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  1. #301
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    Yeah the problem is that it's a CC. Rebuild, sell, move on. Life's too short to have bad suspension.

  2. #302
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    Ya mine is a a DB as well. Colin just had it rebuilt as well. Like the 5th ride. Been riding a inline for the winter/spring.

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  3. #303
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    Well that sucks!

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  4. #304
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    2nd Ride Report

    Ride number two accomplished this morning. Thought I would check back in with some updates.

    This was the ride where I had a **** eating grin on my face the whole way down. I spent some time last night making adjustments. Tire pressures down a few psi, dropped the handlebars 5mm, and set the fork and shock to the correct sag and base tunes for my fully geared up weight.

    I found all that sweet, sweet traction. My confidence was through the roof and I was pushing hard into all the turns. I'm pretty sure I would have strava PR'd everything, but strava took a GPS dump and didn't record half the ride.

    I've still got more tuning to do. The Stage didn't even get close to full travel, even off a 6 foot drop and I was getting some wallowing and more pedal strikes on the climbs from the CCDBCS. I also was losing some momentum in hard berms and g-outs.

    I cleaned my "nemesis" jump the first time I tried it on this bike. Been working on it (aka casing the hell out of it) all spring.

    Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_0849-1-.jpg

    This bike rips. I just want to ride it or stare at it when I'm not riding it.

  5. #305
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    Anyone have much experience running a coil shock on these bad boys? Do you experience bottom out issues not having the same amount of ramp up??

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrennan View Post
    Anyone have much experience running a coil shock on these bad boys? Do you experience bottom out issues not having the same amount of ramp up??
    I'm curious about this as well. And if bottom out is controlled with elevated HSC damping, does the ride become harsh or undesirably less plush?

    C.O.

  7. #307
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    I am still getting my shock settings dialed in, but I am blown away by the climbing efficiency.....especially with the head angle and fork at 170mm. the geometry doesn't make the front end feel sluggish or wandering turning at all.

    it climbs much better than my SB-66, which I thought was going to be hard to beat. I won't lie, there my have been moments when I noticed the slight extra weight from my Yeti, but it was just in getting moving but climbing ability has blown me away.

    It does descent great, but I think i have been more impressed by the going up. the descending will only get better as I dial in the CCDB.

  8. #308
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    Re: coil shocks, there's a lot you can do to control bottom out other than HSC. The rubber bottom-out bumper acts as a second spring, and IFP pressure in the piggyback adds position-sensitive end stroke damping. Shocks that let you control the piggyback air chamber volume let you control how fast it ramps up - DHX RC4 and Vector HLR come to mind. If you're getting something from PUSH or Avalanche, they'd have that dialed for your frame, though it wouldn't be externally adjustable.

  9. #309
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    So, I got my Balance built up and got a good 14 miles on it yesterday. I spent a fair bit of that getting the fit and cockpit right, so I feel like I'm just starting to get to know the bike. I think I'm going to be really happy with it, though.

    Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_20160630_135130.jpg

    My large raw frame came in at 8.0lbs without shock. I swapped over most of my parts from my 650b Mojo HD franken-build, which was somewhere in the middle of the lightweight vs performance spectrum. The full build came out to 31.6 lbs (14.3 kg), a bit under the 32.0 lbs my spreadsheet had predicted, so I'm pleased on that front.

    The broad outline of the build was as follows:
    Large 2016 Balance with DBAir CS
    X-Fusion Sweep 160mm with Roughcut HLR damper
    LB carbon rims laced to Hadleys
    XT drivetrain with 32T AB oval ring and 45T OneUp cog
    XTR brakes with 203F/180R rotors
    Fox Transfer seatpost
    750mm bars with 60mm stem
    Bontrager SE5 front tire
    Slaughter Control rear tire (would go GRID casing or Minion SS EXO next time)

    I just got a 40mm stem, so I suspect I'll be happier with that once I swap it on. I ran the shock at 33% sag and the rebound (both LSR and HSR) a touch slower than baseline, and I was reasonably pleased with that for a first ride. Overall, the bike felt really fast. I'll probably echo a few things other folks have said.

    Pointed uphill, I really liked the climbing position. On bikes with more traditional geometry (shorter reach, slacker STA), I felt like I was hanging off the rear when seated up steep stuff. The Balance definitely felt more centered, and it was easier to keep the front wheel down. Pedaling efficiency was certainly "good enough", but I'm out of shape enough right now that I couldn't make any sort of judgment other than not meaningfully worse than what I'm used to.

    It picks up speed really easily when the trail points downhill, which I really don't understand. I mean, the bike+rider weighs practically the same, running the same wheel/tires, on the same trails. Maybe it's that the CBF system looses less momentum going over trail chatter? Regardless, it's something I'd read here before, but I'm really surprised how noticeable it is.

    The bike was nice and maneuverable, which was one of my concerns prior to ordering. It can just plow if you want, but it changes lines super easily, and it carves a mean corner. I have to work to readjust my braking habits to carry more speed into corners, knowing how easy it is to throw the rear end around.

    Off drops and jumps, the Balance was nice and poppy. Landings surprised me the most, though. Ramp-up near the end of stroke was more supportive and cushy than I'm used to on a dw-link bike. It felt like the bike turned crappy transitions into sweet smooth landings.

    I didn't PR everything everywhere, since I've only been able to get on a bike a handful of times in the past few months. But, when my gas tank was full, I dropped a full 25sec off a favorite 3min descent, and a couple other similar results. That's pretty dramatic.

    I've already ordered a PUSH ELEVENSIX (which is now available for the '16 Balance, btw). If you can tolerate a few additional pounds, the money you save getting the Balance instead of a carbon frame pretty much pays for the ELEVENSIX, and I'd take the performance over the frame/shock weight any day. I'm also getting the OneUp guide/bash to fit with my oval, and I need the oval to wear out so I can replace it with a red one!

  10. #310
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    Nice build! How do you like the LB rims? With how stiff the bike feels with Canfield wheels, I can only imagine how stiff the rear would feel with wide carbon rims. Thats definitely in my future.

