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  1. #101
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    Latest word is that they're unlikely to sell enough of an XL frame to make it worth a big investment on molds and R&D for it... which totally makes sense since an XL frame would be sized to accommodate the hairless grizzly bears I see on bikes from time to time, and that's a hefty amount of abuse to design around.

    If I was a touch shorter, and found myself restricted to just one bike, this would unquestionably be 'it'... I still might wind up with one of these just because with two wheelsets it can still do 80% of what I want to do with a bike, and then I can have a big heavy bruiser of a 5.5-6" travel 29er bike for the rest (oh, look, the Riot should be shipping fairly soon, what a coincidence). For now I'm holding out for being able to run maximally progressive geometry (35-50mm stem) in this range, since I'd probably turn an all-mountain capable carbon hardtail into a money pit of awesomeness if the right frame were available... and the EPO would be in XL for me.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehllama View Post
    Latest word is that they're unlikely to sell enough of an XL frame to make it worth a big investment on molds and R&D for it... which totally makes sense since an XL frame would be sized to accommodate the hairless grizzly bears I see on bikes from time to time, and that's a hefty amount of abuse to design around.

    If I was a touch shorter, and found myself restricted to just one bike, this would unquestionably be 'it'... I still might wind up with one of these just because with two wheelsets it can still do 80% of what I want to do with a bike, and then I can have a big heavy bruiser of a 5.5-6" travel 29er bike for the rest (oh, look, the Riot should be shipping fairly soon, what a coincidence). For now I'm holding out for being able to run maximally progressive geometry (35-50mm stem) in this range, since I'd probably turn an all-mountain capable carbon hardtail into a money pit of awesomeness if the right frame were available... and the EPO would be in XL for me.
    To clarify, we do plan on bringing an XL into the EPO line, however, as Mediums and Larges make up 80% of our sales, this is where we needed to invest first. Once we sell enough EPO Mediums and Larges to generate the capital to cover the XL mold charges, we will be able to start the process of building our XL's. We certainly didn't want to exclude customers on our new bike, we just needed to invest in the right places first to allow us to grow safely.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    To clarify, we do plan on bringing an XL into the EPO line, however, as Mediums and Larges make up 80% of our sales, this is where we needed to invest first. Once we sell enough EPO Mediums and Larges to generate the capital to cover the XL mold charges, we will be able to start the process of building our XL's. We certainly didn't want to exclude customers on our new bike, we just needed to invest in the right places first to allow us to grow safely.
    I just got all warm and fuzzy inside. Even knowing it'll be a while, thats some really good news. The wookie's like me will have to just be patient.

    Thanks for the update.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    To clarify, we do plan on bringing an XL into the EPO line, however, as Mediums and Larges make up 80% of our sales, this is where we needed to invest first. Once we sell enough EPO Mediums and Larges to generate the capital to cover the XL mold charges, we will be able to start the process of building our XL's. We certainly didn't want to exclude customers on our new bike, we just needed to invest in the right places first to allow us to grow safely.
    Awesome. I really hope enough people get to try the EPO in the two existing sizes (I have a feeling a bike that like will have them hooked)... it'll probably take me that long to have the budget to built it out how I want, but I'm stoked to know that you guys are looking to make what amounts to a unicorn for me.

    Sounds like it'll be worth the wait.

  5. #105
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    does anyone know if this frame is compatible with the Philcentric EBB?

    Thanks

  6. #106
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    I don't usually get into the "should I" type of posts, but this is one I could use some opinions on, so bear with me. I had originally planned on buying a "chiner" and building it up as a second bike to run with my Trek Fuel EX9, and then I stumbled across this frame and immediately fell in love.
    I am now considering buying this frame, and transferring everything off my fuel on to it. Nice build too, fox fork, XO1 drivetrain, XT brakes. So the question is, should I? Do you think this bike could fill the role of both XC bike and trail bike? The only reason I planned on building a chiner is because I wanted something that was more efficient and climbed better than my fuel. So what do you guys think? Should I buy it and cannibalize my fuel or stick with plan A which would leave me with both a FS and a carbon HT. Thanks! Not gonna lie, the idea of a slack, carbon hardtail makes me feel all warm and fuzzy

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter97 View Post
    I don't usually get into the "should I" type of posts, but this is one I could use some opinions on, so bear with me. I had originally planned on buying a "chiner" and building it up as a second bike to run with my Trek Fuel EX9, and then I stumbled across this frame and immediately fell in love.
    I am now considering buying this frame, and transferring everything off my fuel on to it. Nice build too, fox fork, XO1 drivetrain, XT brakes. So the question is, should I? Do you think this bike could fill the role of both XC bike and trail bike? The only reason I planned on building a chiner is because I wanted something that was more efficient and climbed better than my fuel. So what do you guys think? Should I buy it and cannibalize my fuel or stick with plan A which would leave me with both a FS and a carbon HT. Thanks! Not gonna lie, the idea of a slack, carbon hardtail makes me feel all warm and fuzzy
    Full disclosure: I don't own one of these. I would be amazed, though, if the EPO with that geometry ended up being a better XC bike than a Trek Fuel of any variety. It really looks to me like an all mountain bike without a rear shock. I bet it goes just fine up and down the trail, but if the Canfield reputation is correct, it might actually be more comfortable than the Fuel when the trails get rowdy.

  8. #108
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    @Skeeter: One thing you can do is go borrow/demo a Kona Honzo (broad availability; very similar geo), and imagine it as much lighter and a bit more compliant on the trail, then make your decision. Only you will know if a FS is necessary/preferred for you, how you ride, where you ride most. I know plenty of folks that moved from a short-travel FS to a hardtail, and rarely ride their FS anymore -- or, rather, they got 140+ travel FS and ride those in burlier terrain.

