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  1. #1
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    Rock-it...pay attention if you are riding up it!

    Too everyone who likes to ride up trails that most people ride down, and likely ride down quite fast.....pay attention! I was going down Rock-it today quite fast as usual (as many people do) and I came around a blind corner and some rider is climbing right in my path and didn't even hear me coming. Of course he was almost surprised as I was and because of my speed neither of us had much time to react and the only thing I could do to avoid running his a$$ over was to grab way to much front brake (and rear brake) and go crashing off the side of the trail into a sharp bush that cut my leg all up. He didn't even get touched or hurt at all. I was nice to him on the trail as it was an accident and I needed him to help pull me out of the bush, but afterward was a little ticked that the incident even happened. Luckily I didn't get seriously injured, just cuts all over my leg, and it could have been a lot worse. My only point is that if you are climbing a trail that most people come flying down, you better not be listening to an iPod and you better be paying close attention! I know Rock-it isn't the only trail this happens on, so there are many other trails this will apply to. I might get a bell for my bike so the deaf can hear me coming!

    P.S. The other thing that made me a bit angry is that he said "I thought I could hear something above the wind, but I wasn't sure." Next time you might want to pay a little more attention because if you heard some chain slap and rattling above the wind, it's probably because a bike is flying down the trail and is about to take you and him both out!

  2. #2
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    Although that sucks, up hill riders do have the right of way, no matter how fast you are coming down the hill. I know, I would like to see up hill riders yield to me when I am coming down fast, but you could have slowed down for a blind corner. That sounds sensible to me.

    Just remember, that hardly any trails if any are designated for downhill only at Aliso, so it is your responsibility to ride in control, and look out for riders coming up.

  3. #3
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    That's why you gotta slow down on blind corners. I hate assclowns that listen to their MP3 players when they snowboard or bike. I think it is 50/50 in terms of fault. Rider climbing up has the right of way and you didn't slow down for a blind corner. His ass was not paying attention.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver
    Although that sucks, up hill riders do have the right of way, no matter how fast you are coming down the hill. I know, I would like to see up hill riders yield to me when I am coming down fast, but you could have slowed down for a blind corner. That sounds sensible to me.

    Just remember, that hardly any trails if any are designated for downhill only at Aliso, so it is your responsibility to ride in control, and look out for riders coming up.
    I didn't realize climbers had the right of way. That seems pretty dumb since they are usually going far slower and should be able to hear someone coming down. Maybe I need to slow down around blind corners, but then the downhill trails wouldn't be near as fun as many corners are blind! Since so many trails are blind, I feel like I'd have to go so slow it wouldn't be that fun anymore. Btw, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to climb trails such as Rock-it, I'm just saying to get the **** out of the way if you hear someone bombing down....but apparently I'm mistaken and should yield to their slow a$$es

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locomoto
    I didn't realize climbers had the right of way. That seems pretty dumb since they are usually going far slower and should be able to hear someone coming down. Maybe I need to slow down around blind corners, but then the downhill trails wouldn't be near as fun as many corners are blind! Since so many trails are blind, I feel like I'd have to go so slow it wouldn't be that fun anymore. Btw, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to climb trails such as Rock-it, I'm just saying to get the **** out of the way if you hear someone bombing down....but apparently I'm mistaken and should yield to their slow a$$es
    It does suck, but it is the rule of thumb is that the rider going up does have the right away. Then again, it is pretty dangerous to where an iPod while riding, you cannot hear people coming. A friend off mine got into a head-on with another rider in the same spot, and had to got the hospital with a head injury. Just scrub some speed before the blind corners.

  6. #6
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    Yep, get a bell, it helps a great deal on the DH, esp the multi-user trails. A general rule of thumb adopted by IMBA is that uphill has the right of way. I do listen to an mp3 player occasionally as I travel uphill but when I approach a blind corner I stick close to the inside. This is a pretty good idea esp. on those trails that are frequented by DH'ers. So live and learn.
    Stay safe out there!

  7. #7
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    I think this is really a common sense issue and should not be a big deal for people traveling in either direction.

