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  1. #1
    YRG
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    Riot Compared to Evil

    Noticed in the Riot thread a few Following owners are happy switching over to the Canfield. I would really love some in depth comparisons between the Riot and Following. Anyone coming over from an Enduro 29? Would also love to hear thought from you as well. I've already sifted through the 125+ pages of the Riot thread and think might make a better separate thread.

  2. #2
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    You can't pay attention to the opinions of some of these guys... They just have the money to play Captain Cool on the interwebs. These guys are jumping from one trendy cool bike to the next. These guys always saying how great the bikes are, then moving on to the next boutique, indie, game changer. Most of these guys aren't chasing performance, they're just into having something someone else doesn't.

    Not saying the Ibis Ripley, Canfield Riot, Evil Following, Banshee Prime, Banshee Phantom etc. are terrible bikes in any way. Just pointing out an MTBR trend... Like must have shorter stays! Where are the sub 16" CS 29ers?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Not saying the Ibis Ripley, Canfield Riot, Evil Following, Banshee Prime, Banshee Phantom etc. are terrible bikes in any way. Just pointing out an MTBR trend... Like must have shorter stays! Where are the sub 16" CS 29ers?
    The Riot------ 16.3
    The EPO------ 16.3
    Yelli Screamy-- 16.7
    Nimble9------ 16.25-16.9

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    Riot Compared to Evil-image.jpg

  5. #5
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    Sweet

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    You can't pay attention to the opinions of some of these guys... They just have the money to play Captain Cool on the interwebs. These guys are jumping from one trendy cool bike to the next. These guys always saying how great the bikes are, then moving on to the next boutique, indie, game changer. Most of these guys aren't chasing performance, they're just into having something someone else doesn't.

    Not saying the Ibis Ripley, Canfield Riot, Evil Following, Banshee Prime, Banshee Phantom etc. are terrible bikes in any way. Just pointing out an MTBR trend... Like must have shorter stays! Where are the sub 16" CS 29ers?
    Bitter much? Good grief.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chunkylover53 View Post
    15.75

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Short rear - but also short front? Does look good for touring but not really for shredding!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Bitter much? Good grief.

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    No kidding!!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsullivan View Post
    No kidding!!
    No one buy new bikes! It will be great for the industry!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    You can't pay attention to the opinions of some of these guys... They just have the money to play Captain Cool on the interwebs. These guys are jumping from one trendy cool bike to the next. These guys always saying how great the bikes are, then moving on to the next boutique, indie, game changer. Most of these guys aren't chasing performance, they're just into having something someone else doesn't.

    Not saying the Ibis Ripley, Canfield Riot, Evil Following, Banshee Prime, Banshee Phantom etc. are terrible bikes in any way. Just pointing out an MTBR trend... Like must have shorter stays! Where are the sub 16" CS 29ers?
    Agree wholeheartedly... The opinions of guys that flip bikes almost monthly mean nothing to me because they have no real stake in the discussion.

  11. #11
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    I mean, I went from a Following to a Riot but in the grand scheme of things, I've had 4 MTBs over 7 years so I wouldn't call myself a constant bike flipper. I was just curious enough after trying to Following to get a Riot as the geo looked like it added up to a more rounded package over the Following. My Following frame is still here at home so it's not as though I just sold it off willy nilly and am raving about the Riot just because it's the "newest" in my collection. If I felt the Following was a better bike for me then I'd sell my Riot frame and keep the Following. Now the Following is an amazing bike no doubt. In fact it's hard to get a bad bike these days but the Riot geometry feels better for me and that's all I need to know.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    Agree wholeheartedly... The opinions of guys that flip bikes almost monthly mean nothing to me because they have no real stake in the discussion.
    How so? I don't get my bikes for free. Riding/owner more bikes makes your opinion less valid? Please explain. I'm not looking to sling mud, but it seems I'm late to that party.

  13. #13
    YRG
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    Following, Ripley, HD3, Enduro, RFX, Can Diggle, .......
    So I am a flipper I guess and don't really care if my opinion doesn't matter. I would like to hear something from someone going from a Following to a Riot or an Enduro 29 to a riot.
    Collin+M, I did read your stuff in the other thread and noticed other folks going from Evil to Bro's. That is what caught my eye.
    But what the hell, this is mtbr. Let's b!tch, argue and soapbox

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by YRG View Post
    Let's b!tch, argue and soapbox
    Love it! Right up my ally. But I really couldn't be bothered. The big reppers are always right

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    To be honest, the only input I truly value these days in fast dudes who ride where I ride. That said, I think any input from riders who have experienced a number of bikes is more valuable than those who haven't.

    I happen to be one of those guys. But I've found that -- though expensive -- riding a bunch of different rigs is a sure way to figure out what you like.

