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  1. #1
    ali'i hua
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    puma/mountain lion/big kitty sighting

    last saturday afternoon at about 330 at whiting ranch, orange county- was cruising thru Whiting after hitting Louge back to the car and saw one- german shepard size, sandy in color, high-tailing it away from me down the trail. so I stopped instead of giving chase. figured that might not be the best idea...

    makes a person feel a little lower on the food chain.

    so, there ya go.

  2. #2
    Just another Homer
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    You should

    let the park rangers know. This is the third time I've heard of a cougar sighting at Whiting this past couple of months.
    I may not be as good as I once was.
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  3. #3
    Glad to Be Alive
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    man how many cats live near there
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  4. #4
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    Hiked it about the Tues prior to Thanksgiving

    trip to Cal from Idaho and didn't have my bike
    me and my girlfreind hiked it. didn't see anything
    but more deer than I've ever seen at the bottom of cactus going back towards Portola
    probably a good thing.

    what is the deal with mtn lion there, so far down the mountain fromt he Santa Anas?
    Easy "prey"? (Scary)

  5. #5
    My dogs are killin me
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    If there's a lot of deer there, then there's your answer most likely.

    Hope people are smart out there after the last incident. There can't be too many of those cats left. It would be a shame to keep having to kill them off!

  6. #6
    mechmann_mtb
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    we saw a bunch of deer in that area as well. just up the road from cooks corner.

    i am sure there are big cats there. make sure if you ride in that area you take the appropriate precautions. i ride with a good sized knife handy and never ride alone. if you have to stop to fix a flat make sure there is someone else with you before you go stooping down and working on your bike.

    safety in numbers is key.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Why let the park rangers know? Why not just leave the cat be? We are intuders in their domain. I'm sure there are quite a few Pumas in Orange County, as well there should be. Do you think for one minute that a park ranger doesn't know that? If you're afraid of a little kitty, maybe you should take up road biking.
    The rangers will let the cat be. They do ask that you report mt lion sightings to them. I assume so they can post signs at the park entrances indicating a sighting so that people can make a decision on whether they want to go into the park. For example a family with young children might choose to avoid the park or to keep their children in close proximity. The County will also close the park if there is a lion that is acting abnormally.

  8. #8
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    Ranger

    In the first place, you don't have to tell the ranger at this point because he is on this forum regularly.
    Secondly - I'm with you Pain, if I was responsible for maintaining a safe environment for the public in a wilderness type park, I would want to know of every lion sighting just so I knew how prevelant they were. If TreadHead doesn't want to be responsible enough to help with that effort, maybe he should take up bowling.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Let's see, if you had a bunch of large cats traipsing through your house on bicycles, foot and horseback and they were part of your food chain and you were hungry, what would you do?

    Sanitizing the outdoors for your protection is a ridiculous notion. If there is a hungry cat out there and nobody has seen them "acting abnormally", they'll still see a human as prey if they want to. The County is full of idiots if the park is closed just because a natural predator who has lived there for years was seen.

    A road bike for you too.
    I guess your reading comprehension is poor, because I said nothing about sanitizing. Sounds like you are just looking to pick a fight over this issue.

  10. #10
    See you at the top.
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    It is mtn biking

    I have had two encounters with the big cats and I think they are the most beautiful things I have ever seen. But yes I was scared. We are the intruders and should keep that in mind. I have not seen any sharks while I am surfing but hey I am in their kitchen.

    Heads up all but it is the cats kitchen and we are lucky to see them, indicates some piece of a healthy ecosystem. I never report but do not see the harm.
    Don't be the 13th inch. Keep single track single!

  11. #11
    schipperke momma
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    For sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by mechmann_mtb
    we saw a bunch of deer in that area as well. just up the road from cooks corner.

    i am sure there are big cats there. make sure if you ride in that area you take the appropriate precautions. i ride with a good sized knife handy and never ride alone. if you have to stop to fix a flat make sure there is someone else with you before you go stooping down and working on your bike.

    safety in numbers is key.
    Saw five deer hanging out under the oaks at Whitting two weeks ago. Given the number of deer and other animals lions eat which wander the area, it's no wonder the lions follow. I've always riden with at least one buddy, and if we get too far apart on the trail we wait for eachother. I don't have much faith in a weapon though because I don't think I would get it out fast enough. Lions are pretty stealthy. If one is stalkling you, you probably wont now it till it's too late. And since their instinct is to kill with the first bite to the neck, I don't know how you could fight them off. In my mind it's better to just look like more trouble then you're worth, i.e. large groups.
    I've defected. Viva la pavement.

  12. #12
    Hung Like a Lightswitch
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    I'm gonna laugh when you die. Get a road bike so Darwin can take care of you.

  13. #13
    giddy up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Your preaching about responsibility is a complete joke. Responsibility begins on a personal level and if some goober is not responsible enough to be aware of their surroundings anywhere, then Mr. Darwin can and will take the opportunity to glean them from the gene pool. Do you know how ridiculous using "wilderness" and "safe environment" in the same sentence makes you look? Have you ever even been to a real wilderness area? Can you even fathom the concept of wilderness? Here's a clue, the 401 in Crested Butte is not the wilderness. You're bowling, bowling me over with laughter at your contradictions. One last clue for you, the mountain lions will always be there in California because the lefties will make sure of that.

    You get a road bike too.
    I already have a road bike.
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  14. #14
    Just another Homer
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    I agree you're probably just looking for a fight, I'll still fill you in on why I say tell the rangers. Number one concern is for families with children which frequent the area a lot. Children would be high on a lions list as potential prey. And I don't believe the mountain lion has any more right to the area then any other living creature including myself . I'm more then willing to share the area with the cats,but when they start attacking humans I draw the line.

    And I do own a road bike which I ride every week, sometimes hundreds of miles at a time. I talked with an emergency doctor back in April at Western Medical Center (who rides) and he told me that road bikers out number mountain bikers around 5:1 on visits to the emergency room, so if you're thinking road biking is safer or any easier, you are mistaken.
    I may not be as good as I once was.
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  15. #15
    mechmann_mtb
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    the knife is there. i didn't say it would necessarly be easy to use it in a big cat attack!

    to be honest i can reach the knife easily (it is on my left camel back strap) and deploy it within about 1.5 seconds. having a knife that handy is something that lots of people might scoff at but it is a very usefull tool in many situations (i am a diver too and wouldn't go in the water without a knife)

    i would think that a mtn lion stalking me would notice that i am bigger and stronger than my riding partner (wife). if a cat were to attack it would probably be her (in all probability a cat wouldn't want anything to do with those crazy humans on two wheels while they are upright and pedaling, the attacks that i have heard of were when people were stooped next to the bike). if a cat got ahold of my wife i would be the crazy knife weilding/bike slinging human chasing after him.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
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    Cats vs Guns

    You probably have more to fear from God Fearin, Gun Totin, Rockin Rollin mountain bikers than you do from cats.

  17. #17
    schipperke momma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    You probably have more to fear from God Fearin, Gun Totin, Rockin Rollin mountain bikers than you do from cats.
    Let's hope not. I'm pretty sure California is not a carrying state. But then again it's not the people who follow the rules you have to worry about.
    I've defected. Viva la pavement.

  18. #18
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    Wilderness

    BTW Tread - the name of the park is Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Sometimes the rules are what need to be worried about, especially when those rules allow for a large natural predator to be shot by an authorized official with a gun because they were acting normally in their habitat.
    I can't think of any local instances where mountain lions were shot in an official capacity for acting "normally".

    Reporting any lion sighting to the Rangers and Land Managers is a routine and desired course so others can be simply notified of the recent sighting. It also gives the Ranger the opportunity to interview the person to determine if the sighting was in fact a lion or simply a mistaken identity (which is usually the case in around +/- 80% of reported sightings). In addition the Ranger will interview the person to determine if the lion was acting normally or aggressive.

    The presence of a lion is part of nature and part of being in a wilderness park, and most of the sightings are normal sightings where the lion acted as it should (with a general fear of man and simply wandered off into the bush).

    A lion that stands its ground, stalks, or moves towards a human is not normal behavior for and is a cause for concern, and should clearly be reported.

    Everyone using these areas should be aware of the risks, but in general; a lion simply acting normally is not a great imposing risk. I have a much greater risk of being injured or killed in my vehicle on the way to the parking lot, or getting injured on my bike than I do of getting attacked by a lion. The historical data for the North American continent supports this.

    Everyone should indeed report all sightings to the Rangers, but they should also consider themselves very fortunate to have witnessed a lion in its natural state. They are clearly a disappearing asset to our local wilderness areas.

    Just some thoughts,

    Thanks

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bergziege
    Saw five deer hanging out under the oaks at Whitting two weeks ago. Given the number of deer and other animals lions eat which wander the area, it's no wonder the lions follow. I've always riden with at least one buddy, and if we get too far apart on the trail we wait for eachother. I don't have much faith in a weapon though because I don't think I would get it out fast enough. Lions are pretty stealthy. If one is stalkling you, you probably wont now it till it's too late. And since their instinct is to kill with the first bite to the neck, I don't know how you could fight them off. In my mind it's better to just look like more trouble then you're worth, i.e. large groups.
    Exactly..... the Deer are back in numbers at the single track in (Borrego). They're even back to being somewhat tame towards me when I stop to watch them, only a few feet away. The deer were in huge numbers up to the attack at Whiting.

    Just don't be ignorant, these cats are always around in when you're riding.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    You get a road bike too. Did you ever stop to think about why mountain lions are afraid of humans? Normal behavior for a mountain lion is to stalk its prey, kill it and eat it. Where did you miss the fact that humans are lower on the food chain than large carniverous predators? Did your historical data factor in a time before the advent of firearms when large predators were in their NORMAL place on the food chain? Is it abnormal for tigers to eat humans in India? Get over it, you're a flyspeck and if Mother Nature wants to eradicate you, it will happen no matter how many warnings are posted for your protection. Get this, it's on most mountain bikes when you buy them: MOUNTAIN BIKING IS AN INHERENTLY DANGEROUS SPORT. Enjoy your road bike.
    Not really sure what got you so angry and condescending on this topic, especially with the simple and easy nature of the initial post; and I'm not sure what part of my post angered you so much as to warrant sarcastic comments.

    I simply stated facts that can be researched in most mammal and predator resources.

    Historical statistics from 1890 through 1990 shows only 9 fatal attacks, 44 nonfatal attacks resulting in 10 human deaths, and 48 nonfatal injuries in the US and Canada. These are extremely small odds of being attacked in contrast to the number of humans using wilderness areas in the last century.

    We are simply not a mountain lion's natural prey, and the lion's have not passed an understanding of humans and firearms down through their generations. The gist of my post was only to point out that authorities do not hunt and kill mountain lions that are acting as all of the historical research and the people & agencies who are educated on the subject indicate.

    Lions showing stalking behavior towards humans of course have to be dealt with; even if it is a sad and unfortunate reality that is brought upon them due to man's encroachment into their territories, and their loss of adequate space to hunt and function naturally.

    One thing I always find ironic on these boards is the number of mountain bikers who heroically stick up for mountain lions and nature in general, while not admitting that our very presence in the wilderness as mountain bikers is one of the factors contributing to their stress. Try to post on a mountain bike site about illegal trails and habitat fragmentation, and see what type of comments is derived. Very angry posts from many mountain bikers if you comment on illegal trails fragmenting habitats.

    Again, the simple point is that the Rangers should be notified so people can be notified; and that they are not indiscriminately killed by authorities. More lions suffer death each year from poachers and automobiles than any unfortunate, but necessary killing for an aggressive lion.

    Facts are facts, and there's no need for anger or personal attacks to other posters.

    Thanks

  22. #22
    mtbr member
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    JamR

    Don't waste your time, check Treads previoius posts and save your effort for a more worthy cause.
    See you next Sat.

    Hanna Barbarian? Pretty clever I must admit!

  23. #23
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    Don't waste your time, check Treads previoius posts and save your effort for a more worthy cause.
    See you next Sat.

    Hanna Barbarian? Pretty clever I must admit!
    Thanks....will do.

    Did not see the Hanna Barbarian comment........it is pretty clever.

    See ya Sat, and thanks for all your help and effort.

  24. #24
    Just another Homer
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    Hey JamR, do you know if these sightings have been confirmed by the rangers? I have seen a number of animals over the years in the wild,but there are a few I'd still love to see. The two I'd love to see most are bighorn and a puma. The last thing I want to do is disturb them though. Earlier this year I was riding Marshall Canyon in the late morning (around 10 am) and as I came around a corner ahead of me in the trail about 50 feet ahead was a full grown bear. Her back was to me and she was just walking slowly up the trail. I wasn't quite sure how to handle it, so I just remained quite and viewed her as she walked about another 150 feet down the trail and then walked off into the brush. I don't believe she ever knew I was there.
    I've been riding lately, sometimes in the late afternoon on the north side of the Santa Ana's and I know this is the time of day when the cougars are most active, so if the sightings have been confirmed I might change my schedule a little or include a riding partner.
    I may not be as good as I once was.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pain Freak
    Hey JamR, do you know if these sightings have been confirmed by the rangers? I have seen a number of animals over the years in the wild,but there are a few I'd still love to see. The two I'd love to see most are bighorn and a puma. The last thing I want to do is disturb them though. Earlier this year I was riding Marshall Canyon in the late morning (around 10 am) and as I came around a corner ahead of me in the trail about 50 feet ahead was a full grown bear. Her back was to me and she was just walking slowly up the trail. I wasn't quite sure how to handle it, so I just remained quite and viewed her as she walked about another 150 feet down the trail and then walked off into the brush. I don't believe she ever knew I was there.
    I've been riding lately, sometimes in the late afternoon on the north side of the Santa Ana's and I know this is the time of day when the cougars are most active, so if the sightings have been confirmed I might change my schedule a little or include a riding partner.

    I hope everyone here get's eaten by a "wild animal," so I can have all the trails to myself.

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