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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Do you have anything in the picture for size perspective? They look like pink pill bugs or "rolly-pollies".

    The rain or damp weather brings out all sorts of hidden creatures. I get lots of cone snails in my pool after a rain. Apparently the rain drives them to mass suicide by pool.
    I checked with my friend to get some sizes on them.
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  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I checked with my friend to get some sizes on them.
    I was thinking, I just assume you know how big brine shrimp are. If you don't they are small enough that you could probably hold 6-12 on the tip of your thumb, and they have what looks like no chitinous shell whatsoever.
    Perfect live food, for guppies and such.

  3. #203
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    His reply:

    "Under 1/4 inch I'll have get pics of live ones."
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Do you have anything in the picture for size perspective? They look like pink pill bugs or "rolly-pollies".

    The rain or damp weather brings out all sorts of hidden creatures. I get lots of cone snails in my pool after a rain. Apparently the rain drives them to mass suicide by pool.
    Those sound like another Rare and Endangered species to me.....Lemming Snails. If so, you better get ready for a visit from the F&W thugs. Your'e probably violating a State Law!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    His reply:

    "Under 1/4 inch I'll have get pics of live ones."
    That's very interesting...from what little I know about them, there is no way for them to crawl or hop on land, they just hatch from eggs in the soil of a vernal pool when it's flooded, live for a few days/weeks, and then die after reproducing and producing more eggs.

    All's I can think of is that the eggs, in very dry conditions might migrate from a strong wind to another area, but I don't know if that's possible.

  6. #206
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    "Lemming Snails."

  7. #207
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    Re: Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    I am not sure if anybody pointed this out, since I have not read all the pages here. But try to get aware of Agenda 21 and its real intend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I am not sure if anybody pointed this out, since I have not read all the pages here. But try to get aware of Agenda 21 and its real intend.
    Please .....it's been mentioned at least once or twice. For a conspiracy, you need look no further than our very own local oligarchs of the Developer variety. Oh yeah, and just in case you haven't heard, the USMC has become a bunch or rabid environmentalists!

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    That's very interesting...from what little I know about them, there is no way for them to crawl or hop on land, they just hatch from eggs in the soil of a vernal pool when it's flooded, live for a few days/weeks, and then die after reproducing and producing more eggs.

    All's I can think of is that the eggs, in very dry conditions might migrate from a strong wind to another area, but I don't know if that's possible.
    He found this and said this is exactly what they look like when alive:

    Fairy shrimp photo - Chirocephalus diaphanus - A6408 - ARKive

    Notice the info under habitat:
    This species inhabits temporary pools, ranging from ponds to muddy ruts, and shows a preference for sites that are subject to regular disturbance by vehicles, livestock, or ploughing (livestock also enrich the site with their dung). The fairy shrimp cannot co-exist with fish and has a broad tolerance of varying levels of temperature, oxygen levels and water chemistry

    I am no biologist, but that leads me to believe that having mountain bikers ride though puddles is good for them?
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    He found this and said this is exactly what they look like when alive:

    Fairy shrimp photo - Chirocephalus diaphanus - A6408 - ARKive

    Notice the info under habitat:



    I am no biologist, but that leads me to believe that having mountain bikers ride though puddles is good for them?



    I should think so, especially if said cyclists pause to 'relieve' themselves in the midst of one!

  11. #211
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    I am curious if anyone has brought this to the attention of those who claim the vernal pools need to be protected. Perhaps we are endangering the survival of this creature by preventing access to bikes and horses and foot traffic?
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  12. #212
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    Be careful.

    You may not be able to use your pool ever again if the right departments find out. How fun would that be? You go outside with your beer, towel, and significant other to enjoy your pool only to be greeted by an armed CDFW officer. Not only has he driven his truck though your garden you are under threat of arrest and given a summons for violating the Endangered Species Act.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Be careful.

    You may not be able to use your pool ever again if the right departments find out. How fun would that be? You go outside with your beer, towel, and significant other to enjoy your pool only to be greeted by an armed CDFW officer. Not only has he driven his truck though your garden you are under threat of arrest and given a summons for violating the Endangered Species Act.
    As I mentioned before, was not my pool, one that a friend of mine services on his pool route. he recently got into Riding and I told him about the shrimp shutting down tunnels and parts of the del mar mesa and he told me he sees them after every rain at some of his customers in the Rancho Santa Fe area.

    I think it would be hilarious if the CDFW tried to break into someones yard to protect them. I imagine that would not go down well in the public eye, especially considering so many who live in Rancho Santa Fe have money and access to lawyers.
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  14. #214
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    Ticket - is it possible to beat?

    Has anyone successfully beat the ticket in court recently?

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond_PQ View Post
    Has anyone successfully beat the ticket in court recently?
    Or have been given a ticket lately?
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  16. #216
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    Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    I'd like to know this as well. I utilized my one time 30 day extension in hopes of finding out if it is worth my time to face the judge or just pay the fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcemkr View Post
    I'd like to know this as well. I utilized my one time 30 day extension in hopes of finding out if it is worth my time to face the judge or just pay the fine.
    Face the judge...

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    Face the judge...

    My concern is the stories I have heard where the judge slapped a bigger fine on the individual, albeit this was a year ago. Curious how things have gone with this recent round of enforcement.

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    I highly recommend going.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dseybert View Post
    I highly recommend going.
    Someone here must have more insight than these cryptic messages. Anyone know of or has personally gone to "face the man?".

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    I saw a new "game camera" installed outside the gate to the eucalyptus grove. It's unclear to me why someone insists on placing a perfectly good camera in a public place. It has no identification on it and is as good as lost property.

    No new truck tracks in the dust.

    As to the ticketing thing. I reached out to a local attorney with experience in CDFW citations. Each case is different, but he can explain the ins and outs of the procedure and tactics he can employ to either lessen the citation or get it dismissed. Having someone at your side at the hearing is especially vital if you got more than a ticket (i.e. bike impounded or misdemeanor for riding away). If you don't have representation, the judge just sides with the officer and cleans your clock. As the old saying goes, "he who represents himself has a fool for a client."

    It doesn't cost you anything to call him up and ask a few questions.

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  22. #222
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    A little bird told me there is a game camera loosely zip-tied to a tree about half way down T2 on the right hand side. A strong wind blew through the area and flipped the camera around so it's no longer facing the trail but it's still there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    A little bird told me there is a game camera loosely zip-tied to a tree about half way down T2 on the right hand side. A strong wind blew through the area and flipped the camera around so it's no longer facing the trail but it's still there...
    I hope you are not accessing T2 from the top since the only way is from the enclosed mitigation land. Did you mean T3 (rockinghorse)? Either way, it gets expensive real quick if you are unlucky enough to have the breeze blow the wrong way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    A little bird told me there is a game camera loosely zip-tied to a tree about half way down T2 on the right hand side. A strong wind blew through the area and flipped the camera around so it's no longer facing the trail but it's still there...
    Those are like $300 cameras, you know. CDFG doesn't skimp when it comes to investing our tax dollars in equipment!

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcemkr View Post
    Someone here must have more insight than these cryptic messages. Anyone know of or has personally gone to "face the man?".
    The person I know just paid the ticket, but I say fight it. Everyone should fight it.

  26. #226
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    I'd say at the very least, go in and plead guilty with explanation (if you have a decent explanation).

  27. #227
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    So where are the new trails???

    Just curious, I saw this pic on DT and was reminded that "they" are going to build new trails at DMM. for multi use. Well, where are they?

    Or does the city (lack of) planners consider funneling everybody onto the existing fire roads our "new" trail system.
    Tickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-image.jpg

  28. #228
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    Re: Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    Quote Originally Posted by pcemkr View Post
    Someone here must have more insight than these cryptic messages. Anyone know of or has personally gone to "face the man?".
    I personally have knowledge of an instance where a $475 ticket became a $50 ticket just by the simple act of showing up for court. Not saying they all go that way, but it does happen.

  29. #229
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    The sad truth is the developer already has installed them to their specifications. It runs from De Vino Ct over to Carmel Mountain Rd. Typical development style. " We have miles of trails*"





    * 8 foot wide DG sidewalks along side the road, but hey, we added wooden rails to make it feel like a trail
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    The sad truth is the developer already has installed them to their specifications. It runs from De Vino Ct over to Carmel Mountain Rd. Typical development style. " We have miles of trails*"

    Sad but true. But the way things are going with CDFW, that might end up being the only trail in LPQ and DMM! After all, they may determine that 'mitigation' for Pardee's development as wall as the 'Preserve' require more 'pristine' habitat DMM alone, and close all of LPQ'S trails, too!
    Good Times will REALLY roll, then!



    * 8 foot wide DG sidewalks along side the road, but hey, we added wooden rails to make it feel like a trail
    Sad but true. But the way things are going with CDFW, that might end up being the only trail in LPQ and DMM! After all, they may determine that 'mitigation' for Pardee's development as well as the 'Preserve' require more 'pristine' habitat than DMM alone, and close all of LPQ'S trails, too!
    Good Times will REALLY roll, then!

  31. #231
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  32. #232
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    Any updates.

    Just checking to see if anybody has ridden around there lately. Is the CFng F n G still patrolling and issues tickets out there?

    I was wanting to ride out there this weekend, but prefer not to get a Christmas present courtesy of the state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BikingScott View Post
    Just checking to see if anybody has ridden around there lately. Is the CFng F n G still patrolling and issues tickets out there?

    I was wanting to ride out there this weekend, but prefer not to get a Christmas present courtesy of the state.
    Give the trails a chance to dry out from the rain today and tomorrow. DMM and PQ do not handle rain well. La Costa would be a better choice.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikingScott View Post
    Just checking to see if anybody has ridden around there lately. Is the CFng F n G still patrolling and issues tickets out there?

    I was wanting to ride out there this weekend, but prefer not to get a Christmas present courtesy of the state.
    Tunnels is still officially closed, everyone reading this should stay off the closed trails regardless of if it is being patrolled. The more people who violate the closure, the harder it is for those who are trying to get it opened back up, through the correct channels, even if it is taking a long time. Don't make their job harder.
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  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Tunnels is still officially closed, everyone reading this should stay off the closed trails regardless of if it is being patrolled. The more people who violate the closure, the harder it is for those who are trying to get it opened back up, through the correct channels, even if it is taking a long time. Don't make their job harder.
    I am sure he was only referring to the fire roads that are still currently open. But as previously posted it is raining a bit and it is supposed to rain more tonight and tomorrow. This means the glorious and incredibly fragile vernal pools will be filling up and Franky Landis will be up there on his volunteer patrol edumicating people. But in all seriousness, please do give the trails a few days to dry out. La Costa was pretty dry prior to the rains so it should be ok to ride after a day or so.
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  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by dseybert View Post
    I personally have knowledge of an instance where a $475 ticket became a $50 ticket just by the simple act of showing up for court. Not saying they all go that way, but it does happen.
    I talked to a guy who got his $475 ticket dismissed for showing up at the arraignment. He says he got lucky.

  37. #237
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    Not just showing up, but show up dressed well, a Suit and tie is preferable. Show remorse and have respect for the Judge. All those things will swing in your favor anytime you have to go to court, even for a speeding ticket.
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  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Not just showing up, but show up dressed well, a Suit and tie is preferable. Show remorse and have respect for the Judge. All those things will swing in your favor anytime you have to go to court, even for a speeding ticket.
    True that!

    Suit and tie. At the very least, a dress shirt and tie. That should put you head and shoulders above everyone else who shows up in a t-shirt or hoodie.

    Address the judge or commissioner properly. Say "your honor" every chance you get, like you're in a court room drama.

    DO NOT PISS OFF THE BAILIFF.

  39. #239
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    Have riders been given tickets on weekdays or just weekends?

  40. #240
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    So are DFW wardens still hanging out up there in a truck?

    I imagine the fairy shrimp didn't get their puddles this year without the rain.

  41. #241
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    I would have to say no BUT the rangers can/ will ticket and its still off limits.
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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by other View Post
    Have riders been given tickets on weekdays or just weekends?
    Both
    They monitored traffic patterns and were there during the busy times which was afternoons and weekends
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  43. #243
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    And I assume the cameras are still out there by the gate leading into the eucalyptus grove?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scepticshock View Post
    And I assume the cameras are still out there by the gate leading into the eucalyptus grove?
    No, they removed them, the found out what they needed to know which was the best times to sit there so they could try and bust people. Maybe they moved them elsewhere but I don't go there anymore.
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    Where exactly is Del Mar Mesa? Is hiking also prohibited?

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce in SoCal View Post
    Where exactly is Del Mar Mesa? Is hiking also prohibited?
    Here: https://www.google.com/maps?q=32.946...num=1&t=h&z=18

    This is the stand of Eucalyptus trees, which is roughly the center of the area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce in SoCal View Post
    Is hiking also prohibited?
    Yes. Everything is prohibited in unauthorized areas.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckanado View Post
    Here: https://www.google.com/maps?q=32.946...num=1&t=h&z=18

    This is the stand of Eucalyptus trees, which is roughly the center of the area.
    Don't you love that they named the street leading into the McMansion development at the top of Powerline "The Preserve Way?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by random walk View Post
    Yes. Everything is prohibited in unauthorized areas.



    Don't you love that they named the street leading into the McMansion development at the top of Powerline "The Preserve Way?"
    The folks who own those McMansions sure do love it. They view the CDFW goons as their private minions. I'm sure they feel quite good about that.

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    I don't think the park rangers and tickets are going to stop any time soon.

    I spoke with a friend-of-a-friend who is warden, and he said that a non-profit with deep pockets is behind all this nonsense

    According to him, the group (which he would not name) came in and is paying for all the manpower and supplies needed to keep people out of the tunnels.

    I would love to know the name of the group, and what their true motive is.

    Perhaps someone could call the fish and game, and get to the bottom of it

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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqdad View Post
    I don't think the park rangers and tickets are going to stop any time soon.

    I spoke with a friend-of-a-friend who is warden, and he said that a non-profit with deep pockets is behind all this nonsense

    According to him, the group (which he would not name) came in and is paying for all the manpower and supplies needed to keep people out of the tunnels.

    I would love to know the name of the group, and what their true motive is.

    Perhaps someone could call the fish and game, and get to the bottom of it
    If someone who gets a ticket wants to conduct discovery to assist in the defense of the ticket, they have the right to do so...and to discover the identity of any organization funding the effort.

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    Thanks for identifying where this is. I certainly won't go there.

    Next question: On the ariel map, I see what looks like a network of trails west of there and west of Carmel Country Rd and labeled Carmel Mountain. What is the story for that area? Legal or not legal? If not legal, I won't bother visiting the area.

  52. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqdad View Post
    I don't think the park rangers and tickets are going to stop any time soon.

    I spoke with a friend-of-a-friend who is warden, and he said that a non-profit with deep pockets is behind all this nonsense

    According to him, the group (which he would not name) came in and is paying for all the manpower and supplies needed to keep people out of the tunnels.

    I would love to know the name of the group, and what their true motive is.

    Perhaps someone could call the fish and game, and get to the bottom of it
    Ask frank, according to his note here, the California native Plant Society is working closely with CDFW. Or just email CNPS and ask them.

    Local residents react to stronger enforcement of Del Mar Mesa Preserve trails use - Del Mar Times | Del Mar Times

  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce in SoCal View Post
    Thanks for identifying where this is. I certainly won't go there.

    Next question: On the ariel map, I see what looks like a network of trails west of there and west of Carmel Country Rd and labeled Carmel Mountain. What is the story for that area? Legal or not legal? If not legal, I won't bother visiting the area.
    It is the Carmel Mountain Preserve. You can ride it in and link it to PQ from the Wagon Wheel/Wiamea intersection heading north up and under Carmel Mountain Rd. There are some horse trails and hiking trails that are off limits but they are marked. It certainly is not a destination ride but you can add a few extra miles and feet you your normal outing.

    Carmel Mountain Preserver Trail Map
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  54. #254
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    I rode under 56 near the the Camino Del Sur exit yesterday came to an open gate and no trespassing sign about 1/4 mile south (map below). Is there any way to get to Penasquitos from 56 offroad legally?

    Tickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-56.jpg

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    you were in Mcgonigle Canyon. it is completely legal to ride there. to get to PQ legally, you would climb up that fire road to the south. Once on the Mesa you would follow the fire road east and then south down into the canyon and up the insanely steep and long fire road.
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  56. #256
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    Thanks! So just to be clear, I'm diverting up the trail on the left (green line in map below)? Continuing down the fire-road is posted as "No Trespassing".

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  57. #257
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    Yes that is correct. The "no trespassing" is a relic of the farming days. The trail is parts of the community master trail plan. You have nothing to worry about. 100% legal, no grey areas.
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  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Yes that is correct. The "no trespassing" is a relic of the farming days. The trail is parts of the community master trail plan. You have nothing to worry about. 100% legal, no grey areas.
    Makes me wonder if that sign should be removed to avoid confusion.
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  59. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Makes me wonder if that sign should be removed to avoid confusion.
    It should. It confused me. It says something about the land being owner by a builder, not farmer. I had just passed a ranger 5 minutes earlier, so I just turned back. Next time I'll take a photo and post it here.

  60. #260
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    Re: Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    I do it all the time. Completely legal. Never had any problems there.

  61. #261
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    I'm looking for the jump trail in the pq canyon. I herd it's up near powerlines, and tunnels. Where is it exactly? And is it still legal to ride?

  62. #262
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    Sorry, but not legal, and not advertised on forums.

  63. #263
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    how much is the ticket if you get caught?

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    If you have video you should be able to find it on your own...

    IF you do don't talk about it.

    Sadly, there are NO legal jumps in San Diego.

  65. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.A.M. View Post
    If you have video you should be able to find it on your own...

    IF you do don't talk about it.

    Sadly, there are NO legal jumps in San Diego.
    Not even Ted Williams area on top?

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    Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

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    Last edited by pcemkr; 05-14-2014 at 04:00 PM.

  67. #267
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    PQ Jumps are sick!

  68. #268
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    There are fresh laminated "trail closed" signs here:
    https://goo.gl/maps/XcxgR

    These trails are so fun, and it is so dumb that they are closed.
    These are mature trails. Dry and rocky, no mud or vernal pools in sight. How can riding them be bad for the environment?

    What about the trails in the woods on the North slopes of Del Mar Mesa, which you can access from McGonigle Canyon? Are those all illegal, too? I did not see any "trail closed" signs there.

    Who knows what is the latest on the Del Mar Mesa trails situation?
    What can I do to get involved? Groups to join, letters to send, meetings to attend?

  69. #269
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    Appreciate the interest but the DMM ship sailed many years ago. The city has signed off on the enviromental studies and it is now it is just a waiting game. It will be far less than you hope for. I invite you to attend the LPCP CAC meetings since that is the starting point for a lot of your interests. I will post the dates and times when I find out they are officially happening.
    One word of caution. While tempting to ride, everything on the mesa other than the beloved fire road is still considered tresspassing. CDFW is periodically ticketing up there. That means it is a crapshoot. I don't know how frequently but they have the authority to ticket any land if access is not legally allowed. This means they can patrol outside of the pefectly preserved and pristine fenced sanctuary they are tasked with maintaining. Hopefully we will have sanctioned access back after the short little break we took to get the quick and expedited studies done. Kind of like we never left, right?
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  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyg2001 View Post
    Who knows what is the latest on the Del Mar Mesa trails situation?
    What can I do to get involved? Groups to join, letters to send, meetings to attend?

    If you want to get directly involved in SDMBA Advocacy activities, come to the monthly meeting or e-mail advocacy@sdmba.com.

    Sign up for SDMBA Trail News

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  71. #271
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    Yeah, I guess DMM is a write-off.

    I realize that this current development is just the East end of T1, but it is probably just the start.

    DMM turning into a freeway

  72. #272
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    The land is the Rhodes development. It has always been slated for housing and commercial. Right now the city is requiring a complete environmental study to be done. The biggest threat to the tunnels is the east end of tunnel one. Camino del Sur will be pushed through to Park Village. It has always been part of the master plan. The biggest issue is the "bridging" of Deer Canyon where Tunnel 1 ends at the east side. Right now it is supposed to be a dirt fill. That means the end of tunnel one will end at the bottom of a 30 food dirt wall with no access. An easement was requested and the developer is fundamentally against it. Go to the PQ Library meeting. It will be very enlightening.

    As far as writing off the DMM, don't...

    I spoke to Myra Herrmann on July 31 about the Del Mar Mesa and the pending release of the Mitigated Negative Declaration (MND) for final public hearings. She was very pleasant and happy to share as much as she knew. She is not in a position to give a timeline but here are a few points we covered:

    MND Draft Comments - Most of the outstanding items are not critical, but the Coastal Commission staff comments have required City staff to do some additional research specific to the Carmel Valley (Neighborhood 8A) community plan amendment part of the process and issues related to the Local Coastal Plan (LCP). Once an LCP is adopted, the plans are expedited without need for a lengthy review. While the Carmel Valley community has one, it was never formally adopted so the review was needed by the Coastal Commission.

    Coastal Commission – Like most of the land in the area, there are multiple agencies that oversee it. The coastal areas are no different. Some areas fall under City Coastal Zones while others are covered by the Coastal Commission. Part of the delay in the Coastal Commission’s decision making is an employee, relatively new to the position, is playing cautious and following the letter of the law. While there is little chance it will derail the process, it is just taking longer than anticipated.

    Errors in the MND – These resulted in a copy/paste error on the city’s part and impacted the Carmel Mountain preserve. While they were highlighted by multiple people, the issue was blown out of proportion and will only minimally impact the release. Essentially it just needed to be edited. None of the errors impacted the end decision.

    Carmel Mountain and DMM preserves packaged together – This was done because to help expedite the process. Since both had to go through a nearly identical approval process, it was easier, both in time and paperwork, to keep them bundled. The important thing to know that neither is tied to the other preserve. If there were issues with Carmel Mountain preserve it would not hinder the forward progress of the DMM.

    Trails Approval Process – This was the most refreshing part of the conversation. I have always been a little leery of the trail map, seeing it as possible/proposed but not there yet. Myra explained to me that these are the trails approved by the City Parks department and will be the trails. The only thing that could hinder approval was issues under the MND. As stated above, comments received were not critical to the trails plan. Also helping is the fact the trails already exist so no building permits are needed.

    I am still waiting to hear from Chris Zirkle on an official timeline but at least the information learned from Myra at the Development Services Department helped clear up some of the questions/concerns recently raised.
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    ^^Thanks again for all your effort on this, BB. You are fighting the good fight, one that I kind of gave up on over a decade ago.
    Good luck with Czar Zirkle!

  74. #274
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    FROM SDMBA:

    CalTrans is now in the process of closing the Rim Trail (Red ST) that goes from T4 to T3. Wire fencing, brush, and piles of mulch are being placed on the trail tread as of Wednesday.
    Someone is saying a big F-you to those that demanded some sort of an East/West Connector using this trail, and to the bike community in general.
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  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    FROM SDMBA:

    CalTrans is now in the process of closing the Rim Trail (Red ST) that goes from T4 to T3. Wire fencing, brush, and piles of mulch are being placed on the trail tread as of Wednesday.
    Someone is saying a big F-you to those that demanded some sort of an East/West Connector using this trail, and to the bike community in general.
    ...and who said there has been no progress. Negative progress counts, too.

    Seriously, though, that really sucks. A stupider way to spend our tax dollars does not exist.

  76. #276
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    Why on earth is Cal Trans doing this?
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  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Why on earth is Cal Trans doing this?
    I think they are in the business of building road and bridges at our expense

    I'm sure no vermin or endangered plants will be injured during their work.
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  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    I think they are in the business of building road and bridges at our expense

    I'm sure no vermin or endangered plants will be injured during their work.
    Exactly... What do they know about habitat restoration?.... The fact that an agency that is supposed to be fixing our congested roadways is going out and closing down trails is hard to swallow.
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  79. #279
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    Take a look at Sandag funding and the back and forth between them and Caltrans on various projects. A study in obfuscation between them and other agencies etc both public, private, local govts, and various proposition moneys. You'll probably find a line item somewhere buried deep for this work in Sandag's budget, some of it is sort of quid pro quo for building up freeways, mitigation of sorts. Ran into it when they put up the fences in Calavera. The other neat thing is they pretty much always exempt themselves from CEQA regs, which wire fences generally don't meet.

  80. #280
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    1. Build houses on the mesa and wipe out trails-check
    2. close remaining trails and keep everyone out so they will go elsewhere to ride-check
    3. Try to find endangered habitat to further keep people out-check
    4. Delay for years so people go elsewhere to ride-check
    5. Write tickets to those that dare to venture back in there again-check
    6. Further delay trail plans-check
    7. Deny a east/west connector-check
    8. Use Federal funds to further close down trails-check
    9. Build houses on this endangered land- soon to be a check here
    10. Full of total BS-check and double check
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  81. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    1. Build houses on the mesa and wipe out trails-check
    2. close remaining trails and keep everyone out so they will go elsewhere to ride-check
    3. Try to find endangered habitat to further keep people out-check
    4. Delay for years so people go elsewhere to ride-check
    5. Write tickets to those that dare to venture back in there again-check
    6. Further delay trail plans-check
    7. Deny a east/west connector-check
    8. Use Federal funds to further close down trails-check
    9. Build houses on this endangered land- soon to be a check here
    10. Full of total BS-check and double check
    Well, fire off a congratulatory note to the city council, the county supervisors, and all of the city employees who collected salaries whilst asleep on the job.

    You don't need to congratulate the developers. After all, they already have the money, in the bank. Offshore, most likely.

  82. #282
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    Anybody know what was going on up there yesterday? I saw the gate open thats usually locked, and heard the sound of power tools on the other side from the tunnel 5 area.

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    I don't know, but I'll ask. On the level of presumption, it could be Rangers or other crew in there, installing signeage or such.

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    The gate was open yesterday also plus the little connector from the fire road to that trail that passes T5 (or whatever that winding trail name is...) was closed with brush. It looked like some trail work was done preparing for rain, if we ever get some
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    The gate was open yesterday also plus the little connector from the fire road to that trail that passes T5 (or whatever that winding trail name is...) was closed with brush. It looked like some trail work was done preparing for rain, if we ever get some
    It's more likely, IMO, that they are taking further steps to close the trails up there, with fencing and brushing them over.

    Making the temporary closure a permanent one.

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    It's more likely, IMO, that they are taking further steps to close the trails up there, with fencing and brushing them over.

    Making the temporary closure a permanent one.
    They need to make sure everyone is out of there so they don't get hurt by the bulldozers
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  87. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    They need to make sure everyone is out of there so they don't get hurt by the bulldozers
    I don't think they do. Since mountain bikers are considered to be the "new insurgents" they get to treat us just the same as those 'Palis who stay in their homes and get bulldozed over.

    After all, progress must go on.

  88. #288
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    I wouldn't doubt that there is brush all over Tunnel 5 too. I heard what sounded like a chain saw coming from down below. Who knows what they have planned for the other ones. If anybody has any news please report!

  89. #289
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    Wouldn't that be a hoot. In order to protect the oaks from you we are cutting them down to block your path and keep you out.

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uly View Post
    Wouldn't that be a hoot. In order to protect the oaks from you we are cutting them down to block your path and keep you out.
    Yep. A cyclist went for a ride up there this afternoon; he said that the singletrack spur that heads westbound from the main fire road towards the T5 approach/rim trail is being filled up with brush. That appears to be the only change at this time.

    Also, the Rhodes Crossing construction site has been fenced off recently; hilariously, signs have been hung on the fence saying "Keep out: Habitat restoration in progress. Trespassers will be prosecuted."

    I wonder who the genius at City Hall is who thought up that one?

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    Don't forget folks, the developers (ie big unions) own most (if not all) the politicians in this city. Hence the reason they are willing to look the other way when it comes to building new homes out in there so-called protected areas.

    As for the chainsaws, I suspect they are clear cutting for fire prevention (or so they claim), then using the clippings to block trails. Hence killing two birds with one stone (pun intended). Keeping dirty rotten mountain bikers out while preserving the native habitat with clear cutting and saying they are doing fire prevention.

    Sounds like they have deputized Cal-Trans as well (another big union shop) to do their dirty work.

  92. #292
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    So, for what, about 8 years now we have been told to respect trail closures so that a trails plan could be approved and we would finally get some legal local singletrack to ride. Now we have more singletrack being closed. Classic. Meanwhile the singletrack in the canyon is off limits to bikes so horses can ride it. Shouldn't those large animals be on the fire roads where it is safe?
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  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    So, for what, about 8 years now we have been told to respect trail closures so that a trails plan could be approved and we would finally get some legal local singletrack to ride. Now we have more singletrack being closed. Classic. Meanwhile the singletrack in the canyon is off limits to bikes so horses can ride it. Shouldn't those large animals be on the fire roads where it is safe?
    Horses on singletrack is perfectly safe.....especially when there are no mtn bikers on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjphillips View Post
    Don't forget folks, the developers (ie big unions) own most (if not all) the politicians in this city. Hence the reason they are willing to look the other way when it comes to building new homes out in there so-called protected areas.

    As for the chainsaws, I suspect they are clear cutting for fire prevention (or so they claim), then using the clippings to block trails. Hence killing two birds with one stone (pun intended). Keeping dirty rotten mountain bikers out while preserving the native habitat with clear cutting and saying they are doing fire prevention.

    Sounds like they have deputized Cal-Trans as well (another big union shop) to do their dirty work.
    The only problem with your post is that most of the developers use scab illegal migrant labor for pennies on the dollar to do as much of the work there as possible.
    Just look on ANY construction site just about anywhere in SD, and then tell me which language you heard being shouted out the most.
    It ain't English.

    For some reason, so far, the rim trail has been spared the fate of that short connector. Or so I heard. Also, at the west end of LPQ, the Alpha project wast out there yesterday......again, these are not union people, more like the SoCal version of southern chain-gang people, doing vital work.
    They are making the northside trail back into a proper two-truck fire road. And they had an LPQ ranger out there, overseeing the operation, and watching the mtb riders to see which way they picked to go.

    They will never learn their lesson.

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    Explains why San Diego is a sanctuary city.

  96. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjphillips View Post
    Explains why San Diego is a sanctuary city.
    It doesn't explain why LPQ continues to be the province of a very elite, very wealthy minority of the citizenry, considering that it is a taxpayer-supported park.

    Equestrians can go virtually anywhere: bikes have to stick to just a handful of trails.

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    It doesn't explain why LPQ continues to be the province of a very elite, very wealthy minority of the citizenry, considering that it is a taxpayer-supported park.

    Equestrians can go virtually anywhere: bikes have to stick to just a handful of trails.
    I only ride LPQ on occasion, but when I do I enjoy the Single Track. Fireroad is for Family walks, Horses and automobiles. Single Track is for hikers and bikers.
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    Ride every bit of it while you can until they pave it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I only ride LPQ on occasion, but when I do I enjoy the Single Track. Fireroad is for Family walks, Horses and automobiles. Single Track is for hikers and bikers.
    In a perfect world. Not LPQ.

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    I think it has always been the case that horses are allowed on the trails (long before bikes came onto the scene) as most people "believe" horses are not destructive t the environment but somehow mountain biker (as well as motorcycles) are.

    The wealthy pay their fair share of taxes too. They have as much right to be out on the trails as the next guy whether they ride a horse or a mountain bike.

    I think horses and bikes can co-exist peacefully and not effect the environment. The problem seems to be the illegal trail builders that violate the laws and make all of us (mountain bikers) look bad.

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