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  1. #1
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    How to improve Gemini handling??

    I have a Stumpjumper that I love how it handles in tight singletrack. I also like freeriding and have a 2003 Gemini 2000. The only thing is if I take it on the same trails, the handling is horrible compared to the stumpy. My main problem is the front end washes out. I can't carry any sort of speed. What can I do to improve this? Is it because of the slack head angle compared to the stumpy? Or possilbe the fork? Any info is appreciated.
    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by losiracer
    I have a Stumpjumper that I love how it handles in tight singletrack. I also like freeriding and have a 2003 Gemini 2000. The only thing is if I take it on the same trails, the handling is horrible compared to the stumpy. My main problem is the front end washes out. I can't carry any sort of speed. What can I do to improve this? Is it because of the slack head angle compared to the stumpy? Or possilbe the fork? Any info is appreciated.
    Thanks

    Both the slack angle and the fork.
    stumpy = single track heaven
    gemini =freeride big hit heaven...

    Ya cant have yer cake and eat it.

  3. #3
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    Not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by mzungo
    Both the slack angle and the fork.
    stumpy = single track heaven
    gemini =freeride big hit heaven...

    Ya cant have yer cake and eat it.
    With my Gemini, I think I have the best of bolth worlds. 34 LB, 5"/6" travel setup, with an 8" rotor up front.
    Granted, I have a Lefty Max up front, so that changes the way it handles drastically.
    gfy

  4. #4
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    What is your budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by losiracer
    I have a Stumpjumper that I love how it handles in tight singletrack. I also like freeriding and have a 2003 Gemini 2000. The only thing is if I take it on the same trails, the handling is horrible compared to the stumpy. My main problem is the front end washes out. I can't carry any sort of speed. What can I do to improve this? Is it because of the slack head angle compared to the stumpy? Or possilbe the fork? Any info is appreciated.
    Thanks

    Just a swap to a single crown fork will make a HUGE difference. I have a Lefty Max on my Gemini, with lightish parts, that weights in at 33-35 lb, depending on tire choice.

    Think about a Fox TALAS 36, a Sherman Breakout, a Lefty MAX, or what not. Are you trying to turn the Gemini in to a sturdy trailbike? That is what I have.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by losiracer
    I have a Stumpjumper that I love how it handles in tight singletrack. I also like freeriding and have a 2003 Gemini 2000. The only thing is if I take it on the same trails, the handling is horrible compared to the stumpy. My main problem is the front end washes out. I can't carry any sort of speed. What can I do to improve this? Is it because of the slack head angle compared to the stumpy? Or possilbe the fork? Any info is appreciated.
    Thanks
    The Stumpjumer is a XC bike. Your weight distribution would be pretty close to 50/50 if the bike is the right size. That also means exceptional handling from the seated postion.

    The Gemini weight distribution is rear bias in seated postion. The front will washout if you try to ride it like a XC bike. You need to stand which will shift the weight more toward the center. You can get more carving power by standing and shifting more weight to the front.

    Attached is a picture of Cedric Gracia. Look at how bent his elbows are. That means he's really got his weight way far forward.

    http://idriders.com/proflex/files/802C6953.jpg

    Attached is a video of Nathan Rennie riding with no front brakes. Look at how he carves the turns by standing and shoving (shifting weight forward) the fork down.

    http://idriders.com/proflex/files/ChasingRennie.mpg

    Yes you can make your bike behave like a XC by changing parts. It's a lot more fun by changing your riding style. You'll be amazed at how the bike can carve by shifting your weight forward.

  6. #6
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    I do agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by racerzero
    The Stumpjumer is a XC bike. Your weight distribution would be pretty close to 50/50 if the bike is the right size. That also means exceptional handling from the seated postion.

    The Gemini weight distribution is rear bias in seated postion. The front will washout if you try to ride it like a XC bike. You need to stand which will shift the weight more toward the center. You can get more carving power by standing and shifting more weight to the front.

    Attached is a picture of Cedric Gracia. Look at how bent his elbows are. That means he's really got his weight way far forward.

    http://idriders.com/proflex/files/802C6953.jpg

    Attached is a video of Nathan Rennie riding with no front brakes. Look at how he carves the turns by standing and shoving (shifting weight forward) the fork down.

    http://idriders.com/proflex/files/ChasingRennie.mpg

    Yes you can make your bike behave like a XC by changing parts. It's a lot more fun by changing your riding style. You'll be amazed at how the bike can carve by shifting your weight forward.

    Do not get me wrong. Cornering and handling technique is critical.

