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  1. #1
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    Speed Limit: 15mph ?

    Nowhere on the trail signs does it state a speed limit but I was kindly informed that 15mph is the maximum limit. Yeah I was booking it and exceeding that by a good amount but I had a clear view of the trail and no one was in sight. Yet I reach the bottom and an official informs me that I could be cited yet they couldn't say how fast I was going. Can he really do that?

    FWIW I never pass people at anything greater than 6mph. Mostly because they are inattentive and even if you call out to them they get startled and jump all around like a chicken with their head cut off.

    This particular district seems anti biker for a number of reasons. I may very well give up riding here as a result. I guess besides my rant I'm wondering if they can cite me for being in excess of the limit without noting the speed I was actually traveling (26mph according to my garmin).

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    Quote Originally Posted by KidConejo View Post
    Nowhere on the trail signs does it state a speed limit but I was kindly informed that 15mph is the maximum limit. Yeah I was booking it and exceeding that by a good amount but I had a clear view of the trail and no one was in sight. Yet I reach the bottom and an official informs me that I could be cited yet they couldn't say how fast I was going. Can he really do that?

    FWIW I never pass people at anything greater than 6mph. Mostly because they are inattentive and even if you call out to them they get startled and jump all around like a chicken with their head cut off.

    This particular district seems anti biker for a number of reasons. I may very well give up riding here as a result. I guess besides my rant I'm wondering if they can cite me for being in excess of the limit without noting the speed I was actually traveling (26mph according to my garmin).
    where is this? yes multi use trails do have a 15mph limit in theory. good that you play it cautious around hikers- it only takes a few complaints to get trails closed. however no one can site you without an actual speed gun and i believe they would have to tell you its being used like in Marin. There are many trails in the Santa monicas where i rarely see anyone but you have to choose your routes carefully on the weekends.

  3. #3
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    They've been using radar guns in Sycamore Cyn., Ventura County for at least 20 years. ****ers!!

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    Where was this? What kind of "official", Ranger, Police Officer??

    I once had a Police Officer who was riding a dirt bike in Calavera mention the 15mph speed limit to me.... I was sorta astounded he was riding a dirt bike in a nature preserve where Dirt Bikes are not allowed... but whatever.
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  5. #5
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    Most OC County Parks have a 10 MPH speed limit. It is clearly stated on all the Kiosk Boards through out the park.

    It is also listed on each park website under information.
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  6. #6
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    Has anyone here actually been cited for a speed violation on a trail?

    Typically you can go to the website of whatever agency that overseas the area and find their ruleset. Kiosk boards/signage on a majority of trails in certain counties have no mention of speed limit but it still exists.

    Furthermore they seem to adopt a vague language of maintaining a "reasonably safe speed". This means they can cite you should they deem it unsafe even if you are below any maximum speed limit. While I've never been cited on any trail I have received such a citation on public roads even though I was traveling under the posted speed limit. The officer decided that it was an unsafe speed given conditions. No inclement weather or road obstructions but the judge arbitrarily decided that the officer's judgement superseded mine even though he would not elaborate on what conditions made my speed unsafe except for it being night time.

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    At 10 mph might as well not even ride a bike anymore. How can there be such restrictive speed limits out in nature on trails? Most the trails I ride hardly have any people and yet Im sure some dick officer would try to give me a ticket. Soon paved roads with speed limits, speed bumps and signs everywhere will be all we have left to ride... At least we can jump the speed bumps! (Until they put a No jumping speed bumps! sign.)

  8. #8
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    Not sure I've noticed any speed limit signs on LA or Ventura county trails. I don't think I've seen any signs on the bike path here in Valencia either.

  9. #9
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    The trail speed limit in Los Angeles County (not sure about other counties, though) unless posted otherwise (less) is 15mph. It's been the law all along and everyone is expected to know this.

    I was once informed by an "official", aka, a Park Ranger.

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    Hard to obey speed limits when you don't have a speedometer...


