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  1. #1
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    2010 RZ One Twenty 1: Rear triangle lateral play.

    Hi Everyone,

    I'm new to the Cannondale family as i've just purchased my first Cannondale: 2010 RZ One Twenty 1, 3 weeks ago... and am loving it.

    Here's my question, i found a slight lateral play in the rear triangle... at first i thought its the rear hub that has problem so i took the rear wheel off to check the hub but everything is ok, the same with the rear skewer.

    When i apply weight onto the bike the play is gone... i tried lifting the bike off the ground and shake the rear wheel, the play is not there as well... but i when i place the bike down onto the ground with no weight pressure and shake the rear wheel, the play is back. Here's my take, if the rear hub has play... regardless of weight pressure, the play will always be there... i know this because my road bike used to have that problem. My question is, does this happen to your Cannondale as well? Do all multi-link design have this problem... i tested my friend's Commencal and Trek Fuel, the Commencal has the same problem but the Trek Fuel doesn't... why?

    I Thank you in advance.

    Cheers,
    Eric.

  2. #2
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    There should be no play anywhere on the RZ rear end. There must be something loose, or ill-fitting some where around the bike. I would start by checking that all pivots and bushings are at the correct torque setting.

  3. #3
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    It should have no play. My Rize 140 (nearly the same design) is over 15 months old with 1500+ mi on it. No play at all. I have done the linkage maint outlined in the manual, but that's it.

    Take you bike back to the LBS and ask them to fix it since it's so new.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  4. #4
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    I have a 2010 RZ140 with only 355miles on it and I noticed some play as well but I think it has something to do with the wheel. When the bike is off the stand and on the ground I put my chest on the seat to apply weight then grab the top of the rear wheel and shake it side to side there is a definite knocking but when I do the samething but shake it by the chain or seat stays it doesn't seem to be there. I have torqued all of the pivots plus an extra Nm and it's still there. But it doesn't affect the ride at all nor do I even hear or feel any knocking or vibration.

  5. #5
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    I have a new (3 week old) RZ120-3 and my son has a RZ120-2, also new. No lateral play issues here whatsoever after about 10 rides. I agree with ziscwg, take it back to your LBS and have them take care of it. For that expensive a bike and as new as it is, you should definitely not have a problem like that with it.

  6. #6
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    Thank you everyone for your feedback... my case is VERY similar to cooter32 except when i shake it by the chain or seat stay, the play is still there.... gonna go back to my LBS and have them take a look.

  7. #7
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    Just went and tested out my rize with over 2000 miles on it in two seasons and no play

  8. #8
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    it has similar suspension to Rize's, and we all know there is a problem (actually it is in shock bushes...)

  9. #9
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    Vasiliyg~ Can you elaborate more about the problem?

  10. #10
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    Well I spoke too soon!!!!!!!
    Yesterday after changing a rear flat, I noticed there was definitely lateral movement in the rear. I thought I just didn't put my wheel back on correctly, or tight enough.
    Keep in mind I have only ridden this bike 10 times, but I do ride pretty hard. It took me a few minutes to pinpoint the problem. I noticed that BOTH rear swingarm bolts were loose, so much in fact that I could see daylight on the one on the brake side. Not good. Luckily I had a 4mm hex with me. Tightened them both up and everything was fine the rest of the ride.
    I am still going to take it to my LBS tomorrow and have THEM make sure eveything is torqued properly and to check all of the other pivots while they are at it.

  11. #11
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  12. #12
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    Thanks again fellas for the feedback... Do you guys think C-Dale fixed the problem on 2010 RZs'? I've checked and re-checked the all the pivot bolts and they are tight as a clam but the play is still there...drives me CRAZY!

    Elzippo~ Seems like i'm riding on the wagon of doom... of all the feedback i've seen, mine is just a matter of time...sigH!
    Last edited by Keninshiro; 10-11-2010 at 08:33 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keninshiro
    Thanks again fellas for the feedback... Do you guys think C-Dale fixed the problem on 2010 RZs'? I've checked and re-checked the all the pivot bolts and they are tight as a clam but the play is still there...drives me CRAZY!

    Elzippo~ Seems like i'm riding on the wagon of doom... of all the feedback i've seen, mine is just a matter of time...sigH!
    Just bring the bike back to your lbs and let them handle it,mtbr is great to post your gripes but it will not fix the problem

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keninshiro
    Thanks again fellas for the feedback... Do you guys think C-Dale fixed the problem on 2010 RZs'? I've checked and re-checked the all the pivot bolts and they are tight as a clam but the play is still there...drives me CRAZY!

    Elzippo~ Seems like i'm riding on the wagon of doom... of all the feedback i've seen, mine is just a matter of time...sigH!

    How much play are we talking? Everything from the Pope to the President has a little inherent play.

    You're not doomed if you have spare bearings and loctite 638 on hand, and know what symptoms to look for and when to replace them.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMCAT
    Just bring the bike back to your lbs and let them handle it,mtbr is great to post your gripes but it will not fix the problem
    I'm not here to gripe or wind like a bi*ch, i need to know what I'm up against before bringing it back to the LBS. Bear this in mind, not ALL LBS are capable of knowing all the problems on every brand they carry... you might know more than them.

    E.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elzippo
    How much play are we talking? Everything from the Pope to the President has a little inherent play.

    You're not doomed if you have spare bearings and loctite 638 on hand, and know what symptoms to look for and when to replace them.
    It's not crossing the red sea for sure, the play is about 2mm.

    Unfortunately i don't have any spare bearings, and would be hard for me to get some given the location I'm at. I'm hoping to catch the problem before it becomes out of hand... prevention is always better than cure.

  17. #17
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    After visiting my LBS today, we've managed to solved the problem. The play was coming from the left rear lower seat stay pivot closest to the disc brake mount. On the initial check, everything was ok... all the pivots were tight and according to the recommended torque setting but the play was still there... so i held the bike up-right (wheels on the ground), the mechanic shake the rear wheel while running this ringer over every pivot till we found the problem. We loosen both left and right rear pivot, double check the pivot cover and bearings to see if they were faulty but we found nothing wrong... we switched the pivot covers and bolt around since both sides are identical to see if the problem persist. The mechanic re-assemble the pivots with a healthy dose of grease, some loctite and the right torque setting... WHA-LA! The play is GONE!

    After some discussions with the mechanic, our conclusion is that the frame MAY have left Cdale factory unchecked. The pivots may not be assembled to specification, the pivot cover did not sit in properly hence the play. If you have the same problem as i did, locate the area where the play developed and re-assemble that pivot again.
    Last edited by Keninshiro; 10-20-2010 at 05:26 AM.

  18. #18
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    My RZ140 is in the shop as we speak with the same issue. While I was there we found the rear lower seat stay bearings were loose. It talks about it in the manual that came with the bike (link below) on page 16 of the manual or 18 of the pdf.

    http://www.cannondale.com/usa/usaeng...140_oms_en.pdf

    Cheers
    Brian

  19. #19
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    Brian ~ (Read though the pdf link you've provided) We inspected the bearings when we disassembled the lower arms to check if the bearings were loose / out of their socket but they sat firmly in place so we suspect the bearing covers were not sit in properly during assembly.

  20. #20
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    Same exact problem as Keninshiro(See my post above as well) LBS tightened everything up and now it is great. Also double checked to make sure all of the other pivots were to factory torque specs and they weren't.
    My son just bought the same bike(a RZ120-2), so his will be going in this week as well for the same treatment.

  21. #21
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    Turns out I wasn't tightening the quick release enough. Now everything is good

  22. #22
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    Glad it worked out for everyone!

  23. #23
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    I picked up an RZ120 recently for my kid, I have an '08 Rize. During assembly of the bike I noticed the rear triangle had some lateral play noticed by holding the top of the rear tire and moving laterally. It was the rear pivot bolts were not tight enough (sandwiched enough) causing some play at the pivot.

  24. #24
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    Looks like I am not the only one.

    I have a 2010 RZ 120-1.. I picked up the bike mid may so it has about 9 mos riding on it,about 3200 miles. I have replaced the complete drive train rings cassette chain(2x) and derailleur, brake pads 2x each front and back all this annoys me but I expect as normal wear and tear, The bike is ridden hard and always perform well.
    How ever.....
    Changing the pivot bearings 5x is ridiculous.
    The bearings at the seat stay /shock link just keep wearing out. Mainly the left side. The first set lasted the longest about 3mos. I have always checked the bolts for tightness!! every ride! I had the LBS change the bearings the first time in order to show me how, there cool like that, let me hang out and teach me how to do it my self. Any how the left side wore out again after about 200 miles?? So I brought it back to them to fix again, I was thinking if I have the shop do all the work I don't risk any warranty issues if it comes to that. Well over the past 5 mos we are now up to 5 sets of bearing and on complete bolt kit changed???
    Cannondale tech support asks all the same questions over and over, did you check for tightness before every ride? using a torque wrench? Using the rights lock tight?? letting it sit for 24 hrs?? We have done everything by the book! Nothing as far as we can tell is bent? The shop is going to insist cannondale send us a new seat stay and maybe a new link.. something must be out of alignment ??

    I love this bike! This issue is frustrating. The rz120-1 is a 3800 dollar bike, I thought cannondale would be bending over backwards to help us out?? Tech just keeps telling us to try it again. Is it possible the bearings them selves are of poor quality?? Next time we will try some enduro bearings I guess or maybe some high price ceramics?? Or just good high quality German made industrial bearings?
    Any insights and or suggestions are ver very welcome

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS
    Looks like I am not the only one.

    I have a 2010 RZ 120-1.. I picked up the bike mid may so it has about 9 mos riding on it,about 3200 miles. I have replaced the complete drive train rings cassette chain(2x) and derailleur, brake pads 2x each front and back all this annoys me but I expect as normal wear and tear, The bike is ridden hard and always perform well.
    How ever.....
    Changing the pivot bearings 5x is ridiculous.
    The bearings at the seat stay /shock link just keep wearing out. Mainly the left side. The first set lasted the longest about 3mos. I have always checked the bolts for tightness!! every ride! I had the LBS change the bearings the first time in order to show me how, there cool like that, let me hang out and teach me how to do it my self. Any how the left side wore out again after about 200 miles?? So I brought it back to them to fix again, I was thinking if I have the shop do all the work I don't risk any warranty issues if it comes to that. Well over the past 5 mos we are now up to 5 sets of bearing and on complete bolt kit changed???
    Cannondale tech support asks all the same questions over and over, did you check for tightness before every ride? using a torque wrench? Using the rights lock tight?? letting it sit for 24 hrs?? We have done everything by the book! Nothing as far as we can tell is bent? The shop is going to insist cannondale send us a new seat stay and maybe a new link.. something must be out of alignment ??

    I love this bike! This issue is frustrating. The rz120-1 is a 3800 dollar bike, I thought cannondale would be bending over backwards to help us out?? Tech just keeps telling us to try it again. Is it possible the bearings them selves are of poor quality?? Next time we will try some enduro bearings I guess or maybe some high price ceramics?? Or just good high quality German made industrial bearings?
    Any insights and or suggestions are ver very welcome
    First of all there are factors that could be wearing the bearings prematurely. Weight of the rider, type of riding, water penetration, assembly and then engineering. I've ridden my Rize quite a bit and don't see any issues with pivot bearings failing. If you are getting the bike wet regularly I'd recommend spraying a lube into each pivot bearing afterward to try and dissipate any residual water that can cause corrosion failure. I doubt that any alignment issues are resulting in bearing failures. Although, I guess if the bearing was getting clamped crooked it could happen, although it would have to be pretty extreme. If the bearing is somehow getting crushed when tightened, that could be a concern.

  26. #26
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    I am 6ft tall and weigh 175 lbs I don't think that's the issue, at least I sure hope its not. The bike seldom see's wet ridding and when I take it in to the mud I usually spend a few hours cleaning lubing and tightening after. It is definitely getting crushed especially on the left hand side? when I back the bolt out the race's are gone ground to gray/black metallic dust and the balls just fall out. It is definitely perplexing. ?/?/?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS
    I am 6ft tall and weigh 175 lbs I don't think that's the issue, at least I sure hope its not. The bike seldom see's wet ridding and when I take it in to the mud I usually spend a few hours cleaning lubing and tightening after. It is definitely getting crushed especially on the left hand side? when I back the bolt out the race's are gone ground to gray/black metallic dust and the balls just fall out. It is definitely perplexing. ?/?/?
    sounds like a corrosion problem from your description, hard to tell over the Internet, your postings don't make a whole lot of sense,

  28. #28
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    Corrosion ..I guess its possible but in less than 200 miles of use and the bike seldom gets wet. It doesn't make sense is right. WHY would only the left hand side seat stay/link bearing fail over and over again. The obvious answer is something is not straight but we can not detect what. The bolt kit has been replaced, next move replace seat saty and link??

