Results 1 to 49 of 49
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: go-pirates's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    589

    almost official...no 2009 Prophet?

    I've been following this board a little bit, reading about the Prophet line. "Was 2008 the final year? Will it be around for one more year; next two years?", etc. Seems nobody really knew for sure. I've been eyeballing one, so I emailed Brad from the "Ask Brad" section on C-Dale's website. This will make some of you sad , but here is his response:

    Hi, Brad. I keep hearing rumors that Cannondale plans to discontinue the Prophet, and the Rush series and concentrate on the new Rize and Moto models. Any truth to this? Thanks. Stan

    The following reply was given for your comment:

    Prophet has gone by the wayside (except in Europe), that is sad but true. The Rush will still be kickin' next year with 4 models. Get it while you can! Ride on. BRAD
    "Caught my first tube this morning....sir!"

  2. #2
    Just a flesh wound
    Reputation: Prophet Julio's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,948

    Long Live the Prophet!

    Prophets have a way of bringing us to the next level of understanding by illuminating the masses. They are historically significant and totally relevant.

    '05 800 w/ many upgrades ( due to breakage and wear / not weight or performance)

    Long live the prophet!

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ozvena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    861
    Is this the company's responses to inflation?
    What do I know, ask the "experts"!

  4. #4
    Killer of Chains
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,797
    No, the Rize is lighter and has the same amount of travel and geometry, and the Moto is longer travel and around the same weight.

    In order for Cannondale to sell any of the lower end Moto/Rize models, they'll have to ditch the Prophet, or else offer it at super low pricing, which they don't want to do.

    The only reason they are keeping it in Europe is because of how the economy is doing there, so people are more likely to make the purchase regardless of the relative performance of the Rize/Moto compared to the Prophet.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ozvena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    861
    Ha ha....a hard core GT biker! I used to ride 96 Zaskar (see my avatar) until about 2006! I sold it and now I am not sure if that was the best thing to do. It would be nice to have a light HT with my much heavier Prophet.
    What do I know, ask the "experts"!

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    65
    coming from a LBS employee there is NO Prophet next year.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    The Prophet has 140mm of travel front and rear, the Rize only 130mm on both ends.

    The Rize is a downgraded version of the Prophet regarding burlyness and AM capabilities. The Rize may be a better bike for XC, but it falls very short on AM and heavy duty. That's why they came up with the Moto. But the Moto is way too FR-oriented to be a outstandingly capable Trail or AM bike. The Prophet has a foot on every side of the trail and do the job quite well on climbing and dowhills, it takes whatever you throw at it and doesn't mind be abused and still fast enough to be used on a sunday morning race.

    You think the Rize is light? Well, my Prophet is weighting only 25 lbs. And it's not build to crash and burn or from sugar-made parts. It's build tough. So The Prophet is also a light bike, lighter than any other currently released bike in the segment. An it was made in 2004, before all the crazy carbon-fiber hype.

    People will really trash me for speaking my mind on this, but neither the Rize or the Moto have the same - if any - aura (or anything you'd call it to say it has a soul) that the Prophet has. Of course I followed the haul about the release of those two bikes, I was very supportive and got very excited about Cannondale coming with new bikes, but the specs (I was waiting that they could come with a 6-inch revised Prophet with a matching Lefty) were already holding me back, but I got into it, after all, those were Cannondales. But now, there's a sour aftertaste and I'm really having a hard time digging them up. I'm trying, and no doubt they ride very good, but that's not about it. I figured out these are just new bikes to fit the new trend, not a groundbraking bike that stabilished a new trend by itself. It's a shame Cannondale can't see that. There won't be another Cannondale bike like the Prophet. There was before, but there won't be anymore. The Prophet is the last one of a kind. And you know why? Because it was made by Cannondale the way it was meant to be. It was made to be the best. Not to follow the rest.

    So I think Cannondale's moves were wrong now, but who cares? It's one man opinion, it won't make any difference. Rize and Moto are already a big success, people are lovin' them and that's good, really. Don't get me wrong, I don't want a bike to be the same forever, but I stand for heritage, and that is something they could do with the Prophet. They do it with their roadies, HTs, they did it with the Scalpel, they even snugged the Rush into the carbon fever, so why not the Prophet? It has potential to go to the next level, be a bigger and better bike and face the wannabe AM duallies batch with a hand tied to its back and win easily. But again, let it be done by others (SC, Yeti, Intense and even Scott and Trek, to mention a few) who seem to care about carrying along what they have planted and now see it growing into a better thing. I'll keep riding the bike that best describes Cannondale's heritage to me. And that's the Prophet, if you wonder.
    Last edited by Black RONIN; 07-21-2008 at 09:02 PM.

  8. #8
    mad aussie
    Reputation: Flying Wombat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,129
    I have the Cannondale 09 dealer handbook in front of me, you are correct, no Prophet.

    Kevin

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MTB RPG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    52
    well you know what, you'd better scoop one up before they're all gone.i've been in love with my prophet 1000 since day 1

  10. #10
    sinner
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    226
    Why would they still make the prophet? Its a flexy single pivot that sits between to better riding bikes. And please kill the Lefty while you're at it.

  11. #11
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    While I agree it doesn't make sense to keep the Prophet with better bikes replacing it, the Lefty makes me wonder why other forks out there are still produced... the Lefty is superior in every way to me: stiffer, lighter, more precise with top notch damping...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  12. #12
    sinner
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    While I agree it doesn't make sense to keep the Prophet with better bikes replacing it, the Lefty makes me wonder why other forks out there are still produced... the Lefty is superior in every way to me: stiffer, lighter, more precise with top notch damping...

    lighter and stiffer yes. Reliable? No way. If the bearings are migrating out of place, the dampers are topping out. The PBR feels awesome but all of the guys I know have 2. One to ride while the other one is getting fixed. It would be that big of an issue if most shops could service them in house but not many are willing. And these are just my opinions. Take it as you will.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dascro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Black RONIN

    . I'm trying, and no doubt they ride very good, but that's not about it. I figured out these are just new bikes to fit the new trend, not a groundbraking bike that stabilished a new trend by itself. It's a shame Cannondale can't see that. There won't be another Cannondale bike like the Prophet. There was before, but there won't be anymore. The Prophet is the last one of a kind. And you know why? Because it was made by Cannondale the way it was meant to be. It was made to be the best. Not to follow the rest.
    I'll disagree. I'm not sure when the prophet came out but I don't think it was every a groundbreaking design. Its a very very basic single pivot. In may ways very simliar to the santa cruz heckler.

