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  1. #1
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    almost official...no 2009 Prophet?

    I've been following this board a little bit, reading about the Prophet line. "Was 2008 the final year? Will it be around for one more year; next two years?", etc. Seems nobody really knew for sure. I've been eyeballing one, so I emailed Brad from the "Ask Brad" section on C-Dale's website. This will make some of you sad , but here is his response:

    Hi, Brad. I keep hearing rumors that Cannondale plans to discontinue the Prophet, and the Rush series and concentrate on the new Rize and Moto models. Any truth to this? Thanks. Stan

    The following reply was given for your comment:

    Prophet has gone by the wayside (except in Europe), that is sad but true. The Rush will still be kickin' next year with 4 models. Get it while you can! Ride on. BRAD
    "Caught my first tube this morning....sir!"

  2. #2
    Just a flesh wound
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    Long Live the Prophet!

    Prophets have a way of bringing us to the next level of understanding by illuminating the masses. They are historically significant and totally relevant.

    '05 800 w/ many upgrades ( due to breakage and wear / not weight or performance)

    Long live the prophet!

  3. #3
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    Is this the company's responses to inflation?
    What do I know, ask the "experts"!

  4. #4
    Killer of Chains
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    No, the Rize is lighter and has the same amount of travel and geometry, and the Moto is longer travel and around the same weight.

    In order for Cannondale to sell any of the lower end Moto/Rize models, they'll have to ditch the Prophet, or else offer it at super low pricing, which they don't want to do.

    The only reason they are keeping it in Europe is because of how the economy is doing there, so people are more likely to make the purchase regardless of the relative performance of the Rize/Moto compared to the Prophet.

  5. #5
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    Ha ha....a hard core GT biker! I used to ride 96 Zaskar (see my avatar) until about 2006! I sold it and now I am not sure if that was the best thing to do. It would be nice to have a light HT with my much heavier Prophet.
    What do I know, ask the "experts"!

  6. #6
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    coming from a LBS employee there is NO Prophet next year.

  7. #7
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    The Prophet has 140mm of travel front and rear, the Rize only 130mm on both ends.

    The Rize is a downgraded version of the Prophet regarding burlyness and AM capabilities. The Rize may be a better bike for XC, but it falls very short on AM and heavy duty. That's why they came up with the Moto. But the Moto is way too FR-oriented to be a outstandingly capable Trail or AM bike. The Prophet has a foot on every side of the trail and do the job quite well on climbing and dowhills, it takes whatever you throw at it and doesn't mind be abused and still fast enough to be used on a sunday morning race.

    You think the Rize is light? Well, my Prophet is weighting only 25 lbs. And it's not build to crash and burn or from sugar-made parts. It's build tough. So The Prophet is also a light bike, lighter than any other currently released bike in the segment. An it was made in 2004, before all the crazy carbon-fiber hype.

    People will really trash me for speaking my mind on this, but neither the Rize or the Moto have the same - if any - aura (or anything you'd call it to say it has a soul) that the Prophet has. Of course I followed the haul about the release of those two bikes, I was very supportive and got very excited about Cannondale coming with new bikes, but the specs (I was waiting that they could come with a 6-inch revised Prophet with a matching Lefty) were already holding me back, but I got into it, after all, those were Cannondales. But now, there's a sour aftertaste and I'm really having a hard time digging them up. I'm trying, and no doubt they ride very good, but that's not about it. I figured out these are just new bikes to fit the new trend, not a groundbraking bike that stabilished a new trend by itself. It's a shame Cannondale can't see that. There won't be another Cannondale bike like the Prophet. There was before, but there won't be anymore. The Prophet is the last one of a kind. And you know why? Because it was made by Cannondale the way it was meant to be. It was made to be the best. Not to follow the rest.

    So I think Cannondale's moves were wrong now, but who cares? It's one man opinion, it won't make any difference. Rize and Moto are already a big success, people are lovin' them and that's good, really. Don't get me wrong, I don't want a bike to be the same forever, but I stand for heritage, and that is something they could do with the Prophet. They do it with their roadies, HTs, they did it with the Scalpel, they even snugged the Rush into the carbon fever, so why not the Prophet? It has potential to go to the next level, be a bigger and better bike and face the wannabe AM duallies batch with a hand tied to its back and win easily. But again, let it be done by others (SC, Yeti, Intense and even Scott and Trek, to mention a few) who seem to care about carrying along what they have planted and now see it growing into a better thing. I'll keep riding the bike that best describes Cannondale's heritage to me. And that's the Prophet, if you wonder.
    Last edited by Black RONIN; 07-21-2008 at 08:02 PM.

  8. #8
    mad aussie
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    I have the Cannondale 09 dealer handbook in front of me, you are correct, no Prophet.

    Kevin

  9. #9
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    well you know what, you'd better scoop one up before they're all gone.i've been in love with my prophet 1000 since day 1

  10. #10
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    Why would they still make the prophet? Its a flexy single pivot that sits between to better riding bikes. And please kill the Lefty while you're at it.

  11. #11
    LA CHÈVRE
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    While I agree it doesn't make sense to keep the Prophet with better bikes replacing it, the Lefty makes me wonder why other forks out there are still produced... the Lefty is superior in every way to me: stiffer, lighter, more precise with top notch damping...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    While I agree it doesn't make sense to keep the Prophet with better bikes replacing it, the Lefty makes me wonder why other forks out there are still produced... the Lefty is superior in every way to me: stiffer, lighter, more precise with top notch damping...

    lighter and stiffer yes. Reliable? No way. If the bearings are migrating out of place, the dampers are topping out. The PBR feels awesome but all of the guys I know have 2. One to ride while the other one is getting fixed. It would be that big of an issue if most shops could service them in house but not many are willing. And these are just my opinions. Take it as you will.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black RONIN

    . I'm trying, and no doubt they ride very good, but that's not about it. I figured out these are just new bikes to fit the new trend, not a groundbraking bike that stabilished a new trend by itself. It's a shame Cannondale can't see that. There won't be another Cannondale bike like the Prophet. There was before, but there won't be anymore. The Prophet is the last one of a kind. And you know why? Because it was made by Cannondale the way it was meant to be. It was made to be the best. Not to follow the rest.
    I'll disagree. I'm not sure when the prophet came out but I don't think it was every a groundbreaking design. Its a very very basic single pivot. In may ways very simliar to the santa cruz heckler.

    Have you extensively ridden the newer "trail bikes"? I have and think they give up nothing to the AM bikes like the heckler and Prophet. They are lighter, pedal better and handle all the abuse. I highly doubt that you or anyone else can notice 10mm of suspension travel.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, and I certainly respect yours. But I am glad to see the new designs. I enjoyed my prophet and my heckler but am completely sold on the new, more advanced pivot designs for the AM and trailbike category.

    I think the moto is a groundbreaking design. I haven't got a chance to ride one but it looks groundbreaking to me.

  14. #14
    LA CHÈVRE
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    The Lefties I have have been the most reliable pieces of suspension I ever used and so are everyone I know with Lefties, not a single issue. We may be lucky or you may be unlucky or perhaps both but so far, Lefties have a much better record to me than Manitou, Rock Shox, Marz, Fox...

    Bearing reset is a 2 minute job once in a while, I spend more time inflating tires and do it much more often so I guess they should stop making tires with air inside...

    I don't have a problem with you not liking the Lefty but, just don't get one, wishing they stop making them makes you look like a dictator, and many people are loving their Lefties, I'm not alone.
    Last edited by Dan Gerous; 07-24-2008 at 12:52 PM.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  15. #15
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    2008 Prophet

    I own a 2008 Prophet 4. I am extremely pleased with the performance of this bike. It has handled everything I have thrown at it with grace and it actually saved my life yesterday at Mathews/Winters Park from going over a cliff with the 140mm of rear travel.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black RONIN
    People will really trash me for speaking my mind on this, but neither the Rize or the Moto have the same - if any - aura (or anything you'd call it to say it has a soul) that the Prophet has. Of course I followed the haul about the release of those two bikes, I was very supportive and got very excited about Cannondale coming with new bikes, but the specs (I was waiting that they could come with a 6-inch revised Prophet with a matching Lefty) were already holding me back, but I got into it, after all, those were Cannondales. But now, there's a sour aftertaste and I'm really having a hard time digging them up. I'm trying, and no doubt they ride very good, but that's not about it. I figured out these are just new bikes to fit the new trend, not a groundbraking bike that stabilished a new trend by itself. It's a shame Cannondale can't see that. There won't be another Cannondale bike like the Prophet. There was before, but there won't be anymore. The Prophet is the last one of a kind. And you know why? Because it was made by Cannondale the way it was meant to be. It was made to be the best. Not to follow the rest.
    I have to disagree here, The Prophet is just another good bike, as is my Rush, but nothing special. In my opinion Cannondale lost its soul long before the Prophet was designed: they lost it back when the company declared bankruptcy and Montgomery was kicked out.

    I still think the bikes are better than any of the large manufacturers, that's why still buy them, but definitely I can't feel the inspiration of old. I hope it turns around in the future.

