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  1. #1
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    2007 Prophet 4 twisty rear end ?

    Ok since I've owned my Prophet "traded in my Jeykll which I loved" I've had nothing but problems from the rear end. It started with the rear brake always rubbing to it GHOST shifting constantly. Well today I'm riding at my favorite spot and in the parking lot is a Titus factory truck with demo bikes sponsored by Speedgoat bike shop. I show the guys at the truck how the rear wheel is not perfectly lined, it's twisted to the left like the right side of the swingarm is shorter than the left. One of the guys grabbed the rear wheel and twisted it side to side. I could not believe the amount of flex !!! I did this than grabbed a Moto Lite which had zero side flex. Now did I get a bad rear section or are all Prophets made this way and if so WHY !!!!!! I so want my Jeykll back, Anyone with info on this I encourage you to e-mail me at mcornell@iup.edu
    The bike goes back to the shop tomorrow and I imagine my LBS owner will feed me a line of crap.
    If it's supposed to be flexy I can handle that but the ghost shifting got to go.

  2. #2
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    Had the ghost shifting and rear end flex on my prophet also. Ran a full length shift cable housing to the rear and the ghost shifting was fixed. Prophets do have lateral flex in the rear. I never was a fan of it, but got used to it. Even the MX versions have similar lateral flex, even with a thru axle in the rear. Never did have a prob with the rear end twisting though. The bike was great for trail riding and doing some jumping and dropping, but the lateral flex was always apparent. Could definitely feel it on fast corners and off camber landings. Other than that, I really like the bike. Just had to move on to a bigger bike as I progressed.

  3. #3
    I don't huck.
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    Interesting. I can feel a bit of wiggle when I hit an off camber step-up at just the right angle. It sure feels like the back is moving around. I don't have any ghost shifting issues, but I can coast along and lean the bike from side to side and get the rear disc to drag on the pads. Kinda surprising really. Good thing the bike is so great to ride otherwise or I would be bummed.

    Wonder where all the flex is coming from? Seems like it would be pretty stout by looking at it.

  4. #4
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    The twist

    Considering that the rear upper swing arm is connected directly to the shok - which is un supported - I can see where the flex would be coming from. I just don't understand why with such a stout front triangle that the rear upper pivot was not beefed up ? Anyway anyone else notice if the rear wheel is off camber in the swingarm ?

  5. #5
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    Noodle

    My Prophet is flexi as hell ...I am 180lbs and the back end is the worst part of the bike a big disappointment TBH ....Try following your prophet and watch the back wheel then watch a Reign or Nomad or some other stout ended bike and you can really see the difference in the way the back end reacts

  6. #6
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    Interesting. I wonder why I don't hear this about the SC Hecklers? Seems like they would be the same.

    Maybe they are built heavier in the frame construction. They sure seem to build up a few pounds more than my Prophet.

    I remember following a guy in the club (Clydesdale) on his Prophet and his back wheel was definitely doing a bit of the mambo. Still, I don't feel a loss of steering precision or anything when I ride hard.

    Well, I guess no bike is perfect, but in the two weeks I have been riding, I sure have been impressed by the bike.

  7. #7
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    Good job! Wiggly rear

    I fixed my flexing rear end with a Chris King rear hub with the fun bolts kit and a much stiffer rim. The mavic crosslands that came with the bike are junk in my opinion. The change is dramatic. For heavier ridders this upgrade is well worth the $$$.

  8. #8
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    This is interesting, because I've heard a lot of people talk about flex on the rear end of prophets... That it's usually the main reason people don't buy it.

    In the time I've had mine, I haven't really done any hardcore riding, to notice it...

    PS. I've heard that they might build flex into it, to increase durability... As the stiffer it is the more likely it is to snap? Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMP808@comcast.net
    I fixed my flexing rear end with a Chris King rear hub with the fun bolts kit and a much stiffer rim. The mavic crosslands that came with the bike are junk in my opinion. The change is dramatic. For heavier ridders this upgrade is well worth the $$$.

    What is the fun bolts kit?

