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'17 Scalpel - twitchy?

2K views 20 replies 12 participants last post by  jschoef 
#1 ·
Just wanted to take the pulse of the forum on this - I just got a new 2017 Scalpel SI 4, and having some trouble getting used to the handling of it.

I'm coming off of ( still own) a 2012 Gary Fisher Superfly hardtail. Both bikes are similar in wheelbase, same head angle; the GF has a 51mm offset, and the Scalpel 55.

The Scalpel just feels so twitchy, to the point of feeling nervous. It reminds me of my old 26" Giant Anthem that had a 72 degree head angle. It feels like it constantly wants to turn at the slightest movement of the handlebar; it cant just 'chill' and go in a straight line. I feel like I'm missing the lines I want. I'm finding technical sections of trail that I used to consistently clear on the Fisher to be a real challenge now, and having to dab way more often. I thought this bike would blow the older tech of the Gary Fisher out of the water, surprised to see myself setting way faster Strava times on the old bike. Additionally, all the reviews I've read of the bike have been positive and mentioned how the slacker geo makes the bike almost a trail bike, and is no longer like the race-only twitchy Scalpels of old.

What am I missing? Is there something I could do to slacken the handling? The handlebar on the Superfly has a big sweep, 15 deg, compared to 5 for the Cannnodale. Would that account for a big handling difference? Thinking of giving swapping the bars a shot.

Anyway, your thoughts are appreciated. I couldn't find a single person online calling the redesigned 2017 Scalpel twitchy, so I'm wondering what I'm missing here...
 
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#2 ·
Haven't ridden one but own a F29. I was riding 600mm bars and was real excited to go to 700mm. When I did, I had the same experience as you. I cut them to 640 and it was better. The Scalpel has 740mm I think? Maybe cut them to 700mm and see how it goes. Long stem and wide bars equal twitchy.
 
#8 ·
Wouldn't the frame being too big have the opposite effect?

I'm 6'1 and on a Large. I'm going to swap the front tire from the stock Racing Ralph to a Vittoria 2.25 Barzo and see if that slows the steering down a bit. The wandering on steep climbs is really annoying. I can't fathom that someone would have designed the bike to ride this way...
 
#10 ·
Wouldn't the frame being too big have the opposite effect?

I'm 6'1 and on a Large. I'm going to swap the front tire from the stock Racing Ralph to a Vittoria 2.25 Barzo and see if that slows the steering down a bit. The wandering on steep climbs is really annoying. I can't fathom that someone would have designed the bike to ride this way...
I would leave the bars exactly as they are ay 760mm...narrower will only make the bike more nervous and twitchy.

Try and wind in the Lefty rebound knob to slow it down...2-3 clicks from the slowest setting...it definitely helped me a lot.

Definitely take the Racing Ralph off the front and try something more aggressive like a Nobby Nic 2,25 or similar...and low pressure [1,6 to 1,8 bar in front]
 
#13 ·
Update: put on a tubeless Vittoria Barzo 2.25. Bike handles MUCH better. Was able to clear the rock gardens that were giving me trouble. Think I still want to swap out the setback seatpost and maybe play around w/ different stem lengths, but I'd say the front tire was 80% of the issue.

Racing Ralphs are just not suited to the gnarly technical rocky terrain around here.
 
#17 ·
Does that GF you're coming from have that G2 geometry? I had a Trek 29'er with that G2 geometry and it handled like a garbage truck with 3 flat tires, the scalpel is a race XC rig with razor-like handling (pun intended).
You can firm up the fork so it stays higher in the travel during turns and run a higher profile front tire, that'll slow down the steering a little until you get used to it.
Racing Ralphs are great tires on dirt but throw in rocks and all bets are off, i kind of like Ground Controls or Nobby Nics...even Ardents over RR's.
 
#20 ·
I realize this is an old thread, but I've ridden 4 years now on a '15 Trek Superfly Singlespeed with Conti Cross-Kings. I've ridden just about all types of terrain just fine on it, and the bike inspires confidence.

After trying a Canyon Spectral AL 6 for 3 rides and realizing it was too much travel of a bike for most of the local trails, I sold it and took a 20% loss on it, and bought a new Scalpel Si 5 (the alloy one).

Day 1 with the Scalpel Si: My first impression was, "What the hell did I do wrong?" I had more traction greased up and drunk on a slip-n-slide than with the Schwalbe tires. Kept the bike upright though.

Day 2: Put Conti Cross-Kings on the Scalpel. Rode a favorite trail, busted my knee good sliding out in a turn. Later hit a small (10") hump in the trail and the rear bounced up at the other side of the bump at the wrong time -- did a front-flip and landed squarely on my hydration pack. Discovered front and rear suspension were set to slowest settings -- odd. Have no recollection of setting it up like that.

Day 3: Knee hurt, but not bad enough to stop me from dragging out the Superfly Singlespeed again. So the trails are dry here because it's a record for dry weather in August-September here--I definitely slid around a bit. That said, I still feel like I was handling on rails compared to the Scalpel Si.

Day 4: Set the Scalpel's rebound settings for smack in the middle of the range, and took on a trail I used to hate on the Singlespeed. Somehow nailed a few personal records on the Scalpel. That said, I busted my other knee sliding out in a corner.

Day 5: Riding with a buddy. Light braking that the Singlespeed could easily tolerate kicked the Scalpel into a major slide downhill. Releasing the brake immediately got the tire rolling again, but the the wheel was already pointed the wrong way, so I slid down the hill. Need to take a day off and let some skin grow back.

Current Thoughts: I refuse to believe that a steep, fully-rigid singlespeed handles better than the Scalpel Si. I regrettably also refuse to believe that the ultra-dry, dusty, loose-gravel-everywhere trail conditions are contributing 100% to the poor traction. I think technique is to blame. I say that because, well, trust me, I'm a fat, ugly, out of shape bastard, but on some of the roughest of trails before, I've pissed off snobby teenagers on full suspension bikes on both the uphills and on the downhills--I've just pointed the rigid singlespeed where I wanted it to go, looked through the turns like I learned in the motorcycle class, and hovered about 2" above the seat with the legs in "spring mode" at the knees, and the bike just hugged every surface, no matter the roots, gravel, sand, hardpack, etc., but on this damned Scalpel, the least bit of loose stuff on the trail throws me off.

A small portion of me wonders if I'm thinking the bike has no traction because the suspension is stopping the terrain's "chatter" from reaching my hands like it does on the rigid fork of the singlespeed.

The larger portion of me just thinks I'm an idiot who bought more bike than I'll ever deserve.
 
#21 ·
Well I would have to say make sure you are getting 25mm sag front and rear in a standing aggressive position standing still. I got blasted up above for this advice but I still say I’m right and have had others try and agree...if the bars are to wide for your body type, the bike could feel unstable. Depending on your height and shoulder width, you might want to move your grips in to make the bars 700mm and try it out. Don’t cut the bars until you try it so you can revert. Make sure the tire pressure is low for traction. Not sure what your tires are but the Racing Ralph’s didn’t provide traction for me. I’m a Maxxis fan. If dampening is to high, it might not be returning in time for the next bump.
 
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