    I'm very interested to hear how the elevensix feels on the bike. Is it really that much heavier though?

    +1 on the landings. There are a few jump that I stay away from because the transition is flat or I habitually case them on my old bike. Doesn't even phase the Balance, it just absorbs the hit, sticks to the ground and keeps moving. Which is helpful because that gives me a way to progress to actually clearing the transition and staying on line for the next jump.

  11. #311
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    My LB rims are the first 650b model they offered years ago (25mm internal, hooked bead, about 400g), which I built in the fall of 2012. I figured I'd be satisfied if they survived a full year, but they're well into their 4th year. They've been really bombproof. They're all scraped and scratched up, but they've survived some really nasty stuff, including rock strikes with pinch-flatted tires.

    I don't think you notice the stiffness until you swap back to normal aluminum wheels, and then you can't help but feel the wheels. If I was going to do it again today, I'd still probably do LB, 30mm-35mm internal, though the Derby and Ibis options look good too.

    The ELEVENSIX should be only 300-350g heavier than the DBAir (claimed 850g vs 500g-550g). I probably worded things poorly - I meant I'd rather have the extra few lbs of a Balance+ELEVENSIX vs lighter carbon frame with stock air shock.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    I don't think you notice the stiffness until you swap back to normal aluminum wheels, and then you can't help but feel the wheels. If I was going to do it again today, I'd still probably do LB, 30mm-35mm internal, though the Derby and Ibis options look good too.
    Do you build your own wheels? I would be less scared of going with LB vs something else if I could build/rebuild the wheels myself. Just from a cost perspective (especially when utilizing the warranty or crash replacement program).

    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    The ELEVENSIX should be only 300-350g heavier than the DBAir (claimed 850g vs 500g-550g). I probably worded things poorly - I meant I'd rather have the extra few lbs of a Balance+ELEVENSIX vs lighter carbon frame with stock air shock.
    I shouldn't have been so lazy and just looked it up myself. 350g I can do.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    Do you build your own wheels?
    Yep, sure do. The carbon rims are especially easy since they are so stiff and straight out of the box. If you haven't done it before, it isn't too difficult if you have access to a truing stand, read up before you start, and take it slow. There are lots of good wheelbuilding resources out there if you're interested.

    I also really wanted to use standard J-bend spokes and traditional nipples, instead of buying a high-end wheelset that used a proprietary system (I9, CB, Easton, Mavic, etc). That way, I could walk into any LBS wherever I'm traveling to get replacement spokes/nipples. Not that the need's ever arisen, but I have the option.

  14. #314
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    The DVO edition I built for my girlfriend was making mine look a little plain. So I had some new Spank Oozy 345 hoops laced up to replace my dented up WTB's. His and hers Balances




  15. #315
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    How's the Topaz compare to the Woodie?

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  16. #316
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    For her the Topaz is great. She's only 110lbs geared up and it was really easy for me to dial in for her. I always prefer coil shocks, but she's too light for them. The Topaz is noticeably lighter than the CCDB Air CS.

  17. #317
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    Those are sweet looking rides, nice work man!

    im also on a set of 29" assym 28/34 LB rims laced to i9 hubs I built last season. They seem bombproof so far, and haven't had to true them once. Wouldn't hesitate to recommend them, although I might build up a wider set this winter.

  18. #318
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    here's mine. Just finished putting her together. Hopefully I can get a ride in tomorrow. I'm going to have a small balance frame with extras for sale soon. PM if interested
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_2037-2-.jpg  


  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by weird terry View Post
    here's mine. Just finished putting her together. Hopefully I can get a ride in tomorrow. I'm going to have a small balance frame with extras for sale soon. PM if interested
    Nice looking ride! I love the dvo green.

    Why are you selling a small? Did you switch sizes?

  20. #320
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    yes. moved up to a medium. the small is a 2015 with the 2016 link upgrade. got a bonus from work i wasnt suspecting and pulled the trigger on a 2016.

  21. #321
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    What are you other balance owners running for CCDBCS tunes? I've got four rides now on the bike and I'm still playing around with the suspension. I'm liking the way it rides right now, pretty much at the exact base tune on the website. The only issue is I'm finding the bottom pretty frequently. Most of the time the bottom out is so soft I can't feel it (which is totally fine with me) but I have had one pretty brutal bottom out over a high speed g-out.

    I've been dialing up the HSC, but it doesn't seem to be making a big difference (only have gone up 1 full rotation so far, so 1.5). Should I keep cranking it up or start looking at a different setting?

    Also, just to verify, full travel on the shock (on the balance) is not all the way to the end of the shock body right? I'm still seeing about .75cm of exposed body after I find the bottom (or at least what feels like the bottom) of the stroke.

    Strangely enough, I'm having the opposite issue with the MRP. I can't get down to full travel. It rides great as well, but I would like to be getting into the last 20mm of suspension on the big hits. Maybe the fork making the shock work harder?

    Any tips would be appreciated.

    In other news, this bike is magic. It propelled me across a very tough and very narrow skinny this last weekend. No idea how I made it across. Never been able to do it before.

  22. #322
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    Man this thread just keeps drawing me in. I have no business wanting another bike, but once you ride one, you want them all. Looking for an excuse to get another, these Canfields are like damn Pringles.

  23. #323
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    Jminus, the DBAIR should show around 5mm left on the stanchion when fully bottomed out, in accordance to Cane Creek. I'm pretty light, around 150lbs, so no issues with harsh bottoming. I did bump up the HSC to 1 from full open. I think someone posted they added a volume spacer to make it more progressive. I have the MRP Stage and Pike. The Stage is awesome and the Pike is a close second. Try backing off the Ramp control one or two clicks and see how that feels. More ramp makes it progressive and less is linear.

    Erock, the Balance is one of the funnest bikes I have ever owned. Life is short, so there's no such thing as too many bike!

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottieM8 View Post
    Jminus, the DBAIR should show around 5mm left on the stanchion when fully bottomed out, in accordance to Cane Creek. I'm pretty light, around 150lbs, so no issues with harsh bottoming. I did bump up the HSC to 1 from full open. I think someone posted they added a volume spacer to make it more progressive.
    Good to know that the 5mm is expected. Makes it a bit hard to tell when the bottom has been hit though.

    The base tune for the balance is 0.5 clicks of HSC. I'm currently at 1.5 now. I didn't hit the g-out today, so I don't know if the harsh bottom out would still happen, but I did use all the travel off a few jumps. I am about 163 or so fully geared up, so not too different from you. What PSI are you running?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScottieM8 View Post
    I have the MRP Stage and Pike. The Stage is awesome and the Pike is a close second. Try backing off the Ramp control one or two clicks and see how that feels. More ramp makes it progressive and less is linear.
    I have a pike on my other bike. I agree that the stage seems better. I've been running with the manual's base recommendation of 5 clicks of ramp control and trying to find the PSI setting that will let me bottom the shock on the biggest hits. I wanted to keep some downward ramp adjustment in reserve in case I am riding somewhere where I feel like making it softer than "normal".

    Maybe that is the wrong way to go about it? Should I be finding my full travel pressure with no ramp at all?

  25. #325
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    Off the top of my head, I'm running 110 psi in the DBAir. I also backed off the low speed compression by one click from base tune to make it pop more. Every click makes a difference on this shock. I had the first run DBAir on my previous bike so I've played around with them for awhile. As for the Stage, I run 70 psi and 4 clicks of Ramp for trail riding. Rebound is set at 9 from closed. I use more ramp when I ride more agressive trails with drops, around 6 or 7. That's the magic of the Stage, no tokens to mess with. The on the fly air volume adjustment is genius.

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    I'm liking the way it rides right now, pretty much at the exact base tune on the website. The only issue is I'm finding the bottom pretty frequently. Most of the time the bottom out is so soft I can't feel it (which is totally fine with me) but I have had one pretty brutal bottom out over a high speed g-out.

    I've been dialing up the HSC, but it doesn't seem to be making a big difference (only have gone up 1 full rotation so far, so 1.5). Should I keep cranking it up or start looking at a different setting?

    Also, just to verify, full travel on the shock (on the balance) is not all the way to the end of the shock body right? I'm still seeing about .75cm of exposed body after I find the bottom (or at least what feels like the bottom) of the stroke.
    Same observations here. The base tune is pretty much spot on for trail riding. Once you start going bigger (and you will because the Balance begs for it) then you really start to notice the limitations of the CCDBA. It def. should come with one volume spacer IMHO. I found that cranking up the HSC just makes the ride harsher and doesn't really add much bottom out resistance. Just a 5 psi increase in air pressure tho can make or break a freeride outing so that's what I've done for now (140 psi, 185lb rider). Doing that will make the bike higher in it's travel tho so it doesn't rail corners as well; looks like I will bite the bullet and find some spacers. FWIW I'm super happy with my FR/Park tune which is 1/4 turn more HSC and HSR and 4 clicks more LSC and 2 more LSR. Keep fork in "trail" mode NOT open mode for FR jumps and berms (RS forks) or they will dive in berms/suck up the ramps too much. I've considered running the CCDBA in the closed mode too (for FR) but have been hesitant because of the seals issue. Anyone do so with good results without blowing the shock?

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  27. #327
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    Hey guys,

    I'm following this thread since some time and decided to share my experience with the balance 2016. I got it in May and and it still puts a smile on my face everytime i ride it. Here is the build i went with, gonna upgrade some parts next saison.

    RS Lyrik 170
    CCDAIR CS
    Hope Tech Enduro
    RS Reverb 150
    Shimano SLX 180 f/r
    SRAm 1x11 with a 30 teeth chainring
    Maxxis HR2 tubeless setup
    DMR Vault Pedals

    Currently I'm riding a 60mm stem since there have been some missunderstnadings when ordering, gonna swith to a 400mm stem in the next couple of weeks.

    Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_4497.jpgCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_4499.jpgCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_4501.jpgCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_4503.jpgCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_4505.jpgCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_4506.jpgCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_4508.jpgCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_4511.jpg

    Weight is around 15.2 KG. I was going for <15, but the budget was in the way.
    Gonna try to get under 15 next year by getting carbon bars and cranks.

    Anyway, i freaking love this bike. It climbs so incredible well and decends like a charm. The low bottom bracket is something i have to get used to...

    The only downside right now is the shock. Don't get me wrong, the DBAIR performas really well using the base setup. There are only two things bothering me. The audiovisual feedback when changing something is barely there: the clicks are barely hearable. Counterclockwise i can't even hear anything. But that a minor issue.
    The bigger issue is this:



    This happend after 5 or 6 rides. Additionally to the sound, the first cm of the travel feels odd, either when compressing it and releasing it as well. I noticed some other users had problems with the shock as well. Are there any more informations about this problem?

    But still, selling my Kona Coilair 2009 and getting this beast was the best choice ever.

    Greetings from Austria!

  28. #328
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    The gusset on the Balance looks so mean.

    I don't need it for my terrain, but I keep thinking the Balance is a great next bike because my wife will literally never know I switched from the Riot.

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    Same observations here. The base tune is pretty much spot on for trail riding. Once you start going bigger (and you will because the Balance begs for it) then you really start to notice the limitations of the CCDBA. It def. should come with one volume spacer IMHO. I found that cranking up the HSC just makes the ride harsher and doesn't really add much bottom out resistance. Just a 5 psi increase in air pressure tho can make or break a freeride outing so that's what I've done for now (140 psi, 185lb rider). Doing that will make the bike higher in it's travel tho so it doesn't rail corners as well; looks like I will bite the bullet and find some spacers. FWIW I'm super happy with my FR/Park tune which is 1/4 turn more HSC and HSR and 4 clicks more LSC and 2 more LSR. Keep fork in "trail" mode NOT open mode for FR jumps and berms (RS forks) or they will dive in berms/suck up the ramps too much. I've considered running the CCDBA in the closed mode too (for FR) but have been hesitant because of the seals issue. Anyone do so with good results without blowing the shock?

    Have FUN!

    G MAN

    Volume spacers might be the ticket. I reset my suspension back to base tune today and dropped pressure on the fork and made sure I was at 110 psi on the CCDBACS. I think I'm getting closer.

    The stage is almost using all its travel at 70psi with 5 clicks of ramp up. I'm gonna drop down to 4 (and on down to 0) until I get get it to bottom out.

    It seems like the softer fork relieved a bit of the work load for the shock. I was running the shock at Base tune + 0.5 HSC and while that nasty g-out found the bottom, it wasn't nearly as harsh. I did use most/all of the travel about 4-5 times on various jumps as well, which is still too often. I'm going to go to base tune + 1 HSC (1.5 HSC total) and try again.

    I would be curious to see how the volume spacer works out. I also would like to know what Canfield Bros think about the idea. I would assume there is a good reason they didn't include one with the shock. I'll email Vin.

    Regarding jumps and berms: the stage doesn't have a trail mode, but I'm pretty happy with where it rides in the travel (higher) in turns and on jump faces. I have been pre-loading balance on bigger jumps to get enough pop to clear the transition. I didn't really do that on my old bike. But I was also doing smaller jumps... not sure what is more correct in terms of jumping.

  30. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by keewe View Post
    This happend after 5 or 6 rides. Additionally to the sound, the first cm of the travel feels odd, either when compressing it and releasing it as well. I noticed some other users had problems with the shock as well. Are there any more informations about this problem?
    Nice looking bike! I love the gold and black. It even matches the shock!

    Your shock does not sound healthy. I would get in touch with Cane Creek. Seems like a warranty issue.

    Maybe keep the Coilair a bit longer so you have something to ride while your getting your shock serviced... Or buy a "spare" coil shock to throw on

    J

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    Regarding jumps and berms: the stage doesn't have a trail mode, but I'm pretty happy with where it rides in the travel (higher) in turns and on jump faces. I have been pre-loading balance on bigger jumps to get enough pop to clear the transition. I didn't really do that on my old bike. But I was also doing smaller jumps... not sure what is more correct in terms of jumping.
    Actually that's a good point as I've found I really have to pump the face of bigger doubles with the heavier Balance vs. my Bronson which I could just basically hang on and send with speed to clear. A carbon version sure would be nice!

    Cheers,

    G
    Last edited by Gman086; 07-06-2016 at 05:30 PM.
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  32. #332
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    After reading/responding to this post, I dug out some volume reducers that was left over from my previous DBAir. Starting out with 2 small bands and see how that goes. Heading out this evening for a ride. I'll report back with my findings.

    As far as carbon goes, took out my Nomad3 last weekend to a very rocky trail system that I frequent. Got home and saw some big gouges on the frame from rocks hitting it. They seem to be superficial and I have the frame cover with 3M heli-tape. The Balance has been on the same trail and rocks have definitely pinged off the frame and the bike is unscathed. This thing is a tank! Actually ride the Balance with more confidence because of that fact. Yeah I know carbon is strong and yada yada but after seeing exhibit A and B, I just feel better on the Aluminum Balance right now.

  33. #333
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    After corresponding with Sean and Vin about the volume reducers, I will hold off on ordering some and will continue to try and tune the shock as is. They said that the suspension is designed around a more linear spring rate and going to a more progressive spring will lose some of the balance's deep feeling.

    They also said that I shouldn't be so concerned about bottoming the shock out and that I should actually be aiming to bottom out the shock on a somewhat regular basis as long as it is not a harsh bottom. This indicates that I'm effectively utilizing all the travel the bike has to offer.

    So, I'm going to keep playing around with it but I'm going to change my tuning target from "only bottom once per ride on the biggest, nastiest hit" to "bottom out on bigger features, but never harshly".

    I'll see where that takes me and report back.

    Of course, I'll still curious to hear what others' experience with a reducer in place, so let us know what you find @ScottieM8.

  34. #334
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    There is definitely a sweet spot with air pressure, after that, get the lsc set so it pedals like you want, then I tuned the hsc starting at full open to just enough to not bottom hard on the biggest stuff I hit. Haven't touched it since, riding everything from xc flow singletrack, to more AM/gnarly trail to bike park.

  35. #335
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    I went on a 14 mile ride with the 2 small volume reducers and reset to base tune. I used 10 psi less than usual to get proper sag. It felt a little more supple through some rock gardens. Did not use full travel but didn't do anything gnarly. Going to ride my favorite trail this weekend that has tons of big rocks and drops so that will be a better assessment. Love to tinker with things and the DBAir allows that. Will report back later.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    After corresponding with Sean and Vin about the volume reducers, I will hold off on ordering some and will continue to try and tune the shock as is. They said that the suspension is designed around a more linear spring rate and going to a more progressive spring will lose some of the balance's deep feeling.

    They also said that I shouldn't be so concerned about bottoming the shock out and that I should actually be aiming to bottom out the shock on a somewhat regular basis as long as it is not a harsh bottom. This indicates that I'm effectively utilizing all the travel the bike has to offer.
    I've noticed that - I don't hear that loud KACHUNK when it bottoms like you do on the Fox air shocks. In fact I don't really notice it but I was getting worried when I use all the travel on an XC trail with nothing more than 2' drops which had me really puzzled. My guess is that there is an aggressive urethane bottom out bumper inside the shock. PUSH and AVY both use that trick on their custom tunes if you get their "aggressive" or "freeride" tunes.

    Have FUN!

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  37. #337
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    Does the Balance blow thru its travel easily?

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    Does the Balance blow thru its travel easily?
    No, it does well. I am about 185 and run mine on the soft side. Moving the ring when beginning my ride I get a lot of activity on small roots and bumps but stays in mid travel range.

    Only when I hit square shots at high speed or larger drops to flat do I get anywhere close to bottoming out, but it never feels like it ends.

    I am not running any volume reducers. I know when my buddy got his reign, the debonair would go straight through every bit of the travel with no progression before adding some volume reducers.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  39. #339
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    No. It's mildly progressive and feels deep and supportive on big hits. I don't think anyone is noticing midstroke wallow or harsh bottom-outs.

    It definitely doesn't have a have the sort of flat/regressive end of the leverage curve that world necessitate a low volume air can, like a dw-link or similar.

  40. #340
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    Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance

    I did my normal ride today with the shock at base tune +0.5 HSC and -0.5 HSR and I think I have it about dialed. I'm running the fork much softer and the shock and fork feel nicely balanced (haha). I'm still not getting full travel yet on the fork, but pretty close.

    The dirt was in epic shape today and the Balance just ripped. I beat my downhill PRs, nailed all the jumps and drops and absolutely crushed (aka almost over sent) some of the biggest ones. In other words, I had a lot of confidence in the bike and I was hauling ass.

    I never felt the shock bottom out even once but when I finished my run, the o-ring was at full travel. Pretty awesome actually.

  41. #341
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    I should also mention that I set PRs for the main climbs pedaling the B up our local hill the day before. Pretty amazing considering my old bike was carbon and quite a bit lighter. So faster up and down. Gonna take it on some XC style backcountry epics next weekend. I'm stoked!

  42. #342
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    Went on a back to back ride with the DBAIRCS with two small bands in and the second ride with no bands. I just want to mention that I had no issues with how the Balance handled with the initial settings that the brothers set for the shock. People on this forum, including myself, was curious how it would ride by making it a little more progressive. Furthermore, I am no suspension expert and will never claim to be. Just like to tinker because it's fun. These results are just my opinion, and as I mention wanting to give some feedback for Balance riders

    The Balance was on my favorite trail that has almost endless rock gardens, drops, and tons of square edge hits. It's that type of trail that goes up all the way and then blaze down like a bat out of hell.

    Saturday ride:
    With the 2 small tuning bands in, the bike did ride higher in its travel. The suspension seem to skip over the rocks while climbing. It felt stiffer going uphill. On the way down, my initial thought was it felt supple but after a long descent with lots of jarring hits, my opinion changed. In no way it was overly harsh, but the suspension was not as smooth. The bike didn't have that magic carpet ride. It rode more like a "race" bike.

    Sunday ride:
    Took out the bands and headed out again on the same trail with the same riding buddy.
    The climbs were more comfortable going over the rocks. The bike gripped the ground and rocks instead of skipping over them. On the down, the Balance held the line on the rough and rocky straight away better. Once again, glue to the ground stability. Taking moderate drops at speed is where this bike shines. It feels stable in the air and when you land, it absorbs and propels you forward instantly, instead of bouncing you up and then forward. My buddy who also has a Balance notices that positive trait too. He says this thing jumps and lands like a cat.

    In conclusion, if you want a firm racier feel, then maybe add in the bands. If you like that magic carpet ride, leave it in the original format. The fellas at Canfield know their stuff. The funnest bike I've owned for me so far.

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottieM8 View Post
    ...
    In conclusion, if you want a firm racier feel, then maybe add in the bands. If you like that magic carpet ride, leave it in the original format. The fellas at Canfield know their stuff. The funnest bike I've owned for me so far.
    Thanks for being the guinea pig. I want the magic carpet ride, so I'm staying stock.

    Had an awesome ride this weekend on some full on DH style trails. This bike gives me so much more confidence that I find myself jumping stuff I never thought I would touch. I did have a noticeable bottom out on the same g-out that i've previously had issues with. No issues bottoming on jumps or drops to flat though. I bumped the shock psi up to 115 and went back to the base tune to see how that works. Maybe a bit less sag is in order.

  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    Thanks for being the guinea pig. I want the magic carpet ride, so I'm staying stock.

    Had an awesome ride this weekend on some full on DH style trails. This bike gives me so much more confidence that I find myself jumping stuff I never thought I would touch. I did have a noticeable bottom out on the same g-out that i've previously had issues with. No issues bottoming on jumps or drops to flat though. I bumped the shock psi up to 115 and went back to the base tune to see how that works. Maybe a bit less sag is in order.
    Add some HSC.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Add some HSC.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk
    I have been as high as 2. I don't want to harsh out the ride though. I really like the way the bike feels at 0.5 for traction and cornering.

  46. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by jminus View Post
    I have been as high as 2. I don't want to harsh out the ride though. I really like the way the bike feels at 0.5 for traction and cornering.
    How much sag are you using now?

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  47. #347
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    Glad to give some info about the shock settings. Plus it satisfied my curiosity. Didn't even occur to me to add in the spacers until a few people mention it and that's why I wanted to give it a go.

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    How much sag are you using now?

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk
    Isn't that question a little personal?

  49. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenema View Post
    Isn't that question a little personal?
    I hope so.

    Sent from my D6708 using Tapatalk

  50. #350
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    I set it up for 21mm per the CC base tune tool on Canfield Bros' web site. That took 110 psi. I haven't re-measured sag since I bumped it to 115, but I'll do it next time I gear up for a ride.

    @Colin+M, how much HSC do you run? Vin and Sean suggested that I want to get away with as little a possible to keep the suspension performing as designed/intended.

  51. #351
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    Finally got to ride my Balance. It handled so different from my TBLT that it is gong to take some time to get used to. It climbs suprisingly well. Seems to take off instantly. Instead of the VPP feeling of initially absorbing some of your power. To be fair the VPP would probably work better with some shock work. It's also very quick steering. Built it for DH, so running 800mm bars, with 20mm rise I think, with 35mm stem. Feels small. My seat is slightly higher than my bars. I'm 5'10" with long arms and legs, on a large. Thinking of changing to a 50mm stem. I know a lot of people have gone to shorter stem. Has anyone gone from short to long stem. So far I'm enjoying it, but might take a little time to really get used to it.

  52. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rone Turner View Post
    Thinking of changing to a 50mm stem. I know a lot of people have gone to shorter stem. Has anyone gone from short to long stem.
    Yes. I started with a 60mm stem on my Balance, tried a 40mm stem, and I think I've settled back on the 60mm stem. The 60mm felt better for descending. With the 40mm, I felt too much like the bars were more "under" me than "in front" of me. It wasn't a good feeling. This was after adding close to an inch of stack height under the stem.

    I'm 6'0" with a 32" inseam on a Large frame, for reference.

  53. #353
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    Thanks for the reply. I have the same kind of feeling. Also plenty of stack. Going to put the 50mm on and see how it feels.

  54. #354
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    Picking up the eleven-six today and putting a longer travel dropper on. Beyond stoked to see how this weapon handles with a coil out back!

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrennan View Post
    Picking up the eleven-six today and putting a longer travel dropper on. Beyond stoked to see how this weapon handles with a coil out back!


    that ain't just "a coil" you're puttin' on there!
    breezy shade

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrennan View Post
    Picking up the eleven-six today and putting a longer travel dropper on. Beyond stoked to see how this weapon handles with a coil out back!
    Can't wait to hear about that! In detail, please!

    -C.O.

  57. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Oldschool View Post
    Can't wait to hear about that! In detail, please!

    -C.O.
    Will report back after a weekend of abuse at trestle and on an xc ride.

  58. #358
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    Looks like you'll win the ELEVENSIX race, being in the greater Denver area. Mine should have shipped yesterday to arrive between Friday and Monday. I may have to reign in my stoke and "suffer" another weekend on the DBAir.

    How did you order your two valves set up? I asked for a full chunky DH setup on one and a more "trail" valve, for smoother hardpack, flow trails, jumps, berms, etc with some platform to push against. The dual valves, not having to decide between a "plow" tune and a "poppy" tune, was what really sold me on the ELEVENSIX, as opposed to an Avalanche, Jade, etc.

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    Looks like you'll win the ELEVENSIX race, being in the greater Denver area. Mine should have shipped yesterday to arrive between Friday and Monday. I may have to reign in my stoke and "suffer" another weekend on the DBAir.

    How did you order your two valves set up? I asked for a full chunky DH setup on one and a more "trail" valve, for smoother hardpack, flow trails, jumps, berms, etc with some platform to push against. The dual valves, not having to decide between a "plow" tune and a "poppy" tune, was what really sold me on the ELEVENSIX, as opposed to an Avalanche, Jade, etc.
    I ordered a similar set up. One for rough and rowdy with traction in mind and one for fast flow/jump trails (rainmaker at trestle was how I described to push). I never really used the climb switch anyways so I decided to gamble without a dedicated climb setting. I ordered it because my dbair was having issues.

  60. #360
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    I don't think it's much of a gamble to run the Balance without a climb switch. It pedals pretty efficiently in full-open (unless you're standing and stomping), and adding a whole lot of C-damping just hurts traction rather than improving efficiency much. It isn't anything like, say, the Knolly Warden, where PUSH recommends setting one valve as a dedicated sprinting/climbing switch.

    The tech I spoke to said the flow/trail/jump valve would have enough range in the adjustment knobs to really firm it up for fire roads and long smooth climbs, if you wanted. I'm fairly sure I'd just forget to set it back at the top of the climb, but the option's there.

  61. #361
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    Any news when Push will have an ElevenSix for the Riot?

  62. #362
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    If for some reason you lucky guys that bought the Eleven-Six and don't want it in the short coming, send it my way Curious also so please let us know asap.

  63. #363
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    Have any Balance owners come up with a creative way to keep mud off the rear tire out of the linkage? I was thinking of trying to make a small muckynutz style mud guard to deflect some of the trail crud.

  64. #364
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    shiny

    First ride on the shock tonight... It passes the parking lot squish test with flying colorsCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_20160713_181815.jpg

  65. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrennan View Post
    First ride on the shock tonight...Click image for larger version. 

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    I think we have the same chairs...might end up with the same shock...

  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by acfsportsfan View Post
    Any news when Push will have an ElevenSix for the Riot?
    Call 'em and ask.

    I know the Balance they tested came from Canfield and wasn't a customer bike. I think they stopped asking for volunteer bikes for shock fitment due to some liability reasons.

  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    Call 'em and ask.

    I know the Balance they tested came from Canfield and wasn't a customer bike. I think they stopped asking for volunteer bikes for shock fitment due to some liability reasons.
    I was hoping someone had some inside info. I think there sick of me calling every couple of weeks.

  68. #368
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    A little birdie told me they may have a Riot in house as we speak.

  69. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    Call 'em and ask.

    I know the Balance they tested came from Canfield and wasn't a customer bike. I think they stopped asking for volunteer bikes for shock fitment due to some liability reasons.
    That explains that. I kept hoping for a free shock. Haha

  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenngineer View Post
    I think we have the same chairs...might end up with the same shock...
    Yup I recommend the Eleven Six. Did a lap at white ranch in golden (also recommend that trail, its like the balance was built for it). But the shock shatters expectations of suppleness and is the closest to a zero stiction suspension product i have ever felt. I need some more time to figure out the two settings (i was too excited to even pay attention). But when I stood up and pressed hard on the cranks, it was supportive (i give a lot of credit to the balance for this) and the wheel tracked the ground so nicely. so ya. more extensive review following a day at trestle on it.

  71. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrennan View Post
    so ya. more extensive review following a day at trestle on it.
    Awesome to see some more Canfields getting Push'd! I know you'll love it. Are you going to be at Trestle this weekend? I'm going to be there tomorrow with my 2015 Balance with an 11/6. I'll keep an eye out for ya if you're around.

  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Smith View Post
    Awesome to see some more Canfields getting Push'd! I know you'll love it. Are you going to be at Trestle this weekend? I'm going to be there tomorrow with my 2015 Balance with an 11/6. I'll keep an eye out for ya if you're around.
    i was gonna be there sunday. pretty stoked about the whole thing. it makes me wonder how a coil up front would be.......

  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrennan View Post
    i was gonna be there sunday. pretty stoked about the whole thing. it makes me wonder how a coil up front would be.......
    Nice. I might still be there on Sunday if everything works out. I'm interested in a coil fork too, but the weight is too big of a concern at the moment. I know my Pike certainly feels undermatched compared to the 11/6, but I'm still not ready to take that weight penalty up front. The Balance is just begging to be thrown around, manual'd, etc... Just adding a heavy DH tire on front really takes away from that playfulness, so I'm not sure I want to add the weight of a coil fork. It would certainly plow through stuff, but I think some of the fun factor might be lost. Word on the street is that PUSH is working on a coil fork, but we'll have to see what it weighs when it's finished.

  74. #374
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    Well, FedEx was generous today. I got my ELEVENSIX mounted up and ready for a ride tomorrow.

    I noticed right off the bat that it's larger in my hands than expected - the valve and reservoir assembly is really massive compared to other piggybacks. Also, the shock mount hardware is lower friction than what CC puts on the DBAir. I can't tell much about performance in the basement, other than it does feel really low-stiction. Whoever said the shock moves when you sigh heavily while in the saddle wasn't exaggerating.

    For those curious about weight, the net increase looks like 340g = 0.75lb. Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_20160715_192833.jpgCanfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_20160715_192743.jpg

    My scale is generally accurate within about 1%. (250mL of water at room temp weighs in at 247g, for example)

  75. #375
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    Taking my new Balance to the bike park this weekend. I'm not planning to huck. More like just flow down the trails. Do you guys recommend I stick with the base tune? Avoiding any big drops and for jumps I'm still learning so mostly rolling over the table tops.

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeventures View Post
    Taking my new Balance to the bike park this weekend. I'm not planning to huck. More like just flow down the trails. Do you guys recommend I stick with the base tune? Avoiding any big drops and for jumps I'm still learning so mostly rolling over the table tops.
    Base tune is fine. Took mine out to Angel Fire and it did great. If you are going to do jumps, then add 1/2 more on the HSC. I seem to grab the Balance more than my other bikes lately, even for 20 plus miles ride.

  77. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeventures View Post
    Taking my new Balance to the bike park this weekend. I'm not planning to huck. More like just flow down the trails. Do you guys recommend I stick with the base tune? Avoiding any big drops and for jumps I'm still learning so mostly rolling over the table tops.
    Don't limit yourself. I'm not a huge jumper, but I found myself letting loose and doing 8ft+ drops and clearing tabletops just because it feels so stable and in control on the DH.

  78. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by twarner21609 View Post
    Don't limit yourself. I'm not a huge jumper, but I found myself letting loose and doing 8ft+ drops and clearing tabletops just because it feels so stable and in control on the DH.
    I'm not doubting the bike's abilities, I'm doubting my abilities

    First time to bike park this season, I'm going to work my way up.

  79. #379
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    I finally got some good ride time in with the ELEVENSIX. I'm pretty happy overall. I did about 30 miles over two days of AM riding on fast and smooth-ish trails with jumps and features. The Balance is still super fast, stable yet maneuverable, etc. On one 3ish min descent I dropped 33 seconds from my previous PR, which itself was a 17sec drop I managed on my first ride on the Balance. Pretty happy with the purchase.

    The ELEVENSIX is also pretty special. Compared to a good air shock, it's sensitivity is just so noticeable, it's the first thing someone mentions when they take it for a little test pedal. I'm going to service my fork early since it feels so harsh and stiff compared to the rear end. I think it's a good problem to have.

    I spent most of my time in my trail/pump/jump setting, and used both that and my open DH setting for some of the rooty/rocky/rutty descents. The firmer flow setting definitely has some platform to push against, which is what I'd hoped for. I didn't feel like I had an "oh crap, wrong setting for this trail" moment. I haven't played with the compression settings on either valve beyond making sure they matched the recommendations on the tuning card.

    I've also noticed that I have gobs and gobs of climbing traction. It isn't a subtle thing. Near the end of the ride, when I'm sloppy, I can just keep my weight centered and try to motor up the tech instead of having to take command and really manage my torque and weight distribution. That's awesome, especially since I like to run a semi-slick out back.

    I also got the chance to test out my DIY car-top tent camping platform. Should be perfect for parking-lot camping at races. I'm pretty pleased with the results.

    Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance-img_20160723_181730.jpg

  80. #380
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    Beautiful setup on both the Balance and the raised loft tent. Thanks for the write up on the Eleven-Six.

  81. #381
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    How many people are running chain guides? I am thinking of putting one on but when i mock it up on the bike it seems like it wont have enough clearance when the suspension compresses. i have a small mrp top guide if that is important.

  82. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrennan View Post
    How many people are running chain guides? I am thinking of putting one on but when i mock it up on the bike it seems like it wont have enough clearance when the suspension compresses. i have a small mrp top guide if that is important.
    I'm not running one, no issues!

    My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by waveslayer View Post
    I'm not running one, no issues!

    My wife thinks I only have 3 guns
    I am not currently running one and I was fine. But this past weekend I dropped my chain like 3 times. And that is scary when you are going mach chicken at a jump.

  84. #384
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    Many guides assume there's clearance for a front derailleur and use that space. The Balance, of course, puts aluminum in that area up to be one stiff-assed mother****er. Not all guides fit, which is probably why the Bros recommend the MRP AMg v2.

    I personally have tried fitting the OneUp top guide (since it's what I have on hand and I run an oval) and it doesn't fit when installed as instructed. It will barely clear the frame if you rotate it as far forward (clockwise) as you can, but then it doesn't stabilize the chain on its way to the chainring. It might work with some creative spacers, but I wouldn't recommend it.

  85. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    Many guides assume there's clearance for a front derailleur and use that space. The Balance, of course, puts aluminum in that area up to be one stiff-assed mother****er. Not all guides fit, which is probably why the Bros recommend the MRP AMg v2.

    I personally have tried fitting the OneUp top guide (since it's what I have on hand and I run an oval) and it doesn't fit when installed as instructed. It will barely clear the frame if you rotate it as far forward (clockwise) as you can, but then it doesn't stabilize the chain on its way to the chainring. It might work with some creative spacers, but I wouldn't recommend it.
    Thank you. I might just deal with the dropped chain issue and replace chain and chainring and will probably be fine

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrennan View Post
    Thank you. I might just deal with the dropped chain issue and replace chain and chainring and will probably be fine

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    I had 3 dropped chains on a nasty rock garden. Ended up being my rear derailleur. I had to tighten up the clutch on my XT derailleur. Solved it. Then I took it off and went with a XX1 SRAM derailleur and I have never had an issue with it. Yes, I have done the same trail over and over again

    My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

  87. #387
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    I'm waiting for my first chain drop before I get a guide...

    ...but I hit on 17 too

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    Wonder if the new OneUp chain guide would work. It is small like the MRP AMG V2. Comes with or without bash guard.

  89. #389
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    I'm running the AMG guide/guard that the bros sell. Very happy with it. No dropped chains and I have made use of the bash guard a few times already.

  90. #390
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    Love the MRP AMg guides, using them on a riot and EPO. Also have been happy to have the bash a couple times, and haven't dropped a chain either.

  91. #391
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    good input all. I appreciate it. hoping new chain and chain ring fixes the dropped chain issue but if not, i know what guide to get

  92. #392
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    Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance-20160501_112529.jpg
    I like the G4, because it tucks the chain in,with the big cog. *some modification required

  93. #393
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    I've had enough rides now to share my Balance build.

    Canfield Brothers 2016 Balance-canfield.jpg

    Small Black frame
    160mm RS Pike RCT3 Solo Air
    RaceFace Atlas 800mm handlebar
    Kona 40mm stem
    ODI Vans grips
    1x10 Sram XO drive train (shifter and deraileur)
    Sram PG1050 cassette plus OneUp 42t cog
    RaceFace Turbine cinch cranks 175mm with 30t narrow wide ring
    RF BSA bottom bracket
    Canfield Ultimate Crampon pedals
    Sram Guide R brakes 200/180
    Fox Transfer dropper post with 1x remote
    Stans Flow Ex wheels
    Maxxis DHF 2.3 front tire set up tubeless
    Maxxis Aggressor 2.3 rear tire tubeless
    Weighs 33/32 pounds depending on scale

    I honestly thought I come closer to 30 pounds with small frame, 1x XO, and tubeless setup.

  94. #394
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    I got mine down to 30lbs with I9 wheels and moderate tires, HRII 2.3 front and Hans Dampf 2.25 rear. Those 2.25 Hans Dampf are alomst as wide as most 2.35 tires. When beefier tires are used, then it can add a pound or two. My bars are carbon and only 720 wide which suits me well because I seem to whack trees and cactus with wider bars, see Richie Rudes build on Pinkbike and he has the same issues. All those little grams do add up. Oh, 170mm cranks will save you little weight and smacking your pedals on rocky climbs.

  95. #395
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    I knew bike wasn't going to be a light build. Compared to my aluminum Giant Trance, it's only a 3 pound difference. Factor in my weight, it's only a 1% difference. My climbs have been a little slower. A minute here, 30 seconds here. That doesn't bother me.

    But what caught me off guard was on flat trails with rolling terrain. Feels like the Balance loses momentum a little easier than my Trance. I know it's part of nature of long travel AM bikes. Any tips to help make my Balance feel like it has a little more pep on rolling trails?

  96. #396
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    You've got quite a bit in rotational weight with those wheels and tires, but hard to trade off traction for weight. Also, is the aggressor rotating in the right direction?

  97. #397
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    The Aggressor was installed backwards. Didnt notice until I saw the arrow pointing towards the top of the mountain. Had shop reinstall rear tire and the arrow is pointing downhill now.

  98. #398
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    I think I'm sitting around 36 pounds(large), with saint brakes and cranks, and onyx hubs, those are all a fair amount heavier than other options. I don't seem to notice the weight climbing, or on flat ground, though, compared to my Ibis Mojo SL(27.5#)

  99. #399
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    Regarding overall bike weight, the last couple pounds are all in components, 50 and 100g at a time. RF Atlas DH bars are 80g heavier than carbon SIXC DH bars, the Kona stem could easily be 100g heavier than something like a Syntace Megaforce 2. The Guide Rs are about 100g heavier than SLX/XT and like 150-180g heavier than XTR and Guide Ultimates, per wheel. You could also loose 100g-200g from the wheelset without going crazy.

    But yeah, I think you're going to have a real hard time getting a Balance significantly below 31lbs without sacrificing capability and durability (skinnier or fragile tires, no dropper, weight weenie wheels, lighter shock, etc).

    Speaking of shocks, I be the Vector Air HLR would be a good way to drop 100g over the DB Air, assuming X-Fusion has a good tune for the frame (which shouldn't be a problem). I really liked that shock on my Mojo HD and bet it'd work well here too. Of course, if someone's switching shocks just to drop 100g, the Balance might not be the best fit for them anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeventures View Post
    The Aggressor was installed backwards.
    The giveaway is that all the logos go on the drive side. Non-drive only has the yellow Maxxis.

    Any tips to help make my Balance feel like it has a little more pep on rolling trails?
    I'd assume you're running faster-rolling tires on your Trance. You might swap to something less grippy. I'm addicted to the big cornering traction, so for the rolling trails I'd suggest moving the Aggressor to the front and putting a Minion SS on the rear. That should still be aggressive enough to still stretch the Balance's legs. Though you may find it more fun to just keep the brawny rubber on all the time.

  100. #400
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    My Trance has 2.25 Nobby Nics, but wheels are stock, heavy XC-2 with tubes. I guess rolling resistance and bigger travel has more effect. The Giant Reign 2 demo felt a tad more sluggish on climbs and flats than my Trance too.

    Unless you guys feel like your Balance rides just like a lighter 130/140 trail bike, I'm going to get use to my Balance and enjoy the downhills

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