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Thread: F4000Sl

  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! F4000Sl

    I have just put my deposit on the F4000SL and flying in over July to visit the USofA and do some rescue courses.

    Does anyone here have any comments about the various bits 'n' pieces that it comes with?

    http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/c...del-4FS4S.html

    Also those who live in San Fran - where I am buying the bike - I want to go for a couple of quick rides close to the city - I will only have public or pedal transport - to put the bike through its paces!

    I am staying in San Mateo [spelling?] Bike Shop is in Taraval Street

    Can't wait to have the new beastie - my current bike is a 97 F2000 so it will be like trading up to a Porsche from a VW

    :>>:O)~
    www.vorg.org.nz

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    Cannondale Europe are having a mad sale on at the moment. The F4000sl retails at 3299 in the uk. It has been slashed to 2499.

    I am mad as my local bike shop tried getting my to buy early as they said this bike would not come down in price alot.

    I am also mad with Cannodale because you can see how much they are overpricing their top end bikes.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Cannondale Europe are having a mad sale on at the moment. The F4000sl retails at 3299 in the uk. It has been slashed to 2499.

    I am mad as my local bike shop tried getting my to buy early as they said this bike would not come down in price alot.

    I am also mad with Cannodale because you can see how much they are overpricing their top end bikes.
    What's early?
    I bought my F4000sl in September 03 - so it's now 9 months old. I'd be really surprised if there weren't big discounts by now. it's not like anything is going to radically change on a hardtail anyway. I'd guess the XTR brakes + shifters are gone for 05 to be replaced by X.0 and martas. I did that when I bought the bike anyway,

    Overpricing? - it is their job to make a profit..... If you don't think something is worth the price then don't buy it - it's not that hard. Complaining when it becomes cheap seems really odd to me.

  4. #4
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    This bike is overpriced by nearly 2000!!!!!!

    Thats some profit markup,

    At some point in life you will have trouble paying your bills, or putting food in your kids mouth. Then just remember where a huge sum of wasteful money went.

    To some fat smiling cat at Cannondale.

    Expensive bikes dont always mean quality and cheaper bikes dont always mean rubbish.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    This bike is overpriced by nearly 2000!!!!!!

    Thats some profit markup,

    At some point in life you will have trouble paying your bills, or putting food in your kids mouth. Then just remember where a huge sum of wasteful money went.

    To some fat smiling cat at Cannondale.

    Expensive bikes dont always mean quality and cheaper bikes dont always mean rubbish.
    I certainly don't mean to be agressive, but business is like that. All bike companies make similar profits. Just because they've taken a lot off doesn't mean they are selling at cost - they might be making a loss at that price, but if they don't sell those bikes, the loss will be worse.

    Lets start with a number - 3299
    A good bike store with good ordering systems will probably buy that bike for 60% of the retail - say 2000.
    Cannondale Europe might well buy bring that bike in to europe for half of that - 1000; and it wouldn't surprise me if that bike is built for less than 500. Manufacturer bonus systems often offer bikes to store employees at 30% of retail - they're still making a profit.
    If you work in the Cannondale factory you might be able to buy slight seconds for around cost - 500.
    Yep - there's a lot of difference between cost and sale prices.
    Again, knowing that most bike companies are pretty similar, you can make an informed decision about whether you think a Cannondale bike is as good value as the next brand
    Cannondale USA might build that bike.
    If Cannondale bikes don't represent value that consumers are prepared to pay then they will go out of business, or they will change their business model to accomodate another demographic.
    Regardless, if investors don't see an annual return to them of at least 20% profit then things will change - there are better places to invest.

    put simply - It's called supply and demand

    I could whinge about the markup on Porsche cars too, or diamonds or even the price of a good meal at a nice restaurant.
    If you can't afford them then avoid luxury items. I'm well aware that expense doesn't mean quality. If you think it's wasteful then you don't really need the bike now do you?
    I work hard for everything I have and the reward for my work is my beautiful bikes.

    Peace

  6. #6
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    And if you have trouble feeding your kids but own a f4000, you need to evaluate your priorities. All bike companies make similar markup on there products, and the last i checked bike companies didn't have profits that would warrant complaint about what we pay.

  7. #7
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    You gotta keep in mind, that much of that profit goes into R&D for future projects, some might payoff big, others might bring huge losses[like the motorsport division, which actually took the whole company under chapter 11]. So, even if the manufacturing price of that F4000SL is somewhere around 10% of the price, you gotta add all the money that went into learning how to build that bike, as well as all the money that went to waste trying ideas that looked good on paper but didn't quite work out in the end. You'll find that the margin of profit, long term, is much smaller.

    It's a rule in bussiness, the higher the risk, the higher the profit.

    By the way, anyone knows how much one of those wonders weights??
    Who is this doin' this synthetic type of alpha-beta psychadelic funkin'

  8. #8
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    Hi

    I am interested in reading about profits and supply and demand and BTW I am getting a pretty good discount from the bike shop and when you factor in how much it would cost to do a special order to NZ I am very happy :O)

    BUT nicholasc You have had the F4000SL for 9 months now - what's good / bad etc why did you drop the XTR?

    I would appreciate any comments

    Cheers
    Shailer
    www.vorg.org.nz

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbrat
    Hi

    I am interested in reading about profits and supply and demand and BTW I am getting a pretty good discount from the bike shop and when you factor in how much it would cost to do a special order to NZ I am very happy :O)

    BUT nicholasc You have had the F4000SL for 9 months now - what's good / bad etc why did you drop the XTR?

    I would appreciate any comments

    Cheers
    Shailer
    www.vorg.org.nz
    I put the XTR on my 'training' bike - it's another HT a couple of years older that I use mainly on bike paths. I found the brakes did not have as much initial bite at the martas (some will call this increased modulation...) but I could live with that, and the shifters were fine untill the drivetrain got muddy and then I had real trouble keeping them tuned.
    Seeing as I already had the martas and X.0 shifters and rear derailleur, I just swapped the stuff over. Glad I did - never had a problem since.
    I don't really subscribe to the shimano/SRAM fanboy debate - they're both good products. It's just that the SRAM on the 4000 works better when muddy....and I like getting muddy.
    I suspect the routing of cables under the BB does shimano no favours here.
    I think Susi, Roel and the rest of the Cannondale race team are using the same combination this year - but that might just be corporate politics too.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for that

    yeah I scratch my head sometimes to see C'Dale still routing under the BB

    Cheers
    Mtbrat
    www.vorg.org.nz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbrat
    Thanks for that

    yeah I scratch my head sometimes to see C'Dale still routing under the BB

    Cheers
    Mtbrat
    www.vorg.org.nz
    I've considered flying to the US just for a bike. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. How did you organise the store?
    July would break my heart - only a month or so till the 05 ones are out, although as I said earlier - I don't think there's much of a change coming. I actually like the 04 paint scheme better than the on the lads are racing in the world cup so far.
    Are you in the SES or services? I've an uncle over there who loves his 'tramping'.

    Nick

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    What colour scheme are the riders on at the moment???

    I like the 2004 f4000sl scheme. If cannondale have messed this up I shall not be buying a 2005 bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    What colour scheme are the riders on at the moment???

    I like the 2004 f4000sl scheme. If cannondale have messed this up I shall not be buying a 2005 bike.
    http://www.canadiancyclist.com/races...s/DSC_0004.jpg

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    Why cant they just leave something alone.

    Theres a saying that if its not broke dont fix it.

    Cannondale have never been know for their creative decals nor paint schemes. But the 2004 models showed some promise.

    Like most things, products sell on looks. Trek are now offering Project One which is a scheme to make their bland bikes look better. With the help of the Klein team they aquired.

    Cannodale must compete. I would like a nice paint job with my name on the frame like Klein do.

  15. #15
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    Yeah, Cannondale should do something about their paint jobs. Most of them are usually cool, but there's always one of two every year that are just plain horrible. Like the 2004 scalpel 2000 color scheme. If I was considering to buy that bike I'll rather go for the scalpel 900 or just save for the 3000; cause that thing is plain ugly.
    This year's team color scheme was plain awesome, they shouldn't had changed it.
    Who is this doin' this synthetic type of alpha-beta psychadelic funkin'

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    Yes I agree it was. I liked it and it was what make me want to buy a cannodale. I am still in saving mode and I may go for the 2004 model still.


    But cannodale dont learn. Bikes sell on image like most things. And their models are butt ugly people are gonna pass it by no matter what it comes with.

    The 2005 team colour scheme will be my deciding factor.

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    CANNONDALE Si VS FSA TEAM CARBON ??? HELP!!

    Hi there!!!
    I have two 2004 team scalpel frames one frame has an oversized bb with a cannondale Si crankset installed & the other frame is a regular stlyle bb shell & has a fsa team carbon crankset with a Ti bb installed....
    I need to part with one of the frames so i need some constructive criticism on which i should keep? which of the two crankset's would need less maintanance? I have heard that the FSA carbon crankset's have creaking issues? Am i limited to just the Si crankset with the oversized bb, or is there more crankset option's later on down the road if i choose to upgrade?
    your feedback would be fab!!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by KleinAttitude
    Yes I agree it was. I liked it and it was what make me want to buy a cannodale. I am still in saving mode and I may go for the 2004 model still.


    But cannodale dont learn. Bikes sell on image like most things. And their models are butt ugly people are gonna pass it by no matter what it comes with.

    The 2005 team colour scheme will be my deciding factor.
    So after all the talk on price and value and comparing to other brands it comes down to colour?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholasc
    So after all the talk on price and value and comparing to other brands it comes down to colour?
    ignore it!!!!!
    Last edited by tmachalek; 06-04-2004 at 09:02 AM. Reason: mistake???

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmachalek
    ignore it!!!!!
    sorry - couldn't resist - will try harder

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    I comes down to alot of things.

    I always want the latest model. Dont we all. But if 2005 colour is rubbish then I shall be going for the 2004 model. And some serious components with the money I saved..

    Cannodales loss for making dire paint jobs. Every other year.

  22. #22
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    more serious components, you don't consider xtr to be serious enough? You might as well buy the F2000 and upgrade the components for that...
    About the color scheme, the 2005 team replica is cool, but it aint as cool as the 2004. I'll probably buy a 2004 out of someone who just wants to have the latest like KA, that way I'll pay a fraction of the price...
    Who is this doin' this synthetic type of alpha-beta psychadelic funkin'

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctico
    more serious components, you don't consider xtr to be serious enough? You might as well buy the F2000 and upgrade the components for that...
    About the color scheme, the 2005 team replica is cool, but it aint as cool as the 2004. I'll probably buy a 2004 out of someone who just wants to have the latest like KA, that way I'll pay a fraction of the price...
    Do you have a picture of the 2005 team scheme?

    I really want the 2004 Team Scalpel framset with Cranks and then thought SRAM XO and Magura Marta SLs would finish the bike off nicely.

    I hope the framesets get a nice reduction....
    Trev!

  24. #24
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    this was posted by nicolasc on an earlier reply, it looks like these are the 2005 team colors
    http://www.canadiancyclist.com/races...s/DSC_0004.jpg

    I really hope for a big price reduction. I'm really considering getting a second hand bike around december when all the equipment obsessed guys trash their 2004 models to get the 2005.
    Who is this doin' this synthetic type of alpha-beta psychadelic funkin'

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by xctico
    this was posted by nicolasc on an earlier reply, it looks like these are the 2005 team colors
    http://www.canadiancyclist.com/races...s/DSC_0004.jpg

    I really hope for a big price reduction. I'm really considering getting a second hand bike around december when all the equipment obsessed guys trash their 2004 models to get the 2005.
    Oh yeah - Silly me, I have seen a good number of those frames including Tinkers setup (I think....) I much prefer the 2004 colour big time, not that it really matters.

    To be honest I have been really toying with the idea of a Cannondale Scalpel. I ride a lovely brilliant 2004 Ellsworth Truth, but its perhaps just a little too plush for my needs, particulalrly now that much emphasis is put on my training on the roadie and performance on the MTB at races....
    Trev!

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