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  1. #1
    ali'i hua
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    puma/mountain lion/big kitty sighting

    last saturday afternoon at about 330 at whiting ranch, orange county- was cruising thru Whiting after hitting Louge back to the car and saw one- german shepard size, sandy in color, high-tailing it away from me down the trail. so I stopped instead of giving chase. figured that might not be the best idea...

    makes a person feel a little lower on the food chain.

    so, there ya go.

  2. #2
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    You should

    let the park rangers know. This is the third time I've heard of a cougar sighting at Whiting this past couple of months.
    I may not be as good as I once was.
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  3. #3
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    man how many cats live near there
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  4. #4
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    Hiked it about the Tues prior to Thanksgiving

    trip to Cal from Idaho and didn't have my bike
    me and my girlfreind hiked it. didn't see anything
    but more deer than I've ever seen at the bottom of cactus going back towards Portola
    probably a good thing.

    what is the deal with mtn lion there, so far down the mountain fromt he Santa Anas?
    Easy "prey"? (Scary)

  5. #5
    My dogs are killin me
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    If there's a lot of deer there, then there's your answer most likely.

    Hope people are smart out there after the last incident. There can't be too many of those cats left. It would be a shame to keep having to kill them off!

  6. #6
    mechmann_mtb
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    we saw a bunch of deer in that area as well. just up the road from cooks corner.

    i am sure there are big cats there. make sure if you ride in that area you take the appropriate precautions. i ride with a good sized knife handy and never ride alone. if you have to stop to fix a flat make sure there is someone else with you before you go stooping down and working on your bike.

    safety in numbers is key.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Why let the park rangers know? Why not just leave the cat be? We are intuders in their domain. I'm sure there are quite a few Pumas in Orange County, as well there should be. Do you think for one minute that a park ranger doesn't know that? If you're afraid of a little kitty, maybe you should take up road biking.
    The rangers will let the cat be. They do ask that you report mt lion sightings to them. I assume so they can post signs at the park entrances indicating a sighting so that people can make a decision on whether they want to go into the park. For example a family with young children might choose to avoid the park or to keep their children in close proximity. The County will also close the park if there is a lion that is acting abnormally.

  8. #8
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    Ranger

    In the first place, you don't have to tell the ranger at this point because he is on this forum regularly.
    Secondly - I'm with you Pain, if I was responsible for maintaining a safe environment for the public in a wilderness type park, I would want to know of every lion sighting just so I knew how prevelant they were. If TreadHead doesn't want to be responsible enough to help with that effort, maybe he should take up bowling.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Let's see, if you had a bunch of large cats traipsing through your house on bicycles, foot and horseback and they were part of your food chain and you were hungry, what would you do?

    Sanitizing the outdoors for your protection is a ridiculous notion. If there is a hungry cat out there and nobody has seen them "acting abnormally", they'll still see a human as prey if they want to. The County is full of idiots if the park is closed just because a natural predator who has lived there for years was seen.

    A road bike for you too.
    I guess your reading comprehension is poor, because I said nothing about sanitizing. Sounds like you are just looking to pick a fight over this issue.

  10. #10
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    It is mtn biking

    I have had two encounters with the big cats and I think they are the most beautiful things I have ever seen. But yes I was scared. We are the intruders and should keep that in mind. I have not seen any sharks while I am surfing but hey I am in their kitchen.

    Heads up all but it is the cats kitchen and we are lucky to see them, indicates some piece of a healthy ecosystem. I never report but do not see the harm.
    I can't wait till they put condos here. Said no one ever.

  11. #11
    schipperke momma
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    For sure...

    Quote Originally Posted by mechmann_mtb
    we saw a bunch of deer in that area as well. just up the road from cooks corner.

    i am sure there are big cats there. make sure if you ride in that area you take the appropriate precautions. i ride with a good sized knife handy and never ride alone. if you have to stop to fix a flat make sure there is someone else with you before you go stooping down and working on your bike.

    safety in numbers is key.
    Saw five deer hanging out under the oaks at Whitting two weeks ago. Given the number of deer and other animals lions eat which wander the area, it's no wonder the lions follow. I've always riden with at least one buddy, and if we get too far apart on the trail we wait for eachother. I don't have much faith in a weapon though because I don't think I would get it out fast enough. Lions are pretty stealthy. If one is stalkling you, you probably wont now it till it's too late. And since their instinct is to kill with the first bite to the neck, I don't know how you could fight them off. In my mind it's better to just look like more trouble then you're worth, i.e. large groups.
    I've defected. Viva la pavement.