    Have you extensively ridden the newer "trail bikes"? I have and think they give up nothing to the AM bikes like the heckler and Prophet. They are lighter, pedal better and handle all the abuse. I highly doubt that you or anyone else can notice 10mm of suspension travel.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, and I certainly respect yours. But I am glad to see the new designs. I enjoyed my prophet and my heckler but am completely sold on the new, more advanced pivot designs for the AM and trailbike category.

    I think the moto is a groundbreaking design. I haven't got a chance to ride one but it looks groundbreaking to me.

  14. #14
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,435
    The Lefties I have have been the most reliable pieces of suspension I ever used and so are everyone I know with Lefties, not a single issue. We may be lucky or you may be unlucky or perhaps both but so far, Lefties have a much better record to me than Manitou, Rock Shox, Marz, Fox...

    Bearing reset is a 2 minute job once in a while, I spend more time inflating tires and do it much more often so I guess they should stop making tires with air inside...

    I don't have a problem with you not liking the Lefty but, just don't get one, wishing they stop making them makes you look like a dictator, and many people are loving their Lefties, I'm not alone.
    Last edited by Dan Gerous; 07-24-2008 at 01:52 PM.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4

    2008 Prophet

    I own a 2008 Prophet 4. I am extremely pleased with the performance of this bike. It has handled everything I have thrown at it with grace and it actually saved my life yesterday at Mathews/Winters Park from going over a cliff with the 140mm of rear travel.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    554
    Quote Originally Posted by Black RONIN
    People will really trash me for speaking my mind on this, but neither the Rize or the Moto have the same - if any - aura (or anything you'd call it to say it has a soul) that the Prophet has. Of course I followed the haul about the release of those two bikes, I was very supportive and got very excited about Cannondale coming with new bikes, but the specs (I was waiting that they could come with a 6-inch revised Prophet with a matching Lefty) were already holding me back, but I got into it, after all, those were Cannondales. But now, there's a sour aftertaste and I'm really having a hard time digging them up. I'm trying, and no doubt they ride very good, but that's not about it. I figured out these are just new bikes to fit the new trend, not a groundbraking bike that stabilished a new trend by itself. It's a shame Cannondale can't see that. There won't be another Cannondale bike like the Prophet. There was before, but there won't be anymore. The Prophet is the last one of a kind. And you know why? Because it was made by Cannondale the way it was meant to be. It was made to be the best. Not to follow the rest.
    I have to disagree here, The Prophet is just another good bike, as is my Rush, but nothing special. In my opinion Cannondale lost its soul long before the Prophet was designed: they lost it back when the company declared bankruptcy and Montgomery was kicked out.

    I still think the bikes are better than any of the large manufacturers, that's why still buy them, but definitely I can't feel the inspiration of old. I hope it turns around in the future.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    I'd only wish they had kept the Prophet going because I think it was a bike many people loved (and still love) and saw as the start of the current AM trend. Cannondale could have updated the Prophet to some point between the Rize and the Moto. Honestly, I think the Prophet is more a balanced bike than most of the current trail bikes (I also have a 08 575). The new trail bikes are amazing, I can tell by experience, but the Prophet has a feeling that you only get when you go classic - a classic motorcycle versus a new one, for example - I don't know how to explain. It is simple, but it works. The bike also feels tougher than the my 575 and feels like an AM bike instead of an oversized XC bike (what all trail bikes actually are and feel like). But that only works for those who would enjoy such ride, and for those who not, I understand why they think of the Prophet as obsolet. But it no way does mean it is.

    Most of the people who trash old bikes when new ones come out are only excited by all the fuzz around the new bike and all that hype really makes us think new things are just better, when they may actually not. We understimate the old in face of the new and we superestimate the new wondering how much better that may be over the old. This is always that way until you find that everything was good and right at place with the old. This seems to be one of these cases.

    Anyway, I agree with Dan on the Lefty. I'd only wish Cannondale could sell them for every bike in standard HT and not only for their own. I don't know, but putting the Lefty to sell on the market, making it as an option for anyone who would like to try it, would be good for everyone. It would drop the price due the increased production, and would make the Lefty support even bigger. And after that, many would turn their heads to Cannondale to discover what else they got. We've already seen so many Leftys on non-CDales it would be a logic move to make an aftermarket version available to suit standard HTs. Maybe for 2010!
    Last edited by Black RONIN; 07-24-2008 at 10:00 PM.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: beavola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    124
    great marketing ploy by Cannondale:

    produce a bike that does the job of many (the Prophet), then replace it with 2 bikes (Moto and Rize) that don't do the job as well but would suggest that you buy both to still have the same options...

    phucket - I'm gonna try and get my hands on an '06 or '07 Prophet frame so that I can ride it in a few years or when my current ride breaks

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by beavola
    great marketing ploy by Cannondale:

    produce a bike that does the job of many (the Prophet), then replace it with 2 bikes (Moto and Rize) that don't do the job as well but would suggest that you buy both to still have the same options...
    Exactly.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    277
    It goes without saying that all good things must come to an end; this is also true for the Cannondale Prophet. There are many of us, myself included, that love our Prophets dearly, and wouldn't trade them for the world. Who wouldn't, they are light, simple and fun; they climb well, pedal efficiently and have the geometry and suspension to track and handle well on the descent...that's not to say it can't be improved upon or revised.

    The Rize and Moto are two amazing bikes, bikes that I think serve two more distinct purposes than the likes of the Rush, Prophet and Prophet MX. There are many trail bikers, some far enough on the xc extreme to want a bike different than the more freeride oriented individual. Are you the freerider/downhiller that wants to earn his descent or go for a trail ride with his buddys, or are you the xc racer that wants to venture into some marginally bigger hits and trail rides? I love the versatility of my Prophet MX...the adjustable geometry gives me plenty of options; I am never left feeling I need more options. That said, knowing that the Rize and Moto are on the market, and the technological advancements they have over the Prophet, it would be hard to purchase a Prophet now. The Rize and Moto are technically superior...they will pedal more efficiently and handle better=faster with greater control!

    You can't blame Cannondale for trying to evolve; that's what companies and engineers do...it's all for the better! Those that have Rush's and Prophet's should continue to shred and enjoy every pedal stroke of these fantastic bikes, and also remember that Cannondale continues to amaze riders with further technological advancements and refinement of their cycling machines. Don't feel bad that you no longer have the latest and greatest; your Prophet rides should ride as well as the day you bought it!

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    552
    well, i'm back.

    First of all, i do not agree with the notion that the rize and moto are better bikes. They are more advanced in terms of materials used, but that's about it. Rear suspension designs are to some degree a matter of preference and it's a toss up between which is better imo of the simple sp design or sp where the leverage ratios are determined by linkages. The rie is more efficient than the prophet, the moto prob not. The main advantage of the prophet though is it's adjustable geometry. Sure, the rear could be stiffer - not that i've ever had a problem with it and i ride it pretty hard - and the rear suspension a bit more refined, but that's about it. That being said, the moto might be superior the mx - the bike it replaced - or prob is.

    What i believe is that the rize is what the prophet was supposed to be for a lot of people all along - a light xc/am rig - something i do not believe the prophet is. Or it can hold its own as a xc/am rig, but i feel there are other bikes out there that does that job better. The true brilliance of the prophet is to be found in the am/enduro realm.

    As it is i feel the somewhat horrible prophet sl was replaced by the rize and the mx replaced by the moto, but the prophet is yet to be comprehensivley replaced imo. So no, it's no marketing ploy, it's just replacing older models. Now the rumours that cannondale is working on replacing the prophet, not just the sl and the moto, just need to be true. The 5.5 bike is prob one of the more important bikes in any companys line up and as such cannondale need to have one. Just look at scotts new bike (eh, ok, 150mm bike that one), it looks really nice. They up the travel, not decrease it.

    Leftys suck? What a load of bull. All major produces have some problems at first with new products - can you say marz ata/sl forsk, spesh - eh, all spesh forks, totem 2 step air and so on. If your frinds are that unfortunate that theirs aren't doing too well, well, let's hope they learn to fix em themselves. If they can afford to own two, well, then stop *****ing. The pbr is the bar none stiffest and lightest 130mm fork out there and as such prob outperforms any other 130mm fork. Sure, it might cost an arm and a leg, but items that are so superior to everything else and with a limited supply usually do. The extremly limited amount of maintenance is more than worth it. It's not like fox or rs forks are maintenance free now is it?

    so yes, i feel it is def worth keeping the prophet, it needs to be a prophet mk2.

    And last but not least, the reason it is kept in europe can't be due to the economy. Barring gb, the us economy is worse for wear than most western european countries. It might just be that cannondale europe sees something that cannondale hq don't, or that the prophet fits the riding over here better. (or i heard that some moron had eqipped his rize 4 with a fox 36 and was using it in the park over here. Talk about a) destroying geometry, b) messing up leverage ratios and c) not quite getting rear suspension at what type of rear suspension does what well as well as d) not using a bike for what it was designed for.)

    so, to sum it up, the prophet might not be the latest, but it's still the greatest cannondale can offer for its intended use - a do it almost all bike.
    Last edited by klinkekule; 07-25-2008 at 05:30 AM.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Duncan1104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,176
    I think one of the best things about the prophet is that you could get a low end prophet with a lefty for $1600 the lowest end rize ($1800) has a rockshox tora, I dont know if the tora is a bad fork but I know the lefty is far superior.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by klinkekule
    (...) the reason it [the Prophet] is kept in europe can't be due to the economy. Barring gb, the us economy is worse for wear than most western european countries. It might just be that cannondale europe sees something that cannondale hq don't, or that the prophet fits the riding over here better.

    so, to sum it up, the prophet might not be the latest, but it's still the greatest cannondale can offer for its intended use - a do it almost all bike.
    Europe gives more value to Cannondale than the US. It may sound strange, but it is true. That's why the Euro lineup is always more defined. Most new kids in the US like Specialized and don't come to Cannondale since it's not appealing enough, not even with a Lefty on (if anyone knows of something more appealing than a Lefty, please let me know ). It seems very ironic though, that many americans riders complain about bikes not being produced in the US anymore when they themselves don't consider buying a Cannondale as much as they do with Specialized. But in Europe, anyone wants a Cannondale and it has the status of a boutique bike, even being a premium bike. Also, it's really funny when you talk to someone that just arrives from Europe on how amazed he was on seeing so many Cannondales around. Guess that's why. Also, people in Europe seem to be more proud of Cannondale being US handmade than many americans do. Why's that is beyond me.

    PS. On this late statement I'm not counting any Cannondale fan or rider, since I assume EVERY Cannondale fan and rider is proud of his/her bike.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    330
    I agree that Cannondale are perceived as high end in UK but my guess would be that Cannondale have enough Prophet frames left over to satisfy Europe but not the US. Also supply of the new Rize and Moto will be limited and therefore they can sell only the high end models of these new bikes in Europe where the margins are better. Its a win win for corporate America!

  25. #25
    Professional Bad Ass
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    461
    I've got a Prophet that's 3 years old and is starting to get a little beat up. My Prophet has perfect geometry and rides great for my style of riding. The only things that are missing from the Prophet are a swing-link to stiffen up the rear end, and adjustable travel on the Lefty for a lower front end while climbing. I'll probably buy a replacement sometime during the coming season (nov-march in Tucson). I love Cannondales (I own 3 now, have had 2 others in the past), but the Moto looks soo cheezy. I think I'll be looking elsewhere for my next bike. Heckler and Trek Remedy are at the top of the list right now. That new Gary Fisher Roscoe looks pretty interesting too (what happened to the Fat Possum, that bike was awesome).

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sonicreducer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    60
    i'm in europe, portugal to narrow things down , and the first bike i had under eye about a 8 months ago when i started looking , was a prophet , a beautiful prophet, and i was lucky in a group ride with a few people , to try one before buying, and it has just such a bulk bike , simply beautiful, but..... it felt heavy , very heavy for what i was wondering doing with it , just some " aggressive xc" i do allot of climbing , and i just wanted something to have fun in the trails, and single tracks and that is fast, downhill, and in rough terrain, prohphet , looked like the way to go, but by talking with my cousin( wich has about 15 years of ridding mountain bike), i made me see that rush maybe was the way to go, so i ordered rush a lither stiffer bike , but kept looking at the prophet ... with that sensation... humm maybe i should gone with my gut .... then the rize came up, and the rush was out of stock in warehouse ,i immediately fell in love with the RIZE , so i ordered one , and it just fit's me perfectly , it the most all around bike i have ever ridden, it climbs so well and so much better that the prophet i tried, no bobbing on climbing and rolling , its very cool..... i wish that everybody could be happy, but .... it was a good evolution to the rize, coming from the prophet, because the RIZE just feels like there is a never-ending rear travel. so hail to the prophet, to every evolution it was made by her , but just , try the RIZE with an open mind and you'll see it's a great bike.

    and it's true us europeans we do love cannondale , in my country we say: " I'm not ridding a bike I'm ridding a cannodale " just for you to see how much we love it
    Sai da cama e vem para a lama !!!!!

  27. #27
    a.k.a.-Cranial Disharmony
    Reputation: ryoninct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    238
    Prophet will be back or a similar replacement. Big mistake to leave the 140mm market vacant. Even Cannondale knows it. They're still making frames for Europe because they threatened to burn villages. It'll be back especially considering how slowly the Rise and Moto are selling. I can't give the Moto away at my shop. I have it from a several very reliable sources within Bethel that action plans are being developed to figure out how to back out of this.

    You never know what you got till it's gone. Ronin is right.
    "Life sucks, get a fu*king helmet, okay?" - Dennis Leary

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5,220
    Quote Originally Posted by itchyjesus
    Why would they still make the prophet? Its a flexy single pivot that sits between to better riding bikes. And please kill the Lefty while you're at it.
    Have you ridden a Lefty Max and then a similar travel fork on the same trail? I mean a trail that is not butter smooth..........
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  29. #29
    a.k.a.-Cranial Disharmony
    Reputation: ryoninct's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    238
    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg
    Have you ridden a Lefty Max and then a similar travel fork on the same trail? I mean a trail that is not butter smooth..........
    I live in Connecticut and ride some of the buffest singletrack in the country. I got rid of my Lefty Max for a Pike 454 and never looked back.

    Not even a comparison in ride quality.

    I'm no Lefty hater as I still race with an ELO on my hardtail but for AM applications, you can do much better. Lefty is stiff and light but not smooth, low maint. or easily adjustable.

    Pike climbs better, goes down faster and is easy to adjust on the fly.
    "Life sucks, get a fu*king helmet, okay?" - Dennis Leary

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    552
    Quote Originally Posted by ryoninct
    I have it from a several very reliable sources within Bethel that action plans are being developed to figure out how to back out of this.
    hm, please elaborate.

    And yes, of course the rize is better at xc, be it agressive or whatever, than the prophet. It is what it is designed for, and to flip the coin, not what the prophet was designed for imo. I'm glad that you're loving your rixe though, it's prob a sweet bike.
    Last edited by klinkekule; 07-29-2008 at 01:07 PM.

  31. #31
    S&G CREW
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    267
    Quote Originally Posted by ryoninct
    I live in Connecticut and ride some of the buffest singletrack in the country. I got rid of my Lefty Max for a Pike 454 and never looked back.

    Not even a comparison in ride quality.

    I'm no Lefty hater as I still race with an ELO on my hardtail but for AM applications, you can do much better. Lefty is stiff and light but not smooth, low maint. or easily adjustable.

    Pike climbs better, goes down faster and is easy to adjust on the fly.
    I just put a Pike 454 air on my bike and i like the lefty but man the pike is all around way better guys with the lefty are missing out in greatly improving there bikes.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: milpat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    44
    I've just see 2009's collection with still the pophet in Europe two models with the pike and one of them is aroud 1400 €

    more details : http://www.probike.be/article.php3?id_article=426

  33. #33
    THELAND photographer
    Reputation: CdaleProph6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    460
    Quote Originally Posted by itchyjesus
    Why would they still make the prophet? Its a flexy single pivot that sits between to better riding bikes. And please kill the Lefty while you're at it.

    Come on man...the lefty is a great thing...ive been riding it for 4 years now and have Zero complaints....super simple to work on and super stiff.....dont hate...appreciate

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    749
    HuH, plans to back out of what??! Were did you hear that twaddle?

    The Prophet received the same flack and crit when it was introduced in 2003. People who loved the Jekyll (remember that) slated the Prophet as being overkill, too long travel and they hated the adjustable geometry.

    3yrs later it started to catch on, riders had caught onto the versatility of the prophet and realised that there was a gem of bike that had een sitting under their noses. This fact onlybecame known once it was available with a conventional fork... funny that.

    The Rize and Moto are new products that are designed to answer the growin needs of riders who want to pedal a bike up a hill and blast down the other Side.
    The Rize is geared toward teh guy or gal who dabbles in the odd race but also rides bike parks and trails, the people that just want to get out there all day over hill and into valley. It does this better than the Prophet without the complexity of adjustable geometry. It pedals like a Scalpel, yet feels like a Rush while being lighter than a Prophet or a Moto.
    It responds to the steering like a Rush. If the Rize replaces a bike, it will replace the Rush.

    The Moto is for the person who prefers the black diamond sort of trial and spends more time at bike parks but wants to ride the bike to the summit and back down.
    For the Chair lift brigade there is the Perpetrator and the Judge.For the XC race crowd there is th e Scalpel. for Marathon and XC there is the Rush.

    Currently the only bike that is sort of Schitzo is the Rush. it looks out of place at tmoment. It sits between the Scalpel and the Rize but either of those bike could do what the Rush does.

    Does Cannondale need a 150mm travel bike? Absolutely not. The 160mm Moto does that job.
    Does Cannondale need a 140mm travel bike? Absolutely not. The 130mm Rize does that job.
    It takes a while for the consumer to come around and understand the manufacturers point of view. Buyers are too fixated on the amount of travel when that means very little. What you need to understand is what the bike is engineered for and how do get it optimised for the way you want to ride. the amount of travel tells you nothing, absolutely nothing.

    Look at the range:

    Scalpel: XC Race: 110/100
    Rush: XC Race/Marathon: 110/110
    Rize: Marathon/Trail/ : 130/130
    Moto: Trail/Enduro ; 160/160
    Perp: FR/DH: 180/200
    Judge: DH/FR: 220/220

    Six models cover everytype of riding you want. Why does there need to be a 10mm increment between disciplines? Who made this rule? I don't believe in it and it seems Cannondale don't either. Thats why I ride Cannondale. Rather dictate fashion than follow it.

    AS for Lefty and bearing migration, thats easily fixed at the next service through fitting thicker bearing race plates.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    552
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad
    .... than the Prophet without the complexity of adjustable geometry.... If the Rize replaces a bike, it will replace the Rush.

    Does Cannondale need a 150mm travel bike? Absolutely not. The 160mm Moto does that job.
    Does Cannondale need a 140mm travel bike? Absolutely not. The 130mm Rize does that job.
    It takes a while for the consumer to come around and understand the manufacturers point of view. Buyers are too fixated on the amount of travel when that means very little. What you need to understand is what the bike is engineered for and how do get it optimised for the way you want to ride. the amount of travel tells you nothing, absolutely nothing.

    Look at the range:

    Scalpel: XC Race: 110/100
    Rush: XC Race/Marathon: 110/110
    Rize: Marathon/Trail/ : 130/130
    Moto: Trail/Enduro ; 160/160
    Perp: FR/DH: 180/200
    Judge: DH/FR: 220/220

    Six models cover everytype of riding you want. Why does there need to be a 10mm increment between disciplines? Who made this rule? I don't believe in it and it seems Cannondale don't either. Thats why I ride Cannondale. Rather dictate fashion than follow it.
    first of all, i've made similar points in the original rise/moto post, the post from when they were released. My conclusions are somewhat different though. While the Rize prob is a brilliant xc/am bike and the moto prob an excellent am/enduro bike i still feel the dropping of the prophet creates a void in Cannondale lineup. For a guy who states that the amount of travel is not very important the reason behind this should be abundantly clear, besides why do you presume travel is the main/only argument against the new bikes/for the prophet? Sure, a modified rush might potentially be a fine 4x bike, or a modified Rize for that matter. For all i know a modified Moto might be fine as well. It's a matter of geo though. Personally i find the Rize to have to steep a head angle to even be an alternative for my use as well as it having too low ac height. While the moto might be better suited i still feel a prophet or a prophet replacement would do a far better job as a nimble little throw around am rig, not as my (am) big rig. No, i am not saying the prophet is the ultimate 4x machine, a prophet with a 100mm front and rear is prob terrible. Stock in the fr setting it is prob better than anything else Cannondale can dish up in the full suss category.

    A lot of other bike manufactures, say commencal or santa cruz have many bikes in this category too choose from. Commencal have a 100mm xc frame, a 100mm 4x frame, a 100mm xc/am entry frame, a 140mm am frame, a 160mm am/enduro frame and a 160mm minidh frame. Cannondale has, with the chop of the prophet 4; the scalpel, rush, rize and moto. In between there's a sc with a 4+2 set up where two different rear suspension set up makes for more models, though they aren't that much different. So, if one stretches it a bit, both commie and sc has 5 bikes in the 100mm to 160mm full suss category where each and every one has a different ideal use and customer. Whatever made cannondale think their bikes were that much better that they could do with only 4? The fact of the matter is that the prophet is less of a fantastic 140mm xc/am rig, i believe the rize does this better, than it is a fantastic short travel am/enduro plaything. Hel, for all i know the moto might boast similar credentials, but until i try it i am highly sceptical.

    So do cannondale need a 140mm bike or a 150mm bike? Well, no not really, by they sure as hel need a slacker low travel bike. Nobody in their right mind would seriously contemplate putting a 100mm fork on a nomad and say, behold, it's the new 4x rig. That argument kinda bites itself in the as s as a lot of people spec em with pikes, thus 140mm forks. Is the solution then to ride the moto with a pike or similar 140mm fork? Well, no, it messes up the geo.

    Complexity of adjustable travel? You gotta be kidding me. The concept might be a bit hard to phantom by a 5 year old blind kid with downs, but most riders will if they but try it after a brief explanation by the salesperson (or the basic info search when contemplating buying a new bike) immidiately see the benefit, though provided they have the need. I dunno where you fit in in that specter, but i hope this was readily apparent to you too

    That being said, i recently vowed never again to buy a 140mm bike after taking a commencal meta 5.52 out for a spin down a reeeeeaaaaally steep and highly technical trail. The next day when i readjusted the fork in particular - dropped 15psi of pressure which transformed the ride from crap/ok to really good - and went down the same mountain by a trail more suited the bike i somewhat regretted the words. One of my main points against a 160mm am rig is that most people or most kinds of riding hardly requires 160mm of travel. 140mm does just fine. For a great rider a 100mm 4x bike is prob more than enough to rip the mountain to pieces - alas most of us aren't that talented. My beef with the commencal after the other day was the 5% were the geo felt wrong -mainly too low in the front, too steep head angle and not enough standover. Remember, this is a highly acclaimed bike that is particularly acclaimed for its descending abilities. I felt it fell short of my beloved prophet. Do i believe the rize handles as well as either of these two bikes on the downhills? No, i do not. So why on earth would i get one? Do i believe the moto would do as good? Yes, prob better, though that's a matter of travel. A good with deent geo 160mm bike will descend better than a good with decent geo 140mm bike most of the time provided the weight is comparable.

    Another main point against 6inchers over 5.5 as am rigs is weight vs price - aka bang for buck. They simply weigh too much or cost too much. A 5.5er is for now cheaper and thus as they can handle most riding conditions is simply a better choice for most people. I'm not much concerned with the lowest end prophet for instance which is heavier than.. eh, a lot. Too state that travels tells you nothing is truth with some serious modifications, or plain wrong. Show me a 100mm dh bike or 200mm dh bike? Well, that might be besides the point, but you get the general idea. The point though is if i was to get a replacement for the prophet for my use the last thing i would consider is a bike with less travel. Less? You gotta be kidding me.

    To end this rather long reply on a serious note, i rather ride what is right for me than be much concerned about what is fashionable or try to be ahead of or dictate the trends. Nobody made a rule concerning travel length inbetween models, it has just evolved that way as it is what is natural. It's just a question of whether cannondale made a mistake by in effect if not replacing than making a rush with more travel and a replacing the mx, but somewhere a long the way forgot about the people who rode the prophet for it's light weight, slack headangle, limited travel and downhill abilities. I kinda feel that they did. I guess i will have to try a moto to find out if i am mistaken

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad
    The Prophet received the same flack and crit when it was introduced in 2003. People who loved the Jekyll (remember that) slated the Prophet as being overkill, too long travel and they hated the adjustable geometry.

    3yrs later it started to catch on, riders had caught onto the versatility of the prophet and realised that there was a gem of bike that had been sitting under their noses. This fact onlybecame known once it was available with a conventional fork... funny that.
    The real funny thing is that after the bike catched up, as you stated, Cannondale just dropped the model off. Sorry, don't like the Rize, it's way under what an AM bike is supposed to be (and also way under what the Jekyll used to be). Now if you say the Rize is a XC bike, it's just as silly, because I can get a real XC bike instead (for that you can get either a Scalpel or a Rush, two pre-existent bikes that are there before the Rize show up). The Rize is not only underated as an AM and XC bike, it is obsolet. Also don't like the Moto, don't like the design and though the Hatchet link may prove to be a good thing, it's nothing more than a float link like Trek's Full Floater, so the Moto is not revolutionary at all (plus, sub-30lbs 6+ inches bikes are all around today.

    I won't comment about it anymore, really. Just like me, a lot of people wanted the Prophet to keep going, but it will not and I got over it. There's a lot of other bikes which can take the place of the Prophet, travel and/or capability-wise. And not only take the Prophet's place, but the Rize's and Moto's as well. Said that, for me Cannondale bikes now only exists in the form of hardtails and roadies. And of course, in the form of my Prophet.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    84
    It's clear from your post that you have little to no seat time on the rize, in the conditions your describing it is a lighter, stiffer and far more dynamic prophet, the 10mm your referring to is not only negated, it's surpassed by the overall more efficient design of the rize, ironically, I'm using the same setup on my rize as my prophet and ironically, I'm using the same amount of visual travel.
    I still love my prophet and it will still get a lot of use, but this rize is such a big step forward in every facet of the game, the spec sheet says 10mm less but when you ride it you'll swear it's the other way around, this thing is another benchmark, just like the prophet was 5 yrs ago.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    Never mind.
    Last edited by Black RONIN; 08-02-2008 at 10:20 PM.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by OMEGANOX
    It's clear from your post that you have little to no seat time on the rize, in the conditions your describing it is a lighter, stiffer and far more dynamic prophet, the 10mm your referring to is not only negated, it's surpassed by the overall more efficient design of the rize, ironically, I'm using the same setup on my rize as my prophet and ironically, I'm using the same amount of visual travel.
    I still love my prophet and it will still get a lot of use, but this rize is such a big step forward in every facet of the game, the spec sheet says 10mm less but when you ride it you'll swear it's the other way around, this thing is another benchmark, just like the prophet was 5 yrs ago.
    You're right. I really haven't riden either a Rize or a Moto yet. I'm only taking the specs and their intended use as matters, it's true. Although I'm not sure what you meant by "same amount of visual travel", I beg to differ the Rize can be a Prophet replacement, neither the Moto, and that I can assume not only by the specs alone, but by their category definition as well. No doubt the Rize may be a good bike (and I really think it is, seriously), but it's not an evolutionary step from the Prophet. It's a new bike to cope with the new Trail bike trend (like the Stumpjumper) to satisfy people who feel a bike like the Prophet is more than their legs can take or to give some forgiveness to XC maniacs on technical sections, what BTW defies all the purpose of pure XC riding. The Moto is another story. It's way up there, so it goes against Nomads, Ransoms, etc. But without a Prophet, there's no bike in Cannondale's lineup to go face to face against the BLT2, Heckler, 575, new Tracer, Enduro SL and so on. I'm a rider in this category and if I have to move over to a new category, I'll move up and not down. For me, a bike like the Rize is indeed obsolet, because it falls under my needs, just that. If Cannondale ever come with a real 5.5-6 inches AM bike to replace the Prophet, I'll start looking at Cannondale brochures again. In the meanwhile, I'm having fun with my Prophet.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,579
    the rize is marketed to the same niche as the prophet. Go back and watch the old prophet videos (somewhere on youtube), then read the marketing-speak on the rize. If cannondale is marketing them the same, then you can believe that the rize is replacing the prophet. I would only expect the prophet to stay around for the sake of a lower price tag. I have ridden both and personally I prefer the rize in every scenario I have encountered. Climbs, descents, handling (big upgrade here). Like others have said, don't fixate on the numbers of the travel. Because the rize has a rising rate linkage as opposed to the falling rate of the prophet, it has a more "bottomless" feel to it. Also, the non-lefty models come with 140mm up front. I won't be crying the prophet it killed off, and we will know for sure soon I guess.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by crazylax42
    the rize is marketed to the same niche as the prophet. Go back and watch the old prophet videos (somewhere on youtube), then read the marketing-speak on the rize. If cannondale is marketing them the same, then you can believe that the rize is replacing the prophet. I would only expect the prophet to stay around for the sake of a lower price tag. I have ridden both and personally I prefer the rize in every scenario I have encountered. Climbs, descents, handling (big upgrade here). Like others have said, don't fixate on the numbers of the travel. Because the rize has a rising rate linkage as opposed to the falling rate of the prophet, it has a more "bottomless" feel to it. Also, the non-lefty models come with 140mm up front. I won't be crying the prophet it killed off, and we will know for sure soon I guess.
    You guys know it better than I do. I guess I'll have to buy the fact the Rize is simply better than the Prophet, and to be honest, I'm starting to believe it is better, since many are stating it. I'll try to test one when it comes to my shop. But I still don't like the way it looks, it really hasn't got me - both actually, Rize and Moto - so I think I'll have to deal with it too, although I know now neither the Rize and the Moto are in my top choice list for a future bike - I don't even think they will ever make it to this list at all - so whatever. But I'm sorry the Prophet was dropped off like that. It had a lot of potential to evolve. But if the Rize is better, it is better, period. That can only be a positive thing.
    Last edited by Black RONIN; 08-03-2008 at 11:37 PM.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    517
    This is change for the sake of earnings. Im sure the Rise and Moto are great in their fields as is the Prophet. Properly ridden, our Prophets will last untill Cannondale comes up with the next important innovation to impress us.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    749
    I would never dispute that the Prophet was a good bike. it was and is a great bike.
    It was also a confusing bike for many. The FR/XC settings just never really made much sense for most riders since in FR mode the BB was too low, butthismade it a fantastic trail bike.
    In XC mode the BB was too high and the head angle too steep. Some people found their happy medium and Cannondale responded by adding the MX to the rane and then by fitting Fox forks to the Prophet.

    The Rize is a less compromised animal. After riding one I have to say that it is better than the Prophet in every way. It handles better. it climbs better, it responds to the rider better.

    give it a try.
    There will always be a place for the Prophet of course. I tool wish they kept it in the 4X category but I'm sure a Rize would fit in there quite nicely.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    552
    well, while i agree that the bb could be a bit higher in the fr mode i don't particularly find it too high in the xc mode. I also firmly believe the rize is a better bike for a lot of riders out there than the prophet. Especially the xc crowd. Late saturday night i bombed down a trail i am working on and the two things that stood out was that the bb was really low and how none smooth my lefty was. It pretty much made it 100% certain that i'm gonna replace the spv internals. Other than that it handled really well. The felt low bb height is prob in a big part due to going out with my commencal supreme minidh the last times i've been riding as it has never felt this low before - indeed never really been that much of a problem. What is somewhat of a problem though is how the bike sometimes bunnyjumps to the side when going really fast down really technical sections. Dunno if it is due to the rear flex or what.

    What i really wanna know though is how does the moto do against the prophet in the 130mm mode up front for general trail riding? Also, what is the ac height of the pbr? And last but not least, is the pbr internals compatible with older max's?

    other than that, i guess i should try either of em before saying too much about the bikes. So far my comments are all based on specs and geo and not actually trying any of em, so take em for what it's worth.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    Ok, here's the deal. After saying all kind of stuff against it (obsolet, under-rated, way below my needs - those were the kind ones), today I placed an order on a Rize Carbon 2, which will be the only one in the next batch coming to Brazil (no Rize or Moto were brought yet), so I'll be the first around riding it - that's a huge responsability, I guess. My LBS has a good relationship with the importer, so I was offered the bike in first place in front of a lot of people, so after a lot of thinking (all the good comments, people saying it's awesome, DD comparing it to a Swiss-army knife... ), I decided to go for it. So let's see. I can't say I'm not curious and I really want to see how better this bike is over the Prophet just as everyone is saying. I also want to see how good the new Lefty RLC performs, although I'd like a PBR instead, but Fox is always fine and since mine will be the only one around, there won't be any other bike that I could swap the RLC for a PBR, at least until new bikes come in. But let it be. Anyway, it will be a two-month wait, so until there, I can still beat the hell out of the Prophet and enjoy it the most. And I hope by then I get more used to the thought of having it. But like I last said, that only can be a good thing. Who knows?

    But that's ironic. The first Rize to the last man wanting one. If that's not laughable, I don't know what else can be. Seriously.

    Yeah, I know what you are thinking. Pour it out guys. You can now trash me big time. "Never say never" is now my ultimate moto (or per say, my Rize - oh boy... )

    Man, I feel so stupid now.
    Last edited by Black RONIN; 08-11-2008 at 11:36 PM.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dascro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,149
    Don't feel stupid. I think everyone gets a little suspicious of new technology when it first appears. I think what we are seeing is the all mountain type bikes become heavier than when the prophet came out. Now all mountain bikes are actually pretty decent for lift assisted DH use. They typically weigh in the mid 30's and have aboud 160mm of travel front and rear. The new trail bikes are just like the rize, stumpjumper FSR and trek fuel ex. They seem to pedal and climb as well as the FS xc bikes yet still all of the descending ability of the 140mm AM bikes of the past.

    I'm happy for the split. Those that need their AM bikes to handle lift assisted DH will be able to get a bike like the Nomad, Moto or Reign X. Those that use AM bikes mostly for aggressive XC will go to the trail bikes like the Rize, Fuel EX and giant trance x.

    As for the bikes like the heckler and prophet. I'm afraid they are finally being left behind. I had and loved a Heckler for a while. Then I went out west and rented a fuel ex and stumpjumper FSR. Since then the heckler just seemed "primative" to me. The new bikes handled the aggressive descents and drops just as well yet climbed almost like my hardtail. As of last week my heckler sold and I am decided between the trek fuel ex and the Cannondale rize.

    I think that there will always be those who love the single pivot AM bikes. But I don't think they are the best choice for the majority of riders any longer. Both cannondale and Santa cruz are now making AM models that go away from the single pivot design, this speaks loud and clear to me. The nomad and moto for longer travel and blur lt and rize for trail bikes. I imagine SC will leave the heckler in the lineup as a niche product but I would not expect cannondale to do the same(which we are seeing).

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Black RONIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,505
    Quote Originally Posted by dascro
    Don't feel stupid. I think everyone gets a little suspicious of new technology when it first appears. I think what we are seeing is the all mountain type bikes become heavier than when the prophet came out. Now all mountain bikes are actually pretty decent for lift assisted DH use. They typically weigh in the mid 30's and have aboud 160mm of travel front and rear. The new trail bikes are just like the rize, stumpjumper FSR and trek fuel ex. They seem to pedal and climb as well as the FS xc bikes yet still all of the descending ability of the 140mm AM bikes of the past.

    I'm happy for the split. Those that need their AM bikes to handle lift assisted DH will be able to get a bike like the Nomad, Moto or Reign X. Those that use AM bikes mostly for aggressive XC will go to the trail bikes like the Rize, Fuel EX and giant trance x.

    As for the bikes like the heckler and prophet. I'm afraid they are finally being left behind. I had and loved a Heckler for a while. Then I went out west and rented a fuel ex and stumpjumper FSR. Since then the heckler just seemed "primative" to me. The new bikes handled the aggressive descents and drops just as well yet climbed almost like my hardtail. As of last week my heckler sold and I am decided between the trek fuel ex and the Cannondale rize.

    I think that there will always be those who love the single pivot AM bikes. But I don't think they are the best choice for the majority of riders any longer. Both cannondale and Santa cruz are now making AM models that go away from the single pivot design, this speaks loud and clear to me. The nomad and moto for longer travel and blur lt and rize for trail bikes. I imagine SC will leave the heckler in the lineup as a niche product but I would not expect cannondale to do the same(which we are seeing).
    I think I waited so long to get a Prophet that I got a little bitter when I knew it would not be continued. I wanted the Prophet since day one it was released, but only had the chance of getting one (an used 2006 Prophet 4000, but just as new as an out of the box bike) a few months ago, because Cannondale of Brazil didn't bring the bike in 2007 and the one I got was the LAST one they ever brought with a Lefty (this year they continued with the import for the Prophet, but it no longer have the Lefty. So I was hoping Cannondale could continue the Prophet after all the perspectives for 2008 (all new AM bikes going around 6-inches, very light and pedal great - just like the Prophet did back in 2004), so I was expecting a Nomad-killer from Cannondale. But it turned out not be true and they finally dropped the Prophet off.

    But you are right. I think today most AM bikes are around 28-30 pounds, what really doesn't even come closer to a top spec Prophet at 26 lbs. My 575 is in its lightest factory set-up and is weighting 28lbs. You're right again with the split between Trail and AM bikes. I think new technologies are making possible shorter yet more capable bikes, so we will have to get used to pass over travel numbers to define a bike and its intended use (Nomad is 5mm shorter but at the same time gets an ISCG mount, what makes us think it will have both its climbing and descending abilities improved by much), so I'm now trusting the Rize.

    I'm really getting used to the idea of having the Rize. I'm starting to like it, actually. It's a new reality when you know you will have and will be able to ride one, so I'm trying to see it from different and more positive angles. If I don't like it, patience, but if I like it, I'll simply admit how good it is and how wrong I was. But I'm pretty sure I'll love it. I may have had a bad initial impression with the numbers in the paper and with the plain design, but if it rides like a Cannondale, it will prove itself to be a very good bike. But I think it already did.

    Thanks for the words!

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: go-pirates's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    589
    "I think that there will always be those who love the single pivot AM bikes. But I don't think they are the best choice for the majority of riders any longer. Both cannondale and Santa cruz are now making AM models that go away from the single pivot design, this speaks loud and clear to me. The nomad and moto for longer travel and blur lt and rize for trail bikes. I imagine SC will leave the heckler in the lineup as a niche product but I would not expect cannondale to do the same(which we are seeing)".[/QUOTE]

    I respect your opinion, but at the end of the day aren't the Rize and Moto still single pivots?
    "Caught my first tube this morning....sir!"

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dascro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,149
    Quote Originally Posted by go-pirates
    "I think that there will always be those who love the single pivot AM bikes. But I don't think they are the best choice for the majority of riders any longer. Both cannondale and Santa cruz are now making AM models that go away from the single pivot design, this speaks loud and clear to me. The nomad and moto for longer travel and blur lt and rize for trail bikes. I imagine SC will leave the heckler in the lineup as a niche product but I would not expect cannondale to do the same(which we are seeing)".
    I respect your opinion, but at the end of the day aren't the Rize and Moto still single pivots?[/QUOTE]


    Yeah at the end of the day they are. But technically so are Konas and transitions treks new design and many others. In reality they are linkage driven single pivots. This is really a technicality that always comes up. But i think we all know that what I am referring to as single pivots and the linkage driven single pivot designs are very different.

    The linkage improves stiffness and can tune the leverage ratio of the design. One of my big problems with the single pivots was the shock rate. The new linkage design solves some of those issues.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •