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  1. #1
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    Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    The State Fish and Game wardens are out in force for the ENTIRE Del Mar Mesa. They are no longer just enforcing the fenced portions. They are ticketing everybody up there who veer off of the main fire road. As Ranger Gina Washington shared with me in a recent email,

    "State wardens have the authority to enforce posted rules and regulations on any public property".

    I know I am preaching to the choir but, just in case you have a brain fart and head out that way, you are now informed.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  2. #2
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    Thank for the heads up BB.

    And thank goodness the real crimes are finally being focused on in this state. Whew!
    If not biking, then what?

  3. #3
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    this bothers me. go harass somebody else. cops only seem to enforce the pointless easy laws that don't actually protect anybody.

  4. #4
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    So they'll be driving their trucks through all the vernal pools chasing people down in order to protect the vernal pools?

  5. #5
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    Fulll Court Press on Del Mar Mesa aka "tunnels"

    CFG wardens are issuing tickets, and the entire "tunnels" area is completely locked down as of July 28 2013. Men with guns and tasers are hiding in the bushes out there and stated that they will be showing a strong presence going forward. I received a ticket last weekend (7/21). By this weekend, new permanent metal signs are in place with reference to the "Endangered Species Act." The signs are at every possible entry point to Deer Canyon and Del Mar Mesa. This means that currently there is no legal way whatsoever to travel from East/West across the mesa. Everything is completely closed off like the Berlin Wall.
    THEY HAVE EVEN INSTALLED A HIDDEN SURVEILANCE CAMERA WHICH APPEARS TO BE MOTION ACTIVATED!! (The camera is under a bush by a fencepost close to the eucalyptus grove where the cowards hide.)
    I AM SHOCKED AND OUTRAGED AT THIS BEHAVIOR AND NEED TO ASK FOR HELP IN WHAT WE (THE RECREATIONAL USERS) CAN DO!!!
    Please post replies. I don't know how to get involved but this has to stop.
    Jon Perkins

  6. #6
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    OK, let's think this through. Everyone does what they do every day because someone told them to, They have an agenda, a group is pressuring them to do so, or they are wishing for some expected outcome/reaction to their actions.
    What is it in this case? Why does it sit untouched for months and then they are out in force? Why did the ranger (who I like) send out an email out warning to stay out of the mesa and then, wham, the DFG are out there. Did they both know this was going to happen? If so, why? Who told them to do it? What taxer paid employee is doing this?
    It's not raining so the vernal pool folks shouldn't be upset at this time (but don't count them out)
    Is it that the city has been dragging their feet for years and have been called out on that so now they are moving to close it down to get it off their plate?

    Do the DFG officials plan on spending every day out there to keep it shut down? Is this our tax dollars at work to take further areas out of your hands even though you are paying for them to ticket you?

    Sorry but the skeptic nature of me thinks there is a group of anti-bikers that wants this permanently shut down now. They have pressured their connections to get off their tails and do something to close it.

    If you have any inside info and/or know the contacts that we can get to and voice opinions please post up. I'll be posting later tonight the couple I know of you you can let them know how you feel if you choose to do anything about this.

    Riding the fire road in the canyon is not a big thrill for me personally and I have seen more user conflicts due to more congestion. I have brought this up to the ranger on a couple of occasions also.
    San Diego needs singletrack

  7. #7
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    Obama's America: Gov't control of everything under the guise of phony pseudo-environmentalism crap.

    You laugh? Then why are taxpayer-paid rangers involved in this BS?!!
    If not biking, then what?

  8. #8
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    From the DFG web site- enjoy

    Poaching

    Poaching is the illegal taking of fish and wildlife. It can involve hunting out of season, the taking of more fish or game animals than the law allows, and the illegal commercialization of species including abalone, sturgeon, bears, reptiles and many others. Equally devastating crimes include pollution and habitat destruction and the insidious practice of transporting and introducing non-native, undesirable fish (like northern pike and white bass) into California's lakes and rivers.

    Although deer are a frequently poached animal, virtually all other species of California wildlife are also subject to illegal activity including bear, elk, antelope, marine fish, crustaceans, abalone and other mollusks, inland fish, raptors, and reptiles.

    Poachers devastate nature by breaking laws designed to assure proper wildlife management and species survival. Poaching is an insult to the vast majority of hunters and anglers who obey the rules.

    Because poaching is a crime of secrecy and stealth, its full impact in California is impossible to fully gauge. However, enough poaching is documented to realize that it exacts a very heavy toll.

    State Department of Fish and Wildlife officers do all they can to combat poaching. But there are only a few hundred wardens spread throughout California. To successfully fight poaching they must have help from all Californians.




    So, help them out folks and call their hotline to report poaching
    San Diego needs singletrack

  9. #9
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    Saw 2 men in green out walking in the eucalypts grove last week. No trucks. The hidden camera was gone from where it was, but a big post with a sign blocked the gateway into the grove. They must have been gathering data, and decided it was time to bust bikers. You would have thought they caught footage of endanger animals being run down by bikes! Where did this crack down come from?

    This is becoming a consistent annoying pattern in San Diego. All the areas which have desirable riding go through these random crackdowns by marines, Wardens etc. Fire roads are presented as trails, and nature is being safely fenced in. Not much in the way of new trails created or established trails legitimized. Aside from the weather, I cant think of a more hostile place toward mountain biking that I have lived in.

    I guess the Shitz DH is going to see way more usage.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by scepticshock View Post
    I guess the Shitz DH is going to see way more usage.
    That trail is so blown out right now and I don't think any bikers are jumping up & down wanting to fix it due to the way bikers have been treated. Yes, I know it's not the time to do trail work now but either is the mind set of many
    Sad to see but boy are those fire roads fun !
    San Diego needs singletrack

  11. #11
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    San Diego has always been regressive and repressive to cycling. Even road cyclists are given the short end of the stick. The only group treated with respect is the real estate developing community.
    And the military. The USMC has made mtb's into the "New Insurgents"! And the DFG would rather let meth-heads poach deer all night long while they pursue the NEW #1 Threat to Nature.....the mountain cyclist!

    Let's face it. The Angry SS had a point, but he was a bit fuzzy about it. The truth is, mountain biking has always been considered the scum of outdoor activity in Richard Nixons' Lucky City.(Yes, children, that's exactly how that old kommie referred to San Diego!). Golf is much, much better for the environment.
    FORE!
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  12. #12
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    The tunnels were a blast when i rode them. It does suck to have a favorite ride removed from the rotation, but when you are "poaching" a trail it may very well get shut down like this one has. This should hardly be a surprise to anyone.

    Spring, Oak, and Sycamore canyons may be lost to us eventually. I will enjoy the hell out of them until that time comes. It wont surprise me when it finally happens.

    Some of you are painting it like there are nothing but fire roads left in SD. Like the man is trying to kill MTBing here. There are still enough fun rides in greater SD to keep us all entertained. Ride somewhere else. In a few years the heat will be off and you can sneak back onto those trails with none the wiser.

  13. #13
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    when I lived in san diego for a few months, all I remember were rules and rules and more rules, for literally everything - and the locals LOVED the rules, even snitched out their neighbors for utter nonsense.

    on the plus side, it does look like san diego is heading to bankruptcy some day, maybe then you can ride the **** out of everything when there isn't the cash to enforce all the crap.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    The tunnels were a blast when i rode them. It does suck to have a favorite ride removed from the rotation, but when you are "poaching" a trail it may very well get shut down like this one has. This should hardly be a surprise to anyone.

    Spring, Oak, and Sycamore canyons may be lost to us eventually. I will enjoy the hell out of them until that time comes. It wont surprise me when it finally happens.

    Some of you are painting it like there are nothing but fire roads left in SD. Like the man is trying to kill MTBing here. There are still enough fun rides in greater SD to keep us all entertained. Ride somewhere else. In a few years the heat will be off and you can sneak back onto those trails with none the wiser.
    In way less than a few years there will be significant cuts to the budget of F&G due to the State's weak financial situation. There's too few F&G wardens right now.......sooner or later, they are gonna have to return to their real calling, which is enforcing the laws against fish and game poachers.

    And yes, the city is near broke as well, so patrolling land instead of performing truly vital duties will really be seen a frivolous, especially when those they are 'nailing' are taxpaying law-abiding citizens. IMO, their presence on the trails (the taxpaying trail users, actually helps PROTECT the land from the real threats.......uncontrolled 4-wheeling, pot farming, crystal meth labs, dumping truckloads of trash, etc.
    The San Diego mountain biking community, under the auspices of SDMBA, and IMBA, have in fact removed more trash left over from the days of migrant camps than any/all other volunteer groups. And right after they did it, they got a big 'thank you-now get out'.

    Sooner or later, either the easy way or the hard ay, these administrators of public land policy are gonna have to listen to the public, or face the prospect of being ignored, and then fired by that same public.

    I know it COULD be worse.... I remember back when riding a bicycle on any road on the north side of the creek was an infraction. Seems ludicrous to newcomers, but that is exactly what the bike-haters, and their fellow-travelers who claim to 'sensible, moderate' mountain bikers, are gunning for.
    It's just that, these days, mountain biking is represented by vastly larger numbers, and the diversity of all the mtbing sub-groups is making it pretty clear that mtbing is not going way.

    Make me wonder if all these local elected, and even appointed 'officials' and authorities need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post

    Make me wonder if all these local elected, and even appointed 'officials' and authorities need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...
    Give them a weatherman, street signs, flashing lights, a painted stripe on the ground and they will still choose poorly. You are talking about politicians after all.

  16. #16
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    Nothing will compare to the outrage unleashed by the entitled minority if this latest enforcement impacts them. Please please PLEASE let the DFG nail an equestrian or two. And slap an extra couple hundo fine on top for not cleaning the poop off the trails.

    Yeah, right. One can dream.
    "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left."
    Ty Webb

  17. #17
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    Think of it as GREEN fees. The cost of riding off road.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    San Diego has always been regressive and repressive to cycling. Even road cyclists are given the short end of the stick. The only group treated with respect is the real estate developing community.
    And the military. The USMC has made mtb's into the "New Insurgents"! And the DFG would rather let meth-heads poach deer all night long while they pursue the NEW #1 Threat to Nature.....the mountain cyclist!

    Let's face it. The Angry SS had a point, but he was a bit fuzzy about it. The truth is, mountain biking has always been considered the scum of outdoor activity in Richard Nixons' Lucky City.(Yes, children, that's exactly how that old kommie referred to San Diego!). Golf is much, much better for the environment.
    FORE!

    Think of it as GREEN fees. The cost of riding off road.

  18. #18
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    It is great to see other people upset over this "Berlin Wall" stance from the CDF and the City...
    BUT... I want to get a grassroots thing going. Not just comments and gripes! WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION.
    I have heard that the owners of the bike shop in Sorrento Valley (the name may be "North of the Border"?) are sympathetic to the cause, and may have a petition, or an idea of how to start the process of getting our grievances heard by the politburo and their CDF (KGB?) minions.
    I'll stop by there today or tomorrow and keep you posted. Any attorneys out there that can weigh in on this??

  19. #19
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    Yes, awaiting the bankruptcy of the city and state so we can do away with all the useless rangers...
    If not biking, then what?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by random walk View Post
    Nothing will compare to the outrage unleashed by the entitled minority if this latest enforcement impacts them. Please please PLEASE let the DFG nail an equestrian or two. And slap an extra couple hundo fine on top for not cleaning the poop off the trails.

    Yeah, right. One can dream.
    I will dream that dream with you, haha.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

  21. #21
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    Maybe something has changed in upper management thinking at State fish and game. They recently ticketed a bunch of hikers for trespassing into a closed area near Santa Cruz.

  22. #22
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    I thought these guys only bugged fishers and hunters, who are poaching, or hunting out of season. Maybe budget cuts are making them go out to fill quotas for expensive tickets.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perkafella View Post
    It is great to see other people upset over this "Berlin Wall" stance from the CDF and the City...
    BUT... I want to get a grassroots thing going. Not just comments and gripes! WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION.
    I have heard that the owners of the bike shop in Sorrento Valley (the name may be "North of the Border"?) are sympathetic to the cause, and may have a petition, or an idea of how to start the process of getting our grievances heard by the politburo and their CDF (KGB?) minions.
    I'll stop by there today or tomorrow and keep you posted. Any attorneys out there that can weigh in on this??
    Short short is the lands have been off limits since 2008.

    Long story here --> PQ Tunnels

    Entire History here --> LPQ, Tunnels and Del Mar Mesa: Get Involved!

    There is a less than perfect trail plan out, approved by the city that included Tunnels 1 and 4, the portions of the rim trail on the west side and the switchback trail down into the canyon (Gonzales?). Left out of the plan are Tunnels 2 and 3 (rocking horse) because they encroach on the DFG mitigation land, tunnel 5 and the all important E/W connector. This has been run into the ground. If this is an issue to you, and it should be, you need to contact the San Diego Open Space director and express yourself professionally and assertively.

    Open Space
    Deputy Director Chris Zirkle, (619) 685-1350
    General open space maintenance
    Brush management of City-owned open space
    Open Space Regional Parks:
    Mission Trails, Otay Valley, Tecolote, Marian Bear, Rose Canyon, Los Penasquitos and Black Mountain
    San Diego River Planning Support
    Citywide open space coordination
    Park Rangers serving open space parks
    MSCP (Multiple Species Conservation Program) compliance

    Early last year the controversial trails plan was approved by the City Parks and Recreation department. It was delayed while awaiting the results of an archaeological study. To date, no ETA has been produced. The project/plan has been effectively mothballed creating the shut down we are experiencing now.

    Call Chris Zirkle, email him, write him. He is the one who originally order the DMM closed and has the authority to open it!.

    It is time to get him and the city moving on this again. In an odd way the ticketing is a good thing because it has the masses riled up again. The question is, will we use this for action or just post it here?
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  24. #24
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    Copied from my email relies from Chris:



    Chris Zirkle, Deputy Director
    Open Space Division
    Park and Recreation Department
    202 "C" Street, 5th Floor (MS 5D)
    San Diego, CA 92101
    (619) 685-1323
    czirkle@sandiego.gov
    San Diego needs singletrack

  25. #25
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    Thanks Mike. I forgot to include all the pertinent information.


    You best option to make a difference between calls, emails, and letters...

    1) Write a letter - It has to be logged by the city and becomes record

    2) Call - You will most likely leave a message on the voice mail and it is easily missed

    3) Email - Ask yourself this. How effective are all the adds(spam) you get in your personal or work email? Why would it be any different at the city?


    Write a letter

    WRITE a LETTER

    WRITE A LETTER

    Take the five minutes you have spent reading through all of this and pen a simple letter stating why you have a problem with it. Explain how it is beneficial to have access. Ask why we are being denied access to lands that already have an approved trail system (by Parks and Rec, no less).

    Please, WRITE A LETTER!!!!

    There are a lot of people on this board who have a vested interest in the land. Take the time and prove it to Chris Zirkle.

    P.S. Share this with anybody not on the boards. There are a whole set of folks impacted by the recent rash of tickets that know nothing of this site.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

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