  12. #12
    Hung Like a Lightswitch
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    I'm gonna laugh when you die. Get a road bike so Darwin can take care of you.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Your preaching about responsibility is a complete joke. Responsibility begins on a personal level and if some goober is not responsible enough to be aware of their surroundings anywhere, then Mr. Darwin can and will take the opportunity to glean them from the gene pool. Do you know how ridiculous using "wilderness" and "safe environment" in the same sentence makes you look? Have you ever even been to a real wilderness area? Can you even fathom the concept of wilderness? Here's a clue, the 401 in Crested Butte is not the wilderness. You're bowling, bowling me over with laughter at your contradictions. One last clue for you, the mountain lions will always be there in California because the lefties will make sure of that.

    You get a road bike too.
    I already have a road bike.
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  14. #14
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    I agree you're probably just looking for a fight, I'll still fill you in on why I say tell the rangers. Number one concern is for families with children which frequent the area a lot. Children would be high on a lions list as potential prey. And I don't believe the mountain lion has any more right to the area then any other living creature including myself . I'm more then willing to share the area with the cats,but when they start attacking humans I draw the line.

    And I do own a road bike which I ride every week, sometimes hundreds of miles at a time. I talked with an emergency doctor back in April at Western Medical Center (who rides) and he told me that road bikers out number mountain bikers around 5:1 on visits to the emergency room, so if you're thinking road biking is safer or any easier, you are mistaken.
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  15. #15
    mechmann_mtb
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    the knife is there. i didn't say it would necessarly be easy to use it in a big cat attack!

    to be honest i can reach the knife easily (it is on my left camel back strap) and deploy it within about 1.5 seconds. having a knife that handy is something that lots of people might scoff at but it is a very usefull tool in many situations (i am a diver too and wouldn't go in the water without a knife)

    i would think that a mtn lion stalking me would notice that i am bigger and stronger than my riding partner (wife). if a cat were to attack it would probably be her (in all probability a cat wouldn't want anything to do with those crazy humans on two wheels while they are upright and pedaling, the attacks that i have heard of were when people were stooped next to the bike). if a cat got ahold of my wife i would be the crazy knife weilding/bike slinging human chasing after him.

  16. #16
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    Cats vs Guns

    You probably have more to fear from God Fearin, Gun Totin, Rockin Rollin mountain bikers than you do from cats.

  17. #17
    schipperke momma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    You probably have more to fear from God Fearin, Gun Totin, Rockin Rollin mountain bikers than you do from cats.
    Let's hope not. I'm pretty sure California is not a carrying state. But then again it's not the people who follow the rules you have to worry about.
    I've defected. Viva la pavement.

  18. #18
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    Wilderness

    BTW Tread - the name of the park is Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Sometimes the rules are what need to be worried about, especially when those rules allow for a large natural predator to be shot by an authorized official with a gun because they were acting normally in their habitat.
    I can't think of any local instances where mountain lions were shot in an official capacity for acting "normally".

    Reporting any lion sighting to the Rangers and Land Managers is a routine and desired course so others can be simply notified of the recent sighting. It also gives the Ranger the opportunity to interview the person to determine if the sighting was in fact a lion or simply a mistaken identity (which is usually the case in around +/- 80% of reported sightings). In addition the Ranger will interview the person to determine if the lion was acting normally or aggressive.

    The presence of a lion is part of nature and part of being in a wilderness park, and most of the sightings are normal sightings where the lion acted as it should (with a general fear of man and simply wandered off into the bush).

    A lion that stands its ground, stalks, or moves towards a human is not normal behavior for and is a cause for concern, and should clearly be reported.

    Everyone using these areas should be aware of the risks, but in general; a lion simply acting normally is not a great imposing risk. I have a much greater risk of being injured or killed in my vehicle on the way to the parking lot, or getting injured on my bike than I do of getting attacked by a lion. The historical data for the North American continent supports this.

    Everyone should indeed report all sightings to the Rangers, but they should also consider themselves very fortunate to have witnessed a lion in its natural state. They are clearly a disappearing asset to our local wilderness areas.