  10. #10
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    Best thing I ever did was upgrade my wheels to XM819 rims on hope Pro IIs, really stiffened that back end up.
    I think the Prophet is an incredibly well balanced bike, just flows nicely. Can't say I notice any flex as such, it feels like it's working just right to me.

  11. #11
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    I thought I'd best add that I'm 12.5 stone, so I'm not sure how it holds up with bigger guys.


  12. #12
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    It may sound stupid, but I feel it only when I'm running at too low air pressure (<30 psi) - indicative that it is not the bike but the large (2.35) tires (Spyders, High Rollers, Nevegals)that are flexing. When properly inflated, it just isn't a problem. I've got a Prophet 2000 with 819's and a somewhat burleu Hope Bulb rear hub. I watch the spokes too.

  13. #13
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    I've felt mine flex a little when slipping in and out of ruts but thats about it. I've never felt it deflect from rocks etc. I've also never had it ghost shift or flex so the brake drags and I'm 210#.

  14. #14
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    Have anyone trie taking off the rear wheel and compressing the chainstays? Or twisting one up and the other down at the same time? Maybe also secure the bike so that you can rotate the swingarm from one side to the other?
    My experience from forks is that the spaghetti ones are possible to flex by arm strength alone. I haven't tried with my prophet.
    Personally, my bike felt stiffer when I got a Hope II with x819 (32 spokes) wheel.

  15. #15
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    On with the show.

    Ok took bike to shop and explained problem. I showed how flexy the rear end was (not the wheel it was off) and I showed him how the drive sidfe of the swingarm is at least an eighth inch shorter than the brake side. This was measured from two points. From the center of the bb to the rear axle and from the center of the main swingarm pivot to center of rear axle. Hence the rear wheel sitting off centered in the swingarm ! He was on the phone with Cannodale and they gave him BS that the whole frame is set in a jig prior to being welded and that it could not be off from that. However the tech could not answer if it was made to be that way. That was Monday 6-2-07 Today 6-3-07 got a call to come pick up bike that the "ghost" shifting was cured by a fully jacketed shift cable. I asked about the rear end and was told (by the shop owner my friend) that he still needs to talk to Cannondale about the mis alignment. I told him to keep the bike untill it was fixed. I paid close to $2000. for a bike and I want it to work better than a wal-mart brand. I also have an old Schwinn Homegrown hardtail. Never a problem don't think I ever even had a flat on it.
    I'll ride it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. #16
    toPdoG
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    When I bought my 05 Prophet 1000 one of the first things that I noticed Is that when I applied any lateral forces to my bike like hammering short climbs with some body english applied the rear tire would rub the swing arm. I attribute this to the Mavic Crossland wheels flexing under the forces. The cheep fix was to run a smaller 2.0 tire. The more time I spent on the bike the more I noticed the rear swing arm flexing on trails with angled 3 to 4 inch roots or going over logs that I hit at an angle. I weigh 220lbs. so lighter riders will probably not notice as much flex as I do. What I eventually did to cure my situation was not to go on a diet but I bought a Chris King rear hub. The hub has a Fun Bolts kit which substitutes bolts for the quick release. THIS MAKES A HUGH DIFFERENCE! With the Chris King hub you also get a 72 tooth ring gear engagement instead of a two pawl engagement which comes in all Mavic free hub bodys which I was replacing every 6 months at $50 bucks a pop. I spent $400 for the hub with the fun bolts spent $25 for spokes and nipples and $25 for a rhino rim and built the wheel myself. Now I have the firmest rear in town. This is the best money I've ever spent on a bike.

