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  1. #1
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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Just wanted to let people know that somebody has been sabotaging a local trail this weekend, rode it today around 2pm and found lots of damage. One of my friends rode it earlier in the day and actually met the guy doing the sabotage but didnt get any pictures. He's about 5'8", white with dark short hair and has tried to dig holes in many places on the trail, succeeded in tearing down every single jump. be on the lookout and be safe.

    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills-sui01.jpgTrail Sabotage - Agoura Hills-sui02.jpg
    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills-sui03.jpg
    nothing witty here...

  2. #2
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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Rode this last week and saw the jumps torn down, but no big rocks in the way. Way messed up...

  3. #3
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    thanks Kragu, love the new bike btw.
    nothing witty here...

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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Thanks. I'm loving it too, except that I got a little overconfident on Space and ate **** pretty hard yesterday. I was looking forward to hitting those little jumps on S, and was way disappointed when I rolled up on those clumps of dirt. Lmk if you or anyone is planning a work day to rebuild.

  5. #5
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    Saw it about week and half ago,never saw who did it but I am guessing it's
    one of the homeowners/hikers that live nearby.

  6. #6
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    No one should be digging holes or building jumps on the trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    Just wanted to let people know that somebody has been sabotaging a local trail this weekend, rode it today around 2pm and found lots of damage. One of my friends rode it earlier in the day and actually met the guy doing the sabotage but didnt get any pictures. He's about 5'8", white with dark short hair and has tried to dig holes in many places on the trail, succeeded in tearing down every single jump. be on the lookout and be safe.
    H]
    man this is so wrong...he should have called the police,,,,I would have fvcked him up
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  8. #8
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    WTF

    That must be the Deutsche Bank from last year too.. looks not good... 5'8", white with dark short hair, anything else hope it's not the ranger?
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    No one should be digging holes or building jumps on the trails.
    Not unless they are wearing a badge. And even then that don't make it 'Right".

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    None of the rangers I know of are 5'8" and male. The rangers know about this illegal trail. They don't like it, and they've had numerous complaints from hikers, but keeping this trail "open" keeps some of the out-of-control X-games wanna-bes off the more popular hiking trails. It's not likely to close anytime soon, but the rangers certainly aren't going to invite additional liability by repairing any of these features. If anyone does undertake a repair, remember this winter may be an El Nino winter, so be sure to minimize erosion potential or your repair may only last until mid-January.

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    It's not an illegal trail, never has been.

    It's almost certainly a local hiker / homeowner. A friend of mine rebuilt some stuff over the last week or so and yesterday found it torn down again.

    Someone actually saw the person doing it and all they did was get a description? Way to help out. The a$$hole needs to know the riders aren't ever going to stop riding it and it actually makes me less inclined to be cautious around hikers. And there's a lot of less, shall we say "more restrained" riders here than myself that are looking for blood. If it's just one dude who's 5'8" he better seriously hope he's never caught in the act by one of those guys. The shovel in his hand won't help him out either.

  12. #12
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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Acting on any of the threats in ^this post^ will get us kicked off for sure. I get being angry but threatening physical violence is probably not the way to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Acting on any of the threats in ^this post^ will get us kicked off for sure. I get being angry but threatening physical violence is probably not the way to go.
    If your reading comprehension was up to snuff you would see I didnt make any threats whatsoever. I was simply stating I know of quite a few riders who ARE wanting to resort to violence.

    So, we should probably do it your way. Soooo that was what again? If you see the guy on the trail give him a big high-five and say "thanks for your help up here buddy"?

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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by IntenseMack10 View Post
    If your reading comprehension was up to snuff you would see I didnt make any threats whatsoever. I was simply stating I know of quite a few riders who ARE wanting to resort to violence.

    So, we should probably do it your way. Soooo that was what again? If you see the guy on the trail give him a big high-five and say "thanks for your help up here buddy"?
    How bout you stop being so goddamn hostile? This guy making you "less inclined to be cautious" sounds like a threat to me, and I'm sure a defenseless hiker OR A RANGER would read this the same way.

    There's not really a whole hell of a lot anyone can do, other than talk to the guy. You don't have a whole lot of recourse if you're building jumps on a trail where bikes aren't technically allowed (borderline, at best).

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    Such a fun trail, it's sad to see this happen. Thanks for posting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    How bout you stop being so goddamn hostile? This guy making you "less inclined to be cautious" sounds like a threat to me, and I'm sure a defenseless hiker OR A RANGER would read this the same way.

