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Thread: Cannondale 2009

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    Cannondale 2009

    Any news on the 09's? Specificly the Scalpel, Taurine & any 29'r?

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    Only thing I have heard for sure is that we can expect price increases across the board after a few years of prices going down. There is supposed to be a rep product meeting coming up, so more info about 08 will be out.
    I know on the road front we can expect to see a sub 1000g Super Six SL, new Synapse design, and they will have a CAAD9 entry level down into the 800 dollar range.

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    Only thing I have heard for sure is that we can expect price increases
    Well, in Europe, the Early intro models (e.g. the 2009 Rush models) are a lot cheaper (you can get a 2009 Rush 1 Early Intro for only 100 EUR more than a 2008 Rush 2...

    Has everything to do with the currency exchange rates (strong EUR) IMO.

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    Price increases should hit most brands due to increased material costs and shipping costs (you know, the gas thing, not only to ship bikes once they are built but shipping parts/components, shipping raw materials...).

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    Its not just Cannondale raising prices in the US, we are seeing prices go up for components and pretty much everything from distributors. For example the Scalpel 2 which was a 5K bike will now be closer to 5 1/2K and the Scalpel team will go up about 500 dollars. So dont expect shops to discount 08 inventory too much.

    Kevin

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    BB30 29er?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    Its not just Cannondale raising prices in the US, we are seeing prices go up for components and pretty much everything from distributors. For example the Scalpel 2 which was a 5K bike will now be closer to 5 1/2K and the Scalpel team will go up about 500 dollars. So dont expect shops to discount 08 inventory too much.

    Kevin
    At least is not as bad as Specialized. I read a post today that their new S-works Epic is going to be around $9,400 or something around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiar577
    At least is not as bad as Specialized. I read a post today that their new S-works Epic is going to be around $9,400 or something around.
    I have heard Specialized will have an average of 20% increase for 2009!
    Last edited by Dan Gerous; 07-01-2008 at 08:22 PM.

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    mtb sistem six?

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    6-Works

    Wow! $9,400 + Tax. I think this is getting out of hand! Don't get me wrong, I like to see new designs & technology, but at what price? $10k for a bike? I think we need a reality check! Unless there is something that is totaly diff, I don't think many people will buy NEW bikes, but rather opt for an older bike/frame & customise to there budget? I beleive the new Epic will de-value the old design epic. There will be alot of old epics going for cheap?
    I was wondering if Cannondale was coming out with something new before looking at the used market? I think i'm seeing a trend that is not good for New buyers.

    What ever happened to that 6-Works bike??????
    There should be a somewhat custom pgm with a few opt's such as Frame colour/ Groupo set/ Fork/Wheels???

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    Quote Originally Posted by scarsellone
    Wow! $9,400 + Tax. I think this is getting out of hand! Don't get me wrong, I like to see new designs & technology, but at what price? $10k for a bike? I think we need a reality check! Unless there is something that is totaly diff, I don't think many people will buy NEW bikes, but rather opt for an older bike/frame & customise to there budget? I beleive the new Epic will de-value the old design epic. There will be alot of old epics going for cheap?
    I was wondering if Cannondale was coming out with something new before looking at the used market? I think i'm seeing a trend that is not good for New buyers.
    Well you don’t have to get the S-works, or even better don’t buy Specialized.

    I’m going to tell you a little secret, the only thing that’s going down in value is my ****ing house!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168


    I’m going to tell you a little secret, the only thing that’s going down in value is my ****ing house!
    No secret there its the same all over the UK. Whilst production costs are going up peoples ability to pay is not keeping pace here. Its already sale time on 2008 bikes here eg 20% off an '08 F6 disc! If the Chinese ever start hanging onto the stuff they make for themselves we'll all have to start walking!

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    I went by a brand-x bike demo last weekend on my carbon rush and the rep stated that he had seen a new carbon rush recently at a bike show and that the rear swingarm (chainstay/seatstay) was made of carbon fiber but they have not been released to the public because of problems with the steel inserts coming loose? Any idea if this info is accurate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by murphyd
    BB30 29er?
    unofficially, yes. there are a few out there already. stay tuned to the word leaking from dealer meetings happening this week in park city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy78
    mtb sistem six?
    check out the 2008 catalog: there's a bike in there called 'scalpel'. They make it in carbon too. With a System Six front triangle

  16. #16
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    today in italy on GARDA lake there is a 2009 models presentation

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    Quote Originally Posted by eliflap
    today in italy on GARDA lake there is a 2009 models presentation
    Well, Eliflap, then you have the moral duty to go over there, take pictures, and post them here!!!

    We count on you!

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    Rush SL??

    The 2009 Early Intro models feature a Rush Carbon SL frame for the lefty equiped models and a 'normal' Rush Carbon frame for the non-lefty models. Is there any difference in the frames between the 2 or is 'SL' note only used to point out the Lefty models. The frames seem identical to me.

    http://www.probike.be/article.php3?id_article=418

    I wonder if they will keep the Rush as is for 2009, or that we may seem something new. Both the Scalpel and Prophet (in a sence) have been followed by a hinged single-pivot design. I can imagine something like the current Rush front triangle combined with a Rize rear. Maye Eliflap can shed some more light on this wiht pictures of the new 2009 models.

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    Andrea. Send us a report & if possible some pic's!
    Thanks in advance

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    is the rush carbon SL frame lighter than the 2008 model? i guess it's composed of a lighter carbon fiber material or composite that is why the SL Carbon 1 is already expensive with compared to the rush carbon team replica 2008 where the parts are top of the line. The SL carbon are just equipped with avid juicy 5's and shimano xt's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiar577
    At least is not as bad as Specialized. I read a post today that their new S-works Epic is going to be around $9,400 or something around.
    Prices seem to be getting totally ridiculous. When you can walk into a motorcycle dealer and get a brand new Ducati for less than a bicycle, there's something wrong. And I know all about economies of scale, which is why I picked a niche manufacturer compared to Honda, Yamaha, etc. Hell, I have an MV Agusta that didn't cost much more than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rex.daquil
    is the rush carbon SL frame lighter than the 2008 model? i guess it's composed of a lighter carbon fiber material or composite
    jips. that's what my LBS confirmed me!

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    Maybe the frame is lighter than last year but I'd say the SL designation is because of the carbon or Lefty forks. It doesn't make sense to produce 2 different carbon frames of the same model. I don't think bean counters would like it.

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    Rush Frames

    Any word on whether or not the rear suspension section on the new Rushes will be made of CF? I was told by another bike mfr rep that Cannondale has a CF rear section. Who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiar577
    Maybe the frame is lighter than last year but I'd say the SL designation is because of the carbon or Lefty forks. It doesn't make sense to produce 2 different carbon frames of the same model. I don't think bean counters would like it.
    Still, thats the case: the SL frame is said to use a different sort of carbon and construction that makes the frame 100 gr lighter

  26. #26
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    29"er news

    Riden' an Smilin'
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  27. #27
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    Many pictures from the 2009 european range here.


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    Thanks Dan!
    By the way. In that one pic with the 09 Scalpel's, is one of those a 29'er???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Many pictures from the 2009 european range here.

    Oh no! Its like unveiling the moto and rize all over again.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan1104
    Oh no! Its like unveiling the moto and rize all over again.
    Well, the wait isn't as long, just click to see the bikes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Many pictures from the 2009 european range here

    Wow......

    Fell in love with that white commuter.What is it called a "Lefty/Fatty" ? A "Fat Lefty" ?

    I just hope they get back to their senses and have a 26" single speed in the catalogue......
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    No judge/perp on the 2009 european presentation?
    My fleet:
    System six 08
    Moto 1 08
    Jekyll 1000(04)
    Perp 3 (08)

    Had R700 (05)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotel12
    No judge/perp on the 2009 european presentation?
    Or Prophet, I was told it would run for at least 09.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarsellone
    Thanks Dan!
    By the way. In that one pic with the 09 Scalpel's, is one of those a 29'er???
    Looks like a 26" to me...

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    So no Scalpel 29'er? It was hard to tell..any full susp 29'er??

    Awesome pics, though. Thank you for posting!

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    great...
    can't wait to see some bigger pictures of those models.
    That Scalpel in White, black and red is so delicious...
    My wallet is already in pain :-D

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    There is a new range of hardtail 29'ers with some really cool retro graphics reminisk of Frigidaire...
    Theres a new Lefty with one piece lower, which take us back to the single titanium casting. This lower is mix in concept of that ti lower and the current Aluminium lower. No news on changes to the damping cartridges yet.

    Sclapel is unchanged since they made a running change on the assembly line.
    Rush SL is unchanged, just new colours as can be seen in pics above.

    Seems biggest news is the 29er range and the new Lefty.

    I want that SIX road bike though....

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad
    There is a new range of hardtail 29'ers with some really cool retro graphics reminisk of Frigidaire...
    Hideous. I hope they bring out a raw option.

  39. #39
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    The new Lefty SL drops around 100 grams with the new lower but also because it doesn't have a negative spring, the internals are Rock Shox with something along the lines of dual air (air main spring, air negative spring)...

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    Dan is the SuperSix high modular frame still handmade in the USA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    The new Lefty SL drops around 100 grams with the new lower but also because it doesn't have a negative spring, the internals are Rock Shox with something along the lines of dual air (air main spring, air negative spring)...
    Will it be possible to convert an older SL to the new version?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiar577
    Will it be possible to convert an older SL to the new version?
    Let's keep our fingers crossed...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adventuregs
    Dan is the SuperSix high modular frame still handmade in the USA?
    Yes it is. This time without steps in the seat tube as well!

    -R

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad ronald
    Yes it is. This time without steps in the seat tube as well!

    -R

    Thanks. Iam glad to hear this! So the SystemSix is being replaced with the Six? It looks like an amazing bike the Six, but I will stick to the SuperSix. Will have to trade my current SuperSix for the new one. The white SuperSix looks awesome!!

  45. #45
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    The new Super Six apparently lost a whopping 140 grams!

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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiar577
    Will it be possible to convert an older SL to the new version?
    Too soon to tell really...

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    oh baby!


  48. #48
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    so nothing on the new carbon rear swing arm for the Rush?

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    there is no carbon swing arm for the rush................not for 2009 anyway. Check midyear updates

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    The white SuperSix is looking stunning!! What is the other colour options available in the SuperSix for 2009?

  51. #51
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    FYI that SuperSix is Europe only. The US version is equally cool, but slightly different with more bold graphics. The other colors are Black and Red.

    -R

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    The new Lefty SL drops around 100 grams with the new lower but also because it doesn't have a negative spring, the internals are Rock Shox with something along the lines of dual air (air main spring, air negative spring)...
    I believe it is the SoloAir air spring system that is fitted to the 2009 SL.
    But does it have the Motion Control Damper as well or is it still the std Cannondale DLR2 Damper with a Solo Air airspring?

  53. #53
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    Is the Lefty HS going to be incorporated in a full blown hard tail mountain bike???
    '96 Uber Light
    '00 R3000 TT
    '08 Six13

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad ronald
    FYI that SuperSix is Europe only. The US version is equally cool, but slightly different with more bold graphics. The other colors are Black and Red.

    -R
    Thanks Ronald! Iam down in South Africa so we normally get the USA spec bikes. You dont perhaps have pictures of the US spec bikes??

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad ronald
    FYI that SuperSix is Europe only.
    what is up with the "Europe" and the "rest of the world" crap?

    when I bought my 08 team scalpel I was miffed that it didn't come with a 42t chain ring like the "Europe" model did or the fizik arione saddle that I already have on my road bike.

    i even inquired with the cannondale dealer if i could purchase a 42t ring just like the 44t ring that came stock on the bike i was tolkd it's Europe only thing.

    can anyone logically explain why Europe seems to get totally different cannondale models than the rest of the world?

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    I agree. They even got the grip shifters. Regardless I think the components should be available! I had to find & purchase a 42T ring somewhere else! Why would they sell a bike that you can't use all gears? The LBS said you should not use that combo anyway. That's a total B___ answer.

  57. #57
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    Well, Shimano have put a big X on the little drawings showing crosschaining for years, nobody will say officially that you can crosschain, it has been a big no-no for a long time, common knowledge. Many of us do it, some just have no clue, others accept the consequences of the much faster wearing drivetrain. You can shift a manual car without using the clutch, it will work but should you do it?

    European models are speced by Cannondale Europe. Each division spec their bikes to meet their own market and economics and the markets are very different. Notice how many city/urban/Bad Boy bikes there are in the European catalog? That doesn't mean a Team Scalpel with a 42T ring, FSA post, Carbon railed saddle, Vredestein tires and Grip Shifts wouldn't sell at all outside Europe, but it would probably sell less, or wouldn't meet certain price points they want to achieve. No spec for a bike is perfect for everyone, they just try to get the closest to what most people want and are willing to pay... it has been discussed many times. Besides, buying a 42T ring aftermarket is cheaper and faster than getting a Cannondale one from the European offices...
    Last edited by Dan Gerous; 07-16-2008 at 01:12 PM.

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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarsellone
    I agree. They even got the grip shifters. Regardless I think the components should be available! I had to find & purchase a 42T ring somewhere else!
    ditto here!

    although I was not a huge grip shift fan in the past I did put them on the bike just because they work so much better with a 2x9 set up that you can trim the front derailleur so it works with all the gear combos and with the stock sram triggers it just had a hard time pulling enough cable for the big jump from 29t to 44t or 42t I would really have to force it to get there.

    it's silly that I had to spend more money on a very expensive bike already when if they had just spec'd the U.S. version like they did the European one I would not of had to go through all that upgrades.

    i woulda rather had a sram 990 cassette and a XT or Sram front derailleur than the costly XTR stuff and been able to get the same build as the European team edition bike.

    also those maxxis monorail tires SUCK and i'm a big maxxis fan by the way but those tires have crap rolling resistance compared to the crossmarks.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Besides, buying a 42T ring aftermarket is cheaper and faster than getting a Cannondale one from the European offices...
    yeah it was PITA to find a 42t chainring i bought two shimano lx 94bcd chainrings for $24 bucks from jensonusa.com just so i woud not have to go through the hassle later.

    i have no idea where to get a 42t Middleburn chainring in the U.S.

  60. #60
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    MTB Tandems are the US distributors and they sell directly. Otherwise, Chain Reaction Cycles are in the UK but they come out pretty competitivly priced... But most shops can get them for you.

    Cannondale is not a company that makes custom builds. Normally, it's the shop's job to fine tune and swap parts to make the consumer happy. Most will swap tires if you want and I'm sure they would swap X.0 triggers for Grip Shift, the twisters are much cheaper so they wouldn't charge, maybe even credit you for the swap.

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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Normally, it's the shop's job to fine tune and swap parts to make the consumer happy. Most will swap tires if you want and I'm sure they would swap X.0 triggers for Grip Shift, the twisters are much cheaper so they wouldn't charge, maybe even credit you for the swap.
    Please point me in the right direction, I’ve got 5 Cannondale dealers I can drive too easily and none of them would even put some decent pedals on.

    I believe Giant is one of the only manufactures that actually asks its dealers to do that, then again it’s not just a Cannondale dealer problem, Trek’s got 6 dealers, only 1 would swap a few things rather than watch you walk out the door without listening to reason.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous

    Cannondale is not a company that makes custom builds. Normally, it's the shop's job to fine tune and swap parts to make the consumer happy. Most will swap tires if you want and I'm sure they would swap X.0 triggers for Grip Shift, the twisters are much cheaper so they wouldn't charge, maybe even credit you for the swap.
    i've been into the cannondale shop twice once when i ordered the bike and the second time when i picked up the bike.

    i do 95% of the work on my bikes so i don't really hang out in bike shops as much as i did in the past so the "relationship" just isn't there for them to care about me.

    i doubt the shop that i bought my bike from woulda swapped out all the stuff that i wanted to have swapped out. thompson masterpiece offset post, grip shift X.0 shifters, fizik arione saddle, 42t chainring, maxxis crossmark tires.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL 9000
    i've been into the cannondale shop twice once when i ordered the bike and the second time when i picked up the bike.

    i do 95% of the work on my bikes so i don't really hang out in bike shops as much as i did in the past so the "relationship" just isn't there for them to care about me.

    i doubt the shop that i bought my bike from woulda swapped out all the stuff that i wanted to have swapped out. thompson masterpiece offset post, grip shift X.0 shifters, fizik arione saddle, 42t chainring, maxxis crossmark tires.
    Well, you can't blame Cannondale because they do not spec a bike exactly how you want it can you? But anyway, where would the fun be if you wouldn't have to do a few upgrades?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Well, you can't blame Cannondale because they do not spec a bike exactly how you want it can you? But anyway, where would the fun be if you wouldn't have to do a few upgrades?
    You an have a lot done when you have a bike dealer who's costumer focused and willing to leasten to his costumers, and with whom you make clear arrangements in advance.

    The LBS's I deal with have no problem swapping gear. When I order a bike, I immediately tell my LBS what gear I want to see replaced. If the replacement gear is about the same quality/price, no extra prive is due (like X0 drivetrain to XTR Shadow drivetrain). If I would want to swap for example a LX crank for a XTR crank, my LBS will off course charge me the price difference.

    Making clear arrangements in advance, that's my moto
    And if my LBS doens't want to swap stuff...? Then he loses a costumer...

  65. #65
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    Keep your LBS !

    I do know any around here who would do that for free.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

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    Hey HAL9000 I life in Europe all team replica's at my dealer(also my own) did come with a 44-29 setup. So I also had to buy new TA rings. I think al europe models were also equiped with the 44 ring. So it looks to be better in Europe but ain't always

    Greatings

  67. #67
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    A bike shop is a tough enough proposition to run in the first place and make a profit. If we were to swap out parts for no charge on every bike we sold then we would be left with a huge inventory of parts that we are losing money on because they dont sell. Then when the new XO, XTR etc comes out the parts are worth even less. You pay less for a complete bike than speccing a frame out for a reason. Cannondale specs US bikes the way they do because they see what sells in the US market. Dont expect Cannondale to spec out a bike just for you, and dont expect the dealer to take a hit just to get you the parts you want. If you can afford a Scalpel team, you can afford a chainring and some gripshifts!

    Kevin

    Quote Originally Posted by EGF168
    Please point me in the right direction, I’ve got 5 Cannondale dealers I can drive too easily and none of them would even put some decent pedals on.

    I believe Giant is one of the only manufactures that actually asks its dealers to do that, then again it’s not just a Cannondale dealer problem, Trek’s got 6 dealers, only 1 would swap a few things rather than watch you walk out the door without listening to reason.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    A bike shop is a tough enough proposition to run in the first place and make a profit. If we were to swap out parts for no charge on every bike we sold then we would be left with a huge inventory of parts that we are losing money on because they dont sell. Then when the new XO, XTR etc comes out the parts are worth even less. You pay less for a complete bike than speccing a frame out for a reason. Cannondale specs US bikes the way they do because they see what sells in the US market. Dont expect Cannondale to spec out a bike just for you, and dont expect the dealer to take a hit just to get you the parts you want. If you can afford a Scalpel team, you can afford a chainring and some gripshifts!

    Kevin
    You quoted me so I’ll just point out it wasn’t me who had a problem with what Cannondale puts on it bikes, so long as they’re good quality parts for the price then there is no problem for me.

    I understand that dealers will start losing a lot of money if they swap all sorts of parts. But if they are the same price parts that are not anything odd then they can sell them on, obviously that is made a lot easier if the shop does a lot of custom builds but my main problem is with dealers who would rather not sell a bike to you than put some decent pedals on.

    The one point it always comes back too is that if you give a deal to someone who would have otherwise have walked out the door then you can just order another of the same bike in and make twice the money, particularly for those jerks that think there is always another customer.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    A bike shop is a tough enough proposition to run in the first place and make a profit. If we were to swap out parts for no charge on every bike we sold then we would be left with a huge inventory of parts that we are losing money on because they dont sell. Then when the new XO, XTR etc comes out the parts are worth even less. You pay less for a complete bike than speccing a frame out for a reason. Cannondale specs US bikes the way they do because they see what sells in the US market. Dont expect Cannondale to spec out a bike just for you, and dont expect the dealer to take a hit just to get you the parts you want. If you can afford a Scalpel team, you can afford a chainring and some gripshifts!

    Kevin
    I really don't see why that could be a problem. A LBS could change parts for what they worth if they are on a new bike, because these parts are also new, and from my point of view, it has the same retail value of a new non-installed part. What defines new to me is "not used", so if it came new on a bike that haven't gone on a ride yet and if a costumer wants to give it in trade for a better part or component, I'd change it no problems, because it would only be a positive point for any LBS, because it would captive the costumer and the LBS would make a little more money since the costumer will pay the difference for the better part. It's not a box or a wrapped plastic bag that make a part newer than another. New is new, just that. I bet when these LBS get OEM parts on trade in deals right from a new bike for less, they sell these parts for a higher price mark, similar to MSRP. That's indeed a bad posture. I'd avoid such LBS. Mine is one of the good ones.

  70. #70
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    cannondale europe always gets the better paint schemes and models... no badboy rohlolffs over in the US. even the models are different.... what-ever.

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    [QUOTE=Black RONIN]I really don't see why that could be a problem. A LBS could change parts for what they worth if they are on a new bike, because these parts are also new, and from my point of view, it has the same retail value of a new non-installed part. What defines new to me is "not used", so if it came new on a bike that haven't gone on a ride yet and if a costumer wants to give it in trade for a better part or component, I'd change it no problems, because it would only be a positive point for any LBS, because it would captive the costumer and the LBS would make a little more money since the costumer will pay the difference for the better part. It's not a box or a wrapped plastic bag that make a part newer than another. New is new, just that. I bet when these LBS get OEM parts on trade in deals right from a new bike for less, they sell these parts for a higher price mark, similar to MSRP. That's indeed a bad posture. I'd avoid such LBS. Mine is one of the good ones.[/QUOTE

    What you are saying sounds quite logical and it actually happens quite a bit in some shops, however, the shop and the shop owner are supposed to follow the manufacturers rules which state that a part taken off of a complete bike is not equal to a new part. The one thing you need to understand is that your opinion does not equal what is ethical for a shop to do when they are supposed to be watching out for the interest of the manufacturers. I'm not saying I don't think shops should not switch out parts, I'm just trying to let you know how it is supposed to work. A large bike shop should move enough product that can have a "take off" parts shelf where they can sell these take off parts at a discount to recoup some of the cost for browing out the customer that just purchased a new bike and wanted the Sram instead of the Shimano. I wish we could just purchase a frame only without getting raped.

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    I work at a LBS that sells Cannondale.

    No more System Six, Prophet, Six 13.

    No new mountain bikes, Scalpel w/ Sid. Hollowgrams are now black like Europe. Not sure what else caught my eye oh yea, Taurine now say Taurine SL so probably a weight drop there.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumshcawheely
    ...the shop and the shop owner are supposed to follow the manufacturers rules which state that a part taken off of a complete bike is not equal to a new part. The one thing you need to understand is that your opinion does not equal what is ethical for a shop to do when they are supposed to be watching out for the interest of the manufacturers. I'm not saying I don't think shops should not switch out parts, I'm just trying to let you know how it is supposed to work. A large bike shop should move enough product that can have a "take off" parts shelf where they can sell these take off parts at a discount to recoup some of the cost for browing out the customer that just purchased a new bike and wanted the Sram instead of the Shimano.
    Manufactures (Cannondale, Trek, Shimano, SRAM, RS, Fox, whatever) gain anyway when you get a new bike or get parts alone out of the box. They will make money anyway, your money, my money, since that part that was traded in was already paid by you and then will be sold to someone as you get another part instead and, having you to return credit for it or not, it is like a regular sale for that part, since the shop is only accepting a similar part or a part plus some money to cover any price difference to give you a new part. The way it's supposed to work is towards the costumer's interest, because any shop, small or big, only exists and survives due to its clients and not otherwise. Just as much any manufacturer. Just as a bike or a part exist to attend the needs of riders, not the opposite. If you, as a concious costumer, start to take this position, as the one everyone is asking your money for, you'd know you have more power than any shop and any manufacturer, because they only don't want your money, they NEED it. But as long people think shops are doing a favor for selling them things (it's your hard-earned, blood-sweated money that's buying the damn thing, c'mon!), these shops will set rules to benefict themselves as much as they can, because it's LOGICAL (and far from ETHICAL) that they want more money for the same thing, just because you're allowing they to do that. You should be the one who gets the best deal, not the shop or manufacturer. Don't you think it's a better logic?

  74. #74
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    So Black RONIN will you want new parts on your new bike or are you happy to accept at full retail some bits one of the apprentices pulled off someone elses new bike?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    A bike shop is a tough enough proposition to run in the first place and make a profit. If we were to swap out parts for no charge on every bike we sold then we would be left with a huge inventory of parts that we are losing money on because they dont sell. Then when the new XO, XTR etc comes out the parts are worth even less. You pay less for a complete bike than speccing a frame out for a reason. Cannondale specs US bikes the way they do because they see what sells in the US market. Dont expect Cannondale to spec out a bike just for you, and dont expect the dealer to take a hit just to get you the parts you want. If you can afford a Scalpel team, you can afford a chainring and some gripshifts!

    Kevin
    That is what Ebay is for. Have one of your shop lackeys spend a few hours and list all of your leftover parts. It keeps the customers happy that they can get what they want, and costs you nothing in held inventory if you do it right. Sell the parts going on the bike for a profit, charge labor, and there you go!

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baker921
    So Black RONIN will you want new parts on your new bike or are you happy to accept at full retail some bits one of the apprentices pulled off someone elses new bike?
    What shop are buying your bikes that allow apprentices handle expensive bikes? Anyway, is the part used? If it's not, no problem, I'd take it. Now, if it's broken, that's another thing.

    And yes, I'd take full retail price on replaced new parts if the ones taken from new bike was also taken at full retail price, or at least use the MSRP as base to set a price mark between them for me to pay the difference or get some store credit. Why? Wouldn't you?

    I bet if that was your bike, you'd like to get the best deal out of your new, never used, "just pulled out of the box but just attached to a frame" parts. Just like anyone else. And I'm no different. Oh well, maybe just a little...

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black RONIN
    Manufactures,,,
    You should be writing to all the bike components manufacturer's, not to me. I'm a consumer just like you, but I just happen to respect the fact that the people that make the great components that we get to use these days have to create rules for the people that sell such parts, so that they don't get driven into the ground by shops swapping and bending parts and claiming that they came that way.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumshcawheely
    You should be writing to all the bike components manufacturer's, not to me. I'm a consumer just like you, but I just happen to respect the fact that the people that make the great components that we get to use these days have to create rules for the people that sell such parts, so that they don't get driven into the ground by shops swapping and bending parts and claiming that they came that way.
    Right, but you just don't happen to buy parts from some strange, unknown guy down the street, do you? We're talking about bike shops, and if a shop offers you a part that's either bended, damaged or broken, you don't need to buy it or accept as a trade off. My LBS has been great so far and I've got a lot of good deals there, so I can't really complain. I was just hinting you can always ask for a better deal, though. Shops are most of times our only link to most manufacturers, so it's not to manufacturers we should be talking to, but to the shops themselves. If the shop is good and knows how much a satisfied costumer worths, they will offer you great deals even before you ask for it. If they're not, maybe you're in the wrong shop.

  79. #79
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    If I buy a bike. I look for the model with comp's that is close to what I'm looking for. Then if there is something I want changed I ask my LBS if possible & any cost infraction? Does it effect warranty?
    That said I changed my X0 trigger to X0 twist at no extra cost. Great cause the bike came spec'd with the X0 trigger. After the fact I realized that the twist shifters cost almost 2/3's LESS. Now they have the new triggers that they can sell as new to someone else. Therefore they made $ of me & the person they will sell the triggers too.
    I understand they will charge to switch comp's, but we are all feeling the pinch these days,
    It would be nice if LBS were honest with customers. Some Bike shops question cutomer loyalty, with what i went thru why would i not shop around? Do you not shop around for the best price when buying a new car?
    Bottom line IMO is Cutomer service.

  80. #80
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    Also never forget that the tech changing the part on your very expensive bike is paid by the hour.
    The profit margin on a full bike is a lot less than parts. if the shop makes 400$ profit on your bike and they has to do a crank & fork swap wich can take him couple of hours @ +-20/hre , that eats up a lot of margin for a happy customer , the shop HAS to charge , at least , the job.
    They won't necesarily tell you the amount you pay is for what. You can't know how much they pay for the swapped part. Was it booking at the start of the season , was it ordinary order? They check in the catalog , showing MSRP , you know they paid 50% of that price and less if it was "booking", so if they say I'll charge you 200 for that new crank , maybe there is 100 going to the tech.....
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  81. #81
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    Well folks, I have the 09 dealer handbook in front of me. The new additions in the mountain line are a Moto 4 and 5 with a US made alloy frame! The Moto 4 runs 3400 and Moto 5 2400. The Rush has 2 carbon bikes in the range (with a lighter high modulus frame) and 2 alloy starting at 1350. They have added a Scalpel 5 with a Sid Race fork.
    The F4 and above are US made caffeine frames, below that we run to a F9 that is the same as the 07 F7 in the CO2, although they now have a CO2 SL with butted tubing.
    On the 29'er front the 29'er 1 now is 23lb out of the box and has the cool (or ugly depending on your taste) 50's color scheme.
    Overall they have a great lineup.

    Kevin

  82. #82
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    Hey Wombat, could you describe the more expensive '09 alloy Rush (price, color,spec)? Thanks
    "Caught my first tube this morning....sir!"

  83. #83
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    Rush 6 comes with Fox F120RL fork, SRAM X7, Juicy 3 spec with suggested retail of 1750. Comes in white or blue.

    Kevin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister T.
    Well, in Europe, the Early intro models (e.g. the 2009 Rush models) are a lot cheaper (you can get a 2009 Rush 1 Early Intro for only 100 EUR more than a 2008 Rush 2...

    Has everything to do with the currency exchange rates (strong EUR) IMO.
    That's because the 2009 Rush 1 is basically the 2008 Rush 2...so you are paying more for it. Fox Lefty, XTR goods with some Shimano STX stuff to keep the p[rice in check.

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    Really NO pics of 2009 models yet available (except for the pics ans links posted here in this topic)????

    I'm dying to see pics and specs of the new models (read: new scalples) and the new lighter Lefty SL...
    Can someone scan in the new 2009 catalog

    This is a pic of the scalpel team (?) which I found: http://bp0.blogger.com/_RnIrwSWCwM4/...-h/scalpel.JPG

    Come on guys, post those pics!!!

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    Interesting Tires. They must be new from Continental? Tubless? Race King 2.0?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scarsellone
    Interesting Tires. They must be new from Continental? Tubless? Race King 2.0?
    Probably tubeless, since mounted on a Mavic UST rim... The supersonic (lightest tubeversion) version of continental tyres is practically impossible to mount with noTubes...

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister T.
    Probably tubeless, since mounted on a Mavic UST rim... The supersonic (lightest tubeversion) version of continental tyres is practically impossible to mount with noTubes...
    Really? I have seen people using Supersonics with Stan's setups... I think this bike comes with tubes, no company will put Stan's sealant in tires designed to be tubed from the factory and Continental Tubeless tires are hard to miss with a huge 'Tubeless' written on them... But this is just a catalog photo shoot, often done with pre-production bikes and not always with the final specs... sometimes even with photoshoped-on parts...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoasprinkles
    I work at a LBS that sells Cannondale.

    No more System Six, Prophet, Six 13.

    No new mountain bikes, Scalpel w/ Sid. Hollowgrams are now black like Europe. Not sure what else caught my eye oh yea, Taurine now say Taurine SL so probably a weight drop there.
    X2. I also saw that the Rush line now goes like the system six: Rush 1, Rush 3, Rush 6, Rush 7.

    I also noticed that Cdale is using a lot less of the hollogram cranks and is going with other manufacturers BB30 sized cranks/BB's. I saw a ton of FSA Afterburners. The only Hollograms that I saw were the Scalpel team, the Taurine team, and a Rize 1.

    Anyone know what an SLX crank is? It is supposedly on the Rush 1 and 3. Is Shimano bringing back the old school SLX? In between LX and XT? That dosnt seem right for a BB30 Rush 1.

    Also, I think this was talked about in another post but, the 29ers only come in one color. But the 29er 1 comes with a BB30!

    I think thats everything that I noticed on first glance, if I see more, I will post it.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by amillmtb
    X2. I also saw that the Rush line now goes like the system six: Rush 1, Rush 3, Rush 6, Rush 7.

    I also noticed that Cdale is using a lot less of the hollogram cranks and is going with other manufacturers BB30 sized cranks/BB's. I saw a ton of FSA Afterburners. The only Hollograms that I saw were the Scalpel team, the Taurine team, and a Rize 1.

    Anyone know what an SLX crank is? It is supposedly on the Rush 1 and 3. Is Shimano bringing back the old school SLX? In between LX and XT? That dosnt seem right for a BB30 Rush 1.

    Also, I think this was talked about in another post but, the 29ers only come in one color. But the 29er 1 comes with a BB30!

    I think thats everything that I noticed on first glance, if I see more, I will post it.
    SLX is a new group more or less replacing LX, the LX label will now be a hybrid group or something...

    As for the Hollowgrams, it always has been a team-edition/top of the line bike spec, when did they put it on lower graded bikes?

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    SLX is a new group more or less replacing LX, the LX label will now be a hybrid group or something...

    As for the Hollowgrams, it always has been a team-edition/top of the line bike spec, when did they put it on lower graded bikes?
    SLX also replaces Hone as well as LX…

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Wombat
    The Rush has 2 carbon bikes in the range (with a lighter high modulus frame) and 2 alloy starting at 1350. They have added a Scalpel 5 with a Sid Race fork.

    Kevin
    Wow, they're already reducing the Rush offering, they have 6 models this year (7 if you consider the Rush 3 is offered with either a Lefty or Fox fork), I guess its end is comming in a couple of years or so. I assume the Rize will take a lot of Rush sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiar577
    Maybe the frame is lighter than last year but I'd say the SL designation is because of the carbon or Lefty forks. It doesn't make sense to produce 2 different carbon frames of the same model. I don't think bean counters would like it.

    the sl designation is due to the 08 rush frame being 160grams lighter than the 07 over the board due to a shaved rear triangle. The carbon front and alloy front is as far as i know identical to the 08, but the 08 rear is not - though the only difference is the shaved weight and added bridge as far as i can remember. Thus it is branded sl to differentiate between the 07 and 08

    (eh, i'm pretty sure this difference was between the 07 and 08, and not the 06 and 07...)

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    More info here ...

    don't know if this is a double post, but more info on the (euro) 2009 models can be found here..

    http://www.probike.be/article.php3?id_article=425

  95. #95
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    So if you extract the Photos from the Dealer handbooks the EU Models for 2009 are:

    Perp 1



    Perp 2



    Perp 3



    Prophet 1



    Prophet 2



    Rize 1 Carbon



    Rize 2 Carbon



    Rize 3 Carbon



    Rize 4L Alu



    Rize 4 Alu



    Rize 5 Alu



    Chase 1



    Chase 2



    Chase 3


  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by k.kazantzoglou
    So if you extract the Photos from the Dealer handbooks the EU Models for 2009 are:


    Rize 4L Alu


    Do you happen to have the specs of the Rize 4L Alu? I have been thinking about replacing my Jekyll with at Rize. I wanted a Lefty again, but in Europe the first Rize with a Lefty was the Carbon 2 and that bike was a bit over my budget. This new Rize 4L might become the replacement for my Jekyll.

  97. #97
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    No Judge in 2009 ? Can't believe.....any suggestions?

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini
    No Judge in 2009 ? Can't believe.....any suggestions?
    Nah don't think so, these bikes are part of the 2009 EU model lineup (there is not going to be a Moto available either for 2009??? )
    I think it will be marketed as a frameset only as it did for the previous 2 seasons.
    Last edited by k.kazantzoglou; 07-29-2008 at 06:58 AM.

  99. #99
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    Hopefully the Frameset will stay in their lineup!
    Its such a goood rig!!!!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcoen
    Do you happen to have the specs of the Rize 4L Alu? I have been thinking about replacing my Jekyll with at Rize. I wanted a Lefty again, but in Europe the first Rize with a Lefty was the Carbon 2 and that bike was a bit over my budget. This new Rize 4L might become the replacement for my Jekyll.
    You can find more information in this PDF

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