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by unaware View Post
    Has anyone here actually been cited for a speed violation on a trail?
    I just kept going, both times. I had 9 miles of slight DH in front of me, so I said **** it. However, if there are hikers or horses around, I ride respectfully.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I just kept going, both times. I had 9 miles of slight DH in front of me, so I said **** it. However, if there are hikers or horses around, I ride respectfully.
    Sure it's all fun and games until one of them gets your license plate. You do have a license plate on your bicycle don't you?

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatsDirt View Post
    Hard to obey speed limits when you don't have a speedometer...

    An experienced cyclist like yourself knows EXACTLY what it feels like to move at 14.5mph. Any amount you push it beyond 15 mph is all on pure personal willpower.

    Perhaps the US Govt will pass a law that requires all bikes to have a speed governor. You guys would love that, huh?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Sure it's all fun and games until one of them gets your license plate. You do have a license plate on your bicycle don't you?

    Yes, I do! It hangs below my reflector and it says EAT****. And, that is no way directed towards you. I like DJ!

  15. #15
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    I don't think my average speed has ever exceeded 15 MPH.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by outside! View Post
    I don't think my average speed has ever exceeded 15 MPH.
    I'm pretty sure the Rangers don't care about your average speed. However, I care. I'm a very caring individual. If you need to talk about it, feel free to PM me.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by outside! View Post
    I don't think my average speed has ever exceeded 15 MPH.
    Averages have nothing to do with riding over a posted speedlimit for even a few seconds.... That is what is wrong with Speed limits, they are an arbitrary number thought up by some lawmaker who has never rider a bike before....

    If everyone would just be nice to other trail users there would be no need for stupid laws like this. But unfortunately one or two self centered people will always do something to irk others, whether that be a bike rider blasting by a pedestrian, a group of pedestrians walking abreast and blocking the entire trail, a hiker/running wearing two earbuds and not moving for you as you come up behind them because they can't hear anything but the music they are listening too, an equestrian rider allowing their horse to dump huge loads that fill up all the usable track on a single track, and not cleaning it up, Morons with dogs off-leash.......

    If everyone followed the Golden Rule this would not be an issue, but this society tends to be very self centered, me-first type attitudes and that causes conflict.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Averages have nothing to do with riding over a posted speedlimit for even a few seconds.... That is what is wrong with Speed limits, they are an arbitrary number thought up by some lawmaker who has never rider a bike before....

    If everyone would just be nice to other trail users there would be no need for stupid laws like this. But unfortunately one or two self centered people will always do something to irk others, whether that be a bike rider blasting by a pedestrian, a group of pedestrians walking abreast and blocking the entire trail, a hiker/running wearing two earbuds and not moving for you as you come up behind them because they can't hear anything but the music they are listening too, an equestrian rider allowing their horse to dump huge loads that fill up all the usable track on a single track, and not cleaning it up, Morons with dogs off-leash.......

    If everyone followed the Golden Rule this would not be an issue, but this society tends to be very self centered, me-first type attitudes and that causes conflict.
    100% in agreement on all of that ^^.
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  19. #19
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    If you ever come up to Norcal, the Midpeninsula Open Space parks (including Skeggs), occasionally enforce a 15 mph limit. They use radar guns! Most people get off with a warning, but they will give you a ticket (especially if you give them lip), and it ain´t cheap.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Averages have nothing to do with riding over a posted speedlimit for even a few seconds.... That is what is wrong with Speed limits, they are an arbitrary number thought up by some lawmaker who has never rider a bike before....

    If everyone would just be nice to other trail users there would be no need for stupid laws like this. But unfortunately one or two self centered people will always do something to irk others, whether that be a bike rider blasting by a pedestrian, a group of pedestrians walking abreast and blocking the entire trail, a hiker/running wearing two earbuds and not moving for you as you come up behind them because they can't hear anything but the music they are listening too, an equestrian rider allowing their horse to dump huge loads that fill up all the usable track on a single track, and not cleaning it up, Morons with dogs off-leash.......

    If everyone followed the Golden Rule this would not be an issue, but this society tends to be very self centered, me-first type attitudes and that causes conflict.
    Now, if everyone followed the golden rules, we wouldn't have rules, laws, cops, courts, jails, forest rangers and all that stuff. What would all those people do for work?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Now, if everyone followed the golden rules, we wouldn't have rules, laws, cops, courts, jails, forest rangers and all that stuff. What would all those people do for work?
    Who cares what they would do for work, they should just get bike and ride!

  22. #22
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    I'd assume no ticket would stand in court with out some way of proof you where speeding. Still America right?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by baja07 View Post
    I'd assume no ticket would stand in court with out some way of proof you where speeding. Still America right?
    WRONG. A peace officer can issue a citation simply stating that you were traveling at an "unsafe speed".

    But you could plead not guilty and have a trail date and HOPE TO GOD that the issuing officer doesn't show up on the trial date.

    Is it worth that much trouble?

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    depends on how much the ticket is

  25. #25
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    How long until there's a law about how much horse**** is acceptable on the trails??

    Sorry, i really despise most equestrians. they come off as rude, elitist nimbies.
    nothing witty here...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    How long until there's a law about how much horse**** is acceptable on the trails??

    Sorry, i really despise most equestrians. they come off as rude, elitist nimbies.

    To say that most equestrians are "rude, elitist nimbies," is as ignorant as to say most mtbrs are rude a-holes that only care about themselves while out on the trail. Are there equestrians that are a-holes? Sure. Are there MTBR's that a-holes too? Yes.

    As for the 15 mph law just like about this: How do we come off when we run a hiker off a trail?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    How long until there's a law about how much horse**** is acceptable on the trails??

    Sorry, i really despise most equestrians. they come off as rude, elitist nimbies.

    To say that most equestrians are "rude, elitist nimbies," is as ignorant as to say most MTBR's are rude a-holes that only care about themselves while out on the trail. Are there equestrians that are a-holes? Sure. Are there MTBR's that a-holes too? Yes.

    As for the 15 mph law just like about this: How do we come off when we run a hiker off a trail?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by R38 View Post
    To say that most equestrians are "rude, elitist nimbies," is as ignorant as to say most MTBR's are rude a-holes that only care about themselves while out on the trail. Are there equestrians that are a-holes? Sure. Are there MTBR's that a-holes too? Yes.
    I'm not a horse rider but I know lots of horse people since my area is adjacent to horse properties.

    I have encountered far more disrespectful mountain bikers over the years than I have equestrian riders.

    But I can say with confidence that I have seen less idiot, disrespectful mountain bikers in the past year or so. I think the mtn biking community is starting to wake up. Starting to see we must be considerate to all others who we encounter.

    I never hear anyone shouting "STRAVA!!!" anymore.

    98% of the time, a downhill rider who is fast approaching either stops to let me continue my climb or makes room for each of us to continue, as do I. It was worse in recent history.

  29. #29
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    I live in an equestrian area and there's a lot of fatties on those poor ponies!

    I think the "STRAVA!" yelling is a bit of a myth, never once heard anyone tell that and I've ridden around plenty of racer types on OC trails.
    "Imagine being able to travel safely at incredibly fast speeds, and not having to go to the stupid fartface airports!"

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor Ochmonek View Post
    I live in an equestrian area and there's a lot of fatties on those poor ponies!

    I think the "STRAVA!" yelling is a bit of a myth, never once heard anyone tell that and I've ridden around plenty of racer types on OC trails.
    I have heard it yelled my way twice over the years (way back when STRAVA first became popular) and I have seen it shouted in at least one video. Whether the rider yelling it the video was trying to be funny or not, it's disturbing and rude, nonetheless.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Where was this? What kind of "official", Ranger, Police Officer??

    I once had a Police Officer who was riding a dirt bike in Calavera mention the 15mph speed limit to me.... I was sorta astounded he was riding a dirt bike in a nature preserve where Dirt Bikes are not allowed... but whatever.
    He he mention the infamous pole-leese motto , "Do what I say, not as I do"?
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post

    I never hear anyone shouting "STRAVA!!!" anymore.
    thats too bad, I enjoy hearing that and quickly get weed wacker nylon string and post it across the trail so I can hear them yell "YAAVAH!" as they STRAVA
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  33. #33
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    There must be a rumor going around about speed traps down in Big Sycamore Canyon (Santa Monica Mtns). Everyone was watching their back, being careful not to exceed the posted 15mph speed limit. Maybe this thread has everyone on edge??

  34. #34
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    Lol...where would the rangers be posted? On the side of the BB?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Lol...where would the rangers be posted? On the side of the BB?
    At the bridge at the bottom of the steep paved hill.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Lol...where would the rangers be posted? On the side of the BB?
    Yes, like MCS says, at the bottom of the Black B!tch near the bridge.

    Also, in full camo attire (bushes attached to the helmet) hidden about the trail systems there.

    I will openly admit that I more than doubled the speed limit during my trek through there and no hikers were killed.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post

    I will openly admit that I more than doubled the speed limit during my trek through there and no hikers were killed.
    Hawgster, you're naughty!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    thats too bad, I enjoy hearing that and quickly get weed wacker nylon string and post it across the trail so I can hear them yell "YAAVAH!" as they STRAVA
    While you probably think you're clever, in reality that's beyond stupid and malicious.

    You are the epitome of an asshat.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    thats too bad, I enjoy hearing that and quickly get weed wacker nylon string and post it across the trail so I can hear them yell "YAAVAH!" as they STRAVA
    lol, what a douchebag even if you meant it in jest.
    nothing witty here...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Dunlop01 View Post
    depends on how much the ticket is
    With court fees it will be in excess of $300 at least according to the ranger I spoke with.


    So in addition to the speed limit there does appear to be wording that says you have to keep a reasonable or safe speed and that is based on the judgement of whatever official decides to cite you. You could ride past someone else at 5mph and they can deem that an unsafe speed. One particular Ranger said that proper etiquette requires you to dismount and walk your bike past slower traffic if they are headed in the same direction as you. If they are headed in the opposite direction you are supposed to some to a complete stop and let them pass you. This is all very arbitrary and stupid.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    How long until there's a law about how much horse**** is acceptable on the trails??

    Sorry, i really despise most equestrians. they come off as rude, elitist nimbies.
    The majority of equestrian riders I encounter on the trails here are like that. Then again these trails are single track and on the side of a hill so the other side is 100 foot drop. Combine that with their skittish horse and they really have no business being on these type of trails. There are a number of equestrian parks and trails around here so they should stick to those. But being the self entitled buttholes some of them are they feel the need to ride wherever they possibly can even if it poses significant risk to everyone on the trail. I guess the same could be said for MTBers too though

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KidConejo View Post
    So in addition to the speed limit there does appear to be wording that says you have to keep a reasonable or safe speed and that is based on the judgement of whatever official decides to cite you. You could ride past someone else at 5mph and they can deem that an unsafe speed. One particular Ranger said that proper etiquette requires you to dismount and walk your bike past slower traffic if they are headed in the same direction as you. If they are headed in the opposite direction you are supposed to some to a complete stop and let them pass you. This is all very arbitrary and stupid.

    I would love for a ranger or police officer to demonstrate on earth that is supposed to work, dismount and walk past someone going in the SAME direction? Whomever comes up with this has ZERO common sense.

    Simply ring your bike bell and watch the Pedestrians move aside so you can safely pass on your bike....

    /facepalm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I would love for a ranger or police officer to demonstrate on earth that is supposed to work, dismount and walk past someone going in the SAME direction? Whomever comes up with this has ZERO common sense.


    Simply ring your bike bell and watch the Pedestrians move aside so you can safely pass on your bike....

    /facepalm
    Can you recommend a particular bike bell? I had a couple cheap Chinese ones but they aren't loud enough from a distance of say 20ft.

    But the real problem is people just don't pay attention. Anyone by them self typically has headphones in or is gabbing away on the phone so they are oblivious to their surroundings. People in groups are talking to each other in addition to also completely blocking the path. On the rare occasion there's a singular person who isn't distracted they seem confused by the sound. Maybe I ring it too far away but they seem to faintly hear it and stare skywards wondering what that sound is. It's not until I'm 10ft from them that they bother looking around and then freak out at the sight of me and decide to jump right in front of me for whatever reason. I think part of the problem is the ringing sound kinda echos so you can't locate where it's coming from.

    I did have a cheap Chinese electric horn and that worked pretty well. People could hear it from 30ft away or more. And more importantly they could locate where it was coming from so they would stand on the edge of the path and let you pass. But I also found most people don't like being honked at so they typically had a dirty look on their face, particularly older people. Also the sound was loud enough that it would startle some people and that's not good. It also broke being cheap plastic.

    But yeah, the logic some of the rangers employ is quite baffling.

  43. #43
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    I am currently in the market for a new bell, my last one was just a cheap "ring ring" bell. Similar to this:



    But I think my next one will be a bear bell with a magnet so I can have it ringing only when I need it to be. The bear bells are good because they make sound for a while leading up the pass.

    But really the "Ring Ring" created a magical parting of the peoples when I rang it on approach.
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    I've also found that the "ring ring" sound seems harder for people to locate which direction it is coming from. Sadly, shouting is the most effective even if the person does not understand what you said. They recognize it as language and thus someone is approaching so get out of the way. Other sounds just confound them. First they wonder if they actually heard it, then they wonder where the sound is coming from, and lastly once they locate it they wonder what they should do.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by unaware View Post
    I've also found that the "ring ring" sound seems harder for people to locate which direction it is coming from. Sadly, shouting is the most effective even if the person does not understand what you said. They recognize it as language and thus someone is approaching so get out of the way. Other sounds just confound them. First they wonder if they actually heard it, then they wonder where the sound is coming from, and lastly once they locate it they wonder what they should do.
    Really? That is very interesting as I have had the exact opposite experience myself, Shouting works about 50% of the time whereas the "Ring Ring" works 100% of the time. Are your trails heavily wooded? I can only imagine it has to do with how the sound is traveling in your area. Here in SoCal most of the trails just have low lying scrub around them, so unless there is high wind, sound is very easy to identify directionally because nothing is blocking or bouncing it around.
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  46. #46
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    Hope this don't happen around here,

    http://www.tetongravity.com/story/ge...alifornia-park

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    Hope this don't happen around here,

    http://www.tetongravity.com/story/ge...alifornia-park
    They probably hit those speeds only because they were recording it on STRAVA. And someone will almost certainly poach the now closed trail and post it up on STRAVA. They should have just banned STRAVA from the park. Problem solved regardless.

    Also, could someone create some stock photos for mountain biking that show old people on mountain bikes riding slowly and with great trepidation? If you are a badass, please don't let anyone take pictures of you in action. Thanks much.

  48. #48
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    Get one of those authentic sleigh bells. They're loud as hell, but curiously pleasant-sounding.

    Being quite heavy, they can be re-purposed as a defensive weapon, wrapped in a sock or maybe an Awesome Strap, for use against charging bears or stravaholes.
    "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
    -- Robert A. Heinlein

  49. #49
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    As far as bells go the best one I've found is made by a local guy in Newbury Park. CWB Designs is the name of his little business an the web page is awareness bell dot com. The ringer is on a spring that latches on to the rim of the bell to turn it off. I have one of the bear bells with the magnet and that thing is so quiet compared to the awareness bell people wouldn't even hear it sometimes.
    I also have an Incredibell on my bars that is just a loud dinger that i use for climbing to warn hikers I'm coming up behind.

  50. #50
    Now, THAT'S gonna hurt!
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
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    I don't necessarily want to be the one to do it but I'm pretty certain trail speeds could be challenged. Remember, roads have to be surveyed and studied every 5 years and lawfully warranted to set a specific speed limit. Also, the radar changes the game in some respect, but a Peace Officer must be trained at judging speeds in all circumstances to become an "expert witness" allowing them to determine your speed was unsafe. Are these Rangers getting certified in this training? Are trail speeds surveyed and warranted? I think someone could blow a lot of holes in a case like that and it's only going to take one challenge and a win for a rider to upset the apple cart with enforcement. It's going to cost agencies MONEY. I question whether the training even exists on that level but I could be wrong. I think the only strong case would be for radar use as long as a trained user is operating it. Even then, who determines the speed? What means were used to determine speeds. Lots of holes for a astute attorney to take apart, IMO.
    Always ride with a purpose.

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