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  1. #251
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    Thanks for identifying where this is. I certainly won't go there.

    Next question: On the ariel map, I see what looks like a network of trails west of there and west of Carmel Country Rd and labeled Carmel Mountain. What is the story for that area? Legal or not legal? If not legal, I won't bother visiting the area.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqdad View Post
    I don't think the park rangers and tickets are going to stop any time soon.

    I spoke with a friend-of-a-friend who is warden, and he said that a non-profit with deep pockets is behind all this nonsense

    According to him, the group (which he would not name) came in and is paying for all the manpower and supplies needed to keep people out of the tunnels.

    I would love to know the name of the group, and what their true motive is.

    Perhaps someone could call the fish and game, and get to the bottom of it
    Ask frank, according to his note here, the California native Plant Society is working closely with CDFW. Or just email CNPS and ask them.

    Local residents react to stronger enforcement of Del Mar Mesa Preserve trails use - Del Mar Times | Del Mar Times

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce in SoCal View Post
    Thanks for identifying where this is. I certainly won't go there.

    Next question: On the ariel map, I see what looks like a network of trails west of there and west of Carmel Country Rd and labeled Carmel Mountain. What is the story for that area? Legal or not legal? If not legal, I won't bother visiting the area.
    It is the Carmel Mountain Preserve. You can ride it in and link it to PQ from the Wagon Wheel/Wiamea intersection heading north up and under Carmel Mountain Rd. There are some horse trails and hiking trails that are off limits but they are marked. It certainly is not a destination ride but you can add a few extra miles and feet you your normal outing.

    Carmel Mountain Preserver Trail Map
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  4. #254
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    I rode under 56 near the the Camino Del Sur exit yesterday came to an open gate and no trespassing sign about 1/4 mile south (map below). Is there any way to get to Penasquitos from 56 offroad legally?

    Tickets being issues on ALL of  Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels-56.jpg

  5. #255
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    you were in Mcgonigle Canyon. it is completely legal to ride there. to get to PQ legally, you would climb up that fire road to the south. Once on the Mesa you would follow the fire road east and then south down into the canyon and up the insanely steep and long fire road.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  6. #256
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    Thanks! So just to be clear, I'm diverting up the trail on the left (green line in map below)? Continuing down the fire-road is posted as "No Trespassing".

    Name:  56a.jpg
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  7. #257
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    Yes that is correct. The "no trespassing" is a relic of the farming days. The trail is parts of the community master trail plan. You have nothing to worry about. 100% legal, no grey areas.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Yes that is correct. The "no trespassing" is a relic of the farming days. The trail is parts of the community master trail plan. You have nothing to worry about. 100% legal, no grey areas.
    Makes me wonder if that sign should be removed to avoid confusion.
    telling me to stay out of a former bombing range next to a dump while you build huge houses next to it? Screw you.-sandmangts

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Makes me wonder if that sign should be removed to avoid confusion.
    It should. It confused me. It says something about the land being owner by a builder, not farmer. I had just passed a ranger 5 minutes earlier, so I just turned back. Next time I'll take a photo and post it here.

  10. #260
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    Re: Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    I do it all the time. Completely legal. Never had any problems there.

  11. #261
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    I'm looking for the jump trail in the pq canyon. I herd it's up near powerlines, and tunnels. Where is it exactly? And is it still legal to ride?

  12. #262
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    Sorry, but not legal, and not advertised on forums.

  13. #263
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    how much is the ticket if you get caught?

  14. #264
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    If you have video you should be able to find it on your own...

    IF you do don't talk about it.

    Sadly, there are NO legal jumps in San Diego.

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.A.M. View Post
    If you have video you should be able to find it on your own...

    IF you do don't talk about it.

    Sadly, there are NO legal jumps in San Diego.
    Not even Ted Williams area on top?

  16. #266
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    Tickets being issues on ALL of Del Mar Mesa aka Tunnels

    Explore
    Last edited by pcemkr; 05-14-2014 at 04:00 PM.

  17. #267
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    PQ Jumps are sick!

  18. #268
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    There are fresh laminated "trail closed" signs here:
    https://goo.gl/maps/XcxgR

    These trails are so fun, and it is so dumb that they are closed.
    These are mature trails. Dry and rocky, no mud or vernal pools in sight. How can riding them be bad for the environment?

    What about the trails in the woods on the North slopes of Del Mar Mesa, which you can access from McGonigle Canyon? Are those all illegal, too? I did not see any "trail closed" signs there.

    Who knows what is the latest on the Del Mar Mesa trails situation?
    What can I do to get involved? Groups to join, letters to send, meetings to attend?

  19. #269
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    Appreciate the interest but the DMM ship sailed many years ago. The city has signed off on the enviromental studies and it is now it is just a waiting game. It will be far less than you hope for. I invite you to attend the LPCP CAC meetings since that is the starting point for a lot of your interests. I will post the dates and times when I find out they are officially happening.
    One word of caution. While tempting to ride, everything on the mesa other than the beloved fire road is still considered tresspassing. CDFW is periodically ticketing up there. That means it is a crapshoot. I don't know how frequently but they have the authority to ticket any land if access is not legally allowed. This means they can patrol outside of the pefectly preserved and pristine fenced sanctuary they are tasked with maintaining. Hopefully we will have sanctioned access back after the short little break we took to get the quick and expedited studies done. Kind of like we never left, right?
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  20. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by dyg2001 View Post
    Who knows what is the latest on the Del Mar Mesa trails situation?
    What can I do to get involved? Groups to join, letters to send, meetings to attend?

    If you want to get directly involved in SDMBA Advocacy activities, come to the monthly meeting or e-mail advocacy@sdmba.com.

    Sign up for SDMBA Trail News

    https://www.facebook.com/SDMBA

    SDMBA - San Diego Mountain Biking Association

  21. #271
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    Yeah, I guess DMM is a write-off.

    I realize that this current development is just the East end of T1, but it is probably just the start.

    DMM turning into a freeway
    Don't forget to unswerve!

  22. #272
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    The land is the Rhodes development. It has always been slated for housing and commercial. Right now the city is requiring a complete environmental study to be done. The biggest threat to the tunnels is the east end of tunnel one. Camino del Sur will be pushed through to Park Village. It has always been part of the master plan. The biggest issue is the "bridging" of Deer Canyon where Tunnel 1 ends at the east side. Right now it is supposed to be a dirt fill. That means the end of tunnel one will end at the bottom of a 30 food dirt wall with no access. An easement was requested and the developer is fundamentally against it. Go to the PQ Library meeting. It will be very enlightening.

    As far as writing off the DMM, don't...

    I spoke to Myra Herrmann on July 31 about the Del Mar Mesa and the pending release of the Mitigated Negative Declaration (MND) for final public hearings. She was very pleasant and happy to share as much as she knew. She is not in a position to give a timeline but here are a few points we covered:

    MND Draft Comments - Most of the outstanding items are not critical, but the Coastal Commission staff comments have required City staff to do some additional research specific to the Carmel Valley (Neighborhood 8A) community plan amendment part of the process and issues related to the Local Coastal Plan (LCP). Once an LCP is adopted, the plans are expedited without need for a lengthy review. While the Carmel Valley community has one, it was never formally adopted so the review was needed by the Coastal Commission.

    Coastal Commission – Like most of the land in the area, there are multiple agencies that oversee it. The coastal areas are no different. Some areas fall under City Coastal Zones while others are covered by the Coastal Commission. Part of the delay in the Coastal Commission’s decision making is an employee, relatively new to the position, is playing cautious and following the letter of the law. While there is little chance it will derail the process, it is just taking longer than anticipated.

    Errors in the MND – These resulted in a copy/paste error on the city’s part and impacted the Carmel Mountain preserve. While they were highlighted by multiple people, the issue was blown out of proportion and will only minimally impact the release. Essentially it just needed to be edited. None of the errors impacted the end decision.

    Carmel Mountain and DMM preserves packaged together – This was done because to help expedite the process. Since both had to go through a nearly identical approval process, it was easier, both in time and paperwork, to keep them bundled. The important thing to know that neither is tied to the other preserve. If there were issues with Carmel Mountain preserve it would not hinder the forward progress of the DMM.

    Trails Approval Process – This was the most refreshing part of the conversation. I have always been a little leery of the trail map, seeing it as possible/proposed but not there yet. Myra explained to me that these are the trails approved by the City Parks department and will be the trails. The only thing that could hinder approval was issues under the MND. As stated above, comments received were not critical to the trails plan. Also helping is the fact the trails already exist so no building permits are needed.

    I am still waiting to hear from Chris Zirkle on an official timeline but at least the information learned from Myra at the Development Services Department helped clear up some of the questions/concerns recently raised.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

  23. #273
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    ^^Thanks again for all your effort on this, BB. You are fighting the good fight, one that I kind of gave up on over a decade ago.
    Good luck with Czar Zirkle!
    Re-Cycled Person who rides a mountain bicycle.

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