    When going downhill.....riders need to ride at a speed that is conducive to the trail (which the fact that it is a public multi-use and multi-directional trail plays a big part).

    I don't see the particular issue from the original poster being as much an issue of Uphill vs Downhill, as an issue of riding too fast into blind turns. What if it was a trail runner, a hiker, or a family hiking up the trail? A biker hitting a runner or hiker on a trail would be completely inexcusable. Downhill speed needs to be scrubbed as needed at sections where there is a good likelihood of running into another trail user.

    As far as uphill vs downhill right-of-way......it's true that the general rule of thumb (not a cast-in-stone rule) is that the uphill rider has the right-of-way.

    That being said however......when I ride up trails like Rock-It, Lynx, Rattlesnake, and Old Emerald; I always ride with an ear to the trail ahead and listen for riders coming down. I give a heads up shout when I hear someone coming down if they cannot see me; and on certain trails like Lynx, Rattlesnake, and Old Emerald; I yield the right-of-way to the downhill riders since most people don't expect riders to be climbing these trails.

    Just practice some common sense and common courtesies, and we can avoid a lot of these issues.

    Again.......remember that bikers are not the only trail users, and many other users go up Rock-It......so always scrub your speed on the blinds.

    Just some thoughts.


    Thanks!

  8. #8
    Chillin the Most
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    While I agree that it s*cks you can't bomb trails top to bottom, I do believe there are enough sections on most trails that can be bombed to still make them fun. Keep in mind, that while bells help, they cannot make up for good ole fashion trail etiquette.

    This is another reason why I believe Aliso NEEDS DH specific, one way, trails.

  9. #9
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    I think everyone has made some good points and I'm sure I need to be a little more cautious around the blind corners. I have ridden Rock-it many times and RARELY have seen people climbing up which is why I was so caught off guard. Didn't help that he was riding on the outside corner...the exact line I was taking and he even initially jumped in that direction only to make matters worse. I'll be more careful and good to know that climbers have the right away. That being said, I'll never climb a trail that is primarily ridden down without being very attentive and cautious of those that will likely be bombing down. I actually think it's quite stupid not to, even if the climber has the right of way. Live and learn I guess. I'm just glad I didn't get hurt worse than a bunch of cuts on my leg!

  10. #10
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    I've bombed rock-it as hard as I can, then turned around and climbed right back up it so that i could do it again. I have a bell, and use it going uphill and downhill on blind corners. That said, on a trail like that I wouldn't listen to music whether hiking or riding. It's just not safe. You have to be aware of your surroundings, not insulated from them.
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  11. #11
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    PSA for bells...

    Never rode Rock-it. Is it a multi-user trail? If it is then I would def. say get a bell. With that said, a bell doesn't give you right of way, it just makes the jarring sensation of a DH biker abruptly appearing around a corner not so jarring to the guy, horse, family, et.al. coming up. Most users kind of curiously anticipate the noise coming towards them, wondering if a herd of goats is coming down. I still pull over for other trail users going up or down even with a bell, which is also a good idea.

    Of course I'm coming from SB which pretty much invented the "bike bell"; sponsored by Kona and now the Big S. But before the sponsors I bought my bell at bird shops, they are just gold "bird bells". They are a little "tingy" compared to a genuine "bike bell" but they aren't overly so IMO.

    EDIT: Dug up a previous posted pic on your other thread Loco: Notice the white bell hanging off the bars. Perfect compliment to my Abe Frohman.

    DCP_2014.JPG
    Last edited by mouse jockey; 03-17-2008 at 08:10 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locomoto
    I didn't realize climbers had the right of way. That seems pretty dumb since they are usually going far slower and should be able to hear someone coming down. Maybe I need to slow down around blind corners, but then the downhill trails wouldn't be near as fun as many corners are blind! Since so many trails are blind, I feel like I'd have to go so slow it wouldn't be that fun anymore. Btw, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to climb trails such as Rock-it, I'm just saying to get the **** out of the way if you hear someone bombing down....but apparently I'm mistaken and should yield to their slow a$$es
    you didn't know uphill has the right of way? where have you been, on marz? tons of people climb rocket, and also many hikers. your lucky he even helped you out of the bush, many would just of pedeled on as it was your fault. buy a clue.

