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  1. #1
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    Caffeine vs. Furio

    Ok, so I've been lurking for awhile, deciding which hardtail I wanted to get myself in to. After looking through all the brands and offerings, I think I am sold on the Cannondale idea. Right now I'm looking at the F4 and the Caffeine 3. I see that the Headshock and the wheelset are probably the biggest two upgrades the Caffeine 3 has over the F4. My question is about the differences between the Furio and the Caffeine frames? What make the Caffeine better? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    The caffeine frame has the same geometry as the f4, So sitting on the caffeine will feel the same as the F4. The Caffeine has a stiffer rear triangle which means there is less energy lost during pedaling due to flex. At least thats what Cannondale claims. I do not know the wait of the two frames but I would be willing to guess that the Caffeine is lighter. I hope that helps.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasond2
    Ok, so I've been lurking for awhile, deciding which hardtail I wanted to get myself in to. After looking through all the brands and offerings, I think I am sold on the Cannondale idea. Right now I'm looking at the F4 and the Caffeine 3. I see that the Headshock and the wheelset are probably the biggest two upgrades the Caffeine 3 has over the F4. My question is about the differences between the Furio and the Caffeine frames? What make the Caffeine better? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
    Your question may be better said, Caffeine vs Furio-X..(not Furio) the Caffeine replaced the Furio Frame this year in their Cross-Country hardtail line-up. (check out the bike archives, on Cannondales website) this years Bad Boy Ultra still uses the real Furio Frame.. I think the biggest difference (in Geometry) between the Furio and the Caffeine Frame is the Seat Tube length was shortened about an inch on the Caffeine Frame... Your right about the Similarities of Geometry between the Caffeine and Furio-X. they are very close.... now about deciding on one?: I would get the Caffeine. that is Cannondales latest and greatest hardtail Frame (besides the Taurine, of course)... the Furio-X as been around for a couple of years now, plus you will get a better Fork with the Caffeine.... But your Budget is your Budget.. and at the end of the day, i bet either bike will put a smile on your face.... hope it helps.
    greenhill.

  4. #4
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    Look at the way the top tube and down tube mate to the head tube. There looks to be a lot more weld area on the Caffeine frame there. This would make it stronger, or at least better looking (in my opinion).

    I just bought a Furio-framed 2002 F600 today. I can't imagine anything being stiffer in the rear than that CAAD5 frame!
    '06 Cannondale Rush 1000 4" travel 27lbs
    '04 Cannondale F600 SOBE -STOLEN!
    '96 Cannondale Uber-V 6" travel 30lbs

  5. #5
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    I understand that the Caffine is undoubtedly lighter, but is it really stiffer than the Furio, with its straight extended oval seat stays? Is the frame material the same? I know they're both 6061, but are there additional elements in the Caffine material, as there was in the past Optimo frame vs. CAAD 5.
    Speaking of CAAD5, I'm confused by RiskEverything's entry regarding a 2002 Furio(?), which you also refer to as a CAAD5?

  6. #6
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    I wrapped my F1000 Furio frame around a tree last week (yes that's right and ouch!) and have just bought a new Caffeine F1 frame (clear lacquered mmm!). The Furio frame was the stiffest frame I'd ever ridden, but Cannondale claims the new Caffeine frame is stiffer again in the rear. The seattube on the Caffeine is now 31.6 rather than the Furio's 27.2 which should add more rigidity. The Caffeine has also move from a bottom pull front derrailuer to a top pull. I know this cos it's costing me a bit to change everything over!

    I'll post a report on the differences in feel etc once I've been for a decent ride this weekend on the new frame.

    One ride on my old Furio though and I'm a Cannondale man forever!! Sooo much stiffer than my old Trek 8500!!! And better geometry too!

  7. #7
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    "Furio" is just the cool name they gave to their CAAD5 frame. It's just marketing.

    I'm glad to have the same size seat-post on both my Rush and Furio- The more interchangeable parts, the merrier! Now I just have to find another set of Shimano XT dual-control levers for the hardtail.... (ST-M766)
    '06 Cannondale Rush 1000 4" travel 27lbs
    '04 Cannondale F600 SOBE -STOLEN!
    '96 Cannondale Uber-V 6" travel 30lbs

  8. #8
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    a couple things:
    Legsburnin, I would love to see your freshly built Caffeine. would love to see some pics when she's done.

    RiskEverything, I'm confused a little about some of your postings... in 2002, the F600 uses the CAAD4 Frame, http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/02/cusa/model-2FS6.html ....the F800 was the entry level to the CAAD5 that year.
    I don't think "Furio" was just marketing either, there was a redesign in '04. Cannondale redesigned the Rear Triangle (Dual Assault), and this is the frame that got dubbed "Furio".. or "Furio Mountain" ..... http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/cusa/model-4FS6.html this frame ran from '04-'06
    and now we have another Redesign of the rear triangle for '07, the Caffeine.... seems to have tightened up the Rear Triangle by shortening the seat tube (about a inch!)

  9. #9
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    ....what has also puzzled me was the difference between the Furio and Optimo Frames for 2004-2006.. the Geometries are identicles... but, based on the pictures, it appears that the Optimo's Rear Triangle Tubing looks really Tiny..... http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/06/C...del-6FS2S.html (i suppose lighter and stiffer?) .......compared to the Beefy Dual Assault of the Furio.... http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/06/CUSA/model-6FS6.html
    I always wandered if it was a different type of Alluminum blend they used for the Optimo, "Optimo Alluminum"..... did they use Optimo Alluminum on the Furio Frame too??? maybe it's ALL Optimo Alluminum on all there bikes????

    I have the '06 F600 with some minor upgrades.... and the The Frame just seems indestructable...
    hey, Legsburning, just curious, where did your Frame fail when you hit the tree??? must must of been a pretty good hit. did you get hurt?? was the frame warranted? sounds like you had to buy it.
    greenhill.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for all of your help. Seems as though all of the Cannondale hardtail frames are great, and the Caffeine is the latest improvement. So in all of your opinions would the Caffeine 3 be the best investment for the money? I feel that with the Cannondale I am getting a better frame and fork than other brands, where as they may have slightly better component specs. In the end I would rather upgrade the smaller components with Cannondale, than upgrading a fork, and still have a lessor frame with other brands.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenhill
    ....what has also puzzled me was the difference between the Furio and Optimo Frames for 2004-2006.. the Geometries are identicles... but, based on the pictures, it appears that the Optimo's Rear Triangle Tubing looks really Tiny..... http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/06/C...del-6FS2S.html (i suppose lighter and stiffer?) .......compared to the Beefy Dual Assault of the Furio.... http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/06/CUSA/model-6FS6.html
    I always wandered if it was a different type of Alluminum blend they used for the Optimo, "Optimo Alluminum"..... did they use Optimo Alluminum on the Furio Frame too??? maybe it's ALL Optimo Alluminum on all there bikes????

    .
    There are/were three different frames involved here: the CAAD5, the Optimo, and the Furio. The CAAD5 appeared identical to the subsequent Optimo, but the Optimo was made of a different aluminum alloy that incorporated silicon and other materials, allowing more material to be shaved out during butting. Both of these frames sported the thin hour-glass shaped seat stays which allowed for added compliance.
    The Furio, on the other hand has the beefier, straight seat stays. I don't know what Furio-X is. From what I believe, the Furio is regular 6061.
    I've owned a CAAD5 and now a Furio. The CAAD5 frame was a bit lighter, especially the rear triangle. The flexy seat stays were nice for vertical compliance, yet stiff during hard pedalling. But aluminum shouldn't be allowed to flex, and the chainstay cracked on mine after under two years.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinny
    There are/were three different frames involved here: the CAAD5, the Optimo, and the Furio. The CAAD5 appeared identical to the subsequent Optimo, but the Optimo was made of a different aluminum alloy that incorporated silicon and other materials, allowing more material to be shaved out during butting. Both of these frames sported the thin hour-glass shaped seat stays which allowed for added compliance.
    The Furio, on the other hand has the beefier, straight seat stays. I don't know what Furio-X is. From what I believe, the Furio is regular 6061.
    I've owned a CAAD5 and now a Furio. The CAAD5 frame was a bit lighter, especially the rear triangle. The flexy seat stays were nice for vertical compliance, yet stiff during hard pedalling. But aluminum shouldn't be allowed to flex, and the chainstay cracked on mine after under two years.
    Thanks Spinny, that does clear some things up..... I find it interesting that both the Furio and Optimo got replaced this year with one frame now, the Caffeine..... I guess they don't feel like they need all the Alluminum Variations of hardtails anymore.... I think it would be interesting to know the exact weight difference between the Optimo, Furio, and Caffeine... I suppose were only talking grams in difference, but i would still like to know.

  13. #13
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    Jasond2- After going from an Avanti Barracuda (first Mtb), to a Trek 8500, to a Cannondale F1000 (Furio), and now to a Cannondale Caffeine F1 I can safely say the Cannondale is like a Porsche in comparison. Just quality built and fast!! I cant recommend Cannondales highly enough.

    Greenhill- Here's some shots of my built Caffeine. Keep in mind it was just the frame I bought so everything else was from my F1000.
    Here's the spec list-

    Frame- 2007 Caffeine F1 (clear Lacquered)
    Wheels- Stans rims (330 & 331grams), Aerolite spokes, Tune Kong hub (r) Lefty Omega hub (f), total weight 1360 grams
    Tyres- Michelin Comp S Light
    Cranks- XTR 970 (2007)
    Chainrings- XTR 970 (2007)
    BB- XTR 970 (2007)
    Chain- Dura-Ace
    Cassette- XTR 970 (2007)
    Bar- Bontrager XXX Lite (120grams)
    Stem- Cannondale
    Seat- SLR XP (165 grams)
    Post- current Azonic (315 grams) (temporary) ordered- KCNC Ti Pro Lite (150 grams approx)
    Fork- Lefty Speed DLR2 (Lefty Carbon SL on the Christmas list!)

    Unsure of the weight, but was 10.9kg with a Thomson Masterpiece seatpost on the Furio frame

  14. #14
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    Thanks. That's what I was hoping. Your bike looks amazing, let me know how it rides this weekend.

  15. #15
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    As you can see by the muddy tyres, I took it out just before that photo was taken yesterday. It feels more nimble than my F1000. I think the shorter seat tube (about 1 inch) is the reason. It felt more like a BMX than any MTB I've owned before. It felt stiff and fast! I was only out for an hour cos (as you can see on the pic) I forgot to mount a bottle cage... Doh!
    Will go to my friendly veterinary clinic this week and use their scales to weigh it.
    Cant wait to lose the lump of lead for a seatpost!!

  16. #16
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    thanks for sharing your pic legsburn. your bike looks really good!, she looks like she's really fast! nice job! take care.

  17. #17
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    I went with the Caffeine!! The rear triangle looks so beefy compared to the Furio frames. Feels a little stiffer. Tire clearance has also increased.

    I think it's worth the extra $$$.


  18. #18
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    New question here. tire clearence?

    Awesome color, thanks for pic. How did the tire clearence change?

  19. #19
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    Seems to me, the other difference is that the Caffeine has the top-tube cable mount while the previous frames have the front derraileur cable on the down tube. Top tube mount seems like it would be less dirty....

  20. #20
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    I haven't measured it, but I'd guess there's mabye an extra 1/2'' of clearance compared to the furio.

  21. #21
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    The cable mounts are different cos they went from a bottom pull front D to a top pull. The action is far lighter and smoother on the Caffeine. That said, I am now running XTR cables and I was running standard Shimano numbers before. Either way it's heaps better.

    Warren- Congratulations on your Caffeine purchase. I love the colour! I went with the clear finish on my F1.

  22. #22
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    I was originally looking at the F1 in clear, but once I saw the blue F2 in the flesh...



    The camera flash makes it look light blue, but it's quite dark in normal light.

  23. #23
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    I like!!
    I'm not disappointed with the colour of mine though. It takes me back to racing my Diamond Back BMX in the early 80's!

  24. #24
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    Smile Just ordered F2

    The decision is made, I ordered the caffeine F2 in blue at LBS. The biggest hurdle was convincing my wife that I need this bike, mission acomplished. I'll post pic when I get it, Thanks all!

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