  17. #17
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    I'd only wish they had kept the Prophet going because I think it was a bike many people loved (and still love) and saw as the start of the current AM trend. Cannondale could have updated the Prophet to some point between the Rize and the Moto. Honestly, I think the Prophet is more a balanced bike than most of the current trail bikes (I also have a 08 575). The new trail bikes are amazing, I can tell by experience, but the Prophet has a feeling that you only get when you go classic - a classic motorcycle versus a new one, for example - I don't know how to explain. It is simple, but it works. The bike also feels tougher than the my 575 and feels like an AM bike instead of an oversized XC bike (what all trail bikes actually are and feel like). But that only works for those who would enjoy such ride, and for those who not, I understand why they think of the Prophet as obsolet. But it no way does mean it is.

    Most of the people who trash old bikes when new ones come out are only excited by all the fuzz around the new bike and all that hype really makes us think new things are just better, when they may actually not. We understimate the old in face of the new and we superestimate the new wondering how much better that may be over the old. This is always that way until you find that everything was good and right at place with the old. This seems to be one of these cases.

    Anyway, I agree with Dan on the Lefty. I'd only wish Cannondale could sell them for every bike in standard HT and not only for their own. I don't know, but putting the Lefty to sell on the market, making it as an option for anyone who would like to try it, would be good for everyone. It would drop the price due the increased production, and would make the Lefty support even bigger. And after that, many would turn their heads to Cannondale to discover what else they got. We've already seen so many Leftys on non-CDales it would be a logic move to make an aftermarket version available to suit standard HTs. Maybe for 2010!
    Last edited by Black RONIN; 07-24-2008 at 09:00 PM.

  18. #18
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    great marketing ploy by Cannondale:

    produce a bike that does the job of many (the Prophet), then replace it with 2 bikes (Moto and Rize) that don't do the job as well but would suggest that you buy both to still have the same options...

    phucket - I'm gonna try and get my hands on an '06 or '07 Prophet frame so that I can ride it in a few years or when my current ride breaks

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by beavola
    great marketing ploy by Cannondale:

    produce a bike that does the job of many (the Prophet), then replace it with 2 bikes (Moto and Rize) that don't do the job as well but would suggest that you buy both to still have the same options...
    Exactly.

  20. #20
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    It goes without saying that all good things must come to an end; this is also true for the Cannondale Prophet. There are many of us, myself included, that love our Prophets dearly, and wouldn't trade them for the world. Who wouldn't, they are light, simple and fun; they climb well, pedal efficiently and have the geometry and suspension to track and handle well on the descent...that's not to say it can't be improved upon or revised.

    The Rize and Moto are two amazing bikes, bikes that I think serve two more distinct purposes than the likes of the Rush, Prophet and Prophet MX. There are many trail bikers, some far enough on the xc extreme to want a bike different than the more freeride oriented individual. Are you the freerider/downhiller that wants to earn his descent or go for a trail ride with his buddys, or are you the xc racer that wants to venture into some marginally bigger hits and trail rides? I love the versatility of my Prophet MX...the adjustable geometry gives me plenty of options; I am never left feeling I need more options. That said, knowing that the Rize and Moto are on the market, and the technological advancements they have over the Prophet, it would be hard to purchase a Prophet now. The Rize and Moto are technically superior...they will pedal more efficiently and handle better=faster with greater control!

    You can't blame Cannondale for trying to evolve; that's what companies and engineers do...it's all for the better! Those that have Rush's and Prophet's should continue to shred and enjoy every pedal stroke of these fantastic bikes, and also remember that Cannondale continues to amaze riders with further technological advancements and refinement of their cycling machines. Don't feel bad that you no longer have the latest and greatest; your Prophet rides should ride as well as the day you bought it!

  21. #21
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    well, i'm back.

    First of all, i do not agree with the notion that the rize and moto are better bikes. They are more advanced in terms of materials used, but that's about it. Rear suspension designs are to some degree a matter of preference and it's a toss up between which is better imo of the simple sp design or sp where the leverage ratios are determined by linkages. The rie is more efficient than the prophet, the moto prob not. The main advantage of the prophet though is it's adjustable geometry. Sure, the rear could be stiffer - not that i've ever had a problem with it and i ride it pretty hard - and the rear suspension a bit more refined, but that's about it. That being said, the moto might be superior the mx - the bike it replaced - or prob is.