    I had a Following. Didn't like it. Currently back on an E29. Still one of the most awesome bikes ever if you have the terrain for it.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    To be honest, the only input I truly value these days in fast dudes who ride where I ride. That said, I think any input from riders who have experienced a number of bikes is more valuable than those who haven't..
    I've found that the guys who are fast are fast no matter what. To me the most insightful input is finding people with similar preferences, or who can explain what they did and didn't like about bikes, and what tradeoffs they were happy to make and how this made their bike choice ideal for them.

    For my part, I'm glad I haven't had the chance to compare the two - best case I'm out the price of one - realistically I'll somehow be out the cost of both, plus an EPO.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehllama View Post
    I've found that the guys who are fast are fast no matter what. To me the most insightful input is finding people with similar preferences, or who can explain what they did and didn't like about bikes, and what tradeoffs they were happy to make and how this made their bike choice ideal for them.

    For my part, I'm glad I haven't had the chance to compare the two - best case I'm out the price of one - realistically I'll somehow be out the cost of both, plus an EPO.
    Yea, finding someone with similar beliefs and values who posts their honest thoughts is worth way more than a dozen hype machine.

    Also, regarding short CS trend, Walt found the apparent limit and posted his thoughts on it: Waltworks Bicycles: Totally Unbiased Review: Stupidmobile (also 29+ FS Braap – real-world “testing” (riding) | )

  18. #18
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    Riot Compared to Evil

    There are so many good bikes out there today almost as many as there are good, fast riders.
    The reality that I've found is there is no ONE bike to do it all. Some come close like the E29, Riot, Following and a few others but I think what we've all found is some bikes work better for some riders than others and owning and riding many bikes helps you figure out what's best for you. I don't tend to flip bikes too fast and I like my current quiver but the new geo bikes has me wanting a big bike again so we'll see where that goes. I can also see myself on the EPO but I know I have a bike problem and it might require a 12 step program.

  19. #19
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    My 12 step program usually ends with a hole in my wallet and a shiny new build in the shed

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    How so? I don't get my bikes for free. Riding/owner more bikes makes your opinion less valid? Please explain. I'm not looking to sling mud, but it seems I'm late to that party.
    It's not a personal thing.


    The guy that agonizes over the decision, knowing he has to live with it for at least a few seasons, is what I like to read. I could afford more bikes, be a flipper, but I've got other priorities. This is MTBR - every new bike is the hotness, and if you're someone that has ridden and expounded their love for ALL of them... you've got no real stake in any of them. What you're riding reflects no risk, no real forethought, and doesn't likely reflect what you're riding next season.

    The guy that needs to be careful? He's weighed his options to get where he is, and if he's got an issue, we're going to hear about it, because he's got to deal with it.

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    I hear what your saying, but I think you're oversimplifying the decision making process...at least for me personally. I do a ton of research prior to making a purchase.

    On the contrary, someone who has to "live with" a bike for a few years might look at the purchase through rose colored glasses...especially if exposure to other bikes is limited.

    I'm not saying either course is better than another, but to paint people in a negative light simply because they like flipping bikes every season isn't needed. But hey, it's the Internet

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  22. #22
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    Its too bad this thread turned to sh!t.

    These are two very new bikes and both are not something you can just walk into you lbs and pick off the shelf...which means not many people are going to have had a chance at owning both yet.

    If you have opinions about the bikes, and not about the people who own them...please post. Otherwise feel free to get lost.

  23. #23
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    double post
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    You can't pay attention to the opinions of some of these guys... They just have the money to play Captain Cool on the interwebs. These guys are jumping from one trendy cool bike to the next. These guys always saying how great the bikes are, then moving on to the next boutique, indie, game changer. Most of these guys aren't chasing performance, they're just into having something someone else doesn't.

    Not saying the Ibis Ripley, Canfield Riot, Evil Following, Banshee Prime, Banshee Phantom etc. are terrible bikes in any way. Just pointing out an MTBR trend... Like must have shorter stays! Where are the sub 16" CS 29ers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    It's not a personal thing.


    The guy that agonizes over the decision, knowing he has to live with it for at least a few seasons, is what I like to read. I could afford more bikes, be a flipper, but I've got other priorities. This is MTBR - every new bike is the hotness, and if you're someone that has ridden and expounded their love for ALL of them... you've got no real stake in any of them. What you're riding reflects no risk, no real forethought, and doesn't likely reflect what you're riding next season.

    The guy that needs to be careful? He's weighed his options to get where he is, and if he's got an issue, we're going to hear about it, because he's got to deal with it.
    I disagree. I bought my Specialized SJ just because it's what I had in the past. If you read my reviews of it, they were positive. It was my first 29er. Once my LBS got a Tallboy demo in, I took it out for a ride. That instantly brought out the short comings of the SJ. If I hadn't ridden the TB, I wouldn't have known any different and still telling people how great it was, like the reviews you prefer.

    So how is getting an opinion about a bike from someone that hasn't ridden many going to help? They can't tell you what is better about it vs. something else. I can pretty much tell you what I liked about FSR and what I didn't. I can tell you what I liked about VPP and what I didn't. Soon I'll be able to tell you what I like about the Riot and what I don't and I can do that in a comparison of them all and from months ride time on each not just a a demo ride.

    Heck I can already tell you I personally think the seat tube is too long on the Riot and they need to shave an inch off.

    So in looking for an opinion I look for someone that's ridden a bunch of bike, not 2. Having someone say bike A is the best when that's all they've ridden- useless.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I hear what your saying, but I think you're oversimplifying the decision making process...at least for me personally. I do a ton of research prior to making a purchase.
    You can't be serious. I wasn't going to call anyone out specifically but you never fail to be your own champion. Your research extends about as far as "how Indie cool can I be on the internet" or " will I be both the first person to both buy and sell a frame?"

    It's not that I cannot afford to also buy and sell several bikes or that I think people shouldn't try new bikes...

    You are a perpetual hype generator for products that you sell before half of the people on this forum even find out about the last frame you sold. All of your reviews are glowing and there are plenty of minty fresh new bike photos. Sweet! I love bike porn too! It would be one thing if you flipped one or two bikes a season but you flip so many and they're all so different that your opinion is pretty much meaningless. It's hard to listen to someone both say a bike was great and hear that you sold it in the same breath. The only thing that the frames you buy and sell have in common is that they're all the lastest trendy/indie frames.

    I honestly had no idea you were on this frame but I should have. If the shoe fits I guess.

    What exactly are you looking for in a bike that the last six frames didn't do? You type out all sorts of advice and opinion but then you no longer own any of these bikes. What is it your really trying to do? The cool expert on the interwebs who has owned all the sick bikes?
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    So in looking for an opinion I look for someone that's ridden a bunch of bike, not 2. Having someone say bike A is the best when that's all they've ridden- useless.
    It's about as useful as a flipper that says everything they've ridden is great... Which is the problem. Guys like Colin+m never have anything bad to say because they don't want to hurt the indie bike company sales or resale of the bike frame that's going to be for sales in a few weeks...

    The truth is no bike is the best. what I want to hear out of someone who has actually ridden literally ALL of the latest and greatest to be honest about both the benefits AND pitfalls of a design. We have plenty of bike mags to help sell bikes and hype new stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I disagree. I bought my Specialized SJ just because it's what I had in the past. If you read my reviews of it, they were positive. It was my first 29er. Once my LBS got a Tallboy demo in, I took it out for a ride. That instantly brought out the short comings of the SJ. If I hadn't ridden the TB, I wouldn't have known any different and still telling people how great it was, like the reviews you prefer.

    So how is getting an opinion about a bike from someone that hasn't ridden many going to help? They can't tell you what is better about it vs. something else. I can pretty much tell you what I liked about FSR and what I didn't. I can tell you what I liked about VPP and what I didn't. Soon I'll be able to tell you what I like about the Riot and what I don't and I can do that in a comparison of them all and from months ride time on each not just a a demo ride.

    Heck I can already tell you I personally think the seat tube is too long on the Riot and they need to shave an inch off.

    So in looking for an opinion I look for someone that's ridden a bunch of bike, not 2. Having someone say bike A is the best when that's all they've ridden- useless.
    I agree with the comment that opinions of those that have actually ridden the bikes in question are good. I'm in favor of relevant experience, its just a balance with the context of that experience.

    And I agree on the seat post part.

    I'm out of this thread...not going to get any better.

  27. #27
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    I'm just trying to be as cool as you.

    Not that I have to explain myself, but what the hell...I had 2 bikes last year and the Riot makes number 2 for this year.

    I don't live in an area where I can just demo whatever bike I want, so if I want to try it I have to buy it. Some bikes are better than others, but I'd say most of the ones I've owned have been incrementally better since I look to climb the ladder of bike design instead of walking into my local Trek dealer and buying whatever they happen to be selling. I like to try new bikes and I don't want to ride bikes that are a dime a dozen.

    I'd consider myself a bike enthusiast. So sue me. Does that mean that I don't know what I'm talking about? Hardly.

    I came into this thread because someone wanted to know about the 2 bikes I've owned and ridden exclusively since mid January. Obviously your intentions for posting were different.

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I'm just trying to be as cool as you.
    You came in this thread like someone was calling you out personally...

    So how about we get that comparison? Please compare the Riot to the Following, the Prime and the Phantom too. Didn't you also have a Ripley, a Lunchbox and a Tallboy?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    I agree with the comment that opinions of those that have actually ridden the bikes in question are good. I'm in favor of relevant experience, its just a balance with the context of that experience.

    And I agree on the seat post part.

    I'm out of this thread...not going to get any better.
    Agreed. I never had an issue with your posts.

    The issue I had was with GTR accusing anyone who buys more than one bike a year of being just a poseur looking for Internet street cred. Unsolicited and contributing nothing of value.

    I'm out as well.

    To the O.P., I posted a comparison in the Riot thread.

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    You came in this thread like someone was calling you out personally...

