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  1. #1
    siv
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    I need honest help, might not like Cannondale.

    I bought a Prophet 1000 of ebay, 2005, brown. Going from my F300 I thought it was the shizat. At this point( three years total experience ) I think I hate this bike, or I REALLY SUCK AT MOUNTAIN BIKING!!!. I constantly feel liike Im going over the handlebars. Ive increased the bar rise, stem length and got a Titec bent to get a longer seat tube and everthing still feels wierd. Ive noticed that in some mountain Bike mags that the testers have felt the same way. Also, is it true that the head tube is the same lenght on the small as the XL? I think that it may be time to go with a different manufacture just because of the fit. Im assuming that you guys have good days and bad days on your bikes. Is this the case for me or do I just not agree with Cannondale geometry? Im 6" 1', 200 lbs with a 32 inch inseam, longer arms. Running a 110 x 20 x 31.8 stem. Can anyone help? I want a bike that really fits me no matter who makes it, I really dig this sport.

  2. #2
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    Siv,I have the same bike with the same stem and seat post set up that you have as far as going over the bars I have gone over the handle bars 4 times now because of not being a skilled rider.I am 5' 11" and at first I to felt the same way but with more seat time and messing around with the front rebound so that it is 4-5 clicks from closed I have stopped compressing the fork to the point that it would pitch me right over the bars when going through rock gardens and logs on the trail.Maybe I also do not fit the bike like we should I just learned to adjust my body position for different sections of trail and I think I am much better rider from that.I hope this helps you sounds like you just need more seat time to get your body use to the bike

  3. #3
    siv
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    I have been messing around with the rebound as well. I think Im gonna try a 80 or 90mm stem with the 20deg rise yet and maybe a 2 inch rise bar yet. You just have to put the seat up so high to get good leg extension so it makes me feel way over the bars.

  4. #4
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Have you had the bike set up for you, saddle wise? You may need a layback post, depending on your femur length. Many shops will spend hours setting up roadies, and pay no attention to saddle height and set back, for a mountain biker. Food for thought.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  5. #5
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    yep, i would go into a shop, and if they dont help. post a picture. i love the prophet, its one of my favorites. and whjat do you mean by "going over the handlebars" like when you brake? also, what size is your bike? you should prob be on a Large.

  6. #6
    siv
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    I didnt buy the bike at a shop so I dont think I'll get much help. Besides, they put me on a medium hardtail once before. I dont know how to put a picture in here without having a website but I already have a layback seatpost, its the Titec Bent one. Im also currently running in the FR position as well.

  7. #7
    shut up and RIDE!
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    It shouldn't matter if you bought it from your LBS or not. They are there to help you, plus if you have to buy something to make changes, you're at the right place... What size frame are you riding? I'm riding a Large and I'm a little taller than you, and it handles like a dream.
    '11 Surly Pugsley
    '07 Prophet 3
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  8. #8
    siv
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    Its a large, gonna post a picture after work. I said earlier that maybe I just suck at this sport yet. Im going back to shorter stem to see if that helps any. Its a 5deg rise stem as opposed to the 20 I have now though. The main problem is putting the seat up high so I get pedaling efficiency but then downhills are scary. I ride with a group of about 13 people on Sundays and no one ever changes their seat position to descend. Riding in central PA we have a wide array of trails. Mostly tight singletrack, rocky and rooty. Descents with washed out loose rock make you a little nervous as well. Im betting alot of it is confidence too. I guess I should get a shop to fit me properly. Dont always think the guys that work there know any more than I do though.

  9. #9
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by siv
    I already have a layback seatpost, its the Titec Bent one. Im also currently running in the FR position as well.
    Okay, what you need to do, is get a plumb bob, and a friend. A piece of string with a washer at one end is fine Get on the bike, sitting in a position that feel nuetral to you. Have a friend drop the line from the front of your kneecap, past the pedal. It should more or less, line up withthe pedal axle. Move the seat fore and aft, till it does. This will put you in a good position over the pedals to deliver power, and also keep your knees health and happy. As for saddle hieght, just to make it easy, measure your old HT's hieght, and match that. This will remove the "my other bike feel better" arguement from the equation. The Prophet is a taller bike, but with all other things considered it should feel nuetral. If you feel "flippy" when descending, you may have too soft a spring in the fork too. As for dropping the seat, if you didn't before, you shouldn't need to now, again, check the fork spring rate.... Have fun!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  10. #10
    siv
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    Do you think going to the shorter stem will help? I think maybe I went over board with a layback seatpost and a 110mm stem at the same time. Been thinking that it may be having a "superman" effect on my body. I will do the plum bob later to see if Im where I need to be. Worst case scenario would be to sell it, maybe someone who would like to scarf up all the 140 Max's, if that person were to exist Craig!

  11. #11
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by siv
    Do you think going to the shorter stem will help? I think maybe I went over board with a layback seatpost and a 110mm stem at the same time. Been thinking that it may be having a "superman" effect on my body. I will do the plum bob later to see if Im where I need to be. Worst case scenario would be to sell it, maybe someone who would like to scarf up all the 140 Max's, if that person were to exist Craig!
    Fit always goes height, setback, then stem selection. Your saddle position is a constant, regardless of the bike, so it needs to be right first, as it creates the proper relationship to the pedal. Your stem getting shorter may help the immediate feeling, but if you are in a bad position relative to the pedals, it will be a bandaid, not a solution. If you have it already, can't hurt to try, but the saddle position would be my first step. How's your spring rate, speaking of Leftys.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  12. #12
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    Wow, interesting. I have a similar build, 6'2" 34 inseam and I love my prophet (L). In fact, there have been about 5 times when I should have gone over the handlebars and I just rode an endo downhill. I actually bent my wheels from doing that once or twice.

    However, the bike before was a Fischer Big Sur and I was always feeling like I was going over the front.

    I hope you figure out your problem.

  13. #13
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    Crazy timing as I went over the bars on my prophet yesterday. I went into a washout and when I hit the bottom, my front wheel just stopped, my lefty compressed and over I went. I rack it up to bad technique on my part but I'm going to add some more preload to my spring. I'm 6'5", 185, FR position and running a red down from a brown spring. I'm happy with the sag and feel of the red spring but there have been a couple times where it really feels like it dives when I hit something hard. I'm stoked on this thread as I've been thinking about tweaking my geometry as well.

  14. #14
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    Siv after reading more of the post I see you live in central PA. I am in Reading PA. maybe we can meet for a ride,And you can check out my bike fit compared to yours.Do you think the front shock is saging to much when you get on causing the front end to dip down without you realizing it,have a friend measure from the center of the screw at the wheel hub up to a point on the stem or handle bar with you on and off the bike and see what the sag is some one here can tell what it should be at,I think they say 20 percent sag is what you should be looking for.

  15. #15
    siv
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    After I cut the grass I'll check out my sag. Craig, I assume sag is spring rate? I never really checked the sag. It seems like it would be hard on a full suspension because of the sag in the rear. I'll be honest, I dont think my lefty even moves when I get on the bike. I wish I knew how many turns of preload an supposed to have. Check back later.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by siv
    Its a large, gonna post a picture after work. I said earlier that maybe I just suck at this sport yet. Im going back to shorter stem to see if that helps any. Its a 5deg rise stem as opposed to the 20 I have now though. The main problem is putting the seat up high so I get pedaling efficiency but then downhills are scary. I ride with a group of about 13 people on Sundays and no one ever changes their seat position to descend. Riding in central PA we have a wide array of trails. Mostly tight singletrack, rocky and rooty. Descents with washed out loose rock make you a little nervous as well. Im betting alot of it is confidence too. I guess I should get a shop to fit me properly. Dont always think the guys that work there know any more than I do though.
    Another thing you should consider is the sag on the rear... a lot of folks just adjust the rear shock where it barely moves to get that Hard Tail feel.... I had the problem like you described, but after I adjusted the rear suspension to be a lot softer with more sag, that "Oh my goosh, I think I'll flip over the bars any minute feeling" completely vanished and my M frame (I'm 6.1') handles like a dream. You just have to fool around with adjusting everything correctly especially because you were so used to riding a Hardtail which has a lower bottom bracket height, lower center of Gravity and an overall more stretched out race oriented seating position.
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  17. #17
    I just wanna go fast...
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    I'm 6'4", 210lbs and have a large prophet. With the stock stem and bars, plus the seat height I had to run to get a good extension on my legs, the bike felt sketchy (this is with the shock in the 67.5* HA setting). Because I ride a lot more downhill than anything else (the prophet was supposed to be my XC bike, but I like it for light dh too), I didn't feel right on it until I got a 50mm rise, 710mm wide bar and a 0* rise, 50mm stem. Bike is lots of fun downhill with the seat dropped low, and still rides well enough uphill that I don't mind climbing on it.

  18. #18
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    Check out the Lefty Owners Suplement from http://www.cannondale.com/tech_cente...ion/lefty.html for detailed instructions on measuring the sag. By their weight / spring chart I am on the line between the brown and black springs but with the brown, I had effectively zero sag and am happy with the red which I am supposed to be too heavy for... Good luck!

  19. #19
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    Sometimes a short stem can keep you from easily getting behind the bars to keep you from going OTB. I had that experience on my Giant Reign. That 90mm stem scared the bejezuz out of me a couple times. Now I'm rockin' a 130mm and loving it.

    Get fit by someone that knows what they are doing. It'll be worth it.

  20. #20
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by siv
    I assume sag is spring rate?
    Well, they're linked, but they are not the same. Rate is the outright stiffness of the spring, sag is what happens when you sit on it. As others have said, 20% is about right for most. You make spring rate decisions based on body weight, then adjust sag once the correct spring is in place. Put a spring rated for a 150 lb guy, under a 200 pounder, and you'll never get proper sag, no matter how many cranks of preload you put on it.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  21. #21
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    i am 5'11'' abt 200 lbs and i ride a Medium Prophet 600 2005 that i got on ebay and i love it, but had size and fit issues as well. My LBS put me on a thomson laid back seatpost and also turned the handlebars forward and the thing is like a dream, i love the bike and have tons of fun, never having gone over the bars, but have done a nice endo or 2 with much more to go. the bike just wants to keep taking more and it sounds to me you just might need more time out there and give the prophet a chance, its an excellent ride and cannondale rocks
    i recently put on a pair of tinker dread treds and love them if anyone wants to chat it up abt the dreds
    happy trails all

  22. #22
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    I bought A 2005 Prophet 1000z used. I'm 6'0 180lbs and got a large. I hated the thing at first., want to throw it off a cliff. But then I got a shorter stem 100mm vs 120mm both 5 degree, shorter handle bar and switch the tires to Maxxis Ignitors 2.1 from Highrollers 2.35 and really setup the fork and shock, now I love that bike. Maybe when the tires wear out I'm going to put some 2.2 tubeless but I'm finding them hard to find. Something good for the trails in Connecticut.

  23. #23
    siv
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    Thanks for all the responses guys. Since putting in a black spring, lower tire pressure and changing to FR position I have mixed reviews. I still go over the bars on occasion if I dont lower my seat on downhills with logs and rocks. I just cant seem to dial in the Lefty to my liking and am always unsure about the Swinger. Untill I demo the new Spec Pitch and Trek Fuel EX I dont have anything else to compare to. I just wouldnt tell anyone the Prophet is plush or smooth.

    P.S. My LBS guy told me I maybe should have gone with an XL frame as my arms are on the long side. In case you dont remember Im 6' 1" and 200, currently running a 40mm bar rise with a 110 x 20 stem.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by siv
    Thanks for all the responses guys. Since putting in a black spring, lower tire pressure and changing to FR position I have mixed reviews. I still go over the bars on occasion if I dont lower my seat on downhills with logs and rocks. I just cant seem to dial in the Lefty to my liking and am always unsure about the Swinger. Untill I demo the new Spec Pitch and Trek Fuel EX I dont have anything else to compare to. I just wouldnt tell anyone the Prophet is plush or smooth.

    P.S. My LBS guy told me I maybe should have gone with an XL frame as my arms are on the long side. In case you dont remember Im 6' 1" and 200, currently running a 40mm bar rise with a 110 x 20 stem.
    It doesnt sound like you tried any of the recommendation of the other riders. Did you check your seat position? And did you measure the sag on the front and back and set it right. The bike is the right size for you you just have to get it dialed in . The advice given to you here is great but you need to do it to get the best results.

  25. #25
    siv
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    Ive tried alot of things that others have suggested. What in particullar are you refering to? My seat height and aft/forward are just where they are suposed to be. I guess Im not a good enough rider to keep the seatpost the same height for all situations. I love riding the bike with the seatpost low for technical stuff it just really cramps my legs, like riding a kids bike. I'll get over it though and be glad I have trails to ride and people here to turn to for help.

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