it up big time as far as value especially for the freeride market. Cannondale does not need to re-invent the wheel. If it aint broke dont fix it. The Geminis, Jekyls, and Scalpels are highly touted bikes. They may not work for everyone but obviously many people like them because where I live there is Cannondale bikes everywhere. Road bikes, mountain bikes, tandems, you name it. They must be doing something right.

    As an example Cannondale Europe have slashed bikes down in their 2004 clearance and have just exposed how much they over price bikes in Europe.

    Team Scalpel nearly ?600-800 off.
    F4000sl ?900 off !!!
    Jeckylls nearly 50% off

    I know of alot of dealers who simply stopped dealing with Cannondale. Their argument was they are hard to sell and their is better priced bikes around. Most dealers that do stock Cannondale only have the low end models and if you want anything better it has to be specially ordered from Holland.

    Where they will have your model sitting in the warehouse gathering dust. While some accountant decides on how much to price it up by.

    As a Cannondale fan it is hard to say. But true.

    Cannodale offer bugger all for value. And the innovations are pointless and faddish.

    Scalpel old Specialized FSR design
    Prophet Yeti As-R copy
    Raven total disaster
    Optimo Still heavier than most
    Lefty ELO bad design
    SI Hollogram Needless
    Carbon Chainstays Disaster waiting to happen
    More Callbacks than most

    And is this why we pay the extra bucks

    I cant see any original design or innovation there.
    The lefty is about as innovative and original as it gets period. I have heard many good things about the lefty and I have tested it and it works. As far as the prophet copying the Yeti, maybe but does the ASR have 6" of travel.(I am not sure on this). All manufacturers copy designs, Look at how FSR suspension has been shopped around and VPP with Intense and Santa cruz. The Ellsworth Joker, SC bullit, Yeti ASX are all similar as well. Maybe not in appearance but geometry, function, and component spec. Cannondale has stepped it up big time as far as value especially for the freeride market. Cannondale does not need to re-invent the wheel. If it aint broke dont fix it. The Geminis, Jekyls, and Scalpels are highly touted bikes. They may not work for everyone but obviously many people like them because where I live there is Cannondale bikes everywhere. Road bikes, mountain bikes, tandems, you name it. They must be doing something right

  14. #14
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    I'll throw in my two cents as a former Cannodale owner, and why I no longer am. When I went looking for a mountain bike in 2000, I started with Cannondale. What I found in my $500-600 range was a bike with mediocre components, a joke of a fork (headshock with no dampening) and a poundingly stiff frame. I ended up after riding some other bikes (Giant, to stiff, Trek, almost but not quite) with a Gary Fisher Kaitai that was a much more comfortable and better handling bike.

    Does Cannondale make some great bikes? Yes. But I think their venture into motorcycles put them years behind the curve on Mountain bike development. SIngle pivots!!! Come on, there are much better designs. Headshock, looks like they finally let that go. Innovation is great, but doing things differently, just to be unique is not always a good thing. I for one, hope that some of that innovative thinking that really works comes back.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  15. #15
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    My 2003 Liquid has disc brakes from the factory. I believe there was a disc model of the Fuel 90 available in 2002 as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigJay
    PS: I started this cause i wasn't a fan of Cannondale before i finally bought one in 2002 (a F1000 woody) and it came out to be the best bike i've had since 1992! Now i can't wait to get my hands on the prophet... and i'm tired of hearing the bashing everywhere... Cannondale innovates a lot.. Not like TREK (for exemple) who takes years before they change something... I can't believe they waited until 2005 to put DISCS BRAKES on their bikes! Finally!

  16. #16
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    Hey Klein(BAD)Attitude

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    diive where abouts in europe are you from?

    If i was american I could buy 2 team scalpels for near the price of one here.

    Cannodale are fleecing the UK market. Their low end bikes are appauling for their price.

    My Attitude cost me ?1500. The shop had a demo day and there where Trek,Fisher,Kona,Specialized and everyone said wow.

    Just look at the attention to detail, build quality and paintwork of the Klein.

    Where does that statement fit into Cannodales ethos? If a Cannondale bike would have been there at the same price as my bike they would have laughed at it.

    The F3000sl at more than twice the price would have only just matched it at the time.

    As an example Cannondale Europe have slashed bikes down in their 2004 clearance and have just exposed how much they over price bikes in Europe.

    Team Scalpel nearly ?600-800 off.
    F4000sl ?900 off !!!
    Jeckylls nearly 50% off

    I know of alot of dealers who simply stopped dealing with Cannondale. Their argument was they are hard to sell and their is better priced bikes around. Most dealers that do stock Cannondale only have the low end models and if you want anything better it has to be specially ordered from Holland.

    Where they will have your model sitting in the warehouse gathering dust. While some accountant decides on how much to price it up by.

    As a Cannondale fan it is hard to say. But true.

