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  1. #1
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    FOX 36 on a Prophet?

    Hi all

    Some advise needed, I am thinking of Bigging up my Prophet for a little gnarlier riding! I was thinking of a FOX 36 (in any guise, Float, Van or even Talas if the head/seat angles are too steep for climbing with the fixed travel of the two previous models)

    Is the standard Prophet frame capable of the bigger fork? I ask this as the Prophet X (European Model) comes with the FOX 36 as standard! is this because the Prophet X comes with a gusseted head/ down tube to cope with the extra stress the longer travel fork creates or is the Prophet X a standard frame just like the other Prophets in the range?

    Any help would be great!

  2. #2
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    Cannondale has a tech note on this issue.

    If I remember correctly:
    standard Prophet: max A-C 530 mm including lower headset assembly (from axle to headtube)
    Prophet 4X, MX, X: max A-C 570 mm incl lower headset.

    That means Fox 36 on a standard Prophet will exceed recommended AC-height. Same with most Marzocchi 55s and 66.
    The new Fox 32 with 15 mm thru axle and 150 mm travel and RS Pike and Revelation will not.

    I though about this myself, but kept on with the Lefty because of this...

  3. #3
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    Many thank Daktari

    I think I will go down the road of getting a dedicated bike for the job of bigger hits ( Spesh SX trail, Kona Coiler, Patriot 66, Lapiere Spicy 516 etc ) and keep the Prophet for my everyday trail riding.

    That way I will not upset a great bike with Radical geometry! I also spoke to my Local C/Dale dealer today and he says that the Bottom Bkt is tweaked slightly on the Prophet X to handle the Geometry change of the 36 Fork. So as you have already pointed out it is a different frame to the normal Prophet!

    I have been around a few shops today and there is some great longer travel bikes out there to have a bit of fun on occasionally!

    Regards

  4. #4
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    I dont know if you know this but the '09 Talas 32 can have 150mm of travel with the 15QR. I dont know the axle to crown measurement. But the 36 is probably stiffer, but heavier. The 15qr is probably harder to find new wheels.

  5. #5
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    Cheers Duncan1104

    I think I will probably go down the Extra bike route , and keep the prophet stock as I like how it handles for the type of riding it was designed to do/ I like to do (on that specific bike).

    Regards

  6. #6
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    I tried putting 36 foxes on a prophet - couldn't do it !!!!!!


    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  7. #7
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    The mad literalist strikes again!

  8. #8
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    I went back and forth on this issue for weeks with a rep from Cannondale, attempting to determine how the use of a FOX 36 would affect the geometry of my Prophet. Final answer: the Prophet and Prophet MX frames are identical. The only difference, if any, exists in the swing arm and bottom bracket shells. Depending on where and when you purchased your Prophet MX, you may have a 12mm rear thru-axle or ISCG mounts. The frame geometries are the same. The Cannondale website is in error, displaying the same geometry chart for a standard Prophet as for a Prophet MX; by way of a FOX 36, the bike's geometry is altered.

    I have a FOX 36 on my Prophet...it is the best combination! I wanted to build as versatile a bike as possible; in my Prophet, there are four bikes; I have an XC race bike (as much as one can be at 30lbs.) XC Trail/All-Mountain, and by simple adjustment of my shock mount, I have a 4x/dual-slalom bike and a downhill rig too...all work amazingly well! The 160mm setting on the TALAS is useless when I have my shock in XC mode and the 130 setting is less necessary when in FR mode, so four out of six combinations isn't so bad. Overall, I can obtain a head tube angle anywhere between 68-64 degrees! With the bike in XC mode and at 160 on the fork, the head tube is so slack that the front end begins to feel sloppy...far too slack for the likes of any trail; as for the FR mode and my 130 setting, I just haven't found a good home for this setting.

    When I am back home in Marin County, CA, I make best use of the XC mode on the shock and toggle between 100mm and 130mm on the fork. 100mm is great for long climbs or fast, smooth cross-country; 130mm gives me a fast, stable bike for pedal friendly trails...some ups, some downs and some bigger than cross-country hits...gotta love trail riding! I currently live in Goleta, CA; the FR mode gets the most use down here at Elings park. Set it to FR and 100mm and I have the perfect Dual-Slalom bike and when I want to finish on the downhill course, pop that fork back out to 160mm for a bomber run.

    Like I said, the use of a FOX 36 makes a big difference in bike geometry and overall performance. I love my setup and wouldn't change it for anything else on the market. I have all the adjust ability I could ask for and the stiffest front end thanks to the 20mm thru-axle and 1.5 steerer tube.

    I'd strongly suggest you consider how you are going to ride your Prophet, before popping for a FOX 36. I do a lot of riding, in a lot of different places; if I were more localized, in a place like Marin County, I'd probably stick with the 140mm Lefty. The FOX 36 is amazing, however it wouldn't be so great without the TALAS settings. Should you get a FOX 36, I'd argue your only option is a TALAS...you will hate being stuck at 160mm all the time! Also, as an alternative, you could consider a RockShox Pike or Lyrik...I am not so sure about the Lyrik, however the Pike offers 150mm travel and has a much lower axle to crown measurement than the FOX 36; a Specialized E150 also has the same axle to crown measurement...you could up your travel by 10mm without impacting geometry too terribly much.

  9. #9
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    Cheers mylesofsmyles

    Some interesting stuff to think about! At the moment there is very little stock of 36 forks in the UK (Zero stock at Mojo the UK Fox importer) so would have to wait for a few months till the 2009 stock arrives. With regards to the Prophet X, I don't think that it is the same as the Prophet MX? Which we had a couple of years back, Unless it has been re-branded as just the X? but if so there is no mention of the Through 12 rear drop outs on the Prophet X that they used to market on the MX.

    Thanks for the advise anyway.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by prophet_1000
    Cheers mylesofsmyles

    Some interesting stuff to think about! At the moment there is very little stock of 36 forks in the UK (Zero stock at Mojo the UK Fox importer) so would have to wait for a few months till the 2009 stock arrives. With regards to the Prophet X, I don't think that it is the same as the Prophet MX? Which we had a couple of years back, Unless it has been re-branded as just the X? but if so there is no mention of the Through 12 rear drop outs on the Prophet X that they used to market on the MX.

    Thanks for the advise anyway.
    Nope, Prophet, Prophet X and Porphet MX are all derivatives of one another. Like I said regarding the Prophet MX, the only difference will be the rear dropouts and bottom bracket. 12mm thru-axles are cool however I do well with a 10mm DT Swiss RWS.

  11. #11
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    Cheers Mylesofsmyles for the info.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    I tried putting 36 foxes on a prophet - couldn't do it !!!!!!



  13. #13
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    dood I think you should go for a pike. They are sweet. They have the tallest A-C height you can get without voiding the warranty, and are super stiff, and they feel buttery. I think that unless you only race downhill, you don't need the 160mm. 140 is perfect on a prophet, and you don't need any more (if my riding is at all an indication of that...) My prophet is burly, the pike is also burly. I vote pike, It's the best choice.

  14. #14
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    Cheers Luse

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by luseboy
    dood I think you should go for a pike. They are sweet. They have the tallest A-C height you can get without voiding the warranty, and are super stiff, and they feel buttery. I think that unless you only race downhill, you don't need the 160mm. 140 is perfect on a prophet, and you don't need any more (if my riding is at all an indication of that...) My prophet is burly, the pike is also burly. I vote pike, It's the best choice.
    A Pike isn't a bad option, as I said. In comparing the FOX 36 to the Pike, I'd say you can't go wrong. In terms of stiffness, I don't think there is a best; both forks are amazingly stiff with the 20mm thru-axle. The Pike will have 10mm less travel, which I think is a non issue because 160mm is almost too much...150mm gives you "big-travel" without compromising geometry as much.

    In any case, I would make certain you get a fork with adjustable travel; you'll love your climbs that much more! The Pike has U-Turn, which is the same as TALAS, in theory. RockShox lets you shrink your fork as low as 95mm and all the way back to 150, with infinite adjust...I think every turn of the knob is 3mm. On the hole, I think this much adjust ability is absolutely unnecessary and overkill...I do fine with the three settings on TALAS...160mm, 130mm and 100mm.

    Between the two forks, there is hardly a better; both are light, stiff and butter smooth. I'd go Pike if I were more XC and Trail Riding, however I like the slacker geometry and slightly longer travel the FOX 36 gives my bike. One last point to consider is the steerer tube. All 2008 and new FOX 36 forks come with an optional 1.5" steerer tube, in place of the standard 1-1/8". Cannondale Prophets have a stock 1.5" head tube; take total advantage of such a feature! Does the Pike have an optional 1.5" steerer tube? A 1.5" steerer tube is going to make for an ultra-stiff front end, exponentially stiffer...I am loving every minute of mine. You can't suffer from too much front end stiffness; I think with my 1.5 steerer tube, I have the stiffest front end on a mountain bike that I have ever seen. Sometimes, this much front end stiffness feels like I am cheating; it will only make you more stable at speed and in turns...which I hope you see a lot of.

    Your suspension is there to keep you stable through bumpy sections; it is only going to perform its best with the utmost in stiffness. Flex interrupts suspension...that's why Lefty is so great! Trail bikes, and mountain bikes in general, are striving to achieve greater stability and traction by way of stiffer chassis (frame and suspension) designs. A feature like a 1.5" head tube is something that is being seen more and more in the trail bike category...hopefully soon to be the industry standard! Having such a head tube on an earlier bike like a Prophet is a total blessing. There are plenty of forks to consider, in the travel size you seek; I'd strongly suggest you narrow it down to the ones with available 1.5" steerer tubes. Don't go for slacker geometry and longer travel without effectively pairing it to sufficient front end stiffness.

  16. #16
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    I stand corrected, by myself! There are fewer forks in the market in your desired size with 1.5" steerer tubes. The two series I found were the FOX 36 and RockShox Lyrik. Both series offer 1.5" in every model. Either way, I'd limit to these two as you will gain the best suspension and stiffness combination available.

    Between the two, you can have greater travel adjust with the RockShox than the FOX, easier 20mm QR system too and slightly lighter weight. I am happy with my FOX 36, but my friend is ecstatic about his Lyrik...you can't go wrong. I trust the FOX name far more so than I do RockShox, however they seem to building quality components these days.

    Stiffness is Key!

  17. #17
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    How far can I push my Prophet? Its not an Mx but I'm thinking of upgrading the rear end, I also plan on putting a Lyrik or a 36 on the front and a dhx air. My type of riding is mostly freeride trail, no drops over six feet yet but could be in the next couple of seasons. I'm tired of pushing my dh bike around the local trails, its way overkill so I picked up a prophet frame but now I'm wondering how far I can push it?

  18. #18
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    Mylesofsmyles, you are forgetting the Prophet MX has extra head tube gusseting. This means extra strength in this area, and this allows for the 160mm forks. I personally would not recommend a 160mm fork on a Prophet. The frame in my opinion is too light, flexy and weak in the long run to do the big riding that a 160mm fork will allow. Plus, on a normal Prophet with a fork that tall you'll void the warrenty, something you may well need if you go big.

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