  13. #13
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    Ah phuck, here we go! Get over it, those climbing have the right away!

    Were all doomed.

    "I didn't realize climbers had the right of way. That seems pretty dumb since they are usually going far slower and should be able to hear someone coming down. Maybe I need to slow down around blind corners, but then the downhill trails wouldn't be near as fun as many corners are blind! Since so many trails are blind, I feel like I'd have to go so slow it wouldn't be that fun anymore. Btw, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to climb trails such as Rock-it, I'm just saying to get the **** out of the way if you hear someone bombing down....but apparently I'm mistaken and should yield to their slow a$$es "

    Are you serious? Your writing this hot head bad ass story of bombing DH and you have yet to learn etiquette, Pull your head out your ass before you ruin it for all of us!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmike00
    Ah phuck, here we go! Get over it, those climbing have the right away!

    Were all doomed.

    Are you serious? Your writing this hot head bad ass story of bombing DH and you have yet to learn etiquette, Pull your head out your ass before you ruin it for all of us!
    Read the thread a little more, he has learned the error of his ways. Now he knows. You tell people how to do things with out being an A$$.

  15. #15
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    Bombing downhill like you were doing out of control is the reson bike get banned from trials, and you know what, I agree with them. You have to ride under control and be able to stop at all times. If you don't have the line of sight you have to assume somone or something is around that blind corner and ride at a slow enough speed that allows you to stop.

  16. #16
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    Uphillers have the right of way, but sometimes they'll yield for the downhill rider.

    If I see someone "bombing" down a trail, I feel safer about pulling off and letting them pass by. I ask "how many riders back?" (behind) him, and I let him know how many riders are behind me as well. Be courteous!
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  17. #17
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    I ride Aliso a lot and always climb rock-it. IMHO, it is the easiest way up and fun to boot. I see lots of hikers and riders going up it too (It gets crowded after 8AM on weekends). So be careful when going down it specially in the single track section up top and on the rocks.

    Uphill riders have the right of way as it is not always as easy to change direction, get out of the way or bail when going up a steep, narrow or techy section even if you hear someone coming. It's also more difficult to get back on the bike.

    Generally, if you want to bomb down rock-it or any of the multi use trails, go really early (before 7AM) to avoid climbers.
    Last edited by SCUBAPRO; 03-17-2008 at 11:16 AM.
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  18. #18
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    It seems the OP has learned. BigBadMike needs to learn how to communicate with human beings.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  19. #19
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    Good points!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudd
    Uphillers have the right of way, but sometimes they'll yield for the downhill rider.

    If I see someone "bombing" down a trail, I feel safer about pulling off and letting them pass by. I ask "how many riders back?" (behind) him, and I let him know how many riders are behind me as well. Be courteous!
    I used to do some dirt bike riding. With a motor and full face helmet, you can't always hear, so you have to assume someone or something is around the corner you can't see around.

    It's also good etiquette to call out or hold up fingers for how many riders there are behind you if you know.

  20. #20
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    MJ,

    Did you make it up to the land of the windstorm (SB) this weekend?

  21. #21
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    I am almost always yielded to when I am coming down.

    Not because Im rude or out of control, but I think because either a) they dont think Im going to stop- which I do, or b) because they understand that theyre only going 3 mph and Im going much, much faster. In other words they are just being reasonable.

    Likewise, when Im going uphill, I also will yield to a fast moving rider. It just seems easier and safer for both of us.

    I think this is post is similar to the argument that while road bikers have a right to the road, sometimes they ride side by side like unsafe, inconvenience causing dirt-bags.

    There is a difference between "right" and smart, and often they are contradictory.

    In the end, we make the rules, they dont make us. I think one should do what works best for the situation regardless of any rules.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    you didn't know uphill has the right of way? where have you been, on marz? tons of people climb rocket, and also many hikers. your lucky he even helped you out of the bush, many would just of pedeled on as it was your fault. buy a clue.
    I've only really been mountain biking for about a year and a half...maybe a little more. That is probably why I didn't know dick head. Now I know and will be more careful in the future, but thanks for the retarded response

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmike00
    Ah phuck, here we go! Get over it, those climbing have the right away!

    Were all doomed.

    "I didn't realize climbers had the right of way. That seems pretty dumb since they are usually going far slower and should be able to hear someone coming down. Maybe I need to slow down around blind corners, but then the downhill trails wouldn't be near as fun as many corners are blind! Since so many trails are blind, I feel like I'd have to go so slow it wouldn't be that fun anymore. Btw, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to climb trails such as Rock-it, I'm just saying to get the **** out of the way if you hear someone bombing down....but apparently I'm mistaken and should yield to their slow a$$es "

    Are you serious? Your writing this hot head bad ass story of bombing DH and you have yet to learn etiquette, Pull your head out your ass before you ruin it for all of us!
    I agree that you could use a little more tact in your communication bigmike. Sorry I didn't take the mountain bike etiquette course like you apparently did, but am learning from experience. I wouldn't say my head was in my a$$, I just always got out of the way when I was climbing and others were bombing downhill so I figured others would do the same. It's not like I'm an idiot and don't know how to ride a bike, I come from a motocross racing background, I just haven't learned all the mountain biking rules/etiquette yet which comes with experience just like I'm sure yours did.

  24. #24
    Chillin the Most
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galamoor
    Bombing downhill like you were doing out of control is the reson bike get banned from trials, and you know what, I agree with them. You have to ride under control and be able to stop at all times. If you don't have the line of sight you have to assume somone or something is around that blind corner and ride at a slow enough speed that allows you to stop.
    First off let's do away with this misconception that just because someone is bombing downhill and cannot stop on a dime that they're somehow out of control. To say things like this only helps support the theory that MTB'rs are somehow reckless, which I doubt is the case in most instances.

    However, I do agree that riders need to be more cautious when riding multi use trails, especially those like the OP described - containing blind corners and such.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    First off let's do away with this misconception that just because someone is bombing downhill and cannot stop on a dime that they're somehow out of control. To say things like this only helps support the theory that MTB'rs are somehow reckless, which I doubt is the case in most instances.

    However, I do agree that riders need to be more cautious when riding multi use trails, especially those like the OP described - containing blind corners and such.
    I agree....I wasn't out of control, just unable to stop on a dime around a blind corner. As I've learned, according to proper etiquette I was going too fast for that particular spot.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    First off let's do away with this misconception that just because someone is bombing downhill and cannot stop on a dime that they're somehow out of control. To say things like this only helps support the theory that MTB'rs are somehow reckless, which I doubt is the case in most instances.
    Nobody said anything about stopping on a dime, just riding in control. (note: riding "in control" means you are taking into account current trail conditions, sight lines, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Locomoto
    I was going down Rock-it today quite fast as usual (as many people do) and I came around a blind corner and some rider is climbing right in my path and didn't even hear me coming. Of course he was almost surprised as I was and because of my speed neither of us had much time to react and the only thing I could do to avoid running his a$$ over was to grab way to much front brake (and rear brake) and go crashing off the side of the trail into a sharp bush that cut my leg all up.
    That doesn't sound to me like he was riding in control. If he were able to stop or at least slow down enough to avoid a crash or collision it would be a different story. Riding in a manner that requires one to crash into bushes off the trail to avoid hitting responsible trail users IS the kind of thing that fosters ill will towards mountain bikers and DOES get trails closed to us.

    Now he knows, and knowing is half the battle. - G.I. Joe

  27. #27
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    Lots of good points floating through the BS. I am an XC guy so yes I ride up, but then the fun begins and look out cause we are hauling butt down. It does seem weird that uphill has the right of way but not when your putting everything you have to get up the hill. However when I head down I have to realize that there might be someone coming up. Still if I am smart I do not ride up a trial that usually has people riding fast down it. for one because it sucks going up and 2 I am in no hurry to get hit.

    As far as not knowing the rules, get over it! we all don't know everything and I like the whole be responsible for your own actions. I don't know all of the "Rules" and I race as a pro but if someone is coming down fast I sure as hell am not going to hold my line to prove a point. Maybe both parties can learn a little and take the Ipod out if someone might be coming the other way. I listen to one most of the time but it is so quiet I can hardly hear it.

    Can't we all just get along

  28. #28
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    Courtesy works no matter if you're going up or down

    I crashed on Sat going downhill because there was some girly man blocking the trail while putting the scrunchy back into his pony tail. But it's not how you think. I came to a complete stop. I had to, he was blocking the trail on a blind, steep rock garden.

    My problem was it was so steep and I had forgotten that I just replaced my worn out CB cleats with a fresh pair. Like I said, complete stop balancing clipped in thinking that Shiela was gonna clear the trail. Nope, he just keeps fooling with his hair I fall over and off into the rocks.

    He still says nothing so I ask while climbing back up to the trail...you speak english? He aswers "yes" so I say, then get the F*** outa the way! What are you thinking stopping here? No response.

    I, like Mudd and others yeild to everyone and I help every one in need and I talk with all users of our trails.

    The rest of you that don't fit that caracter type... get a flipping clue! Ah, I feel better now.
    Last edited by Duzitall; 03-17-2008 at 03:38 PM.
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  29. #29
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    The definition of a blind corner is that you can not see around it. If you can not see around it you do not know what is there. If you can not stop on a dime you are out of control around a blind corner and in fact you yourself stated that you had to crash to avoid someone (sounds like the definition of out of control to me). You were lucky that you could crash off to the side, some places that is not an option and you would have been forced to hit him. On a multiuse trail you have to assume that somone is always going to be right around that blind corner. It sucks but that is the only way to ride safe.

  30. #30
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    Climbers have the right of way. That being said, so what? The guy coming up isn't any different than a hiker or stray dog or a mt. Lion that's waiting on the blind corner. It's a risk you take that increases directly with your speed going downhill. No reason to get angry, going downhill fast is risky.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    Nobody said anything about stopping on a dime, just riding in control. (note: riding "in control" means you are taking into account current trail conditions, sight lines, etc.)



    That doesn't sound to me like he was riding in control. If he were able to stop or at least slow down enough to avoid a crash or collision it would be a different story. Riding in a manner that requires one to crash into bushes off the trail to avoid hitting responsible trail users IS the kind of thing that fosters ill will towards mountain bikers and DOES get trails closed to us.

    Now he knows, and knowing is half the battle. - G.I. Joe
    Oh puhleeeze. I bomb trails all the time and sometimes I crash, but not because I'm out of control, more to the point, SH!T HAPPENS! And I bet it's happened to you and everyone else who rides a bike.

    Now I agree that riders should definitely take into consideration trail conditions (blind corners, etc.) when choosing in what manner they're going to ride on certain trails. But I still stand by my contention that he was in "control" and got caught off guard, because he was unaware that people actually climb Rock-It. If anything he's guilty of being ignorant, but not a reckelss MTB'r. I'm sure now that he knows proper etiquette and that Rock It is 2 way, he'll know better and ride more within the limits dictated by the conditions of Rock-It.

  32. #32
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    Also, another side of this issue. Sometimes, even if a hiker or family wanted to yield, a trail can be too narrow or whatnot where someone has to give. Riding too fast into blind corners, whether it be uphill or downhill is just not a good idea period. I had a head on collision with someone in a blind corner. It was flat so neither was uphill or downhill. I now try to yell rider up whenever I see a blind corner where I can see someone going fast.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locomoto
    I've only really been mountain biking for about a year and a half...maybe a little more. That is probably why I didn't know dick head. Now I know and will be more careful in the future, but thanks for the retarded response
    no need for that....you are learning and tom (DFT) didn't see that....all is good
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92SE-R
    Also, another side of this issue. Sometimes, even if a hiker or family wanted to yield, a trail can be too narrow or whatnot where someone has to give. Riding too fast into blind corners, whether it be uphill or downhill is just not a good idea period. I had a head on collision with someone in a blind corner. It was flat so neither was uphill or downhill. I now try to yell rider up whenever I see a blind corner where I can see someone going fast.
    This is another case where a bell would be handy.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    This is another case where a bell would be handy.
    Absolutely, people hear the bell and they pull over in anticipation of the goat herd. Again, this doesn't mean I have the right of way, it just helps to avoid what could be a nasty encounter. You guys who don't use bells don't fully understand the benefit and just how much it reduces user conflicts. I have people say to me all the time, "Thanks for the bell!" It is in addition to good ole' trail etiquette / niceties.

    After You Mr. bicycle. No, after you I insist maam. What a nice boy.

    Just use it on those trails that have a high potential for user conflict. Yep, it's my drum and I'm going to beat it all alone if I have to.

    Here, let me make it ez for you:

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  36. #36
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    Just because cars have to stop for pedestrians playing the middle of a busy street and walking through an intersection against a red light looking straight down at their palm pilot with their headphones in doesn't mean it's a good idea (we all know how fvcking often this happens). Same principle. Inherent risk in going both directions on a trail like that. Deal.

    Oh, and to the poster that encountered the guy screwing with his ponytail - blast away. I don't trust guys with ponytails as a general rule.
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  37. #37
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    You are not alone!

    Quote Originally Posted by mouse jockey
    I have people say to me all the time, "Thanks for the bell!"
    Yep, it's my drum and I'm going to beat it all alone if I have to.
    I use mine on the multi use trails too. It gets the hikers out of the way without pissing them off, alerts the horses that you're not a bear or lion and almost everyone thanks you

    I bought my bear bell at REI years ago after I scared the crap outa an old lady by accident in the deep brush I felt so bad. I'm glad she didn't break a hip or something
    Quote Originally Posted by turnerbikes View Post
    Of course the easiest way to fix this is to go for a hike.
    DT

  38. #38
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    It really doesn’t have anything to do with right of way ‘rules’ or courtesy IMO. The problem I have this is the potential is there to hurt people other than yourself when you ride out of control (i.e. can not stop in time to avoid hitting someone). When mountain bikers take the attitude that hikers and horseback riders just have to ‘deal’ with them coming down the hill as an inherent risk of being on that trail I can understand why they want us banned. You need to keep your speed down to a level appropriate to your line of sight. I just see too many bike riders on downhill trails assuming that everyone should get out of their way since they are coming downhill and going too fast to stop (esp. group rides). Personally, I get out of the way when it looks like there is going to be a problem. I have no desire to cause an accident to prove a point and I don’t make an issue of it on the trail and ruin mine or someone else’s ride by tossing out a rude comment. But I like to hike with my two kids as well (ten and seven) and there are a couple of great trails I will not take them on due to bikes. I don’t trust their agility level to ‘deal’ with a downhill bike flying past them on a single track trail.

  39. #39
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    This topic has been "done to death" on these forums. The person going down hill has the responsibility to give the uphill rider the right of way. If you are flying downhill and come to a blind corner, slow down before the corner and be ready to stop and pull over [if needed] to an oncoming climber or other trail user. If we all followed a few simple rules [like staying off the trails while they are wet] we would all be happier and other trail users wouldn't be so against us using the same trails that they use. You are lucky you didn't happen upon a group of hikers or equestrians going at that rate of speed.
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 03-18-2008 at 01:26 PM.
    Front Range, Colorado.

  40. #40
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    Those bells. I put 1 pound worth of heavy duty tubes on my sunday to silent it! I think the constant bell sound would be annoying. I just give a "buewrp" or maybe "booh-oop" around every blind turn, just to let someone know I'll be there real soon! As a rider you can judge other user's body language and then I decide to blow by them or stop and let them pass! If it is hikers I always come to a skidding but rapid slowdown of speed to let them go by.sorry to grls I almost ran into on san juan 3/15! black diamond back!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duzitall
    I crashed on Sat going downhill because there was some girly man blocking the trail while putting the scrunchy back into his pony tail. But it's not how you think. I came to a complete stop. I had to, he was blocking the trail on a blind, steep rock garden.

    My problem was it was so steep and I had forgotten that I just replaced my worn out CB cleats with a fresh pair. Like I said, complete stop balancing clipped in thinking that Shiela was gonna clear the trail. Nope, he just keeps fooling with his hair I fall over and off into the rocks.

    He still says nothing so I ask while climbing back up to the trail...you speak english? He aswers "yes" so I say, then get the F*** outa the way! What are you thinking stopping here? No response.

    I, like Mudd and others yeild to everyone and I help every one in need and I talk with all users of our trails.

    The rest of you that don't fit that caracter type... get a flipping clue! Ah, I feel better now.
    I like your response to that girly man! I would say in that case he does need to get a clue. How about some courtesy girly man! It's like those in America that just lolly-gag along a cross walk as slow as possible because they know they have the right away. I'd like to see those same people walk in the streets of Paris and get hit by a car Just because you have the right away doesn't mean you have to take advantage of it and be an inconsiderate jerk

  42. #42
    Mark
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    ...This is another reason why I believe Aliso NEEDS DH specific, one way, trails.
    While RED5 and I have had our differences in other forums, I can clearly see a need to make some of the trails at AW one-way.

    Rock It is clearly a candidate for a one-way downhill and Cholla is clearly a candidate for a one-way uphill.

    Let's ban the hikers too

    I also believe that anyone who wears any kind of device that impairs their hearing is taking their life into their own hands. It is just plain stupid and soon the Mountain Lions will catch on.
    ===============

    Mark

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    Now I agree that riders should definitely take into consideration trail conditions (blind corners, etc.) when choosing in what manner they're going to ride on certain trails. But I still stand by my contention that he was in "control" and got caught off guard, because he was unaware that people actually climb Rock-It. If anything he's guilty of being ignorant, but not a reckelss MTB'r. I'm sure now that he knows proper etiquette and that Rock It is 2 way, he'll know better and ride more within the limits dictated by the conditions of Rock-It.
    Way to contradict yourself. You contend he was in control, then go on to say he knows better now and will ride within the limits of the trail. Face it, he was out of control. But like you said, now he knows better.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    Oh puhleeeze. I bomb trails all the time and sometimes I crash, but not because I'm out of control, more to the point, SH!T HAPPENS! And I bet it's happened to you and everyone else who rides a bike.
    Great. I "bomb" trails and sometimes I crash too, but it's because sometimes I F up (a.k.a. "lost control"). My crash, my fault. What does that have to do with with the subject of his thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    Now I agree that riders should definitely take into consideration trail conditions (blind corners, etc.) when choosing in what manner they're going to ride on certain trails. But I still stand by my contention that he was in "control" and got caught off guard, because he was unaware that people actually climb Rock-It. If anything he's guilty of being ignorant, but not a reckelss MTB'r. I'm sure now that he knows proper etiquette and that Rock It is 2 way, he'll know better and ride more within the limits dictated by the conditions of Rock-It.
    I'm sure the OP felt he was in control but he was not factoring in his responsibilities to other trail users. He didn't know and now he does. Like I said in my first post, "Now he knows, and knowing is half the battle."

    In this first clip, think of us, the "mountain bikes" as the yellow team with the orange team representing a local anti-mtb group.

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ABoJqFw6AcI&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ABoJqFw6AcI&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

    Really hits home, don't it?

    This one is cool just cause it has bikes.

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VSoMaAMA4vk&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VSoMaAMA4vk&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragged
    Way to contradict yourself. You contend he was in control, then go on to say he knows better now and will ride within the limits of the trail. Face it, he was out of control. But like you said, now he knows better.
    No contradiction, he was in control, he just didn't know he shouldn't be riding at that level of control on this trail. You make it sound like the guy had his friggin eyes closed, white knuckling the bars and just aimlessly blasting down the trail, which I don't believe was the case.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    Great. I "bomb" trails and sometimes I crash too, but it's because sometimes I F up (a.k.a. "lost control"). My crash, my fault. What does that have to do with with the subject of his thread?
    It has to do with the subject, because others contend that becasue the OP crashed trying to avoid a hiker, that he was out of control. I disagree. Everyone is missing the point, which isn;t the fact that he was going to fast (not out of control) on said trail or that he crashed. The point is he was riding on a trail that he didn't know was a 2 way trail. Had said trail, like the OP thought, been only a downhill ride, he would've been totally fine and not had an issue (ie: in control).



    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    I'm sure the OP felt he was in control but he was not factoring in his responsibilities to other trail users. He didn't know and now he does. Like I said in my first post, "Now he knows, and knowing is half the battle."
    As I stated above, he was factoring - he was factoring that this was a one way trail - one way DOWN! He was wrong, but still he was thinking.

  47. #47
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    I know this is getting beat to death, but I thought I would share my learning expeirence with a similar event. My friend and I were riding a mult-use trail that consisted of loose gravel & dirt on top of hardpack = sketchy. Coming down the hill at speed we felt in contol but had a very long stopping distance bcause of the grade and dirt conditions. Well, as we rounded the corner of a sweeper, this lady is hiking-jogging right up on us. Lucky for me I was closer to the inside of the trail and she was on the outside. My friend behind me was on the outside and yelled "stay to your right" at her. As I passed her I could tell she was confused about what to do. All my friend could do is try not to lock up the brakes while she was tring to figure out which lane to move into. She did that side-to-side thing a couple times before they made contact and then both of them went down. After he got up out of the bushes, he then helped her up and apologized several times. The worst part was that she was pregnant! I felt so bad about the event, It changed my riding style ever since.

    Simple: if you ride multi-use, you have to be in control. period. I'm sure this lady HATES mountain bikes after what happened. I ride with this event in the back of my head. and it sucks cause I like to ride fast too. So now I only turn on the downhill speed when I can see well over the horizon that it's safe to do so.

    .

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED5
    No contradiction, he was in control, he just didn't know he shouldn't be riding at that level of control on this trail. You make it sound like the guy had his friggin eyes closed, white knuckling the bars and just aimlessly blasting down the trail, which I don't believe was the case.
    You should be a politician, you got the language down. I tell you that you contradict yourself in your post and use your words to show you the contradiction. My only comment on his riding was " face it, he was out of control." You read that as me saying.....the guy had his friggin eyes closed, white knuckling the bars and just aimlessly blasting down the trail Locomoto's own words...........I was going down Rock-it today quite fast as usual (as many people do) and I came around a blind corner.........and because of my speed neither of us had much time to react and the only thing I could do to avoid running his a$$ over was to grab way to much front brake (and rear brake) and go crashing off the side of the trail are closer to what you think I said than what I actually said.

    You seem to be very sensitive to this issue. What gives? Been taking a lot of heat lately for bombing down trails?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoovermd
    While RED5 and I have had our differences in other forums, I can clearly see a need to make some of the trails at AW one-way.

    Rock It is clearly a candidate for a one-way downhill and Cholla is clearly a candidate for a one-way uphill.

    Let's ban the hikers too

    I also believe that anyone who wears any kind of device that impairs their hearing is taking their life into their own hands. It is just plain stupid and soon the Mountain Lions will catch on.
    get over it, tons of people climb it and like climbing it. there are not that many routes up, all are needed.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    get over it, tons of people climb it and like climbing it. there are not that many routes up, all are needed.
    Not many routes up??? How about Cholla, Meadows, Lynx & Mathis?? Out of 5 trails, Rock-It included, you don't think 4 would be sufficient?? Someones a little greedy.

    I'm curious how many people actually climb Rock-It without using the Pline that's on the right of the trail when descending??

    BTW, I thought SHARE or maybe it was the parks dept. were going to put up a fence to keep the Pliners off that part, you know to stop trail erosion/widening? I haven;t been down Rock It for a month or so, so maybe it's been done, but if not it should be.

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