Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 101 to 200 of 586
  1. #101
    ocd
    ocd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by The BrownMike View Post
    Email response from Chris:
    They have written us a letter (attached) which pertains specifically to Mission Trails Regional Park but this sentence pertains to Del Mar Mesa as well:
    The unauthorized construction and use of trails should be immediately addressed and effectively controlled prior to moving forward with plans to redesign or construct new trails in MTRP.

    Thanks, Chris
    lets see the letter.

  2. #102
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    "Effectively controlled" sounds like a reference contingent to the badged thugs being successful in suppressing the tax-paying citizenry.
    I kinda figured it would come to this.

  3. #103
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    lets see the letter.
    It was a PDF so I just took screenshots...

    Tickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-screen-shot-2013-09-14-3.57.05-pm.pngTickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-screen-shot-2013-09-14-3.57.20-pm.pngTickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-screen-shot-2013-09-14-3.57.29-pm.pngTickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-screen-shot-2013-09-14-3.57.41-pm.pngTickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-screen-shot-2013-09-14-3.57.50-pm.png

  4. #104
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    I bet they will be happy to accept help to 'repair' (i.e. eradicate) the trails out there. I just hope the SDMBA/IMBA does not step up and volunteer to pitch in.

  5. #105
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    106
    I love fireroads.

  6. #106
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,902
    So basically they are saying that the city must stamp out all illegal trail use in both areas before a trails plan that will eliminate any "redundant" trails. I assume the redundant trails will be all singletrack. So why the **** would I want to stop riding those areas knowing that they never intend to allow the legal use of those "redundant" trails? After reading about the pending actions in MTRP I decided to ride there today. Seriously, that is some of the best singletrack in San Diego. It seems to me this city is determined to eat itself. The economic impact of attacking the mountain bike community here will be severely detrimental. I for one am totally fed up and I have decided to leave, I will be relocating to another state that has embraced mountain biking and the money it brings to small communities.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  7. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Skeeter97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    487
    See you in AZ

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 4

  8. #108
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    958
    Where exactly is Del Mar Mesa? I've got plans to visit SD County.

  9. #109
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,027
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    So basically they are saying that the city must stamp out all illegal trail use in both areas before a trails plan that will eliminate any "redundant" trails. I assume the redundant trails will be all singletrack. So why the **** would I want to stop riding those areas knowing that they never intend to allow the legal use of those "redundant" trails? After reading about the pending actions in MTRP I decided to ride there today. Seriously, that is some of the best singletrack in San Diego. It seems to me this city is determined to eat itself. The economic impact of attacking the mountain bike community here will be severely detrimental. I for one am totally fed up and I have decided to leave, I will be relocating to another state that has embraced mountain biking and the money it brings to small communities.
    I moved from SD to North Carolina a little over a year ago, and have never looked back. Good riding and a great trail advocay group, good people, great craft brew scene, lower cost of living, the list goes on.

  10. #110
    ocd
    ocd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by The BrownMike View Post
    It was a PDF so I just took screenshots...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2013-09-14 at 3.57.05 PM.png 
Views:	183 
Size:	229.6 KB 
ID:	831952
    Seems they're confused between park and preserve. In the end though, if adequate trails would have existed, none of this would have ever taken place. Can't say people haven't been told over and over and over again.

  11. #111
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    I moved from SD to North Carolina a little over a year ago, and have never looked back. Good riding and a great trail advocay group, good people, great craft brew scene, lower cost of living, the list goes on.
    I am moving to Charlotte. Can't wait. I will miss being able to ride year round but I guess I will just invest in cold weather riding gear and rain gear. San Diego has some great riding but it sucks having to drive so far to get to the good stuff. Trails are becoming overcrowded. I remember when they delayed the DMM trails plan in 2009. I expected it would take about 1 year for them to come to an agreement and either approve or disapprove. It is now close to the end of 2013 and they have done nothing. Now they say the illegal use must be dealt with BEFORE they will consider any proposals. Maybe I am just ignorant but it sounds like the revamped DFG or whatever they call themselves these days just wants the park rangers to do the dirty work. Either way we as taxpayers get to pay them to keep us OFF the trails and for what? To preserve the pristine, former bombing ranges and migrant dumping grounds? We have done more to preserve DMM than anyone by keeping the riff raff out and cleaning up.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  12. #112
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,027
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    I am moving to Charlotte. Can't wait. I will miss being able to ride year round but I guess I will just invest in cold weather riding gear and rain gear. San Diego has some great riding but it sucks having to drive so far to get to the good stuff. Trails are becoming overcrowded. I remember when they delayed the DMM trails plan in 2009. I expected it would take about 1 year for them to come to an agreement and either approve or disapprove. It is now close to the end of 2013 and they have done nothing. Now they say the illegal use must be dealt with BEFORE they will consider any proposals. Maybe I am just ignorant but it sounds like the revamped DFG or whatever they call themselves these days just wants the park rangers to do the dirty work. Either way we as taxpayers get to pay them to keep us OFF the trails and for what? To preserve the pristine, former bombing ranges and migrant dumping grounds? We have done more to preserve DMM than anyone by keeping the riff raff out and cleaning up.
    You will be surprised, as I was. Yeah, you will need some jacket's and a base layer, but it is not bad. The riding here is year round. You will have some trails not to far a way, not to mention all the goodness in Pisgah. Oh, throw your so cal tires a way. They do not work out here on the roots and rocks when it is damp.

    Check out tarheeltrailblazers.com and Charlottemtnbike.com

  13. #113
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    So basically they are saying that the city must stamp out all illegal trail use in both areas before a trails plan that will eliminate any "redundant" trails. I assume the redundant trails will be all singletrack. So why the **** would I want to stop riding those areas knowing that they never intend to allow the legal use of those "redundant" trails? After reading about the pending actions in MTRP I decided to ride there today. Seriously, that is some of the best singletrack in San Diego. It seems to me this city is determined to eat itself. The economic impact of attacking the mountain bike community here will be severely detrimental. I for one am totally fed up and I have decided to leave, I will be relocating to another state that has embraced mountain biking and the money it brings to small communities.

    I certainly can't fault you for leaving: it seems like the bicycle-haters have succeeded. Now they have badged, gun-toting, taser-bearing "Wildlife Officers" to "protect the habitat" from the scourge of singletrack trails. Look for them soon in a local open space park near you. They're comin', and they mean 'bidness!

    If I could figure out a way/ place to get out of San Diego to, I would. This county, and the entire state have been far too crowded for the last 20 years or so.

  14. #114
    Master of the Face Plant
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    2,902
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    I certainly can't fault you for leaving: it seems like the bicycle-haters have succeeded. Now they have badged, gun-toting, taser-bearing "Wildlife Officers" to "protect the habitat" from the scourge of singletrack trails. Look for them soon in a local open space park near you. They're comin', and they mean 'bidness!

    If I could figure out a way/ place to get out of San Diego to, I would. This county, and the entire state have been far too crowded for the last 20 years or so.
    I think the bike haters successes will be short lived. Like in Marin where they effectively stamped out bikes on 98% of all singletrack but now the bikers have organized and trails are being built and opened up because of severe backlash against the anti-bike groups. My decision to leave is based mainly on the fact that my company allows me to do my job from anywhere. Moving to Charlotte will be like getting a $20,000 dollar a year raise. Housing alone will be 50% less.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
    ^^^Best Bike Shop of MTBR 2008^^^

  15. #115
    banned
    Reputation: random walk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,666
    When life gives you lemons...

    ...build up a CX/gravel-grinder and ride the shit out of the fire roads.

  16. #116
    Binned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    24,861
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    Moving to Charlotte will be like getting a $20,000 dollar a year raise. Housing alone will be 50% less.
    I see the pros but you must also include the cons or in this case, the con, which is a big one.

  17. #117
    ocd
    ocd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by random walk View Post
    When life gives you lemons...

    ...build up a CX/gravel-grinder and ride the shit out of the fire roads.
    this has been my thought exactly.

  18. #118
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,603
    Come on, come all. LPCP CAC meeting Thursday, 7:00 pm at the Canyonside Park Adobe. While we are two years too late, come see history made with board elections. Voice your opinions overr the DFG clampdown. The park rangers will be there. Be respectful but let them hear the voice of the community. They monitor these boards and know the displeasure. Show up and make an impression.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  19. #119
    Let's build one more
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    801
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Come on, come all. LPCP CAC meeting Thursday, 7:00 pm at the Canyonside Park Adobe. While we are two years too late, come see history made with board elections. Voice your opinions overr the DFG clampdown. The park rangers will be there. Be respectful but let them hear the voice of the community. They monitor these boards and know the displeasure. Show up and make an impression.
    BB- How come this issue isn't on the agenda?
    Also, will a SDBMA member be present to bring up the topic?
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti

  20. #120
    ocd
    ocd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by random walk View Post
    When life gives you lemons...

    ...build up a CX/gravel-grinder and ride the shit out of the fire roads.
    Actually, if EMFC see this, he will be kicking down doors to get orders back to san Diego and get on some of that gravel!!!

    Where are ya EMFC?

  21. #121
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EBasil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,089
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    BB- How come this issue isn't on the agenda?
    Also, will a SDBMA member be present to bring up the topic?
    I can answer those questions, as I am the person who sets that Agenda:

    --because there hasn't been any request by any of: an agency, the CAC members, the public ...for such an item.

    --yes, the SDMBA and Multiuse Trails Coalition are usually in attendance. The SDMBA rep is out of town, and so they're sending an alternate who happens to have great familiarity with the topics discussed within this forum thread.

    Clarification: as CAC Chair, I have requested City Staff to present their status of the "Del Mar Mesa Habitat Study" that's being used to stall the implementation of the 2011 trails plan, for over a year, repeatedly. City staff refuse to present or report to the public at the CAC meeting. That refusal takes the form of "not ready until next month" (over and over) or "can't be there that night" or other disingenuous bureaucratese that's designed to ensure the public has no opportunity to comment or observe the ongoing process. So, with that in mind, it's been "on the agenda" but doesn't happen to be this month.

    If you have something you'd like to convince the CAC members to discuss and consider as a body, please show up and be persuasive.

  22. #122
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil View Post
    I can answer those questions, as I am the person who sets that Agenda:

    --because there hasn't been any request by any of: an agency, the CAC members, the public ...for such an item.

    --yes, the SDMBA and Multiuse Trails Coalition are usually in attendance. The SDMBA rep is out of town, and so they're sending an alternate who happens to have great familiarity with the topics discussed within this forum thread.

    Clarification: as CAC Chair, I have requested City Staff to present their status of the "Del Mar Mesa Habitat Study" that's being used to stall the implementation of the 2011 trails plan, for over a year, repeatedly. City staff refuse to present or report to the public at the CAC meeting. That refusal takes the form of "not ready until next month" (over and over) or "can't be there that night" or other disingenuous bureaucratese that's designed to ensure the public has no opportunity to comment or observe the ongoing process. So, with that in mind, it's been "on the agenda" but doesn't happen to be this month.

    If you have something you'd like to convince the CAC members to discuss and consider as a body, please show up and be persuasive.

    In case any of you don't know, EBasil above, has put more blood, sweat, and tears into fighting the bicycle-haters in the LPQ/DMM area over the last 15 years than any two others I can think of, and I can think of quite a few. Almost singlehandedly, he was responsible for the re-opening of Cobbles and the North side trail in LPQ years ago. (Yes! it WAS illegal to ride a bicycle on ANY trail north of the creek for many years! Thanks, Eric!)
    Considering his professional credentials, the fact that even as CAC Chair, he can't get any action accomplished, should speak volumes about the crony-ist, elitist groups that want to have things THEIR way, and the Hoi Polloi be damned.

    And we WILL be damned if we don't get it clear just WHO those elitists are.

  23. #123
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    20
    I am not sure if this applies but as a professional in land use the governing agency is required to respond within 30 days or deem an application incomplete. This is part of CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act, the document that "governs" all of the agencies in the state. It seems the game that has been played is delay and as the public we are in some form the applicant. Perhaps if this is brought up to the city we could get a response from the city.

    http://ceres.ca.gov/ceqa/guidelines/15100-15112_web.pdf

  24. #124
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Pacific's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    If I could figure out a way/ place to get out of San Diego to, I would. This county, and the entire state have been far too crowded for the last 20 years or so.
    I'm right there with you Ray...too busy for me. You're the only one I've heard that feels that way.

    I was ticketed after crossing the vehicle barrier near tunnels last month. It's a $280 ticket, despite what the LEOs said.

  25. #125
    banned
    Reputation: random walk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacific View Post
    I'm right there with you Ray...too busy for me. You're the only one I've heard that feels that way.
    I'm never too vocal about it on forums, but I've been plotting my escape for years. 2nd-generation native, have watched this place go to absolute crap in my 51 years. Having gotten back into MTBing in 2008, and watching how that has deteriorated in the past few years, is just piss-flavored icing on the shitcake.

    If my kids weren't so embedded in their school & activities here, we'd be gone like that.

  26. #126
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    42
    Spy satellites noticed Rangers at the eucalyptus trees. Sunday circa 12:30. Shouldn't they be watching the game?

  27. #127
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    81
    Was riding north across the Mesa Top tonight on the legal road and came across a rider walking back towards LPQ. He had received a warning for riding in the restricted area a couple weeks back and was caught again tonight near the Eucalyptis trees. His bike was confiscated and he was ticketed. Sounds like he was told to get down on the ground after he tried arguing about it. They were armed with military style rifles.

    The fire road is getting old...

  28. #128
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by jhardeman View Post
    Was riding north across the Mesa Top tonight on the legal road and came across a rider walking back towards LPQ. He had received a warning for riding in the restricted area a couple weeks back and was caught again tonight near the Eucalyptis trees. His bike was confiscated and he was ticketed. Sounds like he was told to get down on the ground after he tried arguing about it. They were armed with military style rifles.

    The fire road is getting old...
    Our tax dollars at work.....protecting us from ourselves.

  29. #129
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    958
    I hate to have to repeat myself, but exactly where is Del Mar Mesa?

    edit: Never mind, I found it on the map. It is near where we had planned on visiting and would probably be where I would have ridden.

    Is there anywhere where it is legal to ride?

  30. #130
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    20
    It is the mesa and canyons north of penesquitos canyon. I think this will escalate until someone gets beaten or gets shot at. This stupidity needs to get some media time beyond these forums.

  31. #131
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    42
    Holy crap,

    I hope he has the money for a lawyer and can sue them. Considering the cost if ironman racing theses days ($700 per race) the thought of a ticket was not much of a deterent, but but confiscation? Seems a bit abusive, maybe unconstitutional. I thought that could only happen to drunks and drug dealers.

    I am not that unfit, but taking that stupid fire road to work first thing in the morning will suck. Going down it sucks as well, maybe it were like cobbles or the shits it could be fun...

  32. #132
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    42
    As i plan to take the road bike to work today, One more thing that pisses me off more, having sustained a grade 3 concussion from an SUV not looking where he was going on the road. It maybe a better use of state resources to actually enforce the cell phone laws instead of hanging out it the shady trees playing commando.

  33. #133
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by martindfletcher View Post
    As i plan to take the road bike to work today, One more thing that pisses me off more, having sustained a grade 3 concussion from an SUV not looking where he was going on the road. It maybe a better use of state resources to actually enforce the cell phone laws instead of hanging out it the shady trees playing commando.
    You'll get more than a grade 3 concussion if you trip one of their cameras. They're getting mean, and they will stomp you down as if you were a mean-mouth wino.

  34. #134
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,773
    Quote Originally Posted by jhardeman View Post
    Was riding north across the Mesa Top tonight on the legal road and came across a rider walking back towards LPQ. He had received a warning for riding in the restricted area a couple weeks back and was caught again tonight near the Eucalyptis trees. His bike was confiscated and he was ticketed. Sounds like he was told to get down on the ground after he tried arguing about it. They were armed with military style rifles.
    This sounds like a scene from some book about life in North Korea.......
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Rules
    e-bike forum rules

  35. #135
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,603
    Let me be very clear about something before anyone goes post crazy on me. I personally hate the fact that the closure happened and it has taken over 5 years (and still counting) to get where we are. However, I do not have a lot of empathy for the users who are blatantly violating the law.

    There are 100's of miles of trails out there not even including the recent drama in MTRP. If you ride in PQ, with a little creativity, you can easily create 50+ loops in the surrounding area, NEVER riding on roads and NEVER repeating the trail. I love the tunnels and know every bit of them like the back of my hand including the fenced off no-man's-land. I rode them up to the point they said stop (and enforced it). I would love to tell each of you to stop for now but you are your own person. If you get tagged, it is not like you didn't already know.....

    In any environment, the penalties for repeat offenders will go up. While driving, have you ever gotten a second moving violation before you cleared your first? It is a lot more, no surprise.

    The DMM is still closed even with the archaeology report complete. Until the day the trails are officially open, the trespassing enforcement will continue, unabated.

    Before we head down the "police state" claims, look at the facts:

    -The DMM is still closed
    - If you are on any of the land other than the fireroad, by orders of the city, state, and CDFW, you are trespassing.
    - The CDFW ran into a repeat offender. It was no accident the rider was there. The rider chose to ignore the reasons for the first citation.
    - The CDFW (a real law enforcement entity) has the authority to confiscate the bike. The rider can get it back but I am sure he will only get it by appearing in court, explaining why he was there after the first citation, and paying a hefty fine.

    I believe the bike was confiscated but the report is hearsay for all other interactions between the CDFW and the rider. Sounds like he was told to get down on the ground after he tried arguing about it. I want to hear what happened in a first hand post

    Finally, I love the fact you all are greatly alarmed at the recent interactions on the Mesa. I just wish I could get you to channel that energy into action that would be beneficial to moving the process along. I know there are those out there that believe we will never be able to ride the tunnels legally again. The fact of the matter is the process is moving along at glacial speed but it is moving along. The next piece of the plan is to have the city present the archaeological findings. That is tentatively scheduled to be complete by the end of this year. Don't give up on the process. It sucks and it is slow, but it is happening.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  36. #136
    Let's build one more
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    801
    It might help to have more than myself and No bad rides attend the CAC meetings too
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti

  37. #137
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Let me be very clear about something before anyone goes post crazy on me. I personally hate the fact that the closure happened and it has taken over 5 years (and still counting) to get where we are. However, I do not have a lot of empathy for the users who are blatantly violating the law.

    There are 100's of miles of trails out there not even including the recent drama in MTRP. If you ride in PQ, with a little creativity, you can easily create 50+ loops in the surrounding area, NEVER riding on roads and NEVER repeating the trail. I love the tunnels and know every bit of them like the back of my hand including the fenced off no-man's-land. I rode them up to the point they said stop (and enforced it). I would love to tell each of you to stop for now but you are your own person. If you get tagged, it is not like you didn't already know.....

    In any environment, the penalties for repeat offenders will go up. While driving, have you ever gotten a second moving violation before you cleared your first? It is a lot more, no surprise.

    The DMM is still closed even with the archaeology report complete. Until the day the trails are officially open, the trespassing enforcement will continue, unabated.

    Before we head down the "police state" claims, look at the facts:

    -The DMM is still closed
    - If you are on any of the land other than the fireroad, by orders of the city, state, and CDFW, you are trespassing.
    - The CDFW ran into a repeat offender. It was no accident the rider was there. The rider chose to ignore the reasons for the first citation.
    - The CDFW (a real law enforcement entity) has the authority to confiscate the bike. The rider can get it back but I am sure he will only get it by appearing in court, explaining why he was there after the first citation, and paying a hefty fine.

    I believe the bike was confiscated but the report is hearsay for all other interactions between the CDFW and the rider. Sounds like he was told to get down on the ground after he tried arguing about it. I want to hear what happened in a first hand post

    Finally, I love the fact you all are greatly alarmed at the recent interactions on the Mesa. I just wish I could get you to channel that energy into action that would be beneficial to moving the process along. I know there are those out there that believe we will never be able to ride the tunnels legally again. The fact of the matter is the process is moving along at glacial speed but it is moving along. The next piece of the plan is to have the city present the archaeological findings. That is tentatively scheduled to be complete by the end of this year. Don't give up on the process. It sucks and it is slow, but it is happening.
    All true, BB, and you may be aware of statements I've made supporting your efforts. But part of me is marveling at how, in these budget-challenged times, the State and the City and Feds too, for that matter, manage to actually FUND this nonsense.

  38. #138
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    All true, BB, and you may be aware of statements I've made supporting your efforts. But part of me is marveling at how, in these budget-challenged times, the State and the City and Feds too, for that matter, manage to actually FUND this nonsense.
    Unfortunately, on the backs of the violators. If there was nobody there, say for 2 or 3 months, the trails would not go away but they would not be able to justify the CDFW enforcement where there is no problem. It would also help us by proving we can police our own. It happened in the beginning. People just have been impatient as it has been a very long, arduous journey. There is a glimmer of light up ahead. Just find another outlet for the time being.

    I have a boatload of Scout Popcorn if anybody needs to eat their way out of this depressing era. :-)
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  39. #139
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Unfortunately, on the backs of the violators. If there was nobody there, say for 2 or 3 months, the trails would not go away but they would not be able to justify the CDFW enforcement where there is no problem. It would also help us by proving we can police our own. It happened in the beginning. People just have been impatient as it has been a very long, arduous journey. There is a glimmer of light up ahead. Just find another outlet for the time being.

    I have a boatload of Scout Popcorn if anybody needs to eat their way out of this depressing era. :-)
    I love popcorn, but the old body just can't take the sodium!

  40. #140
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Pacific's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    22
    It's a $280 ticket for first offenders. So that revenue can justify the wasted funding for manned enforcement.

  41. #141
    Let's build one more
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    801
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacific View Post
    It's a $280 ticket for first offenders. So that revenue can justify the wasted funding for manned enforcement.
    To Bankerboys point, IF people can stay out and not get tickets the ROI will not be there. One would think that sooner than later they will have to leave but were talking about the Feds here...
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti

  42. #142
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    42
    Are there enough geeks riding that we could have twitter feed that we post warnings of rangers/patrols? The current tactics have been, if you see them first turn around and/or ride as hard as you can and dont look back, or to let a posey of other riders go first and if you don't hear anything follow.

  43. #143
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    To Bankerboys point, IF people can stay out and not get tickets the ROI will not be there. One would think that sooner than later they will have to leave but were talking about the Feds here...
    True, but I figure that two armed, badged officers, two trucks, run the State $100/hour, easy...considering all the extraneous expenses. I don't think it pays its' way.

  44. #144
    ridin' Mary
    Reputation: OhNooo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    348
    Maybe we will get lucky. If the repubs have their way, they could shut down the government funding next week. I wonder if CDFW funding would be in jeopardy and they could furlough the officers on the mesa?

  45. #145
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,773
    Quote Originally Posted by OhNooo View Post
    Maybe we will get lucky. If the repubs have their way, they could shut down the government funding next week. I wonder if CDFW funding would be in jeopardy and they could furlough the officers on the mesa?
    I like this, a very positive spin on the Government Shutdown. hahaha!
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Rules
    e-bike forum rules

  46. #146
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I like this, a very positive spin on the Government Shutdown. hahaha!
    Lemonaide!

  47. #147
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    4,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    ...I figure that two armed, badged officers, two trucks, run the State $100/hour, easy...considering all the extraneous expenses. I don't think it pays its' way.
    Are the officers out there state or federal? The reason I ask is from what I've heard, the state doesn't have that many wildlife enforcement officers. If they are state wildlife officers, these would be the same guys that are supposed to be monitoring hunting and fishing. It seems like a big commitment of resources.

  48. #148
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EBasil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,089
    The California Dept. of Fish and Wildlife guys are ... well, "State" and they're specially funded by a grant from SANDAG. The Parks Dept. and CDFW went off and explained they need money for a crucial protection of lands being damaged by persons visiting them after many of those same persons went in and removed trash and debris left...under the auspices of CDFW's management of lands.

    Either way, there's designated money to pay for the enforcement scheme up there.

  49. #149
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil View Post
    The California Dept. of Fish and Wildlife guys are ... well, "State" and they're specially funded by a grant from SANDAG. The Parks Dept. and CDFW went off and explained they need money for a crucial protection of lands being damaged by persons visiting them after many of those same persons went in and removed trash and debris left...under the auspices of CDFW's management of lands.

    Either way, there's designated money to pay for the enforcement scheme up there.
    It's a gem of a system there, and as long as the money holds out, it is poised to go state-wide.

  50. #150
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    4,126
    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil View Post
    The California Dept. of Fish and Wildlife guys are ... well, "State" and they're specially funded by a grant from SANDAG. The Parks Dept. and CDFW went off and explained they need money for a crucial protection of lands being damaged by persons visiting them after many of those same persons went in and removed trash and debris left...under the auspices of CDFW's management of lands.

    Either way, there's designated money to pay for the enforcement scheme up there.
    Thanks. Somebody had referred to the enforcement guy as feds, thus the source of my confusion. I wonder what other funding needs SANDAG might be leaving unfilled to pay for this nonsense, and aren't there some abalone or steelhead getting poached somewhere that should rate higher in terms of resource protection? Sigh...

  51. #151
    Uly
    Uly is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    254
    Lobster season starts up this weekend. They are usually at every launch ramp and pier trying to enforce. It will be interesting......

  52. #152
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan View Post
    Thanks. Somebody had referred to the enforcement guy as feds, thus the source of my confusion. I wonder what other funding needs SANDAG might be leaving unfilled to pay for this nonsense, and aren't there some abalone or steelhead getting poached somewhere that should rate higher in terms of resource protection? Sigh...
    I'm sure that the fish and game poachers are LOVING this new agenda!

  53. #153
    Uly
    Uly is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    254
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacific View Post
    It's a $280 ticket for first offenders. So that revenue can justify the wasted funding for manned enforcement.
    Getting caught for poaching is way more expensive than that, sooooo....They must be getting more incentive somewhere to be pulled off poach watch and put onto mtb'er harass.

    Believe me, there are poachers everywhere...there is no shortage of poachers, and tickets to be issued.

  54. #154
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Uly View Post
    Getting caught for poaching is way more expensive than that, sooooo....They must be getting more incentive somewhere to be pulled off poach watch and put onto mtb'er harass.

    Believe me, there are poachers everywhere...there is no shortage of poachers, and tickets to be issued.
    As EBasil said above, SANDAG is paying them! OUR local tax revenues! Is that cool, or not?

  55. #155
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    4,126
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    As EBasil said above, SANDAG is paying them!
    So here's a question. I wonder what SANDAG's specific funding source for this is? Property taxes? Developer fees?

  56. #156
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32
    I took a reporter for the Carmel Valley News up on DMM this past Saturday morning to have a look around. He was able to get the opinions of several bikers and a hiker regarding the recent ramp-up in enforcement. He was last out there in 2008 when the area first became "off limits." I can't believe it's been 5 years without any significant progress.

    He's looking to speak to anyone who has been ticketed in the area recently. Obviously, this would be someone whose not intending to fight the ticket. If anyone is willing to chat, please post or send me a private message.

    The article will probably run in a couple of weeks.

  57. #157
    Titanium Club
    Reputation: Ferdball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    229
    Okay, I'll ask. Is our friend The Gerst a State or A Fed?

  58. #158
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdball View Post
    Okay, I'll ask. Is our friend The Gerst a State or A Fed?
    He's not still alive, is he? Looked like death warmed over the last time I saw him, and that was a few years back.

  59. #159
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,603
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdball View Post
    Okay, I'll ask. Is our friend The Gerst a State or A Fed?
    Neither. He was a volunteer as is the entire CAC board. Whether you like the man or not, there is no need knock a man when he is down. I am not a fan of his anti-bike stance that has become the legacy the current board is trying to overcome. He is not part of the CAC and has not been for over a year. He has personal health issues. Keep it civil and let it go. There are far bigger and more important issues than this.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  60. #160
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Neither. He was a volunteer as is the entire CAC board. Whether you like the man or not, there is no need knock a man when he is down. I am not a fan of his anti-bike stance that has become the legacy the current board is trying to overcome. He is not part of the CAC and has not been for over a year. He has personal health issues. Keep it civil and let it go. There are far bigger and more important issues than this.
    I'm just glad to hear he's still alive. Although, it seemed to me that even when he was involved, actively involved, i the CAC, that he looked to be in constant discomfort. But that just might be me, projecting.
    As you say, BB, none of that matters anymore. Now, we are dealing with the fallout of how the State sees mitigation for the developers activities. As for Gerst, I wish him a peaceful transition.

    At any rate, I haven't even been near DMM or all of those trails that I loved for a long time now, and I don't intend to go back there, either.

  61. #161
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,603
    There is hope for some of the trails.

    Just keep an open mind. The approved plan, barring any negative archaeology impact report, is to open portions of the rim trail on the west side, including the the switch backs, and on the east side, tunnel 4 , and tunnel 1.

    We are also working to convince the Dept of Fish and Wildlife to allow access to the east/west corridor currently off limits. This would also allow access to Rocking Horse (Tunnel 3) Whether that will be allowed and to what extent is up in the air right now. There is language in the DF&W doctrine that allows for access, including bikes, at their discretion. That is part of why it is so important that we get people to stay out of there (beside the recent military style enforcement). The meeting with them is in November/December. When we get closer and get better details, I will become a bigger posting machine than I already am.

    Like I said at the top, just keep an open mind and try to stay out of the DMM other than the fire road for now.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  62. #162
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    There is hope for some of the trails.

    Just keep an open mind. The approved plan, barring any negative archaeology impact report, is to open portions of the rim trail on the west side, including the the switch backs, and on the east side, tunnel 4 , and tunnel 1.

    We are also working to convince the Dept of Fish and Wildlife to allow access to the east/west corridor currently off limits. This would also allow access to Rocking Horse (Tunnel 3) Whether that will be allowed and to what extent is up in the air right now. There is language in the DF&W doctrine that allows for access, including bikes, at their discretion. That is part of why it is so important that we get people to stay out of there (beside the recent military style enforcement). The meeting with them is in November/December. When we get closer and get better details, I will become a bigger posting machine than I already am.

    Like I said at the top, just keep an open mind and try to stay out of the DMM other than the fire road for now.


    I'm glad your'e out there, BB. I got no stomach for it anymore.
    I'm not discouraged, but I'm gettin' there.....

  63. #163
    Let's build one more
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    801
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Neither. He was a volunteer as is the entire CAC board. Whether you like the man or not, there is no need knock a man when he is down. I am not a fan of his anti-bike stance that has become the legacy the current board is trying to overcome. He is not part of the CAC and has not been for over a year. He has personal health issues. Keep it civil and let it go. There are far bigger and more important issues than this.
    +1

    Leave that crap to our government...
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti

  64. #164
    Titanium Club
    Reputation: Ferdball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    229
    Okay, my mistake. Who is the guy/dept working overtime handing out tickets? It sucks that we have so many people out of work, and yet this non essential task being enforced with questionable overtime pay.

  65. #165
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Uly View Post
    Lobster season starts up this weekend. They are usually at every launch ramp and pier trying to enforce. It will be interesting......
    I was up on the dirt road yesterday evening and it looked like there had not been any CDFW activity since last weekend. The signs were all bent inward and the gate was wide open. There were no truck tracks in the dust either. So either they are protecting lobsters now, or their mandate is partially funded by federal funds.

    I noticed game camera housing that I never noticed before, so it may be new. It was on the South side of the road, set up to capture images near the gate leading to the eucalyptus grove. There was no camera in it.

  66. #166
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadbike View Post
    I was up on the dirt road yesterday evening and it looked like there had not been any CDFW activity since last weekend. The signs were all bent inward and the gate was wide open. There were no truck tracks in the dust either. So either they are protecting lobsters now, or their mandate is partially funded by federal funds.

    I noticed game camera housing that I never noticed before, so it may be new. It was on the South side of the road, set up to capture images near the gate leading to the eucalyptus grove. There was no camera in it.
    Thanks for the update. The camera housing has been there for some time, but there's always been a camera in it....

  67. #167
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,359
    Yesterday about noon there was a SUV up on the mesa, it was
    on one of the closed trails. It was to far away to tell who it belonged
    to though.

  68. #168
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    Yesterday about noon there was a SUV up on the mesa, it was
    on one of the closed trails. It was to far away to tell who it belonged
    to though.
    Thanks for the report, John. I'm steering clear of the whole area these days. I hate riding where I'm not welcome.

  69. #169
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    104

    Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    Noticed fresh truck tracks Wednesday evening. Stay clear for now please.

  70. #170
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,359
    The main north-south road is still open, just don't
    ride anything else in that area. I still like doing power
    lines and cobbles. They are both good climbs.

  71. #171
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    The main north-south road is still open, just don't
    ride anything else in that area. I still like doing power
    lines and cobbles. They are both good climbs.
    Yes, and there's still Sh*tz, although the switchbacks must be gettin' mighty soft about now.

  72. #172
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    3
    I was out Saturday morning and saw what looked like a DFG SUV exiting through the gate at the top of power line as I was climbing up.

    Yes, there is still the Sh*tz, but it's like riding in a bowl of flour....

  73. #173
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Canadbike View Post
    I took a reporter for the Carmel Valley News up on DMM this past Saturday morning to have a look around. He was able to get the opinions of several bikers and a hiker regarding the recent ramp-up in enforcement. He was last out there in 2008 when the area first became "off limits." I can't believe it's been 5 years without any significant progress.

    He's looking to speak to anyone who has been ticketed in the area recently. Obviously, this would be someone whose not intending to fight the ticket. If anyone is willing to chat, please post or send me a private message.

    The article will probably run in a couple of weeks.
    Here's a link to the article that runs today in the Carmel Valley News and sister publications:

    Local residents react to stronger enforcement of Del Mar Mesa Preserve trails use - Del Mar Times | Del Mar Times

    I particularly like the warden's comments about the doctors, military officials, and airline pilots they have cited and how people try to out-run them. That had me laughing out loud. I think it really highlights how ridiculous the government is being. These aren't people you normally associate with trespassing, dumping, and littering.

  74. #174
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,773
    Thanks for linking that article!

    Hopefully we can use this to help further spread the word around and get more people involved.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Rules
    e-bike forum rules

  75. #175
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    666
    Thanks for linking the article. It says that the SANDAG / CDFW contract to pay for enforcement ends this month but is expected to be renewed. Is there any way to find out if does or does not get renewed, and for how long? Wondering if meeting minutes get posted somewhere accessible by the public, would be interesting to see.

  76. #176
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    114
    Keith Greer, a Senior Regional Planner for SANDAG can be reached here: (619) 699-7390, Email: keith.greer@sandag.org

    We should all send him an e-mail and voice mail encouraging the contract not to be renewed with CDFW. Those dollars should be spent improving areas, not ticketing trail users.

    Information on meetings conducted by the Environmental Mitigation Program Working Group can be found here: SANDAG ::COMMITTEES:: San Diego's Regional Planning Agency

  77. #177
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,773
    Meeting Schedule
    The EMPWG generally meets from 1 to 3 p.m. on the second Tuesday of every other month (odd months).
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Rules
    e-bike forum rules

  78. #178
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Yet again, Canadbike, thanks for posting that up. It was good to see Eric Basil quoted in that article, as he is the man who knows all too well the years-long history of the indifference, duplicity, and abuse of that area.
    We all know this, and so does Zirkle....the vast majority of the cleanup efforts that changed that area from a dumping-ground and off-roaders' Thunderdome-scene up top, and a genuinely huge migrant settlement in the ravines, or "Tunnels", as they are known, was performed, free of charge, by SDMBA. After the last of the work for the migrants was finished, they got cleared out, and their trash sat, for years, untouched.

    Of course, we're supposed to believe that nobody in SANDAG or any other branch of government was aware of that, or of the pot farms, the meth labs....etc. Which may be a real possibility as I look at the dysfunctional state of government in general these days.

    The ranger quoted in the article who used the term "entitlement mentality" really does not have a clue as to who the REAL entitlement mentality people are, or else he doesn't care, as long as he gets his paycheck.
    If my opinion of the local government-by-cronyism was not at rock-bottom low, it is now.

  79. #179
    ocd
    ocd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    579
    ---
    "Ference said multiple cameras installed in early summer in the preserve by Sandag documented 1,600 trespassing violations over a four-week period.
    “It was so out of control something had to be done and that’s kind of why we were brought in,” Ference said. "
    ---

    No, no, no, no, those are game cameras guys! A student, a study... pinky swear!

  80. #180
    Let's build one more
    Reputation: Dirtrider127's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    801
    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    ---
    "Ference said multiple cameras installed in early summer in the preserve by Sandag documented 1,600 trespassing violations over a four-week period.
    “It was so out of control something had to be done and that’s kind of why we were brought in,” Ference said. "
    ---

    No, no, no, no, those are game cameras guys! A student, a study... pinky swear!
    "we are ONLY looking at hoof, shoes, and wheels"

    That's why the cameras can see every part of the trespasser..
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

    -Urban Yeti

  81. #181
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    "we are ONLY looking at hoof, shoes, and wheels"

    That's why the cameras can see every part of the trespasser..
    To a certain extent, they are all complicit in these lies. Knowingly or not. They need to at least get them straight.

  82. #182
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    I am moving to Charlotte. Can't wait. I will miss being able to ride year round but I guess I will just invest in cold weather riding gear and rain gear. San Diego has some great riding but it sucks having to drive so far to get to the good stuff. Trails are becoming overcrowded. I remember when they delayed the DMM trails plan in 2009. I expected it would take about 1 year for them to come to an agreement and either approve or disapprove. It is now close to the end of 2013 and they have done nothing. Now they say the illegal use must be dealt with BEFORE they will consider any proposals. Maybe I am just ignorant but it sounds like the revamped DFG or whatever they call themselves these days just wants the park rangers to do the dirty work. Either way we as taxpayers get to pay them to keep us OFF the trails and for what? To preserve the pristine, former bombing ranges and migrant dumping grounds? We have done more to preserve DMM than anyone by keeping the riff raff out and cleaning up.
    Congrats on the move to Charlotte! I live here now. I lived in San Diego for 13 years. I could ride my bike to Del Mar Mesa since I lived in Del Mar.

    The riding here in the Charlotte area and within 2 hours drive BLOWS AWAY San Diego!

    My brother just came for a visit 2 weeks ago and I took him to Warrior Creek and he loved it! He couldn't believe how great the ride was.

    I rode all winter last year in shorts and a jersey. Never got that cold and didn't rain much at all. Rode just about every weekend.

    I do miss the surf in San Diego and the weather but Charlotte is real nice. Incredible mountain biking year round. They just built more trails at Lake Norman State Park.

  83. #183
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BikingScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    ---


    No, no, no, no, those are game cameras guys! A student, a study... pinky swear!

  84. #184
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,603
    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    ---
    "Ference said multiple cameras installed in early summer in the preserve by Sandag documented 1,600 trespassing violations over a four-week period.
    “It was so out of control something had to be done and that’s kind of why we were brought in,” Ference said. "
    ---

    No, no, no, no, those are game cameras guys! A student, a study... pinky swear!
    The cameras the rangers and CDFW officials are using are the same type of cameras that WERE used for game tracking by a SDSU graduate student. They are also the same cameras that track animal foot traffic at lots of areas outside of PQ. There used to be three of them at the Scripps/Poway Parkway underpassing in Poway, one under the Camino Del Sur bridge, and a few more in other areas around Black Mountain and PQ.

    FWIW, when all this was first erupting, I spoke via email with the grad student. She was legit. Furthermore, Ranger Washington openly shared there were cameras on the mesa, tracking traffic other than animal. They wanted to know the traffic patterns and how to better manage it.

    From the September 2012 report given to the CAC

    The Open Space Division with San Diego Association of Governments and the San Diego Management & Monitoring Program has begun a recreational use study on Del Mar Mesa. This includes an intense educational component using signs, face to face contacts and cameras to track use. The educational phase of the project has begun. As we were setting up the practice cameras, to figure out the best placement and how collect the data, two of our cameras were stolen (we learned what doesn’t work). But, since two of our cameras were stolen, we have to buy more so the study is taking longer than originally planned. The pictures from the cameras will be viewed by City Open Space Division Rangers, Multiple Species Conservation Program (MSCP) staff and interns who will tally the use. It is our aim to position the cameras to capture usership, i.e. wheels, ankles, hooves. The purpose of the study is to help us learn the best strategy to manage Open Space Preserves with high recreation use. All the data we gather, like all other City information, is available to the public, however, it won’t be published on a website.

    It was openly posted here. Yet everybody still went on the trails. So now we have the "1600 violations documented in a four week time frame", heavy handed enforcement, and the mess that goes with it. I doubt they will back off any time soon.
    Last edited by bankerboy; 10-12-2013 at 07:19 PM. Reason: spelling errors and additional info
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  85. #185
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post

    It was openly posted here. Yet everybody still went on the trails. So now we have the "1600 violations documented in a four week time frame", heavy handed enforcement, and the mess that goes with it. I doubt they will back off any time soon.
    Instead of thinking about when they should 'back off', maybe they should think about those 1600 trail users, people who live nearby, many who moved there just so they could use those trails that have been around for decades.

    If I were them, I'd think about those citizens, and how best to serve their needs. Just a suggestion...........

  86. #186
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    666
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    It was openly posted here. Yet everybody still went on the trails. So now we have the "1600 violations documented in a four week time frame", heavy handed enforcement, and the mess that goes with it. I doubt they will back off any time soon.
    I think the people on MTBR and other bike forums greatly overestimate the impact they have. I'm the only one in my regular group ride that looks at the forums, out of ~12 riders. That ratio is about the same with the <30 year olds at my work who I sometimes ride with, so it's not just a generational thing.

  87. #187
    mtbr member
    Reputation: D_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    693

    Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    When a restriction or law seems unfair, illogical, unnecessary to its stated purposes, etc, people are for the most part going to ignore it. In those circumstances, the only way to enforce compliance is with brute force. Education won't work, since no one is ever going to buy that the only way to save endangered species there is to stop using trails that have already been in use for decades with little apparent harm to the species in question. New trail construction would obviously be another issue.

    As a result, doctors, lawyers, military officers, university professors, soccer moms, etc, have all become criminals.

    Ultimately, this kind of idiocy only serves to generate hostility to even sensible environmental restrictions at this location and elsewhere. That's the sad part. And this is all coming from someone who has self-identified as an "environmentalist" for most of his life!

  88. #188
    ocd
    ocd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    579
    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    The cameras the rangers and CDFW officials are using are the same type of cameras that WERE used for game tracking by a SDSU graduate student.
    I didn't really mean that as a jab at you, I meant it as a jab at the park and officials Unless of course, you actually do believe the BS that is being fed to the riders, hikers, joggers, etc. Like that the cameras are being used to figure out how to "manage" open space. At this point, what they've figure out seems to be "people are still here, so lets go out and issue citations"... that, in short, isn't a solution and it's unacceptable. Possibly the more accurate statement would be that the cameras were placed to survey whether or not actively enforcing the closures would be fiscally feasible... I.E. are there enough violations to be issued to justify the presence of officers (or whatever their title is).

    When the city officials say "there's nothing we can do about it" it is exactly that. BS.

    There's plenty that can be done, regardless of budget but people have to want to get things done and as of the last half a decade, nothing is happening to want to improve trail access.

    The user base has mostly said across the board "let's work on a solution" and the other side (city, county, etc) hasn't stepped up to the plate to work together for a solution. Prior to saying "well, we're just waiting on the archeological survey", remember the closures took place in... 2008 was it? So 5 years now? From a taxpayers point of view, that simply isn't acceptable.

    For the record, I haven't ridden there in a long time but I pay my property taxes like a good resident and quite frankly, I'm disgusted at the city and county's approach to such matters.

  89. #189
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,773
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    I think the people on MTBR and other bike forums greatly overestimate the impact they have. I'm the only one in my regular group ride that looks at the forums, out of ~12 riders. That ratio is about the same with the <30 year olds at my work who I sometimes ride with, so it's not just a generational thing.
    I agree with this statement. I ride with about 6 different close friends and I am the only one of our group who frequents any Mountain Biking Forums of any kind. I think those of us who are on these sites and aware of what is going on are in a very small minority when it comes to the total number of trail users. I would venture to say (and this is a total guess) that less than 1% of hikers/walkers/trail runners who use the same trails we do go on forums to discuss the local trail use.

    The only thing we can do is inform our friends via word of mouth, etc.

    It also might be good to get Turko involved so he can spread the word on a more public level..............
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Rules
    e-bike forum rules

  90. #190
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    32
    I would tend to agree. I'm no scientist, and gynecology is only a hobby of mine, but I do remember a thing or two about the scientific method from frickin' HIGH SCHOOL!

    I they were really trying to get a sense of how many people use DMM, it would need to be open to the public. Obviously, it's going to get way more use if it's open, and they have no idea what that number is. People not looking for stress or confrontation on their weekend ride/hike have found other places to ride/hike.

    So I think the "use study" is merely a pretext for collecting evidence to justify spending money on enforcement. No self-respecting scientist could state that the use their recording is an accurate portrayal of what actual use would be. No doubt, the 1600 "violations" were used to secure funding for the BS that's going on now.

  91. #191
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,773
    The other Problem here is the simple access to trails is what constitutes a "Violation".

    As a pretty rational person wouldn't a Violation be the cutting of trees, making new trails, or in some other way disturbing the vegetation and wildlife beyond something other than just using an existing trail? Can someone who is land manager please explain how accessing an existing trail is hurtful to the environment, because I don't buy it.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Rules
    e-bike forum rules

  92. #192
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I agree with this statement. I ride with about 6 different close friends and I am the only one of our group who frequents any Mountain Biking Forums of any kind. I think those of us who are on these sites and aware of what is going on are in a very small minority when it comes to the total number of trail users. I would venture to say (and this is a total guess) that less than 1% of hikers/walkers/trail runners who use the same trails we do go on forums to discuss the local trail use.

    The only thing we can do is inform our friends via word of mouth, etc.

    It also might be good to get Turko involved so he can spread the word on a more public level..............
    Turko backed down when I, a bicycle commuter, was denied access to Ft. Rosecrans National Cemetery to visit my father's plaque, one of the few that has 3 wars on it. I was told this, while cemetery employees zipped back and forth on their bicycles.

    When I first contacted Turko, he was all Gung-Ho on the phone about it, and we scheduled a meet there. By the time he arrived, somebody had told him to back off, Bad Doggy, or something, and all he could do was stand there and smoke a cig while the workers came and went on their bikes.

    So if there are any heavy hitters behind this, and you know there are, he might not be so brave on your behalf.

  93. #193
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    114
    Aren't most of the heavy hitters getting too old to care? I mean when do these a-holes trade in their horses for hoveround scooters?

  94. #194
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    666
    Quote Originally Posted by D_Man View Post
    When a restriction or law seems unfair, illogical, unnecessary to its stated purposes, etc, people are for the most part going to ignore it. In those circumstances, the only way to enforce compliance is with brute force. Education won't work, since no one is ever going to buy that the only way to save endangered species there is to stop using trails that have already been in use for decades with little apparent harm to the species in question. New trail construction would obviously be another issue.

    As a result, doctors, lawyers, military officers, university professors, soccer moms, etc, have all become criminals.

    Ultimately, this kind of idiocy only serves to generate hostility to even sensible environmental restrictions at this location and elsewhere. That's the sad part. And this is all coming from someone who has self-identified as an "environmentalist" for most of his life!
    Great post

  95. #195
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    478
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Turko backed down when I, a bicycle commuter, was denied access to Ft. Rosecrans National Cemetery to visit my father's plaque, one of the few that has 3 wars on it. I was told this, while cemetery employees zipped back and forth on their bicycles.

    When I first contacted Turko, he was all Gung-Ho on the phone about it, and we scheduled a meet there. By the time he arrived, somebody had told him to back off, Bad Doggy, or something, and all he could do was stand there and smoke a cig while the workers came and went on their bikes.

    So if there are any heavy hitters behind this, and you know there are, he might not be so brave on your behalf.
    Turko works for KUSI. KUSI has great local sports coverage, but all the rest of the coverage is very slanted towards a political agenda.

  96. #196
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by outside! View Post
    Turko works for KUSI. KUSI has great local sports coverage, but all the rest of the coverage is very slanted towards a political agenda.
    Of course, ALL of the local media, as well as the print media, is politicized to some extent or the other. Turko's self-credentialed role/character as a 'rogue' gives you hope, and by all means give it a try.
    You are free to PM me if you want some more detail on my experience, which was neither positive, or negative, with him. I'd say it was a "wash".

    Certain situations should not be 'political' in any way, but that does not change the way things get done here in "America's Finest City" ( anyone remember how that little promotion got started?), or as somebody else once dubbed us, "Enron-by-the-Sea."

  97. #197
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,773

    Fairy Shrimp

    This is sorta on topic and I did not think it warranted a new thread.

    One of the reasons the Del Mar Mesa is off limits is to protect the Fairy Shrimp right? What would happen if the people who are out to protect them saw this scenario from a local pool guy?

    Tickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-fairy-shrimp-1.jpgTickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-fairy-shrimp-2.jpgTickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-fairy-shrimp-3.jpg

    The shrimp jump in the pools, die and get caught in the cleaners and are then discarded.

    Maybe the Enviro guys need to be targeting rich people in Rancho Santa Fe that have big pools. Something tells me one pool kills more of these bugs than any mountain biker has ever done.

    Could you imagine..... haha.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Rules
    e-bike forum rules

  98. #198
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    This is sorta on topic and I did not think it warranted a new thread.

    One of the reasons the Del Mar Mesa is off limits is to protect the Fairy Shrimp right? What would happen if the people who are out to protect them saw this scenario from a local pool guy?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fairy shrimp 1.jpg 
Views:	160 
Size:	42.8 KB 
ID:	840943Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fairy shrimp 2.jpg 
Views:	342 
Size:	123.3 KB 
ID:	840944Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fairy shrimp 3.jpg 
Views:	269 
Size:	188.2 KB 
ID:	840945

    The shrimp jump in the pools, die and get caught in the cleaners and are then discarded.

    Maybe the Enviro guys need to be targeting rich people in Rancho Santa Fe that have big pools. Something tells me one pool kills more of these bugs than any mountain biker has ever done.

    Could you imagine..... haha.
    That's interesting, but I've seen the fairy shrimp, and they look almost identical to the brine shrimp I would buy to feed my tropical fish when I had aquariums. They were much smaller than those things in your picture there. Plus, I don't believe that fairy shrimp are capable of "jumping"..... at least they don't look like they could do much of anything except move around slowly in shallow water.

    What I think would be interesting is if it turns out that DMM is so critical because it's preserve status was underwritten by the local developers as mitigation land for all of the habitat they destroyed from plopping down suburban tracts where there previously was 'habitat'.

    If so, shouldn't they also be liable for funding the construction of new alternative trails to replace the miles of former trails that they obliterated? I wonder if Turko would take up 'the fight' on THAT issue!

    After all, "IT AIN'T RIGHT!"

  99. #199
    Beer Please! SuperModerator
    Reputation: Klurejr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,773
    If those are not the same thing..... does anyone know what they are?
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

    Know these before you post:
    MTBR Posting Rules
    e-bike forum rules

  100. #200
    BM and PQ Trail Rep
    Reputation: bankerboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,603
    Do you have anything in the picture for size perspective? They look like pink pill bugs or "rolly-pollies".

    The rain or damp weather brings out all sorts of hidden creatures. I get lots of cone snails in my pool after a rain. Apparently the rain drives them to mass suicide by pool.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. LPQ, Tunnels and Del Mar Mesa: Get Involved!
    By EBasil in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 999
    Last Post: 09-08-2015, 08:21 AM
  2. Del Mar Mesa TICKETS!!! $475 Beat in Court
    By Dan M in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 01-17-2014, 02:29 PM
  3. Mesa Liquor - Kearny Mesa
    By Klurejr in forum Beer Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-30-2012, 10:54 AM
  4. Lpq / tunnels / del mar mesa - emergency action needed
    By kevmortensen in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-20-2011, 12:41 PM
  5. 6-29-11 Tunnels + BBT......
    By beagledadi in forum Nevada
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-30-2011, 01:14 PM

Members who have read this thread: 5

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •