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Thread: Rain and PQ

  1. #1
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    Rain and PQ

    From the Multi Use Trails Coalition:

    "It's been so long since any sustained rains that we've all gotten used
    to nearly unlimited riding, hiking and running weather. Next week,
    we're forecast to have several days of rain and, if that happens, this
    certainly means mud and trail closures in local parks and preserves.

    It's common for many visitors to the parks not to remember or know why
    San Diego trails are closed when wet, and how important it is that we
    not rut or post-hole them with our shoes, bikes and horses just because
    it's sunny one day and we'd like to go out, even though the trails are
    still wet. Although some parks, such as the south side of Lake Hodges,
    drain and dry the trails quickly, others stay wet. Of course, Los
    Penasquitos is the wettest of them all, since the main part of the
    canyon is only feet above the regular water table and the soils
    throughout the preserve are clayey and stay wet.

    Do what you can to spread the word among riders that don't read here
    about how important it is to stay out of PQ when it's wet. The Ranger
    will post notices about trail closures, but your larger network of
    friends won't get those -- "stewardship of the land" starts with us and
    our communications to the people we know that visit our parks and
    preserves."

    This goes for many other rides besides PQ. Please give the trails 48 hours rest. Sad to see how much damage people did up in Sycamore by riding on Sunday and that's just the first little storm. We'll be looking at those off trail ruts for months.

    The fact is that the trail is its most fragile when it's wet. Please be kind to the tread and help keep single track single. Don't ride on wet trails.
    SDMBA Liaison, Sycamore Canyon/Goodan Ranch Open Space Preserves

  2. #2
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    That will be a good time for a road ride!

  3. #3
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    The main fire road up the west side of Black Mtn. is rideable within a day of rain. Avoid the east side (Miner's Ridge trail) and all Santa Luz area trails for at least 5 days after a good rain. Sticky mud that will leave ruts for a year, literally.
    If not biking, then what?

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    I am sure the ones that ride after it rains are not on this forum, so I am sure this post is falling on deaf ears.

    They should just close all city and county trails for a least two days after rain, like they do in Orange County, because most do not have enough common sense to stay a way.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by S:Drive
    I am sure the ones that ride after it rains are not on this forum, so I am sure this post is falling on deaf ears.

    They should just close all city and county trails for a least two days after rain, like they do in Orange County, because most do not have enough common sense to stay a way.
    I know for a fact that you are mistaken. I hope that by keeping the message out there it will start to sink in (pun intended).
    SDMBA Liaison, Sycamore Canyon/Goodan Ranch Open Space Preserves

  6. #6
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    Unfortunately there are a few riders who either do not think the rules are applicable to them or their little adventure onto wet trails are not a big deal.

    Now is the time for cross training. I love running in the rain. You can road ride, weight train, and most importantly, get that maintenance done on the bike you have been putting off.

    I am sending my forks to Push tomorrow. Most trials will be unusable for the next couple of days so now is the ideal time for a tear down, complete cleaning, and rebuild.

    There is too much at stake in PQ to muck it up. You will not die by waiting a few days. I promise.
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

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    Thanks for posting that info. It is very important and speaks to the sustainability of our trail systems.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardner
    I know for a fact that you are mistaken. I hope that by keeping the message out there it will start to sink in (pun intended).
    I agree, lots of noobs come to this site looking for info and then find the So Cal forum. I think we can pretty much take PQ off the list for the next few weeks at least. The amount of rain we have had just today will keep it muddy for at least a week. If the rain continues through Wednesday as predicted you can forget riding PQ for the rest of December. Sycamore canyon should also be off limits for a while. Especially in the south part.
    http://www.nbbikes.com/
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    CEB
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    A little word of mouth...

    Quote Originally Posted by S:Drive
    I am sure the ones that ride after it rains are not on this forum, so I am sure this post is falling on deaf ears.

    They should just close all city and county trails for a least two days after rain, like they do in Orange County, because most do not have enough common sense to stay a way.

    Prob true. How about everyone here on this site send an email to all your riding buddies reminding them you will not be riding and why and perhaps they ought not ride either. I have LOTS of riding buddies that DON'T frequent this site. I'm sending out a quick positive note now!

    If you use FB or myspace, post that on your wall!

    Just an idea.

  10. #10
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    Check out the spike in the creek level in PQ. Water level is typically 2 feet, and has surged today up to 7ft.

    http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ca/nwis/uv...agency_cd=USGS

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    i ride the trails when it rains some times.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhNooo
    Check out the spike in the creek level in PQ. Water level is typically 2 feet, and has surged today up to 7ft.

    http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ca/nwis/uv...agency_cd=USGS
    Thanks for the link to the creek flow.

    Even after the last slight rain, there was debris over the "rocks" on the west side, the area that washed out last year where the bridge popped up (and is now gone). I damn near wondered if the new developments at the top of the hill are all flowing into the preserve.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhNooo
    Check out the spike in the creek level in PQ. Water level is typically 2 feet, and has surged today up to 7ft.

    http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ca/nwis/uv...agency_cd=USGS
    Thanks for the link to the creek flow.

    Even after the last slight rain, there was debris over the "rocks" on the west side, the area that washed out last year where the bridge popped up (and is now gone). I damn near wondered if the new developments at the top of the hill are all flowing into the preserve.

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    It's time to clean my bike up and have it tuned while I go to the mountains for some snowboarding! Hopefully it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg to snowboard this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    Even after the last slight rain, there was debris over the "rocks" on the west side, the area that washed out last year where the bridge popped up (and is now gone). I damn near wondered if the new developments at the top of the hill are all flowing into the preserve.
    Hey, if you can report and/or photo that, please send it to Ranger Washington and/or me. I can still post photos to the CAC's file folders and we can follow up on such stuff unless the Chair squelches it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    Thanks for the link to the creek flow.

    Even after the last slight rain, there was debris over the "rocks" on the west side, the area that washed out last year where the bridge popped up (and is now gone). I damn near wondered if the new developments at the top of the hill are all flowing into the preserve.
    I didn't photo or report it , just shook my head and rode on. Next time I will get you a picture.

    You know where I am talking about right? After a rain last year there was about a 10x4 gully that popped up on the west side, someone put a pretty well built bridge in there. A few months ago, there was work done with rock and dirt to make the trail span the wash and the bridge was removed.

  17. #17
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    From Ranger Gina:

    All the trails in Los Penasquitos Canyon, Carmel Mountain, and Del Mar Mesa Preserves are closed until further notice. We are expecting another storm surge Thursday/Friday this week so we will likely be closed for a while. We really appreciate your sharing this information with everyone you know that uses our trails and for your cooperating with the closures.

    As soon as we can open any trail I will let you know, until then, stay dry, be safe and enjoy the SoCal winter

  18. #18
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    Being originally from BC, I'm used to riding in the rain and actually preferred it. If you didn't ride in the rain, you were only getting to ride a few days per year. I loved getting all muddy.

    It's definitely tempting to hit the trails after a storm like this.....but here in socal it's obviously a different soil / trail condition and riding after a storm causes much damage.

    Please stay off until it's dry..........

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badkharma
    Being originally from BC, I'm used to riding in the rain and actually preferred it. If you didn't ride in the rain, you were only getting to ride a few days per year. I loved getting all muddy.

    It's definitely tempting to hit the trails after a storm like this.....but here in socal it's obviously a different soil / trail condition and riding after a storm causes much damage.
    As you said, the difference is all in the soil. In the northwest (I'm from Seattle), the soil actually drains and it's not clay. Here' it's clay. It holds the water and when you ride through it, it retains the shape of your tires. when the moisture dries, you're left with a cement impression of your tires (they build houses out of clay after all)

    Most of the time, riding in the mud here isn't any fun anyway. the mud doesn't shed out of the tires and instead builds up to the point where you can't ride anyway. then when you get off your bike your cleats fill up and you can't clip in.

    We have 335 riding days a year here in So-Cal, when it does rain just take the time to do something else for those few days that the trails are closed!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    You know where I am talking about right? After a rain last year there was about a 10x4 gully that popped up on the west side, someone put a pretty well built bridge in there. A few months ago, there was work done with rock and dirt to make the trail span the wash and the bridge was removed.
    As soon as you posted that, I did. I called that into Ranger Washington and she checked it out this morning. She reports that you're right: there's uncontrolled drainage down from the development above, but that she's happy with the way the desilting area they constructed has performed. They're apparently dealing (?) with the drainage from above, but okay with the trail condition.

    That said, it's ALWAYS great to speak up when you see stuff like that. In '05, there was a huge rut cut into the singletrack above Little Waimea, but wasn't reported until it was "too big to fix", and similar damage nuked the sliver of what's left of Eucalyptus Trail, too. Thanks for pointing it out!

    FYI for those that care about this issue, the Ranger walked to inspect the trail, no trucks in the preserve today.

  21. #21
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    Follow Up: Rgr. Washington wants to do some work. Anyone out there not gainfully employed or working from home as a graphics designer with a collection of classic BMW's and carbon fiber toys? Well... see below:

    "You may all be familiar with Mary Anna’s trench, the large washout on the north side of LPCP between wagon wheel crossing and sycamore crossing. We had built a gabion structure for our trail bed and it worked perfectly. The silt from the storm water built up behind the structure, filling in the trench; exactly what we designed it to do. There are a few week points that I would like to get shored up before the next storm surge on Thursday.

    Is anyone available tomorrow morning between 9:00 and 11:00 to help us move a few rock into place? We will have to hike in and out from the top, about a 2 mile round trip. We will use rock that is on site. Please reply ASAP if you think you can make it. Ideally you could meet us at our office at 8:45 a.m. or if that doesn’t work we can meet at the Von’s shopping center at the corner of E. Ocean Air and Carmel Mountain Road.

    Gina Washington
    Senior Park Ranger
    City of San Diego, Open Space Division
    858.538.8066 (PH)
    "
    Last edited by EBasil; 12-08-2009 at 03:46 PM.

  22. #22
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    I wish I could go, Dang work.
    telling me to stay out of a former bombing range next to a dump while you build huge houses next to it? Screw you.-sandmangts

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    As soon as you posted that, I did. I called that into Ranger Washington and she checked it out this morning. She reports that you're right: there's uncontrolled drainage down from the development above, but that she's happy with the way the desilting area they constructed has performed. They're apparently dealing (?) with the drainage from above, but okay with the trail condition.

    That said, it's ALWAYS great to speak up when you see stuff like that. In '05, there was a huge rut cut into the singletrack above Little Waimea, but wasn't reported until it was "too big to fix", and similar damage nuked the sliver of what's left of Eucalyptus Trail, too. Thanks for pointing it out!

    FYI for those that care about this issue, the Ranger walked to inspect the trail, no trucks in the preserve today.
    First I thought... he must be joking! Then I remember we were talking about LPQ.

    Seeing as how they obviously don't make it to that side of the park often.... nevermind... it would make a great gap jump though!

  24. #24
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    maybe just give your local trails a little love....you know fix blown out corners, clean up ruts.....put some rocks out to narrow trail down
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  25. #25
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    Message from Ranger Gina at Peñasquitos Canyon

    Hello everyone,
    I wanted to let you know that we are still here, but just barely. The creek really rose to the point we had to evacuate our office. The streets surrounding us, Black Mountain, Mercy and Carmel Country Roads, were all flooded/closed at different points throughout the day. The storm drains just couldn’t handle the water coming off the streets.

    The Hay Barn at the Mohnike Adobe sustained more damage from the high winds, that will take some serious work to stabilize. I tried at one point to get a high view of the canyon but almost got blown away by the wind and heavy rain, in about 30 seconds I was completely soaked (my rubber boots filled with water, not a pleasant way to spend the day). Canyonside Recreation Drive became an extension of the creek and the parking lot in front of the recreation center had water flowing through it (as evidenced by the reeds wrapped around the car tires; the storm drainage between the rec. center and Black Mountain Road often overflows in heavy rain).

    It will be sometime before we are able to even get into the canyon to do a thorough inspection of the damage. I know there will be a lot, so we need to brace ourselves for a long closed stretch. It’s at this time that it is most important to stay out of the canyon. When there is major damage and people go in, they are forced to go around the damaged areas creating more impact to the adjacent habitat, which takes us longer to repair and that means the trails stay closed longer than they have to. Additionally, there were very strong winds during the storm and with as much ground saturation as we have, there are surely many trees down and/or teetering on the edge all over the canyon. Please protect yourself by staying off the trails. We usually start repairing the access roads first, to facilitate the maintenance vehicles, then we get to the single track. So, the single tracks are going to be closed even longer than everything else for several reasons: 1) they sustain more damage b/c they are so close to the creek 2) they don’t dry out as fast b/c they are in the shade of the trees and 3) there are many more trees that can fall and close off section and/or create dangerous conditions.

    We needed this rain, but not so much at one time. Please bear with us as our small crew takes makes the needed repairs on the trails. If you are willing and able to help, our crew works Monday, Wednesday and Friday 8:30 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. We meet at the Ranger office next to the Canyonside Stables (equestrian center) on the east side of Black Mountain Road.

    I hope you all made it through the storms safely. Hopefully drying out,

    Gina Washington
    Senior Park Ranger
    City of San Diego, Open Space Division
    858.538.8066 (PH)
    858.536.8334 (FAX)

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