    There's not really a whole hell of a lot anyone can do, other than talk to the guy. You don't have a whole lot of recourse if you're building jumps on a trail where bikes aren't technically allowed (borderline, at best).
    No one's being hostile, except maybe you. If a heated discussion on the internet is too much for your delicate sensibilities maybe you should go ahead and back away from the keyboard there Internet forum warrior.

    I find it interesting how you presume to know how hikers or rangers or anyone would read anything. But either way it wasnt a threat. Read whatever you want Into it though.

    As I said it's not an illegal trail, nor "borderline". It's trail rights are the same as every other legal trail in SoCal: Mtn bikers are the red headed step children of trail users. Hikers and equestrians are whiney pansies and think they own the trails and think they make the rules for who can and can't ride "their" trails.

    So moving on to what can be done: offering help is a great start but if you've been on the boards long enough you probably know that most of the people on here are all talk and no action. Start by organizing your core group to actually go out there. Even though it's summer and super dry if you get enough people out there to carry water out you can successfully rebuild the small jumps on the trail. Second the trail perp needs to be reminded that bikes have just as much right on the trail as he does. And if he wants to stand on the platform of jumps being illegal trail mods, those jumps have been there for years. Possibly before he even moved into the area. And his destruction is actually worse than the minimal building that goes on on this trail. He certainly hasn't made the trail unrideable which is likely what he was aiming for, simply less fun for us. So when it is made clear to him were not gonna stop riding it maybe he'll give up his crusade.

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    Hiker really messed it up last year.. rock still needs to be fixed. Doing a good job of fkucing it up

    BTW one of the rangers that would patrol up and down the back side is @ 5'8 dark hair, won't post name but really cool, hands out cold water
    ...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntenseMack10 View Post
    No one's being hostile, except maybe you. If a heated discussion on the internet is too much for your delicate sensibilities maybe you should go ahead and back away from the keyboard there Internet forum warrior.
    Well you are coming off like an aggro douchebag. You might want to take your own advice

  19. #19
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    One thing is for certain, it ain't any of us with the top Strava times there, (Did I mention STRAVA sucks?? DID NOW!!) messing up the trail.

    Already hear that there's a majority of riders ditching the bell for a loud "Tick Tock" wristwatch, ala Peter Pan....

    If you are out there with tools and you ain't building, well then.... best hope you don't hear that sound coming atcha

    That is all....

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    Come on now..... smile on ya brotha!!

    We all might "Want" to do many things, that's the point here. Question is, will you be one of those helping to rebuild?

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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Well you are coming off like an aggro douchebag. You might want to take your own advice
    you are plain dumb....IntenseMack is right

    you ever been on a trail and clotheslined by a wire, or rocks put on blind corners or trees put down on trails and you crash hard?? when that happens there is a lot of anger. Honestly, they guy probably be crawling down the hill. Mad moment anger is crazy when you been hurt in the past
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  22. #22
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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Two separate issues here - tearing down jumps is one thing, but putting big rocks in their place is quite another. The dude deserves serious ire for the safety issue - particularly if someone were to get hurt, but the destruction of jumps is a little less black and white.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Two separate issues here - tearing down jumps is one thing, but putting big rocks in their place is quite another. The dude deserves serious ire for the safety issue - particularly if someone were to get hurt, but the destruction of jumps is a little less black and white.
    for the dence.....lets put it this way.....you are at the beach and spend an hour building a sand castle and you stand away and admire it...and out of no where I come and jump and destroy everything....what are you going to do??? You just gonna say oh well or you going to be mad???
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS View Post
    for the dence.....lets put it this way.....you are at the beach and spend an hour building a sand castle and you stand away and admire it...and out of no where I come and jump and destroy everything....what are you going to do??? You just gonna say oh well or you going to be mad???
    Depends, is it illegal to build a sand castle?

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    Easy there with your potty mouth, your response doesn't help elevate your position or make your "Points" any more legit.

    We all get that people are upset here over this, and there's lots of speculation obviously, what doesn't help is people spending their energy blasting each other, you or anyone else.

    Remember, no one here knows you, nothing said is personal that you should take as such or get worked up about, we have enough work to do just fixing the trail.

    Take the post from the author for what it is, a frustrated attempt to vent and hopefully find a solution, as opposed to a personal attack on you, or anyone else, (At least that was the original intent!
    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    How bout you stop being so goddamn hostile? This guy making you "less inclined to be cautious" sounds like a threat to me, and I'm sure a defenseless hiker OR A RANGER would read this the same way.

    There's not really a whole hell of a lot anyone can do, other than talk to the guy. You don't have a whole lot of recourse if you're building jumps on a trail where bikes aren't technically allowed (borderline, at best).

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Depends, is it illegal to build a sand castle?
    just what i thought...a pu$$y looking for excuses.....I am done talking with you...I won't talk with guys like you. You are the type that want to ride trails but never put in work. then you try and be righteous (oh were not suppose to build) typical hypocrite...

    you didn't earn to ride it. you have no sweat and elbow grease.

    .please do us all a favor and just go ride the beach path...your tax dollars paid for that...
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS View Post
    just what i thought...a pu$$y looking for excuses.....I am done talking with you...I won't talk with guys like you. You are the type that want to ride trails but never put in work. then you try and be righteous (oh were not suppose to build) typical hypocrite...

    you didn't earn to ride it. you have no sweat and elbow grease.

    .please do us all a favor and just go ride the beach path...your tax dollars paid for that...
    Yikes, dude.

    That's all I'm gonna say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Yikes, dude.

    That's all I'm gonna say.
    Yikes that you got called out? I'd bet money SMT is correct. How long have you been riding there? Have you ever spent any time helping to maintain the trail (or any others in the area for that matter?)

    That last good rain we had, me and one other guy were out in the pouring rain rebuilding some of the berms that time and riding had taken their toll on. Rain is so infrequent here in SoCal, and yet I dont remember running into you there...hmm...

    So, at this point, based on your attitude and comments I'd say you're one of two things: either a schill for the hikers just over here stirring the pot and pissing us off, or you're a crappy rider and don't hit the jumps or use the berms anyway, so trail ruined or not it makes no difference to you.

    I know one things for sure: at least the hikers and equestrians are a united front and don't argue amongst themselves. This is how they manage to make the bikers out to be the bad guys and so often successfully get trail access to bikers blocked / revoked. Sadly the mtn biking community is full of imbeciles like you and evdog who do more harm than good for our cause.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Well you are coming off like an aggro douchebag. You might want to take your own advice
    And you're coming off like a weak little pansy who jumps into the middle of situations you werent involved in and adds nothing to the solution.

    Given the choice I'd rather be aggro, but thats just me.

  30. #30
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    I'm just gonna bow out of this one. CaliD is right, y'all don't know me, and I didn't sub this thread to be berated by a couple of blowhards.

    OP, text me if you're planning on going out to work.

    Peace, foolios.

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    Good grief.... that's your addition to this thread?! Sounds like you don't contribute much to any of the trails you ride, regardless.

    Hey, you wouldn't happen to be a short guy with dark hair, would you?

    Enjoy those trails you do ride, (If you ride), and at least thank those that do the maintenance so you can at least ride at your skill level the best you can. Too many out there who only spend their energy talking and criticizing ignorantly, boasting seemingly supreme authority, if only behind a keyboard.

    Bravo, Bro, Bravo, you are a hero to us all

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    No one should be digging holes or building jumps on the trails.

  32. #32
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    You brought it on yourself, Homie.... gotta take responsibility for it, that's on you.

    At least you are man enough to know when you're beat, and bowing out somewhat gracefully, safe riding over on space mountain and through Wildwood for ya, peace, kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    I'm just gonna bow out of this one. CaliD is right, y'all don't know me, and I didn't sub this thread to be berated by a couple of blowhards.

    OP, text me if you're planning on going out to work.

    Peace, foolios.

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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Beat nothin'. Just got better things to do!

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    So clearly you are the one that did it. exhibit A, you get hurt when someone states anger at a trail being ruined. exhibit B, this response.^

  35. #35
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    Maybe him, but obviously not you......?? :/

    Hey, you wouldn't happen to be a midget with black hair, would you...? (It's ok, you can tell me, I won't judge.)

    If you just need a hug, and will stop messing up the trail and looking for attention here, hey, I'll take one for the team. Let me know, I can meet you out there


    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Beat nothin'. Just got better things to do!
    "Hate it or love it the underdog's on top, and I'm gonna shine, Homie, until my heart stops"

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    Just finished my ride on this, haven't ridden there in a few weeks. Had no idea this happened logged in to see if any info and sure enough find this thread. Pretty much a huge bummer, I'd say 80% of the features are gone. There's some rock statues in the way in one spot still.