    What i believe is that the rize is what the prophet was supposed to be for a lot of people all along - a light xc/am rig - something i do not believe the prophet is. Or it can hold its own as a xc/am rig, but i feel there are other bikes out there that does that job better. The true brilliance of the prophet is to be found in the am/enduro realm.

    As it is i feel the somewhat horrible prophet sl was replaced by the rize and the mx replaced by the moto, but the prophet is yet to be comprehensivley replaced imo. So no, it's no marketing ploy, it's just replacing older models. Now the rumours that cannondale is working on replacing the prophet, not just the sl and the moto, just need to be true. The 5.5 bike is prob one of the more important bikes in any companys line up and as such cannondale need to have one. Just look at scotts new bike (eh, ok, 150mm bike that one), it looks really nice. They up the travel, not decrease it.

    Leftys suck? What a load of bull. All major produces have some problems at first with new products - can you say marz ata/sl forsk, spesh - eh, all spesh forks, totem 2 step air and so on. If your frinds are that unfortunate that theirs aren't doing too well, well, let's hope they learn to fix em themselves. If they can afford to own two, well, then stop *****ing. The pbr is the bar none stiffest and lightest 130mm fork out there and as such prob outperforms any other 130mm fork. Sure, it might cost an arm and a leg, but items that are so superior to everything else and with a limited supply usually do. The extremly limited amount of maintenance is more than worth it. It's not like fox or rs forks are maintenance free now is it?

    so yes, i feel it is def worth keeping the prophet, it needs to be a prophet mk2.

    And last but not least, the reason it is kept in europe can't be due to the economy. Barring gb, the us economy is worse for wear than most western european countries. It might just be that cannondale europe sees something that cannondale hq don't, or that the prophet fits the riding over here better. (or i heard that some moron had eqipped his rize 4 with a fox 36 and was using it in the park over here. Talk about a) destroying geometry, b) messing up leverage ratios and c) not quite getting rear suspension at what type of rear suspension does what well as well as d) not using a bike for what it was designed for.)

    so, to sum it up, the prophet might not be the latest, but it's still the greatest cannondale can offer for its intended use - a do it almost all bike.
    Last edited by klinkekule; 07-25-2008 at 04:30 AM.

  22. #22
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    I think one of the best things about the prophet is that you could get a low end prophet with a lefty for $1600 the lowest end rize ($1800) has a rockshox tora, I dont know if the tora is a bad fork but I know the lefty is far superior.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by klinkekule
    (...) the reason it [the Prophet] is kept in europe can't be due to the economy. Barring gb, the us economy is worse for wear than most western european countries. It might just be that cannondale europe sees something that cannondale hq don't, or that the prophet fits the riding over here better.

    so, to sum it up, the prophet might not be the latest, but it's still the greatest cannondale can offer for its intended use - a do it almost all bike.
    Europe gives more value to Cannondale than the US. It may sound strange, but it is true. That's why the Euro lineup is always more defined. Most new kids in the US like Specialized and don't come to Cannondale since it's not appealing enough, not even with a Lefty on (if anyone knows of something more appealing than a Lefty, please let me know ). It seems very ironic though, that many americans riders complain about bikes not being produced in the US anymore when they themselves don't consider buying a Cannondale as much as they do with Specialized. But in Europe, anyone wants a Cannondale and it has the status of a boutique bike, even being a premium bike. Also, it's really funny when you talk to someone that just arrives from Europe on how amazed he was on seeing so many Cannondales around. Guess that's why. Also, people in Europe seem to be more proud of Cannondale being US handmade than many americans do. Why's that is beyond me.

    PS. On this late statement I'm not counting any Cannondale fan or rider, since I assume EVERY Cannondale fan and rider is proud of his/her bike.

  24. #24
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    I agree that Cannondale are perceived as high end in UK but my guess would be that Cannondale have enough Prophet frames left over to satisfy Europe but not the US. Also supply of the new Rize and Moto will be limited and therefore they can sell only the high end models of these new bikes in Europe where the margins are better. Its a win win for corporate America!

  25. #25
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    I've got a Prophet that's 3 years old and is starting to get a little beat up. My Prophet has perfect geometry and rides great for my style of riding. The only things that are missing from the Prophet are a swing-link to stiffen up the rear end, and adjustable travel on the Lefty for a lower front end while climbing. I'll probably buy a replacement sometime during the coming season (nov-march in Tucson). I love Cannondales (I own 3 now, have had 2 others in the past), but the Moto looks soo cheezy. I think I'll be looking elsewhere for my next bike. Heckler and Trek Remedy are at the top of the list right now. That new Gary Fisher Roscoe looks pretty interesting too (what happened to the Fat Possum, that bike was awesome).

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