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  1. #1
    `Count Scalpula'
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Hollogram crank help.

    Hi,
    I have just bought a Team Scalpel in a size small. Small comes with Roadie 172.5 length cranks. The shorter crank length is so upsetting to me when trying to go up anything or peddle through soft stuff. It takes way too much effort to turn these cranks over and notice that with all my -130lbs of weight, it is a Mexican standoff on the same climbs that my longer cranked superV easily makes over in a harder gear!

    "What was Cannondale thinking of ?"

    The guy at the bike shop was talking about leg angles but when you are out of the saddle, all that leg angle talk goes out the window anyways!

    I was so excited to get this expensive and lighter bike to race XC this year. But I will race the superV this season instead because of the extra leverage & power that I have with the longer 180m cranks.

    I am in desperate need of 175 mm Hollogram crankarms in any condition so I can be compeditive this season on the Scalpel!

    racerX

  2. #2
    Are you talking to me?
    Reputation: damion's Avatar
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    Dale specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by racerX
    Hi,
    I have just bought a Team Scalpel in a size small. Small comes with Roadie 172.5 length cranks. The shorter crank length is so upsetting to me when trying to go up anything or peddle through soft stuff. It takes way too much effort to turn these cranks over and notice that with all my -130lbs of weight, it is a Mexican standoff on the same climbs that my longer cranked superV easily makes over in a harder gear!

    "What was Cannondale thinking of ?"

    The guy at the bike shop was talking about leg angles but when you are out of the saddle, all that leg angle talk goes out the window anyways!

    I was so excited to get this expensive and lighter bike to race XC this year. But I will race the superV this season instead because of the extra leverage & power that I have with the longer 180m cranks.

    I am in desperate need of 175 mm Hollogram crankarms in any condition so I can be compeditive this season on the Scalpel!

    racerX
    You may as well bite the bullet and order a set in the right length. You will have a tough time finding a used set, seeing as how anyone with those cranks needs them to ride their own bike. If you wish, I will look into the pricing/shipping info.

    You can call me at the shop. 1-907-272-5219 if you do not have a Cannondale dealer near to you.
    gfy

  3. #3
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    Sorry to be so blunt but there's no way 2.5mm longer cranks are going to make such a big difference.

  4. #4
    Stewed Screwed & Tattooed
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    Sometimes performance is in perception. If a racer feels that his bike is better he will perform better. I suggest that he go back to his dealer and ask if he can trade in the arms for longer ones.

    -Ron

  5. #5
    `Count Scalpula'
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! shorted cranks

    I went to the dealer today only to be told that I am short so I need the shorter 172.5 cranks and that the longer (normal length 175m) cranks will take away power and that is the end of that. On a road bike, yes! But I tried to explan that on a MTB that leverage of the 175m cranks will be much easier to turn over than the short cranks.
    I can physically feel the difference of a 2.5m length crank and I know that I will be faster out of the gate, beable to push a higher gear at the same cadence, spend less time having to downshift for everything, have more leverage = torque to make it up and over the climbs, accellerate quicker out of the turns to help win races!
    This 23lbs Team Scalpel would be faster than my 24lbs superV if it had the correct 175m cranks that they install on all the other Scalpel sizes.
    That is the reason why I posted this post. I have a race this weekend so I better get the faster; because of the crank issues, but worse cornering stability, superV ready for battle.

    racerX

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by divve
    Sorry to be so blunt but there's no way 2.5mm longer cranks are going to make such a big difference.
    Interesting test by Velonews where they found that using short cranks (150mm!) allowed more power: http://www.velonews.com/tech/rev/crank.html
    Google will find tons of articles on crank lengths

    For original poster: if you think you are going to loose because of 2.5mm difference in crank length, well then....

  7. #7
    `Count Scalpula'
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    size does matter.

    That was a good article and I read that the short cranks made more power at some conditions like conserving power in a flat portions of a peloton. But then said that they made more power with the 180m cranks. I also train on a Road bike 100-150 miles per week and tried different crank lengths as well. I currantly use 170m cranks onit to help me get prepared for the 172.5 MTB equipted Scalpel and spin at a cadence of 120 rpm and shift quite frenquently using a narrow band rear cassette to keep my cadence constant that is posible on the road but imposible on a MTB race situation that has technical steep climbs that you have to get out of the saddle and utilize bdy weight to turn over the cranks! MTB racing relies on other factors than just a steady cadence on pavement! I rely on pushing a big gear on a MTB race course and maneuver up and around things at a lower cadence than I do when I am on a road bike.
    That article was only tested for a consistant cadence of 90. The little MTB racer went up to 180m cranks and she won. The BMX bikes mostly use 180m cranks as well. I am going to call another Cannondale dealer hopefully getting better luck from somebody that accually races MTB and knows what I am up against.

    racerX

  8. #8
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    Still, 2,5mm difference in crank length does not limit your performance - it's too little difference. Changes on tire pressures have more effect on speed...

    Anyway if you don't beliveve this and it really seems to bothering you so go out and get them longer cranks. It's little investment on something which may improve your lacking confidence more than actual crank lengthening.
    I should mention that I only took part on this topic because I think many people overestimate effect of equipment upgrades - unless something fails it's always about the rider..

  9. #9
    `Count Scalpula'
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    Smile I am not upgrading.

    Quote Originally Posted by markom
    Still, 2,5mm difference in crank length does not limit your performance - it's too little difference. Changes on tire pressures have more effect on speed...

    Anyway if you don't beliveve this and it really seems to bothering you so go out and get them longer cranks. It's little investment on something which may improve your lacking confidence more than actual crank lengthening.
    I should mention that I only took part on this topic because I think many people overestimate effect of equipment upgrades - unless something fails it's always about the rider..

    Markom, you need to try shorter than the standard 175m cranks that are on your MTB and then you will feel what I am feeling. Installing any crank shorter than the common 175m length cranks that you have on your MTB (you are lucky that you are not 5`5" or shorter) is a downgrade!
    Installing the common normal 175m is not an upgrade at all.
    Why is it that they downgrade the cranks on just the small frame while the extra large doesnt get longer cranks than a medium and large ? Do you see what I am trying to get at?
    Some people like to argue about something that they have never tried. Try the shorter cranks for yourself on your MTB and log back on about how they dont feel or perform any differently!
    And the part about "its always about the rider" yea, you are right, I ride over 50 miles everyweekend on MTB technical advanced courses that demand alot of leverage for climbs and these shorter cranks have less leverage than the normal size cranks THAT I CAN FEEL and this rider doesnt like the small tricycle feeling of these downgraded short cranks on his MTB!
    Maybe you would? But I doubt it very much. Good day and have a great time riding this weekend.

    racerX
    Happy with the normal size stuff on a short top tube bike.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerX
    Markom, you need to try shorter than the standard 175m cranks that are on your MTB and then you will feel what I am feeling.
    I have ridden with 172,5mm cranks. Not much difference in performance

    Quote Originally Posted by racerX
    Why is it that they downgrade the cranks on just the small frame while the extra large doesnt get longer cranks than a medium and large ?
    Shorter cranks on smaller sizes are used because smaller riders usually have shorter inseam and femur length.

    From http://www.kevinlippert.com -> cycling articles -> bikefit -> how to custom position a stock road bike

    Crank Length
    Crank length is usually based on inseam length and that is a good starting point. Here are the usual crank lengths based on inseam:

    Riders inseam of less than 29 inches = 165 mm cranks
    Inseam of 29 to 32 inches = 170 mm cranks
    Inseam of 32 to 34 inches = 172.5 mm cranks
    Inseam of 34 and higher = 175 mm cranks
    Now, that is a good starting point. However, it is not the definitive answer. Crank length needs to be based on femur length and not only on inseam length. Riders with shorter calves and longer femurs may go to longer cranks if they like, but riders with long calves and short femurs should stick with shorter cranks. You do not want your knees hitting your chest when you pedal. That is completely inefficient.



    Quote Originally Posted by racerX
    Good day and have a great time riding this weekend.
    Thanks, just had to cut ride shorter due thunderstorm... Happy trails for you too

  11. #11
    `Count Scalpula'
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    I got shorted!

    Yea, me too. I had to cut my ride short as well due to rain. And I do like to discuss technical stuff that does sometime get over looked and not a real concern to most people.
    All that crank length status is geared for Road bikes! I, myself use 170m cranks on my Road bike because I can spin at a consistant 120 cadence/RPM and shift a narrow band rear cassette 11-21 9 speed cog and love it.
    But on the other hand, my superV MTB race bike, I have been using a 180m cranks at a lower cadence and use a wide band 11-34 9 speed cog and love it. Why, because of the extra leverage that I have and I do not have to down shift as much and can spend more time nogotiating obsticles that are on MTB trails. Somewhat like riding a single speed. Do you know that the recommended crank length for single speeds are 180m. My riding style on the dirt is so much different than how I ride road. I like to torque large gears on the dirt with torque in mind so normal 175m length cranks would do just fine. On the road, I spin small gears at a real high rpm so I would and do use a shorter crank for road.
    I am really going to like this bike when the normal length cranks and a stem that will clear the lefty fork so the handle bars will be almost as low as the seat.
    Cannondale doesnt setup thier small frame XC race bikes very well. Who wants to have an XC bike with shorter cranks and the handlebars 4 inches higher than the seat?
    If they would of set these Scalpels up for small people, wouldnt the bottom bracket be narrower as well? Bottom bracket is the same width as all the other sizes. Bottom bracket width is an inch wider than whats on both my Road bike and superV and I use the exact Tri Ti egg beaters on two and stainless version on one. The stem is a stubby 80m x 20* and it makes contact with the lefty if you try flipping it over! The handlebars should of been narrower with ec 90 that is 22" wide but they use the ec 70 eastons that are 23" wide that are on all sizes. That is why I dont understand why they small spec the wrong areas of these Scalpels. Why didnt they just leave all the specs the same as they do with the med, large, & extra large by the different size frame only!

    Markom, I read your post that you mentioned that performace isnt much difference. But adding up every little bit counts if you are a racer. If I didnt race, I wouldnt worry about it as much. But then again, I wouldnt buy a Team Scalpel either. Just a Walmart bike that most likely wouldcome with the correct 175m cranks onit as well. "Hee Hee"

    Good talking with you Markom and others about this topic and I do thank Damion for willing to look in to availability and I did take your advice to bite the bullet and order the correct length 175m crankarms and a 100m x 20* stem so I can flip it over to be as low as the seat and still clear the lefty fork. Then it will be XC race ready. The way it sould have came anyways. It would of if I ordered any size but small. I never suffered with little man syndrome, but this setup almost made me have an attack! Had to put alittle humor in this post. "Hee Hee Hee"

    racerX

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