The Ultimate is the same frame geometry but made with a different carbon lay-up (High Modulus). It saves weight and is stiffer than a regular carbon frame, it's also more expensive to make.
High modulus fiber is simply a more refined carbon fiber. The term “modulus” refers to “Young’s Modulus”, a measurement of stiffness. The higher the number, the stiffer the fiber. The process for making the higher modulus fibers involves stripping off the outer layers of the individual fibers, leaving the stronger core. A few companies are using a limited amount of high modulus fiber. It is expensive, and is used sparingly. The most advanced bicycle frame as of this writing is made with high modulus carbon co-mingled with boron fiber. The boron fiber is interesting because of its incredibly high stiffness in compression. Combined with the high tensile stiffness of the carbon, a synergistic result is achieved where the overall stiffness of the tube is greater than that predicted by the properties of the individual fibers. The ultra tough boron fiber also protects the more brittle high modulus carbon fiber. These advanced properties have found favor in the landing gear of fighter jets as well as a modern bicycle frame.
The Ultimate is the same frame geometry but made with a different carbon lay-up (High Modulus). It saves weight and is stiffer than a regular carbon frame, it's also more expensive to make.
High modulus fiber is simply a more refined carbon fiber. The term “modulus” refers to “Young’s Modulus”, a measurement of stiffness. The higher the number, the stiffer the fiber. The process for making the higher modulus fibers involves stripping off the outer layers of the individual fibers, leaving the stronger core. A few companies are using a limited amount of high modulus fiber. It is expensive, and is used sparingly. The most advanced bicycle frame as of this writing is made with high modulus carbon co-mingled with boron fiber. The boron fiber is interesting because of its incredibly high stiffness in compression. Combined with the high tensile stiffness of the carbon, a synergistic result is achieved where the overall stiffness of the tube is greater than that predicted by the properties of the individual fibers. The ultra tough boron fiber also protects the more brittle high modulus carbon fiber. These advanced properties have found favor in the landing gear of fighter jets as well as a modern bicycle frame.
Thanks....very interesting. I haven't seen Cannondale talk about the difference in any articles. I just figured they were the same. My frame is the black with blue (large) The strange thing is....it had a weight listing as 950 grams (the same as the ultimate "Hi-Mod)
Yeah, I thought the 1 was the same hi-mod frame as the ultimate (ultimate has less paint for lighter weight though) also it's the same frame if you buy a frame only like this:- Cannondale flash 29er HiMod frame - Dr. Cannondale
If you buy the 2 or 3 you get the "standard" mod. 100g or so heavier and a bit less stiff supposedly. I've seen lots of shop listings for carbon 2 / 3's which erroneously state: "hi-mod frame"
That's as far as I know for the 29er's but I presume it's the same story with the 26ers. Would be interested to hear if anyone has ridden a hi-mod and a standard for comparrison...
Last edited by jimification; 03-06-2012 at 02:56 AM.
I predict this thread to get big. I'm pretty sure most of us flash carbon owners assumed we all had the same frames. Guess not. When I purchased my frame on ebay (new) I noticed the "ultimate was selling for $ 300 more from the same seller...and I remember thinking "who would pay that much more for a different paint job"?
I have a Flash 3 from 2010 (as pictured above) and I was informed by my local bike shop that this Flash was “one step down” compared to the Ultimate. They did not try to hide that it is two different type of lay-up.
I have a Flash 3 from 2010 (as pictured above) and I was informed by my local bike shop that this Flash was “one step down” compared to the Ultimate. They did not try to hide that it is two different type of lay-up.
Still very happy of the lower grade frame.
Don't get me wrong....I love my frame/bike. I just find it strange it hasn't been more talked about.
I also would like to know why the weight listing is the same?
I think the shops are confused rather than there being some deliberate deception. I weighed my Large 29er Flash frame at 1188g with steel bottle cage bolts, anti chainsuck plate and the B/B guide on it. The hi-mod on dr cannondale is listed at 1040g.... I suspect the higher weight is almost entirely due to the additional paint on the 2 and 3. I wonder if the hi-mod fibres actually make for much weight difference at all....
....How much weight did Eliflap lose sanding the white paint off his hi-mod?
Last edited by jimification; 03-06-2012 at 08:11 AM.
If I read the above I don't understand it quiet.
So if I could have the two frames;
a Flash Ultimate 2011 and a Flash Hi-mod 2 2011.
Are these 2 frame different frames, from material and paint? Because this is no where written down.
Or is it the Hi-mod frames vs the Carbon 3 & 4?
So I regroup them as
Group 1: Flash Ultimate, Hi-mod 1, Hi-mond 2 = 950 grams
Group 2: Flash carbon 3, carbon4 = 1140 grams
Not sure why there is confusion, other than because you are buying frames off of ebay. Just look at the Cannondale catalogues. They have always differenciated between the two types of frames by calling 1 of them BallisTec Hi-Mod and the other just BallisTec this was true with the scalpels until 2012 as well. Now all the Carbon Scalpels are made only with the BallisTec Hi Mod Material. If you purchase a frame only you need to cross reference the color of it to the model of the complete bike in the catalog and the look under "specs" to see the frame line item for carbon type. you can find the archive cataloges under the "support" tab on the Cannondale website. If you ever need to veiw the way older catalogues, you can visit vintagecannondale.com
Not sure why there is confusion, other than because you are buying frames off of ebay. Just look at the Cannondale catalogues. They have always differenciated between the two types of frames by calling 1 of them BallisTec Hi-Mod and the other just BallisTec this was true with the scalpels until 2012 as well. Now all the Carbon Scalpels are made only with the BallisTec Hi Mod Material. If you purchase a frame only you need to cross reference the color of it to the model of the complete bike in the catalog and the look under "specs" to see the frame line item for carbon type. you can find the archive cataloges under the "support" tab on the Cannondale website. If you ever need to veiw the way older catalogues, you can visit vintagecannondale.com
Thank you for the info and the link, gives me something to do during downtime at work
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Originally Posted by driver bob