    So how about we get that comparison? Please compare the Riot to the Following, the Prime and the Phantom too. Didn't you also have a Ripley and a Tallboy?
    It sorta felt like it.

    It was a Tallboy LTc to be exact

    I posted a fairly in depth comparison already between the Riot and Following. I'd be glad to compare the others if I thought you were serious.



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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    It sorta felt like it.
    Good to know MTBR revolves around you I guess.

  32. #32
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    Dude. What's your problem? At least I try to make posts that are intended to be helpful.

    Why are you here? Have you ridden a Following or Riot?

    I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Dude. What's your problem? At least I try to make posts that are intended to be helpful.
    You have not posted one relevant bit of information and have only are interested in supposedly defending yourself. If you're such an expert, why do you insist on only trying to argue with my initial post?

    Just want to forewarn folks that most of these opinions are going to be extremely biased... People decide how they're going to spend their REAL money based on what YOU post here.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Good to know MTBR revolves around you I guess.
    I'm one of 2 people that have gone from a Following to the Riot from the thread the O.P. was referencing. I had a 50/50 chance of you referring to me. So don't pull that 'Bette Davis eyes' crap.

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    I
    You have not posted one relevant bit of information and have only are interested in supposedly defending yourself. If you're such an expert, why do you insist on only trying to argue with my initial post?
    And you have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I'm one of 2 people that have gone from a Following to the Riot from the thread the O.P. was referencing. I had a 50/50 chance of you referring to me. So don't pull that 'Bette Davis eyes' crap.

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    Can you be any more arrogant? I didn't read that thread and I don't follow you around MTBR. Don't be a fool.

  37. #37
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    You must be fun at parties. I'm done. You win.

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  38. #38
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    Riot Compared to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    Its too bad this thread turned to sh!t.

    These are two very new bikes and both are not something you can just walk into you lbs and pick off the shelf...which means not many people are going to have had a chance at owning both yet.

    If you have opinions about the bikes, and not about the people who own them...please post. Otherwise feel free to get lost.
    Man you called that right. Oh well let's see if we can get this back on track for the OP and others interested.
    I can't comment on the Riot as I have not ridden it but I'm interested in the bike because of its geometry and intended use as a LT29 and an all-rounder.
    I own The Following in a small, the geo and sizing fits me well as I have a proportionately balanced build so the seat tube angle and stack height work well for me. After riding this bike for over 1000+ miles I feel I have a good and objective handle in its strengths and weaknesses.
    I had been altering a couple 29ers, (Intense Spiders) over the last 4 years using the CC Angleset to slacken them out and run a longer fork and burlier build to make them more AM bikes. It worked well for me although I was wanting another lower stack, lower BB bike.
    When the Following came out it was in my radar but I'm not one be to be the earliest adopter. I got one on the second run and built it in May. It works well for me, it's real goat of a climber and plays into one of my assets being fairly lightweight and strong. It's a great cornering bike with low center of gravity and slack head angle. It's also a lively bike with its shorter travel and higher leverage rate so it has good pop off pretty much anything you'd want to boost off of.
    It really does well in most terrain from flowy fast and smooth to steep and technical. The only real chink in this bikes armor is its composure in fast chunky terrain when heading downhill on and off the brakes. It tends to stiffen up a bit in braking on square edge stuff at speed. This is due to the short travel, higher leverage rate and it's single pivot design.
    Overall it's a great bike for me, low, slack, stiff and fast. I feel it's a better bike for me and my riding style than the Riot would be, so I feel I have the best bike of what I've seen in the market place at this time. Things are changing all the time so who knows what's next. I keep my bikes on average of 3-4 years so we'll see what's coming down the pike.

  39. #39
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    I don't know any of the people in this thread or if they can actually ride a bike well. What I have learned is that GTR33 is a windbag that might possibly have a mental problem. Go out and ride whatever bike you have, dude; you're wound way too tight.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I don't know any of the people in this thread or if they can actually ride a bike well. What I have learned is that GTR33 is a windbag that might possibly have a mental problem. Go out and ride whatever bike you have, dude; you're wound way too tight.
    Haha, spot on man. Riding is great therapy!

  41. #41
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    Yes, sir. I'm off. The weather in Phoenix is gorgeous. And National trail is calling my name. And it doesn't matter which bike I take. Either that trail is going to eat my lunch or I'm going to eat its.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    So how about we get that comparison? Please compare the Riot to the Following, the Prime and the Phantom too.
    He's already done that ...

  43. #43
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    Riot Compared to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Yes, sir. I'm off. The weather in Phoenix is gorgeous. And National trail is calling my name. And it doesn't matter which bike I take. Either that trail is going to eat my lunch or I'm going to eat its.
    Great, go out there and give'r! Keep the rubber side down, well except when throwing a table or getting rowdy off a booter.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    And you have?

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    FFS!
    Would you two go get a f**king room already, and get it the HELL off of this thread!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    You can't be serious. I wasn't going to call anyone out specifically but you never fail to be your own champion. Your research extends about as far as "how Indie cool can I be on the internet" or " will I be both the first person to both buy and sell a frame?"

    It's not that I cannot afford to also buy and sell several bikes or that I think people shouldn't try new bikes...

    You are a perpetual hype generator for products that you sell before half of the people on this forum even find out about the last frame you sold. All of your reviews are glowing and there are plenty of minty fresh new bike photos. Sweet! I love bike porn too! It would be one thing if you flipped one or two bikes a season but you flip so many and they're all so different that your opinion is pretty much meaningless. It's hard to listen to someone both say a bike was great and hear that you sold it in the same breath. The only thing that the frames you buy and sell have in common is that they're all the lastest trendy/indie frames.

    I honestly had no idea you were on this frame but I should have. If the shoe fits I guess.

    What exactly are you looking for in a bike that the last six frames didn't do? You type out all sorts of advice and opinion but then you no longer own any of these bikes. What is it your really trying to do? The cool expert on the interwebs who has owned all the sick bikes?

    It's about as useful as a flipper that says everything they've ridden is great... Which is the problem. Guys like Colin+m never have anything bad to say because they don't want to hurt the indie bike company sales or resale of the bike frame that's going to be for sales in a few weeks...

    The truth is no bike is the best. what I want to hear out of someone who has actually ridden literally ALL of the latest and greatest to be honest about both the benefits AND pitfalls of a design. We have plenty of bike mags to help sell bikes and hype new stuff.
    I hate to contribute to the derailment of this thread, but I kinda agree with this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    You have not posted one relevant bit of information and have only are interested in supposedly defending yourself. If you're such an expert, why do you insist on only trying to argue with my initial post?

    Just want to forewarn folks that most of these opinions are going to be extremely biased... People decide how they're going to spend their REAL money based on what YOU post here.
    GTR-33 - I know this is completely off topic, but do you happen to remember the name of that Gin Blossoms song from the late 80's? Not sure where my hankering for '80's trivia came from or why I am asking you, but it seemed appropriate nonetheless.

    Carry on all! Love hearing the comparisons.

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    The bike is neither a Riot nor a Following. But maybe seeing some trail stoke on a Monday morning will be helpful.

    E29 with an Ohlins coil. Monday morning in Phoenix. 75 degrees, sunny and I didn't have to work. Trails = empty. If you've ridden/seen/heard of National trail, you'll probably recognize the bottom of the infamous Waterfall obstacle.

    IMG_0857 by dbozman1173, on Flickr
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  48. #48
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    Beautiful.

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    is that a ttx off the eve or is that a correct stroke shock that they offer now? i had the ttx off an evo on my s works 650 for awhile

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    The bike is neither a Riot nor a Following. But maybe seeing some trail stoke on a Monday morning will be helpful.

    E29 with an Ohlins coil. Monday morning in Phoenix. 75 degrees, sunny and I didn't have to work. Trails = empty. If you've ridden/seen/heard of National trail, you'll probably recognize the bottom of the infamous Waterfall obstacle.
    Nice! Good chunky terrain and empty to boot. You planned that well and your bike has a halo around it!
    I know the Ohlins are great shocks but divine guidance?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    The bike is neither a Riot nor a Following. But maybe seeing some trail stoke on a Monday morning will be helpful.

    E29 with an Ohlins coil. Monday morning in Phoenix. 75 degrees, sunny and I didn't have to work. Trails = empty. If you've ridden/seen/heard of National trail, you'll probably recognize the bottom of the infamous Waterfall obstacle.

    IMG_0857 by dbozman1173, on Flickr
    so awesome, thats my dream day of riding right there. I really dig the E29 too, it's been one of my personal benchmarks for a great AM rig since I first got to really see what one could do. Probably would have wound up with a new one if I hadnt gotten turned on to the brothers. Thanks for the stoke!

  52. #52
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    I might be the only guy to have a Following and Riot in the garage at the same time, albeit the Following is not built. So I decided I'd so some rudimentary science by taking a picture of the Following frame in front of the Riot to try and visualise the geometry differences.

    I held the frame so that the BB was lined up equally and the rear axle was at the same height. The obvious differences look like the STA and the CS length. The seat tube is a little taller on the Riot but it's a bit hard to tell as the camera distorts the image a bit.

    Obviously this isn't exact science so take it as you will, but I thought I'd try and contribute a little something more than bickering in this thread lol




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    hey thanks for that Phil, really interesting see how close they are. I assume both are medium frames?

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    Correct, both mediums

  55. #55
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    Cool idea and comparison!



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  56. #56
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    This really shows how short that Riot is out back.

  57. #57
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    Nice pics. Interesting to see how the two bikes differ, If only in a single picture.

    If I have learned anything from MTBR it is that everyone has an opinion about everything and people tend to talk a lot bigger when then are hiding behind a computer screen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slider_phil View Post
    I might be the only guy to have a Following and Riot in the garage at the same time, albeit the Following is not built.
    Sweet Photos! Thanks for taking the time! It's nice to see the differences visually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    E29 with an Ohlins coil.
    Definitely drool worthy!
    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    If I have learned anything from MTBR it is that everyone has an opinion about everything and people tend to talk a lot bigger when then are hiding behind a computer screen.
    Says the guy handing out neg reps... lol really?

  59. #59
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    Thought you guys might get a kick outta this.

    Its definitely fun! 3.0 up front 2.35 Ikon in back on Derby 35's.

  60. #60
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    That looks like a ton of fun!

    What's the width of the Chupa on the Roval Fattie?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    Thought you guys might get a kick outta this.

    Its definitely fun! 3.0 up front 2.35 Ikon in back on Derby 35's.
    ooh sweet ride man!

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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    Thought you guys might get a kick outta this.
    Now that's an interesting build! 120mm RS1 on there? That fork looks kinda right on that frame.

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    That is bad ass. I haven't swung a leg over an rs1, but I kind of have a thing for all that carbon...looks nice.

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    So honest question since I haven't followed anything on that fork, is it any good?- all I remember was the video floating around of someone holding the wheel between the legs and being able to twist the crap out of it moving the bars.
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  65. #65
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    Riot Compared to Evil

    It's a pretty sweet fork really. You need to be aggressive with the Maxle, it also helps to have stiff wheels.! The fork is super plush for 120 and very stiff fore/ aft and laterally. Like I said and SRAM recommends being aggressive in tightening the Maxle.
    Ask Mike C what he thinks of it, he's got two of them.
    Im not sure what wimpy wheel they had or if they even tightened the Maxle but that video was a joke!
    The bike is super fun and I weighed it for kicks before riding 26.75 lbs. with my flats.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    That looks like a ton of fun!

    What's the width of the Chupa on the Roval Fattie?
    The wheels are SRAM PS 28h front, I9 28h rear, Derby 35 XC (I weigh 145). The Chupacabra is 75mm on the button on these wheels. Plenty wide enough for the plus.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erock503 View Post
    ooh sweet ride man!
    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Now that's an interesting build! 120mm RS1 on there? That fork looks kinda right on that frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    That is bad ass. I haven't swung a leg over an rs1, but I kind of have a thing for all that carbon...looks nice.
    Thanks guys, 1st day on this build, stellar day so I sampled a bit of riding with it and damn it's really fun and it weights 26.75 lbs.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    It's a pretty sweet fork really. You need to be aggressive with the Maxle, it also helps to have stiff wheels.! The fork is super plush for 120 and very stiff fore/ aft and laterally. Like I said and SRAM recommends being aggressive in tightening the Maxle.
    Ask Mike C what he thinks of it, he's got two of them.
    Im not sure what wimpy wheel they had or if they even tightened the Maxle but that video was a joke!
    The bike is super fun and I weighed it for kicks before riding 26.75 lbs. with my flats.
    Well you can't blame a wimpy wheel when it was the fork moving, not the wheel.
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    Riot Compared to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Well you can't blame a wimpy wheel when it was the fork moving, not the wheel.
    Yes you can and the torsional stiffness is in direct correlation to the clamping forces on the predictive steering hub with the Maxle. Like I said you have to be aggressive with the Maxle and have stiff wheels. Mike's 195 and he likes them on his chunky Grand Junction terrain. He's using the 32 hole version of the 35 XC Derby.

    I also didn't say it was as torsionally stiff as my Stage or Pike but it's as stiff in every other regard. If you try to flex it torsionally it twists a bit but you can really feel the carbon winding up and it wants to snap back quickly.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTR-33 View Post
    Now that's an interesting build! 120mm RS1 on there? That fork looks kinda right on that frame.
    I agree. The burly headtube of the Riot blends in nicely with the crown of the fork.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I agree. The burly headtube of the Riot blends in nicely with the crown of the fork.
    Come on Colin they can't run together!

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    I spent my morning pouring over Collin's posts to find his comparison between the following and his Riot. I'm posting it here so no one else has to muddle through the massive Riot thread to find it, since it was never posted due to the pissing contest this thread turned into.....




    So my initial thoughts are that a Mountain Goat, Cadillac and Bulldozer had a bike baby and named it "Riot". It is a catepillar on the tech climbs, super plush and built like a brick shithouse.

    My fears that I was going to be "overbiked" for my trails with a 140mm/66.5 head angle bike were quelled very quickly today. Even though on paper the wheelbase is slightly longer on the Riot compared to the Evil, the opposite proved true in the saddle. I remember when I first sat on my Following, I thought "holy crap the front wheel is waaayyy out there" and I didn't have that sensation with the Riot. Maybe I was used to it after riding the Evil for so long? I don't know, but I will say the Riot felt very natural and neutral in a very good way. You feel perfectly centered and balanced between the wheels.

    The suspension of the Riot and Following are very different as well. Both pedal exceptionally well, both have gobs of traction although I'd give the edge to the Riot on the traction and overall acceleration to the Evil(as it should be since it's lighter and has much higher anti-squat numbers). The Evil always felt like to me that it was an excellent pump track/jump line bike and boy oh boy did it excel at those types of trails. The one place I didn't feel that it did as well was in the babyheads and roots, both at low and high speed. I had a certain element of nervousness at speed due to the fact that I felt like I was getting bounced around some. This was improved some with the Avy tune for my Monarch, but still not quite what I was after.

    One thing the Evil is great at is out of the saddle efforts on climbs and sprints. I spent more time out of the saddle on the Evil than I had ever done before simply because it awards that type of frenzied approach. That's fine for the most part, but I didn't feel as enthused once the terrain roughened up. I felt like I was skimming over chunk instead of eating it up. Some people might like that "hold onto your hat" type sensation, but I prefer to feel more in control and the Riot provides.

    The Riot does well out of the saddle as well, but the overall feel is much different. Now take this with a grain of salt as I have the Woodie on the Riot, but the Evil feels much more progressive overall. I would liken it to a tightly wound spring or a F1 race car. This is great when you're all about speed/pumping the trail and the terrain is fairly smooth, but you wouldn't go rock crawling in a F1 car.

    In comparison, the Riot pedals remarkably well and I didn't notice any significant bobbing either in or out of the saddle even the the *gasp* coil shock. I did notice that I need to add a few psi/LSC to my fork as that was the only monkey motion I noticed on harder pedaling efforts.

    I went out today fully expecting to find the Riot leaving me longing for the Evil on the climbs, but I can honestly say that it gives up nothing to the Evil in that regard. I'd even say that the Riot has better traction both on in and out of the saddle climbs. Some of that is probably due to the Woodie, but you can't put a Woodie on the Evil so that's still a point in the Canfield column as far as I'm concerned. On the scale my Following was 28.9 pounds and my Riot is 32.3, but I didn't notice the extra weight at all except when going through rock gardens and descending. Sometimes extra weight in the right places is a good thing and the Riot felt more composed overall. I'd gladly give up a few pounds for that.

    Speaking of the Woodie in particular, it is as advertised. It hugs the ground. Eats roots and rocks, stays in the sweet spot of the travel and just disappears underneath you. Great midstroke support and pedals remarkably well. It's heavy, but it is worth it for me with our trails strewn with rocks/roots here in the Southeast. Craig knows his stuff.

    I also like the seat angle on the Riot more than the Evil. I find it's easier to weight the front wheel while seated and my back was pretty happy today. It keeps you very centered and I didn't feel like I was steering from my back wheel as much. If the Riot suffers from front wheel flop, the Evil must have more because I didn't find it to be vague on steering. I actually thought it did better than the Evil on slow speed turning even though it's a tad slacker up front. On climbing with the Evil I noticed that I either had to really slide forward on the saddle or just stand up. The slacker seat angle combined with the lower stack height on the Evil really pushed the limit of comfort for me as a mere mortal/weekend warrior. The Riot is much more comfortable overall, in both geometry and suspension feel.

    Also Canfield's Formula design is pretty damn impressive. It's one of the plushest bikes that I've ridden, yet still pedals very efficiently. It also feels very neutral while hammering through whatever terrain you come across. I can't say that the Evil was as neutral feeling in either pedaling through chunk or while braking. The Formula suspension just plain works. It doesn't exhibit any bad behaviors, it just does it's job. It feels the same no matter what you're riding through.

    The Riot just feels damn solid. It is very confidence inspiring to just plow through a rock garden knowing you're gonna come out the other side without too much drama. It tracks true and is a very stiff frame. People always talk about the muting properties of carbon frames, but the Riot was much more effective and smoothed out the trail.

    Also, it was dead quiet. Just the sound of tires tearing dirt and the buzz of the freehub. No rattling of cables, various carbon noise gremlins or creaking.

    I didn't do a ton of prolonged descents today, but the Riot is just as fast and just as nimble as the Evil. It rails berms, pops off jumps, feels neutral in the air and handles switchbacks(both up and down) with ease. I'd even say that the Riot feels more compact while seated likely due to the steeper seat angle.

    If I were to give out awards, I'd give the Evil Following the "Best carbon trail bike" award and the Riot! would be "Best in Show". It really is that good. It's amazing how far 29er's have come in the past 5 years. I really can't think of anything the Riot didn't do well. It feels just at home on flatland trails as it does on climbs and of course it handles the downs with ease.

    So my advice would be to snatch one up from Canfield before they're all gone

    If you're obsessed with weight, then yes the Evil is lighter. If you're obsessed with bikes, the Riot is your huckleberry.

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    Solid, well composed review. I enjoyed reading it. I've never ridden a Following but your review put me in the saddle...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Solid, well composed review. I enjoyed reading it. I've never ridden a Following but your review put me in the saddle...
    Thanks. After having more saddle time on the Riot I wouldn't change a thing.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Thanks. After having more saddle time on the Riot I wouldn't change a thing.
    Ha,lol! I thought that was pking's review. I even rep'd him lol. After re-reading the first paragraph I now see what was done.

  76. #76
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    Haha 😂

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  77. #77
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    pking deserves a + rep just for digging through the pages to find that. I rep'd Collin for ya, haha.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike View Post
    pking deserves a + rep just for digging through the pages to find that. I rep'd Collin for ya, haha.
    That was my thought as well. I dropped Collin a rep as well (mainly because I thought he really needs it )

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike View Post
    pking deserves a + rep just for digging through the pages to find that. I rep'd Collin for ya, haha.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    That was my thought as well. I dropped Collin a rep as well (mainly because I thought he really needs it )
    My thoughts exactly!

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    Just want to reanimate the topic as I am very interested in an comparison of the Banshee Prime either with the Riot or the Following.
    As I am an Prime owner I am still blasted how well this bike ripps especially when charging hard. So I am definitely not going for easy touring rides and am quite happy with the Prime. But both bikes - Following and Riot - get quite a lot of attention as they seem to have good suspension combined with modern geometrie.
    So, if anyone of the audience does have experience with the Prime in comparison with both bikes please share your thoughts about it.

  81. #81
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    I had a Prime for about a year, followed by a Following The Riot combines the stiffness and plowability of the Prime, but with the agility and playfulness of the Following. The Riot really is the best of both bikes rolled into one. It really feels like a DH bike once it's up to speed. The suspension pedals as good or better than the Prime and feels much more bottomless and neutral.

    If you like your Prime, you'll love the Riot.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I had a Prime for about a year, followed by a Following The Riot combines the stiffness and plowability of the Prime, but with the agility and playfulness of the Following. The Riot really is the best of both bikes rolled into one. It really feels like a DH bike once it's up to speed. The suspension pedals as good or better than the Prime and feels much more bottomless and neutral.

    If you like your Prime, you'll love the Riot.
    Man, I can't wait to ride my new Riot but with this snow it looks like a month away....Have you or anyone ridden a 26" bike in a while? Just curious how different feeling the Riot is compared as I am beyond eager to find out but must wait. I could be wrong but it just seems like the geometry won't be as 29er feeling/looking. I have a buddy on a Intense Spider 29er and he looks pretty goofy riding it.

  83. #83
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    I've been on 29 inch wheels for 6 straight years. My buddy still rides a 26 and it just feels goofy to me now, of course his is at least one size too small for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mayha View Post
    Man, I can't wait to ride my new Riot but with this snow it looks like a month away....Have you or anyone ridden a 26" bike in a while? Just curious how different feeling the Riot is compared as I am beyond eager to find out but must wait. I could be wrong but it just seems like the geometry won't be as 29er feeling/looking. I have a buddy on a Intense Spider 29er and he looks pretty goofy riding it.
    I went from an Uprising to the Riot, which is my first 29er. Really, I felt comfortable on it right away. Corners felt a little wonky at first, but I think it was more just getting the suspension dialed in than the bike itself. By the second ride I was PR-ing 90% of my usual trails. It's a phenomenal bike.


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    Quote Originally Posted by skyval View Post
    I went from an Uprising to the Riot, which is my first 29er. Really, I felt comfortable on it right away. Corners felt a little wonky at first, but I think it was more just getting the suspension dialed in than the bike itself. By the second ride I was PR-ing 90% of my usual trails. It's a phenomenal bike.


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    Cheers to that! Can't wait.....They really seem to be getting more playful. This vid really shows how far 29ers have come. Of course Neko is a WC rider and can rip on anything...

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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I've been on 29 inch wheels for 6 straight years. My buddy still rides a 26 and it just feels goofy to me now, of course his is at least one size too small for me.

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    This is the way I feel when I ride my buddy's 26er
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  87. #87
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    Exactly!!!

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  88. #88
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    yes normally that's how i feel on a 26er, but when i race DS this is how i feel on a 29er. granted my skills are still developing as i'm only going into my 3rd season and last season was cut short due to injuries.

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    this was an interesting thread to pick up on. I just sold an uprising to get a balance. Was wanting to try something new after a couple years on the uprising. The balance should be here soon. and I will definitely report back with my comparison. would love to try one of the 29ers these companies are making, but i had a hard enough time convincing myself to move from 26.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by manitou2200 View Post
    There are so many good bikes out there today almost as many as there are good, fast riders.
    The reality that I've found is there is no ONE bike to do it all. Some come close like the E29, Riot, Following and a few others but I think what we've all found is some bikes work better for some riders than others and owning and riding many bikes helps you figure out what's best for you. I don't tend to flip bikes too fast and I like my current quiver but the new geo bikes has me wanting a big bike again so we'll see where that goes. I can also see myself on the EPO but I know I have a bike problem and it might require a 12 step program.
    12 speed program?

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