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS
    Corrosion ..I guess its possible but in less than 200 miles of use and the bike seldom gets wet. It doesn't make sense is right. WHY would only the left hand side seat stay/link bearing fail over and over again. The obvious answer is something is not straight but we can not detect what. The bolt kit has been replaced, next move replace seat saty and link??
    The RZ120 4 that I picked up recently did have a "kink" in the suspension free movement without the shock. If I was to try and repair something like this it could be any of the rear suspension components (and or frame). As I have not seen reason to believe it will start wiping out the bearings, time will tell for me at this point. But, I guess yes, sure you could have some alignment issue there if the bearing systems are being assembled properly and corrosion is not an issue. In which case you need to get in touch with Cdale before your warranty period for such things expires (unless there is "crash" evidence).......... but again, from "over the Internet"...... your problem sounds like a real long shot of being a real concern, IMO.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS
    Corrosion ..I guess its possible but in less than 200 miles of use and the bike seldom gets wet. It doesn't make sense is right. WHY would only the left hand side seat stay/link bearing fail over and over again. The obvious answer is something is not straight but we can not detect what. The bolt kit has been replaced, next move replace seat saty and link??
    I'm wondering if, whether due to manu defect or insufficient prep, that the suspect bearing is not seating parallel to the shock link. I do believe the seat stay could be the culprit, and if this is an area where C'dale had inconsistent QC, it could explain why some people seem to have far better luck with their bearings than others on this bike.

    Others have claimed that some aftermarket bearings have far better quality than the OEM bearings. I don't have any firsthand knowledge of this, but can say that similar OEM bearings on my Scalpel fell short of my expectations.

    Good luck,
    Pete
    I can barely get my mouth around it.

  31. #31
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    Well revisiting an old problem. Burning through the bearing again. mainly the left hand side still. Cannondale sent me a new seat stay, after it was swapped out with yet another set of bearings and another complete bolt kit, I managed to get about 500 miles of use out of it. I just had to replace both bearings again,about 3 weeks ago,(the left hand side was pulverized) Now 200ish miles latter I can see the ground up bearings depositing a nice black/grey dust onto the seat stay. AHHHHH the only 2 suspensions parst not replaced are the chain-stays and the link?Even the shock,its bushings and adapters have been switched out, the shock blew up and was replaced by fox. My LBS is working with Cannondale to get this resolved. VERY FRUSTRATING.
    Peter thanks for the suggestion- early on we did try switching to enduro bearings but the bike chewed right through them as well.

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    2011 RZ 120 2 bearings already...really?

    I'm a cannondale newby as of this spring. I love this bike and the Lefty is awesome although it's odd knowing my fork is gradually loosing travel as I ride it. At least the reset is easy to do and I like working on my bikes.
    Now the rear end has developed slight up and down play that I think I've traced to a worn seat stay bearing. After two years of reliable riding on a Fuel EX it seems nuts to think I have to change these bearings out already. I think the bushings in my '02 Sugar lasted longer. I also think I bought the wrong bike.
    Last edited by macdeal; 06-09-2011 at 06:56 PM.

  33. #33
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    I've changed my bearings once (March 2011) since I've had the bike from May 2009. Even then, the bearings weren't shot, but just not smooth when I spun them with my finger. I have also changed the DU bushings once and the shock mount bushings. I do about 1200 mi a yr and I weigh 180 lbs.

    Something is sure up with your bike. Bearings failing that often is just odd.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    I've changed my bearings once (March 2011) since I've had the bike from May 2009. Even then, the bearings weren't shot, but just not smooth when I spun them with my finger. I have also changed the DU bushings once and the shock mount bushings. I do about 1200 mi a yr and I weigh 180 lbs.

    Something is sure up with your bike. Bearings failing that often is just odd.
    This is pretty much the same story as my Rize.. Replaced all the bearings after about 4000 miles all year round riding, which is 50% of the time in wet and harsh conditions ( i live in Scotland). They were not desperately needing done, but 2 were slightly rough when spun with finger.

    The only problem i had was with a poorly fitting lower shock bolt. I discovered the holes in the linkage are were to big, causing a small amount of slack. I fixed this by using a correctly fitting shock bolt from a Orange Pro 5.

    There is some helpful info in this thread;

    sloppy Rize 5, sloppy cannondale response

  35. #35
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    And what was wrong with the Rush?

    This thread makes me love the single pivot Rush that the Rize replaced all the more!

    Solid, simple and bomb proof!
    Dug-Da-Goat

    Something changes at 12,000'
    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    This thread makes me love the single pivot Rush that the Rize replaced all the more!

    Solid, simple and bomb proof!

    "Solid, simple and bomb proof" but also flexy as hell. As much as i loved my old Rush, the Rize / Rz platform was a big step forward in stiffness, shock action and dynamics.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chick0 View Post
    "Solid, simple and bomb proof" but also flexy as hell. As much as i loved my old Rush, the Rize / Rz platform was a big step forward in stiffness, shock action and dynamics.
    You're kidding me, right? The Rush flexy? OK, I have a carbon Rush which is maybe stiffer than the Alu Versions, and I'm running a 10X135 RWS in the rear...but flexy is not something I would use to describe the Rush. I've ridden A LOT of different bike brands, and the Rush is one of the more solid designs I've swung a leg over.

    Now could they have gotten 140mm of travel out of the design? I would think so, since the Prophet was aleady there and used a similar swingarm. So I think someone needs to come up with a better explanation for the redesign to the Rize.

    Let's see... looks more conventional and will sell better if folks don't think it is a Single Pivot. In fact the Faux Bar looks like a Horst Link FSR and we know that's the real competition. Yeah, I think that sums it up!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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    2011 RZ 120 2 bearings already...really?

    Thanks for the tip Chick0. The play I'm feeling is vertical as well. Almost like the slight play you feel from a worn DU bushing (pretty sure it's not the bushing). It happens exactly as you described. Tape and time are cheap. I'll give it a try.

  39. #39
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    I owned a '05 Prophet and now a '09 Rize,the Prophet was very flexy,most noticeable when hitting jumps mid-corner,most off camber situations,really.
    I've had issues with the shock bushings on my rize,the suspension pivots have been fine.

  40. #40
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    I hope we didn't end up with "the wrong" bike. I am still confident that cannondale will make it right, what ever that entails. I am training and ridding a lot right now and have a few events on my radar, So I am not willing to give my bike for more than a few days at a time, when I am my LBS will take the bike and get Cannondale rep in the shop and go over the problems and come up with a solution. Possibly replacing various suspension/frame components ??? At least the word from the shop.
    The bike it self is awesome, light, stiff a VERY capable descender, 4 inches of travel front and rear and the lefty is beyond expectations and performs incredibly well.
    If this is widely occurring problem then we may be looking a design defect and I trust that cannondale will have a fix. At 3800$$ from a well established company like cannondale I expect all problems to be rectified.

  41. #41
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    I have a 2010 RZ One Twenty I purchased 2 months ago. After 3 hours of riding the rear triangle developed lateral play. At first I thought is was my wheel bearing coming loose. My local LBS has been great dealing with Cannondale to resolve the problem. However it took almost month for Cannondale to send the replacement rear upper seat stays. First ride with the new parts no problems, I have about 3-4 hours on the bike and problem is resurfacing.

    For what I paid for the bike I have to say got a lemon. NO more full suspension C-dales in my future. I would sell the bike but I dont want to pass the problem on to someone else. I am going to see about the trade in program cannondale has and try to get a flash hardtail.

  42. #42
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    I built up a 2011 RZ120-1 frame about 3 months ago and have had absolutely NO problems with it whatsoever. I've been riding Cannondales since 1996 and can honestly say that I have never had a problem with any of them- no broken frames, no loose bearings, no nothing except kick-a$$ bikes. I've had multiple F-series hardtails, a original Jekyll, 2 Rushes, a Prophet and now the RZ. I'm not saying Cannondales are perfect but it always amazes me how some people have so many issues with them. I guess I've had a 15 year streak of fantastic luck....

  43. #43
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    Keep in mind that most bikes, at least my 2010 RZ120, came into my LBS almost completely assembled from the factory (we now have 2 of them).
    On mine, I noticed the lateral play in the rear wheel area after only my second ride. After bringing it back in, LBS determined that the torque settings were only about half of what they were supposed to be from the factory and tightened everything up. That was 7 months ago now and since then I have had no problems whatsoever even after riding 3-4 days a week. Fortunately I caught the problem early, or my bearings would have been toast. About 2 weeks after my incident, my son's new RZ came into the shop. When I went to pick it up, I told the LBS that I would not take the bike until the pivots were checked and that the torque settings were where they needed to be. Sure enough, they were looser than the ones on mine were. Just because it's a nice high quality bike and manufacturer, does NOT mean that the guy who put it together at the factory isn't a complete moron...

  44. #44
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    My rear pivot bearings on the chain stays were not loctited from the factory. I had play on both sides. A quick call to the tech. guys at Cannondale and I was back on the trail in 24 hours. Not all can be cured just by torque settings. Seems a small batch of the hand made ones in 2010 left with no loctite to cure the bearing to the frame. See page 17 in the manuals and tech notes on the Cannondales website under their support section. I tried to post link but Im a new guy. LOL

  45. #45
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    I'm going through the same with my RZ140. The right lower shocklink pivot bolt keeps backing out even with loctite, just lost my second on the trails. I suspect the threads in the shocklink itself. Does anyone know what the thread/pitch is on those lower link pivot bolts (half thinking about using heli-coils if they are available).

    Any help would be appreciated.

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