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  1. #1
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    Another Lefty Question

    I'm looking for a Lefty to use on a new build. I really like the way my XLR performs on my current build and don't want to loose this performance with any of the lesser forks offered on the market.

    This bike will be a 29er and I'm looking at this fork Lefty Speed DLR2 110. It is a 2007 model. How much travel can I get out of this fork when I switch it over to be 29er capable? I would really like to get 100mm if possible.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR1 View Post
    I'm looking for a Lefty to use on a new build. I really like the way my XLR performs on my current build and don't want to loose this performance with any of the lesser forks offered on the market.

    This bike will be a 29er and I'm looking at this fork Lefty Speed DLR2 110. It is a 2007 model. How much travel can I get out of this fork when I switch it over to be 29er capable? I would really like to get 100mm if possible.
    The 2007 dampers aren't as sophisticated tuning wise as the 2011 ones, but they work just fine.

    You'll be able to get 80mm out of that fork in 29er mode. Want more, like the 100 you state? Gotta go up to a 130 or 140.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  3. #3
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    Can I upgrade the damper to the newest version? Looks like it per your thread here: Good news for older Lefty owners!

    If I did this, would I get the 90mm (or even 100mm) out of it? Is this conversion possible?
    CyclingCentralVa.org

  4. #4
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    Long story short, yes, you can upgrade to the PBR (any 2005 or new fork can) but it's damper would now be a 100mm version, stopped down to 70 for 29er. Sorry.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Long story short, yes, you can upgrade to the PBR (any 2005 or new fork can) but it's damper would now be a 100mm version, stopped down to 70 for 29er. Sorry.
    Well that is going in the wrong direction, but thanks for the help. I now have a better idea of what I need for my project.
    CyclingCentralVa.org

  6. #6
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    It is possible to mount a XLR 140mm damper in the older DLR2 Lefties (it is entierly unofficial and requires some manipulation). First one needs to modify the damper mounting tool so it can reach 1.5cm deeper into the fork. A special washer needs to be used to mount the XLR damper in the DLR2 Lefty to block movement of the inner bearing races. This washer is supplied with the XLR dampers. The flat side of the washer should face down. One needs to mount 3x1cm travel reducers on the upper damper shaft of the XLR damper to prevent fork bottom out into the tire (the same as you do if you want to convert to 29"). Check bottom out of the converted fork before you ride ! This gives aprox 110mm travel (i.e as the DLR2 was with the original DLR damper). No volume reducer to be used in the air cylinder. There will be aprox 6cm air left in the bottom of the cylinder when the fork is bottomed out, so that is ok. If one wants to make a further trick it is possible to cut 8mm of the white nylon tube on the lower XLR damper shaft (the tube just above the two black solo air rubber bumpers). This tube then becomes 41mm long instead of 49mm long. This will give aprox 120mm travel out of a old DLR2 fork (which originally is 110 mm), and the XLR remote function ! Nice. I have done this on three bikes and it works fine.

    I guess if one wants to make this a 29 Lefty you would need to add 3 further 1cm travel reducers on the upper damper shaft and you would get aprox 90mm travel.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktor2 View Post
    It is possible to mount a XLR 140mm damper in the older DLR2 Lefties (it is entierly unofficial and requires some manipulation). First one needs to modify the damper mounting tool so it can reach 1.5cm deeper into the fork. A special washer needs to be used to mount the XLR damper in the DLR2 Lefty to block movement of the inner bearing races. This washer is supplied with the XLR dampers. The flat side of the washer should face down. One needs to mount 3x1cm travel reducers on the upper damper shaft of the XLR damper to prevent fork bottom out into the tire (the same as you do if you want to convert to 29"). Check bottom out of the converted fork before you ride ! This gives aprox 110mm travel (i.e as the DLR2 was with the original DLR damper). No volume reducer to be used in the air cylinder. There will be aprox 6cm air left in the bottom of the cylinder when the fork is bottomed out, so that is ok. If one wants to make a further trick it is possible to cut 8mm of the white nylon tube on the lower XLR damper shaft (the tube just above the two black solo air rubber bumpers). This tube then becomes 41mm long instead of 49mm long. This will give aprox 120mm travel out of a old DLR2 fork (which originally is 110 mm), and the XLR remote function ! Nice. I have done this on three bikes and it works fine.

    I guess if one wants to make this a 29 Lefty you would need to add 3 further 1cm travel reducers on the upper damper shaft and you would get aprox 90mm travel.

    .......and then you have to make sure you have a good dental plan as the in- sufficient overlap of the inner and outer leg will cause you to plant your face in the dirt after a nice endo and f-up your grill....
    Oh...and then don't forget to take a pic of that Lefty after it snapped, to post it online, blame cannondale and say the Lefty sucks.......
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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  8. #8
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    Maniac,
    Would this change the overlap? The telescope was originally designed for 110mm. The new xlr cartridge is what limits the travel to 100. So of the 140mm cartridge allows it to go back to 110mm all should be good. I'm not saying people should do this, who knows how the damping gets re-tuned by doing this, but the the telescope should still be sound. Mendon, any thoughts? Now to my question, when I removed my xlr damper, what looks like a race retaining clip came out with it. I looked down at the telescope and can see a clip on the races. Is this clip that came out that "washer" that viktor2 is speaking of?

  9. #9
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    The DLR2 Lefty is not using a race retaining clip on top of the inner races. When you mount a XLR damper in a DLR Lefty you however need to put a special washer on the damper (this washer is intended specially for putting a XLR damper in a DLR fork) to ensure the races are kept in position. This washer is perfectly circular and does not look like the retaining clip washers that have four sides.

    Regarding the conern of maniac below about a reduced overlap between the inner and outer leg of the Lefty, potentially causing an issue: The overlap between the inner and outer legs of Lefties (and the headshock forks) is only determined by the length of the bearing cages (which hold the 22 needle bearings). This is not changed with the mod I describe below.

    FYI: In a German bike magazine recently Cannondale had made a mod to a XLR Max140 Lefty to 150mm (to better suit the rear travel of the new Jekyll). It is not described what/how they did this but I strongly suspect it is the same mod as I describe below.

    (PS / maniac: It may be good to take a better dental insurance for other reasons... we all get older and our teeth will get worse over time and need fixing or they fall out with time.)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumshcawheely View Post
    Mendon, any thoughts?
    I'm staying away from this one, far away.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I'm staying away from this one, far away.
    I hear you brother!

  12. #12
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    So Mendon,
    Did my xlr have an extra retainer or does this 2nd one I speak of, serve a purpose?

  13. #13
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    regarding the modification I describe below:

    I dont really care who wants to try this or who wants to "stay away from this". It is up to each and every one of us to make their own individual decisions.

    I however have no commercial interest in one way or the other. I am not running a bike shop nor a Lefty cervice centre. I am just a guy with the necessary tools that is intriged to find mechanical workarounds and extensions to the bikes I have, which are mainly Cannondales.

    I have used a XLR 140 damper in a DLR2 Lefty, converted to 120mm, for the past 6 months now and it works perfectly. I find this a great unofficial extension to the Cannondales, along the spirit of the of the über V concept, which as you know is cutting aluminium parts of the original frame, not at all endorsed by Cannondale or bike shops as these want to sell more new bikes instead.

    Of course getting a new Lefty Max XLR 140 is the best option. It is more flexible as you can easily change the travel, convert it to 29", and it is lighter than a converted DLR2 Lefty and it requires no modified tools to work on it.. if you have the money for a new Lefty Max 140 of course.

    The drawback of the mod I describe below is clearly that you need a modified tool to mount the XLR 140 damper in the DLR Lefty and you also need the damper shaft clamp tool (commonly available) to remove the air piston. Cutting the plastic tube I regard as a simple manipulation. If you dont want to go to 120mm, but stay at 110mm, you dont need to remove the air pistion and cut the plastic tube, hence no need for the shaft clamp tool.

    Perhaps you are aware of the term "not inovated here" ? If not, I suggest you look it up. I sense it in one of the replies below.

  14. #14
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumshcawheely View Post
    So Mendon,
    Did my xlr have an extra retainer or does this 2nd one I speak of, serve a purpose?
    They come with several, depending on the fork it's getting used on....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  15. #15
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    It's an xlr 100 2011 model. Green damper.

  16. #16
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    rumshcawheely:
    The XLR Lefty has two retainer clips on the top of the inner races. See the drawing on page 27 in the documentation:
    http://cdn.cannondale.com/Manuals/20...26564_0811.pdf
    See where the number KF119 is in the drawing ?

    The lower clip fits into grooves in the bearing races and prevent the races from moving up/down. If you take a flash light and check inside the fork (damper not mounted) you should be able to see it. The other clip sits on top of the first clip. Its function is to ensure that the bearing races can not move outwards and jump away from the first reatiner clip. The top clip goes around the outside of the bearing races, holding it all together. These clips do not look the same. The top clip has a bigger diameter.

    It sounds like it is the top retainer clip that came out when you removed the damper. Nothing to worry about. You need to mount this clip back by using two spokes and a flash light to check you get it in the correct position over the bearing races inside the fork before you mount the damper.

  17. #17
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    Here's the problem: The lower legs depending on the specific lefty model are all different lengths....if you put a longer stroke cartridge into a telescope structure designed for lesser travel the only thing that keeps the lefty from overextending then are the needle bearing races! So every time that "modified" lefty is fully extended the needle bearing races take all that impact! Remember those cages are made out of nylon. So if you ride it like that it's like you're doing a needle bearing reset, everytime the fork extends banging and squeezing them them to where they can just fall apart.
    Especially if you run it with a lot of pressure and/or little rebound damping.
    The only way a you can prevent this is by taking that 140 cartridge completely apart and place appropriate top out bumpers on the upper shaft, on top of the lock out shims stack/ valve assembly but even that IMO is kinda iffy.
    The overlap btw is NOT just the length of the needle bearings cages and the cartridge is what keeps the lefty structure from overextending and squeezing the needle bearings as I described above.
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdalemaniac View Post
    Here's the problem: The lower legs depending on the specific lefty model are all different lengths....if you put a longer stroke cartridge into a telescope structure designed for lesser travel the only thing that keeps the lefty from overextending then are the needle bearing races! So every time that "modified" lefty is fully extended the needle bearing races take all that impact! Remember those cages are made out of nylon. So if you ride it like that it's like you're doing a needle bearing reset, everytime the fork extends banging and squeezing them them to where they can just fall apart.
    Especially if you run it with a lot of pressure and/or little rebound damping.
    The only way a you can prevent this is by taking that 140 cartridge completely apart and place appropriate top out bumpers on the upper shaft, on top of the lock out shims stack/ valve assembly but even that IMO is kinda iffy.
    The overlap btw is NOT just the length of the needle bearings cages and the cartridge is what keeps the lefty structure from overextending and squeezing the needle bearings as I described above.
    Thanks for raising this concern, which I of course considered while I made the modification. What you say is not happening, at least not for the combination of a XLR 140 damper in a Lefty DLR2. I dont rule out it may happen if you tried other combinations of dampers and Lefties, but there is no issue with this combination. I have only analysed the XLR 140 damper in a DLR2 as this is the only combination that is relevant for me.

    Of course it would not be acceptable if the top out took place against the bearing cages ! Not only would it damage the bearing cages over time, the Solo air would also stop to function (valve not opening) as it relies on the top out taking place between the solo air piston and the rubber bumpers on the lower damper shaft.

    I have checked where the bearing cages limit the travel (let the fork extend fully without the damper installed) and then done the same with the modified damper installed. Conclusion: the top out of the Lefty is still fully contolled by the solo air mechanism and the rubber bumpers on the lower damper shaft, just like before and just like it should be. The damper internal top out would also take place far before the bearing cages can ever be hit and limit the travel. I have not modified the inside of the damper as it is not necessary. If I recall correctly there is still aprox 1cm difference between the top out with the modified damper installed and the full extension of the telescope of the Lefy (i.e. against the bearing cages, without damper installed).

    Perhaps it may be hard to belive, but the modification works perfect. I tried it on 3 different DLR2 Lefties and the result is the same on all. It did take some carefull analysis to figure out how to do it and to prevent any issue such as the one you describe, but it is enteriely possible to do.

    I leave it to each and everyone to determine if this mod can have a value to you. It requires some work. No doubt it is easier and better to buy a brand new XLR 140/120 fork.

    I saved some money getting the XLR functionality this way and I had some fun figuring out if it is possible to do this and how.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumshcawheely View Post
    It's an xlr 100 2011 model. Green damper.
    Sorry, my mistake, reading too fast, taking in too little.

    The one that came out is the "clip clip". It's job is to hold the inner races in tight against the leg. The race clip beneath it is trapped by the holes at the tops of the races, the clip clip just sits on top. And yes, it's supposed to be there.

    Viktor2, I'm sure it's possible, and as you've done it, that's plain to see. But, just because it can be done, doesn't mean it should, particularly by "the masses". It's not as though there's some Cannondale conspiracy to make folks buy new stuff, that by doing what you are, you're getting around. Designs change, and sometimes, you need to buy a new piece to get what you're looking for, be it the travel you want, the cassette with the right amount of teeth for your needs, whatever. I have a customer who discovered this "fix" on the internet that allowed him to run a larger cog on his road cassette that was available stock. Sure, it works, but he's always in the shop now, grousing about how the shifting isn't great into that gear, it's noisy once it's there, can I take another look at it, etc.

    It was possible, but now, he's dealing with the aftermath of it.

    Good on you for being creative, ride hard and enjoy it, hope it's safe in the long run. Get back to us a year or two from now, and let us know how it's going. However, coming on here and spreading info that is potentially dangerous, not well and thoroughly tested, could damage other parts of a riders rather pricey fork, etc, is just not a really great plan. How you made your cranks fit a different chainring they weren't supposed to,, a new ghetto tubeless set up, etc, is one thing, radically altering an expensive fork, so it's out of design spec, is another.

    I'm not a mod on this board, I'm not going after you, I'm simply stating that as someone who's been here for a long time, seen a lot of stuff come and go, and seen a lot of REALLY bad ideas get tossed out as "hey it worked for me, it'll work for you too", only to know that what was being suggested, will end up a miserable, expensive failure. Not that yours will or won't, but other's mislaid, well intentioned plans, have.

    I simply try to give solid info, that will be safe, and try to keep folks from spending $$ they don't have to.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  20. #20
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    Mendon, you are absolutely right to raise a warning finger, but I would not post such a suggestion if I thought this up yesterday evening and not having evaluated this by real riding. I only report it here now after more than 6 months on 3 separate bikes without troubles and only seen good function. But of course this is not any guarantee for anything. It is just a report how it worked out for me. Like I said in an earlier post, I consider this of very simlar nature as the uber V modifcations that modify the original Cannondal design. I think this forum is a information exchange for all levels. Everyone needs to make their own decsions and choises. I find this it an interesting and possible modification that I want to share with likeminded interested guys (and get constructive feedback for other options) that have an ability and tools to work on the Lefties and the dampers. I am not too concerned that some guy without any clue would try this.. the major threshold is to have the necessary tools. With the standard damper mounting tool it is not even possible to mount a XLR 140 damper into a DLR2 Lefy...
    The uber V modifiations could be done by anyone with a hacksaw, drill and a file, and can go horribly wrong... Perhaps that mod is more worrying in comparison because of this ?

    And finally, if anyone is sceptial about extending the travel of the DLR2 Lefty to 120mm, you do not need to cut the plastic tube on the damper shaft as I described. If you leave the plastic tube as orignial on the XLR 140 damper, the DLR2 Lefty will stay at 110mm, only difference that it adds the improved tunabilty of the XLR damper and the nice remote lockout.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktor2 View Post

    Perhaps it may be hard to belive, but the modification works perfect. I tried it on 3 different DLR2 Lefties and the result is the same on all. It did take some carefull analysis to figure out how to do it and to prevent any issue such as the one you describe, but it is enteriely possible to do.
    How exactly did you measure it? The cartridge will extend once it's installed because the positive air pressure will compress the solo air top out bumpers.....
    But, whatever floats your boat dude.
    Your comparison with the Uber V mod and your "Mac Gyvere'd" Lefty is really more like comparing apples with Oranges though.....
    Bottom line is if this was so simple and safe I believe that cannondale engineers would've already come out with this kind of conversion.....
    It's like these guys that run the turbo boost on their cars higher than within the manufacturer's threshold because it's so simple to , but then wonder why internal engine parts wear and fail prematurely or the transmission blows up...... ....
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by viktor2 View Post

    Perhaps it may be hard to belive, but the modification works perfect. I tried it on 3 different DLR2 Lefties and the result is the same on all. It did take some carefull analysis to figure out how to do it and to prevent any issue such as the one you describe, but it is enteriely possible to do.
    How exactly did you measure it? The cartridge will extend once it's installed because the positive air pressure will compress the solo air top out bumpers.....
    But, whatever floats your boat dude.
    Your comparison with the Uber V mod and your "Mac Gyvere'd" Lefty is really more like comparing apples with oranges though.....
    Bottom line is if this was so simple and safe to do one would believe that cannondale engineers already had come out with this kind of conversion.....
    It's like these guys that run the turbo boost on their cars higher than within the manufacturer's threshold because it's so simple to , but then wonder why internal engine parts wear and fail prematurely or the transmission blows up...... ....
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  23. #23
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    How did I measure?:
    1 / make a bearing reset (with a damper istalled of course).
    2 / remove damper
    3 / extend fork fully and measure distance from a reference point on the fork upper part to the lefty wheel axis. This is represents the physical limit of the extension of the telescope when it tops out against the bearing races.
    4 / mounted the XLR 140 damper in the DLR Lefty without airpiston or solo air bumpers.
    5 / extended fork fully and measured from the same reference point to the lefty axis. noted that this distance is smaller than the distance measured in point 3, i.e the fork is now topping out inside the damper and not towards the bearing races.
    6 / mounted the solo air and rubber bumpers on the damper shaft and mounted damper back in the fork.
    7 / put 150 psi in the fork and checked that the solo air is operating as it should.
    8 / measured from the same reference point to the lefty axis. noted that this distance is smaller than the distance measured in point 5, i.e the fork is now topping out against the solo air mechanism (i.e not topping out inside the damper, neither against the bearing cages).

    step 6-8 I did first with the original length of the plastic tube on the lower damper shaft, which gives 110mm travel of the fork. This confirmed that a XLR 140 damper in the DLR Left works.

    I then wanted to see if it was possible to take this further (this is not necessary if you dont want to). I repeated step 6-8 with a reduced length of the plastic tube, and found that it still works as described above if the plastic tube is cut to a length of 41mm, but I would not cut more than this. A plastic tube cut to 41mm gives aprox 120mm of fork travel, or probably 118mm to be exact.

    I hope this explained the process. If something was unclear, let me know !

  24. #24
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    Never one to have knee jerk reactions, without subsequently delving deeper out of curiosity, I checked with my super secret inside tech master at Cannondale.

    Turns out you are not endangering yourself by playing with bearing/race/leg overlap, that's not a huge issue in and of itself.

    However, by putting a damper in, which is too long for said structure (overlap and/or travel reducers be damned) you are effectively making the boot, your bottom out bumper.

    As you hit bottom each time, you will be hacking into your boot cutting it into pieces, which, once it goes by the wayside sufficiently, will allow the fork to travel further still, and bottom out the crown on the tire at what will likely be, some particularly inopportune moment.

    So, there it is, no passing of judgement, just user beware.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Never one to have knee jerk reactions, without subsequently delving deeper out of curiosity, I checked with my super secret inside tech master at Cannondale.

    Turns out you are not endangering yourself by playing with bearing/race/leg overlap, that's not a huge issue in and of itself.

    However, by putting a damper in, which is too long for said structure (overlap and/or travel reducers be damned) you are effectively making the boot, your bottom out bumper.

    As you hit bottom each time, you will be hacking into your boot cutting it into pieces, which, once it goes by the wayside sufficiently, will allow the fork to travel further still, and bottom out the crown on the tire at what will likely be, some particularly inopportune moment.

    So, there it is, no passing of judgement, just user beware.
    Well said. cdalmaniac out.
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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