    Just some thoughts,

    Thanks

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bergziege
    Saw five deer hanging out under the oaks at Whitting two weeks ago. Given the number of deer and other animals lions eat which wander the area, it's no wonder the lions follow. I've always riden with at least one buddy, and if we get too far apart on the trail we wait for eachother. I don't have much faith in a weapon though because I don't think I would get it out fast enough. Lions are pretty stealthy. If one is stalkling you, you probably wont now it till it's too late. And since their instinct is to kill with the first bite to the neck, I don't know how you could fight them off. In my mind it's better to just look like more trouble then you're worth, i.e. large groups.
    Exactly..... the Deer are back in numbers at the single track in (Borrego). They're even back to being somewhat tame towards me when I stop to watch them, only a few feet away. The deer were in huge numbers up to the attack at Whiting.

    Just don't be ignorant, these cats are always around in when you're riding.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    You get a road bike too. Did you ever stop to think about why mountain lions are afraid of humans? Normal behavior for a mountain lion is to stalk its prey, kill it and eat it. Where did you miss the fact that humans are lower on the food chain than large carniverous predators? Did your historical data factor in a time before the advent of firearms when large predators were in their NORMAL place on the food chain? Is it abnormal for tigers to eat humans in India? Get over it, you're a flyspeck and if Mother Nature wants to eradicate you, it will happen no matter how many warnings are posted for your protection. Get this, it's on most mountain bikes when you buy them: MOUNTAIN BIKING IS AN INHERENTLY DANGEROUS SPORT. Enjoy your road bike.
    Not really sure what got you so angry and condescending on this topic, especially with the simple and easy nature of the initial post; and I'm not sure what part of my post angered you so much as to warrant sarcastic comments.

    I simply stated facts that can be researched in most mammal and predator resources.

    Historical statistics from 1890 through 1990 shows only 9 fatal attacks, 44 nonfatal attacks resulting in 10 human deaths, and 48 nonfatal injuries in the US and Canada. These are extremely small odds of being attacked in contrast to the number of humans using wilderness areas in the last century.

    We are simply not a mountain lion's natural prey, and the lion's have not passed an understanding of humans and firearms down through their generations. The gist of my post was only to point out that authorities do not hunt and kill mountain lions that are acting as all of the historical research and the people & agencies who are educated on the subject indicate.

    Lions showing stalking behavior towards humans of course have to be dealt with; even if it is a sad and unfortunate reality that is brought upon them due to man's encroachment into their territories, and their loss of adequate space to hunt and function naturally.

    One thing I always find ironic on these boards is the number of mountain bikers who heroically stick up for mountain lions and nature in general, while not admitting that our very presence in the wilderness as mountain bikers is one of the factors contributing to their stress. Try to post on a mountain bike site about illegal trails and habitat fragmentation, and see what type of comments is derived. Very angry posts from many mountain bikers if you comment on illegal trails fragmenting habitats.

    Again, the simple point is that the Rangers should be notified so people can be notified; and that they are not indiscriminately killed by authorities. More lions suffer death each year from poachers and automobiles than any unfortunate, but necessary killing for an aggressive lion.

    Facts are facts, and there's no need for anger or personal attacks to other posters.

    Thanks

  22. #22
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    JamR

    Don't waste your time, check Treads previoius posts and save your effort for a more worthy cause.
    See you next Sat.

    Hanna Barbarian? Pretty clever I must admit!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    Don't waste your time, check Treads previoius posts and save your effort for a more worthy cause.
    See you next Sat.

    Hanna Barbarian? Pretty clever I must admit!
    Thanks....will do.

    Did not see the Hanna Barbarian comment........it is pretty clever.

    See ya Sat, and thanks for all your help and effort.

  24. #24
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    Hey JamR, do you know if these sightings have been confirmed by the rangers? I have seen a number of animals over the years in the wild,but there are a few I'd still love to see. The two I'd love to see most are bighorn and a puma. The last thing I want to do is disturb them though. Earlier this year I was riding Marshall Canyon in the late morning (around 10 am) and as I came around a corner ahead of me in the trail about 50 feet ahead was a full grown bear. Her back was to me and she was just walking slowly up the trail. I wasn't quite sure how to handle it, so I just remained quite and viewed her as she walked about another 150 feet down the trail and then walked off into the brush. I don't believe she ever knew I was there.
    I've been riding lately, sometimes in the late afternoon on the north side of the Santa Ana's and I know this is the time of day when the cougars are most active, so if the sightings have been confirmed I might change my schedule a little or include a riding partner.
    I may not be as good as I once was.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pain Freak
    Hey JamR, do you know if these sightings have been confirmed by the rangers? I have seen a number of animals over the years in the wild,but there are a few I'd still love to see. The two I'd love to see most are bighorn and a puma. The last thing I want to do is disturb them though. Earlier this year I was riding Marshall Canyon in the late morning (around 10 am) and as I came around a corner ahead of me in the trail about 50 feet ahead was a full grown bear. Her back was to me and she was just walking slowly up the trail. I wasn't quite sure how to handle it, so I just remained quite and viewed her as she walked about another 150 feet down the trail and then walked off into the brush. I don't believe she ever knew I was there.
    I've been riding lately, sometimes in the late afternoon on the north side of the Santa Ana's and I know this is the time of day when the cougars are most active, so if the sightings have been confirmed I might change my schedule a little or include a riding partner.

    I hope everyone here get's eaten by a "wild animal," so I can have all the trails to myself.

  26. #26
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    I hear you about not sanitizing the outdoors

    Quote Originally Posted by treadheadted
    Let's see, if you had a bunch of large cats traipsing through your house on bicycles, foot and horseback and they were part of your food chain and you were hungry, what would you do?

    Sanitizing the outdoors for your protection is a ridiculous notion. If there is a hungry cat out there and nobody has seen them "acting abnormally", they'll still see a human as prey if they want to. The County is full of idiots if the park is closed just because a natural predator who has lived there for years was seen.

    A road bike for you too.
    but the damage is done, Whiting Ranch is but a parkway of wilderness, might not be a bad idea to pull a Mutual of Omaha and dart the especially big ones and relocate them to a space big enough for such a large predator.
    Mountain lions and coyotes are elusive animals very rarely seen unless they are in an unaturally small (by human encroachment) area.

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    You get a road bike too. Did you ever stop to think about why mountain lions are afraid of humans? Normal behavior for a mountain lion is to stalk its prey, kill it and eat it. Where did you miss the fact that humans are lower on the food chain than large carniverous predators? Did your historical data factor in a time before the advent of firearms when large predators were in their NORMAL place on the food chain?
    First of all, your last statement is redundant: humans ARE carnivorous (or more accurately, omnivorous) predators. Second of all, humans are higher on the food chain, since there are more more instances of humans successfully hunting mountain lions than vice-versa. Third, because of this the behavior of mountain lions and other predators has been consistent for thousands of years. Mountain lions have been wary of humans since humans are a much more fearsome competitor than they are. Humans have been more dangerous than mountain lions because like other social animals (e.g. wolves) we hunt in packs and we hunt more intelligently.

    And to be fair about the others posting here, you really do seem to be looking for a fight. The most reasonable posts are simply advocating the idea of sharing information, which for some reason you seem to be against. The idea is that rangers would be able to do their job (and better protect wildlife) if they are being reported to about the presence of mountain lions and their behavior. They are also legally liable for what happens within the parks we enjoy.

    MOUNTAIN BIKING IS AN INHERENTLY DANGEROUS SPORT. Enjoy your road bike.
    No it's not. It's only dangerous to the humans that need to be weeded out of the gene pool.

  28. #28
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    Report Mt Lion sightings?

    Yes, please do report mountain lion sightings to the ranger's office.

    For Limestone & Whiting Ranch Wilderness Parks call: 949-923-2245.

    If you hear the recording:

    Leave the date, time and location of sighting.

    Leave your name and contact phone # so we can collect additional details.

    Also, if you wish to, you are welcome to call in with other wildlife sightings as well.

    We monitor the health of the parks natural habitat by the variety of wildlife seen by ourselves and by observant members of the public.

    Thank you for your assistance.


    Best wishes to all during the holidays!

  29. #29
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    X-Post from Id and thanks for the clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger Tom
    Yes, please do report mountain lion sightings to the ranger's office.

    For Limestone & Whiting Ranch Wilderness Parks call: 949-923-2245.

    If you hear the recording:

    Leave the date, time and location of sighting.

    Leave your name and contact phone # so we can collect additional details.

    Also, if you wish to, you are welcome to call in with other wildlife sightings as well.

    We monitor the health of the parks natural habitat by the variety of wildlife seen by ourselves and by observant members of the public.

    Thank you for your assistance.


    Best wishes to all during the holidays!
    Seems like despite all the debate on here, in the end it IS productive to call in the information, for reasons you indicated.

    This is not a "report" but question:
    One year ago, while around Thanksgiving, my GF thought she saw big cat prints in the LCWP, off a certain trail named after a restaurant.....

    Have you ever heard of big cats in this area? I have not. I also used to ride El Morro every Tuesday night, never saw a big cat, although plenty of coyote of course....

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrdr98
    This is not a "report" but question:
    One year ago, while around Thanksgiving, my GF thought she saw big cat prints in the LCWP, off a certain trail named after a restaurant.....

    Have you ever heard of big cats in this area? I have not. I also used to ride El Morro every Tuesday night, never saw a big cat, although plenty of coyote of course....
    As an old Orange county boy, I can tell you yes, they are out there. Even with the sprawling suburbs, a lion could easily put together the areas you mention with Cleveland National forest. They roam quite a bit, and are secretive by nature.

    From what I've read, lion prints never show claw marks, even in the dust. They've got retractable claws, just like a house cat. I've seen a lot of bob-cat tracks; they are a little rounder than a dog or coyote track, and again, no claw marks. I've never seen a lion, but have come across their tracks in the Santa Cruz mountains. I some some in the dust of a fire road two summers ago. They were very unmistakeable, more oval than round, and as wide as a man's palm print. Nothing else wlking around out there with feet that size and shape!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrdr98
    Seems like despite all the debate on here, in the end it IS productive to call in the information, for reasons you indicated.

    This is not a "report" but question:
    One year ago, while around Thanksgiving, my GF thought she saw big cat prints in the LCWP, off a certain trail named after a restaurant.....

    Have you ever heard of big cats in this area? I have not. I also used to ride El Morro every Tuesday night, never saw a big cat, although plenty of coyote of course....
    There have been recent sightings in El Moro as well as a deer kill which I believe was confirmed by DF&G as a mountain lion kill. As you are probably aware, El Moro is adjacent to LCWP.

  32. #32
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    ... and if we just ... what happened to littleheadtread?

    Musta been one of those big ol kitty's done got him. Shucks, I was gonna invite him down for a night ride with me on the local trails in this here neck of the woods. I think Chopper and JamR can attest to the fact that Sprocketville is primo puma territory, and solo jaunts (which I'm prone to) 'round here can be a little un-nerving for even arrogant assjacks like ol teddyboy. i guess that's why nobody ever comes back after a thursday night; damn, jamR and Chopper won't even come out!

    But just for my 2 cents: about 5 years ago, I got stalked while heading down a local trail with very little light. First, I thought it was all in my head: the funny noises behind me, the funny feeling down my spine. It wasn't until I fell and heard some serious noise in the brush about 10 feet behind me that the skidmarks began appearing in my shorts. But I still thought it was all my imagination. When I got down to the end of the trail, I jus about kissed the first person I saw, and she remarked on my visibly shaken state. Well, I got to my destination, and very shortly thereafter, the rest of the group showed up, having come down the same trail. With in 5 minutes, the phone rang and it was the above mentioned gal saying we all had to come back up 'cause her dog had an enormous cat in a tree in her front yard. The skidmarks solidified as I realized it was NOT my imagination, and the rest of the group probably sent said kitty into the open with their loud rowdy riding style (they are Sprocketheads after all). We all jumped into a Suburban and drove the 100 feet up the road to see the kitty and throw rocks and make noise, just to make sure it knew where NOT to return to.

    Which brings me to my point: if you see a cat, MAKE NOISE, THROW ROCKS AT IT, make it afraid of you, and the rest of the human race. Of course, chasing it might be a bad idea, so let it run back to it's original home. And then report it so that other folks know to be on the look out. And if you have a feeling you're being followed, don't discount it!
    And BTW littleheadted, even Mark Reynold's ( the most recent cat fatality in OC) family DID NOT SUE. Neither did Anne (the other victim in the attack at whiting); she just goes on riding and exuding her great attitude (and looking as hot as ever, i might add) even in Whiting!
    And yeah, I carry I blade now. It'll come in handy for slicing a fresh apple to enjoy with a good trailside Islay. Do you think cougars like singlemalt?
    Y'all ride happy now, ya hear ?

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