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Thread: WTF on SJT?

  1. #1
    Jus' Ridin' Along
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    WTF on SJT?

    Yesterday, 4/7, I met up with some friends for a San Juan Trail ride. Quite a showing at the lower t.h. with the likes of Aqua and various SD crew, SL Keith, Switchback types, and my buds from LA and OC. Looked like a great day: foggy, cool, with a slight drizzle to keep the dust down and add a little tack to the tread.
    Three of us proceeded up about 5-7 minutes after the big crowd with me in the lead. First group I encountered were coming down a straightaway near the top of the first switchbacks. Pretty narrow section with ruts, and 1st guy just keeps coming as I look directly at him, wondering of he'll yield to the climber. Nope, not a chance. 2nd guy makes attempt to move over but not stop, I get his handle bar in the knuckle. He makes comment, I return favor with "try giving uphills right of way". No harm, no foul; Ride on through the fog...
    Encounter 3 more down hill groups. Everybody makes efforts to stop, or slow considerably and exchange "hi's". Cool.

    Then, at mile five, I'm coming out of a brush tunnel making a right curve, when I hear noise and see a fully armored full faced monster bike coming at me full speed. He grabs a handful of brake but too little too late. OTB's directly into me along with bike, his bars and body doing a complete frontal plant on me. His 2 buds and budette come up fast from behind, in time for the usual exchange of pleasantries. Outside of the typical references to cranial rectal inversion and defecation, one comment made by either the purp or bud was "hey, it was 50/50 (meaning fault), so just let it go".
    Ummm... no.
    It wasn't 50/50 at all. First, it is a public trail, and the unsafe operation of a bike on said trail endangers the rest of the public. Second, it was a foggy day, making it even more important to keep the speed down and eyes open. Last, and certainly not least, I'm laid up today with a swollen right hand, jacked back, and f'd up carbon handle bar. Just cause some fetid rectum felt entitled to race his DH bike without any concern for anyone else who might be on the trail.
    Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm all for having fun on the DH. But it doesn't take more than a couple of brain cells to know that full speed into a blind curve can cause major problems, and when visibility is an issue, or on a weekend when the lower lot is so full people are jockeying for parking spots, maybe scrubbing off some overall velocity is prudent.
    So, just a quick thanks to the brainless knuckledragger for making the rest of my ride, and my Sunday, so enjoyable. Happy Easter.

    And just a little OT... WTF with all the trash out there? Spotted no less that 3 tubes, 1 tire, and countless food wrappers and tabs all on the lower trail. Not to mention that Cocktail Rock smelled like a urinal from all of the mutts marking their spot. What does it take to walk 20 feet away from the public rest area to piss?
    I know, stupid question.
    If ya gotta good tool, build a shed over it

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  2. #2
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    Do you have a magnet built into your bike? First the guy in Aliso and now this. Maybe you need a brighter bike???
    You wouldn't be in so much pain if you didn't ride like a dork!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPATCRASH
    Do you have a magnet built into your bike? First the guy in Aliso and now this. Maybe you need a brighter bike???
    Funny.
    I guess it's the ASSHAT magnet....
    Now you know why I tend to stick to Sprockethead trails.

    BTW, Pat, I have a 3 liter full of 10th... jus' waitin' fer Fruita
    And a Brown Sugga in the fridge just waitin fer me to get off my arse.
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  4. #4
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    Hey Bob- From the trash, to the urine smell to the bonehead who slammed into you- All I can say is I agree with you!!! Trust me, you are not the first person it has happened to. There have even been a few posts regarding this subject in the past. There is one unnamed PRO (who rides the trail quite often) who seems to think the trail is his personal one way street! F*#* him!!! That #S$%& won't slow down if 20 riders are blocking the trail.

    As a guy who usually rides San Juan from top to bottom- let me say 99% of the people are not like that. I would also like to suggest the use of a BELL (zipped to you seat rail) for any DH rider on SJ (or any other trail) where contact with a hiker or biker going uphill is possible. Hope you heal up soon.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL
    Funny.
    I guess it's the ASSHAT magnet....
    Now you know why I tend to stick to Sprockethead trails.

    BTW, Pat, I have a 3 liter full of 10th... jus' waitin' fer Fruita
    And a Brown Sugga in the fridge just waitin fer me to get off my arse.
    I sure hope I can make Fruita but if not we can drink it before you go. Think how much weight it will save you in the car on the way out there.
    You wouldn't be in so much pain if you didn't ride like a dork!

  6. #6
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    BobL, that sux! Sorry to hear this.

    What the hell is wrong with theses DH'ers. Takes just a second to stop and let the guy climbing pass. The guy climing has right of way! Peroid. None of that 50/50 stuff.

    And trash, no excuse.

    It's sad, it takes such little effort to pick up your OWN TRASH and throw it out in a garbage can at the bottom. Just a second or two to let a climber by. But no. More and more people don't give a $H!T. Truely sad.

    Well I guess I'll see for myself next time I'm up at SJT.

    Heal up quick BobL

  7. #7
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    It's a blown out trail. What do you expect? There's a ton of traffic so there's bound to be encounters on the trail and with that many people there's definetely going to be a few boneheads around.

    Not pointing fingers, but knowing that there are DH guys on the trail (a lot of which aren't the best at emergency stops) why didn't you try to jump out of the way when you heard a noise around a blind corner? Even if it's someone poking down on a hardtail, I give them plenty of room when I'm heading up just so they have some more room for error if they sketchy when they see another user. I know descenders are supposd to yield to ascenders, but let them have their fun.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    It's a blown out trail. What do you expect? There's a ton of traffic so there's bound to be encounters on the trail and with that many people there's definetely going to be a few boneheads around.

    Not pointing fingers, but knowing that there are DH guys on the trail (a lot of which aren't the best at emergency stops) why didn't you try to jump out of the way when you heard a noise around a blind corner? Even if it's someone poking down on a hardtail, I give them plenty of room when I'm heading up just so they have some more room for error if they sketchy when they see another user. I know descenders are supposd to yield to ascenders, but let them have their fun.
    Man, don't go there. It's that kind of thinking that keeps the trails in SB, and several other areas, in constant jeopardy. It's called education and reinforcement of trail rules/etiquette. BobL didn't deserve to be laid out. It sounds like you agree with the guy's 50/50 comment.

    Whatever happened to letting the climbers have their fun? I get as much gratification from finishing a heinous climb as I do railing a descent. The important difference is I probably won't injure anyone from flying up the trail so fast I can't stop.
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  9. #9
    mechmann_mtb
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    Nothing new.

    I actually get mildly excited now when I read crap like this. I can feel the property value on my parcel in Utah going up!!!

    SJT is a great trail. Unfortunately not everyone plays by the rules (duh) and even those that do play by the rules occasionally get a bit out of hand (myself included, but i would shoot myself in the face with a 12 guage if i was ever rude to someone after I made a mistake)

    on the bright side we had a great weekend in Idyllwild with a big STR group. fun times!!!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upchuck
    Man, don't go there. It's that kind of thinking that keeps the trails in SB, and several other areas, in constant jeopardy. It's called education and reinforcement of trail rules/etiquette. BobL didn't deserve to be laid out. It sounds like you agree with the guy's 50/50 comment.

    Whatever happened to letting the climbers have their fun? I get as much gratification from finishing a heinous climb as I do railing a descent. The important difference is I probably won't injure anyone from flying up the trail so fast I can't stop.
    Enforcing trail ettiquette by putting yourself in danger of a bonehead going at high speeds? Sounds brilliant. If you're all for putting yourself in harms way to enforce yielding (off-road no less), go right ahead. We have to yield to uphillers and hikers in SB here because of the touchy situation, but people around here (myself included) know to get the hell out of the way because there is always a change those stoppers may not do their thing in time or the rider could get into an "oh crap" situation by seeing someone squatting in the only useable riding line on a trail. I'm not saying the descender was in the right at all. In fact, far from it. But not protecting yourself is kinda moronic fault or no fault.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    Even if it's someone poking down on a hardtail, I give them plenty of room when I'm heading up just so they have some more room for error if they sketchy when they see another user.
    I ride DH more than anything else, and the DH crowd I run with always yields to those who have right of way. Better to slow down and say hi rather than take a chance of a collision and ruin things for everybody. I also move over when I'm climbing uphill on my smaller bike; too many morons out there (on both big and small bikes) who don't care about who's in their way when they come down. Sorry to hear about that BobL.

  12. #12
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    bob L

    I was one of the SD riders. saw riders going down and took the hard line up more than once. they were probably shocked . im sure my luck will run out one day. for now im my worst enemy heel up to ride .

  13. #13
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    Once again, you live up to your name...

    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    Enforcing trail ettiquette by putting yourself in danger of a bonehead going at high speeds? Sounds brilliant. If you're all for putting yourself in harms way to enforce yielding (off-road no less), go right ahead. We have to yield to uphillers and hikers in SB here because of the touchy situation, but people around here (myself included) know to get the hell out of the way because there is always a change those stoppers may not do their thing in time or the rider could get into an "oh crap" situation by seeing someone squatting in the only useable riding line on a trail. I'm not saying the descender was in the right at all. In fact, far from it. But not protecting yourself is kinda moronic fault or no fault.
    ...by assuming you knew the situation.
    FYI, the time span between hearing the sound and seeing asshat grabing binders whilst careening into me was less than a second. And the distance was about 5 feet.

    As far as protecting myself, after sitting around all day, I decided to run some Hoppes # 9 through my old 03-A3. Now I'm thinking that bayonet clip might look good on my stem
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  14. #14
    mistereckz
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    Sad to hear these stories over and over again. 99% of my riding is gravity/DH oriented and it just sucks that I/we have to get lumped in with idiots like this guy! My personal rules:
    1) Always use a bell
    2) No bombing multi use trails
    3) If I can't get to a DH trail, the weekend is for trail riding or wrenching...just too many people to worry about

    That being said, stuff happens. I have had incidents that I am not proud of. However, if you are going so fast that you hit somebody, man, you need to sit the next couple of plays out, bud! What if it was a kid instead of another rider?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    We have to yield to uphillers and hikers in SB here because of the touchy situation...
    Talk about circular reasoning. You don't have to yield to uphillers and hikers because of a touchy situation. It's because it's the right thing to do. The "touchy situation" developed because there's a whole conga line of morons coming down the mountain who believe the following quote I read somewhere:
    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    I know descenders are supposd to yield to ascenders, but let them have their fun.
    Please, don't try to rationalize why this incident is partly BobL's fault. It only makes you look like a DH idiot.
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  16. #16
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    Bobble:

    Sorry to hear that your ride vibe was less than ideal. I've come to expect that kind of scenario while climbing SJT. What blows my mind... is that I'll make a point of telling descending rider that there are more climbers coming up.......and then later, hear tales of my mates still almost being taken out.

    And, Cocktail Rock? WHOA!!! That area is smelling Really, REALLY foul!
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  17. #17
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    Uphillers have the right of way. Cyclists, hikers, or equestrians don't jump out of the way for out of control cyclists. If you run into someone going downhill, you're out of control. If this is not to your liking, go buy a ranch and build your own trails and ride anyway you like.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rippling over canyons
    Uphillers have the right of way. Cyclists, hikers, or equestrians don't jump out of the way for out of control cyclists. If you run into someone going downhill, you're out of control. If this is not to your liking, go buy a ranch and build your own trails and ride anyway you like.
    So being aware of your surroundings, protecting yourself, and expecting the unexpected is too much to ask of people wandering around out in the wilderness hm? In no way is a downhiller running into an uphiller justified, but being poorly prepared for being out in the woods is flat out stupid. This isn't a residential intersection. There are no patrol cars or metermen. There are no ambulances a 2 minute drive away. A fair amount of your protection, if not all, is up to you. If you can't muster that much up, the wilderness probably isn't the place for you.

    Once again, not saying the original poster is at fault in any way. For all I know, he could have had zero time to react, or had 10 minutes with visual contact first, but from the sounds of it he had the first one. I'm just throwing this out there for arguments sake since I see people way WAY out on the trails who are extremely poorly prepared for situations that would almost definetely present themselves at some point. (example: crippled elderly ladies being walked by two other people at least 2 miles up Tunnel trail). I do not condone running down hikers and all that, and I always stop for them on descents unless I see them from a good distance waving me on through encouragingly (is that a word?). Apparently some of you don't see the sarcasm in the idiot title, but use it as you will.
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  19. #19
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    That's a pretty weak backstroke you got there.
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  20. #20
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    OK, Idiot, one more time...

    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    So being aware of your surroundings, protecting yourself, and expecting the unexpected is too much to ask of people wandering around out in the wilderness hm? In no way is a downhiller running into an uphiller justified, but being poorly prepared for being out in the woods is flat out stupid. This isn't a residential intersection. There are no patrol cars or metermen. There are no ambulances a 2 minute drive away. A fair amount of your protection, if not all, is up to you. If you can't muster that much up, the wilderness probably isn't the place for you.

    Once again, not saying the original poster is at fault in any way. For all I know, he could have had zero time to react, or had 10 minutes with visual contact first, but from the sounds of it he had the first one. I'm just throwing this out there for arguments sake since I see people way WAY out on the trails who are extremely poorly prepared for situations that would almost definetely present themselves at some point. (example: crippled elderly ladies being walked by two other people at least 2 miles up Tunnel trail). I do not condone running down hikers and all that, and I always stop for them on descents unless I see them from a good distance waving me on through encouragingly (is that a word?). Apparently some of you don't see the sarcasm in the idiot title, but use it as you will.
    ... 'cause you I guess you missed it in my last reply.

    Try this: walk into your bathroom at night without turning the light on. Stand in front of the mirror. Turn the light on. See the monkey?
    That's how much time and about as much distance I had before asshat hit me.

    But just to further clarify, I was in a tree tunnel and making a blind right curve, doing maybe 3-4 mph. He had at least 50 yards of straightway to look ahead, see said blind curve and scrub speed.

    Now I'm having to argue with another asshat that tries to assume he knew what the sitch was (without even being there?) and implies that I was ill prepared for the situation.
    How would you, mister mental giant, prepare for that ride? Walk your bike up the trail whilst peeking around every corner? Or just be another shuttlefuc dimwit and damn everybody else?
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL
    Now I'm having to argue with another asshat that tries to assume he knew what the sitch was (without even being there?) and implies that I was ill prepared for the situation.
    I wasn't implying anything. I'm just saying that's a common situation, and many people find themselves guilty of being ill-prepared without realizing it. It was a generalization and nothing towards you. You also don't have to "argue" with anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL
    How would you, mister mental giant, prepare for that ride? Walk your bike up the trail whilst peeking around every corner? Or just be another shuttlefuc dimwit and damn everybody else?
    I personally would prepare for that ride by avoiding a blown out trail, or not riding up a trail that someone else whose control I don't have faith in is barreling down at who knows how fast, or at least go at non-peak hours (no idea what time you were riding here, don't take it as assumption). When I'm shuttling the trails around here and feel like doing a non-stop run or just getting nutty in general, I do it at 6am (or 7ish these days with the time change) when it's just about guaranteed to be empty and still wear a bell. I guess that's when I'm damning everyone else and cursing them to a life of suffering via being a weak and lazy un-yielding disrespectful shuttlejunkie like every other downhill rider on earth is...
    The absolute best and lesser known and least crowded runs are the ones that aren't on any map or have internet directions and you have to hike to, and I mean hike, cannot drive or granny gear or even simply walk to - this is half their beauty.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    I wasn't implying anything. I'm just saying that's a common situation, and many people find themselves guilty of being ill-prepared without realizing it. It was a generalization and nothing towards you.
    Um, wrong. Re-read your previous posts. Implying is all you have been doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    I personally would prepare for that ride by avoiding a blown out trail, or not riding up a trail that someone else whose control I don't have faith in is barreling down at who knows how fast, or at least go at non-peak hours (no idea what time you were riding here, don't take it as assumption).
    Well let's see, that pretty much narrows down the "safe" climbing trails, doesn't it? Why should the rest of the riders cow tow to the shuttle monkeys just so they can get their speed fix? Hey, here's an idea: Enter a DH race so you don't have to worry about breaking the laws or some innocent person's (insert body part).
    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    The absolute best and lesser known and least crowded runs are the ones that aren't on any map or have internet directions and you have to hike to, and I mean hike, cannot drive or granny gear or even simply walk to - this is half their beauty.
    Here, lemme help you out with this one. You mean illegal or poached trails. You really are a piece of work.
    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    When I'm shuttling the trails around here and feel like doing a non-stop run or just getting nutty in general, I do it at 6am (or 7ish these days with the time change) when it's just about guaranteed to be empty and still wear a bell.
    So let me get this straight,
    • we should ride illegal trails
    • we should ride at non-peak hours to avoid wreckless morons
    • we should also keep our eyes open for you, since you ride at non-peak hours
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    Just deal with it Billy BoB .Doesn't take more than a couple of brain cells to move out of the way???Doesn't take more than a couple of brain cells to hear a person coming from a bilind corner .Billy Bob- " I get his handle bar in the knuckle" what comes around goes around ... and the end result poor Billy Bob="I'm laid up today with a swollen right hand, jacked back, and f'd up carbon handle bar".

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcfury
    Just deal with it Billy BoB .Doesn't take more than a couple of brain cells to move out of the way???Doesn't take more than a couple of brain cells to hear a person coming from a bilind corner .Billy Bob- " I get his handle bar in the knuckle" what comes around goes around ... and the end result poor Billy Bob="I'm laid up today with a swollen right hand, jacked back, and f'd up carbon handle bar".
    Obviously it didn't take more than a couple of brain cells to write your response...
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  25. #25
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    Too bad more people can't exercise a little common sense, and I mean that on both ends.

    I too enjoy bombing down a nice singletrack, but I'm not going to come ripping around a blind turn hoping someone coming the other way jumps out of my way. I pick up the pace where I can see, slow it down where I can't. Through the years I've seen riders, hikers and a couple horseback riders get hit by guys charging down a popular, multiuse trail. I don't want no part of that.

    At the same time, I've been *****ed out by people for failing to come to a complete stop to let them pass while they are climbing up a trail. I'm talking about areas plenty wide for two bikes to pass, with a wide line to ride, not some technical spot with only one good line. I'll slow down to a crawl and we will pass without even coming close to touching but they have it in their head that the downhill rider needs to yield and anything less then coming to complete stop is not doing that. Again, exercise some common sense.

  26. #26
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    I agree with you 100%, motox155.
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  27. #27
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    keep riding

    Common sense isnt that common anymore. Just remember we are all out there trying to ride our bikes and have a little fun. Just watch out for each other and if a situation happens try to think it was unintential and go back to enjoying the ride. If your really injured that is another problem that two people will have to discuss then but a little knuckle thump is not that big of a deal. I am not pushing blame any way just try to keep in mind that we share these wonderful trails with others and keep your wits about you.
    Have fun and ride, ride, and ride some more.

  28. #28
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    I think I understand what DHidiot is trying to say.

    When climbing or descending SJT there should be expectations of oncoming riders at every blind turn. To mitigate potential injuries to either party, both parties should expect an oncoming rider and always be prepared to react. I believe it's having this expectation is why I have never had a problem with oncoming riders while climbing or descending SJT or anywhere else, and I've been riding for a long time.

    Not reacting - when there is time to react - because one has the right of way can be foolish. Sure, you can make a point, but at what expense? However, per the original poster, he had no time to react. I understand that because of the blind corner, he did not hear or see the ultra-stealth oncoming rider until a fraction of a second before impact.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    I think I understand what DHidiot is trying to say.

    When climbing or descending SJT there should be expectations of oncoming riders at every blind turn. To mitigate potential injuries to either party, both parties should expect an oncoming rider and always be prepared to react.

    Not reacting - when there is time to react - because one has the right of way can be foolish. Sure, you can make a point, but at what expense? However, per the original poster, he had no time to react. I understand that because of the blind corner, he did not hear or see the ultra-stealth oncoming rider until a fraction of a second before impact.
    Unfortunately some of the people riding downhill (let's not assume they're all shuttle monkeys!) don't know that they need to pay attention to others. San Juan isn't really a trail that has many places wide enough for two riders to pass while both stay pedaling. More often than not when I'm climbing a group of riders in full face helmets with full pads will come flying down and not one of them will yield the trail. That's when they all see me and there is plenty of time to yield. Just because I'm climbing doesn't mean I want to yield the trail going up AND down. And it isn't fair to those climbing when I'm descending for me to just be a jerk and think "Well, no one yielded to me, so I don't need to yield to anyone."

    I think a lot of the problem is that people go out with their buddies and either don't know the rules (yes they are rules, check the boards at the trailheads for yielding rules, they're all over the national forests) or don't care about them, so the information never gets passed on. Then you've got 8 guys raging down hill on a multi-use trail that have no idea that anyone is climbing up the other direction, or that they need to pull over and let the climber or hiker go by, unless otherwise waved on.

    I really like turning around and bombing down hill as well, but I'm typically doing it in the afternoon, when most of the people have climbed up. More often it seems like those shuttling are descending between 8-9 am, which is pretty PEAK time for those that are climbing. If they were descending at 3 pm they'd only run into other riders descending, for the most part.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Upchuck
    Bunch of random out of context misread/misspoken crap
    Wrong and way off on all counts. I'm not even going to dignify any of that with an answer.
    805

  31. #31
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    Hey Bob,

    I have seen you climbing SJT before, you climb like a maniac, skidding in the corners, passing everybody without warning, they should put uphill speed limits for guys like you...

    That poor downhill rider never had a chance, he never saw you coming... and I am sure that you braced yourself to make him go over the bars. How cruel...

    Shame on you

  32. #32
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    Brain cells?

    Quote Originally Posted by mcfury
    Just deal with it Billy BoB .Doesn't take more than a couple of brain cells to move out of the way???Doesn't take more than a couple of brain cells to hear a person coming from a bilind corner .Billy Bob- " I get his handle bar in the knuckle" what comes around goes around ... and the end result poor Billy Bob="I'm laid up today with a swollen right hand, jacked back, and f'd up carbon handle bar".
    As if you had any.
    If ya gotta good tool, build a shed over it

    "The most blatant lies are told just after a fishing trip, during a war, and just before an election"

  33. #33
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    Calm down!!

    Bobble:

    What are you thinking???!!!! Attempting to climb SJT on a weekend?? ?!!!!That's insane, ya DORK.


    Should you not be at a Sierra Club, bird watching outing instead?


    SHEEEESH.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    Bobble:

    What are you thinking???!!!! Attempting to climb SJT on a weekend?? ?!!!!That's insane, ya DORK.


    Should you not be at a Sierra Club, bird watching outing instead?


    SHEEEESH.
    now I CAN PUT A FACE ON BOB L GEEZ IF HE was'nt so old he probably could have been able to move out of the way. anybody else get poison oak that day

  35. #35
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    SJT=L.A. Freeways.

    Can't take your Porsche out to "breath" anymore.............

    Tough to find low to no impact trails anywhere in SoCal ESPECIALLY on a weekend.

  36. #36
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    The bad thing is

    we bikers (I mean all) may be more forgiving than some of the other trail users are, dont get me wrong all the hikers I met on SJ were cool, but if they have never ridden the trail the can not imagine how you could misjudge the speed, and one incident is one too much. I would hate to say bye bye to San Juan Bottom line is you have to stay in control of your bike. I encountered many skidding sliding riders coming down, one of them slid by me brushing me came to stop about 9 feet behind me and said there you go as she just gave me plenty space to pass. I love climbing SJ and many spots will not allow you to hear the rider coming and you won't see them untill about 6 feet away.
    http://www.caddesignwork.com/ where CAD Design and drafting happens.

  37. #37
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    another DHidiot moment brought to you by the fine Spastik kids House
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  38. #38
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    Solution to the traffic -- Ride during the night

  39. #39
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    The best solution: be considerate.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Guy
    The best solution: be considerate.
    Right On!!!

  41. #41
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    dh bikes ruined mtn biking
    I can't wait till they put condos here. Said no one ever.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar
    dh bikes ruined mtn biking
    Remember, guns don't kill people; people kill people. It's not the bike, it's the rider.
    Oh, I looked at your sig, and I understand you're probably a democraft so it's acceptible for people to blame everything else but themselves.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  43. #43
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    perfect analogy.

    DH bikes brought a new type of rider and attitude to the trails that was not there before. Yours is indicative.

    It is a lot easier and more likely for a murder to occur with a gun involved than without. It takes a lot more effort to club someone to death then to shoot them. It takes a lot more effort to climb to the top of a mtn to then go down. Generally the poor attitude jerk offs can't swing it.

    What does it matter what I think? SJT will be closed soon to mtn bikers like every other trail in close proximity. Then those of with respect get to suffer just like those with out any.

    I refuse to squish my complex and thought out beliefs into a 2 political party system with the ideological differences tantamount to coke or pepsi. I do find that most sheep ****ing high school drop outs are republican though.

    I should never read these forums they just depress me. At least in the Forums the ass holes seem to have the majority........................well Bush is president. Damn I am out numbered everywhere.
    I can't wait till they put condos here. Said no one ever.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar
    I should never read these forums they just depress me. At least in the Forums the ass holes seem to have the majority........................well Bush is president. Damn I am out numbered everywhere.
    I'll just keep this short. Having some faith in our society, there are more good people than @-holes. And so despite you generally not having a clue, you are correct - you are out numbered.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  45. #45
    ODB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    Oh, I looked at your sig, and I understand you're probably a democraft so it's acceptible for people to blame everything else but themselves.
    Tell me, does it strain your back hefting that massively broad brush?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODB
    Tell me, does it strain your back hefting that massively broad brush?
    It's actually a very wide paint roller. It's a little splotchy, so it doesn't cover everything very well. I does cover the general area along with some of the "other areas," though. It's just a generalization. Sorry.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  47. #47
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    Wanted to chip in here and I hope not to offend anyone.

    Biker to biker conflicts (aside from few trail-building / closure disputes ) just don’t seem to be a huge issue from what I’ve seen, and most riders will just ride by each other without incident. This incident sounds as if a simple “sorry bud” or something of the like would have been all that was needed.

    I think a lot of us have been on both ends of some close-calls (victims and causers). It’s real easy to get caught up in the moment when rolling downhill and having fun on your line, but a simple “sorry” can go a long way.

    I’m more concerned about the biker/hiker incidents on the crowded multi-use park trails on the weekends. These can lead to big image problems, especially if a hiker gets hurt.

    The ones that usually catch me off guard are the ones on the fire roads. I pretty much stay to the far right while riding fire roads, and have had a few really close-calls by riders bombing the inside lines on the corners. These can be a recipe for disaster on a crowded weekend trail.

    Climbing SJT is always a crap-shoot for me and I always expect to have my climb interrupted periodically; but it’s still a great climb, and dabbing out for a few seconds doesn’t kill me.

    The smell at Cocktail Rock is more of an issue IMO. People (or Peeple) need to take it further off the rocks for everyone’s sake.

    Just my .02

    See ya on the trails.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar
    DH bikes brought a new type of rider and attitude to the trails that was not there before. Yours is indicative.

    It takes a lot more effort to climb to the top of a mtn to then go down. Generally the poor attitude jerk offs can't swing it.

    I have shuttled SJT trail before. I also climb from the bottom to Old San Juan Trail and back around. Don't think that just because the shuttle guys are starting at the top, that they are just Dh'ing. There is still quite a bit of climbing involed on the upper section of SJT from Blue Jay. Granted it is not as intensive as from the bottom to Cocktail Rock.......but it is not all down.....does take some effort and work.


    I now climb it on the Singlespeed, but I know that I can shuttle if I choose to do so.

  49. #49
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    I don't know why you guys are all taking sides DH vs. XC vs. beach cruisers vs. unicycles...
    it's not about the bikes, it not even about the type of biking. It's about one guy being a jerk. I meet jerks all the time, in parking lots, at the airport, at work. It has nothing to do with any group/race/gender/lifestyle/favorite sports. A lot of people go through life with a sense of entitlement, everything revolves around them.

    On the other hand, we cross a lot more nice people, they slow down, say hi, tell you how many in their group, act responsibly, pick up their garbage. We don't notice them because they are not a threat. We don't see a forum post "this guy gave me a tube" or "I let that guy pass me and he said thank you". It's human nature to focus on the threats, it's the survival instinct.

    I have no solution for the jerk problem. They seem to be everywhere. Only thing I can do is to try not to be one.

  50. #50
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    Works for me

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Guy
    I have no solution for the jerk problem. They seem to be everywhere. Only thing I can do is to try not to be one.
    There it is. Plain as can be. Thanks Big Guy
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  51. #51
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    Well said!

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Guy
    I have no solution for the jerk problem. They seem to be everywhere. Only thing I can do is to try not to be one.
    Yeah, you got that right.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar
    dh bikes ruined mtn biking
    Stupid statement of the year goes to this retard.

    Urethane wheels ruined skateboarding. Snowboards ruined snow sking. Short boards ruined surfing.

    MTB vids that only feature XC are flying off the shelves too.

    You are depressed! Pick up that gun and pull the trigger- you truely are the Dork Star!

  53. #53
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    Yep. Got to get up early

    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    It's a blown out trail. What do you expect? There's a ton of traffic so there's bound to be encounters on the trail and with that many people there's definetely going to be a few boneheads around.

    Not pointing fingers, but knowing that there are DH guys on the trail (a lot of which aren't the best at emergency stops) why didn't you try to jump out of the way when you heard a noise around a blind corner? Even if it's someone poking down on a hardtail, I give them plenty of room when I'm heading up just so they have some more room for error if they sketchy when they see another user. I know descenders are supposd to yield to ascenders, but let them have their fun.
    on the week ends for a good ride at San Juan.
    Or if you go at the end of the day and race the sun down you can climb and descend unmolested.

  54. #54
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    ... and if we just ... Bobalina - My Fellow Man in Mankind

    Bob,

    Wow - quite the fire starter you are! I knew you were pretty good with words but this whole thread impressed me. You're starting to sound like.... ME.

    I will happen to be one of those fools taking the elevator ride to Blue Jay tomorrow - first time actually. And I'll be sure to be careful on the way down. I have a feeling timing has a lot to do with the over population of SJT that day. I hear the Warriors are doing trail maintenance tomorrow so I will be careful with our group to watch out for them. I personally am not a downhiller (as you know - you've ridden with me many times). I'm pretty careful around the switch backs taking care not to shred them up BMX style as I go around them. I guess if the downhillers would just respect the trail a little more and not tear it up like it's a BMX track, then accidents like the one you encountered would happen less often. I liken it though, sad as it as, to riding backwards on a BMX track.

    Anyway, if anyone happens to be in the area tomorrow, call me on channel 7-2 and say hello.

    Mark W (former resident Silver area)

    ---mark

  55. #55
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    I should have taken you up on the offer to join you, Bob. That moron would have gotten a freeride off of the edge without his engineless motorcycle. Then again, tools like that aren't worth an assault charge.

  56. #56
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    sorry to hear about this Robert and thanks, Big_Guy well put.
    I remember riding out there way back when...if you did see another rider you stopped to say hi, exchange stores and trail info. looks like times have changed....bummer

    I moved to AZ about fifteen years ago and the jerks have not found this place yet (well there is Me ) hopefully when I do come home for a visit this trail will still be open for bikes. I sure do miss it.

    enjoy the ride...Peace,Billy

  57. #57
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    reality check

    Trail ettiquette is just that - ettiquette. They are not laws that are being enforced by Park Rangers. When climbing up any multi use, two way trail, you have to be a defensive rider just like you would be a defensive driver in your car. Even with all of that accidents happen and mountian biking is obviously inherently dangerous.

    To have the attitude that the guy going downhill was 100% at fault is simply not realistic. If If you didn't see him then he probably didn't see you, if it was a blind corner you could have yelled "rider up", and if some guy in full armor on a 45 pound downhill bike really hit you at full speed I suspect you wouldn't be in a position of just complaining about it on MTBR. I doubt you would have been walking out of there.

    The bottom line is that it sounds as if it was an accident, one that you are putting 100% of the blame for the guy coming down simply because he was going down and somewhere in the back of your mind he should have done something differently.

    It sounds a little passive agressive to me. And whirling personal insults at people who have a different view than yours simply makes you look more in the wrong.

    However, I do 100% agree with your comments about the trash and the urine. The park rangers should start handing out $1,000 littering fines.

  58. #58
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    Hmm...there is something to that. It is just etiquette. And just like cutting your finger nails at work, we're not required to have good etiquette. It's also good etiquette to not wear lycra when riding mountain bikes, but there are a lot of yahoos that violate that one, too. And don't say that's not a safety issue, either
    May the air be filled with tires!

  59. #59
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    Done puking

    Pay attention its free, and its o.k. not to cry.

  60. #60
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well Wow! Sorry to hear about your "Up Close and Pesonal"

    Unfortunately, I rarely ride the SJT now on the weekends... just too many people going up (slow) and down (fast) ... bound to be incidents here and there. Sorry to hear Bob that you were one of these. Sometimes it's best to take the trails less traveled... like Bell Ridge or Coldwater or......

    Heal quickly bro,

    OMR
    Older than Dirt!!!

  61. #61
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    To be honest, I couldn't stand to read this whole thread, but I did read the majority of it and didn't see anyone mention bike bells. They put you out a couple bucks and help to avoid this stuff. A good idea for those climbing AND decending.

    A DH'er (& XC rider) who likes to think he is responsible.

    P.S.

    Sorry if this was mentioned before....like I said, I couldn't bare to read the whole thing....

  62. #62
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    Actually, I mentioned BIKE BELLS (page 1 post 5). Can't believe JEB and I are the only people who made mention. Forget about the two mountain bikers crashing into eachother on San Juan. The bigger issue has to do with horse back riders and HIKERS!!!! Anyone who rides in Santa Barbara knows bikers have bullseyes on their jerseys! Although not nearly as bad, many LA/OC hiking groups want us BANNED from these trails too.

    Bottomline, we as riders need to be more considerate. If that means slowing down- so be it! If it means zip-tying a bell to my seat rail- so be it!!

  63. #63
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    Wink I have used a bell for years

    just like too few other considerate riders. I have mine mounted on the handlebars because some people still can't hear you coming and having it mounted behind you makes it harder to hear up ahead.

    It's sad that many hikers are suprised to see a biker (like me) that's considerate enough to think about other trail users. I suppose it's not the norm.

    Maybe I'm more aware of other trail users because my wife hikes and one of my kids has a horse and I don't like to scare the crap outa people that are just outdoors trying to relax and enjoy just like me.

    Or maybe there are just so many inconsiderate *******s in the world that make me look like a boy scout.

    So be nice or I'll kick your azz , Chris
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  64. #64
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    It's clearly not a DH issue.

    This is an issue of someone riding too fast and not looking around corners. I've had plenty of close calls on that trail, with pedalers and shuttlers.

    It such a waste of time to try and categorize bikers into certain classes. I wonder if XC skiiers talk so much crap about DH skiiers????

    If someone is so against DH riding, start doing reverse shuttles. Ride up the hill and drive down. Otherwise we are all downhillers!!!!

    Getting hit sucks and if that guys was riding a 5" bike with no armor the results would have been the same, maybe worse.

  65. #65
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    Just don’t get it….

    Quote Originally Posted by A Line
    This is an issue of someone riding too fast and not looking around corners. I've had plenty of close calls on that trail, with pedalers and shuttlers.

    It such a waste of time to try and categorize bikers into certain classes. I wonder if XC skiiers talk so much crap about DH skiiers????

    If someone is so against DH riding, start doing reverse shuttles. Ride up the hill and drive down. Otherwise we are all downhillers!!!!

    Getting hit sucks and if that guys was riding a 5" bike with no armor the results would have been the same, maybe worse.


    I have been riding SJT for almost 20 years. It is a freaking CC trail! Are you kidding me??? You only need a HT or a 4” CC at most.

    A full DH bike with full face helmet. Gimme a break.

  66. #66
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    Congrats on riding a trail that long. I never said you need a dh bike??? I've ridden hardtail and all mountain bikes there for 8 years or so. If someone wants to wear a full face, who cares??? You missed my whole point, it's not a DH issue, it's an issue of a mountain biker riding out of control and hitting people.

    I agree, it is an XC trail---tell me something I don't know.

  67. #67
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    A Line

    Quote Originally Posted by A Line
    Congrats on riding a trail that long. I never said you need a dh bike??? I've ridden hardtail and all mountain bikes there for 8 years or so. If someone wants to wear a full face, who cares??? You missed my whole point, it's not a DH issue, it's an issue of a mountain biker riding out of control and hitting people.

    I agree, it is an XC trail---tell me something I don't know.
    My response was not necessarily directed at you. Also I am not singling out DH guys. I say rock on! My only beef is to stay off the CC trails. How about BJ to the Candy store? Or heck go do Joplin. That is way more fun on a bike with big travel.

    Some CC guys can also be jerks when they are coming down that trail. Again not singling out the DH guys. However I like my chances with the CC riders better because they are not all geared up for a crash and go way slower.

    ps. Climbing SJT on Monday morning.

  68. #68
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    Has any group considered putting up lender bikebells on both the shuttle trail head and main trail head. I just recently got back from a trip in SB where bikebells seem to be common place. The ringing did get anoying on long climbs, but it was very handy to hear other climbers bikebells as i descended and vica versa.

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