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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Obviously, rocks are obstacles. Thanks for that!

    The issue isn't just dealing with the trail as it comes - none of us have a choice in the matter in the moment. The problem is that the ONLY reason someone would put down a rock like that is to eff your sh!t up, maybe under the guise of "slowing you down". A rock falling on its own isn't the same thing. If lightning strikes your house and it burns down, thems the breaks and you deal with it. If a guy comes to your house and lights it on fire, it's another matter entirely.
    But, the outcome is the same. You know it's a possibility, so prepare for it.

    oh, and some people may argue that jumps and other obstacles, "eff their sh!t up". Again, public trails belong to everyone. Not just MTN bikers who want to build jumps.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    But, the outcome is the same. You know it's a possibility, so prepare for it.
    We are going in circles about this. Yeah, you're left with a burnt down house - same result. Scenario 2 is preventable, if some douchepotato would take other human beings into consideration.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    We are going in circles about this. Yeah, you're left with a burnt down house - same result. Scenario 2 is preventable, if some douchepotato would take other human beings into consideration.
    Please tell me, when in the history of **** Sapiens has a, "douchepotato" never existed. They have always been there and will always be there. Leave your self a margin of error for those douchepotatos, man made or made by Mother Nature.

    **** = H o m o - the spaces.
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  4. #54
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    Hard to argue with riding safe. Then again, risk is part of the thrill of the sport, for some.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Yeah, we get it by now. Your a *****en ass dude. No, I really mean that.

    Here's what I don't get: if someone has the right to build jumps and other things on a public trial, doesn't someone else have the right to tear those things down, dig holes, place rocks as they see fit on that same public trail. I get that stinging a line across a trail or some other things is taking it to far. But really, other then that, how much damage can one or even a few people do to a trail? I ride almost exclusively on 1500 acres of private property. A place where I don't have to worry about sabotage. Even then, I know that every time I go around a corner, go down a steep shoot or whatever, that I have to be careful that there isn't something there that wasn't there before. If I run into something that wasn't there before, and I have plenty of times, that is entirely my fault. This concept is magnified infinitely on public trails. Especially if you know about sabotage. If on a public trail, you run into anything, a rock, a log, animal, hole, another rider, you have no one to blame but yourself, or share the blame with someone else. Because, you are either riding to fast for your abilities or your not giving yourself enough room for error for what you already know of the danger that may lie ahead. Public trails aren't race tracks with yellow flags to warn you of danger ahead of time. They are not streets with signs, signals and traffic rules to keep you safe. ****, even the streets aren't safe. Public trails are in the wild, where anything can happen at anytime. And it often does. You need to ride accordingly and have some respect for that fact. The trails don't belong to you, they belong to everyone.
    RIGHT to? Sure. It's not his land, it's not our land.

    When kids build a jump spot and anyone (except the city or land manager / owner) goes in and ruins their jumps, be it a hiker, or possibly even other riders, you can be damn sure the builders and riders are going to be pissed and want some sort of recourse.

    None of us are suggesting legal action to stop the trail ruining, and you're completely missing the point. Sure the thread is titled "sabotage" and SMT brought up other instances of actual sabotage where psycho hikers would put actual dangerous things on a trail with the intention of causing harm to riders, but that's not what this is.

    The hiker ruined features on this trail. Now, we'll have to get into a bit of conjecture here, but given the situation everything I'm going to present is a really safe bet. The hiker ruined said features for the purpose of either: slowing down the riders on this trail, OR (probably his wish here) stopping us from riding it altogether. I can tell you right now, without hesitation, neither of those things will happen. It's a great trail, only made a bit less "fun" with the ruin of jumps and berms. No one will stop riding it. As for slowing down, it could be said that people might even go faster now without having to set a perfect speed for some of the jumps and simply blast around them.

    Good for you, you have a ton of private land to ride on. Guess what? Most of the mountain biking public does not have this luxury, so we are at the mercy of public MULTI USE land and trails (since CA seems to be unaware of the existence of biking only trails). And while this a$$hole who ruined the trail features has just as much "right" to do so, we have the same "right" to build on it. And since its not a matter that will be settled in a court based on laws, it will need to resolved some other way.

  6. #56
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    People already ride much faster around blind turns ever since tb and staircase was defaced last year.. Take out features and hikers are really going to get trucked by these types of riders, it's just how the steeps are on this trail. The features are what make these types of Strava riders respect what is coming up around the corner. Probably found the trail on a group ride -hosted by new bike shops-. Most of them I've seen don't ride with a lead out front when they come back..could be one of these and not a hiker

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    People already ride much faster around blind turns ever since tb and staircase was defaced last year.. Take out features and hikers are really going to get trucked by these types of riders, it's just how the steeps are on this trail. The features are what make these types of Strava riders respect what is coming up around the corner. Probably found the trail on a group ride -hosted by new bike shops-. Most of them I've seen don't ride with a lead out front when they come back..could be one of these and not a hiker
    In the San Diego area, a number of the trails that are being closed are getting shut down in part because they have been " Stravatized" so riders can rail them faster and faster.

    They cut back Federally protected bush species, build berms on the outside curves, all kinds of stuff to make the trail 'speedier.'
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post

    intensemack, my friend that saw the guy is nearly 50 years old and a prominent hollywood dentist, he's not the kind of person who's going to get physical, i don't see how beating somebody up is going to make anything better, pretty sure it would make the situation a lot worse.
    Is "skim reading" the standard way to read internet forums or something?

    Not once have I suggested that violence is a good idea. Actually go back and read my posts. What I said was, I know of other regulars who ride this trail that are out for blood. I was not condoning those actions or thought process.

    And as for your friend who actually saw him: it seems your friend is the ONLY person I have heard of who has actually caught the a$$hat in the act. Your friend could be the worlds biggest pacifist, but he could have at least said something. In fact a non- violent, non hot headed initial contact with the perp might actually be one of the best ways to go. And it would certainly be taking a much higher road than the guy initially took. I ride this trail all the time, and know lots of other people who do as well, and I had not heard one report of any hiker stopping any of the riders and discussing any issues he may have with the riders, he just took it upon himself to ruin the features with the goal of trying to run the bikers off the trail.

  9. #59
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    Lol, what makes you think he didn't say something? you have no clue on the whole story yet you feel the need to insult me, somebody you've never met who's here trying to help out the community. also, take your own advice. i was responding to your comment that he didn't do anything, you clearly stated that violence is a possibility by other people, i suggested that's not a smart idea and that my friend isn't capable of that kind of response, not once did i say anything about you. I'm sure you're going to respond with another tough post, you seem to be really good at that. go ahead, this should be fun, although i'm really starting to feel bad about myself for even participating in such a stupid and pointless internet argument.

    "Someone actually saw the person doing it and all they did was get a description? Way to help out. The a$$hole needs to know the riders aren't ever going to stop riding it and it actually makes me less inclined to be cautious around hikers. And there's a lot of less, shall we say "more restrained" riders here than myself that are looking for blood. If it's just one dude who's 5'8" he better seriously hope he's never caught in the act by one of those guys. The shovel in his hand won't help him out either."
    nothing witty here...

  10. #60
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    Trail Sabotage - Agoura Hills

    How long has that gap/double/berm been out of commission? Way beyond my abilities at this point, but I'd be interested to know if that was destroyed as a part of this guy's plan or it was earlier than that.
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  11. #61
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    which gap double to berm, there's two. all the damage seems to have been done at the same time, although i went about 2 weeks without riding sui so i guess it could have been staggered. Rode it both saturday and sunday this weekend and didn't see anything new. I would like to get back up there to start digging but unless there's a way to get a bunch of water up there i don't really see the point.
    nothing witty here...

  12. #62
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    really?? you are douche...granted you are an xc rider having NO CLUE about this trail because you are an XC rider....can't even believe you are a mountain biker.....have you ever rode the trail in mention ???..do you even know about this trail??..it is not really a good hiking trail because it is steeper then most hiking trails (no switchbacks)...so the bottom line....a hiker shouldn't even be messin with trail or even on it....keep riding your private area.(which is probablly a frickin sidewalkwalk...hope you feel safe.....but this is the real world for 99% of riders. So take yourself off the forum and go ride your private stuff(you have no clue)...while us "other" riders deal with public land.....what a moron you sound like in your post...you are ignorant of the plight of most people talking in this post



    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Yeah, we get it by now. Your a *****en ass dude. No, I really mean that.

    Here's what I don't get: if someone has the right to build jumps and other things on a public trial, doesn't someone else have the right to tear those things down, dig holes, place rocks as they see fit on that same public trail. I get that stinging a line across a trail or some other things is taking it to far. But really, other then that, how much damage can one or even a few people do to a trail? I ride almost exclusively on 1500 acres of private property. A place where I don't have to worry about sabotage. Even then, I know that every time I go around a corner, go down a steep shoot or whatever, that I have to be careful that there isn't something there that wasn't there before. If I run into something that wasn't there before, and I have plenty of times, that is entirely my fault. This concept is magnified infinitely on public trails. Especially if you know about sabotage. If on a public trail, you run into anything, a rock, a log, animal, hole, another rider, you have no one to blame but yourself, or share the blame with someone else. Because, you are either riding to fast for your abilities or your not giving yourself enough room for error for what you already know of the danger that may lie ahead. Public trails aren't race tracks with yellow flags to warn you of danger ahead of time. They are not streets with signs, signals and traffic rules to keep you safe. ****, even the streets aren't safe. Public trails are in the wild, where anything can happen at anytime. And it often does. You need to ride accordingly and have some respect for that fact. The trails don't belong to you, they belong to everyone.
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  13. #63
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    I think it's a great idea to get a pic of this asshat, I am old school rider who put this first jumps and berms on Suicidal , it that is the trail your talking about. we only had deadcow at the time with a cross trail leading to Suicidal, we called it that because some of us hung out with Suicidal Tendencies, wore no helmets, we has no shocks, just hangout smoke fatty's and rolled down hardcore. I am a cc old school racer and still ride down it.

    lets take pic's of this dude so we know who he is, see him on the trail give him a hard time, however I would say dont kick his ass, because the cops and lawsuits, now a days are not the same how it used to be, long time ago and can kick someone's ass at the bike rack and shake hands. just my two cents.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    which gap double to berm, there's two.
    I was talking about the one that gaps over the ride around, immediately followed by a double, then a hard right berm.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    Lol, what makes you think he didn't say something? you have no clue on the whole story yet you feel the need to insult me, somebody you've never met who's here trying to help out the community. also, take your own advice. i was responding to your comment that he didn't do anything, you clearly stated that violence is a possibility by other people, i suggested that's not a smart idea and that my friend isn't capable of that kind of response, not once did i say anything about you. I'm sure you're going to respond with another tough post, you seem to be really good at that. go ahead, this should be fun, although i'm really starting to feel bad about myself for even participating in such a stupid and pointless internet argument.

    "Someone actually saw the person doing it and all they did was get a description? Way to help out. The a$$hole needs to know the riders aren't ever going to stop riding it and it actually makes me less inclined to be cautious around hikers. And there's a lot of less, shall we say "more restrained" riders here than myself that are looking for blood. If it's just one dude who's 5'8" he better seriously hope he's never caught in the act by one of those guys. The shovel in his hand won't help him out either."
    Quite ironic how you call me insulting, yet you have said that I am promoting and inciting violence, which is the epitome of insulting and more importantly is a pretty serious accusation considering that we know rangers and hikers, etc. all silently patrol these boards.

    But you went ahead and pasted in and bolded my quote so lets doconstruct it, since you cant seem to be able to do that on your own. See how at the start I note that there are many OTHER riders that I know of who ride the trail? And how I also note that they are LESS level headed than me and are already talking about wanting this dude's blood? So, please do explain how me bringing to light the feelings of other riders and what they could possibly do is in any way shape or form me promotong violence? Especially when I say from the outset that they are LESS level headed (which is SUPER encrypted code speak saying that I don't agree with their point of view).

    Now, moving on: you ask what makes me think your friend did'nt say anything to the guy? Really simple deduction: if he HAD said something, whatever the outcome of that conversation would have been, would have been the most note-worthy thing you could have possibly posted. Whether it was the guy saying "oh totally sorry I thought I was making the trail safer" or "yeah I'm trying to run you darn bikers off the trail". So, please prove me wrong! Your friend actually said something and you casually left that minor detail out? What was said? Did they come to any sort of resolution? Can we work WITH said hiker to improve relations to both party's on the trail?

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntenseMack10 View Post
    Now, moving on: you ask what makes me think your friend did'nt say anything to the guy? Really simple deduction: if he HAD said something, whatever the outcome of that conversation would have been, would have been the most note-worthy thing you could have possibly posted. Whether it was the guy saying "oh totally sorry I thought I was making the trail safer" or "yeah I'm trying to run you darn bikers off the trail". So, please prove me wrong! Your friend actually said something and you casually left that minor detail out? What was said? Did they come to any sort of resolution? Can we work WITH said hiker to improve relations to both party's on the trail?
    sounds legit to me
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  17. #67
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    only a matter of time

    Quote Originally Posted by Madman43 View Post
    I think it's a great idea to get a pic of this asshat...
    Been trying to roll through the parking lot early lunch time on weekdays, seems longer than a year now. Two common vehicles off and on in p-lot at that time (seen one high end mtb come out of the car before), and @ sunset one other parks up on lind... if hoeing middle of the day, hard timing to catch.

    People should start taking a couple guys @ 10:30am - 1 on a weekday, think it's a good chance to catch this deutsche bank

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by IntenseMack10 View Post
    blah blah blah
    I'm starting to see your logic and i think I'm on to you. Clearly you can't prove that you weren't there destroying the trail last saturday so the only conclusion i can draw is that you're the 5'8" guy with short hair taking a pickax to the trail. the only way you can prove it wasn't you is to post a picture of yourself, on a mountain unicycle, next to the cheseboro park sign. go ahead, prove me wrong.
    nothing witty here...

  19. #69
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    i work in agoura and actually got to ride this trail (sadly) only once right before it was destroyed. im here at work every weekday. if any of the local builders want a hand during the week after work hours - shoot me a PM.

  20. #70
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    That is Evan (evdog) for you. He is a short about 4'11" bald head. And has not gotten laid in about a couple of decades. His only life is the Internet. If he isn't riding he is trolling the internet. Maybe if he actually "Rode" his bike he might know the peak i was talking about at the party instead of saying (like a jaded short mentality person/little man syndrome) "I know all the peaks in the country...blah....blah...blah"

    Quote Originally Posted by IntenseMack10 View Post
    And you're coming off like a weak little pansy who jumps into the middle of situations you werent involved in and adds nothing to the solution.

    Given the choice I'd rather be aggro, but thats just me.

  21. #71
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    I do find it astonishing how many sheep jump on the sheepdog for having a little passion.
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