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  1. #1
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    Gemini or Prophet or Jekyll or Heckler?

    Hello,

    I recently sold my Ellsworth Joker and I am in the market for a new bike. My Joker was a good do everything type bike.(I know why did I sell it then...Bills). Anyways, I am around 5'11 210-215lbs and I like all types of riding. Mostly Aggressive trails with some light freeriding thrown in (By light I mean nothing over 8ft). I have come across an 03 Gemini that has nice parts Hope Discs, romic suspension, breakout front suspension, Deemax rims etc. The price is right and I thought the Gemini could be my new trail bike.

    The problem is the new Prophet is coming out and I dont know if it will be durable enough to handle the odd huck here and there. I like the idea of a 27lb bike with 6" of suspension. I realize it is basically a toned down Gemini but I weigh over 200lbs and need a bike that can handle some abuse. I also like the Heckler but I like having more than 5" of suspension. I am not a crazy ass freerider by any means I just like the option of having a bike that can be used for everything. Any input on this and bikes that will fill the void is appreciated.


    Thanks.

  2. #2
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
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    From what you're saying, I'd go for the Gemini. Yes it's heavier than the Prophet but I think the frame AND parts can take more abuse.

    I'm getting a Prophet but I weigh only 155lbs and don't do drop as big as you do and a great climbing bike is a priority for me. My trouble is deciding between the Prophet 1000 (cheaper, nice brakes but heavier), the 2000 (lighter but stuck with Shimano... good? bad? I don't know) and the 4000 (light, nice parts but very expensive, I will have to sell my Fisher Cake for a good amount of money to afford it).

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    From what you're saying, I'd go for the Gemini. Yes it's heavier than the Prophet but I think the frame AND parts can take more abuse.

    I'm getting a Prophet but I weigh only 155lbs and don't do drop as big as you do and a great climbing bike is a priority for me. My trouble is deciding between the Prophet 1000 (cheaper, nice brakes but heavier), the 2000 (lighter but stuck with Shimano... good? bad? I don't know) and the 4000 (light, nice parts but very expensive, I will have to sell my Fisher Cake for a good amount of money to afford it).
    Have you had the Prophet out for a test ride yet. I have heard nothing but good things. How do you like your Fisher as an all mountain ride? IMO a 6" bike like the Prophet should be built to take some abuse. After all what is the point of building a 6" travel bike if it cant withstand some abuse. After having reconstructive knee surgery and a shoulder that will need surgery maybe I should grow up and get the Prophet or similar all mountain type bike. It is just nice to have a bike that can take the hits and still go up the hills.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    Have you had the Prophet out for a test ride yet. I have heard nothing but good things. How do you like your Fisher as an all mountain ride? IMO a 6" bike like the Prophet should be built to take some abuse. After all what is the point of building a 6" travel bike if it cant withstand some abuse. After having reconstructive knee surgery and a shoulder that will need surgery maybe I should grow up and get the Prophet or similar all mountain type bike. It is just nice to have a bike that can take the hits and still go up the hills.
    Aws thinking about the prphet too.. and wanted something that would climb well... worried it may be a bit too freeride/ big jump oriented.... a couple forums have mentioned a new model for later inthe year called Darwin with 4 inches of travel.. but not enough "noise" to make me think there is any substance behind this? Anybody else know something about this mystery bike?

  5. #5
    LA CHÈVRE
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    Have you had the Prophet out for a test ride yet. I have heard nothing but good things. How do you like your Fisher as an all mountain ride? IMO a 6" bike like the Prophet should be built to take some abuse. After all what is the point of building a 6" travel bike if it cant withstand some abuse. After having reconstructive knee surgery and a shoulder that will need surgery maybe I should grow up and get the Prophet or similar all mountain type bike. It is just nice to have a bike that can take the hits and still go up the hills.
    No test ride yet, the bikes are not gonna be available until mid-october in Canada. The Fisher rides great, it's a very fun bike to ride fast and through anything. I'm just not a big fan of the Genesis geometry and there were problems with the first batch Trek produced.

    I'm not saying a Prophet can't take some abuse (even my old F1000 has been abused without problems) but the Gemini is a tank compared to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy B
    Aws thinking about the prophet too.. and wanted something that would climb well... worried it may be a bit too freeride/ big jump oriented.... a couple forums have mentioned a new model for later inthe year called Darwin with 4 inches of travel.. but not enough "noise" to make me think there is any substance behind this? Anybody else know something about this mystery bike?
    If you set the Prophet in its XC geometry, it should make a very good XC bike. That's what I'm gonna do with it, I ride very technical XC trails with many ups and many downs, a lot of rocks and roots so I'm no freerider but I enjoy trying things more and more like small jumps and drop-offs. All-Mountain type bikes (like the Prophet and my Cake) has allowed me not only to go faster than ever and going through trails I had a hard time doing before, but most importantly, riding through it all with a big smile on my face.

    As for the Darwin, the bike exists. I don't know when it's gonna be released (I heard November but nothing official) and I don't know how it looks but I know it will be released to fill the gap between the Scalpels and Prophets.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  6. #6
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    Bike choice

    When I bought my Jeckyl I compared it to the heckler and the Jeckyle won. More travel, lighter, infinitly adjustable angles and BB hight and durable for 5 foot drops with my 195# on it. The Gemini has a ton of brake jack and due to the distance of the main pivot from the BB it has a ton of peddle feedback and is tough on drivetrain components because of the chaingrowth that causes as it cycles through it's travel. I think the prophet should be at least as strong as the Jeckyl due to the un interupted seat tube and it is somewhat adjustable for angles and BB hight..

  7. #7
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    No Jekyll.

    Quote Originally Posted by slowrider
    When I bought my Jeckyl I compared it to the heckler and the Jeckyle won. More travel, lighter, infinitly adjustable angles and BB hight and durable for 5 foot drops with my 195# on it. The Gemini has a ton of brake jack and due to the distance of the main pivot from the BB it has a ton of peddle feedback and is tough on drivetrain components because of the chaingrowth that causes as it cycles through it's travel. I think the prophet should be at least as strong as the Jeckyl due to the un interupted seat tube and it is somewhat adjustable for angles and BB hight..
    I was thinking about the Jekyll over a year ago but my choice came down to durability and suspension choices. In theory the Jekyll has slightly more travel than the Heckler. However, the 5th element coil over is a plush shock that is very hard to bottom out compared to the shock on the Jekyll.

    The Heckler has a beefier frame than the Jekyll as well. Weight is not my concern rather strength and durability. I also found the Jekyll to have a lot of pedal feedback which warrants the use of a lockout which is a cover up for design inadequacies IMO. The Jekyll is a decent trail bike dont get me wrong I just dont think it is in the same league as a Heckler especially the one I am considering.(Firefly fork, 5th element rear, Bars, stem, etc).

    I have eliminated the Prophet as a choice because I need a bike to ride before the snow flies and The Gemini and Heckler that I am looking at right now are excellent deals. The Prophet may be a choice in year or two when my body tells me its time for a pure trail bike.
    I have ridden the Gemini and did not find it to have a lot of pedal feed back. The romic suspension plays a big role in that area.

    Thanks for the comments.

  8. #8
    IMBA Canada
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    If i were you i would choose the Gemini 2000. The 2000 is a good freeride bike w/ 7in both front and rear. It's able to handle the rough freeride (8ft drop you described) you want to get into.

    Also, thanks to the ajustable travel in the front and rear and SPV platform shocks at both ends also, it would make a good trailbike for the heavier dudes out there.

    If you're thinking about the Gemini 3000 from 03 with the Sherman, think that the Romic isn't as effective as the SPV shocks and also that the Breakout probably doesn't have the SPV built it which is gonna make it harder on the trails.

    Go with the Gemini 2000 (05,04) with the Sherman SPV and the Swinger SPV shock and you'll have so much fun! The bike can be pedaled very well AND get take the abuse you're throwing at it.

    ----------------------------------------

    As for the prophet, i'm going with the 1000 (most likely) and make a few upgrades right away. I'll get a chance to demo it for a whole week-end at the Kingdom Trails in Vermont on Sept 25-26th. I'll post an entire review with pictures as soon as possible. I use to do a lot of DH (my Intense M1 is for sale) and this year i had a Giant VT2 (also for sale) and it's an amazing bike. The only reason i'm switching to the Cannondale is the Lefty suspension that i love and also the look of the Prophet that is pretty amazing... Other then that, the parts on my VT were perfect and i still love that bike. The reason i want the long travel trail bike is to have as much fun as with a DH bike but all done in a smooth matter, no hucking, some dirt jumping but all fluid and soft. That's why the Gemini wouldn't be good for me.

    Good luck shopping, feel free to ask any other questions!

  9. #9
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    ... and if we just ... gemini

    I'll give a reccomerndation for the 2000 I have the 04 at the mo waiting at the shop as it was a small frame when i went to put it in 170 mode the shock damaged the frame, so I'm getting hopefully a warranty frame with the new 05 darker silver with an 05 5th element shock. I could have said take the bike back but I dont think another bike would have come close, I loved the single pivot and elevated chainstay esp. as I've had bike suffer chaisuck and ruin a fair few paint jobs.

  10. #10
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    Take another look at the Heckler

    I rode a Jekyll last season. Rode a SS while building my Heckler this season. The Heckler outrides the Jekyll hands down. The riding postion gives you better control. The 5th element coil is amazing compared to what is offered on the Jekyll. Even this years. I wish I could comment about the Gemini, I originally thought I was going to build one. I rode one of my friends,but, it was not set up properly for me. The frame seems durable, but I just loved the Heckler when I rode a large. I weigh 225 and am 6'2 and ride a large with a 120mm stem. Abosolutly fantastic!! I love the Heckler.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by raegeno
    I rode a Jekyll last season. Rode a SS while building my Heckler this season. The Heckler outrides the Jekyll hands down. The riding postion gives you better control. The 5th element coil is amazing compared to what is offered on the Jekyll. Even this years. I wish I could comment about the Gemini, I originally thought I was going to build one. I rode one of my friends,but, it was not set up properly for me. The frame seems durable, but I just loved the Heckler when I rode a large. I weigh 225 and am 6'2 and ride a large with a 120mm stem. Abosolutly fantastic!! I love the Heckler.
    I had the opposite experience. I owned a Heckler and found the bike too cumbersome for my taste. I think the Jekyll is way more nimble and responsive. I like the fact that I could tweek the geometry to match me perfectly.

    However, I weigh 175 and I am 5'10". That may have alot to do with which bike is more suitable for me. The Heckler and Jekyll are 2 different animals IMO. The Gemini is a great bike and is virtually bomb proof.

    Don't worry about the Heckler's durability. If you are a bigger guy looking for a sturdy all around bike, you can't go wrong with the Heckler. On the other hand, the Gemini can be set up to be an AWESOME freeride rig.

  12. #12
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    Am a big fan of the Lefty too... test rode a whole pile of bikes over the last month... the jekyll had the best front-end; the Orange 5 (Manitou SPV) had the best rear... climbed better than my hard-tail (9-year old Orange E3)....so I figured that the prophet would be fantastic... platform shock at the rear, lefty up front.

    Biggest disappointment, by the way, was the Blur....had 5th Element shock on which, the shop told me shouldered most of the blame.. was not set up right after several attempts... but frankly who wants a shock where 1 or 2 PSI can change a great ride into a disaster....

  13. #13
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    Blur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy B
    Am a big fan of the Lefty too... test rode a whole pile of bikes over the last month... the jekyll had the best front-end; the Orange 5 (Manitou SPV) had the best rear... climbed better than my hard-tail (9-year old Orange E3)....so I figured that the prophet would be fantastic... platform shock at the rear, lefty up front.

    Biggest disappointment, by the way, was the Blur....had 5th Element shock on which, the shop told me shouldered most of the blame.. was not set up right after several attempts... but frankly who wants a shock where 1 or 2 PSI can change a great ride into a disaster....
    Too bad your ride on the Blur didnt work out. I like the lefty also. Unbeatable mud clearance and super light. The 5th sounds like a chore to set up for sure. One reason I liked the simplicity of my old Romic D... just two dials and no shock pump to muck with. I never touched my shock once I had it set up and it worked great. The Romic is hit and miss. Either riders love it or hate it.

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