Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 586
  1. #1
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,623

    Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    The State Fish and Game wardens are out in force for the ENTIRE Del Mar Mesa. They are no longer just enforcing the fenced portions. They are ticketing everybody up there who veer off of the main fire road. As Ranger Gina Washington shared with me in a recent email,

    "State wardens have the authority to enforce posted rules and regulations on any public property".

    I know I am preaching to the choir but, just in case you have a brain fart and head out that way, you are now informed.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  2. #2
    MTP
    MTP is offline
    Nothing to see here
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    892
    Thank for the heads up BB.

    And thank goodness the real crimes are finally being focused on in this state. Whew!
    If not biking, then what?

  3. #3
    Hooligan
    Reputation: dirtdawg21892's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    937
    this bothers me. go harass somebody else. cops only seem to enforce the pointless easy laws that don't actually protect anybody.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    86
    So they'll be driving their trucks through all the vernal pools chasing people down in order to protect the vernal pools?

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    5

    Fulll Court Press on Del Mar Mesa aka "tunnels"

    CFG wardens are issuing tickets, and the entire "tunnels" area is completely locked down as of July 28 2013. Men with guns and tasers are hiding in the bushes out there and stated that they will be showing a strong presence going forward. I received a ticket last weekend (7/21). By this weekend, new permanent metal signs are in place with reference to the "Endangered Species Act." The signs are at every possible entry point to Deer Canyon and Del Mar Mesa. This means that currently there is no legal way whatsoever to travel from East/West across the mesa. Everything is completely closed off like the Berlin Wall.
    THEY HAVE EVEN INSTALLED A HIDDEN SURVEILANCE CAMERA WHICH APPEARS TO BE MOTION ACTIVATED!! (The camera is under a bush by a fencepost close to the eucalyptus grove where the cowards hide.)
    I AM SHOCKED AND OUTRAGED AT THIS BEHAVIOR AND NEED TO ASK FOR HELP IN WHAT WE (THE RECREATIONAL USERS) CAN DO!!!
    Please post replies. I don't know how to get involved but this has to stop.
    Jon Perkins

  6. #6
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    OK, let's think this through. Everyone does what they do every day because someone told them to, They have an agenda, a group is pressuring them to do so, or they are wishing for some expected outcome/reaction to their actions.
    What is it in this case? Why does it sit untouched for months and then they are out in force? Why did the ranger (who I like) send out an email out warning to stay out of the mesa and then, wham, the DFG are out there. Did they both know this was going to happen? If so, why? Who told them to do it? What taxer paid employee is doing this?
    It's not raining so the vernal pool folks shouldn't be upset at this time (but don't count them out)
    Is it that the city has been dragging their feet for years and have been called out on that so now they are moving to close it down to get it off their plate?

    Do the DFG officials plan on spending every day out there to keep it shut down? Is this our tax dollars at work to take further areas out of your hands even though you are paying for them to ticket you?

    Sorry but the skeptic nature of me thinks there is a group of anti-bikers that wants this permanently shut down now. They have pressured their connections to get off their tails and do something to close it.

    If you have any inside info and/or know the contacts that we can get to and voice opinions please post up. I'll be posting later tonight the couple I know of you you can let them know how you feel if you choose to do anything about this.

    Riding the fire road in the canyon is not a big thrill for me personally and I have seen more user conflicts due to more congestion. I have brought this up to the ranger on a couple of occasions also.
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  7. #7
    MTP
    MTP is offline
    Nothing to see here
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    892
    Obama's America: Gov't control of everything under the guise of phony pseudo-environmentalism crap.

    You laugh? Then why are taxpayer-paid rangers involved in this BS?!!
    If not biking, then what?

  8. #8
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    From the DFG web site- enjoy

    Poaching

    Poaching is the illegal taking of fish and wildlife. It can involve hunting out of season, the taking of more fish or game animals than the law allows, and the illegal commercialization of species including abalone, sturgeon, bears, reptiles and many others. Equally devastating crimes include pollution and habitat destruction and the insidious practice of transporting and introducing non-native, undesirable fish (like northern pike and white bass) into California's lakes and rivers.

    Although deer are a frequently poached animal, virtually all other species of California wildlife are also subject to illegal activity including bear, elk, antelope, marine fish, crustaceans, abalone and other mollusks, inland fish, raptors, and reptiles.

    Poachers devastate nature by breaking laws designed to assure proper wildlife management and species survival. Poaching is an insult to the vast majority of hunters and anglers who obey the rules.

    Because poaching is a crime of secrecy and stealth, its full impact in California is impossible to fully gauge. However, enough poaching is documented to realize that it exacts a very heavy toll.

    State Department of Fish and Wildlife officers do all they can to combat poaching. But there are only a few hundred wardens spread throughout California. To successfully fight poaching they must have help from all Californians.




    So, help them out folks and call their hotline to report poaching
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  9. #9
    Well Biked
    Reputation: scepticshock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,709
    Saw 2 men in green out walking in the eucalypts grove last week. No trucks. The hidden camera was gone from where it was, but a big post with a sign blocked the gateway into the grove. They must have been gathering data, and decided it was time to bust bikers. You would have thought they caught footage of endanger animals being run down by bikes! Where did this crack down come from?

    This is becoming a consistent annoying pattern in San Diego. All the areas which have desirable riding go through these random crackdowns by marines, Wardens etc. Fire roads are presented as trails, and nature is being safely fenced in. Not much in the way of new trails created or established trails legitimized. Aside from the weather, I cant think of a more hostile place toward mountain biking that I have lived in.

    I guess the Shitz DH is going to see way more usage.

  10. #10
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by scepticshock View Post
    I guess the Shitz DH is going to see way more usage.
    That trail is so blown out right now and I don't think any bikers are jumping up & down wanting to fix it due to the way bikers have been treated. Yes, I know it's not the time to do trail work now but either is the mind set of many
    Sad to see but boy are those fire roads fun !
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  11. #11
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    San Diego has always been regressive and repressive to cycling. Even road cyclists are given the short end of the stick. The only group treated with respect is the real estate developing community.
    And the military. The USMC has made mtb's into the "New Insurgents"! And the DFG would rather let meth-heads poach deer all night long while they pursue the NEW #1 Threat to Nature.....the mountain cyclist!

    Let's face it. The Angry SS had a point, but he was a bit fuzzy about it. The truth is, mountain biking has always been considered the scum of outdoor activity in Richard Nixons' Lucky City.(Yes, children, that's exactly how that old kommie referred to San Diego!). Golf is much, much better for the environment.
    FORE!