    Cannodale offer bugger all for value. And the innovations are pointless and faddish.

    Scalpel old Specialized FSR design
    Prophet Yeti As-R copy
    Raven total disaster
    Optimo Still heavier than most
    Lefty ELO bad design
    SI Hollogram Needless
    Carbon Chainstays Disaster waiting to happen
    More Callbacks than most

    And is this why we pay the extra bucks

    I cant see any original design or innovation there.
    It is obvious by your ID what brand of bike you are partial to as it is with my ID.

    But do you really believe all the crap you write on these posts?

    You spend a lot of time on this forum "Cannondale" posting how unfair the prices are and bashing them.

    I've wondered if you go back to the Trek - Gary Fisher - Klein - Bontrager, forum and tell everyone how bad you bashed Cannondales on this forum.

    I wonder why they group Trek - Gary Fisher - Klein - Bontrager brands together on one forum?

    Ask someone on the street if they've ever heard of a Klein bicycle?

    Ask that same person if they've ever heard of a Cannondale bicycle?

    I have nothing against Klein but I'm sure if I researched I could find several things to go to the Klein forum and bash the bikes.

    Think about what you have stated on this thread.

    Scalpel old Specialized FSR design - Get real not even close to the EPO which cannondale has been researching since the early 90's with thier other FS experimental designs.

    Prophet Yeti As-R copy - what about the old killer v so did Yeti copy that first?

    Raven total disaster - I'll agree for the most part even though these bikes are still selling for over $1000 here in the states

    Optimo Still heavier than most - ? most (examples)

    Lefty ELO bad design - What is bad about it I've never heard one bad comment on the ELO?

    SI Hollogram Needless - hmmm wonder why Shimano copied it then?

    Carbon Chainstays Disaster waiting to happen - What disaster explain?

    More Callbacks than most - where's your data really.
    I'm interested where you got all your data obviously not by ride time in the saddle of each of these bikes since you can't afford one.
    I myself have 5 currently and have owned many more. I made the change to Cannondale in 2000 -2001 and have not regreted it for one minute. The designs are solid and one of the reasons I made the change.

    Why do a company that nearly went under sell their bikes way over priced. Dosnt make sense.
    Cannondale Europe was never even a part of the bankruptcy for the US division which by the way are two seperate inities.
    The US bicycle division was supporting the Moto division but could not continue any longer, just shows how well Cannondale bicycle sales are in the US.
    The key is supply and demand obviously if they were not selling at those high prices Cannondale would have to lower their price or quit selling in europe. Don't let the shops fool you much of the pricing is delegated by the shops.

    Why is Klein owned by Trek?

    As for calling yourself a Cannondale fan you should really think that one over, for you to be a fan you have to like something about the Company or Bikes.

    With freinds like you who needs enimies?

    By the way my best friend has a '04 Klein Attitude xx and its a great american made bike!
    Last edited by jekyllman; 09-03-2004 at 02:22 PM.

  17. #17
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    Jekyllman,

    Kleinattitude is a retarded troll, don't waste your time on him. Just go over to the trek board to see the crap he pulls.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  18. #18
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    Couldn't have said it better!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    Jekyllman,

    Kleinattitude is a retarded troll, don't waste your time on him. Just go over to the trek board to see the crap he pulls.
    CDMC,
    Your statement was confirmed by my freind who posts a lot on the Trek - Klein forum seems Mr. Klein(BAD)Attitude has quite a reputation, sorry I lost my cool.

    I think this is a great forum as are many other forums when we can stay away from the brand bashing and concentrate on the exchange of information we come here for.

    What was it Freud said about penis size?

  19. #19
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    Speaking of carbon chainstays... when I was looking at the Scalpel, I was wondering this...

    Has anyone needed to replace the bushings in there?
    Any failures due to the chainstay/bushing flexing?

    Also, I noticed that the chain gets *REALLY* close to rubbing the chainstay when the bike is using the 11t gear on the cassette... does it rub a lot? Looks like it would grind it away over time...


    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    Jekyllman,

    Kleinattitude is a retarded troll, don't waste your time on him. Just go over to the trek board to see the crap he pulls.

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    ah so this is where the kleinmeister has been

    i thought mr klein was avoiding the trek bontrager klein board

    didnt know he had taken up residence in the cannondale camp

    can we have him back

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    CDMC is a joke. He needs to buy some real bikes.

    Leave the real talk to the real men and go chat your trek stuff punk.



    jekyllman do some research. It obvious you are not a well informed Cannodale man.

    Carbon Elo had terrible problems with the lockout motor.
    Raven is pants
    Si Hollogram Gimic, please show me a Shimano Copy
    Optimo mtb frame light? Giant Team Carbon
    Chainstays well if that isnt a problem what is.
    Why do Cannodale have bad frame reps. Crack N Fail

    Owe and please try and find some bad faults on Real Kleins. Or even the Trek ones and thats giving Trek some credit.

