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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    Yup I was looking at ETT length and reach. How would this translate?
    IMO, reach is most relevant to how the bike will feel standing up.

    ETT is most relevant to how it will feel when seated. The caveat is that the feel when seated will be affected by whether you move the saddle forward or backward on the rails. Because the STA is 76 degrees, I'd need to slam the saddle back as far a it would go, effectively expanding my seated cockpit.

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    Unless you look at effective top tube length.
    Effective top tube length is the measurement from the head tube to the seat tube on a horizontal plane. It is still dependent on seat tube angle.

    For two bikes with the exact effective top tube length, the bike with the steeper seat angle will have a longer reach.

  3. #303
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    so how does this compare to the Balance?

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_Man View Post
    IMO, reach is most relevant to how the bike will feel standing up.

    ETT is most relevant to how it will feel when seated. The caveat is that the feel when seated will be affected by whether you move the saddle forward or backward on the rails. Because the STA is 76 degrees, I'd need to slam the saddle back as far a it would go, effectively expanding my seated cockpit.
    Agreed.

  5. #305
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    I just pre-ordered a small raw. This is the bike I have been waiting for and I have missed having a raw bike since I sold my last Turner. Now I need to sell my Kona Process and my Intense Carbine.
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwu_1 View Post
    so how does this compare to the Balance?
    This one has 29er wheels. The balance is 650b. :-P


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #307
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    Well this will probably be my next bike. Think I'll keep my process until these are available in the late summer/fall. New wheels are on the way but will easily transfer once the Riot is available. Hope there will be a few extra XLs in the August shipment.

  8. #308
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    There's quite a few hard questions here so I'll address them as well as I can.

    Is this the "One-9" bike? For me, this year I was planning to only ride a Riot. I had such a great time on it last year, I didn't feel I needed another bike in the stable (I travel full time so space is limited).
    I've done most of the racing I planned to do already this spring on my Jedi, the rest of the year is purly "FUN" riding and the Riot fits that bill perfectly, from enduro to lift serve.

    Seat-tube angle is a tricky one; We pushed the limit of travel vs the shortest chainstays possible so the seat tube gets offset forward and then slacked out to get your butt in the right spot. The TT is measured
    level with the top of the head tube but most people run their seat higher than that. If you measure effective seat tube angle at 32" (a typical inseam) the seat angle is closer to 74.5 degrees effective. Although
    this might still seem a bit on the steep side, with suspension, as soon as you sag into the travel the seat angle slackens out another couple degrees. Now we're down to about 72.5 degree effective seat tube angle
    which is spot on. All of this is a difficult balance but with our 15 years of experience and being able to test prototypes before production, we knew we were on the right track. However, through testing, Chris
    and I agreed that we needed to go 1/2 degree steeper than the protos for the perfect uphill seat placement (the important part of seat angle).

    Being a 29" wheeled bike, we knew a greater amount of customers would be on the tall side of the spectrum. We wanted to give a better range of fit for the majority. The reach sizing is one full size bigger than
    the Balance, however the effective TT is only slighty longer, about 1/4". This helps gives the Riot a "in the bike" feel. This also is a somewhat misleading number as it relates to the seat tube angle; those
    effective top tube numbers will get longer when you lift the seat to the proper pedaling height.

    Both of these geometry aspects are what give you the ability to run a longer reach and a shorter stem, i.e. killer modern geo.

    Yes, we offer the frame with or without shock.

    The size of the frame in the picture is a custom size (not production) that fits ME perfectly. Some of you may remember, we built our bikes for quite a few years with some odd sizing, it was my exact sizing that I like to ride.
    Chris and I are both 6' tall, both DH type guys and wanting the most nimble geo we can make. So when I had the oportunity to make a perfect size for me, well I did. It's a medium/large, this is only a prototype sizing, not production.
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  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by ast View Post
    Will XTR or XX1 cranks have enough clearance?
    We built and shot the media bike specifically with X0 cranks to show Srams will fit without issues on our Riot. XTR runs extremely narrow, we will have to check the numbers on that for you.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    This one has 29er wheels. The balance is 650b. :-P


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    Good one! I'm wondering which one to pick? Balance or riot? I have a yelli and a 5010c. Wanting something more burly for rougher trails and maybe a little bit of park riding(although I suck so park riding would be very very limited). Original plan was to get the Balance but now with the riot I'm not so sure anymore

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike View Post
    There's quite a few hard questions here so I'll address them as well as I can.