  17. #17
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    I fixed my Prophet

    Had similar problem with my Prophet 1000. Fixed it by buying a Turner 5-spot!!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMP808@comcast.net
    When I bought my 05 Prophet 1000 one of the first things that I noticed Is that when I applied any lateral forces to my bike like hammering short climbs with some body english applied the rear tire would rub the swing arm. I attribute this to the Mavic Crossland wheels flexing under the forces. The cheep fix was to run a smaller 2.0 tire. The more time I spent on the bike the more I noticed the rear swing arm flexing on trails with angled 3 to 4 inch roots or going over logs that I hit at an angle. I weigh 220lbs. so lighter riders will probably not notice as much flex as I do. What I eventually did to cure my situation was not to go on a diet but I bought a Chris King rear hub. The hub has a Fun Bolts kit which substitutes bolts for the quick release. THIS MAKES A HUGH DIFFERENCE! With the Chris King hub you also get a 72 tooth ring gear engagement instead of a two pawl engagement which comes in all Mavic free hub bodys which I was replacing every 6 months at $50 bucks a pop. I spent $400 for the hub with the fun bolts spent $25 for spokes and nipples and $25 for a rhino rim and built the wheel myself. Now I have the firmest rear in town. This is the best money I've ever spent on a bike.
    Interesting. I really cannot stand the noise a King hub makes...I don't care how good it is, but I know they are great hubs. They sound like a big Cicada.

    But besides that, the Crossland wheel sets...are those what is on an 800? I dont see that labeled anywhere. they are a Mavic rim, but besides that...not sure.

    I don't have anywhere near that kind of flex. Mercy.

  19. #19
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    Hows this happen ????

    Waiting for my bike to come back from bike shop. Was told today that he is waiting for a new swingarm from Cannondale and was also told that Cannondale "had to make one"!!!!
    How can this be. It's a multi produced bike shouldn't they have a stack of swingarms hanging around ????? Or am I being fed BS ????
    I'm still out a bike.

  20. #20
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    Yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by daktari
    Have anyone trie taking off the rear wheel and compressing the chainstays? Or twisting one up and the other down at the same time? Maybe also secure the bike so that you can rotate the swingarm from one side to the other?
    My experience from forks is that the spaghetti ones are possible to flex by arm strength alone. I haven't tried with my prophet.
    Personally, my bike felt stiffer when I got a Hope II with x819 (32 spokes) wheel.
    Yes i have a spare swinging Arm (due to warranty)and it will flex horizontally, but i can detect no vertical flex, however it takes little wear to produce a twisting motion in the pivots.
    Last edited by mzungo; 07-14-2007 at 11:05 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzungo
    Yes i have a spare swinging Arm (due to warranty)and it will flex horizontally but i can detect no vertical flex however it tkaes little wear to produce a twisting motion in the pivots.
    I just read a review from the first presentation of the Prophet from winter 05. It stated that Cedrig Gracia thought the bike was to stiff initially, and it would have better traction in curves when there was some flex in the rear. That is what they have done.
    Maybe someone with friends at Cannondales could confirm if this is true?.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtroy
    What is the fun bolts kit?
    Fun Bolt kit is a kit that converts the QR to a bolt on axle. This is only for Chris King rear hubs.

    There are other hubs like the Shimano XT that can be ghetto converted that works really good.
    Last edited by racerzero; 07-14-2007 at 12:19 PM.

  23. #23
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    No need for ghetto.

    A standard threaded axle can be put in an XT hub. With a nice set of nuts/ washers, it can look really nice and clean.

  24. #24
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by 77BMX
    No need for ghetto.

    A standard threaded axle can be put in an XT hub. With a nice set of nuts/ washers, it can look really nice and clean.
    By Ghetto I mean:

    jury-rigged, improvised, or home-made (from Slang Dictionary)

    I also like to use the Ghetto BMX tubeless method. And yes it can look Ghetto if you're lazy. I prefer a clean look so you can't even tell that I'm running tubeless.

  25. #25
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    My Prophet flexed like hell until... I changed the rear wheel for an Atomlab GI hub / Sun Mtx. This hub comes with thru-bolt axle and industrial bearings (unlike the ghettoed Smano) that fixes the swingarm flex. The MTX S-Type rim is 35mm wide that fixes the tire squirm on big volume tires. The rim is much stiffer on itself as well. Cost me 120dollars at Chainreaction. Now my bike feels like running on rails.
    www.swotch.com - Tenerife Island Trail Web

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