    Cannodale have a poor quality to price ratio. Overpriced and living in the past.

    Most bikes have come down in price and are better equipped than previous years. Cannondale go up every year and still cant produce better than the rest.

    I like Cannondale and would like one. But justifying their price is as hard as trying to convince a blind man to buy glasses.

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    Si Hollogram Gimic, please show me a Shimano Copy

    that should read shimano show me a cannondale copy

  23. #23
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    Upset Not a Clue?

    jekyllman do some research. It obvious you are not a well informed Cannodale man.

    I've done research. where's yours? You're the one making all the claims where are the facts?

    Carbon Elo had terrible problems with the lockout motor. - Says who? Show some data!

    Raven is pants - ????? Retarded Troll!!!

    Si Hollogram Gimic, please show me a Shimano Copy - uh OK, Hollow Tech move the bearings to the outside hollow crank arms hollow BB.

    Optimo mtb frame light? Giant Team Carbon - So we're comparing optimo aluminum to carbon fiber? You are an Idiot!

    Chainstays well if that isnt a problem what is. - What is? Above your comparing an entire carbon fiber frame to an optimo aluminum frame now you want to say carbon fiber is a problem? Any problems in the first chain stays have been addressed by Cannondale. Where are the facts? What is the problem?

    Why do Cannodale have bad frame reps. Crack N Fail - How many Cannondale frames fail vs. other brands you got some comparisons or are you just talking out your a$$ again.

    Here is a set of factual test results, comparisons of MTB frames from EFBe (stands for Engineering For Bikes) http://www.efbe.de/ehard.htm

    Here is another for road frames - http://www.efbe.de/erenn.htm

    Don't look for Klein, remember if it didn't pass the minimum fatigue test it won't be on the results as certified.

    Hey KBA look at that it's Trek on the list, go figure. And hey there is Cannondale way at the top imagine that!

    Owe and please try and find some bad faults on Real Kleins. Or even the Trek ones and thats giving Trek some credit.
    OK, Here are some facts dealing with frame fatigue from the EFBe - http://damonrinard.com/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm

    Facts! where are your facts? Not talk facts!

    Step up and be a Man!

    Sorry Mikedesign but you can't have him back yet, we're not through abusing his little punk a$$!
    Last edited by jekyllman; 09-04-2004 at 12:00 AM.

  24. #24
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    Smile Epo

    Quote Originally Posted by funboarder1971
    Speaking of carbon chainstays... when I was looking at the Scalpel, I was wondering this...

    Has anyone needed to replace the bushings in there?
    Any failures due to the chainstay/bushing flexing?

    Also, I noticed that the chain gets *REALLY* close to rubbing the chainstay when the bike is using the 11t gear on the cassette... does it rub a lot? Looks like it would grind it away over time...
    Check out this thread on this exact subject.

    Scalpel durability & reliability

    I currently own two Scalpels '02 & '03 and previously had two others both '02 with no problems with any part of the rear suspension.
    The chainstays are designed to flex at the EPO (Engineered Point Orientation near the middle or the flat part of the chainstay) not at the connections. Truely a Cannondale innovation (should get some argument outta that one from you know who)

    Once your weight is on the bike the preload of the stays is removed or loaded and the chain is actually moves further away form the stay, another part of the suspension engineering and innovation.

    Now's my chance for a shameless plug-a-pict of my two Scalpels. The '03 Team SOBE is mine the Black '02 is my son's.

    A Prime example of Cannondale's Innovations.
    Note: the Lefty front forks (the SOBE now has a Carbon Fiber DLR Lefty).
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    © 1997 Engineering for Bikes (EFBe), Bochum

    Now show me some real data.


    Punk

  26. #26
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    I said something mean and now I take it back. Internet fora (plural of forum?) bring out the worst, no?
    Last edited by GrantB; 09-04-2004 at 06:12 AM.

  27. #27
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    I replaced my DU bushing 3 times. First time because the monkeys at the factory put the rear-end together crooked, second time was wear, and third time I just did it cause I switched out that old crap linkage for the newer frog link and CFRP seat stays, which both came with new bushings. Provided you're not over-weight and don't ride in the mud too often the bushing and needle bearings are quite durable. Make sure you keep things tight, brush dirt away after a ride, and don't lube the bushings.

    On my right chainstay I have a Cannondale MTB stay protector. The stay has its own protector so you can do without it but I don't like the chain slapping sound.


    Quote Originally Posted by funboarder1971
    Speaking of carbon chainstays... when I was looking at the Scalpel, I was wondering this...

    Has anyone needed to replace the bushings in there?
    Any failures due to the chainstay/bushing flexing?

    Also, I noticed that the chain gets *REALLY* close to rubbing the chainstay when the bike is using the 11t gear on the cassette... does it rub a lot? Looks like it would grind it away over time...
    Last edited by divve; 09-04-2004 at 01:56 PM.

  28. #28
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    Check this baby out.

    In the UK this is ?£1000 less than a Team Scalpel.

    Or 1,775.71 USD United States Dollars

    Now tell me Cannondale arnt living in cloud cookoo land.

    This bike is even better than the Prophet 4-Cross and god know how much that is priced here in the UK.

    Just look what this bike comes with as standard.


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    How did you get to be so bitter?

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Check this baby out.

    In the UK this is ?£1000 less than a Team Scalpel.

    Or 1,775.71 USD United States Dollars

    Now tell me Cannondale arnt living in cloud cookoo land.

    This bike is even better than the Prophet 4-Cross and god know how much that is priced here in the UK.

    Just look what this bike comes with as standard.

    You bash the crap out of Cannondale at the drop of a hat, but your photo gallery shows a franken-bike of a Scalpel? Get lost, troll.
    gfy

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    Where lol. Thats not my bike. It was one I uploaded to show as an example.

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    You should use better examples cause the Yeti looks like crap.

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    Shhhh....

    Maybe if we ignore him he'll go away.

    That's what they do at the Trek-Klien-Fisher-bontrager camp...
    "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."
    Groucho Marx.

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    Shhhh....

    Keep your "voices" down. Shhh...
    gfy

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    Good info!

    Quote Originally Posted by divve
    I replaced my DU bushing 3 times. First time because the monkeys at the factory put the rear-end together crooked, second time was wear, and third time I just did it cause I switched out that old crap linkage for the newer frog link and CFRP seat stays, which both came with new bushings. Provided you're not over-weight and don't ride in the mud too often the bushing and needle bearings are quite durable. Make sure you keep things tight, brush dirt away after a ride, and don't lube the bushings.

    On my right chainstay I have a Cannondale MTB stay protector. The stay has its own protector so you can do without it but I don't like the chain slapping sound.
    Thanks Diive!

    I'll have to remember that my sons bike still has the '02 alum. seat stays and crap linkage...next upgrade...
    "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."
    Groucho Marx.

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    Ha Dive you are funny.

    I would like to see how many people think that Yeti is crap. And how many would take it over a 2004 or even 2005

    Scalpel 3000 or even Team Scalpel for that matter.

    Look at what u are saying dum dum.

    Yeti full susp XRAM/XTR, FOX, MAVIC X-MAX Sl,s, Egg Beaters all for £300 cheaper than a UK Scalpel 3000.

    That (With the sickest paint job the industry has even seen.)



    Vs this



    Now as one of your American tennis players said "You cannot be serious"

    Surely you are not that biast.

    Cannodale have been taking from other industry designs and just re-vamping them. Theres no real innovation to that. Owe and then they seriously overprice the bike and pray that a couple of Dives come in the local bike shop and fall for it.

    Sure laugh at me. But I bet they have a better laugh at you.

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    i like the yeti but i love cannondale's lefty. too bad cannondale don't have a 1-1/4 head tube for the lefty or too bad yeti don't make a 1.5 head tube frame. i'm currnetly saving up my money to get the scalpel 2000 or the Prophet 2000(most likely this one). i been dreaming owning a bike with lefty a couple years already. after i test ride the scalpel, i'm convince that lefty is a must for me. does anyone know how much the new scalpel 2000 and Prophet 2000 are retailing for.

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    Ok the Lefty is nice.

    But how can you build your whole decison around a fork.

    True I would like a bike with a lefty. But I still couldnt buy a bike that looked like some dejected Art student had been let loose on it.

    You are right. As soon as the lefty can be sold seperate and othe bike manufactures accomodate for them. Then Cannodale will def have to buck their ideas up.

    But please dont buy a bike on fork choice alone.

    There are so many other exellent bikes out there.

    I liked the 04 F4000sl and thought it was amazing. Sadly I have missed out on purchasing one. Maybe Cannodale would make it better in 2005 I thought. Hell was I wrong. Its the kind of bike you hate and then like another day. I will not splash out £3700 for a 05 F4000sl

    Lefty is not everything its about 5-10% of the bike.
    Only bike I like this year of Cannodales is the Prophet 2000 and Prophet 4 cross.

    But this has to be admired. Cannodale take notice.
    This you could look at everyday and think wow. And is £300 cheaper than a F4000sl and Scalpel 3000
    Last edited by KleinAttitude; 09-05-2004 at 09:37 AM.

  38. #38
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    HaHaha....

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Ha Dive you are funny.

    I would like to see how many people think that Yeti is crap. And how many would take it over a 2004 or even 2005

    Scalpel 3000 or even Team Scalpel for that matter.

    Look at what u are saying dum dum.

    Yeti full susp XRAM/XTR, FOX, MAVIC X-MAX Sl,s, Egg Beaters all for £300 cheaper than a UK Scalpel 3000.

    That (With the sickest paint job the industry has even seen.)



    Vs this



    Now as one of your American tennis players said "You cannot be serious"

    Surely you are not that biast.

    Cannodale have been taking from other industry designs and just re-vamping them. Theres no real innovation to that. Owe and then they seriously overprice the bike and pray that a couple of Dives come in the local bike shop and fall for it.

    Sure laugh at me. But I bet they have a better laugh at you.
    No actually we're still laughing at you!

    Diive is only showing you how rediculously opinionated you are being! (Thanks Diive)

    Bias who you calling bias!

    Your incessant bashing of Cannondale and other bikes is rather tiring.

    If you can't afford one don't buy one!

    Those of us that can afford one will continue to buy them because they a Hand made in USA and the quality, design, customer support is second to non in our opinion.
    The fact that they are reasonably priced or cheaper than other bikes here is the USA of the same quality makes them one of the number one manufactures in new bike sales and used bike sales just look at eBay.

    The Yeti is a very nice bike if that's what you want.

    Post a pict of your bike if you actually have one?
    "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."
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  39. #39
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    Well European Cannondale prices are obsured.

    They just don’t tally. Or bare any resemblance to what is currently on the market.

    When you can buy most top of the range bikes with better specs for less than most Cannondales here. Don’t you think that is wrong???

    For all my bashing of Trek atleast they offer some dam good affordable bikes to the masses. And that dosnt equate to a sole US Market.

    If Kona,Yeti,Specialized made a Optimo with XTR/SRAM, FOX, CrossMax Sl,s and priced it at £3400

    Cannodale would produce a Optimo XT/XTR, Lefty, Mavic XM819 rims and price it at £3690

    Thats how stupid the structure is. For one why do they run European models????Most companies can make a bike to suit all with ease.

    Cannondale have alot of price fixing going on which needs to be looked into. The same as car manufacturers have had. They are all trying to rip off the EU with inflated prices.

    Yes for all my bashing of Trek, they have no silly european specs. And make their bikes as affordable as possible. The same goes to Specialized, Giant,Marin etc.

    And to be honest I have yet to see a Cannondale apart from a few that even match some of the lesser bikes.

  40. #40
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    I second the motion to completely ignore KLEINATTITUDE for the bad quality of his posts and useless time of quality internet forum browsing.

    @FUNBOARDER1971: I know that TREK puts some discs brakes on some of their bike. It's just that now, if you look at other lines of bikes like Kona, Giant and Specialized, you're getting discs for about the same price as you would pay a trek wih v-brakes... But i know TREK still makes good products... And it's also about time they put 100mm forks on their bikes!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    CDMC is a joke. He needs to buy some real bikes.

    Leave the real talk to the real men and go chat your trek stuff punk.
    I guess you didn't learn the first time, I don't own any real bikes. Tell which of these pieces of junk should I ride tommorrow?

    Go away you stupid troll, you still don't get it, your are nothing but an inbred moron.
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    Riding slowly since 1977.

  42. #42
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    Good job! Cool bikes!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    I guess you didn't learn the first time, I don't own any real bikes. Tell which of these pieces of junk should I ride tommorrow?

    Go away you stupid troll, you still don't get it, your are nothing but an inbred moron.

    Hey can I ride the Turner? I'm to old for the hardtail.
    "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."
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  43. #43
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    I would take the Turner frame off you. Thats all.


    And then I would turn it into a real bike

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    And then I would turn it into a real bike
    How, by Christining it like you did your precious Klein, pulling out the seatpost, putting some vasoline in it, sticking your member down there and riding like mad?!!! Hey, you should go hang out with Syd Barrett, got to keep the loonies on the path.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jekyllman
    Hey can I ride the Turner? I'm to old for the hardtail.
    If your ever out this way, give me a holler, more than welcome to. The hardtail rides so nice it is unreal. I thought I was done with hardtails till I rode it, it is like having a softtail, it eats up vibrations and chatter so well. Titus really hit it on the head with that frame.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  46. #46
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    Calm down mr TITASs.

    I,m sure the titas is a nice bike really.

    BTW my Klein is a Large and uses oversized tubing. Fits me just right.

    Made for men. Not weannies.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    BTW my Klein is a Large and uses oversized tubing. Fits me just right.

    Made for men. Not weannies.
    I guess where you come from a 31.6 mm unit is a man. Where I come from, it's called a joke.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  48. #48
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    Yeti ASR is UGLY

    Quote Originally Posted by BigJay
    I second the motion to completely ignore KLEINATTITUDE for the bad quality of his posts and useless time of quality internet forum browsing.

    @FUNBOARDER1971: I know that TREK puts some discs brakes on some of their bike. It's just that now, if you look at other lines of bikes like Kona, Giant and Specialized, you're getting discs for about the same price as you would pay a trek wih v-brakes... But i know TREK still makes good products... And it's also about time they put 100mm forks on their bikes!
    I just saw the picture of the Yeti ASR on this Site and I must say it is the ugliest bike that I have seen in a long time. Nasty looking. Does this bike have the same rear travel as the Prophet.

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    Ha Ronny you clown. I would hate to see your taste in things.

    Or maybe below is what you call an original dream machine.

    The Yeti 575/AS-R design has been out for some time.

    Its a tried and tested proven model. Made by a Hardcore American MTB manufacturer.

    Then some one came along and copied their design and ponsed it up abit.

    See


  50. #50
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    What copy job?

    If you want to talk copies, that is a Mantis Pro Floater rear end mated to a Killer V front end. (With a Lefty on it, for good meaure.)
    gfy

  51. #51
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    I dont know what it is. But is about as original as shite.

    Like sticking a Lexus backend on a pickup. And calling it a new model.

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    New question here. lefty upgrade

    does anyone know if an internal upgrade will be available from reg dlr to the new lefty speed
    logie

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    I do not think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by logie
    does anyone know if an internal upgrade will be available from reg dlr to the new lefty speed
    logie
    However, you can do a fork trade up to that model if you like.
    gfy

  54. #54
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    Klein Attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Ha Ronny you clown. I would hate to see your taste in things.

    Or maybe below is what you call an original dream machine.

    The Yeti 575/AS-R design has been out for some time.

    Its a tried and tested proven model. Made by a Hardcore American MTB manufacturer.

    Then some one came along and copied their design and ponsed it up abit.

    See

    So I am a clown because I think the Yeti is ugly. You need to grow up my friend. Just because I said it is ugly I didnt say it wasnt a good bike. Yes the bike is ugly and the C'dale prophet is much sleeker and nicer to look at. The Yeti looks like the frame has been chopped in half or something. Who cares if Cannondale copied the design? It is a nice bike. The Prophet has 6" of travel and I was wondering how much travel the Yeti has?

  55. #55
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    And who the hell needs 6" of travel. ??

    The Yeti has 3.7" of travel. Its also a very light bike. Not only did Cannodale bastardise their design. But they made it fatter and uglier. And slapped some of the sickest paint jobs on them.

    Maybe they know what their clientele likes lol. Typical Prophet ride Marilon Manson. Freaky bike, Freaky man.

  56. #56
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    Who needs 6" of travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    And who the hell needs 6" of travel. ??

    The Yeti has 3.7" of travel. Its also a very light bike. Not only did Cannodale bastardise their design. But they made it fatter and uglier. And slapped some of the sickest paint jobs on them.

    Maybe they know what their clientele likes lol. Typical Prophet ride Marilon Manson. Freaky bike, Freaky man.
    Who needs 6" of travel? If you are riding very rooty and rocky technical terrain 6" of travel comes in very handy. With 6" of travel you can pick harder lines and goe faster. If you weigh 190lbs or more 6" makes the ride a lot more comfortable. Heavier riders sink through a bikes travel faster than light weight lycra xc types. If you want to do some drops or light freeride I dont think 3" of travel is going to cut it. Who needs 6" of travel? People who want the most out of their bike. Versatility is the key. The Prophet is an extremely light bike and I still think it looks better than the Yeti. The Yeti only has half the travel so it is hard to compare the two.

  57. #57
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    Isn't a Yeti some kind of ugly Chinese Frankenstein monster?

  58. #58
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    Himalayan to be precise.

    All AS-Rs are handbiult in Colorado. Yeti roots on the World Cup scene speak for themself. Cannondale are merely copying the DH masters.

    When you open a Cannodale brocure and they talk about innovation have a good chuckle.

    Lefty made by Manitou
    Scalpel FSR copy
    Prophet Yeti 575 rippoff


    The Raven says it all. Cannondale came to the end of ideas and would never venture into the unknown again. Just like a Russian plane maufacturer. They take from someone else and bring out a copy with some minor alterations.

    They call it the Arc we will call it the Arcondale. And tell some gullable rider that it is a revolutionary design.

  59. #59
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    Cannondale Delta V....

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Ha Ronny you clown. I would hate to see your taste in things.

    Or maybe below is what you call an original dream machine.

    The Yeti 575/AS-R design has been out for some time.

    Its a tried and tested proven model. Made by a Hardcore American MTB manufacturer.

    Then some one came along and copied their design and ponsed it up abit.

    See

    KleinAttitude Do you really believe all the idiotic statments you make?

    You know squat about bikes!

    You have no sense of logic you just post to see yourself post.

    One thing for sure your famous!

    If being the #1 Retarded Troll is what you Wanted You Got It!!!!

    The following Picture is a 1992 Cannondale Delta V one of the first FS mountian bikes.

    Notice any similarities?

    Cannondale has been working on this frame idea since before 1990 tweaking it a little here and there - Delta V, Killer V, Gemini and now the Prophet.
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  60. #60
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    Personally I could care less about who's innovative. When I'm buying a bike all I care about is who makes something I want and how good is it. In my opinion the Scalpel currently is still one of the best suspension XC racing bike available.

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    Thats fine Dive it your opnion.

    But in fact their is better out there at realistic prices and non sicko paintjobs.

    Jeckylman you ride non innovative machines. Next time you get on your bike dream of being on a real Yeti not a copy.

  62. #62
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    Blah...blah...blah....

    Sounds like a skipping record...

    I really wanted to hear how the Prophet is still a Yeti rip off and not of a Cannondale design refinement.

    But that being intelligent debate is way out of your league.

    Instead it's:

    Blah...blah...My name is KleinAttitude...blah...blah...I'm a post poser...blah...blah...say things without any substance or fact...blah...blah...post just to post...blah...blah...blah...Cannondale sucks because I can't afford one...whaa...blah...whaa...I pretend I have a Klein Attitude all I really have is a bad attitude!!!!
    Last edited by jekyllman; 09-08-2004 at 08:44 AM.
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    Ha how funny. Its not a case I cant afford one.

    Its a case of when I look at the sickos. I think how could I afford to spend out on one.

    They are about as innovative as a cr+p

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Ha how funny. Its not a case I cant afford one.

    Its a case of when I look at the sickos. I think how could I afford to spend out on one.

    They are about as innovative as a cr+p
    Then why are you spending your time here with us losers? You like Yetis? Go make an ass of yourself in the Yeti forum.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  65. #65
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    Yes you are right Dan.

    Cannondale has nothing that could arouse a stiff this year in their range. The innovators so they think look more like the imitators.

  66. #66
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    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=41&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=cannondale.ASN M.&OS=an/(cannondale)&RS=AN/cannondale

  67. #67
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    Blah...blah...blah...

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Yes you are right Dan.

    Cannondale has nothing that could arouse a stiff this year in their range. The innovators so they think look more like the imitators.
    He's talking about you...

    Get off the Crack...You Moron!
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    I don't know why you guys are reacting to Klein Attitude's trolling. Klein means Small in dutch and thats exactly what that poster is, a small man with a big mouth. Knows nothing of Cannondaleor Yeti's history it seems.
    It's also escaped his Klein brain that almost every bike company had copied another bikes design.
    theres only so many ways to make a bike frame. Afterall they have to carry a rider via two wheels and some suspension inbetween.

    Cannondale has been innovative and probably more so than most companies.
    - First Aluminium MTB, yes before Klein and yeti did not exist....
    - They did not invent the Headshok concept but rather perfected it.
    Now They're realised that their core competancy is frame design aso they're sticking to that and buying in rapidly evolving damping technology from Magura, Fox and Manitou. Nothing wrong there, smart actually because it means less aprts for them to carry and more commonality on core items with the rest of industry.

    First one legged fork
    first 1.5 steerer tube, long before the std actually exhisted since F-series hardtails have always been 1.5 compatible.

    The Hollow gram technology BB and crank interface is the way to go and the whole of industry acknowledges this. Because Mr Small does not does not mean that it won';t. he's a fool.


    So what if the prophet looks like an Old Delta V mated to a marin swingarm. marin don;t own the swingarm concept. In fact marin. licensed that frame design from CANNONDALE is it's actually a Cannondale owned intellectual property.

    Oh and the Scalpel a copy of an Old FSR???!!

    Once again there are only so many ways to meet a set of criteria. The devil as they say, is in the details

    Cannondale invented 2x9 drivetrains for MTBs which I still prefer.

  69. #69
    R.I.P. DogFriend
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    Give credit where credit is due...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad
    Cannondale has been innovative and probably more so than most companies.
    - First Aluminium MTB, yes before Klein and yeti did not exist....
    I believe that credit should be given where it is due.

    In keeping with that sentiment, Cannondale did not produce any bicycles until they put out a road bike in 1983 and then their first mountain bike in 1984.

    Gary Klein's patent for an aluminum frame bicycle (one that uses large diameter aluminum tubing no less) was filed in November 1977.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=18&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=(klein.INZZ.+A ND+bicycle.TTL.)&OS=in/(klein)+and+ttl/(bicycle)&RS=(IN/klein+AND+TTL/bicycle)

    Klein holds 18 patents related to bicycles which is respectable at a minimum. There is no doubt in my mind that Gary Klein has been a significant player (although just how significant has been a bone of contention for some time) in the development of the modern mountain bike and it's unfortunate that a bitter small minded troll might be able to turn our sentiments against someone that has contributed as much as he has.

    If you look at a Klein frame, there is no doubt that they are artfully constructed and some of their paint schemes are very nice IMO. But apparently over the years, for whatever reason ('right', 'wrong' or otherwise ), Klein have failed to appeal to the masses in the same numbers that Cannondale have.