    Is this the "One-9" bike? For me, this year I was planning to only ride a Riot. I had such a great time on it last year, I didn't feel I needed another bike in the stable (I travel full time so space is limited).
    I've done most of the racing I planned to do already this spring on my Jedi, the rest of the year is purly "FUN" riding and the Riot fits that bill perfectly, from enduro to lift serve.

    Seat-tube angle is a tricky one; We pushed the limit of travel vs the shortest chainstays possible so the seat tube gets offset forward and then slacked out to get your butt in the right spot. The TT is measured
    level with the top of the head tube but most people run their seat higher than that. If you measure effective seat tube angle at 32" (a typical inseam) the seat angle is closer to 74.5 degrees effective. Although
    this might still seem a bit on the steep side, with suspension, as soon as you sag into the travel the seat angle slackens out another couple degrees. Now we're down to about 72.5 degree effective seat tube angle
    which is spot on. All of this is a difficult balance but with our 15 years of experience and being able to test prototypes before production, we knew we were on the right track. However, through testing, Chris
    and I agreed that we needed to go 1/2 degree steeper than the protos for the perfect uphill seat placement (the important part of seat angle).

    Being a 29" wheeled bike, we knew a greater amount of customers would be on the tall side of the spectrum. We wanted to give a better range of fit for the majority. The reach sizing is one full size bigger than
    the Balance, however the effective TT is only slighty longer, about 1/4". This helps gives the Riot a "in the bike" feel. This also is a somewhat misleading number as it relates to the seat tube angle; those
    effective top tube numbers will get longer when you lift the seat to the proper pedaling height.

    Both of these geometry aspects are what give you the ability to run a longer reach and a shorter stem, i.e. killer modern geo.

    Yes, we offer the frame with or without shock.

    The size of the frame in the picture is a custom size (not production) that fits ME perfectly. Some of you may remember, we built our bikes for quite a few years with some odd sizing, it was my exact sizing that I like to ride.
    Chris and I are both 6' tall, both DH type guys and wanting the most nimble geo we can make. So when I had the oportunity to make a perfect size for me, well I did. It's a medium/large, this is only a prototype sizing, not production.
    So for us mere mortals at 5'11 who don't have a DH background, do you recommend the medium or large?

  12. #312
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    Your on the cusp but I'd say large. Most people these days are sizing up and with short stay like this, it total makes sense. Assuming your running a short stem.
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  13. #313
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    I'm used to a 40mm stem, so I'll take your advice and go large.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike View Post
    The size of the frame in the picture is a custom size (not production) that fits ME perfectly. Some of you may remember, we built our bikes for quite a few years with some odd sizing, it was my exact sizing that I like to ride.
    Chris and I are both 6' tall, both DH type guys and wanting the most nimble geo we can make. So when I had the oportunity to make a perfect size for me, well I did. It's a medium/large, this is only a prototype sizing, not production.
    I'm 6'2 and ride a medium Yelli...which I LOVE! Should I go with the medium Riot or large? Actually, the medium/large you have sounds perfect AND I live in Bellingham. How about you just leave it at the warehouse so I can pick it up and ride it when I want?

    Bike looks great, BTW.
    Extreme stationary biker.

  15. #315
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    Two suspension related questions.

    -Would a coil shock work with the Balance Formula characteristics?

    -Is there green light to run a 160mm fork without an external cup?

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike View Post
    Your on the cusp but I'd say large. Most people these days are sizing up and with short stay like this, it total makes sense. Assuming your running a short stem.
    Hey Lance, what is the weight of your Riot in the photos?

  17. #317
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    Bravo guys! This is the perfect geo and travel for me and it just so happens that my birthday is in August

  18. #318
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    Well Shit, I went ahead and ordered one. Time to get the Lenz up for sale
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  19. #319
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    What size did you get?

  20. #320
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    I went Large Black with Fern links to match my Sour Apple King hubs. Took advantage of the $20 off the pedal combo and got the pedals in Fern as well since those were on closeout. Can't beat some Ultimates for $109 new.
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  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    Our website server has been a bit overwhelmed today, that is a great sign that news of the Riot is spreading like crazy!

    I wanted to try to answer to your questions here in a single post:

    For those of you inquiring about a Riot frame only, (no shock), please email us directly. We spent the last year testing the Inline and Air CS shocks and want to be sure if you are sourcing something else that the performance will be on par with our those shocks to give you the best possible performance on the Riot.

    Projected weight of the Riot is around 7lbs for the frame, plus 355g Inline and 531g for the Air CS.
    Attachment 983252
    Attachment 983253

    The Riot has gobs of tire clearance. We are running a Maxxis Minion 2.5 and have plenty of clearance for the good ole PNW mud. As far as 27.5+, the Riot is optimized to be the most fun 29er on the market. We don't have 27.5+ experience on this bike, however the extra 1/2” of BB drop would concern me.
    So some of the 27.5+ x 3.25's might clear and would probably not have the 1/2 inch bb drop?Should that be the case and once I sell my yelli I will be calling with my cc ready to go!

  22. #322
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    Wish it was available earlier because I would buy it for my wife but she needs a bike much sooner but it's on the 2 bike short list for me.

  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    I'm used to a 40mm stem, so I'll take your advice and go large.
    Really interested to see how this goes. The reach on this bike is huge.

  24. #324
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    It is, but the seat angle is pretty steep so I think and trust Canfield that the large will be the right size.

    My Banshee Phantom had a 450mm reach and fit me well.

    Currently on the Evil Following which has a reach of 439mm, but has a much slacker seat angle so cockpit length while seated should be about the same.

  25. #325
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    The more I look at it, is the 18" reach for a Large accurate? That's a longer reach than many XLs.

  26. #326
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    Same as the large transition smuggler and actually shorter than the large Kona Process 111.

  27. #327
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    It's just tough to size a bike like this (with radical geometry numbers) when you can't sit on one. I'm tempted to assume that since I'm comfortable on most larges (except Ibis) that large would be right for me here. I've literally never seen a Canfield bike in person, so the chances of getting a test ride are low. Really looking forward to how the large works out for you. The reach on this bike is 43mm longer than an XL Ripley!

  28. #328
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    I mainly just get a laugh out of it because of how much "you must size your bike based on reach!" chatter there is on the internet these days. If you can comfortably ride bikes with ~2" differences in reach measurements, maybe sizing on reach isn't the most reliable method.

  29. #329
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    I will say this in regard to the XL Ripley...due to the slacker seat angle compared to my Phantom, the measured distance from the nose of my saddle at full extension to the center of my top cap was longer than the same measurement on the Phantom even though the Phantom's reach was 35mm longer.

  30. #330
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    Here's an example: let's say I'm comfortable on my Large TB LTc with a 55mm stem. If you compare the reach, that would correspond to a small Riot, but I'm 6' tall.

    If I buy a Riot, it will be a large. My point is just that you can't really size bikes off reach alone, as much as people preach that.

  31. #331
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    Agreed. You have to look at the total geometry picture.

    Reach is really important for the standing/attack postion mainly IMHO.

  32. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    Agreed. You have to look at the total geometry picture.

    Reach is really important for the standing/attack postion mainly IMHO.
    Right and it also has a lot to do with your position relative to the front axle. Slack head angles can support much more forward positions (longer reach). The Small Riot has a longer reach than the Large TB LTc and the Large Riot has the same reach as an XXL TB LTc.

  33. #333
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    The times they are a changin'

  34. #334
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    Name:  983255-2015-canfield-brothers-riot-29er-fs-983167d1429798703t-2015-canfield-brothers-riot-29er-f.jpg
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    I'd like to "reach" out and ride one. ETT on the Riot translates to Excuse To Thrash.

  35. #335
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    This is too awesome. I've been looking for a replacement to my Covert 29 for a while now. This is it.

    I'm 6' 4" tall, currently riding an XL Covert 29 - geometry. Which size Riot do I go for, XL? Seems like that might give me a bit more flat-out high-speed stability. Reach/ETT on the Riot is 476/631, the Covert is 434/614.....but I'm running a 70mm stem on the Covert.

    Also, how's this going to work out with a 150mm Fox 36?

    No real reason to replace the Covert other than it's three years old and I want something shiny and new

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyTee View Post

    Also, how's this going to work out with a 150mm Fox 36?
    I'm pretty sure I read that you can only use a Lefty or Lauf fork on the Riot.

  37. #337
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    Sweet. Can I also replace the shock with a solid steel bar, for that proper hardtail experience?

    I meant fork length affecting head angle/bb height, but hey ho, it'll be good

  38. #338
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    Don't need a steel bar, just get the EPO😁

  39. #339
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    If I buy a 29er this summer it'll be the Riot!
    Not really doing much Ridin' or Diggin'

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyTee View Post
    Sweet. Can I also replace the shock with a solid steel bar, for that proper hardtail experience?

    I meant fork length affecting head angle/bb height, but hey ho, it'll be good
    It would be better to replace the shock with one of those little Lauf carbon fiber strips to match front and rear suspension feel. Using a steel bar would just be ridiculous!

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickyTee View Post
    Sweet. Can I also replace the shock with a solid steel bar, for that proper hardtail experience?
    C'mon man, think outside the box! A carbon tube would do the same thing and save you a CRAP-TON of weight! /sarcasm

  42. #342
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    Man this made my decision tougher! I really like the way the numbers came out on this thing! My only reservation would be how well it could pedal. The way I will set it up it will probably be around a 30lb+ bike and the climbing around here is long, steep, and technical. I'm wondering if I'd be better off with the lighter, shorter travel Evil.

    It's kind of expensive for an aluminum trail bike but I guess it does come with a pricey shock.

  43. #343
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    So it's kind of similar to an Enduro 29 but with a couple of very major differences in the geo: The E29 has 1cm more of ETT while the Riot has that 1cm in the reach. The E29 has 1.5cm more chainstay.

    What does this mean for fit and handling?

  44. #344
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    Probably could be explained due to the Riot having a steeper seat angle.

  45. #345
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    SUPER!!
    But i'm glad i'm not a 29'' wheel guy so i don't get any ideas.

  46. #346
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    First Look: 2015 Canfield Brothers Riot - Features - Vital MTB

    The geo with 16.3 chainstays and 1x setup looks good. It also looks like a great wheelie machine and AM/bike park ripper!

    140mm of rear travel on a 29er for trails around my house maybe overkill. If they made one with 120mm of rear travel, I would put my pre-order in right away.

  47. #347
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    ^^^
    Love the Riot but I think there is definitely room for another frame in the line-up. Same geo as the riot, 120mm rear, 130/140ish front, maybe move the seat tube back a degree if possible, and carbon!

  48. #348
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    I was honestly kinda hoping for a 120-130mm frame too, but from what I am hearing about the canfield suspension design is that its pretty efficient.

    Is everyone in the 6' boat going large? The 20" seat tube on the large is making me think about the medium...

  49. #349
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    I haven't closely perused the specs/geo yet, but it looks awesome and I'm a fan of the Bros. That said, price seems a fair steep for an aluminum frame. Not a deal-breaker but a thought.

    I understand the push toward using a specific shock and I respect that. However, I would personally be much more interested in using a Monarch Plus Debonair on this frame based on my experiences with Cane Creek shocks and the relative inaccessibility of rebuilders.

    Thoughts?

  50. #350
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    Lenz Behemoth 5" travel and 16.7 chainstays, if that's more up your alley.

  51. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by confused View Post
    ^^^
    Love the Riot but I think there is definitely room for another frame in the line-up. Same geo as the riot, 120mm rear, 130/140ish front, maybe move the seat tube back a degree if possible, and carbon!
    Sounds like you want an Evil The Following.

  52. #352
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    Evil following is definitely a cool bike but i think Canfield could best it with the Riot geo and carbon!

  53. #353
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    Are they talking about doing carbon? Because I would order that right now!

  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    I haven't closely perused the specs/geo yet, but it looks awesome and I'm a fan of the Bros. That said, price seems a fair steep for an aluminum frame. Not a deal-breaker but a thought.

    I understand the push toward using a specific shock and I respect that. However, I would personally be much more interested in using a Monarch Plus Debonair on this frame based on my experiences with Cane Creek shocks and the relative inaccessibility of rebuilders.

    Thoughts?
    Think I read frame w/o shock is an option

    Anyone seen a photo of the large raw?
    ...

  55. #355
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    This bike is perfect for me in every way. Checks every box, with no compromises.

    As for the "I wish it was a 120mm bike instead of 140mm". While I sort of understand the logic as I used to be of this opinion, I have since ridden some bigger bikes that pedal insanely well. Extra 20mm suspension comes at ZERO penalty if it is well controlled. And CF is famous for their suspension design. Why not take the extra 20mm if there's no cost to it????? Baffles the mind.

    This will be my next bike. Just a matter of when. Should complement my Nimble 9 quite nicely.... I honestly can't think of a single thing I would change about this bike. BB might be a tick high, but I am assuming it'll sit lower in its travel than a lot of bikes and drop that BB down to perfect.

    What an awesome job Canfield. Thanks for making kick ass bikes.

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointerDixie214 View Post
    This bike is perfect for me in every way. Checks every box, with no compromises.

    As for the "I wish it was a 120mm bike instead of 140mm". While I sort of understand the logic as I used to be of this opinion, I have since ridden some bigger bikes that pedal insanely well. Extra 20mm suspension comes at ZERO penalty if it is well controlled. And CF is famous for their suspension design. Why not take the extra 20mm if there's no cost to it????? Baffles the mind.

    This will be my next bike. Just a matter of when. Should complement my Nimble 9 quite nicely.... I honestly can't think of a single thing I would change about this bike. BB might be a tick high, but I am assuming it'll sit lower in its travel than a lot of bikes and drop that BB down to perfect.

    What an awesome job Canfield. Thanks for making kick ass bikes.
    Thanks man! We are stoked on all the feedback. And in regards to a 120mm version, your response is spot on. We have always been a fans of giving more travel without the drawbacks, remember the One?

  57. #357
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    I'm 5'9" and going off of top tube length, I'd go with the medium but there is no way I could fit a dropper post with an 18" seat tube and the reach seems super long for me. The reach and seat tube length on the small look great but the top tube seems a little short for me. Any thoughts from Canfield?
    Last edited by OldHouseMan; 04-24-2015 at 02:27 PM.
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  58. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    Thanks man! We are stoked on all the feedback. And in regards to a 120mm version, your response is spot on. We have always been a fans of giving more travel without the drawbacks, remember the One?
    Will there eventually be a carbon version?

  59. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillingtonVT View Post
    We have always been a fans of giving more travel without the drawbacks, remember the One?
    I tell people this all the time. The One feels like it has 140-150mm travel, until I do something stupid and it doesn't kill me. Sure it's overkill for 90% of what I ride it, but then it's just-enough-kill the other 10% when everyone else has to pus out.

    You know what sucks? Feeling like your bike is holding you back. That's why I ride my One 99% of the time, that's why I'm getting a Riot.

    In that same vein, I'd love to hear thoughts on a 36 with more than 140 travel on the Riot.

  60. #360
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    The bros build one nicely spec'd bike but it is amazing that it can look so great too! I'd buy them just for looks and the specs are icing on the cake.. Or visa versa

  61. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    I tell people this all the time. The One feels like it has 140-150mm travel, until I do something stupid and it doesn't kill me. Sure it's overkill for 90% of what I ride it, but then it's just-enough-kill the other 10% when everyone else has to pus out.

    You know what sucks? Feeling like your bike is holding you back. That's why I ride my One 99% of the time, that's why I'm getting a Riot.