    However, All the technique in the world is not going to let the op ride say, a 24hr course, and shuttle runs with the same setup. (I am not sure that is what is intended, but I am close based on the toe-clips in the photo. That and wanting to make it handle more like the Stumpy.)
    gfy

  7. #7
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    i agree with the above change your riding style, you wouldnt ride a chopper the way you would ride a dirt bike. mess with the settings on your fork this can make your bike ride like dream or your worst nightmare, you could also try stickier tires maybe maxxis high rollers. a prophet would have been better for your type of riding i think. a bit off topic but thats the nicest paint job cannondale has ever done on a bike, i wish my prophet 1000 came in that scheme...
    Last edited by david8613; 12-30-2005 at 10:28 PM.

  8. #8
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    Is it paint?

    I know that is is DuPont's trademarked camo pattern, called RealTree. I am not sure that it is paint. I think it is like a laminated decal of some type. Similar to the "Woody" color on the F1000 from a couple of years ago.
    gfy

  9. #9
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    I've been useing my Gemini as a trail bike for some time and have noticed exactly what you are describing. In fact, since the leaves fell riding tight singeltrack at speed has gotten quite a bit more hairy. Personally, I run a bit less pressure in my front tire and concentrate on weighting the tires more in turns.

  10. #10
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    It is what it is...

    Quote Originally Posted by losiracer
    I have a Stumpjumper that I love how it handles in tight singletrack. I also like freeriding and have a 2003 Gemini 2000. The only thing is if I take it on the same trails, the handling is horrible compared to the stumpy. My main problem is the front end washes out. I can't carry any sort of speed. What can I do to improve this? Is it because of the slack head angle compared to the stumpy? Or possilbe the fork? Any info is appreciated.
    Thanks
    I also ride a Gemini with a Super T on the same trails that I take my Prophet on.
    The Gemini will never behave the same as the Prophet (in its current state).

    The Super T is a dual crown freeride fork. It craves to be dropped, jumped, rolled...et...
    Don't compare the Stumpjumper as it's intended use is completely different.

    Cherish the plushness of the Super T instead of trying to make it feel like your XC bike.

    Your Gemini is sweet, I would only swap those tires for something in the Super Tacky family, and run a little less pressure. Maybe a little more rebound damping in the Super? It will help it the front end feels "squirrley."

    my $.02

  11. #11
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    gemini own a stumphumper
    I HATE WORK, WORK IS BAD, WORK = NO BIKE, NO BIKE = NO GOOD

  12. #12
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    I've noticed that many riders get an uprise stem+an uprise handlebar = lot of height..

    personnaly, i ride with a riser bar (i prefer the angles and the wider cockpit you get) but also with an easton stem put in the reverse direction, with only a little one or no spacer at all between the headset and the stem. I loose nothing for jumping/gaping but I earn several points in the handling/cornering departement. Even manuals seems easier to control with such a set-up

    You should lower your front height the most you can. Other than that, i guess c-dale/turner/specialized geometry that relies on short chainstays is a little outdated too, not on par with the speed you can reach with the increasing capacities of forks, shocks, tires and brakes you can have nowadays. Such a geometry is easier for manualing or bunny-hoping. Ok, but you need too much body movements to build adherence on both wheels and it is very difficult to get the right amount of body weight, especially on the front end when you ride quick and hard on loose or rocky terrain. Rocky mountain and SC get super long chainstays that helps to keep you centered at full speed and create a lot more constant adherence, especially on the front wheel. I've ridden a nomad, and it was quite a revelation comparing to the many c-dale i owned or the sx-trail I've tried many times: no more front end washing out, a lot more adherence if you resist to the temptation to go behind the saddle in the straights and overweight your front end while cornering. Just stay centered and everything goes right: you build the right amount of pressure on the front tire with just little body movements. Much more comfortable at speed.

    you can also change your spring for something stiffer/or add some preload, or put more low speed compression in the rear to put more force on your front fork.

    look at the dowhill bikes: the forks apart, the stem/bar combo is very low for better cornering.

    try to lower your front end cockpit: reverse your stem for beginning then add spacers to find the sweetspot. It's a low cost mod that can produce impressive results.
    Try also some tuning on your suspensions with lowspeed circuits: firmer rear, softer front.

    I'm sure that just trying these simples things could achieve what you are searching for.
    Last edited by vinny; 01-16-2006 at 07:55 AM.

  13. #13
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    Vinny brought up some good points.

    I totally forgot about one of the BIGGEST advantages of having a 1.5 Headtube. You can run a zero stack headset if you elect to use a 1 1/8 steer tube. This is especially true if you run a dual crown.

    You can lower your crown height and steepen the head angle by using zero stack on the bottom of the headset. You can lower your handle bar height by using the zero stack on the top of the headset. Use both and you can have a steeper angle and more weight in the front because of the lower handlebar.

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