  9. #109
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    A couple of quick EPO questions for the Canfield folks that might be of general interest:
    • Cable mounting looks similar to the Yelli -- basically one bundle of externally-routed cables. So presumably the provision for dropper post is external, run along the underside of the top tube?
    • For the seat tube angle listed on the geo chart, is that assuming a 140mm Pike? In other words it would be uber-steep with a 120mm fork?
    • Any ideas yet on max chainring size? 32t seemed to be the workable max for the Yelli: same for the EPO? (Assuming 1x chainline.)


    Thanks! Looks like a killer frame, a great update to my Yelli!
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    A couple of quick EPO questions for the Canfield folks that might be of general interest:
    • Cable mounting looks similar to the Yelli -- basically one bundle of externally-routed cables. So presumably the provision for dropper post is external, run along the underside of the top tube?
    • For the seat tube angle listed on the geo chart, is that assuming a 140mm Pike? In other words it would be uber-steep with a 120mm fork?
    • Any ideas yet on max chainring size? 32t seemed to be the workable max for the Yelli: same for the EPO? (Assuming 1x chainline.)


    Thanks! Looks like a killer frame, a great update to my Yelli!
    Budgie - Thanks for the props on the EPO! The frame features two routers under the TT and a single router on the DT for the rear brake. If you are running both derailleurs and a dropper, you will need to bundle the three cables under the TT.

    ST angle - The angles on this bike are all based off of the N9. The EPO is effective SA is actually .5 degree slacker than the N9, so I wouldn't call it steep as "steep" has never been used to describe the N9.

    The largest ring we have run is a 34t, but there should be clearance to go larger if desired.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    Budgie - Thanks for the props on the EPO! The frame features two routers under the TT and a single router on the DT for the rear brake. If you are running both derailleurs and a dropper, you will need to bundle the three cables under the TT.

    ST angle - The angles on this bike are all based off of the N9. The EPO is effective SA is actually .5 degree slacker than the N9, so I wouldn't call it steep as "steep" has never been used to describe the N9.

    The largest ring we have run is a 34t, but there should be clearance to go larger if desired.
    Kewl. So SA of 73.5 @120mm fork: just about perfect! Awesome news on all fronts...
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  12. #112
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    Thanks for the replies. The only "slack" HT I've ever ridden was a stache. Loved the way it rode and I'm guessing the EPO would be better. The EPO is only about a half pound more than the Chinese carbon frames I'm looking at, so there's that too. If you guys don't think the EPO will be a more efficient climber than my Fuel, maybe I'm better off just going with plan A and getting the Chiner as a second bike?? Or buy the EPO and make that my only bike . I can't imagine it wouldn't climb better than the fuel with the lightweight and responsiveness of a HT.. Heck maybe I'll just build the EPO with my higher end stuff on the fuel and then go X9 or something on the fuel.. I really suck at decision making skills


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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter97 View Post
    Thanks for the replies. The only "slack" HT I've ever ridden was a stache. Loved the way it rode and I'm guessing the EPO would be better. The EPO is only about a half pound more than the Chinese carbon frames I'm looking at, so there's that too. If you guys don't think the EPO will be a more efficient climber than my Fuel, maybe I'm better off just going with plan A and getting the Chiner as a second bike?? Or buy the EPO and make that my only bike . I can't imagine it wouldn't climb better than the fuel with the lightweight and responsiveness of a HT.. Heck maybe I'll just build the EPO with my higher end stuff on the fuel and then go X9 or something on the fuel.. I really suck at decision making skills


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    Skeeter97 - The EPO certainly makes a great XC/All-Mountain ride, this is the reason why we create our hardtails. Riders that LOVE to pedal, but also enjoy letting it loose from time to time. While the most of the marketing you will see on this bike will be showing it's aggressiveness, (we are Canfield Brothers after all), all of our all-mountain line of bikes are dialed to enjoy both the ups and downs. The EPO's posted geo is based off a 140mm fork, however, you can tame down the numbers by doing a build with a 120mm or even a 100mm fork.

    We went out over the weekend to grab a few shots of our new bikes and Lance and Sean were on fire! It was fun to watch them send it over some pretty sizable jumps!

    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-dsc_0256.jpg

    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-dsc_0313.jpg

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    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-dsc_0681.jpg

    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-dsc_0733.jpg

  14. #114
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    This frame keeps looking better each time I return to this thread... and to the Canfield site. Thanks for the responsiveness from the company -- Killington.

    So, I have to ask you directly: Is a single speed option in the cards?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collins View Post
    This frame keeps looking better each time I return to this thread... and to the Canfield site. Thanks for the responsiveness from the company -- Killington.

    So, I have to ask you directly: Is a single speed option in the cards?
    Collins- I have addressed this in a previous post, but a SS option would require a new mold as we would need to create a different dropout for the EPO to run SS. It really comes down to sales, if this would make sense on the LARGE investment that would be required to make this a viable option.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    Skeeter97 - The EPO certainly makes a great XC/All-Mountain ride, this is the reason why we create our hardtails. Riders that LOVE to pedal, but also enjoy letting it loose from time to time. While the most of the marketing you will see on this bike will be showing it's aggressiveness, (we are Canfield Brothers after all), all of our all-mountain line of bikes are dialed to enjoy both the ups and downs. The EPO's posted geo is based off a 140mm fork, however, you can tame down the numbers by doing a build with a 120mm or even a 100mm fork.

    We went out over the weekend to grab a few shots of our new bikes and Lance and Sean were on fire! It was fun to watch them send it over some pretty sizable jumps!

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    I just spent a good amount of time talking to Sean (good dude!!) and I've decided this is the direction I want to go. I'm ordering my frame next week and I'll be sure to post up some pics when she's all built and give a ride report after I've had some time to flog on it a bit


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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaumaturge View Post
    Full disclosure: I don't own one of these. I would be amazed, though, if the EPO with that geometry ended up being a better XC bike than a Trek Fuel of any variety. It really looks to me like an all mountain bike without a rear shock. I bet it goes just fine up and down the trail, but if the Canfield reputation is correct, it might actually be more comfortable than the Fuel when the trails get rowdy.
    I think you've described exactly why so many people are drawn to a bike like this - if it rides like 'an all mountain bike without a rear shock', but can be built up as a 23-26lb (depending on size, tires, parts selection) bike that rides how you're describing, it'll still climb like a rocket, and do stuff like the above photo session on the way down.

    I don't think the market is hurting for more cookie cutter lightweight carbon hardtails with 71į HTA 73į STA with 17.5" CS length and conservative TT length that can be built into very fast XC rigs...
    but I think Canfield is onto something where a slack, comfortable to ride both up and down bike is going to be superior for all but a pure racing oriented riding style, just need to give more riders who think they need a steep head tube racing rig to try something with some actual stability and capability to realize that there usually isn't much point in going fast if it's not fun.

    I'm currently trying to just make my current ride slack enough that I stop hating the nervous handling at 30+mph. I don't care that their static paper model says a steep seat tube means it turns in well and handles switchbacks, but any 29er with a 22" ST size frame, it's going to be a really long bike, so taking away trail and front center length from the worst spot is just... lame. I know I'm going to hit a wall really soon with regard to fixing that (35mm of A2C growth through a fork with 32mm stanchions is NOT the ideal way to slacken out a bike), and I know the long-term answer is going to be a frame that is built slacker from the start, designed to handle the rigors of why my fat and somewhat unskilled arse can do to a bike through even relatively tame rock gardens, and incorporates a lot of the geometry lessons that the PNW is renown for teaching riders and bike makers... the fact that the final product frame is still coming in at a lower cost than the big name options who should be operating deep into the positive economies of scale side of production really should embarrass the latter, but I guess those marketing campaigns don't pay for themselves.

  18. #118
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    I ride my N9 XC (and my Yelli previously). They go well. I don't think of them as 'extreme' (I'm not an extreme rider!), they're fun, versatile dependable, do it all bikes. In fact it's the pure XC geo I regard as extreme, at the other end of the scale. For the 1% going for podium maybe they may make sense, but for the rest of us, less so.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    Collins- I have addressed this in a previous post, but a SS option would require a new mold as we would need to create a different dropout for the EPO to run SS. It really comes down to sales, if this would make sense on the LARGE investment that would be required to make this a viable option.
    @Killington: Thanks for restating; didn't see your comprehensive response from 4/15. Certainly makes sense. Yet, too bad for us with an itch for such things.

    It's odd, though: While the market may be relatively small for a slack HT, longer TT, short CS hardtail, I see plenty of Honzo, Taro, N9, Stache, and TransAM bikes on trails and in forums; I hear nothing but praise from riders and observers; folks always want to take my Honzo for a spin. This EPO fills the perfect niche for those thinking, "If it were just a little lighter... I could race it, ride longer, farther, higher..." So, praises be. But I ride mostly ss, so I wish this frame had that option. So go wishes.

  20. #120
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    I agree with Collins.

  21. #121
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    Too bad no SS option other than EBB's and tensionors. As awesome as this looks...I'll have to look elsewhere for my next bike build.
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  22. #122
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    Just got back from riding with the Canfield boys.....rode the EPO on the long climbs of Mt Galbraith. ... this thing climbs super comfy but very responsive on the ups. Being 6ft 1in rode the large with 50mm stem, felt very comfortable in and out of the saddle... more impressive was the fact this is really a versitle bike. Watched the boys huck this thing like it was a long travel sled... then when the jump lines came in to play...... it just flowed so smooth thru everything. . Definitely a unique but perfect for XC down just getting rowdy....thanks guys for having me up here.

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    Anybody checked 27.5+ clearance? This would be perfect for me If I could use 2.8-3" tire in winter time. I have makwa fork with a-c 483mm, that with 4" tire. But I think this will only work if I can get 29" diameter 27.5+ tire, otherwise im affraid that bb height will be too low? I know trailblazer is short in diameter

    Summertime would be shredding with 35 nexties 29" And pike.

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    I would love to demo the EPO and Riot. You guys coming down to SoCal this summer for demos?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppet View Post
    Anybody checked 27.5+ clearance? This would be perfect for me If I could use 2.8-3" tire in winter time. I have makwa fork with a-c 483mm, that with 4" tire. But I think this will only work if I can get 29" diameter 27.5+ tire,...
    +1 on this. I can't justify buying a fat bike, but if I could ride my summer bike in the winter just by swapping my wheelset, that would be brilliant! Of course, right now I'm in the scheming and dreaming stage of a new bike purchase, so by the time I get to pull the trigger, who knows what it will actually be?

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    The EPO's posted geo is based off a 140mm fork, however, you can tame down the numbers by doing a build with a 120mm or even a 100mm fork.
    so am I right in thinking the EPO puts the saddle and bars further forward to give roughly same reach and SA as Yelli on 100mm forks but with 140mm on the EPO?
    - I ride a Yelli and found 140mm forks put me too high and back, so dropped the forks to 120mm which feels better to me. For a 140 fork the EPO looks like the way to go, and I'm happy with a large and a rear mech
    (Any thoughts on updating the yelli geo the same way?)

  27. #127
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    Epo 27.5+

    We just received our WTB Scraper Rims in and were able to do a proper 27.5+ build on the EPO. BB comes in right at 12.5".

    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-canfield-brothers-epo-27.5.jpg

    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-canfield-brothers-epo-27.5-clearance.jpg

    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-canfield-brothers-epo-27.5-clearance-2.jpg

    Most importantly, it still wheelies!!!
    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-canfield-brothers-epo-wheelie.jpg

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    We just received our WTB Scraper Rims in and were able to do a proper 27.5+ build on the EPO. BB comes in right at 12.5".
    What is the BB height normally on the EPO?

  29. #129
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    Looks good. Is it 130mm fork?
    I have allready bought my first 29er rims nextie 35s and I dont have a frame yet
    Also have Derbys 27.5" AND this looks tempting!

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppet View Post
    Looks good. Is it 130mm fork?
    I have allready bought my first 29er rims nextie 35s and I dont have a frame yet
    Also have Derbys 27.5" AND this looks tempting!
    Quote Originally Posted by Steele501 View Post
    What is the BB height normally on the EPO?
    It all depends on the specific build. Our demos have 140mm Pikes with Maxxis tires and have 12.75 BB's

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    I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the EPO...just a question about the fork...i am a pretty big guy and dont do anything crazy aggressive, but was wondering if I should go with the 120mm or 140mm Pike?

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcitron View Post
    I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the EPO...just a question about the fork...i am a pretty big guy and dont do anything crazy aggressive, but was wondering if I should go with the 120mm or 140mm Pike?
    What bike/fork are you coming off of, and how fast do you want to go through the chunk? Pike is a big fork so if you're a big guy, it's a safe bet - rides well slow or fast. I'm 180lbs geared up and do not ride crazy. I've ridden a Pike and noticed how stiff and controlled it is compared to my Float 32. I'd say Fox 34 or Pike is the way to go, assuming you can get the travel set to your taste with either. I don't own an EPO but do have a Yelli, and it's a lot of fun and very capable with 120mm of flimsier forkage. If you go with the larger fork, you could start at either 120 or 140, and work the other way if you find it less than ideal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcitron View Post
    I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the EPO...just a question about the fork...i am a pretty big guy and dont do anything crazy aggressive, but was wondering if I should go with the 120mm or 140mm Pike?
    I don't have an EPO, but do have a Yelli - and the geo on the EPO looks to me like it's made for 140, with lower BB and steeper seat angle at same fork length. You can always change the air spring if you want to drop the Pike to 120 (I didn't know you could actually buy off the shelf at 120).

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcitron View Post
    I am getting ready to pull the trigger on the EPO...just a question about the fork...i am a pretty big guy and dont do anything crazy aggressive, but was wondering if I should go with the 120mm or 140mm Pike?
    There's probably a reason their demo fleet rolls out in 140mm Pikes - that's probably the most capable and impressive setup... it's always possible to drop in a shorter air spring setup if you want to get the stack lower and more weight out front. At present all the 140mm Pikes are cheaper than the 120mm ones, so that alone would justify that direction; I will say that you DO want to run a beefy fork, and the Pike suits that fine.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    We just received our WTB Scraper Rims in and were able to do a proper 27.5+ build on the EPO.
    Did you put them under the Riot too?

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    I tried my N9 at 120mm and 140mm, I much prefer 140mm.

    You don't need to be a big hitter to run 140mm, it's about geometry and handling too.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaumaturge View Post
    Full disclosure: I don't own one of these. I would be amazed, though, if the EPO with that geometry ended up being a better XC bike than a Trek Fuel of any variety. It really looks to me like an all mountain bike without a rear shock. I bet it goes just fine up and down the trail, but if the Canfield reputation is correct, it might actually be more comfortable than the Fuel when the trails get rowdy.
    What about it's geometry would prevent it from going fast? It can be built up reasonably light, I'm sure it puts the power down, and it will kill it on the decents.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    What about it's geometry would prevent it from going fast? It can be built up reasonably light, I'm sure it puts the power down, and it will kill it on the decents.
    The poster I was replying to was looking for a BETTER XC bike than his current Trek Fuel EX9. History may prove current thinking wrong, but the Fuel is over an inch longer in the chainstays and a couple degrees steeper in HTA - classic XC geometry. The EPO should be a ripping fast bike, but with a 140mm fork, it sure doesn't have cross country numbers.

    As Vin pointed out, though, you can steepen it up with a shorter fork - it just didn't even occur to me that someone might actually do that.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaumaturge View Post
    The poster I was replying to was looking for a BETTER XC bike than his current Trek Fuel EX9. History may prove current thinking wrong, but the Fuel is over an inch longer in the chainstays and a couple degrees steeper in HTA - classic XC geometry. The EPO should be a ripping fast bike, but with a 140mm fork, it sure doesn't have cross country numbers.

    As Vin pointed out, though, you can steepen it up with a shorter fork - it just didn't even occur to me that someone might actually do that.
    I'm still lost - how does a steep head angle make you faster?

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by arclarke View Post
    I'm still lost - how does a steep head angle make you faster?
    Holy crap, people. I'm not a bike designer, and I'm not responsible for decades of bike design and industry thinking. Here are head tube angles for some popular CROSS COUNTRY bikes. Draw your own conclusions:
    - Specialized Epic 29: 70.5
    - Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper 29 (hardtail): 71
    - Scott Scale 910: 69.5
    - Trek Superfly 9.9 SL: 69.8
    - Giant XTC Advanced 29er: 71.5
    And on and on...

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by arclarke View Post
    I'm still lost - how does a steep head angle make you faster?
    Yes, I would love to know as well.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  42. #142
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    See post #5 here
    What's up with XC geometry?

  43. #143
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    Ugghh, those numbers look awful. Pure hell.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thaumaturge View Post
    Holy crap, people. I'm not a bike designer, and I'm not responsible for decades of bike design and industry thinking. Here are head tube angles for some popular CROSS COUNTRY bikes. Draw your own conclusions:
    - Specialized Epic 29: 70.5
    - Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper 29 (hardtail): 71
    - Scott Scale 910: 69.5
    - Trek Superfly 9.9 SL: 69.8
    - Giant XTC Advanced 29er: 71.5
    And on and on...
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
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    Wow, plenty of clearance
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  45. #145
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    not that I know what I am talking about with GEO, but I think the straighter the headtube angle the farther foward over the front wheel you are like on a road bike

  46. #146
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    I disagree with the premise that steep head angles and long stems are better for climbing. There is a local lad who rides a Yeti SB5 and he can climb a section of trail that is hard to walk up. My Warden with a 65.5 HTA climbs great. Keeping the front end down on a steep climb is a combination of steep seat angle and leaning over the stem. I think that there is a tendency to keep doing what we have always done, and not enough experimentation. A 120mm forked 29lb EPO would kill it up and down.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I disagree with the premise that steep head angles and long stems are better for climbing. ...
    The more I think about this, the more I'm inclined to agree. I have a feeling that most of us don't know yet that we're in the midst of a geometry revolution.

    That said, as much as my Chilcotin is great in most scenarios, I wouldn't say it climbs as well on any given day as my cheapa$$ Felt Nine60, but there are so many differences between the two that it can't easily be attributed to just geometry.

    Still, for the moment, if I were betting my hard earned dollars on a new XC weapon, I would probably be inclined to go with what is so far proven to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike View Post
    Ugghh, those numbers look awful. Pure hell.
    None of them look overly fun, for sure.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaumaturge View Post
    Holy crap, people. I'm not a bike designer, and I'm not responsible for decades of bike design and industry thinking. Here are head tube angles for some popular CROSS COUNTRY bikes. Draw your own conclusions:
    The only thing that tells me is that buyers in the market for high end bikes that climb well probably don't mind the tradeoffs of being directly over the front wheel, especially in tight switchbacks or up somewhat technical climbs... and that pro racers just want whatever is light, puts them aggressively low out front, and most importantly is free. If a half dozen seconds can be gained on the steepest climb of a course and only bleeds a few seconds everywhere else, it's hailed as a design success... hence the direction now for a lot of those bikes. For the non-Elite racers, the side benefit is a bike that still tackles steeper climbs with aplomb (and less rider skill/weight distribution input), and recent suspension technology coupled with wagon wheels and wider tires all mean that the tradeoff in stability being offset by those other areas doesn't bite as hard.

    I think the first solid XC race bike that makes use of a long top tube + short stem with low stack and slacker head tube will be hailed as an industry leading success - it'll still climb great, but be a lot more stable at speed - the tradeoff will be a bit of wheelbase, and it may not climb as well exclusively on the steeper climbs, but the first setup that climbs acceptably in those areas and is better everywhere else will cause others to follow suit.

    Unless the exclusive purpose of a bike is trimming seconds on a race course, I see no reason to give up trail (specifically the trail measurement) on a setup where speed is the ultimate goal. To slow riders the steeper head tube bikes will seem to handle really well, especially with a long-ish offset fork, and that's usually how bike journos will describe these bikes-- 'steer great, but can be skittish at speed' or 'have to respect it, or it'll send you OTB'. For my part, I'd much rather be on a bike I'm comfortable going fast on, especially if able to use that bike for so much more (and thus can put nicer parts onto ONE bike instead of creating a race-day-only rig).

    I don't need to be a bike designer to realize that most so-called designers behave more like CAD enhanced sheep with calculators - just figuring out how to hit some key spec sheet numbers while applying the best existing material science to hit weight targets doesn't really accomplish fast progress (material science gains are inexorable, but this mostly seems to proliferate new standards more than real innovation), but apparently it's plenty adequate to keep well heeled spandex clad legions into buying new hardware. I didn't really share this view until letting some of Chris Porter's (Mojo Suspension, UK) thoughts, published on MBR really sink in, and actually test ride some of the standout XC-Race bikes that appeal to roadies gone wild. They feel exactly like how a road biker would envision an off-road fat tired bike should be, and handle like them too. Being on the saddle, especially pedaling, everything feels just fine, but anytime I've pedaled to the top of somewhere awesome, it's a bit disappointing realizing that I'll spend the gnarliest part of the descent basically sitting on the rear tire with my chest against the seat, because the first g-out would otherwise mean the fork is just going to flex backwards instead of use its travel, sending the rest of the vehicle mass (me) off the front. Same goes for being able to negotiate chundery sections at speed.

    Comparing on equal price terms, the EPO frame can nearly be built up with an RS-1 for the price of others on SID-WC or Fit4 Terralogic Fox32's, and with a 120mm RS-1 I suspect that the EPO would essentially humiliate some of those bikes listed and go partying with their lunch money. On more equal terms (Sid-XX WC) on a really racy build (drop stem, flat carbon bar, lightweight seatpost/saddle without setback, XX1/X01 drivetrain, stout brakes on small ice-tech rotors, and some <1600g TublessRdy wheels), it's actually pretty close on geometry, but still a longer top tube slightly slacker setup that's more conducive to stability at speed... but even that capability to me would sell this bike short on what it could really do.

    Luckily I'll be able to save up for this unicorn, but I'm more than willing to take a risk and step outside the box geometry wise - because I'm a lot more willing to throw money at a build I can do a lot more things with.

  49. #149
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    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-18349321438_1f65c49a91_k.jpg
    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-17914536674_6a0599f928_k.jpg

    Built up as a XC party sled

    120mm fork
    740mm flat bars
    1x10
    dropper post
    DT EX 471 rims w/ 2.35 tires
    23lbs

    a total rocket ship

  50. #150
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    Very nice
    Four wheels move my body Two wheels move my soul

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Built up as a XC party sled

    120mm fork
    740mm flat bars
    1x10
    dropper post
    DT EX 471 rims w/ 2.35 tires
    23lbs

    a total rocket ship
    How do you like the bike? Ordering my frame next week and planning on going 120mm fork and 1x as well. What else have you ridden to compare it to? Nice job on the weight by the way, I added my build up and with a dropper it "should" come in at 24 pounds


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  52. #152
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    What else in in this category? Decent reach, low stack, steep STA, and slack HTA make other hardtails look old fashioned.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
    Built up as a XC party sled

    120mm fork
    740mm flat bars
    1x10
    dropper post
    DT EX 471 rims w/ 2.35 tires
    23lbs

    a total rocket ship
    Nice and light! What's the fork? And what offset? On my Yelli I found 51mm suited 140mm and 46mm suited 120mm best - at least to me anyway.

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by arclarke View Post
    Nice and light! What's the fork? And what offset? On my Yelli I found 51mm suited 140mm and 46mm suited 120mm best - at least to me anyway.
    SID RCT3 w/ a 15mm TA (51mm offset I believe). She's replacing a Yelli, and seems much the same though perhaps a little more nimble at lower speeds w/ the shortened stays and that quiet damped feeling from the carbon. Still very stiff vertically and stiffer laterally than the Yelli however not as much as I would have thought. Makes for a great complement to my trail bike (SB-66C) that is just too much bike for a lot of local stuff here.

  55. #155
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    just ordered my new EPO....have all the components coming except brakes...will figure that out soon!

  56. #156
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    Built up as a XC party sled
    I like the way you think.

  57. #157
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    i went a little overboard, but should be really fun when I am done

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
    SID RCT3 w/ a 15mm TA (51mm offset I believe). She's replacing a Yelli, and seems much the same though perhaps a little more nimble at lower speeds w/ the shortened stays and that quiet damped feeling from the carbon. Still very stiff vertically and stiffer laterally than the Yelli however not as much as I would have thought. Makes for a great complement to my trail bike (SB-66C) that is just too much bike for a lot of local stuff here.
    Interested to hear how the EPO compares with the Yelli - is the build the same?
    I'm very tempted, but it's an expensive way to lose a bit of weight - is the EPO faster, more comfortable, more fun?

  59. #159
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    In terms of direct comparison, the benefits arenít limited to the weight. a few things I noted:

    1) yes the weight is definitely noticeable, both pedaling and in terms of maneuverability on the ground and the air
    2) the steeper seat tube angle means I donít feel like Iím riding so far behind the cranks that Iím riding a pseudo recumbent. Much more over the top and feels easier to put down power in the saddle
    3) the shorter chainstays made it much easier to shove the bike into corners and steep off camber switchbacks. Downside here is that at higher speeds (trails that arenít going to lend themselves to any hardtail to begin with) it feels a little twitchier
    4) the thru axle makes the rear end feel much more precise and predictable

    Bottom line, not vastly different than the Yelli, just several minor improvements that sum to make the bike feel much more confident and lively

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
    In terms of direct comparison, the benefits aren’t limited to the weight. a few things I noted:

    1) yes the weight is definitely noticeable, both pedaling and in terms of maneuverability on the ground and the air
    2) the steeper seat tube angle means I don’t feel like I’m riding so far behind the cranks that I’m riding a pseudo recumbent. Much more over the top and feels easier to put down power in the saddle
    3) the shorter chainstays made it much easier to shove the bike into corners and steep off camber switchbacks. Downside here is that at higher speeds (trails that aren’t going to lend themselves to any hardtail to begin with) it feels a little twitchier
    4) the thru axle makes the rear end feel much more precise and predictable

    Bottom line, not vastly different than the Yelli, just several minor improvements that sum to make the bike feel much more confident and lively
    So, overall, would you say it's worth the price premium over a Yeli? I could build one up pretty light with higher end components for much less than an EPO. Plus if I went Yeli over EPO I could probably afford to keep my Fuel as well instead of vulturing it for parts


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  61. #161
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    The new YS is being introduced this week and it may be EPOd except in aluminum. Let's see what transpires.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  62. #162
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    Went ahead and pulled the trigger on the EPO frame. Hopefully have it built up by next week


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  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
    In terms of direct comparison, the benefits arenít limited to the weight. a few things I noted:

    1) yes the weight is definitely noticeable, both pedaling and in terms of maneuverability on the ground and the air
    2) the steeper seat tube angle means I donít feel like Iím riding so far behind the cranks that Iím riding a pseudo recumbent. Much more over the top and feels easier to put down power in the saddle
    3) the shorter chainstays made it much easier to shove the bike into corners and steep off camber switchbacks. Downside here is that at higher speeds (trails that arenít going to lend themselves to any hardtail to begin with) it feels a little twitchier
    4) the thru axle makes the rear end feel much more precise and predictable

    Bottom line, not vastly different than the Yelli, just several minor improvements that sum to make the bike feel much more confident and lively
    Offset can contribute to or minimize twitchiness especially with uber short stays. I know this through experience and experimentation on my Honzo with adjustable dropouts. I went with a 46mm pike on my EPO and think it's perfect! Interestingly, Specialized specced a 46mm pike on the 2016 140mm stump jumper.
    Last edited by carabao; 06-09-2015 at 09:42 PM.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabao View Post
    Offset can contribute to or minimize twitchiness especially with uber short stays. I know this through experience and experimentation on my Honzo with adjustable dropouts. I went with a 46mm pike on my EPO and think it's perfect! Interestingly, Specialized specced a 46mm pike on the 2016 140mm stump jumper.
    I agree about offset being important. On my Yelli I had to replace the Revelation crown/steerer/stanchions and could only get 51mm offset when original was 46mm. My conclusion was that 120 travel with 46 offset was the right amount of nimbleness (for me) and 140 travel too sluggish, but with 51mm offset the 140 travel was just right and 120 a bit twitchy.

    A line drawing showed that the trail was the same with 120/46 and 140/51 - normally a longer fork increases trail but more offset reduces it.

    So is your 46mm offset Pike on 140mm travel?

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by arclarke View Post
    I agree about offset being important. On my Yelli I had to replace the Revelation crown/steerer/stanchions and could only get 51mm offset when original was 46mm. My conclusion was that 120 travel with 46 offset was the right amount of nimbleness (for me) and 140 travel too sluggish, but with 51mm offset the 140 travel was just right and 120 a bit twitchy.

    A line drawing showed that the trail was the same with 120/46 and 140/51 - normally a longer fork increases trail but more offset reduces it.

    So is your 46mm offset Pike on 140mm travel?
    140 46mm Pike

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabao View Post
    140 46mm Pike
    just waiting for everything to come in

    build out is full XX1, Pike RCT 140mm 46 offset, SRAM guide RSC brakes with 200 and 180 rotors, 50mm stem

    can't wait

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    The new YS is being introduced this week and it may be EPOd except in aluminum. Let's see what transpires.
    I believe the Yelli geo is unchanged.

  68. #168
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    Freehub Review

    Freehub just launched their EPO review
    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-canfieldepo-1.jpg

    "If you have thrown a leg over the Canfield Brothers' EPO, then "all mountain bad ass bike" should be the response. This is not a roadie's dirt trainer or an XC racer. This is a mean and lean dirt-eating, fun machine. Super lightweight designs are possible with carbon construction, but burlier intentions can also be realized using composites, while still reducing overall weight. The Canfield Brothers have taken the latter approach by focusing on bringing their acclaimed 29er geometry to a lighter weight chassis using carbon construction."

    See the full review here.

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vertr View Post
    I believe the Yelli geo is unchanged.
    Alas, yes😢
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  70. #170
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    Today twas a good day. Came home from work to find not only my EPO frame waiting for me, but all my build parts as well.
    This is my first attempt at building up a frame and overall it went pretty smooth (I hope). Tomorrow I just need to cut the steerer tube, run my cables and make some final adjustments and she should be ready to roll! Sorry for the crappy pic but I was tired. I'll take some better pics when finished along with my build details and a ride report (even though it's supposed to be 111+ degrees here all week)


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  71. #171
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    And no I don't plan on running my saddle like that


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    very cool...I got mine yesterday as well but will take a while before it is together....i am still waiting for my drive train and fork

    are you running 1x or 2x?

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcitron View Post
    very cool...I got mine yesterday as well but will take a while before it is together....i am still waiting for my drive train and fork

    are you running 1x or 2x?
    Will be setup 1x11.. Plus I'm debating throwing a dropper post on there


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  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter97 View Post
    Will be setup 1x11.. Plus I'm debating throwing a dropper post on there


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    The EPO begs for a dropper!
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  75. #175
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    I am not putting a dropper on only because I have one one my other bike and never use it

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    I'm sure I'll end up getting one eventually. I was shooting for a "light" ish build but a dropper is probably worth it. Loved the reverb stealth on my fuel


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  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter97 View Post
    Loved the reverb stealth on my fuel
    Fuel is an XC bike, no? If you loved it on the Fuel, you'll shite in your bib when you put a dropper on the Epo. The dropper is one of the keys that make this particular type of bike so fun and capable.
    Every rose has it's thorn.

    enjoy the ear worm

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entrenador View Post
    Fuel is an XC bike, no? If you loved it on the Fuel, you'll shite in your bib when you put a dropper on the Epo. The dropper is one of the keys that make this particular type of bike so fun and capable.
    Yeah XC/light trail. And I agree on the dropper I took my EPO out for her maiden voyage today and definitely plan on getting a dropper. I planned on posting my build and first impressions of the bike tonight but I'm exhausted! I'll right up a full report tomorrow. In the meantime here she is heading out for our first ride


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  79. #179
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    Alright here's my build info
    Frame: EPO large black/red
    Fork: Rockshox Pike 130mm
    Wheelset: Bontrager Rhythm Elite tubless
    Drivetrain: X1 1x11 w/XO carbon cranks
    Seatpost: Thompson elite (soon to be replaced with a KS LEV)
    Bars: 780mm Raceface Atlas
    Stem: 50mm Spank
    Tires: Panaracer Rampage 2.3
    Brakes: Shimano XT
    Came in at 25.04lbs. Heavier than I thought it would be but I suppose that's not the purpose of a bike like this. This was my first build and it all went smooth. HUGE thanks to the guys over at Canfield for answering my dumb questions.

    Now for the fun part, ride report. Went out yesterday evening despite 110 degree temp when I started. The trail I rode starts off with a rocky and occasionally steep climb. The EPO is definitely a good climber. Started off a little bumpy but once I remembered I wasn't on a squishy bike anymore and to get my butt off the saddle over rough bits, it smoothed out. A benefit of this is this bike really accelerates quickly when mashing. Didn't notice the front end lifting much and it basically went where I pointed it. Pleasantly surprised so far.

    Now for the descent. I've always heard how well Canfield bikes behave well going downhill and to be honest my expectations were pretty high. The EPO EXCEEDED those expectations!! As soon as I pointed the bike downhill I had an immediate huge grin on my face. This bike is just flat out FUN!! I was amazed at how smooth the ride was for a hardtail, cornering was great and I was jumping off things I'd usually leave alone. For some reason riding this bike just made me want to play more. The speed I was able to maintain was a blast and I surprisingly blew away my previous PR on this particular downhill section. I'm not a geo expert but whatever those guys did just made this frame an absolute blast to ride. So overall I'm extremely pleased with the EPO and look forward to getting even more comfy on it. Without a doubt the most fun bike I've ever ridden (and I've had a lot) I'm also very impressed with the Pike and should be even more once I figure out how to dial in rebound and slow speed compression

    Sorry for the long post just wanted to give a good review of my build. If you're on the fence about this bike JUST DO IT! Absolute blast to ride and made me feel like a kid again. Not too mention it isn't too rough on the eyes either






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  80. #180
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    I couldn't resist... order placed! Sean at CB had me at its a "self-shuttling DH bike"

    Time to sell off some bikes and make room on my quiver.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by mergs View Post
    I couldn't resist... order placed! Sean at CB had me at its a "self-shuttling DH bike"

    Time to sell off some bikes and make room on my quiver.
    Right on!! You're gonna love it. Self shuttling DH bike, haha I like that!!


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  82. #182
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    EPO Review

    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-image.jpgCanfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-image.jpgCanfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-image.jpgCanfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-image.jpg

    Large frame
    Pike rct3 140mm 46mm offset
    Nextie carbon rims 30mm
    Hadley Hubs (dh front)
    XT brakes 180/203 ice-tech rotors
    Saint shifter and derailleur
    SLX cranks
    11-36 XT cassette
    36t Wolftooth chainring
    Sram 10sp hollow pin chain
    Onza Ibex 2.4 tires front and rear tubeless
    Thomson seat post currently (also have a 125mm KS Lev Ti with soutpaw remote)
    WTB Volt chromoly rail saddle
    Raceface Atlas 35mm stem
    Raceface SIXC Carbon bar cut to 775mm
    XT Trail Pedals
    Santa Cruz Palmdale grips
    MRP FD mount cover

    25lbs 8 ounces with pedals, bottle cage and Tom Tom GPS.

    I have over 540 miles on this bike and can honestly say it is the ultimate all mountain hardtail. Canfield did it first but they will be copied. The geometry is so ahead of its time. I'm faster and having more fun on the EPO than every one of my recent bikes. Here's the list: Niner MCR, Niner Air9, Kona Honzo, Kona Process 153, Kona Process 134, and Surly Instigator 2.0 27.5.

    That list dates back to 2010. As you can tell I've been searching for the perfect all mountain, occassional enduro race, everyday anytrail, one bike rig and the Canfield Brothers EPO is it. Period.

    I could go on and on but I'd rather ride. If you have any questions, shoot. Otherwise, if you have the means, get this bike!
    Last edited by carabao; 06-22-2015 at 01:20 PM.

  83. #183
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    thats a low seat position......

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcitron View Post
    thats a low seat position......
    I stand most of the time sitting on flats and mild DHs. I have a dropper for when I feel like sitting, but I always end up taking it off

  85. #185
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    What tape did you use on the shifter/brake housing? I like it.
    konahonzo

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
    What tape did you use on the shifter/brake housing? I like it.
    3m Friction tape.

  87. #187
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    Caraboo and Skeeter97 - Thank you guys for the kind words and taking the time to write up the reviews! It's super rewarding for us to have riders as passionate about our bikes as we are!

    For those that haven't seen the recent Freehub EPO review, be sure to check it out.

    "If you have thrown a leg over the Canfield Brothers' EPO, then "all mountain bad ass bike" should be the response. This is not a roadie's dirt trainer or an XC racer. This is a mean and lean dirt-eating, fun machine. Super lightweight designs are possible with carbon construction, but burlier intentions can also be realized using composites, while still reducing overall weight. The Canfield Brothers have taken the latter approach by focusing on bringing their acclaimed 29er geometry to a lighter weight chassis using carbon construction." - The review in it's entirety can be found here.
    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-canfieldepo-1.jpg

    Canfield Brothers EPO Carbon 29er-canfieldepo-2.jpg

  88. #188
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    I just spent the day riding downhill stuff at Snow Summit in Big Bear and this bike continues to absolutely blow me away. I had the only hardtail on the mountain today and got a lot of "how do you ride that back here?" The look on their faces when the hardtail guy kept up and sometimes passed them was priceless. I'd like to think I sold a few EPO frames answering questions at the bottom of the lifts.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, thank you Canfield Brothers for building my dream frame! Ok I'll stop now


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  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter97 View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again, thank you Canfield Brothers for building my dream frame! Ok I'll stop now
    Don't feel like you need to stop... HAHA! Seriously though, we love hearing that our riders are stoked!
    Last edited by KillingtonVT; 06-23-2015 at 07:50 PM.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    Don't feel like you to stop... HAHA! Seriously though, we love hearing that our riders are stoked!
    Already talked a buddy into buying a Yelli frame that I'll build up for him and my bro in law is seriously considering the EPO.


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  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter97 View Post
    Alright here's my build info




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Next time you head to FINs can you send me a PM, We normally ride there every Sunday morning. I have been thinking of building one of these EPO's for another 29er and would love to check yours out of possible while I wait for the Balance's to get made
    Too Many .

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent701 View Post
    Next time you head to FINs can you send me a PM, We normally ride there every Sunday morning. I have been thinking of building one of these EPO's for another 29er and would love to check yours out of possible while I wait for the Balance's to get made
    Will do. I typically ride during the week, usually Wednesday or Thursday evening/night. I'll give you a heads up. Still up in Big Bear riding for the next couple days


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  93. #193
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    Will do. I typicallyduring the week, usually Wednesday or Thursday evening/night. I'll give you a heads up. Still up in Big Bear riding for the next couple days

    Just picked up the bike today


    Think I might get riser bars instead of the straight I had from an old bike. Also offset seat post....cockpit is a little small


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

  94. #194
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    One final update. After a few days of lift assisted downhill riding in Big Bear, I decided to change gears a bit and hit a nearby trail with some pretty hefty climbing. To my surprise the EPO climbed very very well. This past week I've gone from one extreme to the other and am now 100% convinced this is the "do it all" bike I've been looking for. Still debating the dropper post, but honestly with the relaxed geometry of this bike I'm starting to think it may not be worth the money.


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  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeeter97 View Post
    one final update. After a few days of lift assisted downhill riding in big bear, i decided to change gears a bit and hit a nearby trail with some pretty hefty climbing. To my surprise the epo climbed very very well. This past week i've gone from one extreme to the other and am now 100% convinced this is the "do it all" bike i've been looking for. Still debating the dropper post, but honestly with the relaxed geometry of this bike i'm starting to think it may not be worth the money.


    sent from my iphone using tapatalk
    ks lev

  96. #196
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    i agree. took the inaugural ride last night on a wet slippery night on my home trail. it performed flawlessly. rocky streams that i normally think thru were so comfortable on this bike. First hardtail I have ever ridden that feels as comfortable as my full suspension. I really love it!

    and no need for a dropper for me...........

  97. #197
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    Can this bike accept 2x up front?

  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    Can this bike accept 2x up front?

    I believe so

    Call Sean at Canfield

    He will be happy to answer any questions

  99. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek200 View Post
    Can this bike accept 2x up front?
    It sure can... We built up the media bike with an XO 2x to show that it compatible with 2x drive trains. Check out the images in post #18.

  100. #200
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    Cool. Looking to either set it up XT 2x11 or possibly di2

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