    In that same vein, I'd love to hear thoughts on a 36 with more than 140 travel on the Riot.
    In same boat since my 160mm 36 Talas will be going on it.
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  62. #362
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    So in short, why would you go with a DB Air vs a DB InLine? I know the DB Air are predominantly on bigger bikes, but would there be an advantage over the InLine for a 140mm bike?
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  63. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    So in short, why would you go with a DB Air vs a DB InLine? I know the DB Air are predominantly on bigger bikes, but would there be an advantage over the InLine for a 140mm bike?
    Wow... I was just about to post the exact same question. Great minds and all...

    Seems like the DB Inline is just as adjustable. I would guess the DBa has more oil volume - although I am not sure exactly what that buys you.

    How about maintenance? I see some complaints about the service interval of the DBi and having to send it back to CC for service. Is the DBa better in this regard?

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    In same boat since my 160mm 36 Talas will be going on it.
    Has a 160mm been given the official green light?

    Just curious because I'd be running one, sans external cup.

  65. #365
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    I'm going to run a DBair simply because I already have one.

    I'm also curious what the consensus is on a coil shock.

  66. #366
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    Potentially a noob question, but would the cane creek dbacs coming with the riot have a special cane creek tune (I thought all of the dbacs shocks were standard due to the range of adjustment available but I did see it mentioned in the Santa Cruz thread that a special Bronson tune was created by cane creek following feedback).

    The reason I ask is I have a spare dbacs from my banshee prime staring me in the face. If I can use this shock (it's 200/57 so I know it's the right length) then there isn't really a reason not to order a riot frame minus shock.

  67. #367
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    This bike and the CFBs suck! Why? Cause now I'm being pushed to make very bad financial decisions. Oh well, Raw or Black?

  68. #368
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    Only "special" CC DB I've heard of is the Ripley with reduced stroke and Specialized with the custom yoke.

    I'm gonna use my DBair from my old Banshee Prime as well.

    No point paying extra for what I already have.

  69. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by chowdapilot View Post
    This bike and the CFBs suck! Why? Cause now I'm being pushed to make very bad financial decisions. Oh well, Raw or Black?
    I went Raw. Always loved the non-clear coated aluminum frames. Industrial badass tool of trail destruction. Plus no need to worry about scratches

  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin+M View Post
    ...curious what the consensus is on a coil shock.
    I got a thumbs up from Vin on a coil. But he followed up w/ a question, "why?"

    For me, I'm sitting on a X-Fusion HLR Coil. But the thinking is a (coil) shock for park days along w/ a wheel change, and a CCDBi for trail days w/ a lighter set of wheels.

  71. #371
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    Because coils are FUN!

  72. #372
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    IMO a correctly tuned/set up coil shock will always out perform an air in all facets. It might be a little more tricky to set up but it's far superior.

    Then again I've been pleasantly surprised with how my Pike has performed, though on the other hand it ain't an Avy tuned coil sprung fork....

  73. #373
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    Speaking of Avalanche, I just got my 2015 Fox 36 back from Craig today






  74. #374
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    Ah, that man knows how to tune stuff.

    Is it you first Avy product?

  75. #375
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    Yep. I've been wanting to try for years, finally took the leap.

    Currently, my Evil Following is Avy'd front and rear.

    2015 Canfield Brothers Riot 29er FS-uploadfromtaptalk1429937304632.jpg2015 Canfield Brothers Riot 29er FS-uploadfromtaptalk1429937317390.jpg

    I'm sure the fork will find its way to the Riot come August.

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    IMO a correctly tuned/set up coil shock will always out perform an air in all facets. It might be a little more tricky to set up but it's far superior.

    Then again I've been pleasantly surprised with how my Pike has performed, though on the other hand it ain't an Avy tuned coil sprung fork....
    This. Push has hinted that they will be coming out with a coil fork to compliment the 11-6 shock.

    Interested to hear how that Avy set up feels.

  77. #377
    tacos al carbon
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    What does the curve look like

    How linear is the Riot linkage?
    ...

  78. #378
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    If it's anything like the Balance, it's fairly linear with a ramp up at the end.

  79. #379
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    RiotLargeRawPorn?
    ...

  80. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Two suspension related questions.

    -Would a coil shock work with the Balance Formula characteristics?

    -Is there green light to run a 160mm fork without an external cup?
    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Has a 160mm been given the official green light?

    Just curious because I'd be running one, sans external cup.
    In same boat since my 160mm 36 Talas will be going on it.
    Would be weird for a frame that takes a CCDB out-back for to take a big fork like a 140mm+ up-front... so count me in for interest in pairing a 150mm/160mm fork with the Riot.

  81. #381
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    I was close to pulling the trigger on a Following, but have some concerns about the low bb and mud issues with all those additional links. This looks better on paper but my main concern would be the final handlebar height. I'm running a 120mm pike on a niner ros9 which has external headset bearings and that is plenty high enough for me (110mm HT length plus another ~20mm for the upper and lower bearings). I only ran a 120mm pike on my Ibis Ripley due to the bars being too high at 140mm (I'm running flat bars).

    So are there option to run a slimmer bearings or internal bearings on these frames? I'd love to have 140mm+ on the front and not feel like I'm riding a harly.

  82. #382
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    Compare the stack height on all those, I think the Riot is the lowest, therefore it would have the lowest bar height even with the 140mm fork.

  83. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyJ View Post
    Would be weird for a frame that takes a CCDB out-back for to take a big fork like a 140mm+ up-front... so count me in for interest in pairing a 150mm/160mm fork with the Riot.
    Well mine is a Talas, so I'm more or less thinking 160 on park days, and 140 on normal riding days.
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  84. #384
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    Wow. Bike looks phenomenal. I was planning on replacing my spider comp with a Following, but this will definitely compete with the following for my next purchase. I too was bummed with the frame not being offered in carbon, but I think for the type of riding intended for this bike, aluminum makes more sense. I have already spent a decent amount $$ on carbon repairs for my Intense Spider Comp.
    "And I shout that your all fakes and you should have seen the look on your face"

  85. #385
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    Can anyone speculate as to how a bike like this would ride compared to the following?

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanleyJ View Post
    Would be weird for a frame that takes a CCDB out-back for to take a big fork like a 140mm+ up-front... so count me in for interest in pairing a 150mm/160mm fork with the Riot.
    I'd imagine that a 150mm and zero stack would be fine. The HA would basically remain the same. On the other hand 160mm/zero stack would = ~ 66d HA, that's the real question mark for me.

    Hopefully in the new week we'll get a conformation. No doubt the fellas at Canfield HQ a swamped.

    Anyone know the a2c measurements for all of the potential fork options?

  87. #387
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    Judging from the Balance compared to the Following, the Evil will have higher anti-squat. Whether or not that's a good thing is a personal preference. Both being slack and having short stays, Canfield being shorter on the stays of course. The Following also has a lower BB, also a preference thing.

    I currently own the Following and I will say it is the best overall bike I've owned. I've also pre-ordered the Riot, mainly because I love the Canfield brand and how this bike breaks a few boundaries previously thought to be unbreakable, 414mm chainstays and 140mm of travel. The Canfield Balance intrigued me, but I'm a 29er diehard so I couldn't resist once I saw the Riot announced back in December.

    I'll be glad to compare them both once my Riot shows up

  88. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    I'd imagine that a 150mm and zero stack would be fine. The HA would basically remain the same. On the other hand 160mm/zero stack would = ~ 66d HA, that's the real question mark for me.

    Hopefully in the new week we'll get a conformation. No doubt the fellas at Canfield HQ a swamped.

    Anyone know the a2c measurements for all of the potential fork options?
    The Fox 36 @140mm should be 547.1mm, that's what I'll be running on mine.

  89. #389
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    Yeah @ 160 it is tall up front (for climbing) and with short stays.

    I wonder what's the largest and smallest ring that will fit up front/ clear that cs
    ...

  90. #390
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    OK, i think i'm going to order. I've a Yelli and a One, this may complement or kill both... we'll see.

    Is the upper link made of two piece or is it a one piece?

  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Yeah @ 160 it is tall up front (for climbing) and with short stays.
    I don't think that a 160mm/zero stack combo would be tall enough to create a problem. The steep effective SA would help with any wondering that may arise during seated climbing.

  92. #392
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    how can a zero stack headset work? zero stack on a 49mm headtube means you need a straight 1"1/8 fork steerer...

  93. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    how can a zero stack headset work? zero stack on a 49mm headtube means you need a straight 1"1/8 fork steerer...
    Just had a quick search. There seems to be options...

  94. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by savo View Post
    how can a zero stack headset work? zero stack on a 49mm headtube means you need a straight 1"1/8 fork steerer...
    Even though it's called zero stack, it still has a small stack height. Look a Cane Creek zero stack lowers, still has a 4mm height, but I assume since it's so small, they call it zero.
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  95. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    I got a thumbs up from Vin on a coil. But he followed up w/ a question, "why?"

    For me, I'm sitting on a X-Fusion HLR Coil. But the thinking is a (coil) shock for park days along w/ a wheel change, and a CCDBi for trail days w/ a lighter set of wheels.
    interesting. suspension design has really matured since the days when coil shocks outperformed air shocks by a large margin. and linkages have been tweaked to optimize the spring curve for every part of rear wheel travel, ie the better designs try to feel supple off the top, then linear and supportive thru most of travel range, then ramp up at end to feel "bottomless". now it seems that most bikes are designed to perform best not only for a type of shock (air vs coil), but usually for a specific shock that has been specially tuned by the shock maker for that frame.

    spring rates for air shocks are progressive--they typically increase their spring rate quite a bit at the end stroke as they're being fully compressed. while spring rates for coil shocks are linear--they maintain the same spring rate throughout the stroke.

    so if the suspension has been designed and optimized for a progressive air spring, and you switch to a linear coil, how do you tune your coil? it seems like if you pick the coil's rate to be supple in the beginning of travel, then you're likely to blow through your travel and bottom out more harshly at the end stroke. and if you pick a coil with a heavier rate to prevent blowing thru your travel and bottoming out harshly, you'll probably lose some small bump plushness at the beginning of travel.

    i always dug the feel of coil shocks and forks, so just curious about swapping from air to coil if the bike has been designed for an air shock.

  96. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    I don't think that a 160mm/zero stack combo would be tall enough to create a problem. The steep effective SA would help with any wondering that may arise during seated climbing.
    I still want to know what's the biggest ring to clear the chain stay.. and the smallest ring that fits before the chain hits the stay.

    Have a zero stack for 1.5", I'll take a look at what the name is.. think it's an fsa
    ...

  97. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by slo_rider View Post
    so if the suspension has been designed and optimized for a progressive air spring, and you switch to a linear coil, how do you tune your coil?.
    If you have a shock that has these, resi IFP depth and pressure can ramp your end of stroke, no?

  98. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Just had a quick search. There seems to be options...
    Options for a straight 1"1/8 steerer 160mm 29er fork?

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Even though it's called zero stack, it still has a small stack height. Look a Cane Creek zero stack lowers, still has a 4mm height, but I assume since it's so small, they call it zero.
    yes I know, but still no way a zero stack (or a 4mm stack) 49mm bottom cup can take a tapered steerer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Have a zero stack for 1.5", I'll take a look at what the name is.. think it's an fsa
    no way. not a ZS49, it's a ZS56 for sure.


    [EDIT] I was wrong... read on

  99. #399
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    It's zero stack, promise

    Caged bearings, just needs proactive cleaning if you live in mud land
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  100. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    If you have a shock that has these, resi IFP depth and pressure can ramp your end of stroke, no?
    i dunno and will have to read up on it.

    you kids and your fancy internal floating pistons... get off my damn lawn!



    ok. looked it up, and found a good thread here: Piggyback shocks - IFP depth affect on performance????

    you're right Pau11y, see quote from Nick_M2R below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick_M2R View Post
    Hi Andy
    Check in my guide at the bottom, you will find a table with all the IFP depths for different stroke shocks

    Deeper IFP depth gives a more linear stroke
    Shallower IFP depth gives a more progressive stroke
    Last edited by slo_rider; 04-27-2015 at 02:38 PM. Reason: additional info added

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