    BFD, get over it.

    Pepsi vs. Coke, Ford vs. Chevy, Honda vs. Yamaha, Fender vs. Gibson, Metallica vs. Led Zeppelin, Godzilla vs. King Kong

    Klein vs. Cannondale doesn't even register a blip and aren't necessarily even rivals in the traditional sense. They are just two of many bicycle companies trying to succeed. This rivalry is something that an internet troll fantasizes about (bitter because he feels that a bike he desires is priced out of his range).

    Klein makes nice bikes. I don't have to disparage them to feel good about owning Cannondales. If you feed the troll, at least make sure you're having fun doing so. It's all good. Ride what you like and have fun doing it.

    That being said, Cannondale holds a paltry 69 U.S. patents.

  70. #70
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    Great Info!!!!

    Thanks jeffj!

    Now that's what I'm talking about, good factual information about MTB's, that's what these forums are for.

    I think I read somewhere that Klien actually sued Cannondale for their use of certian over sized tubes in their frames in the early 80's and won.

    Cannondale did not make the first aluminum MTB frames but they're credited for putting aluminum MTB's in the mainstream and their marketing of those frames at that time often confuses people to believe they did.

    Cannondale has always been successful at marketing their bicycles! Now their Moto's that is another story.

    Like I said before ask someone if they've ever heard of Cannondale?

    Great post jeffj!!!
    "I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."
    Groucho Marx.

  71. #71
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    I dont care much who invented what and when. Right now, I prefer Cannondale bikes than any other brand for different reasons like the Lefty's performance, bike geometry, frame stiffness, etc... So, I'm getting another one and that doesn't mean Yeti, Trek, Specialized or any other brand are no good, worse or better than Cannondale. To each his own.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  72. #72
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    Nice comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    I dont care much who invented what and when. Right now, I prefer Cannondale bikes than any other brand for different reasons like the Lefty's performance, bike geometry, frame stiffness, etc... So, I'm getting another one and that doesn't mean Yeti, Trek, Specialized or any other brand are no good, worse or better than Cannondale. To each his own.
    Interesting comments from both sides. I wish people who want to bash a product would just deal with their personal agenda in another way. It is nice to read about different opinions and preferences without flaming each other. I agree with Dan Gerous because I dont care who makes the bike as long as I like it. Personally, I feel that all of the bike brands mentioned make a good bike. I have never owned a Cannondale but I have been a fan of the Jekyll and Gemini for a long time. The Prophet has me very interested. I recently sold my Ellsworth Joker and I am thinking about getting a Cannondale. There is some good deals to be had right now on Jekylls and the Gemini.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by funboarder1971
    I believe there was a disc model of the Fuel 90 available in 2002 as well.
    2001 fuel 90's were available w/discs.....

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by jekyllman
    I think I read somewhere that Klien actually sued Cannondale for their use of certian over sized tubes in their frames in the early 80's and won.
    Ha Nice one Gary.

    Imagine if everyone else done that who they have ripped off. I could just imagine what they would be bringing out. Jeez every more freaky paintwork and dull designs.

    KLEIN mtb masters in history.

  75. #75
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    Hate to keep busting on Bradís post, but wasnít it Tom Ritchey that first came out with the 2x9 cranks for mountain bikes?

  76. #76
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    Why is it so obvious that the frame still says Cannondale on it? LoL

    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Ha Ronny you clown. I would hate to see your taste in things.

    Or maybe below is what you call an original dream machine.

    The Yeti 575/AS-R design has been out for some time.

    Its a tried and tested proven model. Made by a Hardcore American MTB manufacturer.

    Then some one came along and copied their design and ponsed it up abit.

    See


  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffj
    Hate to keep busting on Brad?s post, but wasn?t it Tom Ritchey that first came out with the 2x9 cranks for mountain bikes?

    Heck Not sure now! First 2x9's I saw on a bike where fitted to a C'dale...

    Could be though but did he actually make 2x9 specific cranks or just through his small ring away?

  78. #78
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    Ritchey released the 2x9 system even before any company made mountain specific 9-speed cassettes. And the team Ritchey had been using it a while before it was released to the public. They had a ninth cog that you placed between the 8-speed cassette and the spokes, it came with special 9 speed GripShifts and a 29 tooth chainring and spacers to have a correct chainline. Cannondale was the only big company I know who had bikes with a 2x9 setup tough. And my F1000 came with a 9-speed road cassette before Shimano released their first 9-speed groups.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  79. #79
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    Come on people! Do you people have nothing better to do than bash each others bikes!?! Your just like little kids, "My bike is better than your bike." Oh get over it people, the point of this forum is not to criticize each others rides. NOW GET OUT THE DOOR AND RIDE! (I already went for mine, so I have an excuse to be on the computer )

    RIDE ON!

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