  37. #37
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    Someone out there is really trying to make a point, let's all encourage him to step forward like a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by xhailofgunfirex View Post
    Just finished my ride on this, haven't ridden there in a few weeks. Had no idea this happened logged in to see if any info and sure enough find this thread. Pretty much a huge bummer, I'd say 80% of the features are gone. There's some rock statues in the way in one spot still.
    "Hate it or love it the underdog's on top, and I'm gonna shine, Homie, until my heart stops"

  38. #38
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    Hey folks. I rode it on Monday to check the scene and it is indeed jacked up. Mostly just features and no significant berm damage, which is good. Except the dude took some time trashing the big drop and subsequent berm. Good thing is he didn't make it all the way down to the last few jumps near the bottom.

    I fixed up as much as I could with the loose and super dry dirt and moved any large obstacles out of the way. Hopefully, when it rains we can get out there and do some real repairs and rebuilding!

    For what its worth, violence against people like this guy is about as useless as sand in the desert, it just fuels their sense of righteousness, as wrong as it may be. I think a relationship similar to Santa Barbara and Tunnels trail where the hiking and biking communities joined to create solutions to the problems each felt is the answer here. Solutions included free bells and signs noting multi-use trails, though a similar approach here may require some of the level headed amongst us attending a meeting or 2.

    Have fun everyone and keep me in the loop when the digging starts.

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    Wow, lot's of anger in this thread. I started it with the hope that people would be able to band together to get something done but instead some people need to resort to finger pointing, pretty sad. Anyhow, just like 420 said, we need to try and cooperate with each other if we want to make a change in attitude. I've done a **** ton of trail work over the years and have pretty much adopted the "make lemonade out of lemons" attitude, time the make the trail even better.


    intensemack, my friend that saw the guy is nearly 50 years old and a prominent hollywood dentist, he's not the kind of person who's going to get physical, i don't see how beating somebody up is going to make anything better, pretty sure it would make the situation a lot worse.
    nothing witty here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post


    intensemack, my friend that saw the guy is nearly 50 years old and a prominent hollywood dentist, .
    at least get a picture if it means going back to car and getting camera or camera/phone...that was his mistake for all
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    I
    OP, text me if you're planning on going out to work.
    .
    I have heard the same lame story for years. the story goes text me next time you do work and I will help...then you text people and they say I can't, I am busy with a billion excuses.

    again you are a fvcking hypocrite...why don't you man up and get your own group together and fix it????? or do it by yourself....drag a 5 gallon water jug up there. I have done that before and actually quanity four, 5 gallon jugs (20 gallons)...think about that....20 gallons weighs almost 170 pounds

    why do you even have ask text me next time????? when something needs fixing I do it without anybody else....but that is me .....

    so 2 types of people

    1)those who do work without asking for texts and

    2) fvcking pu$$y hypocrites who say they will help and never do

    which one are you kragu because it look likes number 2
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    You need to check your rage, dude. It's pretty unbecoming for someone who described themselves (in person) as "an internet legend". Thanks for that laugh a couple of years ago, btw.

    Nonetheless, despite your wholly obnoxious personality, some of your questions deserve a reply. Fact is, I've ridden here exactly three times, the first time having been about 6 weeks ago, the last about two weeks ago, right before OP's post. I'm trying to progress my riding, found this thread of interest, as well as the idea of giving back. I've cut back bushes on trails I ride that need it, but frankly, I don't know how to build a jump, and I'd rather learn with someone who does. I'm a noob, sue me. I really don't know what your problem is with someone willing to help... As for getting my own crew together, other than 2w4s, I don't know anyone who rides this trail.

    The trails that I ride mostly don't require a crapload of work, but as I get better, I find myself on ones that do. I have a ton of time this summer, and I WILL be out with tools one way or another, despite what baseless assumptions you want to make about someone who is new to it all.

    Look, SMT, the next time you want to work on HB (I know you ride out there) or any of the adjacent trails that require maintenance, I'll help out, even if it means having to deal with you. If not, I'll try and find someone else, or I'll build something that makes no sense, with the best of intentions.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Y
    Look, SMT, the next time you want to work on HB (I know you ride out there) or any of the adjacent trails that require maintenance, I'll help out, even if it means having to deal with you. If not, I'll try and find someone else, or I'll build something that makes no sense, with the best of intentions.
    that's the problem of reading instead of talking...misunderstandings...I re-read your post and you are pretty much said you would help out to to 2w4s ....I didn't like the black/white comment and some other things

    I am angry. I am angry because 98% of guys just ride and never do work but mess up a lot of the hard work. I am angry with big rocks in the trail and crashing. I am angry with logs put across trail in between runs. but I should have read more clearly. So my apology.

    BTW. I said infamous SMT...I didn't say an internet legend ha ha
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    Bro hugs.

    I'm sure I could have articulated my points more clearly to avoid some of this crap - mtbring during work has its drawbacks.

    Planning to ride HB today if anyone wants to join. Or we can head out to the trail in question, here.
    Last edited by kragu; 05-30-2014 at 09:44 PM.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS View Post
    I have heard the same lame story for years. the story goes text me next time you do work and I will help...then you text people and they say I can't, I am busy with a billion excuses.
    Do you even read your own posts? No idea what you're like in person, but maybe you'd have better luck recruiting people to work with you if you didnt sound like such a condescending jerk online dude.
    buzzes like a fridge

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectZero View Post
    Do you even read your own posts? No idea what you're like in person, but maybe you'd have better luck recruiting people to work with you if you didnt sound like such a condescending jerk online dude.
    all the guys I ride with ....do shovel time too

    and I am a condescending jerk with people who say I will help and always have an excuse to bail...I should be....everyone makes excuses....they should be called out...if that makes me a jerk...so be it

    you will always find me in the hills during or after a rain and sometimes before to get things ready for erosian control
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS View Post
    all the guys I ride with ....do shovel time too

    and I am a condescending jerk with people who say I will help and always have an excuse to bail...I should be....everyone makes excuses....they should be called out...if that makes me a jerk...so be it

    you will always find me in the hills during or after a rain and sometimes before to get things ready for erosian control
    Yeah, we get it by now. Your a *****en ass dude. No, I really mean that.

    Here's what I don't get: if someone has the right to build jumps and other things on a public trial, doesn't someone else have the right to tear those things down, dig holes, place rocks as they see fit on that same public trail. I get that stinging a line across a trail or some other things is taking it to far. But really, other then that, how much damage can one or even a few people do to a trail? I ride almost exclusively on 1500 acres of private property. A place where I don't have to worry about sabotage. Even then, I know that every time I go around a corner, go down a steep shoot or whatever, that I have to be careful that there isn't something there that wasn't there before. If I run into something that wasn't there before, and I have plenty of times, that is entirely my fault. This concept is magnified infinitely on public trails. Especially if you know about sabotage. If on a public trail, you run into anything, a rock, a log, animal, hole, another rider, you have no one to blame but yourself, or share the blame with someone else. Because, you are either riding to fast for your abilities or your not giving yourself enough room for error for what you already know of the danger that may lie ahead. Public trails aren't race tracks with yellow flags to warn you of danger ahead of time. They are not streets with signs, signals and traffic rules to keep you safe. ****, even the streets aren't safe. Public trails are in the wild, where anything can happen at anytime. And it often does. You need to ride accordingly and have some respect for that fact. The trails don't belong to you, they belong to everyone.

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    ^^This is where I'm coming from. I get being pissed that someone tore down all the hard work it took to build, but the **** is public and **** happens. Placing rocks where jumps once were is a different matter entirely. There's malice in that act.

    Also, I've never met someone who lives in that part of Agoura that I like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    ^^This is where I'm coming from. I get being pissed that someone tore down all the hard work it took to build, but the **** is public and **** happens. Placing rocks where jumps once were is a different matter entirely. There's malice in that act.

    Also, I've never met someone who lives in that part of Agoura that I like.
    Rocks are new obstacles. Learn to deal with them. Rocks sometimes roll of banks or hills onto a trail or road, especially after the fires. Some rocks are placed by people. It's all the same. I've had rocks take me out on my dirt bike and my MTN bike. ****, I had a rock take me out in a desert race at 100 mph, in a sand wash. However it got there, it was always my fault.

  50. #50
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Rocks are new obstacles. Learn to deal with them. Rocks sometimes roll of banks or hills onto a trail or road, especially after the fires. Some rocks are placed by people. It's all the same. I've had rocks take me out on my dirt bike and my MTN bike. ****, I had a rock take me out in a desert race at 100 mph, in a sand wash. However it got there, it was always my fault.
    Obviously, rocks are obstacles. Thanks for that!

    The issue isn't just dealing with the trail as it comes - none of us have a choice in the matter in the moment. The problem is that the ONLY reason someone would put down a rock like that is to eff your sh!t up, maybe under the guise of "slowing you down". A rock falling on its own isn't the same thing. If lightning strikes your house and it burns down, thems the breaks and you deal with it. If a guy comes to your house and lights it on fire, it's another matter entirely.

    That 100mph crash must have been gnarly. Glad you made it out okay!

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