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Stunts in PQ tunnel...

2K views 30 replies 16 participants last post by  endohappy 
#1 ·
First, thanks to the guys who built the 3 stunts.:thumbsup: I appreciate the hard work that adds something to the trail.

Second, no thanks to the folks who tore the stunts down and hauled them away last week. :madman: Unless you are the land manager, you have no right to do that. It's not that we have the right to ride there, but we're not changing the landscape anymore than the illegals who illegally lived there for the last 10 some years. Instead of spending your energy on destroying something most people enjoy, why don't you clean up the hundreds of milk crates and trash left there by the illegls.

FYI, these were well built ladder/bridges that were simple but fun. All the MTBer's I have talked to enjoyed the stunts. There was alternate ways around if you didn't want to ride them as well.
 
#2 ·
mxnmtber said:
First, thanks to the guys who built the 3 stunts.:thumbsup: I appreciate the hard work that adds something to the trail.

Second, no thanks to the folks who tore the stunts down and hauled them away last week. :madman: Unless you are the land manager, you have no right to do that. It's not that we have the right to ride there, but we're not changing the landscape anymore than the illegals who illegally lived there for the last 10 some years. Instead of spending your energy on destroying something most people enjoy, why don't you clean up the hundreds of milk crates and trash left there by the illegls.

FYI, these were well built ladder/bridges that were simple but fun. All the MTBer's I have talked to enjoyed the stunts. There was alternate ways around if you didn't want to ride them as well.
i rode the PQ Tunnel for the first time in over a month yesterday evening and was pretty disappointed that the bridges were removed. i figured there must have been a good reason for their removal though
 
#3 ·
Why would you complain about removing stunts from an illegal trail? Thanks for advertising a illegal trail on a public forum. Yes it does suck that someone removed the stunts, but what sucks more is you posting it on a public forum that is highly monitored. Way to go smart guy!

Because of this post, they may close the trail down and no one will be able to ride it. brilliant of you!
 
#4 ·
First...I have given no details of this particular trail other than the existance...

Second...if you read the forums I am not the first to mention the name...instead of shooting the messenger, why don't you think about what you posted...

"Because of this post, they may close the (illegal) trail down and no one will be able to ride it (illegally anymore). brilliant of you!"

Hmm...that makes no sense...get over it if you think you are the only one who knows of the trail...

I'm trying to raise some awareness on why the hard work of the stunt builders was destroyed...and how most people had no problem with them...

Oliver said:
Why would you complain about removing stunts from an illegal trail? Thanks for advertising a illegal trail on a public forum. Yes it does suck that someone removed the stunts, but what sucks more is you posting it on a public forum that is highly monitored. Way to go smart guy!

Because of this post, they may close the trail down and no one will be able to ride it. brilliant of you!
 
#5 ·
Im sure the guys who took that stuff down did so in the best interests of the trail. I ride those thing all the time too, but stuff like that just calls attention where attention is not needed. I'd rather be able to ride the trail than those stunts. Its the same with TW, there is no good reason to build stuff on other people's private propety without thier knowledge or permission. Who gets sued if someone breaks their neck? The land owner, especially if he knew about it and didnt take steps to prevent it. Sue everybody!
 
#6 ·
typicalSan Diego Post

Does anyone see a pattern here? It is just the same sheeeet over and over again. I hope more of you show up at the SDMBA MEETING this 20th. This place is pathetic and boring. When are we going to put collective pressure on the managers to allow these sort of stunts. The ones in the tunnel were built by teenagers and were pathetic examples of what needs to exist. Week after week the whining goes on over the removal of some freeride structure. Stop the whining and organize. Become part of the movement to change things in this moronic town. The 20th Mission Trails SDMBA.
 
#7 ·
You Are Right

We need to come in the front door. Lets get stuff OKed before it is illegal. Today I did the wave at the Wavehouse in PB. Puts the crap we see on a mtn bike to shame. Imagine falling off and being swept 8 feet up the face and pounded after going up and over the falls. There were guys getting so radical and it was all taken care of via proper risk management. I could walk in there and ask to speak to the right person to get up to speed on what it takes. In fact I think I will take my own advice. None of you ever take that step. All I ever see is this crap whining. Put up or shut up.
 
#8 ·
taffy15 said:
Does anyone see a pattern here? It is just the same sheeeet over and over again. I hope more of you show up at the SDMBA MEETING this 20th. This place is pathetic and boring. When are we going to put collective pressure on the managers to allow these sort of stunts. The ones in the tunnel were built by teenagers and were pathetic examples of what needs to exist. Week after week the whining goes on over the removal of some freeride structure. Stop the whining and organize. Become part of the movement to change things in this moronic town. The 20th Mission Trails SDMBA.
You are correct. Unfortunatly the cat is outta the bag about this trail. I rode it today and noticed the stunts were removed. A couple of them were well built and actually allow you to pass over the tree trunks without damaging them. I also saw no less than 10 people riding here. I have ridden PQ about 200 times over the past 10 years and I never knew this trail existed until I read about it here and decided to find it. Many others I assume did the same. By posting about it you raise curiosity. That and google earth and our little secret gets attention. A friend tells a friend tells another. The best thing the originators of all these threads can do is keep their pie holes shut on the web. If you want to go to a meeting with land managers and discuss it great. Do that, be a part of the solution. If we really want to help ourselves do like I did today. Take in a large pack each time you ride and fill it with some of that garbage you mentioned. Maybe someone will notice a mountain biker cleaning up that crap. I agree that whoever removed the stunts should've taken the litter first. I will be at mission trails on the 20th. Hope to see some of you there.
 
#9 ·
mxnmtber said:
First...I have given no details of this particular trail other than the existance...

Like the park is that big, that they could not figure it out. Just folllow the hundreds of tracks. That is how I found it.

Second...if you read the forums I am not the first to mention the name...instead of shooting the messenger, why don't you think about what you posted...

I read the forum all the time, just because someone mentioned it before you, it makes it ok? I have thought about it, you are the one that mentioned it again.

"Because of this post, they may close the (illegal) trail down and no one will be able to ride it (illegally anymore). brilliant of you!"

I am not the one who started the thread. You where. If you would have just rode the trail and moved on, none of this would have happened. Instead you took it upon yourself to start this post.

Hmm...that makes no sense...get over it if you think you are the only one who knows of the trail...

Once again, coming on a public forum and making it more obvious.

I'm trying to raise some awareness on why the hard work of the stunt builders was destroyed...and how most people had no problem with them...
What awareness? removal of poorly made stunts?

Anyway, it will be fun riding the trail while it lasts.
 
#10 ·
All these social trails have "social" defacto land/trail managers.

If you did not build the trail network, don't go messing with it, just enjoy it as it is. If you don't know who the underground trail manager is then start asking around offline, like out on the trail. You will find out eventually who it is and then you can find out what is really going on with network and get plugged in. If you did not create it, don't edit it.

Stunts or no-stunts, the trimming of the trees was just plan stupid. If people can't handle and litte bit of twisty tree action then they should get a freaking road bike and get off the trails.
 
#11 ·
mtbbill said:
All these social trails have "social" defacto land/trail managers.

If you did not build the trail network, don't go messing with it, just enjoy it as it is. If you don't know who the underground trail manager is then start asking around offline, like out on the trail. You will find out eventually who it is and then you can find out what is really going on with network and get plugged in. If you did not create it, don't edit it.

Stunts or no-stunts, the trimming of the trees was just plan stupid. If people can't handle and litte bit of twisty tree action then they should get a freaking road bike and get off the trails.
I couldn't have said it better my self Bill, and as far as the bridges are concerned, I am pretty sure it was the owner that removed the bridges, the last time I spoke with the owner he was in the process of clearing the trash out of the Canyon in preparation for transferring the land over to the City in trade for developing some adjacent land on the mesa.
 
#12 ·
TCB said:
I couldn't have said it better my self Bill, and as far as the bridges are concerned, I am pretty sure it was the owner that removed the bridges, the last time I spoke with the owner he was in the process of clearing the trash out of the Canyon in preparation for transferring the land over to the City in trade for developing some adjacent land on the mesa.
If we know who the land owner is we should offer to help him. It would be a real boost to our collective image if we could organize one or 2 days to go down there and haul some of that crap outta there. I own a truck and I would be glad to volunteer my services. Maybe through the sdmba we could do some cleanup in that general area. I am not sure if they would be able to get involved considering the current private status of the land.
 
#14 ·
sandmangts said:
If we know who the land owner is we should offer to help him. It would be a real boost to our collective image if we could organize one or 2 days to go down there and haul some of that crap outta there. I own a truck and I would be glad to volunteer my services. Maybe through the sdmba we could do some cleanup in that general area. I am not sure if they would be able to get involved considering the current private status of the land.
SDMBA is already working on this; I should have more details for you at the SDMBA meeting. Ask for Greg
 
#15 ·
mtbbill said:
Stunts or no-stunts, the trimming of the trees was just plan stupid. If people can't handle and litte bit of twisty tree action then they should get a freaking road bike and get off the trails.
Thank you!!!!! What the heck is up with that?? I heard it happened and when I saw it with my own eyes I was speechless.
 
#16 ·
It probably was the landowner, and there are good reasons why he'd have to remove that stuff --and to hope nobody takes it upon themselves to trim or build anything-- since he's got to swap the land to the City as mitigation credits. If the Rangers, who now know all about both the existing trail network and rumors of ladders and bridges, find evidence of major modifications to the habitat or installations of crap, they can simply reject the land and then the guy is screwed. THAT is not in his best interests, nor in ours. As of now, the Rangers are certainly, definitely, going to look for such things. Ironically, it's more important to clean up "construction" than it is do deal with migrant camp refuse.

The trails themselves are accepted as having been established for a significant time. This means a LOT. Hunker down, don't piss in the soup.
 
#17 ·
mtbbill said:
All these social trails have "social" defacto land/trail managers.

If you did not build the trail network, don't go messing with it, just enjoy it as it is. If you don't know who the underground trail manager is then start asking around offline, like out on the trail. You will find out eventually who it is and then you can find out what is really going on with network and get plugged in. .
very very smart:thumbsup:
 
#18 ·
Not to add fuel to the Fire!!! But...

Last Thursday when we rode the tunnels, there was fresh Horse Cr_p all over 2 of the trails. On the same trails, West end and Stunts, there were all kinds of fresh clippings from the trees that were thrown directly into the middle of the trail. You could already see the hoof prints tearing up the trail.

It is common practice for horseback riders to carry hedge clippers and make head room as they go. We don't own the trails, but it won't be long before the tunnels are pulverized by 2000lb horsey feet.

I know EBasil has fought this battle in the Canyon for years. Can't we have place to play?

DM
 
#19 ·
Dan M said:
Last Thursday when we rode the tunnels, there was fresh Horse Cr_p all over 2 of the trails. On the same trails, West end and Stunts, there were all kinds of fresh clippings from the trees that were thrown directly into the middle of the trail. You could already see the hoof prints tearing up the trail.

It is common practice for horseback riders to carry hedge clippers and make head room as they go. We don't own the trails, but it won't be long before the tunnels are pulverized by 2000lb horsey feet.

I know EBasil has fought this battle in the Canyon for years. Can't we have place to play?

DM
I am with you, The last thing we need is horse F---ing up the trails. I love riding through horse Sh--! They should make the horse use crap bags, so that they do not introduce non-native plants to the trails.

Rant over
 
#20 ·
EBasil said:
It probably was the landowner, and there are good reasons why he'd have to remove that stuff --and to hope nobody takes it upon themselves to trim or build anything-- since he's got to swap the land to the City as mitigation credits. If the Rangers, who now know all about both the existing trail network and rumors of ladders and bridges, find evidence of major modifications to the habitat or installations of crap, they can simply reject the land and then the guy is screwed. THAT is not in his best interests, nor in ours. As of now, the Rangers are certainly, definitely, going to look for such things. Ironically, it's more important to clean up "construction" than it is do deal with migrant camp refuse.

The trails themselves are accepted as having been established for a significant time. This means a LOT. Hunker down, don't piss in the soup.
Once again, EBasil chimes in with a voice of reason and common sense. Well put bro:thumbsup:
 
#21 ·
Ray Dolor said:
I saw that too. In this super-dry year, those horses will pulverize the soft trail into ankle deep powder in no time.

Plus, once the Gentry "discovers" something, they just assume it's theirs.
Another good point. You know, I will probably get flamed for this, and I know they do some good for trails, but man do I loathe horses. They absolutley destroy most trails they frequent. My home trail has some sections that are unridable all because of horses. And to think we get blamed for riding after a rain. I always see fresh "post holes" after a rain comes through. I wait for it to dry, why can't they??

Now I know I'm generalizing and not all horse riders are this way, but it sure seems to be the norm.
 
#22 ·
DSDuke said:
Another good point. You know, I will probably get flamed for this, and I know they do some good for trails, but man do I loathe horses. They absolutley destroy most trails they frequent. My home trail has some sections that are unridable all because of horses. And to think we get blamed for riding after a rain. I always see fresh "post holes" after a rain comes through. I wait for it to dry, why can't they??

Now I know I'm generalizing and not all horse riders are this way, but it sure seems to be the norm.
The horses have to be tearing up the trails that contained the said stunts. They were all pretty loose in sections, and with the lack of rain, they're only gonna get worse with tons of hoofprints!

Doug - I totally agree on the post-rain thing. Without fail on some trails I *always* see hoof prints in the mud, but very rarely do I see tire tracks or footprints. I think they probably go "Oh, the bikers and runners/hikers are all being responsible and staying off the trails - let's go ride 'em!! They'll be empty today!" Our local trail (SRP) has many big holes in the dirt (makes for a really bumpy ride) from horses, and there are usually prints left after rains.
 
#23 ·
aword4you said:
The horses have to be tearing up the trails that contained the said stunts. They were all pretty loose in sections, and with the lack of rain, they're only gonna get worse with tons of hoofprints!

Doug - I totally agree on the post-rain thing. Without fail on some trails I *always* see hoof prints in the mud, but very rarely do I see tire tracks or footprints. I think they probably go "Oh, the bikers and runners/hikers are all being responsible and staying off the trails - let's go ride 'em!! They'll be empty today!" Our local trail (SRP) has many big holes in the dirt (makes for a really bumpy ride) from horses, and there are usually prints left after rains.
The riders on thier horses, neither have to exert any additional energy or get dirty to go through muddy or wet conditions. They are blissfully three feet or so above it all. (This might be a clue as to the tree trimming since your average horse rider needs nine feet or so of vertical clearance and a horses A$$ is wider than any bike handlebar.) I'm sure some of them think that post holeing and pulverizing the trail will just make the trail better as it will be less appealing to use. The folks out at St George had it right with this sign.

 
#26 ·
c'mon guys... quit raggin' on the horses. you gotta love the sweet pungent aroma of horse poo (everywhere)?

i particularly love when i come through a corner, run over a pile, and a small chunk-o-poo hooks into my front tire lofting it at my face. just as i'm on the "o" crying noooooooo in slow motion... swoosh... 2 points. damn.

i love the posted pictures. why is socal so damn lame??
 
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