  12. #12
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,502
    The tunnels were a blast when i rode them. It does suck to have a favorite ride removed from the rotation, but when you are "poaching" a trail it may very well get shut down like this one has. This should hardly be a surprise to anyone.

    Spring, Oak, and Sycamore canyons may be lost to us eventually. I will enjoy the hell out of them until that time comes. It wont surprise me when it finally happens.

    Some of you are painting it like there are nothing but fire roads left in SD. Like the man is trying to kill MTBing here. There are still enough fun rides in greater SD to keep us all entertained. Ride somewhere else. In a few years the heat will be off and you can sneak back onto those trails with none the wiser.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    514
    when I lived in san diego for a few months, all I remember were rules and rules and more rules, for literally everything - and the locals LOVED the rules, even snitched out their neighbors for utter nonsense.

    on the plus side, it does look like san diego is heading to bankruptcy some day, maybe then you can ride the shit out of everything when there isn't the cash to enforce all the crap.

  14. #14
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    The tunnels were a blast when i rode them. It does suck to have a favorite ride removed from the rotation, but when you are "poaching" a trail it may very well get shut down like this one has. This should hardly be a surprise to anyone.

    Spring, Oak, and Sycamore canyons may be lost to us eventually. I will enjoy the hell out of them until that time comes. It wont surprise me when it finally happens.

    Some of you are painting it like there are nothing but fire roads left in SD. Like the man is trying to kill MTBing here. There are still enough fun rides in greater SD to keep us all entertained. Ride somewhere else. In a few years the heat will be off and you can sneak back onto those trails with none the wiser.
    In way less than a few years there will be significant cuts to the budget of F&G due to the State's weak financial situation. There's too few F&G wardens right now.......sooner or later, they are gonna have to return to their real calling, which is enforcing the laws against fish and game poachers.

    And yes, the city is near broke as well, so patrolling land instead of performing truly vital duties will really be seen a frivolous, especially when those they are 'nailing' are taxpaying law-abiding citizens. IMO, their presence on the trails (the taxpaying trail users, actually helps PROTECT the land from the real threats.......uncontrolled 4-wheeling, pot farming, crystal meth labs, dumping truckloads of trash, etc.
    The San Diego mountain biking community, under the auspices of SDMBA, and IMBA, have in fact removed more trash left over from the days of migrant camps than any/all other volunteer groups. And right after they did it, they got a big 'thank you-now get out'.

    Sooner or later, either the easy way or the hard ay, these administrators of public land policy are gonna have to listen to the public, or face the prospect of being ignored, and then fired by that same public.

    I know it COULD be worse.... I remember back when riding a bicycle on any road on the north side of the creek was an infraction. Seems ludicrous to newcomers, but that is exactly what the bike-haters, and their fellow-travelers who claim to 'sensible, moderate' mountain bikers, are gunning for.
    It's just that, these days, mountain biking is represented by vastly larger numbers, and the diversity of all the mtbing sub-groups is making it pretty clear that mtbing is not going way.

    Make me wonder if all these local elected, and even appointed 'officials' and authorities need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...

  15. #15
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post

    Make me wonder if all these local elected, and even appointed 'officials' and authorities need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...
    Give them a weatherman, street signs, flashing lights, a painted stripe on the ground and they will still choose poorly. You are talking about politicians after all.

  16. #16
    banned
    Reputation: random walk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,666
    Nothing will compare to the outrage unleashed by the entitled minority if this latest enforcement impacts them. Please please PLEASE let the DFG nail an equestrian or two. And slap an extra couple hundo fine on top for not cleaning the poop off the trails.

    Yeah, right. One can dream.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    108

    Think of it as GREEN fees. The cost of riding off road.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    San Diego has always been regressive and repressive to cycling. Even road cyclists are given the short end of the stick. The only group treated with respect is the real estate developing community.
    And the military. The USMC has made mtb's into the "New Insurgents"! And the DFG would rather let meth-heads poach deer all night long while they pursue the NEW #1 Threat to Nature.....the mountain cyclist!

    Let's face it. The Angry SS had a point, but he was a bit fuzzy about it. The truth is, mountain biking has always been considered the scum of outdoor activity in Richard Nixons' Lucky City.(Yes, children, that's exactly how that old kommie referred to San Diego!). Golf is much, much better for the environment.
    FORE!

    Think of it as GREEN fees. The cost of riding off road.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    5
    It is great to see other people upset over this "Berlin Wall" stance from the CDF and the City...
    BUT... I want to get a grassroots thing going. Not just comments and gripes! WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION.
    I have heard that the owners of the bike shop in Sorrento Valley (the name may be "North of the Border"?) are sympathetic to the cause, and may have a petition, or an idea of how to start the process of getting our grievances heard by the politburo and their CDF (KGB?) minions.
    I'll stop by there today or tomorrow and keep you posted. Any attorneys out there that can weigh in on this??

  19. #19
    MTP
    MTP is offline
    Nothing to see here
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    892
    Yes, awaiting the bankruptcy of the city and state so we can do away with all the useless rangers...
    If not biking, then what?

  20. #20
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by random walk View Post
    Nothing will compare to the outrage unleashed by the entitled minority if this latest enforcement impacts them. Please please PLEASE let the DFG nail an equestrian or two. And slap an extra couple hundo fine on top for not cleaning the poop off the trails.

    Yeah, right. One can dream.
    I will dream that dream with you, haha.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Forum Posting Rules
    e-bike sub-forum rules

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    4,126
    Maybe something has changed in upper management thinking at State fish and game. They recently ticketed a bunch of hikers for trespassing into a closed area near Santa Cruz.

  22. #22
    Well Biked
    Reputation: scepticshock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,709
    I thought these guys only bugged fishers and hunters, who are poaching, or hunting out of season. Maybe budget cuts are making them go out to fill quotas for expensive tickets.

  23. #23
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,623
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkafella View Post
    It is great to see other people upset over this "Berlin Wall" stance from the CDF and the City...
    BUT... I want to get a grassroots thing going. Not just comments and gripes! WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION.
    I have heard that the owners of the bike shop in Sorrento Valley (the name may be "North of the Border"?) are sympathetic to the cause, and may have a petition, or an idea of how to start the process of getting our grievances heard by the politburo and their CDF (KGB?) minions.
    I'll stop by there today or tomorrow and keep you posted. Any attorneys out there that can weigh in on this??
    Short short is the lands have been off limits since 2008.

    Long story here --> PQ Tunnels

    Entire History here --> LPQ, Tunnels and Del Mar Mesa: Get Involved!

    There is a less than perfect trail plan out, approved by the city that included Tunnels 1 and 4, the portions of the rim trail on the west side and the switchback trail down into the canyon (Gonzales?). Left out of the plan are Tunnels 2 and 3 (rocking horse) because they encroach on the DFG mitigation land, tunnel 5 and the all important E/W connector. This has been run into the ground. If this is an issue to you, and it should be, you need to contact the San Diego Open Space director and express yourself professionally and assertively.

    Open Space
    Deputy Director Chris Zirkle, (619) 685-1350
    General open space maintenance
    Brush management of City-owned open space
    Open Space Regional Parks:
    Mission Trails, Otay Valley, Tecolote, Marian Bear, Rose Canyon, Los Penasquitos and Black Mountain
    San Diego River Planning Support
    Citywide open space coordination
    Park Rangers serving open space parks
    MSCP (Multiple Species Conservation Program) compliance

    Early last year the controversial trails plan was approved by the City Parks and Recreation department. It was delayed while awaiting the results of an archaeological study. To date, no ETA has been produced. The project/plan has been effectively mothballed creating the shut down we are experiencing now.

    Call Chris Zirkle, email him, write him. He is the one who originally order the DMM closed and has the authority to open it!.

    It is time to get him and the city moving on this again. In an odd way the ticketing is a good thing because it has the masses riled up again. The question is, will we use this for action or just post it here?
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  24. #24
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    Copied from my email relies from Chris:



    Chris Zirkle, Deputy Director
    Open Space Division
    Park and Recreation Department
    202 "C" Street, 5th Floor (MS 5D)
    San Diego, CA 92101
    (619) 685-1323
    czirkle@sandiego.gov
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  25. #25
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,623
    Thanks Mike. I forgot to include all the pertinent information.


    You best option to make a difference between calls, emails, and letters...

    1) Write a letter - It has to be logged by the city and becomes record

    2) Call - You will most likely leave a message on the voice mail and it is easily missed

    3) Email - Ask yourself this. How effective are all the adds(spam) you get in your personal or work email? Why would it be any different at the city?


    Write a letter

    WRITE a LETTER

    WRITE A LETTER

    Take the five minutes you have spent reading through all of this and pen a simple letter stating why you have a problem with it. Explain how it is beneficial to have access. Ask why we are being denied access to lands that already have an approved trail system (by Parks and Rec, no less).

    Please, WRITE A LETTER!!!!

    There are a lot of people on this board who have a vested interest in the land. Take the time and prove it to Chris Zirkle.

    P.S. Share this with anybody not on the boards. There are a whole set of folks impacted by the recent rash of tickets that know nothing of this site.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  26. #26
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Thanks Mike. I forgot to include all the pertinent information.


    You best option to make a difference between calls, emails, and letters...

    1) Write a letter - It has to be logged by the city and becomes record

    2) Call - You will most likely leave a message on the voice mail and it is easily missed

    3) Email - Ask yourself this. How effective are all the adds(spam) you get in your personal or work email? Why would it be any different at the city?


    Write a letter

    WRITE a LETTER

    WRITE A LETTER

    Take the five minutes you have spent reading through all of this and pen a simple letter stating why you have a problem with it. Explain how it is beneficial to have access. Ask why we are being denied access to lands that already have an approved trail system (by Parks and Rec, no less).

    Please, WRITE A LETTER!!!!

    There are a lot of people on this board who have a vested interest in the land. Take the time and prove it to Chris Zirkle.

    P.S. Share this with anybody not on the boards. There are a whole set of folks impacted by the recent rash of tickets that know nothing of this site.
    Should we write a letter

    I do have to say that Chris did return all my emails. Please be direct but respectful when writing
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  27. #27
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,902
    I hope the DFG has the resources to deal with the criminal element that will move back in to that area after bikers are scared off. Luckily we have gained some cool trails in San Marcos. The DMM issue has been a thorn in my side for years. Basically you will see them ramp up enforcement for the rest of the summer and things will die down. If you want to know who is complaining you can find them in the huge houses up on the mesa.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,398
    I went up there today and didn't see anything but one runner.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    688
    Seems like every time some group decides to flex their muscle and shut down trails, people (and not just bikers) respond by building more hidden trails. Then six months later when they inevitably shift their priorities or run out of resources to patrol the trails we get them back, and we have all of the new trails too. I've seen this pattern at a few different local trail systems. If you can stay away while things are controversial, or ride in small groups at off peak times, you might just get rewarded when the heat is off...

  30. #30
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    Seems like every time some group decides to flex their muscle and shut down trails, people (and not just bikers) respond by building more hidden trails. Then six months later when they inevitably shift their priorities or run out of resources to patrol the trails we get them back, and we have all of the new trails too. I've seen this pattern at a few different local trail systems. If you can stay away while things are controversial, or ride in small groups at off peak times, you might just get rewarded when the heat is off...
    Sorry, but illegal trail building in this area will only make things worse. Any trail building, damage etc. by other groups will be blamed on bikers as a matter of convenience. The branch cutting in the tunnels was blamed on bikers when it was clearly done by equestrians so they could get down the trail without having to dismount.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,398
    ^^^ True

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    688
    I'm just pointing out that more illegal trails are a typical result of this kind of enforcement.

  33. #33
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    I'm not saying to get out and start building but how do you think all the trails came to be? Someone did it and it wasn't the rangers.....
    Migrants, hikers, game, and bikers probably did it at some point in time I would think. You can rest assured that the equestrians didn't lift finger
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  34. #34
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    I'm not saying to get out and start building but how do you think all the trails came to be? Someone did it and it wasn't the rangers.....
    Migrants, hikers, game, and bikers probably did it at some point in time I would think. You can rest assured that the equestrians didn't lift finger
    Very true, the majority of the trails on DMM were created by migrant workers, dirt bike riders, kids and sdg&e trucks. Nobody really cared until Pardee homes obliterated all the single track known as the intestines. When that happened more people started riding the other side and the complaints started.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  35. #35
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    One would think that they would open up the trails, let the user groups repair & maintain them, and then the tax payers that own the trails and pay their salaries could use what they have paid for already. But we're talking about government agencies here....
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    5
    DMM Trails/Tunnels Update 8/5/13.
    Dept of Fish and Game still hiding in the eucalyptus patch. They were there at 5:45 PM last evening (Sunday 8/4/13). I was shocked to see them there at that hour. There is also a ground level surveillance camera set up at the fence where the No Trespassing sign is! link here...
    Keeping an eye on you - YouTube
    I would like to know... whose doing all the watching??
    And what on earth are they watching for???

  37. #37
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkafella View Post
    DMM Trails/Tunnels Update 8/5/13.
    Dept of Fish and Game still hiding in the eucalyptus patch. They were there at 5:45 PM last evening (Sunday 8/4/13). I was shocked to see them there at that hour. There is also a ground level surveillance camera set up at the fence where the No Trespassing sign is! link here...
    Keeping an eye on you - YouTube
    I would like to know... whose doing all the watching??
    And what on earth are they watching for???
    Well, before they claimed the cameras were placed there by a college student doing a study of some sort but those cams were in a different area. I think it is clear that they want to see who is crossing the barrier. Obviously they are collecting data for some reason and it ain't about wildlife.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    5
    Game Wardens are still hiding in the bushes on Del Mar Mesa as of Sunday 8/4/13 at 5:45 PM. Yup, sitting in their little game warden truck, scheming their little game warden schemes at quarter to six in the evening! Wow! They even have what appears to be a motion detecting surveillance camera at the base of the fence where the No Trespassing sign is. The camera appears to be a significant piece of technology and I can't help but wonder who is doing all the watching? What the hell could be so important out there that there are people willing to install cameras under bushes in the middle of nowhere, and post (very serious) men with guns and tasers as guards.
    Am I the only one who finds this absurd, and a serious misallocation of valuable resources? Who has the ear of a congressman that likes to mountain bike? WE NEED HELP!

  39. #39
    Well Biked
    Reputation: scepticshock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,709
    Maybe its away of showing how effective their "deterrent program is"? Bike traffic before, bike traffic after.

    If they only protected the boarder so securely....

  40. #40
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    Well, before they claimed the cameras were placed there by a college student doing a study of some sort but those cams were in a different area. I think it is clear that they want to see who is crossing the barrier. Obviously they are collecting data for some reason and it ain't about wildlife.

    We were told from the ranger at the meeting that it was a study to monitor traffic via hoof, boot, or tire. Ok...
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  41. #41
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    The budget for this kind of seemingly frivolous enforcement is not a bottomless one, and there is no way that the citations issued could even come close to paying for the salaries of 2 armed officers and two trucks, so sooner or later something's gotta give. Maybe the one good thing about our dysfunctional Congress's "sequestration" strategy is that cutbacks to work hours for F&G, Park Rangers, etc. are inevitable.
    While it's going to create a tremendous number of problems, it might work in favor of a more reasonable, less bureaucratic, policy towards DMM, by default.

    I doubt those guys are gonna work for free....

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    89
    I enjoy other stuff as well as riding my mtn bike like fishing and i will say that dfg(now dfw)is no friend to anyone but enviros and humane society.

    Each year i spend more and more for a fishing license and get less in return with less areas to legally fish.Oh an catch a lobster while diving and its a legal size by a couple hairs they will try to force their measuring gauge real hard so they can try and cite you for an undersize.Was tried on me but the idiot broke the very tip of shell.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    380

    Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    Anyone know if they're up there around dawn?

    Oh, and last weekend I saw a helicopter up there flying quite low and flying back and forth multiple times across the Mesa. I could be just paranoid, but it sure seemed like they were looking for people.

  44. #44
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkafella View Post
    DMM Trails/Tunnels Update 8/5/13.
    Dept of Fish and Game still hiding in the eucalyptus patch. They were there at 5:45 PM last evening (Sunday 8/4/13). I was shocked to see them there at that hour. There is also a ground level surveillance camera set up at the fence where the No Trespassing sign is! link here...
    Keeping an eye on you - YouTube
    I would like to know... whose doing all the watching??
    And what on earth are they watching for???
    That is amazing, what a waste of money. a semi-hidden camera? for reals? Gimme a break, isn't there real crime to be fought in the world?
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Forum Posting Rules
    e-bike sub-forum rules

  45. #45
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    That is amazing, what a waste of money. a semi-hidden camera? for reals? Gimme a break, isn't there real crime to be fought in the world?

    It amazing to think they are wasting so much money and manpower on this but they have a agenda.
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  46. #46
    Titanium Club
    Reputation: Ferdball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    229
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkafella View Post
    DMM Trails/Tunnels Update 8/5/13.
    Dept of Fish and Game still hiding in the eucalyptus patch. They were there at 5:45 PM last evening (Sunday 8/4/13). I was shocked to see them there at that hour. There is also a ground level surveillance camera set up at the fence where the No Trespassing sign is! link here...
    Keeping an eye on you - YouTube
    I would like to know... whose doing all the watching??
    And what on earth are they watching for???
    There is also a camera just like that one at the bottom of T4.

  47. #47
    ocd
    ocd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkafella View Post
    DMM Trails/Tunnels Update 8/5/13.
    Dept of Fish and Game still hiding in the eucalyptus patch. They were there at 5:45 PM last evening (Sunday 8/4/13). I was shocked to see them there at that hour. There is also a ground level surveillance camera set up at the fence where the No Trespassing sign is! link here...
    Keeping an eye on you - YouTube
    I would like to know... whose doing all the watching??
    And what on earth are they watching for???
    Best post I've seen here in a while, hilarious "They're gonna catch somebody"

    Reminded me of hearing such comments from a family elder, who (RIP) would be disgusted at what this country's government has come to.

    what is better was that previously the justification was "oh they are game cameras"
    Yes, game cameras and I'm Borat.... and Borat might just get caught on camera.

  48. #48
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by moldau94 View Post

    Oh, and last weekend I saw a helicopter up there flying quite low and flying back and forth multiple times across the Mesa. I could be just paranoid, but it sure seemed like they were looking for people.
    That would be a tremendously effective use of our tax dollars!

    BTW....Holy Crap! I just clicked on the youtube link. That was a seriously funny take on a seriously fubared situation.


    Actually, the area in question has become classified as a Top Secret Zone. You could think of it as Area 52. What you discovered is only the tip of the high security iceberg. If anybody here ever finds out about those Alien Artifacts that were discovered down there by the archeologists, the cat will be out of the bag.
    Last edited by Old Ray; 08-06-2013 at 11:10 AM.

  49. #49
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,902
    Pretty funny, no Blue Angels or flight displays at the air show. Roads full of pot holes. Fire department cuts. Mayor "feelin her" sueing to have taxpayers pay legal fees, SDG&E wants taxpayers to pay to decom San Onofre but we have money to shake down a few bikers.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  50. #50
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    Pretty funny, no Blue Angels or flight displays at the air show. Roads full of pot holes. Fire department cuts. Mayor "feelin her" sueing to have taxpayers pay legal fees, SDG&E wants taxpayers to pay to decom San Onofre but we have money to shake down a few bikers.
    Perspective is a magical thing.....
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Forum Posting Rules
    e-bike sub-forum rules

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: socal_jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,187
    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan View Post
    Maybe something has changed in upper management thinking at State fish and game. They recently ticketed a bunch of hikers for trespassing into a closed area near Santa Cruz.
    Bingo! Since Dan Richards lost his job as head of the former DFG now renamed Dept of Fish & Wildlife (I shit you not, Game Wardens have been re-named to "Wildlife Officers" Careers - California Department of Fish and Wildlife). You may notice not all occurrences of DFG have been scrubbed to DFW. DFW will now be less focused on traditional "game management" activities such as enforcing poaching and other game laws, and more into the touchy feely enforcement, witness the new mission statement

    "The California Department of Fish and Wildlife (formerly "Department of Fish and Game") maintains native fish, wildlife, plant species and natural communities for their intrinsic and ecological value and their benefits to people. This includes habitat protection and maintenance in a sufficient amount and quality to ensure the survival of all species and natural communities. The department is also responsible for the diversified use of fish and wildlife including recreational, commercial, scientific and educational uses."

    Going forward you're likely to see them more active in boundary enforcement of MLPAs and phony ecological preserves such as DMM(and all the other Agenda 21 goals) than actual wildlife management.

  52. #52
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    On Sunday morning I gave that camera a
    Ok........ maybe it wasn't a thumb
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    41
    I was riding on the Mesa last week and I saw a ranger's truck along with his fresh truck tracks.

    Funny thing - His tire tracks went right THROUGH! the vernal pools!!!

    Literally right through the middle of the pool! Aren't they there to protect the precious shrimp?

    Maybe they would have more sympathy for us if they actually had to ride their bike onto the mesa, rather than drive a big truck

    Doug in San Diego

    P.S. On a side note, I also saw bike tracks through the middle of the pools.

    We are really not helping our cause if we keep doing dumb moves like that.
    (I suspect one of the weekend warriors ,clad in armor, was just too tired to ride his 50lb bike around the pool)

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Weinerts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    306
    It always bugs me to see how the quad tracks are smashing the plants when I work so hard to ride around them....
    My bike is heavier than yours - it does not have Carbon or Titanium parts - I love it!

  55. #55
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Weinerts View Post
    It always bugs me to see how the quad tracks are smashing the plants when I work so hard to ride around them....
    You can rest assured that when its Wildlife Officers who are smashing those plants with their quads, that they are doing it for a very good, and official, reason.

  56. #56
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    That vernal pool was probably one on the very precious SDG&E fire road and they "built" it by their heavy A$$ truck plowing through the muddy roads as we're told to stay off at that time.
    "Do as I say, not as I do.... or you'll get a ticket"
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by bbqdad View Post
    I was riding on the Mesa last week and I saw a ranger's truck along with his fresh truck tracks.

    Funny thing - His tire tracks went right THROUGH! the vernal pools!!!

    Literally right through the middle of the pool! Aren't they there to protect the precious shrimp?

    Maybe they would have more sympathy for us if they actually had to ride their bike onto the mesa, rather than drive a big truck

    Doug in San Diego
    take a photo of this and go to the next city meeting regarding trail issues and present it as evidence against the city ....need to ask them how is it that the people protecting these trails are able to get away with doing this and where is the conservation when rangers who have been put in place to protect these land sections are doing worse damage ....be interesting to see the response - hell take a gopro and get video of who is doing it

  58. #58
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by daygoVR6 View Post
    take a photo of this and go to the next city meeting regarding trail issues and present it as evidence against the city ....need to ask them how is it that the people protecting these trails are able to get away with doing this and where is the conservation when rangers who have been put in place to protect these land sections are doing worse damage ....be interesting to see the response - hell take a gopro and get video of who is doing it
    I believe that the fire road is owned by SDG&E and they plow their trucks right through the mud holes if they are "vernal pool" or not. Same with the rangers. Rules don't apply
    Oh, and those houses up on the mesa never had vernal pools, endangered plants, or animals....... Right....
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    34
    well this just sucks, I haven't been through there in a few months as I have been riding different parts of town...but just the other night I cut through the non fenced in area and nothing seemed out of the norm ...but I wasn't necessarily looking either

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    118
    Two green CDFG trucks hanging out by the eucalyptus grove as of 10am this morning. Tax payer funded circle-jerk.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,043
    Keep in mind this is a city controlled by unions and union interests. I have nothing against the idea of a union but these guys pretty much run the whole city of San Diego. Just ask Bob "Lick my Cheecks" Filner (before he leaves town for good). The housing developments, the strip malls, more roads and highways... And then they complain about mountain bikers. I guess there is no union contract with a mountain biker. It's totally stupid.

  62. #62
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by wjphillips View Post
    Keep in mind this is a city controlled by unions and union interests. I have nothing against the idea of a union but these guys pretty much run the whole city of San Diego. Just ask Bob "Lick my Cheecks" Filner (before he leaves town for good). The housing developments, the strip malls, more roads and highways... And then they complain about mountain bikers. I guess there is no union contract with a mountain biker. It's totally stupid.
    This has nothing to do with unions, and everything to do with the privileges of the Privileged. You see, they simply do not want to look out of their 30'X15' picture windows, and gaze upon dirty, mountain bike-riding, servants having fun and staying fit. And as far as I know, there ain't no Peons' Union!

    IMO, SoCal Jack's post of 2 weeks' ago has basically nailed down what most of the change is due to. That and the disappearance, with full Council approval, and to Pardee's benefit (along with the former landowners who happily sold their land for a tidy fortune) of all the rest of the DM Mesa open space, save for the tiny bit at the west end overlooking I5.

    That one of those former landowners happens to be one of the most vocal 'environmentalists' calling for the closure of DMM is perhaps ironic, but for me, a longtime Diego native, it's nothin' new.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    118
    There are lots of people who live on the Mesa and in Torrey Hills that ride and trail-run. Many are unaware of the issues out here. The only downside about increasing awareness locally about this travesty is if/when they do open that area up, there is going to be a whole lot more traffic.

    I'm pissed off enough based on things that happened this morning that I've decided I'm done sitting on my hands.

    I'm sure those moving into the Alta Del Mar neigborhood (intenstines) would be upset to hear that the city has closed much of the trails that Pardee is selling as one of the many advanatages of owning a home here. I intend on going door to door, welcoming them to the neighborhood and informing them of the city's woeful mismanangement of the area (including delaying the master trails plan).

    I've also put a call into Lightners office. I'd like to be able to tell folks that she's part of the solution. We'll see what her rep has to say about that. I'm taking my show on the road to Tri Club San Diego, SDBC, Swamis and any one else who will listen.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mpmffitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    403
    Sucks !
    You do the crime you pay the dime though!

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    4,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntro View Post
    There are lots of people who live on the Mesa and in Torrey Hills that ride and trail-run. Many are unaware of the issues out here. The only downside about increasing awareness locally about this travesty is if/when they do open that area up, there is going to be a whole lot more traffic.

    I'm pissed off enough based on things that happened this morning that I've decided I'm done sitting on my hands.

    I'm sure those moving into the Alta Del Mar neigborhood (intenstines) would be upset to hear that the city has closed much of the trails that Pardee is selling as one of the many advanatages of owning a home here. I intend on going door to door, welcoming them to the neighborhood and informing them of the city's woeful mismanangement of the area (including delaying the master trails plan).

    I've also put a call into Lightners office. I'd like to be able to tell folks that she's part of the solution. We'll see what her rep has to say about that. I'm taking my show on the road to Tri Club San Diego, SDBC, Swamis and any one else who will listen.
    Right on, bro.

  66. #66
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by mpmffitz View Post
    Sucks !
    You do the crime you pay the dime though!
    The problem here is, the REAL crime has the law on its' side!

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation: evdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,515
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntro View Post
    I've also put a call into Lightners office. I'd like to be able to tell folks that she's part of the solution.
    To my knowledge she is a big part of the problem. She is best buddy with some of the entitled equestrians in the DMM area and will vote along whatever lines they ask her to. In fact she was openly hostile toward MTBers after her office was flooded with faxes regarding the trails plan for DMM prior to some city or park and rec board meeting a couple years back.

  68. #68
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,623
    ^^^Evdog knows this first hand and this is the problem we are facing. Politicians are bought by the vote and the support ($$$$). We have the numbers. Hell, this post has seen over 3600 views since it was first posted up. Huntro has the right idea. It sounds like he is trying to get others involved. I realized that there are not 3600 users but there are far more watching this than the 30 or so that have posted.

    Political pressure is one of the ways to help get this process moving along. So, here are your local contacts. Please reach out to them and increase the awareness. There are many people within their district that want legal access to what already exists and has been taken away.

    Lorie Zapf
    Council Member, District 6 (Mira Mesa and S Penasquitos)

    202 "C" Street, 10th Floor
    San Diego, CA 92101
    Phone: (619) 236-6616
    Fax: (619) 236-7329
    Email : loriezapf@sandiego.gov

    Sherri Lightner
    Council Member District 1 (Rancho Penasquitos)

    202 C Street, MS #10A
    San Diego, CA 92101
    Phone: (619) 236-6611
    Fax: (619) 236-6999
    Email sherrilightner@sandiego.gov

    Don't be afraid that they may not represent our interests. If we do not let them know of our interests, then they will never represent us. Please do it in a respectful manner. We don't need to perpetuate the douche-bag myth. The trail users are individuals, parents, grandparents, and are a substantial portion of their community base. We need everybody to be involved. Show them where the money is. Long shot? Yep. But what do you have to lose?

    The current message is clear:

    You get NOTHING!
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  69. #69
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post

    The trail users are individuals, parents, grandparents, TAX PAYERS and are a substantial portion of their community base. We need everybody to be involved. Show them where the money is. Long shot? Yep. But what do you have to lose?

    The current message is clear:

    You get NOTHING!
    Fixed it for you
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  70. #70
    It ain't easy being Green
    Reputation: sdcadbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,141
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    Fixed it for you
    You forgot "Voters"!

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    42
    What's the latest on this? Just finished with ironman season, happy to get back on the dirt and my commute to work was littered with branches, new fences, more durable signs, cameras. Based on the trail conditions traffic does not seem to be drastically different. Haven't seen any patrollers. We need like twitter or Facebook page warning when the patrollers are out there.

  72. #72
    IPA tester
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    847
    Pretty quiet up here the last two mornings during my citizen safety patrol.
    The storm fronts have blown most of the signs away too. Must be global warming?
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti
    Dirttreaders.com

  73. #73
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    Pretty quiet up here the last two mornings during my citizen safety patrol.
    The storm fronts have blown most of the signs away too. Must be global warming?
    Most likely. It will mean hell for those fairy shrimp eggs on the "Main Trail".

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    289
    The local mountain biking community is getting exactly what it deserves.

    All you people want to do is go to meetings, sign petitions, write letters. The fascists (I don't use that term lightly) whom you are fighting against don't care about any of that. The only thing which a brute respects is power. By playing their game, you have all shown that you lack it.

    You can have as many trails as you want, and you get as many as you deserve.

    Pathetic.

  75. #75
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,623
    Please feel free to join a militia and take up arms against the man. After you get out of jail, assuning you are still alive, please let us know how that worked for you. It is easy to talk big on the net with nothing to back it up. While you may not approve of my message, I am actually talking the talk AND walking the walk. You?

    This really wasnt worth the effort to type it.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    289
    You sound like one of those IMBA fools.

    How do you think all of those skateparks got built? Lots of reasons, but one is leverage: City planners know that if they don't provide an outlet for the skaters, the kids will "damage" all of their pretty stairs and curbs. What leverage have you got?

    Very few MB groups take this approach, but they seem to get what they want:

    How the first legal dedicated DH trail system was built in the US
    Last edited by recitio; 09-08-2013 at 10:35 PM.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    688
    A friend of mine was recently ticketed here. He actually only went a few feet inside the opening in the gate before turning around and heading down the fireroad. He was "in the zone" listening to loud music and apparently a truck was behind him for a while before he noticed (at break between songs). He pulled to the side to make room expecting the ranger to pass and was surprised when he found out he was the one in trouble. He got a ticket for trespassing and another misdemeanor for obstructing the duty of an officer. Two ranger trucks and another officer on a bike showed up, probably the most fun they had all day. My buddy is in his mid fifties, makes plenty of $$, and has never been in trouble with the law. The idea that he would knowingly run away to avoid a fine is ridiculous. He doesn't care about paying the trespassing fine but is worried about the misdemeanor since it's a criminal offense, he is not sure if he should get a lawyer or what. Any advice for him?

  78. #78
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    A friend of mine was recently ticketed here. He actually only went a few feet inside the opening in the gate before turning around and heading down the fireroad. He was "in the zone" listening to loud music and apparently a truck was behind him for a while before he noticed (at break between songs). He pulled to the side to make room expecting the ranger to pass and was surprised when he found out he was the one in trouble. He got a ticket for trespassing and another misdemeanor for obstructing the duty of an officer. Two ranger trucks and another officer on a bike showed up, probably the most fun they had all day. My buddy is in his mid fifties, makes plenty of $$, and has never been in trouble with the law. The idea that he would knowingly run away to avoid a fine is ridiculous. He doesn't care about paying the trespassing fine but is worried about the misdemeanor since it's a criminal offense, he is not sure if he should get a lawyer or what. Any advice for him?
    For one, never ride with two ear buds in.

    two, don't stop for rangers.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Forum Posting Rules
    e-bike sub-forum rules

  79. #79
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,623
    Quote Originally Posted by recitio View Post
    You sound like one of those IMBA fools.

    How do you think all of those skateparks got built? Lots of reasons, but one is leverage: City planners know that if they don't provide an outlet for the skaters, the kids will "damage" all of their pretty stairs and curbs. What leverage have you got?

    Very few MB groups take this approach, but they seem to get what they want:

    How the first legal dedicated DH trail system was built in the US
    Couple things with this video..

    Mountain biking trails were already legally established and accepted in the Teton Pass where the down hill trails were built. In other words, they already had a foothold. That is hardly the case here. In the two hotly contested areas, the DMM and Mission Trails, the approach by the city of San Diego is these were never legal trails so you cannot be there. That has to change.

    The enforcement appears different. We are up against armed DFG officers who are actively patrolling. The active protest you are advocating will only enrich their coffers and justify the security presence. The change needs to come from within the city before we see a change in the field.

    The Freedom Riders had to lose numerous trails to maintain the one legal trail in the beginning. They had to compromise to get the approval of the forest service. I cannot speak for Mission Trails, but at the DMM, there is an approved but far from optimal trails plan approved by the Dept of Parks and Req and is awaiting site studies. It is along the same line perused in the video. Nothing moves fast and this appears to be bogged down now. But how long did the process take in the video? It was no where near fast or overnight.

    We need so much more people power but have not received it. There are a few who are pursuing the business side (developers, bike shops, and the like) to help generate more movement. Watch the titles of some of the movers in the video - business owners and prominent business folk who were willing to stand up for their cause.

    You speak of taking your tax dollars elsewhere? How exactly do you dictate how your tax dollars are spent? Sure you can avoid sales tax but you cannot control the allocations of the state coffers. That is, unless you vote.

    Probably the hardest part for lots of people to digest and accept is even when we are victorious, not all the trails will be left. Exactly what happened in the video.

    So lets leave it at this. Feel free to do your thing and I will do mine. This fool's goal is to make sure there are trails for my kids and theirs. If we go with the "ride it while you can" and do nothing to secure the future, there is no future for these trails.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    93
    Contact info for the southern region office of DFG/DFW

    AskR5@wildlife.ca.gov
    Main Office
    3883 Ruffin Road
    San Diego, CA 92123
    (858) 467-4201
    FAX: (858) 467-4299
    EMAIL the South Coast Region
    Regional Manager: Ed Pert

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    688
    ok. any legal advice? anyone else get tagged with the "obstruction" charge?

  82. #82
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,623
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    ok. any legal advice? anyone else get tagged with the "obstruction" charge?
    Sorry, your friend is probably SOL. I have heard the tickets for trespassing is between $75 to over $400. I have no idea on the "obstruction" charge but I cannot imagine it is not cheap.

    Only advice (non-legal person here) is to show up and hope for leniency. It helped me in a red light ticket years ago when they were used rampantly. Judge lowered the bail from $475 to $275 for just showing up. I am sure there are lots of other strategies but that is the one card I know.

    Tell him good luck.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Couple things with this video..

    Mountain biking trails were already legally established and accepted in the Teton Pass where the down hill trails were built. In other words, they already had a foothold. That is hardly the case here. In the two hotly contested areas, the DMM and Mission Trails, the approach by the city of San Diego is these were never legal trails so you cannot be there. That has to change.

    The enforcement appears different. We are up against armed DFG officers who are actively patrolling. The active protest you are advocating will only enrich their coffers and justify the security presence. The change needs to come from within the city before we see a change in the field.

    The Freedom Riders had to lose numerous trails to maintain the one legal trail in the beginning. They had to compromise to get the approval of the forest service. I cannot speak for Mission Trails, but at the DMM, there is an approved but far from optimal trails plan approved by the Dept of Parks and Req and is awaiting site studies. It is along the same line perused in the video. Nothing moves fast and this appears to be bogged down now. But how long did the process take in the video? It was no where near fast or overnight.

    We need so much more people power but have not received it. There are a few who are pursuing the business side (developers, bike shops, and the like) to help generate more movement. Watch the titles of some of the movers in the video - business owners and prominent business folk who were willing to stand up for their cause.

    You speak of taking your tax dollars elsewhere? How exactly do you dictate how your tax dollars are spent? Sure you can avoid sales tax but you cannot control the allocations of the state coffers. That is, unless you vote.

    Probably the hardest part for lots of people to digest and accept is even when we are victorious, not all the trails will be left. Exactly what happened in the video.

    So lets leave it at this. Feel free to do your thing and I will do mine. This fool's goal is to make sure there are trails for my kids and theirs. If we go with the "ride it while you can" and do nothing to secure the future, there is no future for these trails.
    Leverage. You've got none. The only thing that you're ensuring is that there will be plenty of legal fire road riding available.

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. -Albert Einstein

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    289
    @Joe,

    First thing I'd do, if I were your friend, is call you up and scream at you for posting that publicly on the internet.

    Second thing I'd do is get a lawyer.

  85. #85
    Binned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,883
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    For one, never ride with two ear buds in.
    It's actually illegal in the state of California have have two ear buds in simultaneously anywhere, anytime. Can't do it riding, running, driving, and so on.

    The guy who got cited didn't stop because he couldn't hear them coming... sorry to say but that is his bad.

  86. #86
    Is this thing on?
    Reputation: Froride1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    556
    Quote Originally Posted by recitio View Post
    @Joe,

    First thing I'd do, if I were your friend, is call you up and scream at you for posting that publicly on the internet.

    Second thing I'd do is get a lawyer.
    Looks like he posted it himself, just in the wrong forum. http://forums.mtbr.com/california-no...go-875147.html

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    405
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    It's actually illegal in the state of California have have two ear buds in simultaneously anywhere, anytime. Can't do it riding, running, driving, and so on.

    The guy who got cited didn't stop because he couldn't hear them coming... sorry to say but that is his bad.
    What if it had been a deaf guy that didn't stop because he didn't hear them coming?

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chuckanado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    174
    ^^^^ Isn't that what Tasers are for?

  89. #89
    Binned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,883
    Quote Originally Posted by justin_amador View Post
    What if it had been a deaf guy that didn't stop because he didn't hear them coming?
    If I was deaf, I wouldn't be doing an activity that requires hearing or eyes in the back of my head.

  90. #90
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    If I was deaf, I wouldn't be doing an activity that requires hearing or eyes in the back of my head.
    You might, but it wouldn't be for long.....

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1
    I WROTE A LETTER !!!

    Chris Zirkle, Deputy Director
    Open Space Division
    Park and Recreation Department
    202 "C" Street, 5th Floor (MS 5D)
    San Diego, CA 92101

    Dear Mr. Zirkle:

    Please make every effort to allow residents of Carmel Valley to continue to use the Del Mar Mesa preserve for recreational activities, such as hiking, biking, and horse back riding on well-maintained trails.

    It is beneficial for residents to have access to the preserve:
    * residents enjoy the beauty of the canyon
    * health of residents is improved by hiking, bicycling, and horseback riding
    * commuting by bicycle reduces traffic on already congested roads
    * reduction in illegal camping and migrants in the canyons
    * less marijuana farming, and other illicit activities in the canyon

    Lately (July 2013), Department of Fish and Game is preventing residents from using much of the trail system in Del Mar Mesa Preserve. Why are we being denied access to land that already has an approved trail system?

    I was surprised to find armed state Department of Fish and Game wardens patrolling the area and citing hikers and bikers. I realize that there are fenced off areas of the preserve, but the officers were citing anyone who was not on the main fire road that travels north / south through the preserve.

  92. #92
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,623
    ^^^Thank you. Now if only the other 900 people who read this do the same. Thank you for your effort. May not seem like much but it is a big deal. There is a full court press on between here and Mission Trails right now.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  93. #93
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by recitio View Post
    You sound like one of those IMBA fools.

    How do you think all of those skateparks got built? Lots of reasons, but one is leverage: City planners know that if they don't provide an outlet for the skaters, the kids will "damage" all of their pretty stairs and curbs. What leverage have you got?

    Very few MB groups take this approach, but they seem to get what they want:

    How the first legal dedicated DH trail system was built in the US
    OK....I only just now watched the video Recitio posted a link to, and it really does have a lot of parallels to our situation in DMM and MTRP. An organized, concerted effort, maybe with some outside help from IMBA, seems like the way to salvage at least some of these trails. I know Tunnel 4 is proposed in the plan, and personally I don't see why the rim trail to the west can't be regarded as sustainable, along with the switchback trail down that people have different names for.

    I don't ride nearly as much out at MTRP as some of you do, but probably something along that order could be worked out as well.

    Regardless of whether you think the actions recently are the result of a far-left wing or far-rightwing conspiracy, some reality-based thinking is in order here if anything but further suppression is going to occur.

    Unless, of course, the City, and the State go bankrupt and can no longer pay for rangers and officers to patrol out there for just the sake of asserting their authority. But I don't think any of us really wants to see that...the other effects would be rather....extreme, I think. And I for one have had enough of extreme for one lifetime already.

    It's time for me to sit down and bust out a few letters to Whom it May Concern....

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    6
    Hey guys, first post here. Stumbled upon this thread looking for info on the Tunnels via google. I was up in the area exploring yesterday, didnt see any rangers, or anyone for that fact and undoubtably passed that game camera on the way out.

    The biggest thing I noticed about exploring out there, was that the only areas that were trashed, disturbed or dumped on; were the access roads. The main fire road has huge ruts that only a truck would cause, the crater of a berm track by the Eucalyptus patch that looks like quads do in the desert, and all the dumped trash is next to the freeway and houses, in several areas.

    Thanks to those who posted up the links and addresses to the political contacts, I wil be sending a few emails and letters out as well.

  95. #95
    banned
    Reputation: random walk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,666
    ^^^Thank you.

    Don't take too many chances out there, it sounds like they're getting good at ambushing people.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    6
    Yeah, I knew of the closures, but not of the intensity recently, not worth it!

  97. #97
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Within 15 minutes of being up there on Tues. AM, a ranger truck showed up. Even though I stayed on the road, I think I tripped a remote movement sensor. The ranger kept his window rolled up and did not make eye contact, which these days is just fine with me.

  98. #98
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Within 15 minutes of being up there on Tues. AM, a ranger truck showed up. Even though I stayed on the road, I think I tripped a remote movement sensor. The ranger kept his window rolled up and did not make eye contact, which these days is just fine with me.
    what kind of police state is this... my goodness.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Forum Posting Rules
    e-bike sub-forum rules

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    6
    Email response from Chris:
    Mike, thanks for your interest in Del Mar Mesa trails planning. The area currently has no approved trails. The Open Space division is working on legitimizing access to some of the trails in Del Mar Mesa. We’ve held 19 public meetings on the trails plan with the next one scheduled for the City’s Planning Commission. Here’s a link to the last public meeting:
    http://www.sandiego.gov/parkandrecbo...gementplan.pdf
    As you can see from the report, not only does the City not own all of the land in the planning area, approval is ultimately subject to the US Fish and Wildlife Service and the California Dept of Fish and Wildlife because the area is in the City’s wildlife preserve. They have written us a letter (attached) which pertains specifically to Mission Trails Regional Park but this sentence pertains to Del Mar Mesa as well:
    The unauthorized construction and use of trails should be immediately addressed and effectively controlled prior to moving forward with plans to redesign or construct new trails in MTRP.

    Thanks, Chris

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    what kind of police state is this... my goodness.
    Unfortunately the kind that most people in this state voted for.They got what they deserved.

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. LPQ, Tunnels and Del Mar Mesa: Get Involved!
    By EBasil in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 999
    Last Post: 09-08-2015, 08:21 AM
  2. Del Mar Mesa TICKETS!!! $475 Beat in Court
    By Dan M in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 01-17-2014, 02:29 PM
  3. Mesa Liquor - Kearny Mesa
    By Klurejr in forum Beer Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-30-2012, 10:54 AM
  4. Lpq / tunnels / del mar mesa - emergency action needed
    By kevmortensen in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-20-2011, 12:41 PM
  5. 6-29-11 Tunnels + BBT......
    By beagledadi in forum Nevada
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-30-2011, 01:14 PM

Members who have read this thread: 4

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •