Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 70
  1. #1
    Trying a little
    Reputation: dusthuffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    1,782

    PV trails need help

    PV multiuse trails are under threat with a surprise possibly (probably?) anti-biking usage meeting:

    Here's what I heard:

    This meeting is scheduled to be held on Saturday November 10th at 9:30am at the Pointe Vicente Interpretive Center (31501 Palos Verdes Drive West, Rancho Palos Verdes, CA 90275-5369 310-377-5370) and could be a few hours long . . . This meeting was announced last night, but there is no announcement on their website yet.

    For information on the PUMP Committee and this situation, please go to the City of Rancho Palos Verdes website
    http://palosverdes.com/rpv/planning/...mmary-2007.cfm

    For a Map of what trails uses are being proposed by the PUMP Committee, please look at this attachment:
    http://palosverdes.com/rpv/planning/...ANYONS-ER2.pdf

    For CORBA's suggestion on a trail plan, please look at this attachment:
    http://palosverdes.com/rpv/planning/...CORBA%20PV.pdf
    Last edited by dusthuffer; 10-31-2007 at 06:47 PM.

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: trail bait's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    558
    That pump map makes sense if you want to run bikers off, one thing you can't tell by looking at the map is there is no parking allowed at the bottom. So what a bicyclelist needs to do is get dropped off, then the best they could do is ride up a few fire roads halfway up the hill. Maybe they would throw in the Upper/ Lower Slalom, Grand Canyon and Bad Lands being they don't have a use for them.

  3. #3
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138
    Several of us attended last Tuesday's PUMP meeting and was successful in that the plan they had passed previousy wanting to shut us out from the entrance at the end of Crenshaw (Burma Road Trail) including several trails was put to a new vote and shot down. . But now they need to come up with a new plan. There are a few committee members that just have it in for bikers and come up with total BS in their argument it was just unreal. Next meeting is next Wednesday at 7pm:
    PUMP Committee Meeting
    City of Rancho Palos Verdes - (310) 544-5227
    November 7, 2007 at 7:00 PM
    City Hall Community Room - 30940 Hawthorne Blvd., Rancho Palos Verdes

    * Wednesday November 7 will likely decide our fate at Portuguese Bend. (PV,Del Cerro,the"Cizzle")
    * Saturday November 17 will be a public review of the plan.
    * January (date to be announced) city council will take public comments and make a final decision.

    Your presence and voice there are very important since the bike haters are also going to be having people there in force. They will be going through each trail deciding it's proposed use. You can read about this in full on our thread on STR. If you can attend please come. Troy from CORBA is on the PUMP committee and has represented the mountain bike community well and strong.

    Please read this link:
    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...e-falling.html

    Thanks,
    -Chris "Sharky"
    Last edited by *Sharky*; 11-02-2007 at 08:46 PM.
    INCYCLE

  4. #4
    PVt
    PVt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PVt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    36

    November 10th meeting

    The November 10th meeting is for the Visioning Plan. This is the third in a series. It will not be about trail uses but more about a general plan for trail heads, facilities, and projects by the Annenberg Foundation sponsor.

    Some may want to attend to learn more about the overall plan in Rancho Palos Verdes but there will no discussion about trail uses.
    Troy
    Last edited by PVt; 11-02-2007 at 11:57 AM.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gmats's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,117
    Oh my!! This is so sad to read. I used to ride there for many years when I lived in Redondo Beach. I cut my teeth learning to mountain bike there in the late 80's and early 90s. I've been living back here in Hawaii and regularly return to SC to ride with friends. It saddens me to think that such a great place will not be accessible by mountain bikers. I applaud all the hard work a few people are doing to keep the trails open for all to enjoy. I wish I could be there to support you. If there is some way I can help from way out here, let me know.

    Living out here Hawaii, I realize how hard it is to find useful trails. Most of the Big Island is private property and therefore, hard to gain trail access. In fact, a developer just started bulldozing one of the few trails we had here in the Kamuela (Parker Ranch) area.

    Good luck, I'm crossing my fingers.

    Aloha,
    g

  6. #6
    Glad to Be Alive
    Reputation: SHIVER ME TIMBERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    42,162
    bump
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  7. #7
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138

    Del Cerro-PV-the "Cizzle"

    For those who ride, have ridden or plan on enjoying the trails at Del Cerro this Wednesday's PUMP (Public Use Master Plan) committee meeting is vital to attend to support and lend your voice if needed. The proposed trail usage is the main issue on the table and the other "users" will be there in force. We're also hoping to have a section set aside for "technical" riders since the ladders/jumps/trails etc. popping up have been an issue of complaint. Most complaints from certain committee members about bikers have been completely unfounded but no doubt a push will be made at this meeting to shut us out.

    PUMP Committee Meeting
    City of Rancho Palos Verdes - (310) 544-5227
    This Wednesday, November 7 at 7:00PM
    City Hall Community Room - 30940 Hawthorne Blvd., Rancho Palos Verdes

    For more info on this meeting please read our thread on STR:
    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...tml#post131452

    As well as:
    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...e-falling.html

    Plan to arrive early to get a seat (stood through last meeting) and would give you a chance to meet with fellow bikers prior to the start. Thanks for any help!!
    See you there,
    Chris "Sharky"
    Last edited by *Sharky*; 11-06-2007 at 06:27 PM.
    INCYCLE

  8. #8
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138

    Del Cerro

    Just one last reminder about tomorrow (Wednesday) night's meeting. This one could help decide our possible use or non-use in the future so we need a solid representation from the bikers there. We know there will be a good showing from those not wanting us sharing certain trails.
    Let's hope for a fair and positive outcome!
    Thanks again.

    Info:
    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...formation.html
    Last edited by *Sharky*; 11-06-2007 at 10:12 PM.
    INCYCLE

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EsHan13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    85

    News?

    So...what happened at the last (November 7th) meeting? I was there from about 7pm to 8:30pm and had to bail. I wish I could have given more support. It seemed like there were a lot of Mtb-ers there though.

    Special thanks to the the guy/mechanic at Smith's Cycle (Lomita) for filling me in on the meeting.

  10. #10
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138
    One word...FRUSTRATION !! Basically nothing was achieved last night. They took the Oct. 17th map http://palosverdes.com/rpv/planning/...ANYONS-ER2.pdf and proposed a change to open up the Burma Road Trail to Multipurpose (great for us) and also the intersection of Ishibashi/Grapevine to Burma as a pedestrian/equestrian trail but put to a vote did not pass. Mostly because the map as a whole would not be what they would want to present to the city council. So it was decided that at the next meeting which will be next Wednesday Nov. 14th at 7pm they would go trail by trail in the upper section of the Canyons map and decide their each proposed use. Our favorite bike hater on the committee decided last night to add bunny killers to her list of biased and unfounded complaints against mountain bikers. Finding a dead bunny on the side of a trail accused us of it's demise and a threat to ALL bunnys. OMG next we'll be accused of causing global warming!! Most likely was the victim of drought and lack of food or death by coyote etc? I mean really maybe a fluke hit but wildlife death by mountainbike pretty rare.
    Troy Braswell on this PUMP committee has been dealing with this type of mentality from her and a few others for 4 years now on our behalf my hat is off to him. He really needs our help and support. It's vital that when the City Council receives PUMP's plan and holds their meeting to hear public comments on what is proposed we need to be there in force to voice our views before they make their final decision if we want to keep these trails we enjoy open to us.
    To read more on our views of last night's meeting please read:
    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...tml#post133590

    Thanks for coming out we need to stick with this to assure a fair outcome.
    See ya on the trails,
    Chris "Sharky"
    Last edited by *Sharky*; 11-08-2007 at 07:27 PM.
    INCYCLE

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: trail bait's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    558
    Quote Originally Posted by bkrshark
    One word...FRUSTRATION Our favorite bike hater on the committee decided last night to add bunny killers to her list of biased and unfounded complaints against mountain bikers. Finding a dead bunny on the side of a trail accused us of it's demise and a threat to ALL bunnys. OMG
    Wow !!! Did she get a picture of Elmer Fudd on a mountain bike? He's the only professed bunny killer I know of.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Bobby Peru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    486
    Quote Originally Posted by trail bait
    Wow !!! Did she get a picture of Elmer Fudd on a mountain bike? He's the only professed bunny killer I know of.

    SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Be very, very quiet! I'm hunting WABBITS!

    Last edited by Bobby Peru; 11-08-2007 at 09:28 PM.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EsHan13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    85

    Thanks...

    Thanks for keeping us informed. This trail is vital to us in SoCal. Close Del Cerro and the "nearest" trail we'll have is in the Santa Monica Mountains. With today's gas prices and traffic...ugh....that's just really impractical.

    Also thanks to those who stayed for the long haul and endured through the whole agonizing
    meeting.

    Excuse my ignorance on the matter, but how did this proposal to prohibit biking at Del Cerro even come up to begin with? Were there numerous complaints? Was it instigated by one particular council member (and I can guess who that person may be even from my short stay at the meeting)? Are there elections coming up so we can kick her out any time soon? Had there ever been a threat to close Del Cerro to bikers in the past and how was it thwarted then?

    Sorry for all the questions. I'm sure I can find the answers myself with a thorough search. I just have a bad feeling about the outcome. Nonetheless, I'll be there again next Wednesday wearing something mtber related to show my allegiance.
    Thanks again for keeping us informed!!

  14. #14
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138
    I'll let Troy give you a more detailed response but degradation and visible damage of a few trails have been the basis of some discussion on closure to regenerate. The Slalom area for example. Since studies have not shown that mountainbiking does any more damage than hikers or horses in my opinion if they close a particular trail for this specific reason it should be to ALL users and not single out the bikers.
    Some of the degradation is being done to NON-native plants which should be pulled anyways so there are so many points of discussion to each argument.
    Last edited by *Sharky*; 11-09-2007 at 11:14 AM.
    INCYCLE

  15. #15
    PVt
    PVt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PVt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    36

    Answers

    The proposal to close most trails to bikes came from a newly formed coalition called SUNíP. Most of these people have been working to restrict bikes for years. There are no council members in SUNíP.

    The Del Cerro area was private property until last year so the city had no authority to regulate uses. Essentially, everyone was poaching private land.

    However, there is a history of attempts to restrict cycling in RPV. The Forrestal Preserve was the first major open space purchase by the city. Here is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to the local news paper that summarizes the issues and how they relate to Del Cerro, now called Canyons Reserve.

    "Bike opponents at the Forrestal Preserve frantically claimed that cyclists were destroying sensitive habitat, terrorizing other users, and building unauthorized trails and jumps. Allowing bikes on trails would mean certain ecological disaster. The Forrestal Steering Committee, recognizing that most of these inflated issues could be mitigated, voted to allow bikes on all but a couple of trails.

    In 2004 the city council temporarily closed upper trails to bikes because of trail deficiencies, but stipulated that when repairs were completed they would reconsider. Cyclists volunteered in large numbers to help complete repairs in 2006.

    Subsequently, the Forrestal Advisory Board recommended that bikes be allowed back. The city council kept its promise and allowed bikes access on a trial basis, to be monitored by the conservancy. The monitoring report conclusion was that bikes had no more impact than other users and there was not a single user complaint. The PUMP committee then voted to leave the Forrestal plan intact, bikes and all.

    So what happened to the doomsday claims? The answer is simple; a good management plan was implemented and bike related problems were reduced to the level of other trail users. Isnít it amazing what some signs, user education, and overwhelming cooperation of responsible cyclists will do?

    Now we hear the same claims from the same people, only with extreme urgency this time. Instead of allowing the conservancy to do its job of managing the reserve, they want to undermine the good efforts of cyclists who have promised to help close inappropriate trails, repair the damage, and aggressively insist on good behavior through education and peer pressure. Cyclists have already helped remove all wooden structures. That took about three hours.

    Everyone agrees that unmanaged use has allowed the unsightly proliferation of trails. However, you must remember several things. It took years without management, and a drought to reach its current status, not weeks or months. A ban would take the same amount of time to implement as a fair management plan, so the urgency factor is overstated. Weíre talking about roughly 1% of the reserve area, not total destruction. When the management plan is implemented this activity, like at Forrestal, will quickly be reduced to the level of other user groups.

    The cycling community knows what is at stake and is poised to show that detractors are wrong again. All we are saying is give us a chance again."


    Please help! Let me know if you have question.
    Troy

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EsHan13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    85

    Thank you...

    Thank you so much for the insight! It's great to know we have such informed people on our side. If we can get these facts across and a bit of self-policing (to prevent new wooden structures, people straying from the trails, continued trail maintenance, etc.) we should be ok.

    I think it's beneficial to focus on the benefits of having mountain bikers. I run into many hikers at night who lose their dogs (or are even lost themselves) and I always see many mountain bikers using their high powered lights and better/quicker maneuverability to help find the dogs or give others aid.
    I'm sure this has been focused on before by other insightful riders at the meeting and it should be hammered into the committee that we're not just "using" the trail, but also doing what we can to preserve it and helping others enjoy it as well.

    Like many others, you have my support and I'll be sure to show up at those critical meetings. Please keep us posted as to those crucial meetings and we'll be there! Thanks again and keep up the fight!! Your effort and work is sincerely appreciated!

  17. #17
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138

    Good job!

    Just a reminder about the meeting tomorrow (Wed.) night if anyone can make it. They're supposed to go through the upper trails of Del Cerro (Canyons Reserve) to decide the proposed use of each so your support and voice is needed at this one. Can't wait to see what our favorite "all bikers are evil" member comes up with this week. Rode there yesterday was hoping to run into her !!

    PUMP Committee Meeting (Public Use Master Plan)
    City of Rancho Palos Verdes
    Wednesday, Nov. 14th at 7:00 pm
    City Hall Community Room
    30940 Hawthorne Blvd., Rancho Palos Verdes

    See ya there...
    Last edited by *Sharky*; 11-13-2007 at 08:49 PM.
    INCYCLE

  18. #18
    PVt
    PVt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PVt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    36

    Bikes banned

    The ax has fallen......
    The Palos Verdes Peninsula Land Conservancy board voted unanimously last night to request that the City ban bicycles from all trails in the Canyons area except Burma Road until the PUMP is completed.


    It's more important than ever to be at the meeting tomorrow night!

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: trail bait's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    558
    Ain't that a kick in the marbles.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ssisyphus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    32
    The ax has been swung.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ssisyphus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    32
    As I understand this situation the PVPLC is a public group requesting the city to ban the activities of another public group (us) on city property.

    What advantage do they hold with the city as compared to CORBA?



    What perceived purpose will this "temporary" ban achieve other than motivating us to oppose the bike haters and educate trail wreckers with a new resolve?

    I'll be e-mailing and calling a few people regarding this recent issue and try to make the meeting.


    Thanks for your work Troy!
    Last edited by ssisyphus; 11-13-2007 at 11:08 PM.

  22. #22
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138
    Troy is the man!! This is only my 3rd straight meeting he's been battling this for us for 4 years. Tonight is going to be an important meeting if anyone can attend. Better late than never. Hoping we can get a clear vision across to them as to what would be a FAIR outcome. Thanks for everything Troy it's much apreciated.

    PUMP Committee Meeting:
    TONIGHT at 7:00 pm
    City Hall Community Room
    30940 Hawthorne Blvd., Rancho Palos Verdes

    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...tml#post137269
    Last edited by *Sharky*; 11-14-2007 at 09:59 AM.
    INCYCLE

  23. #23
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138

    UPDATE-next PUMP meeting this Wednesday

    Just an update for anyone following/supporting our battle to keep Del Cerro open to us. The city council did actually vote last Tuesday to allow the Land Conservancy Board to close certain trails to ALL users keep in mind it is that Board's primary job to preserve the habitat. Uncertain which trails they will be and should hopefully be temporary till the final approval of the long term PUMP plan which is what these meetings are accomplishing to submit to the city. Please respect the closures since we'll be closely judged by our behavior on these possibly affecting the final PUMP aproval. At the last PUMP meeting 2 weeks back they got through about half the trails deciding their proposed use biker input was vital to some of these decisions so thanks to those that spoke. AND of course what's a meeting without "bikers are bunny killers" member trying to outlaw us she decided using original deeds for the land purchase that bikers should be included as "off road vehicles" since they were forbidden.Uh huh, right!! Moving on. On a positive note a few seemed open to the idea of a seperate "freeride" area for us.
    This Wednesdays meeting we will be fighting hard to keep Grand Canyon/Slow or Die but concider Badlands off the map to any users because of it's unique features lost issue. Upper Slalom (aka Upper Grapevine) was given to us but no access from above so would be an out and back from below?? So if I walk my bike on a ped/equestrian trail that would make me a hiker, right? Here's a map showing what's been decided so far as of the last meeting GREEN=we can use (bikers), ORANGE still to be decided, DOTTED ones are closed or not on the map.

    Last edited by *Sharky*; 11-27-2007 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Enlarged map
    INCYCLE

  24. #24
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138
    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...falling-9.html
    Here's a link to a thread that stays pretty current with info and accounts of the meetings.
    If you can make the next meeting will be this Wednesday the 28th.
    PUMP committee meeting:
    This Wednesday, November 28th at 7:00PM
    RPV City Hall Community Room
    30940 Hawthorne Blvd.
    Rancho Palos Verdes

    THANKS...
    Sharky
    INCYCLE

  25. #25
    Dirt Hippie
    Reputation: *Sharky*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    138
    Oops by request I enlarged the map above...now you can read the trails. Hope some of you can make it to the meeting. Hit me up for some beef jerkey if it goes long ....I come prepared.
    Riding Del Cerro this afternoon if you're out there say "HI" we'll both be on IronHorses.
    INCYCLE

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •